Designing Women S7 E7 - Julia Sugarbaker: Nude, Shrewd, All Attitude

Ah, the age-old fun-house version that’s not so “fun” - that’s what we were facing this season with Ms. Julia Sugarbaker. Her condescension was at an all-time high throughout the season and the runner of the tension between her and Mary Jo wasn’t our favorite part of the season. HOWEVER, there were some high points, so let’s chat about it.

And come back later this week for the second installment of the “Sweet Tea & TV Book Club” - we’re talking all things Dixie Carter’s 1996 book, “Trying to Get To Heaven: Opinions of a Tennessee Talker.”

A couple resources, if you’re curious!

• A history of women’s participation in clinical research 

• An Association of American Medical Colleges article on women in clinical research

• pipeline. 

• What is the evolutionary purpose of menopause?

• New advances in menopause symptom management - ScienceDirect 

Come on y’all, let’s get into it! 

Or listen on Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music.

Transcript

Hey, Nikki.

Hey, Salina.

And hey, y'all. And welcome to the season seven Julia episode, the very last character episode for the season in the series. How do you feel about that, Nikki?

Oh, boy. I have lots of emotions when you say it like that. I'm like, oh, man, that's. It's high pressure. For one, it's our last ever. But for two, man, it's kind of emotional.

It's a little bittersweet, as they say.

So how do you feel about it?

I'm gonna tell you after we get through. Women at the house.

Okay. So are you compartmentalizing your emotions till then?

I think so, because we just have more. More to do, you know?

We do.

I'll probably collapse at the end in, like, a. In a cheerful way, in a happy way. If my head hits the floor, it will be with love. Remember, Enjoy. Well, we can sum up our feelings. Don't worry, y'all. We'll. We'll get in our feelings.

Coming.

Today, we have to talk about Julia. This is a very important time

But today, we have to talk about Julia. You know, we get to. We. This is. This is a very important time.

Sometimes if I just stay quiet, watching you backpedal through something is worth the price of admission. Yes, we get to talk about Julia. It is our sweet tea and TV obligation, in fact. But we would do it even if we weren't obligated.

Yes. Okay. That's kind of nice.

Salina: There were a few episodes this season that were Julia focused

Okay, so, Salina, which episodes were Julia focused? What if this was me turning it on you and making you run through them real quick?

I would be ready if you need me to.

Probably that's true.

You want to switch roles?

No, because I'm prepared for this one. So we had a few episodes this season that were primarily focused on Julia, and then she was an important component of a few others. So episode one of Human Bondage. Obvs. this is the one where we learned that Allison left Sugar Bakers high and dry and broke. Enter BJ Poteet. Beyond obviously being a partner in Sugar Bakers and being related to the plot line in that way, she also goes on to lose her share. Julia, that is, goes on to lose her share in Sugar Bakers in a drunken poker game against bj. Episode three, Mary Jo versus the Terminator. So Julia is the Terminator. Here she goes to town editing a letter. I use the word editing in quotes. Editing a letter. Mary Jo has written the school board about them trying to cut the AIDS prevention program she helped stand up a few years ago. And Mary Jo has thoughts, and that takes up a lot of the episode. Then we have episode Four on the road Again. In this one, Mary Jo sets herself, Bernice and Julia up on a Thelma and Louise style road trip. Julia's part is that her new boyfriend is attending a conference in Nashville, so she wants to be part of the trip to go visit him for the weekend. Then we have episode five, Screaming Path. Screaming Passages. We get a continuation of the boyfriend storyline in this one, but this time it's part of Julia's journey into the change. She, has to break it to Philip that she's a woman of a certain age in this episode. Then we have episode 15, Nude Julia. New York Morning. Julia takes the crew to an art exhibit opening featuring the work of a college professor of hers. And much to everyone's surprise, they recognize a very familiar face in one of his paintings. Everything else they see may not be quite so familiar. Episode 19, the Women. The Woman who Came to Sugar Bakers. In this one, Julia's old school headmistress comes to stay at Sugar Baker's after being instructed to by her dead husband in a seance. Which I'm going to level with you. I forgot about until I was putting together my summary and, like, poking around and some things. And I was like, oh, it was a seance where he told her to come. Which is why they do the seance at the end.

Oh, yeah. Well, there's good scenes in that one. And then there's the rest of the episode.

Then there's the rest of the episode. Maybe we'll get into that.

Maybe.

Salina: Did I miss any major plot points on Designing Women

M. So then, briefly, her major plot. Were there any episodes I missed?

No, you got it.

Okay. And then her major plot points. so we learned that her very brief relationship with Dr. Hacker ended really abruptly just a few minutes into episode one on her birthday, which feels criminal to me. but worry not, Salina. I see the worry on your face. Worry not. She falls in love again quickly with Philip, a heartthrob and a composer, or.

Miranda Priestley's husband, depending on how you feel about it.

That. That's how I would have described him, too. I keep forgetting that.

That's okay. I'm here to remind you.

As per usual with Designing Women, Julia also finds herself on the brink of losing the business. But again, worry not. She quickly gains a new partner. In bj, she. I, just mentioned this. Confronts the greatest metamorphosis a woman can make. No, not becoming a woman. No. Not with being with child. No, not childbirth. The other one. The one where you get hot flashes and grow facial hair. That's right. Menopause. The Change. The change. The only big change. As I was putting that list together, I was like, man, being a woman is hard.

It's a good time, you know?

then she confronts her art teacher who took advantage of her both when she was young, and then again in, this episode where she finds out he painted a naked picture of her. And then she offers her home up as a safe haven for her former school headmistress. Did I miss any major plot points, Salina?

No. The only thing I wanted to say the whole time was Thelma and Louise.

You say Salina's lobbying for that to be our end of season episode, that special episode we watch.

I also said Fried Green Tomatoes, and I'm, also open to suggestions, so.

She's flexible, guys.

That's what Nikki's always saying.

As long as it's something she suggested, she's flexible.

You can go with any one of her options.

So we're calling Our Julia Season 7 Adventures Julia Sugarbaker, Nude, Shrewd, all attitude.

With that in mind, would you like to get into some character superlatives?

I would. This will be fun.

Perfect.

so, as has become our process, we want to talk about first our best and worst episodes. When you think of the Terminator, Nikki. And when you think of the Terminator in her final season, what was your best episode?

Well, when you put it that way, my best episode was the opposite of the Terminator. So it was the parts of Julia that I really love. and it wasn't one of the episodes we called out at the top of our show, but it was episode 14, the Wedding Redux. And I think it's because when I think about the universe of Julia episodes this season, this is the one where we really get to see her as a real friend. So she wanted to do something nice for Anthony and Etienne, something unselfish and without any ulterior motive or motivation. She really just wanted them to get a chance to have a separate ceremony with their families. so she, like, killed herself to make this thing happen. she had everything working against her, but she held it all together until the bitter end when she finally lost it and everything fell apart. But ultimately, Anthony and Etienne ended up with a really special moment, and it was all because Julia was trying to be a really good friend. And I feel like when I look back on the series of Designing Women, I want to remember them as this cast of people who came together to tell a story about co workers and friends. I don't really want to remember the infighting. I don't really Want remember, the negative pieces? And this episode was kind of the nicest example we had for Juliet this season. So that was my favorite.

I like that zag, and I appreciate it. And I think that is a nice balance to what has felt a little tense over the course of the season.

Yeah.

my best episode was episode 15, Nude Julia New York Morning. In general. I just thought this one was really funny. Interestingly, not necessarily Julia that was funny, but definitely there were a ton of funny moments for me, many that I've talked about over the course of the season. So I won't live in them. M. But just as a reminder, Bernice's turn as a nude model painted by old people with cataracts. We get that story. BJ And Anthony trying to buy back the painting was absolutely delightful. I will not soon detangle the idea of Monday Night Football in a good nude painting. going in my Monday Night Football routine this year. you're welcome, Casey. And then, Carlene attempting to hide Julia's naked body in the painting with them strategically placed decals, only to be bested by Julia running over there as well and covering up every tit and bit, if you will.

I will.

He will. Of course, for Julia specifically, I liked seeing something knock her off balance. In this case, Nigel. Not because I thought what he did was fair or right. Obviously it wasn't. But because we also get to see her snap out of it, snap on him and get back a painting he never should have had in the first place. and I do think that's really important because sometimes we've talked about Julia's tirades not necessarily being earned or, like, even though they're good and she. And Dixie Carter is a great performer. Sometimes you're like, whoa. And in this case, it was more than warranted. the painting is really her power, and she's taking that power back. And as the audience were introduced to an interesting conflict with the resolution that feels earned. You know how I'm about pace. So that was their, you know, 22 minutes of space used well is really about all I could ask for. M. So what about your worst episode?

So I went back to my notes that I was keeping in real time as I was watching the season through. And for episode three, Mary Jo versus The Terminator, I had written, this is Julia's worst episode ever. But again, it was real time. So as I continued watching through the season, it was bested, or worsted, as it were, by, one of another. One of the episodes we didn't call out at the top of the show, but it was episode 17, shovel off to Buffalo, which, I think you called as your worst Mary Jo episode.

Right?

Yeah. so I think we'll get into it a little bit when we get into, like, cringiest or most obnoxious moments. But this one was just a really bad look, look for Julia, as someone who was supposed to be one of Mary Jo's besties, she was just such a horrible friend in this episode. She was unsupportive, and, you know, we just can't support an unsupportive jerk. So that was her worst.

That's fair. We really zagged on this category.

I just went all over the place. You know what? I figured? It's the end of the season, end of the series. Let's just do what we want, man. Yeah, just do it. I added a whole nother category, which I'll tell you about in a minute when you finish your, When you finish your worst.

That's very exciting.

I'm just doing whatever I want, Salina.

I don't care anymore, as long as there's not a test. I'm very excited.

Mary Jo versus the Terminator was my worst episode for Julia

So it's interesting that you started and made me think you were gonna go with episode three, Mary Jo versus the Terminator. That was my worst episode for Julia. although I'm. I'm really definitely in line with you. I mean, just the shovel off to Buffalo. I don't know. But we. We've talked about this.

It was the hand to the palm that you hated the most. That palm to the head. I mean.

Right. You just don't do it. I've thought about that so many times.

I think about it, too. I imagine doing it to your head just to see your reaction.

I can't be responsible for what I do after face palming, you know? so for Mary Jo versus the Terminator, it's the recycled plots, for starters. You know, we're returning to the fashion show where Julia Moon m the audience. And then also Mary Jo fights for the hiv, AIDS education, and Claudia's school. Like, it just feels like it was episode three, and we were already out of things.

Really? And this is with a new character.

We had a whole new character and still ran out of things.

It's crazy. So, you know, this is the first. First of several episodes. We've talked about this all season. We've already talked about it today. It's. But it is the first time we see Julia and Mary Jo fight. And so that starts a runner that just didn't work for either one of us. So I just didn't think this was a good look for Julia. And I want to be very clear. I love the character of Julia, however, and I know fans do, too. When she's condescending, she's super condescending. And I just. That's not an enjoyable experience for me, you know? So there you go.

I added best outfit for Julia in episode two

Well, how can I add a category real quick?

Oh, is right now? Yes, right now.

Well, only because I don't want to forget. I added best outfit. We've touched on this, like, on and off throughout this season, but I wasn't as intentional about it, mostly because I don't really see that many outfits that I'm, like, mind blown. But there was this episode, this outfit, that Julia wore in episode two. It's, like a purple, floral jacket with, like, a yellow, Or chartreuse. What you call that? It's hard to see colors. Chartreuse skirt. when she came on screen, it's this beautiful blazer. That is not a print I normally would like, but when she came on screen, I gasped, and then I wrote it down in my notes. It's the only outfit other than one that BJ wore, and I didn't bring it up because it was such a, like, non sequitur. But BJ wore this one outfit that I think I had when I was 9. My grandmother gave it to me for Christmas, and I hated it. And she was wearing this outfit that reminded me of that. That's the only other outfit I called out this season, so I felt like I had to add a best outfit for Julia.

Well, you know, it's really unusual to see Julia in a print.

Yeah. Yeah. Usually she's solids and, like, sometimes, like a color block moment. She really likes very organized solids, too.

There was that one belt they love to put her in, like, a, like, whatever skirt and the cross belt.

Hence, almost like a pencil skirt and the crisscross belts. Yeah, she wore it, like, every episode for season three or season four or something. And it made some appearances this season, actually.

Yeah. I mean, I do love a belted skirt, but they did that one a lot.

A lot. It became a. It was her signature belt. It was a signature accessory. Sorry. That was my addition.

Oh, no, I liked it. Thank you. I wish I had an outfit, but I. Well, I did mention that in the Mary Jo episode that I liked her fashion show outfit, so. There you go.

There you go.

Salina says her physical humor was very funny this season

Funniest moments up to three or you're zagging so will you be sharing one or seven?

I have four.

Oh, love it.

I felt like it was close enough to three. So episode, one. It was mostly the delivery of this. This one, she says, I mean, what would possess me to risk everything I own on a game I don't even know how to play? I mean, have I been crazy for some time now, or did I just go insane after arriving here? And finally, and maybe most poignantly, where are my shoes? This was after the poker game, obviously, after everybody was drunk. Anthony's on the couch with a ice pack on his head. I just thought her delivery was so funny. That was a delightful line for me.

I like it.

how many do you have?

Three. And a, observation.

These enlighten me.

I suppose I can start with the observation. I was sort of alluding to this in the previous category, but I just think they really leaned into her as like the quote unquote, straight man this season. And so she was more the reaction to others doing funny things around her. Her. Or they chose to play up her vulnerable moments, getting older, going through menopause, emotions around the men in her life. Ah. And I was just going to say that that might be our loss. When I look at her funny moments, which are some good physical comedy too. including like one of the. It was actually one of my funniest moments of the season, so I didn't include it here. But when she does the impression of a man making easy tasks difficult. So I thought that was really good. I'll go ahead and say too Gone with the whim, episode 21, because this is also physical comedy. When she slid down that banister is Scarlet.

Yes. That was glorious.

I think that was one of that actually, in retrospect, might be. Even though that episode was not for me, might be like a top season, maybe a top series moment for her because it's so out of character and unexpected and I just, I really enjoyed that. what other funny moments do you have?

Well, I was gonna say real quick to your observation, it's interesting that you think they leaned into her as the straight man in previous seasons. Who do you think that was?

Her.

It was her. It was her, right?

Okay. It was just maybe amped up this.

Season like everybody else. Funhouse mirrored.

One of the criticisms I've seen of this season is that Julia, who's normally so dignified and even keeled, was made so zany and engaged in such a wacky sort of way. So it's. She slid down a banister, she slid Down a banister. so I think that's a funny, I don't want to say disconnect, because it's not disconnect, but it's just a funny. Your perception versus this other perception that I had been reading out there.

Right.

I also agree with you. Her physical humor was very funny this season. And one of the ones that I really loved was in episode 14, again, wedding redux, set to the background of Dondi and the Toussaints. So BJ Kept saying, can you please stop calling them Dondi and the Two Sons? Because it sounds like a Motown group. But she was trying to pitch Anthony to let her do this wedding vowel renewal thing. All while the other women were behind her, like, do whopping and doing the dance. And she just gets right in there with them, while she's talking. I thought it was glorious.

I liked all of the times where they tried to sing in that one. Which is funny because, like, every other time. Well, it was also them dancing. It was really the trouble. Right?

Yeah, right, right. And all the other times I've seen it just make it stop. And I'm not usually a singy person either. Like, you break into song, and that annoys me. But this was just very. It was with purpose. What?

The best part that no one else knows is that we test our audio before we start. And I definitely started with a song, so.

And every time I'm like, no, no, no. Okay, try something different. Salina, give me a poem.

I sing a full song to you today at some point.

true.

But you like that.

Lucky, lucky me. Add some dance moves and some jazzy dance moves, and maybe I'll get into it.

You know, I'm gonna throw in some dance moves. You think this is my first time? You want me to go ahead and go with my next one?

Salina: I have several favorite Julia jokes. Taken Together, I thought was really funny

Okay, so episode 19, the woman who came to Sugar Bakers, Julia teaches Mrs. I mean, Beachum to waft into a room. and again, this might be one of those things where it was also. It was her doing it and it being so, like, sauntering or whatever. And then M. Mrs. Beachum's version. So clunky, you know, which is also me wafting into a room, by the way. Taken Together, I thought was, like, in an episode I didn't particularly care for.

Yeah.

Was really funny. What else do you have?

I have in episode two, Sex and the Single Woman, she was talking about the halls. Who are, like, routine clients of Sugar Bakers. And she says the halls are regular paid in Full customers who redecorate as often as they change their hair color. We don't have to like them. We don't have to respect them. Think of it as ministering to the needs of the taste impaired. I thought that was. It was early in the season, and it was enough to warrant a spot in my notes as a funniest line for her. Because we've just heard over and over again about these halls and how quirky they are. And it was interesting to hear Julia just finally call it. Like, it was, like, it's a guaranteed paycheck. Just go with it.

Just do what they want.

Just do it.

That's right. It's witty. And I mean, and that's. And I think that's true of Julia a lot, too, is it's more witty lines than funny lines. And that they are different, you know, a different kind of humor.

Yeah.

My last one is episode 11, Too Dumb to Date. When she says, I say, if a man can have his bimbo, Mary Joe can have her dumbo. It's not very nice, but it did make me chuckle.

I forgot about that one. My last one was not actually something she directly said, but we got it replayed by Anthony. It was his retelling of her stance on the blight on humanity that is the answering machine. He says, you said they were crass and dehumanizing. If you wanted to talk to a machine, you'd whisper, speak nothings to your Dirt Devil. It sounds just like Julia to say that. I think she's also had a diatribe on answering machines before, so we know this is a touchy point for her.

Yes. With Charlene, I believe.

I think that's right. Charlene was trying to get him to change the message or something.

Or like she was trying to sound sexy for a new boyfriend or something.

Yeah.

Yeah. Did Dirt Devil still exist?

I hope so.

Huh?

You didn't just break something to me, did you?

I haven't seen one in a really long time. Yeah, get on that, will you?

Yes, it still exists, Salina. Oh, my gosh. What's wrong with you?

Maybe they just aren't red anymore. I've not seen them in 20 years.

Well, you haven't been to Walmart in.

20 years, which is crazy because it means I haven't seen one since I was just a baby.

I do wonder you're asking specifically about the hand vac, though. I'm sure. Walmart.com. the Dirt Devil Scorpion.

You're gonna get me one for my birthday?

Yes. Is that the right answer? I don't know.

Yes, how, much is this gag gift?

Yes. Fair points.

That's always something you really have to ask yourself with a gag gift.

And you know, much is, you know, I'm like committed to the bit. Like when I commit to something, I really go all in. So I would be like 600 later realizing like, it wasn't worth the bit. But I can't pull back. I've committed.

Right. Meanwhile, I would be like, let's go to lunch. You're like $10 and I'm just kidding. You can't get lunch for $10. So that's a, that in itself is a joke.

We've got the cringiest, most obnoxious moments

so we've got the cringiest, most obnoxious moments. What are yours?

I think I have five.

You have five? Let me go ahead and say off the top and I'm just going to hand it over to you. I actually really don't have any.

Shut up.

yeah, but here, talk. Yeah, but talk to me about it because I'll probably disagree with you.

In episode two, the ladies have a conversation about the word horny

Here we go. In episode two, Sex and the Single Woman M, the ladies have a conversation about the word horny, which Julia says she hates. So BJ asks her what she'd use instead. Well, out of curiosity, what word would you use? Well, I suppose. Sex starved. Salacious. Lascivious. Libidinously challenged. My question is, how is that better? Yeah, it was very cringy. It made me. Yeah, that's very uncomfortable.

At least three of those words I didn't care for at all.

Libidinously challenged.

Right. But do you see? Okay, I just want to say something really quickly. Now this is gonna be a little off topic, but not really.

Let's do it.

Because it is pertaining to Julia and this is the Julia episode. You see how she acted about the word horny? And then I want you to revisit the play where she was like having a fill up session through the window and fell asleep naked with him downstairs on the couch, knowing that they're coming into work the next day.

And this is the Designing Women play Salina and I went to see in Atlanta. And it's like Designing Women after Covid. When you first said it. I was thinking about a previous episode about a play and it got me thinking about that episode from last season, I think, where she and that lady went toe to toe in there. So I wanted to clarify for other people because I got lost.

They'll figure it out.

Very off character. They'll catch up eventually.

Go back and listen. I'm Kidding. I really wish you could see my face right now because sometimes I'm afraid that, like, what you're hearing doesn't match my face.

It doesn't translate. She's totally joking.

Yeah, totally joking. But I would love for you to.

Go back and look. We went to go see that place. Listen, please.

Oh, we saw it twice.

Oh, Lord of mercy. We did, didn't we?

Once virtually and once live. Different actors. So there you go.

Mary Jo had lots of obnoxious lines this season

okay, you got four more.

Episode three, Mary Jo versus the Terminator. like I said, she just had lots of obnoxious lines this season. This one was pretty bad as a matter of fact. Please send the letter exactly as you wrote it, complete with awkward syntax and fractured sentences. Lord knows my name isn't on it. I won't be the one who's embarrassed. An A hole thing to say to your friend.

Yeah, and also the fact that I didn't catch that makes me an a hole.

Yeah, Julia, you're right.

That's exactly how I would talk crappily to my friend. Then I'd kick him in the shit.

This is. I'd push him in the forehead. Then we had episode 16. as much as I do not want to get involved in this, it seems clear that any hope of BJ's having a successful date will depend upon my intervention.

And then she set her up on a terrible date.

She set her up on a date with a man twice. That's what I'm saying. It just felt very un. Julia. Yeah, part one of the series finale. This line really bothered me. I don't think so. Mary Jo, need I remind you that I am the sugar baker whose name is on the door? So this was when they were arguing over making decisions about the future of the business and Julia was pulling rank.

Yeah.

And it really bothered me because Mary Jo has put so much into the business over the years, and at some point I think they all were business partners anyway. And I don't remember any discussion about Julia being like a 90% owner, whereas everybody else was a 10% owner.

Yeah.

So that one. Really?

I agree. I also think that Sugar Bakers and Shively would sound really good.

It would.

and it actually, it turns out there was a cut line in this one. Refreshing my memory. Mary Jo, is this also something you found obnoxious?

The cut line?

No, it's not. Oh, and may I remind you that it was I that started this business with you. And perhaps it should be Sugar Baker and Shively and Daubert Whoa. There you go. You're on that, Salina.

And I was too lazy to look at the cut lines this season, so.

Not too lazy. Just cognizant of a good use of time versus a not good use of time. Then we.

No one's ever accused me of that, but go on.

Julia's complete refusal to believe that God was working through Mary Jo

And then my last one is episode 17. so this has to do with the facepalm moment. Julia's complete refusal to believe that God was working through Mary Jo. It wasn't just surprise. It was, like, downright refusal to believe it. God working miracles through Mary Jo? I don't think so. And then, well, if God were going to choose someone to work through, he might pick someone who was extremely devout, someone whose entire life has been a shining example of faith and virtue. And who am I? Julia Squeaky from. and then she said, Mary Jo, do you really believe that of all the people in the whole world, God has picked you? Little. The way she said that was particularly condescending. Little Mary Jo Shively.

Oh, you're right. I forgot about that.

And then the.

Probably because I refuse to go back and watch the episode.

Yeah. I got you. I got you, girl.

Yeah, no, that was really bad. And I would like to say that as someone who knows very little about the Bible, I was very much so under the impression that God often used people who you wouldn't expect, because that would be a good lesson. Mary Magdalene springs to mind automatically.

So I'm saying, Julia don't know nothing.

Yeah.

I've been waiting all season for this category with her. So thank you for that moment.

You're welcome. I wanted you to have it all to yourself, too.

I was so frustrated because, like, Julia's always been a little bit like this. And I think to that point you were making earlier about. We've talked about it this whole season. I don't want to belabor the point, but the fun house version. This, was the really unfun fun house version of that particular aspect of her personality. And it was already something that triggered me a little bit. So when they really leaned into it this season, particularly watching her gang up on someone like Mary Jo, I was so irritated by that.

Yeah, that's obviously, I'm all angry thinking about being called little.

Sorry. That's a trigger for you. It is a trigger for you as a little person. It should be, hello, person. As a Lily Fusion.

do you know how hard it is to lie on your license to say you're 5:2 when you're not quite 5:2.

I imagine it's something akin to putting 125 pounds when you're not 125 pounds.

Do you think I'm 110?

It actually goes pretty quick. They don't verify.

I beg an officer of the law to try and say that. Do you think anyone has ever argued, argue with a woman over the weight on her license? Do they want to live or do they want to die? That is what I thought every time that I have looked someone at the DMV in the eye and said true. 110. 98 pounds, 125.

And I'm entertaining. No questions about that.

Now I'm off to get a donut. You have anything to say about that?

It's so true.

Now I want a donut. So.

Fair point.

Can't have one. Okay, most socially or culturally important plot. What you got?

I have two.

Me too. You think they're the same ones?

I don't know. We'll find. Let's find out. I don't think so. So this one was a relatively minor plot point, but one that really resonated with me. Especially like when I was taking my notes. I jotted this down and I think even when I went back to look at it because some, some it doesn't feel like it all the time. But I do go back at hm, my notes and I don't say everything I wrote down. There's been a fair amount that I'm like, what were you thinking? What were you doing at 5:00am? writing this down.

BJ: Julia made a comment about women's health research

But this one comes back to me. So it was an episode 5 screaming passages. It was a comment Julia made about women's health research. So BJ shared that she's had a lot of money and plans to spend it, to keep her time from ever coming, AKA I'm going to spend a lot of money to keep from getting old. And Julia says you do better directing your money toward research. These so called experts know very precious little about women's health. They don't do diddly, they don't do diddly about women's health. Did you see that report about the effects of aspirin on heart attack? The study used no women. Heart disease is the number one killer of women. So I did a super quick googsie, because this all feels very familiar to me. So I wanted to point out that she, the one woman she's talking about at the National Institutes of Health who does research on women. She said that because in 1993 Congress wrote an inclusion policy into federal Law. When passing some legislation related to nih, the policy made a specific call to include women and, quote, minorities in clinical research. It sounds like excluding women had little to do with potential negative outcomes during pregnancy, which is something that oftentimes gets floated. Like, we don't want to test it on women, because what if the outcome is bad for the baby? Like, she doesn't know she's pregnant and it affects her baby? It had more to do with the cost of extending studies to include women. And then, of course, the unspoken deprioritization of women.

I'm sorry, I don't understand.

That's not registering for you. All right, so back up. America hates women. but I think it resonated with me because I remember learning while I was pregnant that there's a lot about childbirth that we don't know and certainly a lot about the impact of medication and vitamins and things during pregnancy because we just refuse to do this research. so one of the things that I thought was super fascinating was that, like, we don't even know what kicks off labor. The whole chain reaction that starts labor. We can't pinpoint what, like, hormone it is or what moment in the pregnancy kicks it off. Your body just sort of decides, right? Your body just sort of decides. Is it the spicy food? Is it the bouncing on a ball? We don't really know. That's fascinating to me. but I did find an article that said as recently as 2019, women accounted for roughly 40% of participants in clinical trials for three of the diseases that most affect women. Cancer, cardiovascular disease, and psychiatric disorders, despite representing 51% of the US population. And, I'll link to that in the show notes. And it goes on to explain that the partic. That the picture is like, particularly bleak for those of color. So that one felt particularly relevant.

So, good call out. And I do think, I do it really enjoy the way that this show slides. That kind of information is. It's so important. And I. It's. I gotta say something that's really sad. I'm surprised it's that high because the percentage that are women that are included.

40 in trials.

and, because I think I've heard maybe I was listening to Armchair Expert or something and they had somebody on and they were talking about how woefully, like, low the amount of women in research was to this day and everything.

Yeah.

And so, yeah, that just. It really resonates. And I don't know, again, like you said, it's awesome being A woman.

It just is. But 40% is higher than, whatever it was in 1993 that made them pass this bill because it must have been close to zero.

That's really tough. So it's interesting.

Designing Women tackles menopause in episode five

This would have been in screening passages.

That's right.

Okay, so mine was also from screaming passages. This is episode five. I just think it's really singular for a show anytime, but especially then to talk about menopause. I imagine, you know, that TV networks or streaming platforms then even today get antsy about anything that might alienate audiences. And sadly, these very natural things seem to fall into that category. that's unfortunate because TV can be, like we were just saying, it can be a catalyst for education and ensuring people don't feel alone. And this is really where Designing Women excelled. Even if they did seem to back off of those kinds of things in the latter seasons. I think about something like perimenopause for, you know, for, For instance, like, for those who don't know, because I don't want to just assume everybody does. This is the stage that leads up to menopause and can last up to 10 years. And it can cause irregular periods, reduced fertility, and fluctuations in estrogen and progesterone levels. And I just feel like a lot of friends of mine, people that I know, wind up realizing that's what's been going on, and they just think they're, like, losing it, you know, because it does. It can cause a lot of, shifts, like, in your emotions and things like that as well. And then your body just doesn't feel like your body anymore.

It's like that thing that. I make jokes about this a lot. I won't say everyone, but I make jokes about this a lot where I'll be like, I'm just so cranky this week. Like, I don't know what's going on. I must have not slept well last night. I must have not taken care of myself. Well, blah, blah, blah. Then come to find out it's pms. And, like, no matter how many times I go through this, I never process that's what it is. I do think that is would be a useful area of research to expand is looking at women's hormonal patterns. So I really liked my OB gyn. she was a nurse practitioner. So the practice I went to, I really liked them. But what she said to me was, I don't want to focus on your hormones, because women's hormones shift all the time. So I could take your levels today and tomorrow. They could be so vastly different depending on where you are in the. In your cycle, that it might not tell us anything. And, like, I didn't love that answer.

Right. Because it might look closer at that.

But it might tell us something. You know what I mean? Like, it might tell me something today. So, yeah, I think we. We need to understand that, and I think that may be where we're headed next, because I do think, perimenopause taking up such a segment of your life when you're not expecting it. Yeah.

Or up to 10 years. So, I mean, that's. That's a long time. So, like, we're not talking about it nearly enough. We're not talking about it openly enough. You know, what are the medical advancements? I don't know anything about it. So it's going to be a real crash course for me. You know, you know, what. What can people trust, I think is also really important. And so I. I found a couple of articles. I didn't want to necessarily go on for 25 minutes or anything about it like that, but a couple of articles for people who are interested. And, there's also another article that we'll link to, and it talks about the grandmother hypothesis. I had just recently learned about this, like, prior to seeing it in this article again, which is basically where older women are favored by evolution because they enhance human survival. So apparently there's only two mammals that go through menopause. It's us. And do you know the other one thinking.

I'm thinking no.

Bears, Whales.

Whales. That's what I said. I was gonna say. This is a runner, because I was thinking. I was thinking of marine creatures. And as the word was coming to my mouth, I was like, yeah, that's not a mammal. Whales. That's what I said.

Whales.

Whales. Bear. Whales. Bear. Whales.

That's what I said. Well, there's probably a bear. Well, out there.

Okay, hold on. Help me understand. So.

Oh, okay. Well, I'm not a scientist, so let's see how far I can get.

Older women are. What did you say?

They're more favored by evolution because they enhance human survival. So I think, if I'm recalling the article correctly, like, they are able to pass down information and things to the next generations, even though they don't. They're not procreating anymore. So, like, they're, The idea with other animals and other species is, like, they just die off once they're not reproducing anymore.

God bless.

and, well, I guess I would be dead Already? Because I never did my duty.

Well, you still have a chance to do your duty as an Elder Stateswoman.

Salina: Women are, uh, awesome. And everybody agrees with that when you talk to them individually

No. Okay. I thought you meant the other thing. I was like, I don't think so.

I mean, you can. I don't know. I don't know. You're. I don't know your business, Salina. but you could be an Elder Stateswoman. That is fascinating to me. I. And this is why I think I get so. In addition to being a woman, why I get so annoyed that women aren't more highly prized and valued. Because the other thing that's amazing is that, like, your genetic code is influenced as far back as your grandmother or your great grandmother, and the trauma that she endured is built into your genetic code.

Yes. Like, you are in your grandmother the.

Day she's born, and you are there.

Until your mother is born. And that is amazing.

That's wild, right?

Women are, awesome. Mother Nature says so.

And everybody agrees with that when you talk to them individually. I mean, not every human on Earth, but most people you talk to will say, my mom is the best. My grandma was the best. My aunt was amazing. My mom's best friend, my mom's podcast partner. She was incredible. She was such an amazing Elder stateswoman. and they say that, but then they don't live it out.

Yeah.

What happens there?

Love us that M might be our next podcast. We'll just go full feminist. We can call the next one Feminazi, and I don't even care.

Oh, I thought you were gonna go with Elder Stateswoman, but okay. Yours is.

Oh, no, yours is better.

Certainly more appropriate.

Certainly. Well, maybe more approachable.

But that episode, screaming Passages, had a lot of layers.

It definitely did. And I'll be honest, it wasn't necessarily my favorite episode, but I really super duper admired it. and I admire the bravery. And I. It's weird things. Like, I was thinking back, and I was like, julia should, like. Her performance was great. Those moments didn't ring funny for me, though, because it was more scary for me. You know, I was like a glimpse.

Into the future, a window into the next 10 to 20 years.

I'm, like, 10 to 20 years or last Tuesday? I don't know.

I just don't know.

You never cry. Laughed before Nicky Mays. Tell the truth and shame the devil. Do it right now.

Julia makes airport employee cry in episode 12 of The Odyssey

What was your other, most important plot?

Possibly another feminist theme?

I'm not on my show.

I'm calling it the Karen concept. So is Julia the OG Karen? My evidence is her Making the airport employee cry in episode 12, the Odyssey. So after the agent told her he was at the helpfulest point he could have been after a 14 hour shift, she responded, well, I have slept upright and slack jawed in a lounge all night. This is not as impatient as I get. And then went on a proper rant after the airline went belly up saying, listen to me, agent Richard of Transglobal Airlines. I have been traveling, if you could call it that, for the last 17 hours. I am starved. I am stranded and I am beyond tired. My back is twisted, my feet are killing me. I have not bathed. I have an extremely expensive ball gown I've been waiting for 12 long years to wear. Make no mistake about it, Agent Richard, I am going to Washington. If I have to kick off these shoes, claw my way across the counter and connect your head permanently to that computer, you are flying me to Washington. If you don't have an airplane, I suggest you start flapping your wings. And then he cried. She made him cry.

Well, one could argue that one person's Karen is another person's hero.

That is true. That is true.

I tell you one thing, I won't be clipping that for social media. I don't need that kind of attack. I still have, I have like a grain of self esteem left and I need to hang on to it with two. Two hands.

Well, you have nothing to do with any of this. That's all LBT and her crew.

LBT was barely around.

True.

That's true for this one.

I thought the power imbalance with her art teacher was really interesting

So, my second one was New Julia New York Morning again, just episode 15 in case people are trying to remember which one that is. So her relationship with her art teacher Nigel is a great example of like the power imbalance that exists and how that can be detrimental to the person and with lesser position and lesser power. This is something we've talked about before on the show, but it's definitely something that's coming up here. I also thought the regression that we see with her was really interesting. This sudden inability to speak up for herself for much of the episode. This is the same woman that you just said what you said that she said at the counter at the airline. You know what I'm saying? She said what she said. but it feels like I think there is a real truth to that because I do think that happens to people who have been in. It may not be like your the most standard definition of like an abuse, but it is a shade of abuse. And I think when people have been through those situations, they do make. Not every time, but they can have that regression. So I think building that into that moment is very helpful for a viewer who might be going through. Through the same thing. And again, this is like her being able to take her power back, which I spoke to earlier, that's a really important thing. For someone going through a similar situation or could find themselves in a similar situation, I think that's a very important thing to be able to see and be able to see like what's right and what's wrong and how you can protect yourself when you've been put in an uncomfortable position like that.

Yeah, that's a good call.

So I really thought we were going to have overlapping ones.

that's how creative we are, how.

We'Re just, just doing it. You know what I'm saying?

Just doing that thing.

I give Julia three out of five for this season

So, speaking of doing it, would you like to rate this thing? Oh, yes, this lady.

Yes, sorry.

I'm, used to episodes still all.

This time later I went with Airport Grandstands as a Nod to episode 12, the Odyssey. So I'm giving Julia three out of five. And I'm looking at that now and wondering if that was overly generous. But she had enough cringy moments for me that this was, this was a tough season and it sort of fell apart a little bit for me in terms of like, I've always been able to see sort of the balance of Julia. That whole thing of like accepting people as they are, blah, blah, blah, you can't change them. So like knowing that she's opinionated, knowing that she, like we were joking about earlier, as long as it's her way, she's fine. Like there's a piece of that where you're like, oh, that's like lovely. I, I love that about. I love that for her, not for me, but I can live with it. But there was enough that was like not offsetting it, I guess, where it just left me not loving her this year, and just made for not a good watch, I guess is the bottom line. So three out of five airport grandstands.

Fair enough. So I gave it 3.8 out of five. Fits of ragey, but also really sad, while maybe also happy hormone induced laugh cries because, hey, we've all been there. Can't say that one three times fast. But that thing you just heard, that's the rating scale.

I was like, can you say that one more time?

Yeah, I feel like, no, no. I think that she had some setbacks and uncertainties this season with relationships, but ultimately is like Maybe still with Philip. She's not not with him. There wasn't a breakup.

There's no break.

So, the on the maybe front. It's also kind of nice of the show, m this that she showed more of a sensitive, vulnerable side. I would argue that it takes a different kind of strength than walking into a room every time with guns blazing. She had some close calls with the business and we've talked about that, but ultimately they figured it out by the end. So all in all, I think in terms of like, how her character did. I think her character had a pretty good season. Mileage may vary on how I felt. that would probably be a different score for me about how I felt about my final, final season with Julia.

So next episode we're going to talk about. It'll be our series finale next episode. Then we're going to talk about, Women of the House, the very short, I say very short Delta Burke, series that followed the end of Designing Women. in the meantime, we'd love everyone to follow along with us and engage instagram and Facebook. Eetntv. We're on TikTok. Sweettvpod, YouTube, sweettv7371. You can email us sweettvpodmail.com and our website is www.sweettv.com. lots of ways you can support the show. You can tell your family and friends about us or rate and review the podcast wherever you listen. And then there is a support us tab on the website where you can go to support us.

You can rate us.

You, can't like hi, just rate us. Don't give us none of these 3.5 airport grandstands or semi cry laugh breakdowns. No, we need a full on five.

Oh, maybe that's our problem. We just shouldn't always be rating everything fives.

Yes, maybe. Oh. Ah, yeah. So we just set it in people's brain.

Yeah. Do the rain.

I give it a five.

Do the writing. It's helpful. but Thursday, before we get into any of those other things I just talked about, we're going to do an extra sugar on Dixie Carter's 1996 book, Trying to Get to Heaven. Opinions of a Tennessee Talca.

Well, you know what that means.

What does it mean, Salina?

It means we'll see you around the bend. Bye.