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Designing Women S2 E6 - We Meet the King of Southern Softcore

Updated: Aug 14, 2023

Ah, another one of Suzanne’s exes. This time it’s Dash Goff, the writer, and he’s sad, but he perks himself by individually meeting with each cast member. By the end, we all learn a few things: 1) Suzanne was a terrible spouse (?), 2) reading is important, and 3) Dash sure knows how to write some uncomfortable stuff about Southern women.

Stick around for this week’s ‘Extra Sugar’ to discuss Dash IRL, Gerald McRaney and his marriage to the one, the only: Ms. Delta Burke.

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Come on, let’s get into it!



Salina: Hey, Nikki.

Nikki: Hey, Selena.

Salina: And hello, everyone.

Salina: And hello and welcome to the Sweet Tea and TV podcast.

Nikki: I was hoping you to remember this time to say it because now it's going to be in my head forever that we don't introduce our podcast.

Salina: I tried to pull on my best NPR voice.

Salina: It's not very good.

Salina: I don't know what that was.

Nikki: I don't know what voice that is.

Salina: I don't either, but I can't wait to hear it in Q A.

Salina: I'm sure I'll want to vomit afterwards.

Salina: So I'm really sorry, everybody.

Salina: We're going to jump right in because I want to get to this proof survey before we get into season two, episode six, Dashkoff the Writer, because I'm not ready yet.

Salina: Let's start easy.

Salina: Okay, I've looked at the questions.

Salina: I don't know if these will be easy or not, so you tell me.

Salina: Oh, God, this one's terrible.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: Which living person do you most despise?

Nikki: Oh, my God.

Salina: While you think I'm going to do.

Nikki: A little I already know the answer.

Salina: Oh, you already know?

Nikki: I'm just trying to decide if I.

Salina: Want to say it out loud.

Salina: Isn't that always the thing?

Nikki: Yeah, you go first.

Salina: I didn't know that the filler would be an answer.

Salina: So this will prove to you that I am trying really hard not to think of answers ahead of time because I don't have one.

Salina: So first of all, I really hate the idea of despising anyone, even though I don't like plenty of people.

Salina: It's the word despise.

Salina: You know, I get hung up on the words.

Nikki: No, I think words have meaning.

Nikki: They mean something.

Nikki: I think despise is a heck of a lot nicer than hate.

Nikki: Wish were eradicated from the Earth.

Nikki: Could live without ever seeing again.

Salina: Oh, well, despise was kind, okay, but live without ever seeing again.

Salina: Now we're both stalling for time.

Salina: Live without ever seeing again doesn't mean you hope they're dead.

Salina: It just means you hope they don't come around you.

Nikki: So maybe with all due respect to Mr.

Nikki: Proust, what if we reword the question to is this better or worse?

Nikki: What is a person living who you find to be despicable?

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: Is that Trump?

Salina: Oh, look, she just threw it on down there.

Salina: She just whack.

Nikki: I think there's something incredibly dangerous about having that level of influence and that level of social power and using it for what?

Nikki: Equates to evil.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: And I think ego can be very dangerous.

Salina: Oh, I agree that ego can be incredibly dangerous.

Salina: And I think it's imperative for all of us to try to keep our egos in check because anybody can be.

Nikki: It can get out of control so fast.

Nikki: And it's just when you have that level of influence and you have that platform, you can't afford for your ego to drive every decision you make.

Nikki: I know that people get to that level by having an ego, though.

Nikki: You have to have some level of an ego that keeps you going when other people are telling you they don't care for you or they don't agree with you.

Salina: Well, we've talked before about how you have to have a lot of ego, really to maybe we didn't use the word ego, but I think that's true to go on to become president right.

Salina: Or be in any major political power situation or even any authority, so even being like a police officer, I think you have to have a certain mentality.

Salina: So I don't know, I feel like mine's more broad, which I feel like I'm about to be raked over to the coles.

Salina: For me, it's not a person.

Salina: We have so much editing to do and by we I mean Nikki.

Salina: For me it's more of like anyone who tries to put their power over on anyone.

Salina: Like I don't care where you are in the world, if you're trying to put your power over on someone else, if you are actively trying to make other people's lives worse by making yours better, like wherever you sit on any corner of this globe, then I would put you in the category of despicable.

Salina: And I think we could put it in despise, but you want like a specific person.

Nikki: So I was going to say I feel like as I'm hearing you answer these questions, I'm running for office feel.

Nikki: Yes.

Nikki: And you are finding the loophole to not answer the question.

Nikki: You are finding very interesting ways of answering them without actually calling people out.

Nikki: Yeah, but I don't want to put you in an uncomfortable spot the way you do me weekly with these questions.

Nikki: So I'm going to be kind and I'm going to say, okay, I've got one.

Salina: It's really anyone who tries to divide people, but I think this is a good example.

Nikki: This person grinds your gears like an Alex Jones type.

Salina: Oh, these are the kinds of people I just can't understand or wrap my head around, where you're clearly getting a ton of crazy sponsorships.

Salina: And this is what I'm talking about.

Salina: Anyone who just spreads hate and fear and I just cannot stand it.

Salina: So if you can put any of these people in this category and for me, for some reason, it's just so like all that rhetoric is so ridiculous and gets people so jazzed up and further divides different pockets.

Nikki: To what end?

Nikki: It doesn't serve a useful purpose.

Nikki: Which is?

Nikki: I think we're on the exact same page with different people.

Nikki: It's the same concept.

Salina: One person was on another person's show, I don't know what's question number two.

Salina: We're just winning hearts and minds today.

Salina: Thanks.

Salina: Proust.

Salina: No, I'm just kidding.

Nikki: Sorry, I'm just being honest.

Salina: No, I think that's what this is about is to be honest.

Salina: I wanted to just give one example, but I will just say seriously, if you fall in that line, then you are someone I have no use for.

Salina: So I don't know if that's nicer or meaner than despise, but I almost am at the point of indifference because I almost have to take that kind of person and put them in a box.

Salina: And that's hard for me, too, because at the same time, it's really hard for me.

Salina: I try not.

Salina: One of the reasons that I don't appreciate this question proust is because there's so much us and them everywhere right now, and this is not new.

Salina: I know people are like, anytime that people say, these are the worst times, I'm like, we used to get in big groups, and we put two people in the center or more than two people, and then we let them battle to the death.

Salina: So I would just say that maybe humans have always sucked.

Nikki: Yeah, okay.

Salina: So just to varying degrees, we win some, we lose some.

Salina: In some ways, we get better.

Salina: In some ways, we get worse.

Salina: So I don't like to do the time comparisons too much, but anyway, it's just really hard for me to do the US versus them stuff.

Salina: It's not hard, but I try so hard not to do it, because I think the more we do that, we stop trying to see each other, and we're only seeing ourselves.

Nikki: What I think is unfortunate about me naming Donald Trump is, I think, in the world we're in right now, donald Trump is sometimes considered like, the face of conservatives, and so he is like the lightning rod for more liberal viewpoints to say, see, this is what's wrong with the conservatives.

Nikki: I don't think he is representative of a lot of conservatives, though.

Nikki: And so I want to be super clear that I think what you said, your description of the type of person, the archetype of the person that you have no use for I think for me, in the last few years, he's come to represent that.

Nikki: And that's my problem with him, that he seems sometimes to exist solely to divide us, rather than to say like, this is what I believe.

Nikki: I'm sorry you don't believe it, but here's why I believe it.

Nikki: Here's a really good rationale for why I believe it.

Nikki: And we just agree to disagree.

Nikki: He's not capable of doing that.

Nikki: He wants to dig in and say, like, you disagree with me, so you're an idiot.

Nikki: And I just think that's the problem.

Nikki: I can't stand it.

Nikki: I cannot stand it.

Nikki: Now I'm all riled up.

Salina: Less egomaniacs.

Salina: That's what we need.

Nikki: Yes, man, that's it.

Salina: So this one's we're gonna we're gonna do, like, thank God.

Salina: Total 180.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: Total 180.

Salina: Which words or phrases do you most overuse?

Nikki: Oh, you know, my five year old has started saying literally, which makes me wonder if I maybe use the word literally a little too much.

Nikki: Literally, dude.

Nikki: Like and it's sort of people say this a lot.

Nikki: There's actually research behind where the phrase sort of like, when you're in conversation and you say sort of something that actually comes from a recent point in time, I think it started in the UK and it has infiltrated the English language.

Nikki: And now it is a filler word, like or like it's in that same vein.

Nikki: I use it all the time.

Salina: I like anything about like I do too.

Salina: Word study.

Nikki: Me too.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: Guess it makes sense.

Salina: So for me, hands down, just I will go through and look at things that I've written and just is in every other sentence.

Salina: And then I think mine changes depending.

Nikki: On can I pause you on Just?

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: Do you know there's a science behind that too?

Nikki: There's a theory behind it, which is it is no, but I think it's something to be aware of.

Nikki: Okay.

Nikki: A lot of women use just and it is a word used to justify your perspective on something.

Nikki: And so it's a defense mechanism for justifying how you feel.

Nikki: So it is.

Nikki: I saw something recently on this where they were saying, dang it.

Nikki: When you're at work, when you're use.

Salina: It there all the time in a.

Nikki: Business setting and you say, I just think take the word just out.

Nikki: You can probably arguably take out, I think, and just state it as a fact, because in your mind it's a fact.

Nikki: And that is like, if you want credibility.

Nikki: So I think we should do X, say we should do X for X, Y and Z reason and take out the I think that's a given.

Nikki: It doesn't add any credibility to you.

Nikki: In fact, what is more credible is standing behind your thought process and just has become that filler word for I just think, whatever, and you can just take it out.

Salina: That's interesting.

Salina: I think we've talked about this off the air before, but when you say things like, I'm just going to be honest with you, it sort of implies unintentionally, that normally you're lying, which isn't what might be the case, because we learned in another episode that the average person tells 200 lies a day.

Nikki: It's true.

Salina: But if we get away from that for a second, it just sort of implies that you're not normally honest.

Salina: So it's like not a really good thing to say, but I do catch myself doing that one as well.

Salina: And it also is a thing about trusting yourself.

Nikki: I honestly never thought about I'll be honest with you that way.

Nikki: And in recent years, I knew someone who says that all the time and starts sentences with I'll be honest with you.

Nikki: And it was someone else kind of in that circle who pointed out to me, like, you see that?

Nikki: That sounds like they're implying they're lying otherwise.

Nikki: And I was like, I've never thought that.

Nikki: I just sort of see it as like see, there's sort of I see it as like a I don't like a filler, like a way to start a sentence.

Nikki: I never thought of that.

Nikki: So now I'm super conscientious about that one, too.

Salina: I just got home from vacation, and my mom and I were talking and she was like, can I like as one, too?

Salina: But she said to me, she said, you've said actually, like, a lot since we've started talking.

Salina: And she was like, I'm worried that maybe you're doing this at work.

Salina: And I was like, hey, okay, I'll worry about that.

Salina: But I felt really bad.

Nikki: I'm really worried you're killing the English language with that word, so I'm going to stop you right now, possibly.

Salina: But it's because I was going to say part of mine is it sort of depends on who I've been around.

Salina: Because if I'm around someone and they say words a lot, I might unintentionally pick it up and then I'm saying it a lot.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: So I think they were saying actually a lot, and then I brought it home with me.

Salina: Oh, good.

Nikki: We're just a product of our environment, aren't we?

Salina: So that's a little better in terms of questions.

Nikki: It is, and I feel like this question is actually a really nice transition into this episode, which is all about a writer, dash Goff the writer.

Nikki: In fact, it's so much quicker than me.

Salina: Nikki, go on.

Salina: Take us into this episode.

Nikki: So the Hulu episode description for this one is suzanne's ex husband, writer Dash Goff, turns up in her life just in time to announce that he is contemplating suicide.

Nikki: The IMDb description.

Nikki: Suzanne's ex husband, novelist Dash Goff, is depressed because his latest book, Being Belled, has failed to sell to either the movies or TV or to go into paperback.

Nikki: This aired October 26, 1987.

Nikki: And for once, I have a reaction to the episode description, like a strong one.

Nikki: Okay, so that IMDb description was a really good one.

Nikki: I really like that.

Nikki: Hulu's description says he announces he's contemplating suicide.

Nikki: He never said that.

Salina: I know.

Salina: It's my first general reaction.

Salina: Okay, I was going to ask you, like, did I miss something or were we watching two different shows and I didn't find it in any of the cut lines.

Nikki: I feel like this is not to be dramatic, but that's dangerous.

Nikki: Suicide is very triggering for some people.

Salina: Right.

Salina: So how did someone walk away with that?

Nikki: So I don't know why they said announces.

Nikki: Now Suzanne seems to allude to the fact that he's considering suicide.

Nikki: She says, not that I couldn't give Dash a reason for living myself.

Nikki: That is the closest to a suicide mention that we get.

Salina: Still not really.

Nikki: It's a little bit of a leap.

Nikki: So I just had such a strong when I first read this episode description, and actually somewhere maybe like when we were prepping for season two, we might have even said, we're going to cover suicide this season.

Nikki: And I think it would have been.

Salina: Based on this description that's coming in another episode.

Nikki: Okay.

Nikki: Thank God.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: Because I was like, this is not what I would base I was waiting.

Salina: For you to be like, Selena, you totally missed it.

Salina: And so okay, that is really weird.

Nikki: And then this is kind of not super relevant, but a subplot they left out is that Anthony's supposed to be writing a book report for school on The Great Gatsby.

Nikki: And that's relevant because, one, it's how he and Dash connect, but it's also the mechanism for bringing all the characters together at the end for their study club, which I feel like is sort of an important point in the show, in my opinion.

Salina: Oh, that's going to maybe inform a lot of comments I have.

Nikki: Okay, well, those are the two thoughts I had on the episode description.

Nikki: So this one was written by LBT.

Nikki: We have a different director this time.

Nikki: This is David trainor.

Salina: What are you trying to recall?

Nikki: Is David the one?

Nikki: Yes.

Nikki: Like, I can never remember.

Salina: He did that 70 show.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: Okay.

Nikki: In Trivia, which is also relevant to this week's Extra Sugar, dash Goff is played by Gerald McRaney, who winds up marrying Delta Burke in 1989.

Nikki: So this week's Extra Sugar is going to be all about their marriage.

Nikki: Well, not all about their marriage, but the marriage pieces that I could find.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: Looking forward to it.

Salina: Can't wait to learn more.

Nikki: So we have a Goof, which I'm going to admit, if Selena hadn't put this here, I would never have gotten this.

Nikki: Nehru was referenced as the President of India, but he was in fact the prime minister.

Salina: That's a real highbrow.

Nikki: It led me to googling the difference between a president and a prime minister.

Nikki: I'll just be honest with you.

Salina: It's just another kind of democracy, you know what I'm saying?

Nikki: So general reaction.

Salina: Well, you got my first one, which was about wait, where was the suicide mission?

Salina: Really?

Nikki: Because my first one is let's just.

Salina: Get out of the way.

Nikki: I didn't like this episode.

Salina: Oh, yeah, the old standby.

Salina: General reaction.

Nikki: I had to watch it three times.

Nikki: We've mentioned before, we watch these episodes a lot.

Nikki: Oh, my God.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: My don't like on this one was the episode.

Salina: I have some issues with it as well we'll get into.

Salina: But yeah, this was not a favorite for me.

Salina: One thing that I wanted to say about and okay, for the record, because Julia seemed very upset about Mary Jo doing any of that work, maybe he'd have more time for his school report if he wasn't running everyone's personal errands all the time.

Nikki: Good points.

Salina: That really bothered me.

Nikki: Good catch.

Nikki: Stop using Anthony.

Nikki: Hashtag justice for Anthony.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: Free Anthony.

Salina: Gosh.

Salina: I don't want to skip over, though, like, what are general reactions you had?

Nikki: I'm sort of starting to wonder if I'm all out of order on this one.

Nikki: So I don't really care.

Nikki: I'm just going to jump right in.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: Is Dash Goff based on someone?

Nikki: Is he an archetype of, like, a Southern author, maybe?

Nikki: All of his descriptions of people in the episode were super sensual and mildly creepy, and I wrote them down.

Salina: Oh, yeah.

Nikki: I started writing down the ones that gave me the biggest heebie GB's and then realized I think I wrote them all down.

Nikki: So the entry in the book referencing Julia, his sister in law former sister in law, but at some point his sister in law, she says, well, there was one passage about a woman who ran a perpetual temperature from cool porcelain to hot steel and could fan a fire with a quick sachet of her walk.

Salina: Oh, weird.

Nikki: That means he's, like, imagining her hindquarters bouncing back and forth.

Nikki: It's just weird.

Salina: And now we're all imagining her hind quarters charlene.

Nikki: She was all cotton candy and pink champagne legs that stretched out for five or 6 miles.

Nikki: Poor sweet Mary Jo.

Nikki: What did she do to deserve this one?

Nikki: I would say that Mary Jo is part calico choir girl and part satin dance hall doll with amber eyes and a dash of hellcat red in her hair.

Nikki: The kind of woman a man wants in his bedroom when he'sick and in his bed when he's not.

Salina: Yeah, everything was, like, hypersexual.

Salina: I mean, none of it's, like, pornographic or anything, but it's like, I would be really uncomfortable if anybody read that back to me.

Salina: I don't think I'd be flattered.

Salina: I would be more like, okay.

Nikki: And all of the women seem to really love it.

Nikki: So I think a few things may be at play here.

Nikki: One, I am super uptight.

Nikki: I acknowledge this about myself.

Nikki: First things first.

Nikki: My lens, for which I see all of this is like, I can imagine nothing worse in the world than someone describing me as having hellcat red in my hair or part satin doll or whatever.

Nikki: I don't even know what's.

Salina: All physical stuff, right?

Salina: That's the other thing.

Nikki: Right.

Salina: I think we're at a point it doesn't mean that you can't say a woman is beautiful, but we also need to say that she's kind, right.

Salina: And she's smart.

Nikki: So this is .2.

Nikki: So .1 is I'm a weirdo, and this just makes me very uncomfortable.

Nikki: I blush.

Nikki: I'm getting all sweaty thinking about it again, so I'm weird.

Nikki: Part two, though, is I wonder if this is a product of the time.

Nikki: And I wonder if this is just different than what I would expect.

Nikki: The fact that he did the same description, some form of the same description for every woman feels like there's a little bit of a pattern here.

Nikki: And so that's what makes me wonder, is he based on someone?

Nikki: Is there like, a Southern romance novelist archetype?

Nikki: And that their whole thing was they focused on the unique femininity of women, which by and large, tends to be a comment on the way they appear what they look like.

Nikki: So maybe it's a product of its time and I'm holding it unfairly to today's standards.

Nikki: It was just every other scene was a weird description of one of our favorite ladies, and I did not enjoy it.

Salina: Yeah, well and it was just like, all like, he hasn't a scene with each one of them one by one.

Salina: So to me, I just felt like that was a very weird flow for an episode.

Salina: I think, on that note, I'll just go ahead and say this is a good point to say for that reason, being in the mix, what were we supposed to take away from this episode?

Salina: And that was what I couldn't figure out.

Salina: So I was getting, like, this strong undercurrent of reading is cool.

Salina: They needed us to know that.

Salina: It felt to me like some of it was made for the classroom, but they put a plot around it, like, hoping we wouldn't notice.

Salina: So this whole study club scene and that's why I said, oh, maybe it would have, like, if I had better understood that they were doing this specifically for oh, it felt to me more like Julia was like, I just miss Study Club.

Salina: And I was like, okay, first of all, who misses Study club?

Salina: That's a weird oh, my God, do you miss study club or something?

Salina: No.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: It's just the way you looked at me, I was like, I think they.

Nikki: Named it such a weird thing, book Club club.

Nikki: And I think lots of people love their book club.

Salina: Book club, but not study.

Salina: God, I miss studying.

Salina: That was my favorite thing from college, was studying.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: They could have called it, like, a reading group or, like, I don't know, a cocktail hour with books.

Salina: But it felt to me like we were getting and I don't actually disagree with this, but one of the things that they were talking about that felt like this was LBT.

Salina: Maybe about people losing their words.

Salina: But then we go around and we were practicing our words.

Nikki: God, are we?

Salina: I wrote one for you.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: Do you know how they sat there and they went around?

Nikki: They were like, I wish that had occurred to me.

Salina: Well, I almost said something to you, but to see if you wanted to do it, too.

Salina: Don't worry about it.

Salina: It's okay.

Salina: She was the kind of woman who could make a jingle that would stay with you all the day long and had a voice like an MPR reporter that had you thinking, Wait, tell me more.

Nikki: See, those are the sorts of descriptions I could have gotten behind if he had talked about their unique attributes that they contribute to the world.

Nikki: If he had talked about anything other than them being the kind of woman you want in your bed.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: And this gets back to what you were saying.

Salina: So this was one of my notes.

Nikki: Too, I'm going to play that description of myself to myself to build up my self esteem every night.

Salina: Oh, good.

Salina: I'm glad you liked it.

Salina: To your point about all of this writing being kind of like hypersensual or of I thought something was going to happen between him and Julia.

Salina: I did, too.

Salina: And then I was like, maybe something's going to happen between him and charlene.

Nikki: Maybe something's going to happen between him and Anthony.

Salina: That would have been the most exciting of know.

Salina: But I think the point was and we get this in a cut line but was for us to see it make suzanne a little oh, it's kind of like almost like a c plot, but like, why?

Salina: So I just thought that whole setup was really weird.

Salina: I had one other general reaction.

Salina: We kind of been bouncing around.

Salina: So I apologize for this, but I just wanted to see whether or not this resonated with you.

Salina: So one thing that dash says is he says everyone in everybody's family is a black sheep.

Salina: That's what being southern.

Salina: So okay, I'll take your eye.

Nikki: I don't even understand what it I.

Salina: Mean, so I think the whole black.

Nikki: Sheep of the family's not a black sheep.

Nikki: There is one black sheep.

Nikki: There can only be one.

Salina: There's just one.

Salina: That's uncle al.

Salina: He gets his own table.

Nikki: He doesn't get invited to thanksgiving.

Salina: Uncle al is in his ten full mean.

Salina: I was just wondering how that landed with you because I agree.

Salina: Then that kind of discounts the whole thing of what black sheep means.

Salina: This feels like a silly question.

Salina: Are we skipping over any other general observations or was your only general observation that you didn't like the show?

Nikki: That's it.

Nikki: Did you have straights I do have a few.

Nikki: We got an off the beam reference again.

Nikki: Third in australian.

Nikki: That's strange.

Nikki: I loved Suzanne's dress when she was at her house with dash.

Nikki: It was like an a line with a really full skirt.

Nikki: Probably one she's worn in another episode.

Nikki: Now that I'm thinking about it.

Nikki: While I was researching extra sugar, I actually found that dash goff was named after a real person from fayetteville, arkansas, who annie potts met while filming past the ammo on location that's a lot of his name is based on a real person.

Salina: Please don't test me on that later.

Nikki: Just know the name is real.

Salina: I got, like stuck at fayetteville.

Nikki: Too long.

Nikki: Didn't read the name is actually based on a real person.

Nikki: Someone in the world is actually named dash goth.

Salina: I mean, it's a good name.

Salina: It is a great I mean, I like the not sure not sure how I feel about the guy.

Salina: And here's another reason why so doesn't he kind of let's pair this together with this whole idea that everything is over hyper sexualized or sensualized about all these women, right?

Salina: On the flip side, when he and suzanne are alone, I think they had good chemistry.

Salina: But what he says to her is, it's kind of awful.

Salina: It sounds like he hates her kind of awful.

Salina: I think he might.

Salina: So she asks him if he wonders why they ever got married, and he replies, no, I wanted to be a writer and I felt I hadn't suffered enough.

Salina: And then he goes on to confirm that he did suffer whilst smoking in her house.

Nikki: It was a different type to life.

Nikki: So actually, it's funny that you say that, because I also caught onto the chemistry, and I took that entire scene as him out kicking his coverage, initially going for someone who was out of his range and then finding out that they just weren't good together.

Nikki: I didn't take it as him hating her necessarily.

Nikki: I took it as him saying these things to make himself feel better for it not working.

Salina: Or just that maybe you kind of get the sense that he's, like, a sad person.

Nikki: He's a modeling, he's a writer.

Salina: And so a lot of that could be at play, too.

Salina: Again, I think, a lot of times, because we are looking at something in just these really condensed short timelines and we don't get to spend a lot of time with him that I thought for.

Salina: Not that not that she's coming off smelling like a rose or anything, but he just doesn't sound like a really nice guy.

Nikki: I thought he was being really witty when she was like, you remember when you met me at the Pie Fi kissing booth?

Nikki: He said, yeah, you had the longest line and the highest prices.

Nikki: And I just thought that was so funny.

Nikki: That is like that captures her, and I think it captures how different the two of them are.

Salina: I think you like LBT.

Nikki: I also like Gerald McRaney.

Nikki: Like, a lot.

Salina: Me, too.

Salina: Like, a whole lot.

Salina: And actually, I think, just to be very fair, if anybody else had been in this role, he was the only thing that made me like at all, because I do think he has so much charisma.

Salina: I mean, he's just teeming with it.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: Some of the lines in the books I am still in strays for everyone to know.

Salina: I had a lot of strays in this one.

Salina: Some of the lines from the book were just really bad.

Salina: She was a woman who enjoyed littering, and for her, men were just as good as Kleenex.

Salina: Hold on.

Salina: Before I put my foot in my mouth, how did you feel about that line?

Nikki: Oh, no, I didn't love it.

Salina: I disliked it so much.

Nikki: I'm having a thought in my mind as you're talking that it hadn't occurred to me before, which is, is it possible the book actually just sucked?

Salina: Oh, yeah.

Salina: I mean, maybe, but I don't know.

Nikki: The women went on and on about it.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: And I guess it's just one of those fun things that you.

Salina: Get to ponder because we never really get to read it.

Salina: I have this crazy example in my head which is like, sometimes when they'll I think that what they're really trying to do is they can't talk about sexual things on TV, so they'll whisper, like, sex acts in somebody's ear and you don't get to hear them.

Salina: And they're like, oh, that's crazy.

Salina: And I'm like, what is it?

Salina: It's kind of like that where you kind of get to build up this mythology around it, but just about everything that they read from the book.

Salina: I was like, kind of sounds garbagey.

Salina: Could have been partly their reaction, too, though.

Salina: So sort of like this idea, like, sometimes when things are so big in pop culture and everyone is having a moment about it, I automatically am like.

Nikki: It'S going to be stupid.

Salina: It's going to be terrible.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: Meanwhile, I go all in.

Salina: Not every time.

Nikki: I don't like to be left out.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: I wasn't loving all of the little snippets that we were, you know, as.

Nikki: I was having my thought that perhaps the book just really sucked and that was sort of the point, was no, no, he'd really kind of I think I think LBT.

Nikki: Was taking it really seriously.

Nikki: That scene at the end where the women are standing, like, the picture of them on the front porch and then like, the voiceover.

Salina: She wants us to know that yeah, there's a whole thing.

Salina: Right.

Salina: She wants us to know that words are really important.

Salina: And I just want to say we agree.

Nikki: Agreed 100%.

Salina: And you know what?

Salina: We like a lot of your words.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: You were writing for somebody else.

Salina: It wasn't even your just and then she probably really does have a passion for Southern writers that would make some sense, right?

Nikki: I would love to understand this Dash Goff character more.

Nikki: He comes from somewhere.

Nikki: There is a reason she chose to make him a writer to write this sort of stuff he's coming from.

Salina: I think I do kind of want to look into it more.

Salina: So maybe that's something we can check back in on.

Salina: And when I QA this, maybe I'll write it down.

Salina: We'll see how it goes.

Salina: So this is maybe the third episode, the season where it's implied that Anthony is, like, Super I.

Salina: Well, now, of course, I don't have.

Nikki: The line where he says he's too young to know.

Salina: That some reference or something.

Salina: And I'm like, I don't think so.

Salina: So I don't know.

Salina: Anyways, it doesn't mean that we don't play actors younger.

Salina: I know that.

Salina: But his whole demeanor just doesn't even really seem young to me at all.

Nikki: He's kind of an old soul.

Salina: So, yeah, I don't know.

Salina: But for whatever reason, that's been sticking out, so I thought I'd share that.

Salina: And then final scene between Suzanne and Dash.

Salina: She's in the peach dress again she wore in season one.

Salina: Episode two, episode one and two.

Salina: This season, I think we're up to, like, the fourth or fifth episode in the same dress.

Salina: The same.

Salina: So it's a beautiful dress.

Nikki: Well, you know, Kate Middleton has taken to wearing old dresses, rewears, if you will, because it's more environmentally friendly.

Nikki: Suzanne was just ahead of her time.

Salina: You got it.

Salina: That must have been what it is.

Nikki: I think I'm on day four of wearing this.

Salina: Oh, right.

Salina: I mean, I should not say a darn thing.

Nikki: It doesn't fit with Suzanne's character.

Salina: Right.

Salina: That part feels really weird.

Salina: So I've got one thing that I liked, and I think we've already covered.

Nikki: It, telling me more.

Salina: So it's really going to be awesome.

Salina: Very amazing.

Salina: Just that I was excited just on because we've heard Dash a lot in season one, and we've heard some of things about him, but seen nothing.

Salina: I was really excited just to see another X.

Salina: And then I also love Gerald McCraney, and we've talked about that, so I was really excited to see him.

Salina: And I did enjoy their scenes together.

Nikki: Same z's.

Nikki: That's the only thing that I wrote down that I liked about this episode was the concept of getting to meet another ex husband.

Nikki: He could not have been any more different from Jack Dent, though.

Nikki: Like, they are two totally different people.

Nikki: So girls got range.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: And it was kind of cool to see these two, the different types of honestly, maybe she's onto something, that men are just generally attracted to her, all different kinds of men.

Nikki: And I think she likes messing around to see which one sticks for her.

Salina: Well, and I think we also kind of got, like, that he obviously notices looks.

Nikki: Yeah, sure.

Salina: So that's something.

Salina: And we know, I think, like, physiologically physiblobili, whatever you're about to say, I'm.

Nikki: Guessing, I don't know that.

Salina: At your most innate level, like, men are visual creatures.

Salina: Testosterone driven individuals are visual creatures.

Salina: So I think that is, like, kind of an initial attraction.

Salina: But as we learned from this episode, it doesn't last.

Salina: So don't pick your mate just based on the looks.

Nikki: So, fun question.

Nikki: Do you have anything that you anything else that you didn't like about the episode?

Nikki: Because I think I've fairly well covered the things I didn't like.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: I just kept waiting this entire episode for something to happen.

Salina: It never did, but we pretty much talked about that.

Salina: You have already talked about and wrote down several of these descriptions of the women.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: The final note that he wrote, I wrote it down.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: I'm like, wait.

Salina: So between us both, we've written down the entire episode.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: And I'm going to read it to you.

Salina: And let's just see.

Salina: Let's say one word to capture it.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: Yesterday, in my mind's eye, I saw four women standing on a veranda in white gauzy dresses and straw colored hats.

Salina: They were having a conversation and it was hot.

Salina: Their hankies tucked in cleavages where eternal trickles of perspiration run from the female breastbone to exotic vacation spots that Southern men often dream about.

Salina: Oh, they were sweet smelling, coy, cunning, voluptuous, voracious, delicious, pernicious, vexing, and sexy.

Salina: These earth sisters, rebel mothers, these arousers and carousers.

Salina: And it was filled with a longing to join them.

Salina: Excuse me, I but like a whim of scarlet, they turned suddenly and went inside, shutting me out with a bolt of a latch.

Salina: And I was left alone to pick up an abandoned handkerchief and savor the perfume shadows of these women, these Southern women.

Salina: This suzanne this Julia this mary Jo and Charlene thanks for the mm hmm.

Salina: One word.

Nikki: EW.

Salina: I was going to go with creepy.

Salina: So EW.

Nikki: Arousers.

Nikki: Carousels sweat between their breastbone vacation spots.

Salina: That Southern men often don't get to dash.

Nikki: We just met three days ago.

Nikki: It's called Florida, and it is hot all the time.

Salina: It is.

Salina: It is a sweaty cleavage.

Nikki: Florida, the sweaty cleavage of America.

Salina: There's something to that.

Nikki: Oh, my God.

Nikki: Let's just end it.

Nikki: Just pull the plug.

Salina: Yeah, let's just go ahead and rate this sucker.

Salina: Nikki, what'd you give it?

Nikki: I gave it two out of five stolen book reports.

Nikki: I didn't love it.

Nikki: Yeah, you know why?

Salina: Yeah, totally understandable.

Salina: I did give it a little higher.

Salina: Oh, my 2.5.

Nikki: Oh, here we are with the .5.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: One day it's going to be like 2.37 out of five unnecessary sexual metaphors.

Salina: Yeah, I don't know.

Salina: We've talked that to death, so I'm good.

Salina: Let's jump into the combination of either 80s, southern or unknown references.

Nikki: I'm going to save you some time.

Nikki: I only have references I had to look up or that we need to talk about.

Salina: Oh, okay.

Nikki: No combos.

Salina: Okay, well, I will run through these other ones really quickly.

Salina: In the 80s, things I had waiting around for a phone call at home.

Nikki: While smoking a cigarette, then you got.

Salina: My second one and then Southern things.

Salina: So this is interesting because you said Fayetteville.

Salina: They meant Fayetteville, Arkansas.

Salina: Yes, but he says he was in Fayetteville.

Salina: But I think they were talking about Fayetteville, Georgia, because they were like, where have you been?

Salina: What have you been up to?

Salina: And he was like, he had been at Fayetteville teaching, that's what.

Nikki: Oh, I thought he was at, like, Arkansas University or whatever.

Nikki: Arkansas State.

Salina: Oh.

Nikki: Is that in Fayetteville?

Salina: Oh, no, I'm just dumb.

Salina: And I thought we were getting a Georgia rep.

Salina: Well, they are in Atlanta.

Nikki: That's true.

Salina: So okay.

Nikki: I think he was in Arkansas, where the original Dashkoff is.

Salina: Well, it's still a Southern it's true reference.

Salina: So Fayetteville just cut it there.

Salina: Fayetteville, we get a lot about I mean, that's a thing, right?

Salina: This whole idea of, like, black Sheeps and Anthony's mention of the Southern assemblies program.

Salina: Oh, that's like a real thing.

Salina: And then let's go into your references.

Salina: Take it away.

Salina: What do we need to talk about?

Salina: What did you need to look up?

Nikki: I had to look up the Weekly Reader.

Nikki: This is charlene says she used to read about Nehru in this.

Nikki: It was a weekly newspaper for elementary school children.

Nikki: The first issue appeared in 1928 and the magazine ceased publication in 2012 when it merged with Scholastic News.

Nikki: I also had to look up the Shick Center.

Nikki: This is what Suzanne recommends.

Salina: It could have been a whole extra sugar, don't you think?

Nikki: It really could.

Nikki: So Suzanne recommends this when Dash suggests that sometimes he drinks, which seemed like a little bit of an extra.

Nikki: It alluded to the fact that he's an alcoholic, maybe.

Nikki: So I found that it's a hospital called the Shick Shadel hospital in Washington, the state that's been open since 1935.

Nikki: And that's where they pioneered alcohol misuse treatment.

Nikki: The president and CEO of Shick Razor went there in the 1960s and experienced relief from his alcohol issues.

Nikki: And in turn Chick ended up spending a lot of money to develop a lab to look into habit formation.

Nikki: The hospital was renamed and today they handle all sorts of substance use and misuse issues.

Salina: So did you look up the Shick method?

Nikki: I did not.

Salina: Okay, so it is controversial.

Nikki: That doesn't surprise me.

Salina: Right.

Salina: So it uses negative reinforcement to teach the subconscious mind to dislike the addictive drug.

Nikki: So like making people like smoking a whole pack of cigarettes if your parents catch you smoking.

Salina: Yeah, similar to that idea.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: Which my grandparents did and my dad actually funny.

Salina: So sort of a twist on pavlov's dogs.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: So patients are confronted with the substances they are addicted to while small electric shocks and drugs that induce nausea are administered.

Salina: So yes, it's kind of like that, but cranked all the way up.

Salina: And what I read is that if memory serves here, is that it's really not that effective.

Salina: So in addition to it, unless you're.

Nikki: The Shick Razor guy and so it.

Salina: Is going to be effective for some people.

Salina: So these things still exist and it sounds like would it be recidivism in this case?

Salina: Anyways.

Salina: Anyways, your likelihood to lapse is still pretty substantial, especially for receiving electric shocks and nausea inducing medicine.

Salina: I actually also pulled a commercial.

Salina: This one is for weight.

Salina: Actually, look there.

Salina: I go with actually.

Salina: But yeah, because they expanded.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: So it was like smoking and drugs and alcohol.

Salina: Eventually they go to weight struggles and all of these different things.

Salina: So I've got a couple of things that we can drop in to show notes.

Salina: So if people are interested in learning more.

Salina: One is a firsthand experience from someone who did the Shick method and what they went through.

Salina: And then I think it was in like BuzzFeed or something.

Salina: And the other thing is this commercial.

Nikki: That'S kind of interesting.

Salina: Well, real quickly, did you have other references.

Salina: Okay, I had a few more.

Salina: So I had he, and I thought it would be an interesting one to bring up because he is Southern.

Salina: He was born in New Orleans in 1928.

Salina: A lot of things keep coming up in the 20s here lately that we're talking about on the show.

Salina: Wait, are you looking at me weird?

Salina: I don't remember the things no, I.

Nikki: Just had a joke in my head, but I'm going to keep it in my head.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: You're missing out, guys.

Salina: I'm sure it's a good one.

Salina: Anyways, he actually just recently passed away in 2017, and he was a singer, pianist, R and B artist and credited with weighing the foundation for rock and roll.

Salina: So that's a pretty big attribute.

Salina: Viewmaster.

Nikki: Yeah, I meant to write that one down.

Salina: Did you have one?

Nikki: Yes, I think I have one at my house now.

Salina: I'm sure they still make them for kids.

Nikki: Oh, no, this is from the have yours?

Nikki: No, I have my husband.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: My in laws are keepers of things.

Salina: I see.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: So I have that on there.

Salina: We still haven't said what it is.

Salina: So the viewmaster is basically just a little toy, and then you put in, like, a little film thing at the end, and then you rotate it and you watch little pictures.

Salina: And I had, like, a Disney one.

Salina: Let's see.

Salina: I'm like, what does Kyle have?

Nikki: I don't remember.

Nikki: It's in a yellow Garfield plastic lunchbox at our house.

Nikki: And we've probably got, like 20 or 25 films.

Nikki: I'll ask Landon what it is because he likes to sit there and look at it from time to time.

Salina: It's a fun thing to look at.

Nikki: It is.

Salina: It is cool, and it's like a really old toy, and I think that that's interesting that it's still, like your son still finds it interesting today, even with all the technology and everything that most people usually want to pay attention to now.

Salina: So you go viewmaster.

Salina: Way to have some longevity, you know what I'm saying?

Salina: I had to look up Monarch notes.

Nikki: I looked them up too, and it.

Salina: Just similar to Cliff Notes.

Nikki: I picked up from context clues in the show that it was similar to Cliff Notes.

Nikki: And so my criteria for bringing up things on here are things that I legitimately had to look into.

Nikki: I had to spend time with it.

Salina: Or things that we just need to talk about.

Nikki: Right.

Salina: We expanded the category because somebody has to talk about all kinds of things.

Salina: Twice Before Dawn is a book that's mentioned it's not real.

Nikki: It's not real.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: And I found it because somebody said they didn't have to do the work.

Salina: Somebody had already done this work, and they were like, it's not real.

Salina: I was like, cool.

Salina: Check.

Salina: But now you all know in case you were like, I got to read this twice before.

Nikki: You can't you can't.

Salina: You got to write it.

Salina: Tell us about it.

Nikki: We read it.

Nikki: It sounds like it could be an interesting story.

Salina: I think so.

Nikki: Or a soap opera.

Salina: Yeah, absolutely.

Salina: I think yeah, that's my last one.

Nikki: Okay.

Nikki: Cut lines.

Nikki: I just had one.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: And it was basically where Dash and Mary Jo had their meeting.

Nikki: You mentioned that every character met with Dash in private.

Salina: Right?

Nikki: She met with him.

Nikki: It was not creepy.

Nikki: They had a conversation about trying to find a book for one of her kids, it sounds like, and for her daughter.

Nikki: And they ended up with Huck Finn.

Nikki: And she likes his style because he recommended it as a must for every daughter.

Nikki: And that's not normal.

Salina: I wonder why they cut that.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: It didn't fit with the rest of the tall.

Salina: It was sexy enough.

Nikki: Well, I was going to say between that interaction and Anthony's, maybe they saw it as, like, one or the other.

Nikki: I don't know.

Nikki: Do you know what?

Nikki: I'm not even going to try.

Salina: I found two other cut lines.

Salina: Two more?

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: The first one's really not that substantial.

Salina: It's basically like when Dash is talking in the beginning about being a failure because of the books not really being picked up.

Salina: Like, this is before he mentions everything that this possible movie deal and stuff.

Salina: He talks about how it was passed on as an alternate for the Book of the Month Club.

Salina: And then there's some random pageant example from Suzanne that really has no bearing on the situation.

Salina: She should get a podcast.

Salina: And then my last one was it was from Suzanne.

Salina: And it shows a little bit more of that jealousy thread about Dash going off separately with all of the other women.

Salina: Like, she specifically talks about that, and she sounds very jealous in the lines.

Nikki: Which is weird because she's the one that told them all to be nice to true.

Salina: So but I think that at least would have played up more on this idea of first he has a night out with Julia, then he has, like it read almost like a joke or something and like the different facets of a joke.

Salina: Well, first this scenario has to happen.

Salina: And this scenario has to happen.

Salina: I don't know.

Nikki: That's it you want to move on?

Nikki: Go to episode seven.

Nikki: Let's go to seven heart attacks.

Nikki: So we'd love everyone to follow along with us and engage Instagram and Facebook at sweetv.

Nikki: Email

Nikki: Our website is WW sweettv.

Nikki: And as a reminder, that's where we put references.

Nikki: We put links to cool things.

Nikki: So check it out, because you can double check us and double check our work.

Nikki: Look into the Shick center.

Salina: Oh, I thought you over there cussing.

Nikki: And hang tight for extra sugar.

Nikki: We're going to dive deep into the marriage of Delta Burke and Gerald McRaney.

Salina: Well, I'm looking forward to it.

Nikki: I'm looking for it.

Salina: I'm looking everywhere.

Salina: All right, okay.

Salina: We'll see you around the bend.

Salina: Bye.

Nikki: Welcome to this week's edition of Extra Sugar.

Nikki: I'm calling it Delta and Gerald, a real Southern romantic novel.

Salina: OOH.

Nikki: What do you think about that?

Salina: Well, it's a nice play on the episode.

Nikki: So now that we've wrapped up that episode about Deshkov, who I am calling the king of Southern softcore, there you go.

Salina: That's an accolade because he's the king of Southern softcore.

Nikki: There's something to it.

Nikki: I don't know.

Nikki: It feels like the right time to talk about another related romance, but I think this one's possibly more wholesome.

Nikki: That one of Miss Delta Burke, our dear, sweet Suzanne.

Nikki: And Gerald McRaney, who played dash.

Nikki: They're married, and they've been married for 32 years.

Nikki: Fun fact, their anniversary is one day before mine, May 20.

Nikki: Eigth.

Nikki: So we've talked about Delta a lot before, just like her personal life.

Nikki: I'm sure we've mentioned before that she is married to McRaney.

Nikki: I'm calling him Mac for the rest of the segment because it sounds like that's what all his friends call oh, okay.

Nikki: And he in fact, prefers so.

Nikki: But we've never really dug deeper into their marriage.

Nikki: So you feel free to add in things that you've read over time.

Nikki: Feel free to correct me if you think I've got something wrong.

Nikki: Before we start, I'm going to say full disclosure.

Nikki: I almost left Delta's departure from Designing Women out of this segment.

Nikki: I wanted to focus instead on their wedding, their marriage together.

Nikki: They are pretty private, which I think is great, but there are some things out there about their marriage, and I wanted to stay focused on that because that feels like the positive.

Nikki: But the more I thought about it and the more I sort of researched, I felt like that doesn't tell the whole story.

Nikki: So there's a lot in the tabloids about Delta from the time that she was on Designing Women, and it's kind of hard to parse out the factual things from some of the just plain mean things, some of the criticisms of their marriage.

Nikki: So I'm trying to take the high road.

Nikki: I'm trying to stay as factual as I can, but I do have to touch on some of the controversy.

Nikki: So I'm going to.

Nikki: But I want this to be a positive segment because I love love and they have a good love.

Nikki: So chime in.

Nikki: Tell me if I'm missing something.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: So Mac and Delta first met in 1987.

Nikki: I've read two versions of their meeting.

Nikki: One, I read that they met at a publicist luncheon.

Nikki: And two, I've read that they've met on the show, on the set of his show Simon and Simon, which aired on CBS from 1981 to 1989.

Nikki: So that show just sort of like a side note.

Nikki: That show was about two brothers who operate a two person detective agency in San Diego.

Nikki: 1981 to 1989 means that was on the air for almost a decade.

Nikki: Have you ever heard of it.

Salina: I think probably only in looking at filmographies in the past, but I'm not really maybe it never heard of it.

Salina: Maybe it just wasn't in when you.

Nikki: Play it again, reruns.

Nikki: Thank you.

Nikki: Oh, good point.

Salina: The way that we're exposed to so much different era television on Nick at Night and that kind of thing, maybe we just didn't get the same chance for that one.

Nikki: Oh, that's a good point.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: And we were so young.

Salina: Such babies.

Nikki: It is a huge part of his filmography.

Nikki: It's like a huge part of his resume.

Nikki: So I needed to mention that she was on that show.

Nikki: She had a guest appearance.

Nikki: So that's one of the ways that people say they met.

Salina: I hope it's that way.

Salina: A publicist luncheon.

Nikki: Hold your pants.

Nikki: I don't know what to say.

Nikki: Hold something.

Salina: Hold the pants and my phone.

Nikki: Grab something.

Nikki: So I was going to say you get to pick your favorite meeting story.

Nikki: Me personally, I'm choosing the publicist luncheon, and I'll tell you why.

Nikki: And I'm going to link to this in the show notes.

Nikki: There was a article that described them meeting at this publicist luncheon.

Nikki: And it sounds electric, like super romantic.

Nikki: Like, imagine catching each other's eyes across the room, introducing yourself and hearing a glint of a Southern accent from one and a glint of a Southern accent from the other.

Nikki: And you realize, oh, my God, we're in Hollywood and we're both Southern because he's from Mississippi.

Nikki: And so finding out you're both Southern and sort of bonding over that and then realizing you really like each other, I don't know, read the article and then decide how you feel about things because it sounds super romantic.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: Anywhozy, I digress that.

Nikki: Year after only.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: Isn't that weird, though?

Salina: I mean, it has to be that one then, right?

Salina: Because that otherwise means that someone has taken the time to make up this romantic story at this luncheon, and that's just weird.

Salina: So let's just decide it was there.

Nikki: I think that's a good bet.

Nikki: Now, I will say, what if she acted on the show, but they didn't have a chance to really interact?

Nikki: So they technically met on the show, but they didn't really meet until the.

Salina: Publicist luncheon, until they were making eyes at each other.

Nikki: So both are technically I don't know.

Salina: I'm with you.

Nikki: I think the publicist you should read the article.

Nikki: It sounds really and it might have even quoted them.

Nikki: So it seems more likely that's the anywho, that year, after only a few months of dating, she attended the Primetime Emmys with him.

Nikki: He was up for an Emmy for his work on Simon and Simon Delta says he asked her to marry him on their second date.

Salina: Oh, that's past.

Nikki: Max says, I wasn't going to let her get away.

Nikki: I already had competition.

Nikki: There were people asking her out on dates, and I was going to move in right away.

Nikki: I found a reference that says they got engaged at the restaurant Trader Vicks.

Salina: Oh, really?

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: I think you know this about me that I love, that I've been one time in my life I've been to this restaurant.

Nikki: I love it.

Salina: I just didn't realize that was like a chain.

Salina: Thank you.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: I'm glad that you have words today.

Nikki: There aren't very many left in the US.

Nikki: We have one in Atlanta.

Nikki: It's like a polynesian style tiki bar kind of restaurant, but a little upscale.

Nikki: They have homemade peanut butter.

Nikki: That's delicious.

Nikki: And also, if you're into hawai sort of tropical drinks, they have a very delicious drink menu.

Nikki: Peanut butter.

Salina: Do you think it's because it's so hard to get to the island?

Nikki: Don't know.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: Do you like that?

Salina: I got you a random question.

Nikki: I do.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: Trader Vicks go there for no other reason than Delta and Matt got engaged there.

Salina: And the peanut butter.

Nikki: And the peanut butter.

Nikki: Also, her ring was a four carat Tiffany ring worth at least $50,000.

Salina: Wow.

Salina: I was going to say that's really big.

Salina: But it's not anymore.

Salina: Right?

Salina: In the celebrity world.

Nikki: In the celebrity world.

Salina: Isn't JLo's like 75 or something ridiculous?

Nikki: It was when she was engaged.

Salina: Well, I'm sorry.

Salina: JLo sorry.

Salina: Gone.

Nikki: I'm sorry.

Salina: So rude.

Salina: They're real people.

Nikki: What's a big deal.

Nikki: She's with Ben Affleck again.

Salina: I know.

Nikki: So anyway, fast forward to 1988, the second season of Designing Women.

Nikki: And he appears as Dash Goff, her ex husband, which we just covered.

Nikki: They finally tied the knot in 1989.

Nikki: It was Burke's first marriage.

Nikki: It was Mick Rainey's third.

Nikki: So I thought this was kind of fun.

Nikki: His friends told him not to marry her because she was an actress.

Nikki: His rationale, why not?

Salina: They're the actors.

Nikki: Only people who understand this insanity.

Nikki: And she does.

Nikki: If I'm on location and I don't call her until 02:00 in the morning, no big deal.

Nikki: She knows if I come in in a foul mood because I've had a problem with the script or the director or this, she says, okay, I'll listen to you.

Nikki: Just don't take it out on me and I'll listen to you.

Nikki: I found an article that said they got married at Los Angeles'biltmore Hotel in the Emerald Room.

Nikki: I looked it up.

Nikki: It's pretty.

Nikki: But I really expected them to have like a really big Southern wedding on know, old property or something.

Nikki: They didn't.

Nikki: They got married at a hotel.

Nikki: It does sound like there was an interesting group of people at the wedding.

Nikki: I think we've each read this before, but I cannot remember if we've said it on the podcast that Dixie Carter was Delta's matron of honor.

Nikki: Some places made it sound like the entire cast of Designing Women.

Nikki: Was there a lot of the crew?

Nikki: I couldn't really find anything super helpful on that, but it sounds like it was a family affair.

Nikki: Family being the Designing Women family, when.

Salina: This would have been before problems had we'll get there.

Nikki: We'll get there.

Nikki: I also found a random article that said Tim Reed.

Nikki: Do you know who Tim Reed is?

Nikki: He was the dad on oh, okay.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: He was also a longtime Simon and Simon cast member.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: So he attended the wedding.

Nikki: He's a good friend of Mac's, and apparently after their first kiss, he said, who needs royalty?

Nikki: We've got Mac and Delta.

Salina: Oh, isn't that sweet?

Salina: That's nice.

Nikki: And the wedding sounds royal.

Nikki: There was a bridesmaid tea on Saturday, followed by a Mexican themed fiesta rehearsal on Saturday night at the couple's house in Pasadena.

Nikki: Fun fact, the bridesmaid dresses were made out of the same fabric that was used for the window coverings in Delta's home.

Nikki: And apparently at the bridesmaid luncheon, she said, now, don't be offended, guys.

Nikki: I had them make the window coverings out of the same fabric, not have the dresses made out of my window coverings.

Nikki: That sounds like something I would expect from Suzanne.

Salina: It sounds like something from Gone with the Wind.

Nikki: So there's more Suzanneisms in the wedding, because it was on Sunday, it included a nine piece ensemble, a jazz quartet, a twelve piece dance band, a bagpiper, and eight trumpeters who heralded Delta each time she made an appearance.

Salina: That sounds terrible.

Salina: Like your worst nightmare.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: And I mean, if she wanted that, that's great.

Salina: I'm just saying, for me, that would be a personal nightmare.

Nikki: Seems awful.

Salina: I'm surprised I made it down the aisle.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: I am not future center of attention.

Salina: I don't know where her future came from.

Salina: I am not a center of attention person.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: So that would be awful for me.

Salina: Good for her.

Salina: Good for her.

Nikki: So her mom, Jean Burke, gave her away.

Nikki: And when she was asked, like, who gives this woman away?

Nikki: She said, she gives herself with my blessing, which I thought was super progressive.

Salina: That's cool.

Nikki: And then at the reception in the hotel's Crystal room, they had a five tiered wedding cake and pictures of them.

Nikki: The pictures of them by their wedding cake.

Nikki: You can find a lot of those.

Nikki: So if you want to see that, you can find them.

Salina: I think I've seen that before.

Nikki: So this is actually when we move away from the fairy tale part to the tougher part.

Nikki: So according to most things I've read, things really unraveled on the show for Delta after their marriage.

Nikki: Kind of two important contextual guideposts.

Nikki: They were married in May 1989.

Nikki: The infamous season four episode, when the show Head on addressed Delta's Weight, aired in December of that year.

Nikki: So I actually thought there was a lot more distance between the two of those things, but they actually happened in the same year.

Nikki: The reason that season four episode is important, we have not made it there at all.

Nikki: But it's because that's often pointed to, as one.

Nikki: Of the darkest points in Delta's time on Designing Women.

Nikki: So in that episode, which is titled, they Shoot Fat Women, don't they?

Nikki: The writers addressed the weight gain Delta had experienced and been ridiculed for in the press.

Nikki: So to this point, even though the tabloids were obsessed with her body and just like talking about it all the time, they hadn't addressed it on the show at all.

Nikki: According to things I read, and Delta said this herself, she gained weight pretty much consistently from season one on.

Nikki: She was just gaining weight.

Nikki: Most of that time.

Nikki: It fluctuated a little bit, but she had mostly gained weight, which was something that the press really had a field day with.

Nikki: So after the episode, it was a milestone.

Nikki: And apparently that episode was so moving, it nominated her for an Emmy.

Nikki: She was the first cast member to be honored in that way because of her role in that episode.

Nikki: Then she started talking to the press.

Nikki: So she claimed the episode was her idea.

Nikki: LBT disagreed vehemently and from there, it just got messier and messier.

Nikki: Delta ultimately was written off the show before season six, so I'm sure at some point we're going to cover all of that.

Nikki: The reason I'm bringing it into this segment about their marriage is because there's a lot of speculation that the way Delta's relationship with the show and her costars Devolved had a lot to do with her marriage to Mac.

Nikki: So based on the things I've read, it sounds like two things happened.

Nikki: One, he loved and supported her regardless of her weight, which she says may actually have encouraged her to gain weight.

Nikki: Sort of like a test.

Nikki: You say you love me no matter what I look like.

Nikki: Let's see.

Nikki: Part two is he encouraged her, which may have fueled her discontent for the show by building her confidence.

Nikki: Something I read said like he actually made her feel so good about herself to the point of arrogance.

Nikki: So she really believed she was the star of the show.

Nikki: So I found a 1990 Barbara Walters interview.

Nikki: This is the one Delta did, which was sort of almost like the nail in the coffin.

Nikki: She did it without telling the Thomasons and told her truth.

Nikki: And Mac is actually interviewed at the front of that episode.

Nikki: And he says basically that a man can be pushy and demanding and he's considered exacting and a professional, but when a woman does it, she's a b****.

Nikki: To me, that says a lot about the safety that Delta felt with him and maybe why he could have helped push her to get her due on the show.

Nikki: So basically she said, I am the star of this show.

Nikki: Like, I'm doing these amazing things.

Nikki: I want my fair share.

Nikki: And she says in that Barbara Walters interview, I helped build this show as much as the Thomasons did.

Nikki: She wrote Suzanne.

Nikki: And I brought Suzanne to life.

Nikki: And all I'm saying is I want my fair share.

Nikki: I want to be treated like an equal.

Nikki: I want to be treated and there were some bombshell claims in this interview.

Nikki: All of this is to say, two years after their wedding, she and Mac renewed their vows, and no one from the Designing Women crew, not even Dixie Carter, attended.

Nikki: However, by the early two thousand s, the cast members had reunited in a Lifetime reunion special.

Nikki: So we know that all ended okay, right?

Nikki: And the Delta Mac fairy tale has definitely worked out.

Nikki: When he he won an Emmy in 2017 for his work on this Is US.

Salina: So good.

Nikki: Oh my gosh, it was such a good role.

Nikki: So I want to end on two quotes that he said when he was doing press.

Nikki: So he said, as a man, I've had the love of the finest woman I can possibly imagine as an actor.

Nikki: When she tells me something's good, I accept that I've done okay.

Nikki: Because she knows what she's talking about.

Nikki: When other people say it's nice, I appreciate the compliment.

Nikki: When she says it, it's real.

Nikki: Because she'll tell me when I suck, too.

Nikki: She has no hesitation about that.

Nikki: So it's a good partnership for me.

Nikki: It keeps me toeing the line.

Nikki: The second quote, I think the primary emotion that drove the Dr.

Nikki: K character, that's his character on this Is US was the loss of his wife and the loss of a child.

Nikki: Early on, all I had to do was imagine losing my wife.

Nikki: When I did that, the only problem I had was regaining my composure when a take was over.

Nikki: If I imagine losing Delta, I'm completely lost.

Nikki: And I really don't know how long I could continue doing this.

Nikki: Let me tell you, if Dashgoff had said any of those things, I would have swooned hard.

Nikki: So romantic.

Nikki: So sweet.

Nikki: So here's to Delta and Mac, 32 years and going strong.

Nikki: And this has been this week's extra sugar.


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