Designing Women S3 E6 - A Virtual Smorgasbord of Women
Updated: Apr 9
If you like a filler episode, you’ll love this one! It’s the “will they, won’t they” we never needed from Charlene and Bill after Charlene takes questionable love advice from Suzanne. Everyone else is singularly focused on the construction workers, or “hard hats”, that keep harassing everyone with terrible pickup lines. There’s also a daytime costume gala squeezed in there somewhere.
Stick around for this week’s “Extra Sugar”, where we’re talking about the time-tested (and time-detested?) tradition of dating.
More on Operation Match, the original technology-driven matchmaking service, from dating website, eHarmony, and the Crimson (Harvard’s student newspaper)
Come on, let’s get into it!
Or listen on Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Podcasts.
Before we get into this week's episode, we have some exciting news right after our season three, episode one aired and we announced our brand new Patreon some amazing sweet tea breezed right on over to our Patreon page and signed up.
We have four, count them four amazing Patreon friends.
We're so excited to welcome to Lisa Nancy Michael and Tammy to the Noel Tier.
We are so honored by your contributions.
In addition to this, shout out, these amazing people have also been getting early access to each week's episode and have started weighing in with their suggestions for additional ways we can grow the show.
So if you'd like to join them, please visit the support us section of our website.
And I have written a song.
Ya, because I'm a songwriter, I'm not so just bear with me and know that I do have an air ukulele here.
Yes, because you're a Patreon, a Patreon.
We want to tell you that you got going on because you're a Patreon.
We call you Nancy and hello, Tammy.
Thank you Trisa and don't forget Michael.
That was excellent, Salina.
And hello everyone and welcome to sweet tea and TV.
I always want to say something else.
I was just about to go and say a podcast about, I always, that's what I think I always want to do.
And then I'm like, well, that's not really what we do.
So I just stop and then say something awkward instead and here we are.
And you know what I think that is, yeah, we didn't even plan that.
We didn't even plan that.
Well, so we had a little break from the questions, but we're gonna go back to the question.
I think that we're out of James Lipton ones, which is what we have been doing.
Yeah, he didn't have a lot either that or I've messed something up.
One of the two.
But what we're gonna do today is so he actually got the questions that he asked inside the actors studio that was actually based on Bernard pivot.
He's a French talk show host.
Talk show host.
At least I thought you were gonna say a French poet from the 16th century.
No, it's TV.
So it's gotta be kind of easy, right?
I don't know.
Um But so he based his questions on questions, I guess this guy asked on his TV show and so we're gonna, we're gonna pivot I thought to the pivot um and see what he has to say.
Question for you today then would be, who would you like to see on a new bank note?
Oh, I would have to say Barack Obama.
Wanna say anything else.
Uh, he was just a momentous president for a lot of reasons.
Completely unrelated to politics.
Um, and he is diverse, uh, and represents a diverse, uh, part of the nation that's not been represented in a good way on bank notes.
Either that or me?
Is it fair enough?
What about you trope and introspection?
Um, so I will tell you my two thoughts.
My first thought was what's a bank note?
You know, because I'm so young, I just don't understand physical cash on it but like it was just a blip.
It was like, oh, a big, no.
Oh, big note.
So that's my first thought.
My second thought was, uh the notorious R B G.
So got the shirt over here.
It says it, um, for those who are not in the know, which I can't imagine but Ruth Bader Ginsburg just because it's like, I don't know, I feel like she's almost more known these days as R B G.
Um, but anyways, um, you know, she just did a lot for women.
Um, and I just think she, uh, is a really important historical figure, um, very modern, you know.
Um, but the other thing, this was my very third thought, which is, uh does this matter to be on a bank note.
I was just wondering if they would ever issue a new bank note or like, they will, 100% the Treasury will reissue, they'll change the dollar bill or something at some point.
Yeah, I think.
Well, we almost got, oh, yeah.
What happened with that?
Well, we had to switch in administrations and then it was decided that it wasn't important anymore.
Uh, but just to this point of like, you know, cash isn't as prevalent these days.
So while it is an honor, I don't know, it's the same level of honor anymore because so many people I feel like, don't even like, physically see cash anymore.
I'm on a level with you.
If someone wanted to put me on the penny, I would feel massively honored.
Well, Lincoln's there right now.
So, yeah, I would feel, I mean, any do any, there's only so many denominations, I think there's some we haven't seen, but for the most part, there's only so many.
Is there any that shocks you That they're on 1?
I don't even know who's on all the denominations.
To be honest.
Well, I've got two for you because I, all right, Eisenhower.
And he on the dime, I just, I don't know.
I'm not saying he didn't do some great things.
It's just out of all the presidents.
That one surprises me for some reason, even though he's a great president, he was probably president when it was introduced, Eisenhower's like he introduced like the um, like the highways and the byways and the my ways, the Frank Sinatras, the rat pack, I could take this all the way.
We haven't done an extra sugar on Eisenhower yet.
So I don't know what Howard did.
Let's not ruin it for the people.
So I, I do think he did, I do think there could be argued.
He did some really important things for the country, but for whatever reason, that one just stands out to me and then the one that just really chaps my arse is Andrew Jackson.
Oh, uh, because you know, he's just a terrible person that did terrible things.
Um, in case you wanted to just a little insight into how Salina feels about the presidents that we've had at this point.
I don't feel like I have a strong opinion on Jackson.
So, well, it's a little thing called the Cherokee Indians and smallpox blankets.
Look it up people.
Um, an argument could be made about many of the early presidents who are all on coinage.
We got problems people, but we also have solutions and today's solution to help Nikki help with the transition.
Oh, we're going to the episode now.
Sorry, I thought you had another question.
No, I'm just speaking of highways and byways, this episode is called Hard Hats and Lovers.
Well, look at that, the people who constructed the highways would have been wearing hard hats.
I see what you're saying.
Anyhow, uh, when Charlene talks her boyfriend into dating around the ladies of Sugar Bakers, come up with a solution to end the verbal harassment they've been receiving from a bunch of construction workers.
Air date, December 19, My asterisk to this air date is, ah, the holidays.
What a special time for a sexual harassment episode.
I love it.
Let me tell you what I'm gonna hate.
Oh, listening back to that laugh right there.
So, just so, you know, that was a genuine laugh.
And I'm really sorry for everyone listening because my laugh is like the, like the devil's anus.
I, I don't like that.
Uh, it was music to my ears.
Sounds like little tinkles.
Oh, that's nice.
What are we calling this episode?
Um, a virtual SMG board of women?
I wanted to give you credit for that one.
You just keep pulling all the good titles.
If you will written by L BT, directed by David Trainor.
General reactions slash stray observations to begin with.
What you got?
I felt very confident about the strength of season three until this episode.
I, I'm just gonna love it with you.
I thought it was pretty weak, ah, weak.
Especially coming off of Mary Jo's almost boob job episode.
It just felt really filler to me.
I have zero empathy for Charlene.
On this one as you were saying that thinking context matters and I always forget that coming off a boob job almost like a, like almost like a feminist episode.
You know, like there's nothing wrong with getting a boob job.
It's just not for me like that felt so strong.
And then Charlene comes into this one.
It's almost like a pseudo feminist approach.
Like I can be cool.
I can be with it.
You go date other women.
She just really walked herself into this whole episode just with nonsense.
Well, she may have taken some bad advice.
Well, sure, but that was a choice she made.
I know it's true.
Could you could you, could you imagine putting all your insecurities aside and telling your significant other, like suspend belief that you and Casey are married right now.
He's your boyfriend.
Could you put that to the side and say like, go date someone else?
I'm gonna tell you that this sounds like something stupid I would have done but like In my early 20s.
So this is what I'm saying, Charlene is in her late 20s, early 30s.
Bill's a little late for this decision.
I feel like Bill is a full grown man.
He's a full grown man who could have just told her.
No, it's just a really weird.
I appreciated the plot device to help us get to see how Bill feels about Charlene, blah, blah, blah.
But it just felt like a really weird way to get there.
I had some problems with Bill in this episode but we'll get there.
My other general reaction.
Oh, look at you all tight lipped over there.
Can we discuss Julia and Mary Jo's master plan to stop the harassment by the hard hats?
Also a stupid plan.
No, there was just, we're just gonna talk To him.
No one had any sense of this.
We just need a good talking to you.
Yeah, this whole, but you know, this whole coffee doughnuts and did this work for you or Anthony's our sacrificial lamb over and over and over again.
No, the idea that that's the way they're gonna put sexual harassment to rest.
So it just, ok.
So for me, it didn't make any sense.
It didn't feel true to the characters even, especially Julia.
I think she would have taken them on herself.
Um And I thought it was weird that they trotted out Anthony to make their points like that feels to your point about.
We just came off what could be argued as a feminist episode that this feels uh disempowering.
That's a good point was also super awkward and unfair to him.
So like there's no winners, you know, um if not killing the plot altogether, I wonder if it could have been peppered in a little differently.
So, in between the um Charlene plot line show the women getting harassed at different points throughout the episode.
Ok, then, and have them all get riled up talking about it.
Like when they're coming into the office, one by one realize maybe that it's all happening to all of them, then band together, go outside and the women can call them and then we could get a reaction shot of the men thrown off or scared by quote unquote female aggression and then like cut away.
But you'd have to show the outside of Sugar Bakers, which is, we're never gonna do that.
We had to draw them inside to lure them in.
But this, we're, we're suspending all reality.
They're all budget problems, all of that and saying like, I think it, like, especially for that time period, Like to see women in the 80s cat calling construction workers turning that device on its head.
Then I think that would have been funny.
I think we do eventually see that in some sitcoms but not this early.
It's almost like she toed up to the line of talking about this very difficult issue and this like, pervasive, I guess issue.
I've actually never been cat called, which is another thing that you could put it under.
My never been a bridesmaid thing like says more about me than everybody else, but I've never actually been cat called.
I don't see it happen very often.
It's a lot more leery sort of stuff these days.
Um But I guess it happened a lot in the eighties.
It seems like a real problem.
Um, my favorite sitcom of modern times is, um, King of Queens, which, you know, there was an episode where Carrie was feeling really bad about herself.
She was turning 30.
Maybe even she's feeling bad about herself.
So, his way of fixing it for her was to go get the construction workers to cat call her because they were being so respectful and not cat calling her.
So things change, times change.
Yeah, things do change.
And I, I was having a lot of feelings about this one because ok, I just wanna say that probably the reason that you haven't been cat called.
I'm just gonna continue to be, uh, let me be your Julia Sugar Baker.
Let me be your voice of reason.
Ok, see, um, I have experienced cat calling and it's not because I'm special because I'm not, but I used to walk, I used to walk home every night and every day from work in downtown Atlanta.
There's a lot of opportunity when you're on foot a lot.
Yeah, that's overwhelming.
It scares me.
So like there's a lot of, let me tell you people shout weird things, weird things, Nikki, you're not missing out on much.
No, but I was thinking to your point of like, ok, because you're like, I haven't been cat called but I'm thinking this was a problem in the eighties.
Well, I'm here to tell you Nikki, this was a problem much past the eighties.
I don't know about construction workers.
I mean, I know that trope but just in general, I think men feeling they can say whatever to whomever is always a problem.
And I mean, for me, I was thinking like, this really hasn't happened in a long time.
And then I was like, oh, I just turned 37 then I was like, oh, and then my voice kept getting higher in my head and I was like, I'm gonna take a nap.
So I don't know.
I have no there.
So the story line, ok, wasn't great.
But I did like how like the construction of the episode.
So we had the, these two dual plot lines, but they involved the entire cast in one way or another.
And then almost in my opinion, seamlessly brought them back together at the end.
So you got a chance to see all the characters.
One of my complaints is always, we don't see enough Anthony.
We got Anthony folded into this episode.
Everybody comes together in the end.
Thank you for bringing in that positive point because we do often sit here and say more Anthony, more Anthony.
Then we get more Anthony and I'm like, your plot device doesn't make sense so good.
Yeah, he was there.
It, yes, good job I think.
Um, I, I'm, I'm out of general reactions but I do have some stray observation too.
Well, imagine what sort of reaction.
Mary Jo would have gotten from the construction workers if she'd had the surgery in the last episode.
I think that she would have gotten reaction no matter what because she has a pulse.
But imagine the reaction if she had been, she would have gotten a Suzanne reaction.
You Suzanne reaction in her head?
Um, where are we on the old cooking steaks in the fireplace situation during Bill and Charlene State?
Is that what they were doing?
That's what she said.
I've always loved a steak in the fireplace.
How did I miss that?
Grease and fire inside the house doesn't sound like a good idea.
Oh my gosh.
How did I miss that?
You weren't watching the script for cut lines?
Uh Those, those are my two strays.
They felt like the most pressing issues.
I think that's a very depressing issue.
Um I'm like, I have to go take a walk so we get a reference to a new ex-husband of Suzanne's J Benton stonecipher.
Yeah, that was the whole name.
I also want to say that L BT must really love that last name.
I have heard that a number of times.
I think this might be the third time.
Uh I, we do not believe the Country Club Gallow is up to Suzanne's expectations.
It looked not great, looked like the prom from season two or the dance that teacher did.
It was uh bad.
Will someone please give L BT a little bit more money in the budget?
Let's talk about what we like.
I just alluded to this one.
Suzanne's paraphrasing of how the men yelled at her in Suzanne's world.
It's all applause and hey, gorgeous.
Hey, best looking woman left on earth.
But in reality it's yo, ho hot stuff.
I just like that.
I like the world she lives in.
I want to live there with her.
It's much better than in my world where things are like, not great.
But then I made them decidedly crawl back under the bridge.
But really he's saying yo whole hot stuff, Anthony's manic giggles just continue to get me when the construction workers are, um, I think when they arrived, but he also did it a little bit when they were like, you're not gonna do that.
Like nervous laugh.
And then the construction workers arrive?
And he's like, it's just another one of those examples.
Like we were just talking about with Mary Jo in the last episode where we get this little quirk of the character and then we just continue to revisit it.
So you feel like you're getting to know this person?
So like, I know how Anthony tends to react to these situations.
He feels like a friend in a way, which is sad.
Yeah, I'm like mom, mom so well, I, I liked his imitation of cat calling.
I thought that was pretty Good.
What's my last 1?
Oh, I'm sorry.
No, that's hilarious.
I wish I could.
Like, I can't.
I wrote down what he says.
Um, do you remember how he says it?
I think he goes who?
Oh, baby, baby.
And then goes into that manic laughter and that thing I just did guys was a growl.
I'm not very maybe but like, not so I heard it, it sound good.
Ok, so that was number one for me and my second, like, uh was while the construction worker stuff on the whole didn't really work for me.
I did think it was a pretty good plot twist and idea that they brought in the wives, mothers and girlfriends to get onto them for their behavior.
I'm going out on a limb to guess that this has been L BT solution to this problem.
Like all along.
Like I can see her, I'm starting to like, envision her and like certain situations like I can see this coming up in a topic of conversation with people and her being like, well, you know what they need to do, just bring in the wives and the mothers, the sisters, women they can identify with and then she put it in episode.
So that was my other like, things we didn't like, uh-huh, that whole Charlene challenge to Bill.
I'm not dumb.
It's just dumb.
It was, it wasn't, it wasn't the most fully fleshed out idea.
And I think, like, I think a lot of things, a lot of bad ideas start with good intentions, right?
They say that's something like that.
Well, I mean, what, so was there anything else, like, just besides you thinking it was dumb?
That I just, I just thought it was dumb.
I just thought it was dumb.
I, I would like to hear your thoughts on Bill because I'm holding him harmless for the most part because I feel like he was put in a crappy situation except to say he's an adult and he could have just said no, but I would love to hear what you have to say about that.
I feel like I feel like he took a turn in this episode.
I generally liked him and I still like him.
I just, and by the way again, this always feels a hair silly because we're talking about people who aren't real.
And honestly, I guess I don't like L BT s perception of this character, what she's kind of building into his character.
Um because this passive aggression, aggressive thing he does to Charlene's dating life prior to their relationship was just a no go for me.
So I wrote down some of this interaction.
Um OK, this is him talking, you know, I don't much care for the way you throw around that word dated.
But as long as we're on that subject.
Just exactly how many people have we dated?
Uh, this is Charlene well enough to know that I wouldn't be wondering later on what I missed out on.
I wouldn't mind you wondering a little bit.
What's that supposed to mean?
It means I'm not especially thrilled with the notion that you can find contentment with me now that you've systematically eliminated the entire seventh fleet.
So, on the one hand, I see how that it's a well written dialogue between two people and I do get that.
So I don't want to take that away.
It's even, I, I even see the humor in that.
I'm not like a dish towel.
But what strikes me in this though is that it's just this whole thing again where we're doing that vintage misogyny and it just bums me out like she's saying she's dated and he's bringing into this thing that's kind of like it's like low key slut shaming.
Um Also we kind of know that Charlene from other things that she said she hasn't really, it doesn't sound to me.
First of all, it doesn't matter.
I don't care if she did do the seventh fleet that matters to me.
Not, but she's already kind of built out this thing that she doesn't really sleep with a lot of people.
It's just not what she does.
And so for him to take and twist this and make it sound like that, I thought was really unfair when you point things out like this.
Sometimes I realize maybe how desensitized I am to some of this because that was like, I have heard so much worse slut shaming on TV shows.
Like I was honestly, I laughed a little bit throughout that section.
I thought the dialogue was written really well.
Um, and honestly, like, it didn't even hit me as, like over overly slut.
I've just heard so much worse on much more modern TV shows.
Well, and I think that, I think that absolutely, like how much we hear it.
That's not a hit on you.
That's not a hit on how much you've had to hear because you know what, it is really rude to insinuate that someone has screwed their way through an entire fleet.
That's a lot of people, you know, especially if you mean it, like, not in an applauding way, you know, it's not like he's like good job, you know, it's rude.
So I do think this discussion of how many partners don't have it, it, it feels safer not to, it really does.
It really does feel safer not to.
But I think it's something a lot of couples talk about.
We All know the rules of three men are gonna divide and men are gonna multiply so move on.
Let's just leave it at that.
Yeah, like, you know what?
We shouldn't have to.
But like, yeah, I just agree in general, for me it's just probably that thing that like, does it really matter.
Do we want to even bring that old baggage into this new thing that we're trying to build together anyways?
So, what else didn't you like?
Because in getting the sense there's a lot actually, I, that this is, I got just a couple more things.
So you said you liked the way they brought everything together at the end and you smirked and kind of roll your eyes.
So, I do agree.
Agree to disagree.
It's like they brought everyone back together.
I, I like the fact that they're giving everyone something to do.
But so Charlene and Suzanne come into Sugar Bakers in their costume while the construction workers and their mom's wives and girlfriends were there.
So we're just gonna suspend a lot of reality for that to come together.
It's still daylight outside.
What Gala would bring them back during daylight?
Then it wouldn't be a gala.
I don't know.
Is there a requirement that a Gala has to happen at night in my head?
They're only at night.
Uh, I feel, but this is definitely a costume party in the middle of the day unless it's Halloween.
Uh, even still, but it wasn't it.
So the, yeah, so I just stupid, even if it was early, let's say that like they just left early because it sucked and it was horrible and whatever and that summer time in the show.
But Bill then doesn't have time to dance twice with multiple women, which is a complaint of Charlene's there that she's had to watch him dance with woman after you need time to dance with woman after woman after woman multiple times.
So I didn't like that.
And then, so there's that, there's that right there.
And then the last thing for me is the way they wrote and played the construction workers was like pretty over the top.
Um Fat Chicks t-shirt.
Yeah, mama, you fine.
You got to be mine because I love your visible panty line.
In that King of Queens episode?
Incidentally, they're like, so you want us to call your wife?
And he's like, yeah, I want you to and he goes, so you want us to say things like I can't remember what he says.
Is that a mirror in your pocket or are you just, I see myself in them or whatever?
And he pulls out some lines like that.
So I really do think when you become a construction worker and they give you your hat, they give you a joke book.
Just real winners because he really just pulls them right out.
Wouldn't it be funny if they'd use the same poem?
Yeah, that would be funny.
So, but they said Visible Panty line.
I was like, what I'm like?
Nobody likes a panty line.
Maybe I am a pearl clutch these things are happening.
Like, how did they say that?
Just then what?
I mean, the other thing is other over the top actions, they're like over like burping when they come into Sugar Bakers, they're like weirdly aggressive.
You mentioned the no fat chicks t-shirt.
They're literally, they're literally hooting and hollering.
So I'm just gonna say this also feels really unfair to construction workers.
It's flipping rude construction shaming and haven't we all had enough of that?
So I'm not saying the stereo, this stereotype doesn't exist.
I'm just asking what are we doing here?
Which is basically, I think my sum up for the episode.
L BT had a bad run in with a construction worker one time.
I guess so.
And on that note, are you ready to rate the sucker?
What you got?
My rating scale is, that's my invitation to me.
It's pretty good.
I give it a three out of five and I want you to know I scored it down while we were talking.
This was a garbage episode.
I was just in a good mood from the last two.
You know what construction workers?
We're never getting L V T on here.
Just We love you.
Just don't listen to this episode.
Listen to the extra sugar from season two.
I honestly, I feel I feel bad for anyone who had to write 22 episodes and truly like too much we've said before.
And I do not shy away from saying this.
L BT could tell us to go just like fly a kite.
But can you come on the show and tell us?
Open up an Instagram handle because I think we would.
We've said multiple times.
We don't know what we're talking about here.
We're just talking, we're just riffing.
We're just, what are we here for?
We're not experts.
We know we know nothing.
Listen to our show, pay us, give us some cash.
I gave it two out of five visible panty lines.
I feel like that should just go ahead and be a zero because I'm with you.
Nobody likes visible panty line.
Nobody likes that.
That's not sexy.
Anyways, I've spoken at length about why this one didn't work.
So I won't rehash all of that again.
Two out of five.
But let's talk about who buttered our biscuits who won this episode.
This is a tough, I'm not sure there are truly any winners in this one, but I will say um Bill and Charlene, like I wasn't cheering for the storyline at all, but I'm glad their fairy tale seems to be moving forward.
Yeah, I think Bill won the episode because like, yeah, Charlene asked for a weird thing but he got some dances out of it and Charlene, Charlene seems to love him even more now.
So not too shabby.
How about lumps in your gravy, construction workers, wives and loved females.
Imagine finding out how terrible the man you love has been to other women.
Wow, that sucks.
Yeah, that would be bad.
That would be bad.
Well, mine was Charlene's date to the Gala gala.
His date blows him off all night.
Then she leaves with another man.
Suzanne was mean to him.
It's just not Randy's night.
I thought it was so funny when he said, but when we dance that puts my head right at your chest level.
And you said you don't like that?
She said, just turn your head.
How about some 80s things?
I don't know if this is fair to put here, but I did so.
OK, fire me.
Uh, another reference to cosmo.
I think this is another one.
We just had one in the last episode.
It feels 80s.
I mean, except for cosmo.
Come on the show.
Well, yeah, I mean, no, I mean, cosmo is definitely a thing like flipping through got it, got it.
Uh, picking up the phone and calling Mike Tyson for tips on relationships.
Uh, I had to look this one up.
I obviously know who Mike Tyson is.
But like, again, context being important, I didn't really understand.
I thought it was a boxer joke when I looked it up.
Actually, at the time of writing this episode, Mike and his first wife, actress Robin Givens were having substantial marital issues, including allegations of domestic assault, which adds a little pepper to this joke.
It felt like a weird joke kind of when you know that I think in today's world that joke would not have flown.
Yes, we're not making any Johnny Depp.
Uh, Amber heard jokes on national TV.
Now are other people tiktoker?
Yes, but not like, uh, not, not a show runner.
That show is not on anymore is us?
That's not relevant for that show.
I don't know any comedies.
Young Sheldon, definitely not a young Sheldon joke because it's in the nineties or eighties.
It's gotta be this, well, eighties maybe because she, yeah, because she, that to be the first show that he makes because Sheldon.
Um So mine was cat calling construction workers.
It feels very much a trope of this time.
I was talking a little bit about that earlier.
Also, something from the nineties, you know, I think it was used so much around that era that um it really got worn out.
In fact, I haven't seen that on a wall that like whole trope on a show in a while.
Um until actually HBO Max put out a show recently called Me.
Um And it did have a fun twist on these scenes, but it's a period piece taking place in the seventies.
So it, they're definitely setting up some feminist uh ideas there.
And uh I'm just gonna say also, I'm just gonna plug the show it's really, really good, super inappropriate.
And I'm just gonna go ahead and tell you that like, maybe don't have your kiddos in the room.
Like in the way of euphoria, there's a lot of random penis in there.
So I'm just letting you know, Happy Saturday To me.
I'm just saying we really do that a lot now and like, how many penises can we get in just like 30 seconds flat?
And the answer guys is astounding.
When you Go 100 years into the television with none of them, you got to get all Of them in at some point.
It does feel like between Euphoria and this show, I was like, I have seen 50 but in penises clip that Nikki.
All right, because there's no slut shaving around here.
That's all I'm saying.
Um The Royal Theater.
Yeah, that's what Suzanne and Charlene were working on something for in the beginning of the episode to support a renovation.
Um I found there was a royal theater or Bailey's Royal Theatre in the Sweet Auburn neighborhood of Atlanta opened in 1933 and operating during segregation, it served the black community but it closed in 1969 and I didn't see any reference to a word of uh like renovation in the 80s, which was the whole thing they were doing.
They were renovating this theater.
But that like, if that is that theater, that's a really nice Atlanta deep cut.
Yes, and like, and really nice too because like, Sweet Auburn, that whole area, which is really small actually.
But like that has a lot of history in that neighborhood.
So what a really cool reference if for and we've talked about this or actually you've specifically said it, like, how did L BT do this do this in a pre Google day?
It's pretty amazing.
I mean, she's not from Atlanta, so it's impressive.
My only other thing was Charlene says the bill at one point.
Um They're getting riled and that feels very Southern references we need to talk about.
There were a lot of costumes that are probably just at least worth mentioning.
Uh as, as these words are coming out of my mouth.
I'm like, I don't know.
Uh Marilyn Monroe Liz Taylor is Cleopatra.
Um Mickey Rooney.
I was confused at Charlene's reaction when Suzanne said he was going as Mickey Rooney.
She's like, what is he wearing?
And she says Mickey Rooney and Charlene kind of pulls a face.
Um I googled a little bit and I guess, and I mean, this with all respect due to um the late great Hollywood legend, I guess he wasn't all that attractive.
He's a character actor.
He was that should tell you everything you need to know.
Yeah, he was not a heart throb.
I think she was hoping for maybe more of a Charlton Heston and I'm like, where are you going with this?
What are you gonna, what William?
Listen, he's a good looking guy.
Katherine Hepburn in lion of winter, lion in winter.
Had to look this up too.
Um, 1968 British movie about Henry II of England in the 1100s.
Taking it back, you know?
Uh, for the movie Hepburn won her third best actress Oscar.
Yeah, I can't like, I'm, I, I do know that movie but I've never seen it and it's probably time to close up that movie Gap.
That's all I, I'm like, I'll never see it.
I never know.
Um, ok, so I just wanted to add, I also looked into Mike Tyson.
Um, you covered the Robin Givens things.
One other interesting thing about that is around that time.
So Robin Givens actually, like, accuses him of domestic abuse on live TV in a pretty infamous Barbara Walters interview accuses, feels like a really terrible word to, to, but she, like, brings it out into the light in a live interview which is a pretty bold move, I think, um, for any time period because, but I think especially in the eighties because I just feel like again, this is something that just sort of got relegated to the shadows.
You know, I read he was sitting in the audience when she did it.
I, I know he's there.
I thought they were, like, being interviewed together at the same time.
He was, he was on set when it happens.
I, I can't, I, I think if I was Barbara Walters, I would have just melted into the floor.
I felt like there was a little bit more missing to it and I probably could have dug a little deeper.
But I was so I should have just watched it because I was like, what was his reaction?
But my Googling does have its limits the same.
But, you know, so, but I was thinking like it was possible the interview happened right around when they were filming the episode and L BT like wound up coming back and adding it to the script.
I was actually thinking it made me think about your extra sugar, Nikki where um you told us that she was notorious for changing scripts right up until the last minute.
So it sounds like maybe this wasn't sitting well with her and they shouldn't have.
It's a terrible thing.
Um I also, this is just something that came up and I was just astounded by his career as a professional boxer only because I never looked at his record before.
Um Because I was, I'm more familiar with the things that have happened outside of the ring when it comes to Mike Tyson, the bit of the ear in the ring, which I saw live um when that happened.
Um but so he's had 58 fights.
Only six losses and 44 were wins by a knockout that's nuts.
That's why they named the game Mike Tyson's knockout.
Oh, my gosh.
So, anyways, I just also my, uh, complete lack of knowledge about anything sports related.
I do not enjoy boxing, but growing up my parents really did.
I just don't understand.
I don't want to see two people.
It's not for me, beat the heck out of each other.
But, like, it's the typical gladiator stuff.
It's just not for me.
I just can't believe we haven't moved entirely away from that.
Like, this idea of, again, it's fine.
Do what you want to do.
I'm not trying to do.
I'm just saying it's weird to me that we're in 2022 that's still acceptable to, it just keeps getting worse to, like, watch people knock the crap out of each.
So, you know, what's weird to me is that we talk about, um, concussions in football and maybe it's a foregone conclusion that boxers have a lot of issues.
But, like, we're not talking about that.
Do we not want to talk about their mental health?
And I don't think we do enough doing it with, for NFL players.
I mean, we're not doing anything about it but everybody knows.
I don't know.
I guess like, I feel like any time you talk about it, welcome to Nikki and Salina's Sports Podcast where we're gonna say things like, I mean, it's boxing, right?
Or is it M Ma, what's M MA M MA is where I just put my face in my hands and cry.
Is that when they go into the, what is it called?
Going into the cage?
But I don't know, I just know they kick the crap out of each other.
Um, yeah, so I, I was gonna say, I think any time you follow that trail back, if there's lots of money to be made, suddenly everything's ok.
And that is usually in general my problem with sports.
So we probably won't be getting a lot of sports whatever on here because I'm not into it anyways.
So uh Liz Taylor, I, I'm wondering to be, I know people our age, maybe people are, do people our age know who Liz Taylor is?
I don't even surely our age, not the generation behind us.
I, I don't know, but it feels like important to say if you do not know she was a child actor in the early 19 forties.
She goes on to be one of the most popular stars of class, classical Hollywood cinema in the 19 fifties.
And I did wanna say that I think much like Tyson.
She was also very famous for things that happened outside of her craft.
So at the time, she was very scandalized for the number of marriages.
She had eight, but also having, I don't care, I'm just saying it was eight and at that time it was a lot of gossip around it.
She also had an affair with Eddie Fisher who was married to Debbie Reynolds and who was basically America's sweetheart at the time.
Um, I also think this is interesting that if you think about it, that Suzanne was dressed up like Liz Taylor because Liz Taylor had a lot of marriages.
Suzanne had a lot of marriages.
I think Suzanne married her, one of her husbands at least more than once.
And so did Liz Taylor.
I don't think this is the first time they've drawn a parallel between and Liz Taylor.
Uh which is true.
They really do look a lot alike.
They're two very beautiful women.
Uh And I think you covered all the rest of mine.
So thank you.
Well, it's what we call a time saver.
Well, Nikki's, what I'm saying is Nikki is brief in her explanation and I am long.
So this is a thank you from the audience to Nikki.
I just consider it a, a taste tester when I just sort of throw out a but here's the fact you could know about Henry II and then 1100s or whatever.
And then I like to take you through the full breakdown.
We like to do a little dissertation.
What about cut lines for this 1?
There were two cut lines in the scene where the ladies are talking about the construction workers at the beginning of the episode first.
I'm pretty sure we missed another instance of Dixie Carter deadpanning an impression she did this, I think in season two right after, um, someone says the guy was wearing a no fat chick shirt.
This conversation happened probably Mary Jo said, oh, oh him, he's had that on since last summer.
I hate him.
Makes you wonder about his wife, doesn't it?
I mean, does she kiss him goodbye in the morning and say, gee, honey, you sure look handsome in your no fat chicks t-shirt.
Hope I didn't put much starch in it.
Have a nice day.
Charlene said, Julia, what did he say to you?
Why do you always want to know these things?
Oh, just curious.
Come on, we all told.
All right, Charlene, if you must know, he said, uh looking good, I want it.
I need it.
Got to, got to have it now.
So I feel like we missed that.
Uh Then just after Suzanne said it's the way Julia walks.
But before Mary Jo says, a woman has a right to walk down the street without being jeered.
Julia said, Suzanne, it has nothing to do with the way I walk.
It has to do with the culture that encourages some men to embarrass women as public sexual objects in the dim hope that somehow it will allow the men in question to cling to their, I imagined superiority.
You see, we lost some good Julia in this episode which I think is relevant to something you said way early on, which is Julia would have taken these men on and we lost that.
What little bit of Julia we had, I don't like it.
So that was it in cut lines.
So next episode, episode Seven curtains coins.
Oh, that's good.
Feels like it has to be.
Also, we'll come to find out that they're, I'm just gonna go and foreshadow, they don't seem to be clear on the name because uh somebody else it says the time I can't remember.
It's I M DB or whatever, but it's like, but they're nice curtains.
It's like the name of the episode or something.
I'm like, what, what, what, what is it anyway?
So we're gonna call it coins, coins.
So as always, we'd love everyone to follow along with us and engage Instagram and Facebook at Sweet Tea and TV.
Our email address is Sweet Tea TV pod at gmail dot com and our website is W W W dot Sweet Tea TV dot com and hang tight for this week's Extra Sugar.
We're gonna talk about the history of dating.
It's more exciting than it sounds.
I have no doubt.
Well, you know what that means?
What does it mean, Salina, we'll see around the bin.
Welcome to this week's edition of Extra Sugar where we're going to explore the hot and heavy history of dating.
What do you want to call this segment?
We're going to call it the Tinder binder.
She's got gold over here in this brain of hers.
So, in this episode, do you think it's fair to say?
We learned that Charlene and Bill have maybe different ideas about how and when a person has to date, I think we absolutely learned that.
So Charlene's over here thinking you gotta play the field a bit to know what you like and know what you don't like.
Also from Suzanne though, we don't really know what she thought Suzanne got in her head.
Well, that's the way that field.
So Bill over here thinks when you know, you know, where do you fall in there?
Oh, I didn't know there will be questions for, I'll tell you, I think I'm somewhere in the middle.
I don't think you have to date around like your entire life.
I think you just be, you, you just be whatever feels natural to you.
That's, it's not not the subtext of our entire podcast.
I totally, yes.
And I think it totally differs depending on who you are.
I think some people do need to get out there and see what that's out there.
I think there are definitely there.
The high school sweetheart thing exists for a reason.
There are those people who they just meet the one person and they never need to be with another person.
And that's ok too.
Everybody has a different journey.
That's my answer.
That's a good answer.
Your answers are so much better than my James Lipton answers.
When you put me on the spot, you do much better.
So before we start, I want to make my inclusivity programming note, this segment will be us centric because that's where we live.
And that's what I identified with the most in putting together.
The segment dating cultures are like super different all around the world.
One is not better than the other.
They're simply different.
So I don't want anybody to feel weird or other if the things we talk about here um and things that happen here in the US don't happen, like wherever they're from or whatever culture they identify with, that's thing one, this is also going to be a really heteronormative segment because to be honest, that's the way relationships have been reported on in our country.
Um And I believe in many countries for a long time.
So that's the way a lot of the source material is written.
Um So if you're not heterosexual, we see you, we always just want you to know that.
So on to the big show queuing you up.
I think many of us know that dating has not always been a thing.
Um I found a New York Post article about a book called Labor of Love which explores the history of dating.
Um And it said that even the word date was only coined in 18 96 and it was coined by a Chicago record columnist and it sounds like maybe it was even an inadvertent invention of the term.
So he was writing a column about working class lives and told the story of a guy whose girlfriend started seeing other men after she lost interest in him.
So the man says, I suppose the other boys fill in all my dates.
That's where the word dick came from Until the turn of the 20th century.
Courting was the way to go.
That's what I was thinking was about courting.
It's definitely much more formal and structured than a quick like swipe, right?
Um At that point, women along with their parents would meet with male suitors privately and they were not super concerned with grand romantic gestures.
In case people need like a visual.
Um They really wanted to interview these guys about things like financial and social status.
Can you imagine wild, right?
Um They definitely wouldn't like nip out for a private little dinner or anything their activities would take place at home or in like really big public settings.
So to your point Bridger, um as the century turned to this concept of coordinating marriage matches shifted like a little bit while marriage was still the ultimate goal.
The process was a little more free wheeling, maybe dare I say, allowed for a little more personal choice.
Um So that's where we see the gentleman call her.
Um If a suitor was interested in a girl.
He'd come to her house and hopefully be welcomed into the parlor after that.
If all went well, he could be invited back during set times whenever he wanted.
So it's like come back any time between six and seven.
It's, wow, it's crazy.
I'll add here that my sorority house in Athens, which was built in the late 18 hundreds.
I had to look this up.
Um, they even had a special room for this.
Um, the court room.
It was a parlor that existed just for courting.
Um so obviously I went to college much more recently than the 1890s because I'm so young.
Um, though not much, uh we used it for that reason too.
So men weren't allowed into the living quarters of the house, which were the upstairs place.
Um, they had to kind of stay in that room or the main floor of the house.
But sororities, they're getting better and better for you, aren't they?
Sure I am so um curious and I don't expect you to have the answer, but like if parents were the people who were kind of like monitoring and asking these questions when this was done in the home parlors, like who in the world in sororities was like we had a house mom.
But, but in the 18 nineties like, oh yeah, I don't know about that.
This my sorority house.
Sorry, I should clarify my sorority house was built for uh it was called the Wedding House.
It was a wedding gift for um a, a man, a businessman.
I don't remember his story, but for his daughter, God, I'm so glad that's the reason behind that name.
Yes, I thought it was gonna be like I went to school to get my M R S.
It didn't become a sorority house until later 60s, maybe.
So, it, it was a historic home that was built for that reason and we just used that room for the same reason.
Is it coming together now?
So now we move past that.
We're going into the roaring twenties.
Around this time, the formalities of courting went out the door and couples started going on what we more traditionally think of as dates from the beginning, men paid for dates, which was a power dynamic shift of sorts.
Since prior to that, women had kind of held the cards in the courting structure.
So they brought them into the house.
Now men are paying for the dates and taking the women out.
I read something in a New York Post article um That shared that even the concept of men paying uh on dates was a little layered.
So as we all know, women aren't paid as much as men even today, but it was so, so much worse in the early 1900s, employers paid women under the pretense that they were working to supplement their husband's income.
So they use that as a rationale for paying them less, which meant then women could afford less.
And that article I found quoted a woman who basically said, thank God for dates.
Otherwise I couldn't afford to eat if I had to pay for food every night.
Well, that's kind of a modern concept too.
So, like, I've definitely heard of people who like, and this is normally like in television shows or something, but they basically go on a bunch of tinder dates just to be able to eat, have dinner because they don't have a lot of money because they're in school or something, right?
It feels like a lot of work.
I think I would just eat a lot of Chinese or something.
Pizza, a lot of pizza, ramen noodles, man.
So as we moved further into the 21st century women found themselves interacting with a much wider pool of potential suitors either through college work, whatever, it just widened the dating institution.
Sometimes I get my centuries wrong.
I said 21st.
Is that right?
If it were like the 19 hundreds, no, 20th century, I get my dates wrong.
Um So we're still talking about the 19 hundreds.
Um At each level, the approach to dating became more and more about romance as a necessary precursor to marriage.
So marriage remained the main goal.
Uh But people were more specifically looking to love their potential long term partner, which had not been a concern in the time leading up to that uh by the 19 fifties, couples were loudly and proudly sharing their commitment to one another in a dating environment.
By quote, going steady uh per custom, the man would give his female partner a sweater or a jacket or a ring and that would symbolize them going steady.
I just like using their air quotes as the fifties gave way to the sixties.
Sexuality entered the discussion more prominently than it ever had before.
I was surprised to learn that the fifties is when things like necking and petting came into play.
You thought it was late early, I thought it was Early in the 50s and the necking not so much but, and it's what you think It is.
I don't know, I don't know because like, if you watch again, I'm like, all of my knowledge comes from movies.
But if you watch movies and they're set in the 50s, like I'm even thinking about like back to the future and stuff, they all have like these little make out points and stuff.
So Uh those things became even more prominent, in fact, even being a sign of freedom and symbols of personal, right, with the 60s and notably the advent of birth control, um an article that I mentioned earlier pinned uh the start of the quote hookup culture to this decade um sexual revolution, baby.
Uh so technology sounds like it was the next big development for the dating world.
And surprisingly, this blew my mind.
Technology for dating may have even had a start in the us even in the 60s at Harvard, when some enterprising students developed a dating questionnaire and ran it through an IBM mainframe computer to make matches, romantic matches.
Um that company ran for a couple of years and even expanded to company uh to campuses across the country.
Um once that service died out, there's really not that much to say in the way of technology unless we mention Charlie and screenshot phones from episode five.
I don't know.
That sounds like it could get interesting when it comes to dating.
You know what I mean?
Well, shot until the early and mid nineties when we saw match dot com.
Uh It was founded in 1995.
Uh After that, the options proliferated, there were AOL chat rooms.
Craigs List became a thing by the late nineties, things like that.
I think that's where I'm required to pull out my millennial card.
One thing that's really fascinating about our generation is how we've lived straight through these technological innovations.
That is to say I'm simultaneously young enough to remember a friend's uncle online dating in the late 90s, early oughts and thinking it was just the weirdest creepiest thing in the world.
And now I have friends that I'm not sure ever date outside of tinder or bumble or anything like that?
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah, I specifically remember like a line from cruel intentions where Ryan Phillipe Phillipe, I guess, um, where he's talking and he's mentioning the internet and saying it's only for creeps and weirdos or something similar to that.
And then, yeah, absolutely.
It's just like not the case, obviously, that was not very, um, forward thinking and it has not aged well, yeah, it's just weird to have to have your feet in two different sure generations.
So wrapping up this history of dating segment.
So I want to come back to Charlene and Bill's predicament as I was perusing source material for this segment.
One thing that stuck out to me is the ever present question around is dating harder now or back then.
I think heart is always like relative and personal.
What's hard to me might be easy to you and vice versa.
But I do feel like dang coordinating the logistics of dating, finding the right person, figuring out what to do and where to go, not wanting anyone to get the wrong idea about you.
Um That feels really hard like in the eighties.
So I'm thinking specifically about like Charlene's era in the eighties.
Like I was listening to her make phone calls or Suzanne make phone calls to set up the date and thinking about where they're going to go and Charlene doesn't want too many people to see her doing this, that it just feels like a lot.
Feels less relevant now.
Um, courting also sounds like it's right with potential for awkward, but at least it's pretty straightforward.
I don't know.
I feel like that one sounds the worst.
I mean, from the perspective of like personal choice and freedom and whatever.
But if you think about it practically, I think about things practically.
If you're the woman, you just show up downstairs dressed with a smile on and the guy does all the work, he's got to impress your parents with his personal resume.
I don't, it sounds easy to me.
Well, you gotta make sure that you're worth two sheeps quilt some cups and you just do your hair, right.
And you are, um, perfection.
And it seems to me like, as we move away from courting through all of these decades of time, it just sounds like a lot of work.
An app does seem like it makes things easier, at least logistically.
But I don't know.
Dating seems hard.
I'm glad to be married.
Anyhow, at any rate, it's a tale as old as time person meets person.
Person falls in love person.
Is that right?
Left, left, right?
I don't know.
Depends on, oh, then you swipe.
I don't know.
I've never done it, but dating has changed a lot.
I, I'm old accidentally, but that's another story.
What I do know is thanks for sticking around this has been this week's edition of Extra Sugar.