Designing Women S4 E21 - No Squealing, Giggling, or Giving Birth
Updated: Jun 22
Sugarbakers will do anything to get the client, even if it means swilling beer, smoking stogies, and wearing someone else’s shoes. That’s right, the ladies go toe-to-toe with an all-male design firm in an epic showdown to see who’s got the balls to win the bid on a bowling alley renovation (bowling balls, sheesh, people, get your mind out of the gutter). Anyways, girls rule and boys drool. Or at least we think that’s the takeaway.
Come back on Thursday for an “Extra Sugar”, which capitalizes on Bill Engvall’s appearance in this episode to talk about the Blue Collar Comedy Tour.
Come on y’all, let’s get into it!
Salina: Oh, hey, Nikki.
Nikki: Hey, you.
Salina: My bad. See, meeting you here, this is me that starts this off.
Nikki: It's you.
Salina: Sorry. Iwas thinking about dinner, just to be honest.
Nikki: Do you have big plans?
Salina: No, not really. But we are getting wings and I just started thinking about them.
Nikki: Where are you getting wings from?
Salina: Jim and Nick’s.
Nikki: Okay, I need to share with you.
Salina: Your new wings place.
Nikki: So we went to that birthday party that was hosted by our neighbors and they had some wings there and they were Korean style barbecue chicken wings.
Nikki: Yes, and they're very spicy.
Nikki: You like spicy food, right?
Salina: I'm a big spice food person.
Nikki: It's near you, so I'm going to send you a link for it.
Nikki: Okay, off topic.
Nikki: Sorry, friends.
Nikki: I think it's called CK Chicken and it's near Suwanee.
Nikki: If anybody's in the area, it's near HMart, right?
Nikki: They're very good.
Salina: Yeah, I wanted the flavor recommendations, too.
Nikki: Whatever we ordered last time, very spicy.
Salina: Have you had Jim and Nick smoked?
Nikki: I have not, no.
Nikki: But they're probably pretty good.
Salina: They also have a really good salad, which I know sounds like kind of ridiculous.
Salina: Oh, cool, a house salad.
Nikki: I like salads from barbecue places because they put the barbecue chicken or the barbecue pork on top.
Salina: Well, you can get it that way.
Salina: This is literally just like the salad, but they have like I don't know, it's just like a really good cheese and they have like, bacon in it and their dressings really I don't know, it's like really fresh.
Salina: I don't know.
Salina: It's stand out.
Nikki: I also really love a steakhouse side salad or house salad.
Nikki: So Kyle and I were having this conversation because we just went to what did I tell you, texas Roadhouse.
Nikki: Their house salad is so flipping good, and there's nothing really to write home about.
Nikki: It's just really crisp lettuce, very thick shredded cheese, egg on top.
Salina: Makes a difference.
Nikki: It makes a difference.
Nikki: And then for whatever reason, the ranch dressing at a steakhouse or a barbecue restaurant is usually really good.
Salina: Okay, look, if you're going to say that, then I have to give outback.
Nikki: A plug because their salads, their croutons are really good at Outback, aren't they?
Nikki: Really good.
Salina: Yeah, all their salads are good.
Salina: All their dressings are good.
Salina: Their blue cheese chop salad is one of my favorites.
Salina: Anyways, full disclosure, I used to work at Outback.
Nikki: Full disclosure.
Salina: Well, what I'm trying to say is this is not like us trying to get, like, sponsorships.
Nikki: Oh, no.
Nikki: This is like just really like food.
Salina: It's really like food.
Salina: And normally I have a lot of mixed feelings about Outback because I used to work there, but my feelings are not mixed on their salads, nor their French onion, which is, bar none, like one of the top three French onion soups I have ever had.
Salina: Really good.
Salina: I mean, unless you don't like French onion soup.
Nikki: I love French onion soup.
Nikki: And I just had it recently and now I can't remember where.
Salina: Well, next time get it from outback.
Nikki: From outback.
Salina: So that's my little tipsy from me to you.
Salina: I could pull out my Outback flare tip, T-I-P as in Paul S.
Salina: So I got one more thing that I have to tell you before we jump into the episode.
Salina: I didn't have enough time to tell you in the last extra sugar because it was long.
Salina: Just as a reminder, if you're hopping in on this episode and you missed our extra sugar, it was about prohibition.
Salina: Go back if you'd like.
Salina: Either way, I needed to tell you something really stupid that I did.
Nikki: Tell me.
Nikki: Tell me more.
Salina: So it was funny because you asked me like, where's my drink?
Salina: When we were doing the segment and you made a joke about bathtub gin.
Salina: Okay, so here's the thing.
Salina: I was going to make some moonshine.
Nikki: Oh, yeah.
Salina: I was looking up recipes to make it and then I was going to piece together a video of it.
Salina: I was going to serve you some moonshine.
Salina: I was going to promote it as part of our promotion for the episode.
Salina: Had all these big plans.
Salina: Two things.
Nikki: Why is my mouth so dry right now, Selena?
Nikki: Tell me.
Salina: Well, I will tell you.
Salina: First of all, it's really hard.
Salina: Or the instructions that I found looked really hard.
Salina: My choices were it either takes a really long time with less steps or it's faster and there's like 200 steps.
Salina: And then I didn't think either one of those were ideal.
Salina: But also it really felt like if I messed up one of those steps, I might kill you.
Salina: It seemed dangerous.
Salina: So I was still going to make it.
Salina: But I was like, I'm not going to serve this to her because I'm afraid I'll hurt her.
Salina: So I was like, okay, but I'll still make it.
Salina: So I'm talking to Casey about it and he's like, Selena, we don't have a still.
Salina: And I was like, I'll just amazon it.
Nikki: It's fine.
Salina: They're on there.
Salina: So that also wasn't the problem necessarily, although they're quite expensive for a bit.
Salina: So I was just going to try and figure out a way to do it myself.
Nikki: To go up to Ace and get all the parts.
Salina: Yeah, a little DIY, a little DIY steel.
Salina: But then so stubbornly as I'm looking at things and how to do it, this is what actually stopped me.
Salina: It's illegal.
Nikki: I was wondering if you were going to get to that part or if that was something you were trying not to say.
Salina: Here's where I got confused because to your point, you said, well, I've had some of the ones that they sell in the store.
Salina: So I was like, I mean, they must have like made moonshine legal or something at some point.
Salina: I don't know.
Salina: I just got confused.
Salina: So I was actually going to try and make, like, a delicious flavor, like an apple pie or something.
Nikki: I actually have some apple pie moonshine at home.
Salina: Oh, there you go.
Nikki: I could have brought it, I guess.
Nikki: I try not to drink it because it's legal, but it still puts hair on your chin.
Salina: It's still pretty potent.
Salina: So the way I found out is when I was looking up one of the recipes, it was like, this is illegal.
Salina: Theoretically, this is how you would do it.
Salina: That's right.
Salina: So I just wanted to let you know that out of ignorance, I almost became a moonshiner, and I was planning to document it and share it on social media.
Nikki: Glad you stumbled across the legality.
Nikki: As you were talking, I was like, well, did I miss something?
Nikki: Is it legal now?
Nikki: Because I was pretty sure it was illegal.
Salina: But I did find a very beautiful copper still on.
Nikki: Did you buy it, is the question.
Salina: It's $379.
Nikki: So did you buy it?
Salina: Oh, okay.
Salina: And it's right here.
Nikki: I thought it was your contribution to the podcast.
Nikki: God knows you don't do anything else.
Salina: I've been dying to tell you about this.
Salina: Oh, my gosh.
Nikki: Bless your heart.
Nikki: That is a real journey you went on.
Salina: That's so stupid.
Salina: But also, you should just look at a recipe because it looks hard as h***.
Nikki: I mean, I think that that speaks to the complication around legality of alcohol.
Nikki: Can you even imagine what they were dealing with during prohibition?
Nikki: Because it's like it's all illegal except drinking it.
Nikki: That part's legal.
Nikki: I feel that it's hard to know what's legal and what's not and why.
Nikki: And until you can understand why, how are you supposed to know, right?
Salina: There you go.
Salina: I'm sorry I didn't make you any moonshine, but thanks for not getting us in jail.
Nikki: Thank you for not killing me and not getting yourself put in jail.
Salina: That's right.
Salina: That would have been kind of bad.
Nikki: I mean, I would have had to do the run of shows by myself.
Nikki: I can't figure out how to do that.
Salina: It could have made an interesting I probably couldn't do a lot of podcasts.
Nikki: I was going to say, I wonder how long they'd put you in jail.
Nikki: I wonder if I can record I've got some things to look up.
Nikki: Then I wonder how if I could have recorded, like, in jail phone calls with you.
Nikki: Yeah, because sometimes you hear jailhouse footage.
Nikki: We'd have, like, Selena behind Bars, a new segment brought to you by Selena behind the bar.
Salina: I'd have to get a hold of some Lucy's Single cigarettes to exchange out for my phone.
Salina: And it wouldn't be a phone that could do any of this.
Salina: It would be like a 1990 phone or 1999.
Salina: It's tough.
Salina: Tough enough.
Nikki: Is that our transition?
Nikki: Did you just do that so seamless accidentally?
Nikki: Oh, my gosh.
Nikki: Season four episode 21, as Selena just said, tough enough, the ladies vie for a bowling alley contract in order to undercut a group of obnoxious male designers who try to act macho in order to dispel the stereotypes of male designers.
Nikki: Air date March 12 one nine.
Nikki: We're calling this one?
Nikki: No Squealing, Giggling or Giving Birth.
Nikki: It's written by Pam Norris and directed by David Trainer.
Salina: Great name.
Salina: Hi, John.
Nikki: He pulled it from script, but thank you.
Salina: Well, you got to have an eye.
Nikki: So general reaction, stray observations.
Salina: So I think the thing that was reverberating in my brain as I watched this one, the whole battle of the sexist plot was very of this era gender politics.
Salina: I just think they're a little bit more nuanced now.
Salina: So I don't think we get an episode like this today.
Nikki: Go ahead.
Salina: Well, I was going to ask you, did the guys from the design firm work for you?
Salina: What was your reaction to the different parts with them?
Salina: Like, you loved them, you wanted to take them to your Christmas party this year.
Nikki: I thought we'd be best friends.
Nikki: They were just so over the top.
Nikki: But I expected it.
Nikki: I really enjoyed the European guy.
Nikki: I can't remember, was he Italian, did they say?
Nikki: Or is he just like, generic European?
Salina: They did say he went to a Barcelona institute.
Nikki: That's right.
Nikki: I really thought he was very funny.
Nikki: I really liked him.
Nikki: They were just so over the top.
Nikki: That was my reaction to them.
Nikki: They're supposed to be over the top.
Salina: Well, that's literally my note, but how over the top they are.
Salina: And I definitely understand why they did that to make whatever point they're aiming to make in the episode.
Salina: But it was so much and so ridiculous that it almost took me out of the episode.
Nikki: So I have a lot of thoughts.
Nikki: I'm going to start with that one specifically, which is there was one episode where you said, this is almost like what you imagine someone imagines someone in that group talks like.
Nikki: Does that sound familiar to you?
Nikki: I could not put my brain on it.
Nikki: I left it out of my notes.
Nikki: But the reason I'm bringing it up is because as I was watching this episode, I was thinking, this sounds like what Pam Norris thinks men are like when women aren't around, that they're very, like, macho and whatever.
Nikki: And I just could not figure out what we were supposed to do with this episode.
Nikki: So there's a comment from Julia to Suzanne when they get to the bowling alley that she says, we are attempting, in fact, to dispel the idea that women are necessarily frivolous, silly, incompetence.
Nikki: So the way that's worded first, it assumes ladylike things are frivolous and silly, right.
Nikki: Which sort of plays into the mindset of macho men.
Nikki: It also implies that frivolous and silly are synonymous with incompetent, which plays into the patriarchy's perception.
Nikki: So what does that mean.
Nikki: And then later, Mary Joe says we thought we had to prove we could be like men to get the job.
Nikki: So I think that's what they wanted us to take away from the episode.
Nikki: But Julia's not saying that.
Nikki: And I know they had to write something, but Julia is not saying we have to be like men.
Nikki: She's saying we have to be not frivolous or silly, which is essentially saying we have to be not women.
Nikki: The two pieces don't fit together for me.
Salina: And I wonder if it's her lens of what she thinks, like, a male bowling alley owner wants or what he would see as frivolous.
Salina: And so maybe she doesn't eat Nest, although it gets messy, right?
Salina: Because I do think that she thinks her sister is silly and frivolous.
Salina: So is that more about Suzanne than women in general?
Salina: I don't know, and I can't tell.
Nikki: If I mean, yes, we're taking it too far.
Nikki: We are looking into it with too much of an in depth lens.
Nikki: But also, I think there's value in thinking critically about it because something about the episode just spoiler alert, the whole episode didn't resonate for me.
Nikki: There's something about it that I just did not enjoy.
Nikki: It felt so over the top and not in a useful way that moves the conversation forward.
Nikki: It was such an extra approach that I didn't necessarily take away from it.
Nikki: And the bowling alley guy never once made me feel when he was talking to the women, like they had to be like those men for him to consider them for the job.
Salina: No, he's like he felt like he.
Nikki: Had just checked a box.
Nikki: He felt like, no, I already got someone lined up.
Nikki: I just don't need anybody else.
Nikki: They were here first.
Nikki: They seemed to have a good proposal.
Nikki: I'm happy with it.
Nikki: He never once made the women feel like they had to be like the men to get the job.
Nikki: That was totally self imposed, and it bothered me so much.
Salina: I don't even know that I think people are writing 22 episodes, right?
Salina: Or in this case, 300 or whatever this season is.
Salina: Sometimes I look at the number on this season and I'm like, why.
Salina: There so many episodes?
Nikki: Why was it such a long season?
Salina: I don't know.
Salina: And I'm not trying to hate on it.
Salina: I'm just saying, like, in a world where we're only exposed to ten episodes now, it just feels extra long.
Salina: But you could argue while we're just doing this in depth analysis, needed or not, is like, the whole concept.
Salina: And all of this, whether it's sexual harassment in the workplace or whether it's like, this idea of patriarchy or whatever it is, it's complicated.
Salina: And so maybe it never is in a straight line, and maybe that story never makes complete sense.
Salina: But if you're writing a show, you kind of need it to make complete sense for 22 minutes.
Salina: And I agree with you.
Salina: I think the message is a little lost.
Salina: The only thing you really walk away with is like, this guy just needed somebody who was going to be serious about the work and not act out, which they all were doing in his business.
Nikki: And sometimes they really take these twist.
Nikki: We've talked about this before.
Nikki: They take a twist at the end of the show where you're like, oh, holy crap, I didn't see that coming.
Nikki: So in a way, the fact that he didn't need men to or yeah, that he didn't need men to do the job, that could have been a twist in and of itself at the end.
Nikki: So they could have played him up in a way earlier in the episode where that twist felt like a little bit more of a payoff or something.
Nikki: But I feel like this show takes very nuanced issues, like how women are treated in business and can do it such justice in such a nice way where you're laughing the whole way, but you leave the episode and you go, dang, women really do have a rough time in the business place.
Nikki: This episode didn't feel like that to me.
Salina: So I want to share something that is down in my likes, but it feels really relevant to what we're talking about right now, which is something where I do think maybe they were capturing some nuance here.
Salina: And before I say that, I want to say one more other thing.
Salina: This show was super progressive, but as I mentioned in my very first general reaction, like this idea that we don't see this episode made today, I think things have gotten more nuanced where we look at this and now, even though maybe it was progressive then, it just feels like it's coming up a little short in 2023.
Salina: So I think that's there, too.
Salina: The other thing, though, and this is something I liked, anthony called the women out at the end because always making them do things that are of their world, because they make this comment like, women would never put men in the position, like, to be macho and do these manly things.
Salina: Like, we wouldn't do that make men do girly things or whatever.
Salina: Okay, that's a really gendered comment.
Salina: But what I really like from that is because he's like, you all make me do your stuff all the time.
Salina: And it kind of calls out that idea that whoever has the power, they may not be thoughtful to the feelings of those around them who do not.
Nikki: Because I put that argument in my dislike because I don't understand it at all.
Nikki: He's not, like, required to show up to Suzanne's fashion show as part of his job.
Nikki: He's not, like, required to be in a hotel room helping her do her makeup.
Salina: Maybe he feels like he is.
Nikki: That's you saying that helps me maybe understand a different side of that because it just felt like they were trying to position it as a one to one.
Nikki: So women are required to be like men to get business.
Nikki: Anthony is required to be like women to have his job.
Nikki: And those are not one to one arguments in this case.
Nikki: But I hear what you're saying.
Nikki: Maybe the women feel like they're required to be like men, even though this episode shows they're not.
Nikki: And Anthony may feel like he's required to be like women.
Salina: That's right.
Nikki: Even though he's not.
Nikki: That makes a lot more sense.
Salina: Friendship has deepened there, but this guy's just trying to keep a job in the beginning, right?
Salina: So if you're going to do extra things to keep this job and he has a record, so it's hard for.
Nikki: Him to get jobs, he just sort of has to say yes to things.
Salina: And I think an easier way to understand it is like the power dynamics that we talk about between maybe a boss who you don't have to be male, but I think we tend to look at it through that lens.
Salina: And he might date someone who's underneath him in the hierarchy of the roles of the job.
Salina: He's not requiring her to.
Nikki: She feels compelled to do it.
Nikki: Yeah, that's right.
Nikki: I get that it's complicated.
Nikki: So maybe this episode did more than I thought it did.
Salina: Well, we are having a really intricate conversation right now.
Salina: I actually wanted to tack on one other things in my general reactions because in addition to thinking these guys were over the top and I didn't enjoy that part, I actually enjoyed them when they were alone because I think they had a little less of a macho conversation, you know what I'm saying?
Salina: Like Billing Vault wanted to call his wife.
Salina: He wanted to check on his baby.
Salina: The European guy, they were definitely playing up European stereotypes there.
Salina: But he was like, we do it for the beauty of the world and these kinds of things.
Salina: And it's really the one guy, Boyd, which I do think is true to life.
Salina: Usually when there is a group of aholes, there's one person riling up everyone else.
Salina: And so that actually did resonate for me more than anything else.
Nikki: It's almost like women are from Venus and men are from Mars and we don't understand each other and we keep projecting our stuff on them and then making them act a certain way.
Nikki: My last general reaction was Mary Joe's back on the sauce, which coming right off a prohibition segment.
Nikki: I love talking about Mary Joe drinking.
Salina: Because this leads into my stray observations, which is that is one return that we get, or a rerun, if you will.
Salina: The other one we get is Suzanne still on the rice cakes.
Nikki: Man, that poor woman.
Nikki: She cannot stop them.
Salina: It's funny because the footage is so old, sometimes it's hard to see really specific things like what's on her plate.
Salina: So I think she's got carrots around the rice cakes.
Salina: But today when I was looking, I was like, is she eating French fries?
Salina: Fries around the cake?
Salina: Because that's not helpful.
Salina: I mean, I would rather have the French fries and you eat that, but it doesn't really make sense for the plot of the show.
Salina: But I think there were carrots.
Nikki: Another potential callback of sorts is Mary Joe's, the one that turns to the server and says, nice headlights.
Nikki: She's the one that is always obsessed with breasts.
Nikki: Like always, always.
Nikki: And so that was another sort of tie into her character, which was really nice.
Salina: That's in my likes just because I thought it was so funny.
Nikki: And I can almost predict that that would have made you laugh.
Salina: I'm also obsessed with breath.
Salina: I don't have any.
Salina: What other strays did you have?
Nikki: So we have two guest stars I wanted to talk about this week, one of whom is Bill Ingvall, who played Bill, the buddy at the bowling alley who wanted to call his wife.
Nikki: You just mentioned that.
Nikki: We're going to talk way more about him in this week's Extra Sugar, but we can't gloss over that.
Nikki: We also have Craig Schneider, who played Boyd.
Nikki: He would make later appearances in The Jeff Foxworthy Show and Blue Collar TV, which we're also going to talk about in this week's Extra Sugar.
Nikki: But he also appeared on Roseanne once.
Nikki: He didn't have an extensive filmography, but he was also on Roseanne and I love Roseanne.
Nikki: And while we were just talking about this show, being able to take complex social issues and make them funny, roseanne does that really nicely.
Nikki: I've been watching it this last week.
Nikki: I just turned it on one night because I couldn't watch another episode of King and Queens.
Nikki: It just felt too predictable at this point.
Nikki: So I turned on Roseanne because that's my other comfort show and it just makes me laugh out loud.
Nikki: And I feel like the way they approach storylines still feels relevant and current a lot of times, even though I.
Salina: Can see that there's not a lot of things in that show to age.
Salina: Because it is so like family oriented, even though you don't think of it.
Nikki: As being like that.
Salina: But it is.
Salina: Yeah, it's a great show.
Salina: Also, John Goodman.
Salina: Come on, National Treasure.
Nikki: He's so good.
Nikki: I also had a cut line.
Nikki: So at the beginning when Julius says Boyd and his guys are afraid, basically everyone's going to think they're gay because they work in design.
Nikki: This was also said.
Nikki: I mean, all this jockeying around going on and on about hookers and football and transmissions.
Nikki: We're talking major testosterone poisoning here.
Nikki: Well, they sure do make a lot of money.
Nikki: Of course they do.
Nikki: They get every sports club, every man's club, every sports bar, every bachelor pad, everywhere there's a man's job to be had.
Nikki: They just stomp right in and grab it.
Nikki: Well, you don't have to say another word, because I know the type.
Nikki: How do you deal with them?
Nikki: This is Anthony, I think, talking.
Nikki: I don't have to.
Nikki: When that kind of guy finds out I've been to prison, they have enormous respect for me.
Nikki: That's how dumb they are.
Nikki: I feel like that was just kind of a crappy cut line, because I think it was an important setup.
Nikki: It's important context.
Nikki: There was also a cut when the women were trying to get the job.
Nikki: We hear you're putting in a new restaurant.
Nikki: We have a lot of experience with restaurants.
Nikki: As a matter of fact, we're getting ready to redo another one.
Nikki: Which one?
Nikki: It's the ruffles and Bows tea room.
Nikki: So that's when we get the first reference to the Ruffles and Bows tea room, which was also, I think, helpful context when talking with that bowling alley guy.
Salina: Yeah, I definitely noticed the first I don't think I caught the second one, but I noticed the first cut line and thought that was not a great cut.
Salina: Okay, so I have some strays about Boyd specifically, I think needle nose Ned.
Salina: Ned the Head or Stephen Topolowski.
Nikki: Ned ryerson.
Salina: Remember, he was in season one, right.
Salina: And it's the one where Suzanne burns down the design house, and he's, like, in there.
Salina: He's like, eight breasts of Atlanta.
Salina: His name is Boyd in that episode.
Salina: I went back and checked it.
Salina: There's also something else that makes me think this is maybe the same character, but they just had to switch out actors.
Salina: I think there's a line in both where they're like, they just come around, or he just comes around and borrows stuff and never returns it, and they're similar, whatever.
Salina: So I think it's void.
Nikki: That is such a good catch, because I was feeling like this is not the first.
Nikki: Something did not feel brand new about this.
Nikki: That's such a good catch.
Nikki: I didn't put that together.
Nikki: Ned Ryerson.
Salina: I also think that his character is a little interesting.
Salina: I don't understand why he's like but a beam but a boom.
Salina: He's just like an Andrew Dice Clay rip off.
Salina: And that's all I could think the whole time.
Salina: And a lot of times, he didn't even sound southern to me.
Salina: And I think it is because of that bada bing, bada boom.
Salina: And not that you have to be southern.
Salina: Clearly, there are people in the south who are not southern, but I'm almost surprised they didn't have someone with a little bit more of a southern accent there.
Salina: And that kept occurring to me as we went through.
Salina: I have two more strays.
Salina: Okay, so the first one is that Boyd's design firm was set to make $150,000.
Salina: You know, I got to tell you today, that would have been $346,000.
Salina: That's tough.
Salina: And then Julia wears a size six.
Nikki: I am so glad she brought that up.
Nikki: Mary joe's, like, a seven.
Nikki: And I was like, Mary Joe, of all people.
Nikki: But when she said six, I was like, do they even make shoes that size for adults?
Nikki: Because I'm a nine and a half.
Salina: I think so six is the bare minimum.
Nikki: Holy crap.
Salina: Back before my feet got so wide because I'm so hot, I wore a size six and a half.
Salina: But I'm five two.
Nikki: How tall is she?
Nikki: She's not that tall, though.
Nikki: I think she's usually in heels, is the problem.
Salina: Do you mean her character?
Nikki: Well, maybe she's not that much taller than Annie Potts is.
Salina: Five five.
Salina: I still put you in a seven and a half.
Nikki: Yeah, come on.
Nikki: Are you talking like that?
Nikki: Like it's such a big shoe?
Salina: I'm not.
Salina: I wear an eight.
Nikki: We're a nine and a half.
Salina: Didn't we talk about this with still magnolias?
Salina: Oh, I wear a six.
Salina: It feels so good.
Salina: I wear a seven.
Salina: I'm in a nine.
Nikki: Just wear any shoe.
Salina: Are you kidding me?
Salina: Before long, I'm just going to be in, like, a shoe box.
Salina: That's the life I'm living, okay?
Salina: So trust me, no shade to anyone.
Nikki: And I was like, Holy crap.
Salina: Really small.
Salina: So what did you like about this episode?
Salina: Is there anything yeah, I lost you in that size six, Julia.
Salina: It's just tiny.
Nikki: Julia's competitive side is not surprising to me.
Nikki: Her saying pound him into the ground was a little bit surprising to me, and I loved that.
Nikki: So what do we do about that?
Nikki: We pound him into the ground.
Nikki: The whole bit about Suzanne arriving to the alley and getting the shoes was really funny.
Nikki: When she says that whole thing about putting that lady's mind to rest, do you really think I'm going to give up my brand new mod fruzon so.
Salina: I can walk out of here?
Nikki: That whole thing made me laugh.
Nikki: I just thought it was really beautifully written and perfectly tailored to that character.
Nikki: I also really laughed when the I'm calling him Italian guy, when he said, the male foam can be very beautiful.
Nikki: No, the ladies are, like, staring at him.
Nikki: That made me laugh out loud.
Nikki: And then the idea of Consuela hitting Anthony on the head with a pan just really cartoonish, and I like that.
Nikki: Those were the things I liked.
Salina: Okay, I had another one.
Salina: So when they're all there and Boyd's giving them a pep talk, and he's like, no one's calling the wife or riling them up, rather.
Salina: No intellectual comments and no being European.
Salina: And then that guy buttons up his shirt.
Salina: I laughed so hard.
Salina: God, I laughed so much.
Salina: Anyways, all right, Suzanne getting a strike in her hills.
Salina: What's the big deal?
Salina: I got to wear those ugly shoes.
Salina: I can do that in my hills, or whatever she says.
Salina: That was pretty fantastic.
Salina: Also, do you remember in the early 2000s when those, like, bowling shoes had a.
Nikki: Oh, like people wearing them outside of the bowling alley.
Salina: I mean, they weren't actually bowling shoes.
Nikki: But they look they looked like that sounds vaguely familiar.
Nikki: I also remember when bowling bag purses were kind of a thing.
Salina: That was also in the early aughts.
Nikki: Was it, I think sounds right.
Nikki: Yeah, that sounds right.
Salina: That's better than the shoes.
Nikki: Also, bowling shirts were kind of a thing for a guy, for guys for a while.
Nikki: Like the late 90s, mid 90s.
Nikki: Late 90s.
Salina: Keep that where it is.
Salina: And I mentioned this already, but I just really liked the manager.
Salina: In addition to the fact he did say, like, one thing that was weird to the women, he said, well, look, I don't have anything against women.
Salina: I really don't double down on it.
Nikki: I'm not racist, I swear.
Salina: But right.
Salina: That part was kind of weird.
Salina: But the rest of it, I agree.
Salina: He was really nice.
Salina: I thought he was willing to give them a chance.
Salina: He didn't care.
Salina: He just wanted somebody to do the job.
Salina: And then I do like that boyd makes, like, a homophobic comment about shuts it together.
Salina: Yeah, and I thought that was they've.
Nikki: Chosen an alternative lifestyle.
Salina: It was a very 1990 argument for that.
Salina: But I thought that was playing against the type of who they were portraying, I think, with who the actor and what he looked like and everything for playing that role.
Salina: So I really like that.
Salina: And then that's all of them.
Salina: We caught them all in other places.
Salina: The headlights comment I thought was really funny.
Salina: And I mentioned earlier Anthony calling out the women and making sure they understood.
Salina: Maybe they had their own issues to deal with.
Salina: So what did you not like about this episode, Nikki?
Nikki: I think I've already touched on everything, so I just didn't really understand what we were doing.
Nikki: Were we trying to make the women act like men in order to get the bowling alley guy to hire them?
Nikki: Were the women casting off womanly things just to prove they're not incompetent?
Nikki: Those feel like different things to me.
Nikki: Like subtly different, but different and an important different.
Nikki: I didn't really understand Anthony's argument, although you brought me around on that one.
Nikki: And then this is something I said earlier.
Nikki: I'm not really crazy about script writing as if it's coming from one group of people, but it's written by another.
Nikki: So that is like some of the things she was saying about men jocking around just felt like Pam Norris, her perception of men.
Salina: Men, they're just always talking about prostitution or what.
Nikki: It's hard for me to use that as a criticism because I think that I don't want to discount her reception of these things.
Nikki: Maybe she's heard these things.
Salina: I'm glad you said that, because the other thing that I was thinking about along this journey was that even though I'm saying everything fell over the top, I don't want to downplay or shoot over the fact that the workplace can still be and was a very hard place.
Salina: And that sexual harassment and fighting, all of that, and fighting against that was a really hard one.
Salina: Fought and it's still stuff that circulates and comes up today.
Salina: I'm in the serving industry, okay?
Salina: They invented sexual harassment in the workplace, in restaurants.
Salina: So, I mean, that's a really bad place for it.
Salina: So I don't want to gloss over that like it's not important.
Salina: It's just like we are also watching through that 2023 lens and it's too.
Nikki: Hard to tease those two things out.
Nikki: And that's like, I don't want to be unfair to this episode because it might have felt more relevant back then.
Nikki: It's just really hard for me to watch this now because I'm like, oh.
Salina: My God, I have astray.
Salina: So when I was tell me when I was watching it today at the very end, julia, she's basically going to play him in pool.
Salina: Did it look like they were going to get it on that night?
Salina: I was like, Are they about to hook up?
Salina: Is that what we're supposed to walk away with?
Nikki: It was very sensual.
Salina: That's definitely not what they were meaning to do.
Salina: She was going in there to fight.
Nikki: She was trying to show that she.
Salina: Was meanwhile, I'm like, they're going in there to get it on, right?
Nikki: They all but played let's get it on in the background when that was happening.
Salina: Okay, good.
Salina: For sure.
Nikki: That was very okay.
Salina: We're not having another sexuality weezer situation.
Salina: Tom scared.
Nikki: No, not you and me.
Nikki: We're on the same page about that one.
Salina: So I had one other thing besides the thing we've already talked about that we haven't touched on that I didn't really like.
Salina: It didn't completely work for me.
Salina: And that was actually Mary Joe this time.
Salina: I usually love it when she gets a little salt and salty, but it was too much.
Nikki: I loved it so much.
Salina: I don't know if I was feeling like that empathetic I'm embarrassed for you right now or what it was.
Salina: Or maybe it was like the women were pushing back on it more than ever.
Salina: Like, hey, can you just calm down?
Nikki: She was definitely annoying.
Nikki: Yeah, she's definitely that friend.
Nikki: You're like, shut up.
Salina: Except for the nice headlights line.
Nikki: You liked that one.
Salina: That was hilarious.
Nikki: I liked at the end, it was almost the very last line she had, and she's like, Well, Hail, I'm going to do something.
Nikki: And it just was such a Southern woman, angry, annoyed, had a couple of drinks and just, I'm going to do what I want.
Nikki: I just thought that was really funny.
Salina: I think maybe it's also because they squeezed a lot of her lines into one little quick stint, and you almost need to give that some space to breathe.
Salina: Probably because, as you know, I love me some Annie Potts and some Mary Joe.
Nikki: I know.
Nikki: All right.
Nikki: Must be tough for you.
Salina: It's so challenging.
Salina: Are you ready to rate this sucker?
Nikki: I'm ready.
Nikki: My rating scale is bowling pin shrapnel.
Salina: That's a good one.
Nikki: I'm giving it three out of five.
Nikki: So I thought it was a cool nikki today does not agree with this.
Nikki: I don't know that it was a clever enough storyline.
Nikki: I do think at times it was an entertaining episode.
Nikki: Like, I thought Mary Joe was really funny.
Nikki: I thought that Italian man was really funny to me.
Nikki: I thought all of Suzanne's lines were fantastic.
Nikki: So I laughed a lot.
Nikki: But it felt like we talked about a little bit tired as a storyline.
Nikki: And I think the twist of them at the end, realizing they do quote the same thing to Anthony, wasn't enough of a payoff to me to really feel like anybody really learned anything.
Nikki: And it definitely didn't turn it into any sort of superior episode.
Nikki: So three out of five.
Nikki: It's, like, right there in the middle.
Nikki: I could probably watch it again if I had to.
Nikki: It wouldn't be my first choice, though.
Nikki: What about you?
Salina: I think that's it.
Salina: It's not a rewatchable for me.
Salina: Even when I was having to try again this morning, try similar to you, I like the little pieces, but when I step back and look at as a whole and compared again to the highs of the season, I gave it a 3.4 out of five.
Salina: Really nice headlights on your car.
Nikki: 90s things.
Nikki: The old school doritos bag that Charlene was pulling chips out of at the beginning, that was totally a doritos bag.
Nikki: And it was totally the old branding doritos.
Salina: I like it when they do the throwback bags.
Nikki: The purple kulots that Suzanne wanted Anthony to bring her.
Salina: Is that?
Salina: Ninety s.
Salina: I didn't know what that was.
Salina: Oh, or like saying culots.
Salina: It makes me think of, like it's basically next to Clam diggers.
Salina: So I'm thinking, like, 50s.
Nikki: You know, it's funny you say that.
Nikki: I probably like it's that thing of maybe not 90s, but definitely dated.
Nikki: I've only ever heard my mom and my grandmother use the word kulots.
Nikki: So that's a pretty wide generation gap.
Nikki: But at some point, not today for sure.
Salina: I was like, that's what you want, the purple lot?
Salina: That'll be great.
Salina: I had car phone coming over to pick up physical decorating catalogs.
Salina: Trans Am with flames on the hood.
Salina: You could put that in other time periods as well.
Salina: It looked like I don't know.
Salina: They did say there was the automatic score for the bowling alley, but they were like there was, like, the pencil and everything.
Nikki: I'm glad you said that.
Nikki: He goes, no, the automatic scoreboard says, as if today if you go bowling, that is the scoreboard.
Nikki: That was really funny.
Salina: I'm like, why are you all like.
Nikki: Cutting edge technology, right?
Nikki: They had to check the machines.
Nikki: They didn't believe them back then.
Nikki: Well, I know.
Salina: So there's just like a lot of sexist and homophobic language that even if you were trying to make a play on it, I don't know, it makes it into an actual episode anymore, but like calling people pansies or lightning or bowling s***, I'm like, you wouldn't say this anymore, so let me go ahead and say it.
Salina: Sorry, but there are comments about another design firm and painting everything paisley, if you know what I mean.
Salina: Wink, wink, nudge nudge.
Salina: Like all that kind of stuff.
Salina: And then calling I'm always going to call this one out.
Salina: Calling your server a waitress or a service girl.
Salina: Get over here, service girl.
Nikki: Why is waitress so hard for me to let go of?
Nikki: It is really hard for me to let go of.
Nikki: I try so hard to say server, but every now and then out of nowhere, I'm just like waitress.
Salina: Since we're like people first now, is it also like people who serve?
Salina: I don't know.
Salina: I will say that when I was in New Orleans, the guy did I can't remember what he did, but I was like, you are my favorite server.
Salina: And when it came out of my mouth, it felt weird.
Salina: I was like, that felt like demeaning somehow and I didn't mean for it to.
Salina: So I just feel like maybe I'm.
Nikki: Getting like, you're my favorite wait staff.
Nikki: Thank you so much.
Salina: If you could just wave a feather over me and cool me off, that would be super helpful.
Salina: That's how it felt.
Salina: And I was like, what's wrong with me?
Nikki: And then you sat in it for a minute, you were like, I like being rich.
Salina: I mean, I would like to be rich.
Nikki: Southern things just the name of the bowling alley, the Cherokee Lanes.
Nikki: We do have a Cherokee County north of Atlanta.
Salina: Yeah, that would be a long way away.
Salina: It would be references that we need to talk about.
Nikki: The only one I caught was Maud Friezon, which was those shoes.
Nikki: Wikipedia says Friezon's work foreshadowed manolo blonics.
Nikki: And at the height of their popularity in the 80s, they were the Blonics of the time.
Salina: Oh, that's interesting.
Salina: Okay, so I also had that was my only reference.
Salina: And I would just say that it is kind of interesting that it was a model who started that shoe company as well.
Salina: So that's a good way to make a little extra cash after your modeling ends.
Nikki: I didn't spend much time looking into it, but it was just weird that they just sort of felt like I've never heard of this.
Nikki: I've never heard of this agner purses.
Nikki: Do you know what an Agner purse is?
Salina: I do.
Nikki: So my mom talks about them as if they were like a big deal designer label talks about.
Nikki: Yeah, it's just interesting to me how some of these big deal designer labels from like the just like completely fell off.
Nikki: But we still talk about things like Louis Vuitton.
Nikki: We talk about that all the time.
Nikki: That's been around forever.
Nikki: So what is it that makes some brands enduring, which is not what we're here to talk about.
Nikki: I guess I find it fascinating.
Salina: It must be like Missteps or something.
Salina: Well, it's like was it Halston?
Salina: And then we had a whole series that came out with you and McGregor last year and he plays him and it was just a huge deal and I was like, I kind of have heard of him before, but not really.
Salina: So it's just yeah, it really is interesting.
Salina: In her case, though, she sells the brand in 99 and I wonder if it does say they reach their peak popularity in the 80s.
Salina: Maybe we don't pay as much attention to high fashion as we do to TV shows or music, but you think about it, like, why is Elton John still like people will still pay a million dollars for his concert tickets, but then you have somebody else, they have one hit and they're gone.
Salina: So it's kind of like that.
Salina: I don't know.
Nikki: I was going to use Madonna as an example of someone who hasn't had a hit in a really long time, but so many people would still fall over themselves to go see her perform and they still think of her as like a legend and it's so hard to disentangle that star power.
Salina: And what about Mod?
Nikki: And what about Mod?
Nikki: What about Mod?
Salina: Would that be the name of our next podcast?
Nikki: Yes, but I think we have to talk about the Mod TV show, if we call it that.
Salina: Oh, yeah, maybe.
Nikki: Then there's mod.
Nikki: That's like a Family Guy reference.
Nikki: They keep singing.
Nikki: And then there's Mod.
Salina: Oh, really?
Salina: Okay, I'll take your word for it.
Salina: That was the end of my references.
Salina: Or ours.
Salina: Or yours?
Salina: I don't know.
Salina: Where are we?
Nikki: We are at the end of season four, episode 21.
Nikki: Moving on to season four, episode 22, It's a Wonderful Life.
Nikki: We'd love everyone to follow along with us and engage Instagram and Facebook at sweet tea and TV TikTok at sweettvpod.
Nikki: Sweet TV.
Nikki: And on the website you can find our show notes, which includes all of our references, and you can find additional ways to support the show and come back Thursday for Extra Sugar, where we're going to talk about the Bill Ingvall reference and more importantly, more bigly.
Nikki: I like bigly from a bigger perspective.
Nikki: His role in the Blue Collar comedy tour.
Salina: I'm very excited to hear about this.
Nikki: Well, temper expectations, that's what I always say.
Salina: All right, well, you know what that means.
Nikki: Nikki what does it mean?
Salina: Selena it means we'll see around the bend.