Designing Women S3 E9 - Big Brother Anthony

We learn more about Anthony’s back story after he becomes a "Big Brother" to Tyrone, a precocious teenager, with a penchant for finding trouble. Meanwhile, Julia makes the news, Suzanne finds her first chin hair (psh, rookie), and we take a closer look at some important stereotypes in "Salina’s Sidebar."

Stick around for this week’s "Extra Sugar" and play a round of TV trivia with us!

Some reads:

• Representations of African American Characters on Television and Film – Democracy and Me

• How '90s TV transformed black representation

• The evolution of Black representation on television | University of Arizona News

Come on, let’s get into it!

Or listen on Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Podcasts.

Transcript

Salina: Hey, Nikki.

Nikki: Hey, Salina.

Salina: And hello everyone and welcome to Sweet Tea and TV.

Salina: Hi, guys.

Salina: There you go.

Salina: So we're just gonna we're gonna just jump on in there.

Salina: Just jump on in to the episode.

: No.

Nikki: Oh, okay.

Salina: Goodness.

Nikki: Should I start with the episode description?

Nikki: That feels too soon.

Nikki: It does.

Salina: I mean, we want to like ease people into the situation.

Nikki: I thought you were jumping into the deep end.

Salina: I can't, I'm too scared.

Salina: You should see me get in a pool.

Salina: It takes like 100 minutes.

Salina: You know it does.

Nikki: I know.

Salina: You know me.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: The best step at a time.

Salina: So I realized that I missed a James Lipton question.

Nikki: Oh, nice.

Salina: Can you imagine?

Nikki: My gosh.

Salina: So I'm going to start off by just asking you if heaven exists.

Salina: What would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the pearly gates?

Nikki: Dive right into the chocolate river.

Nikki: Oh, okay.

Salina: When expecting it to go that way.

Nikki: But I love the sweet treat reference somehow.

Nikki: Heaven is Willy Wonka's chocolate factory.

Salina: Isn't it, though?

Salina: It better be.

Salina: What are we even doing here if it's not?

Nikki: That was sort of a joke answer, but I might have to go with it because I don't know that I have a better one.

Nikki: I don't know about that.

Salina: A better one than that?

Nikki: I've never really thought about that.

Salina: Yeah, I haven't either.

Nikki: What's your answer?

Salina: I think mine would be this is the last time.

Salina: I swear.

Nikki: The last time you have to live.

Salina: No more of that.

Salina: It's only perfection from here, right?

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: I think that's where my answer is coming from.

Nikki: Like some version of.

Salina: No more Monday.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: You're done working, you're done with violence, you're done with the hard stuff.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: Just want it to be smooth sailing.

Salina: Speaking of smooth sailing, this episode wasn't it.

Salina: But that's how we're going to segue.

Salina: So take it away, Nikki.

Nikki: So this episode is called Tyrone.

Nikki: Anthony decides to serve as a surrogate brother to a troubled youth and winds up having to face painful facts about his own childhood.

Nikki: The air date was January 16, 1989.

Nikki: Salina's IMDb Trivia Pool tells me that this episode wasn't the first time that Dixie Carter and Shivar Ross, who played Tyrone, had worked together.

Nikki: They both previously appeared often in different scenes of the same episode on Different Strokes in seasons six and seven.

Nikki: We're calling this one Big Brother Anthony.

Nikki: It was written by LBT and directed by David Trainer, the dynamic duo.

Nikki: Judging from how you opened this episode, I'm a little nervous to say Salina, want to give me your first general reaction?

Salina: I do, but it's a little layered.

Nikki: Okay.

Nikki: I would expect nothing less.

Salina: What if I was just like, good, me?

Salina: Like, it would make the episode this one in faster.

Salina: So I thought that this one had some highs and lows that I think just really have a lot to do with the age of this one.

Nikki: Okay?

Salina: So for me some of the language felt really dated and on more than one occasion and by more than one character or person on the show tyrone is referred to as a quote unquote ghetto kid a few times and it felt especially not great coming from Suzanne who's like a rich white woman.

Salina: We've got a little bit of the white savior complex going on.

Salina: We have Julia.

Salina: She's the one who offers Tyrone an after school job.

Salina: She's also the one who persuades Anthony to give Tyrone another chance after he robs the convenience store.

Salina: Even that peace felt trophy today.

Salina: This idea of the quote unquote troubled black youth who needs saving.

Salina: So I just thought some of that.

Salina: It's 1989.

Salina: I don't know what else to tell you about it or Anthony's story even.

Salina: So we do get to learn more about Anthony and I'm appreciative of that.

Salina: But specifically thinking about his childhood in this episode there's just all these really terrible things.

Salina: Both of his parents ran out.

Salina: His mom was an addict.

Salina: He speaks about some pretty cruel abuse in the neighborhood he grew up in.

Salina: And it's just pretty clear they're trying to show Anthony as the kind of person who went through a lot and came out on the other side even though the deck was stacked against him.

Salina: And that's noble for sure but I think it will be handled differently today.

Salina: And I do think in both of these cases we're looking at some different degrees of representation issues which we can talk about a little bit more in a Salina sidebar that I'm hoping you're okay for me to do I have a choice?

Nikki: I'm sitting here now.

Salina: We're in it.

Salina: But I thought we could get through our general reactions and strays first.

Salina: But that was my biggest one.

Salina: Just the age on this one was very apparent.

Nikki: I don't know that I ever landed on a way to articulate my first general reaction in a way that makes sense.

Nikki: But in the description, the episode description they say Anthony winds up having to face painful facts about his own childhood.

Nikki: That's not how I would have described the episode.

Nikki: So it's not like obviously not significant.

Nikki: Nothing to stop the presses over because the presses aren't running on this one.

Nikki: But I just bring it up because I read that a couple of times going back through my notes and I was like that's actually not how I would have described it.

Nikki: I just took something totally different away from the episode.

Nikki: I feel like he's plenty well faced the crappy parts of his childhood.

Nikki: It's more that it dawned on him how important having a stable pushing figure in his life was for his development.

Nikki: And maybe even a realization that having that central rock to help to always feel like you have someone on your side.

Nikki: That's the part that dawned on him.

Nikki: It didn't.

Nikki: Dawn on him.

Nikki: He had a crappy childhood.

Nikki: He knew that.

Nikki: He knew the deck was stacked against him.

Nikki: What he realized in this episode, I think, was that he had people on his side and how important that was.

Nikki: And so to turn his back on Tyrone would be to disadvantage this child more in a way that Anthony could contribute in a helpful way.

Salina: I think that's pretty well articulated.

Nikki: I just kept reading the episode description.

Nikki: I was like, Am I reading the wrong thing?

Nikki: Because that's not how I read it.

Salina: It feels like to me sometimes first of all, we're not getting a synopsis from the story writer.

Salina: Right.

Salina: And so I think sometimes, especially in these older shows that appear on streaming services, it's almost a disservice to read them.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: I think even the only reason we include it is for anyone who just needs a reminder.

Nikki: Right.

Salina: That's really all it's about.

Salina: Because I think we decided at some point that it was a disservice to the listeners here to break down every single part of the episode.

Salina: Right.

Salina: And so I do think if you're watching this show along with us, and we hope you are, that maybe just watch it without reading the description because I don't know, it's great.

Nikki: And I don't bring it up as a way to talk about whether the description has merit or not or to say, is this description writer the best description writer in the world?

Nikki: It was more just to have a conversation between us about, like I'm misinterpreting the episode.

Nikki: Did you feel like Anthony had this come to Jesus moment about his childhood where he was like, oh, my God, it was really hard.

Nikki: Oh, my God, it was really the deck was stacked against me?

Nikki: Do you think Anthony's ever doubted that?

Nikki: I don't think so, because he even says, like, in this episode.

Nikki: And then when we originally found out what happened around his unfortunate incarceration, even when we found out about that, he realized, like, he was just a victim of circumstance.

Salina: I think all of that was for the audience.

Salina: I don't think it was for Anthony anyway.

Salina: I also think that he probably doesn't think about it as a tough life, the way he describes his neighborhood.

Salina: Everyone was going through a set of difficult circumstances.

Salina: And when everyone is going through a set of difficult circumstances, I think they call those circumstances, if that makes sense.

Nikki: Right.

Nikki: It's all perspective.

Nikki: It's not difficult to them.

Nikki: It's just their life reality.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: I feel like I probably had some of this later on, but let's see if I can recall it, because I'll never find it trying to go through.

Salina: But basically it's this idea that it's not that he didn't know that these things had happened, but I'm not sure that you're thinking about a man in the late 80s.

Salina: Like, therapy is still stigmatized.

Salina: I don't think that people, by and large, are brought I think people are brought up by and large to just ignore their past, especially then.

Salina: I think we are more introspective now than we've ever been.

Salina: So I don't think it's something that he's necessarily sat down and dealt with.

Salina: I think that might be what I saw this as being, is almost like an emotional breakthrough that he would have in a therapist's office, but he had it there with Julia.

Salina: But I don't think that negates anything that you're saying either.

Salina: When you have an emotional breakthrough, you're having something dawn on you.

Nikki: Right, right.

Salina: And I think just like the more not logistical, but the more like when the rubber meets the road is right here in front of him right now, is realizing that what this kid needs is a strong figure in their life.

Salina: This is a kid, first of all.

Salina: Everyone is important, but this idea that this kid right here, right now needs him, he can be that figure in his life.

Salina: I think that holds just as much merit as the fact that I think he may be very aware of his trauma, but you can be aware of something.

Salina: But it doesn't mean that you've quote unquote faced it.

Nikki: Right.

Salina: That was the inarticulate way of saying it.

Nikki: Right.

Salina: But that's sort of how it struck me.

Nikki: Okay.

Nikki: Do we feel like maybe Julia could have talked to Anthony privately before offering Tyrone the job?

Salina: Yeah, I think that's fair.

Nikki: Just feel like that could have been a private conversation first.

Nikki: Like asking your friend or like asking your mom if your friend can spend the night with your friend standing right there.

Nikki: Yeah, that was kind of a d*** move, I say.

Salina: Julia Jornet.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: This is my last general reaction to this one is just two back to back parts that had me in tears.

Salina: I did cry in this one.

Salina: I may have not agreed with the way the episode was put together, necessarily.

Salina: Fine for 89, less fine for now.

Nikki: Right.

Salina: But like Anthony's story about his mom at the playground, that tore me up.

Nikki: That was really, really sad.

Salina: That was hard.

Salina: Especially when you're thinking about that age.

Salina: Everything is first of all, that's a critical issue anyway.

Salina: But everything is so heightened when you're a child.

Salina: I just remember being so self conscious of everything.

Salina: I'm like, you think I'm self conscious now?

Salina: You should have seen me as a kid.

Salina: You're just so easily embarrassed.

Salina: Everything's a thing.

Salina: You don't want to be someone who stands out.

Salina: You really want to blend in at that age.

Salina: And so to have that happen, especially after getting excited and going around and saying, mom's going to be here, mom's going to be here, I just could feel the crushing and then more importantly.

Nikki: Than the embarrassment, the heartbreak of your own mother not knowing your face.

Salina: Exactly.

Salina: So it's like all these crushing waves of emotions.

Salina: I can't even imagine so many things right and then Tyrone, or him telling Tyrone that his birthday wish was that he was his son.

Salina: So those things happening back to back, it nearly took me out, which would.

Nikki: Lead nicely to my last general reaction, which is how many not his children children are we going to rip away from Anthony?

Nikki: We're going to dangle in front of him, give him a sense of like I don't want to say purpose because obviously you can have purpose without having kids, but a thing that he's focused on and a thing he's going to help nurture and then just rip it away from him when he's fully in.

Nikki: He has shown on two occasions now that he is ready to go fully in for someone.

Salina: Well, I think we have ourselves we need a name for this.

Salina: I don't know if it's called the Lewis Grizzard syndrome or something, but it's this idea that we know that Suzanne and Julia still have a relationship with their brother off screen.

Salina: We'll never see it.

Salina: It's similar to this.

Salina: Like the kid that showed up in season two that he thought that he was his dad.

Salina: Well, he didn't think that he really knew, but everybody else thought they was dad and he was like, no, I want this kid to be like my son.

Salina: Yes, he left, but I think that he is still in his life.

Salina: I hope so.

Salina: It's just something that we don't see off screen.

Salina: Like, Anthony's a busy guy, he's out there doing lots of stuff.

Salina: So I think in between moving around every person on the show's, bag bags on set every day, loading trucks and cars.

Salina: That's right.

Salina: I think he is also still very active in that child's life.

Salina: And I think that Tyrone he said here that Tyrone would always be a part of his life and I believe he meant that.

Nikki: I hope so, for Anthony's sake.

Salina: Sure.

Nikki: Because he just keeps getting it and getting it ripped away.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: So what you got in the stray category?

Salina: Did you recognize Tyrone?

Nikki: No.

Salina: He goes on to play Eddie's friend weasel on family matters.

Salina: Do you remember Weasel?

Nikki: No, I don't, but that's fantastic.

Salina: I flipping love family matters.

Nikki: Such a good show.

Salina: I bet you I saw every episode like ten times.

Nikki: It was a really good show.

Salina: It was so good.

Salina: So my second stray is buckle up, Suzanne.

Salina: You think a hair on your chin is devastating?

Salina: Just wait as you get deeper into your thirty s, the whole thing is one big treat.

Nikki: That's my second stray.

Salina: How about you?

Nikki: I have a sweet TNTV fashion corner.

Nikki: Oh, I feel like we need to pause for the cause to talk about Charlene's new perm.

Salina: Yeah, it was real.

Nikki: Nat a real treat.

Nikki: She's sitting at her desk and that is massively different than her hair previously.

Salina: It is.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: And I can tell you that because that was her hair previously.

Salina: Right?

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: It's just a whole vibe.

Salina: Big changes.

Nikki: I also wanted to touch on the fact that tAnthony Tyrone used Anthony's word uncouth when he told the price of the air freshener gift he got the ladies.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: And unfortunate incarceration.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: There's a little bit of a mirroring happening there now.

Salina: I think we should have called the episode Tamhony Tampony dog on it.

Salina: Missed opportunity.

Salina: My last ray.

Salina: Just more of that 80s TV magic at play.

Salina: That's some fast Atlanta police work getting Julia's license plate and reporting it there in only a handful of hours.

Salina: Several witnesses had already identified her.

Salina: There's three people in Atlanta, I don't know if you all knew that or not even in 1989 in convenience stores selling cameras.

Salina: How convenient.

Nikki: Well, that's what they're meant to be convenient.

Salina: I can't tell you all the cameras.

Salina: I remember seeing lucky sales back then.

Nikki: Cameras.

Salina: Do they?

Nikki: I don't know.

Nikki: I'm sure they do.

Nikki: They sell everything else.

Nikki: Now you're just saying things you're not going to touch on.

Nikki: The fact that this episode aired in January and they mentioned it being cold a time or two.

Nikki: So I think we can presume the episode was in January.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: So it was Anthony's birthday.

Nikki: So maybe we should remember that Anthony's birthday seems to be in January.

Salina: A capricorn.

Nikki: Sure.

Salina: You knew that, right?

Nikki: Sure.

Salina: Well, if it's the end of January, then it would be aquarius.

Nikki: I was going to say that.

Nikki: I was hoping you would catch on to that.

Salina: I was hoping yeah.

Salina: As promised.

Salina: Let's sidebar.

Salina: Let's sidebar Salina's sidebar, shall we?

Nikki: It's a sidebar right here.

Nikki: It's a sidebar.

Nikki: Salina sidebar.

Nikki: She's got a keyboard.

Nikki: Looking for a reward by digging deep in the obscure.

Nikki: Taking us on a detour.

Nikki: What you got Salina in Salina sidebar?

Salina: So specifically, I'd like to talk about the representation of African Americans on TV and entertainment and why that representation matters.

Salina: But before we do that real quick, I just feel like I need to start with I understand that I am a white woman, so I am not trying to speak on behalf of any group or pretend that I understand anyone else's experience.

Salina: Nikki, I don't understand your experience.

Nikki: You don't?

Salina: I can never fully understand anyone's but my own.

Salina: But one of our goals is to break down stereotypes and this feels like a time to do that because that felt like it was hanging over this episode for me.

Nikki: There's definitely something okay, so with all.

Salina: That in mind, in some ways I think this segment could be a nice companion to a few other conversations that we had back in season one.

Salina: So episode six and 20, specifically in episode six, we explored actor Mishaq Taylor's recollection of playing Anthony.

Salina: And then in episode 20 we talked about the legendary and somewhat controversial entertainer Bojangles.

Salina: So I just want to say that I think this almost feels like it's going to be going a little bit deeper than those did.

Salina: And so if you want to go back and listen to those, it might be a helpful little sidebar to a sidebar to a sidebar.

Salina: You know what I'm saying?

Salina: Okay.

Salina: So according to an article by Dr.

Salina: David Child on Democracy and Me quote, from the inception of motion pictures and television, african Americans have been depicted in unflattering ways.

Salina: This includes portraying African Americans as being deviant, violent, dim witted, or as comic relief for the film.

Salina: He uses a couple of different examples of this.

Salina: So just to try and give folks a visual of something that they may or may have not seen in your movie watching experience, but Mammy from Gone with the Wind.

Salina: So I've seen Gone With the Wind several times.

Salina: I don't know that everyone listening has, but we've talked about the stereotype before, and these women who are treated and presented as almost asexual beings, that's problematic.

Salina: But also, as the article pointed out here, the Mammy stereotype also perpetuates this idea of a servile and docile house slave whose sole existence is to keep her white master happy.

Nikki: So that's one example that sounds Song of the Southeast.

Salina: It does, right?

Salina: It was definitely making me think about that episode where we talked about that as well.

Salina: And I just want to say that let's see if I can say this on the fly correctly.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: I feel like there might be a listener out there who be like, what are you talking about?

Salina: I love the character of Mammy.

Salina: She was great.

Salina: The actor that played Mammy was very charismatic.

Salina: Her name's escaping me right now.

Salina: Winner of the first Oscar hattie McDaniel.

Salina: Thank you.

Salina: Look at that.

Salina: With all power combined.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: So no one's trying to say that she was not a charismatic actor.

Salina: And no one is even trying to say necessarily that there wasn't something charismatic about that role or some of the things that happened.

Salina: Like, she had some great lines in the movie.

Salina: It's not that.

Salina: It's like two things can be happening at once.

Salina: She can have done a good job in that role, and that role can also be perpetuating some really dangerous stereotypes.

Nikki: Right.

Salina: I just feel like that needs to be said.

Salina: And people who are like, I love.

Nikki: Mammy, and isn't there something to say in terms of self reflection?

Nikki: If that character made you feel comfortable, that's what that character was intended to do for largely white audiences.

Salina: Thank you for saying that.

Salina: And I think that's something that it might be difficult if maybe you grew up with that movie or something and you just never viewed it through that lens, but that's why we have to look through multiple lenses and not just our own.

Nikki: And you can also say that movie was made in a very specific point in time.

Nikki: I love that character, but I can see why that's a problem.

Nikki: Exactly what you're saying.

Nikki: These two things can exist.

Nikki: I can still have my personal experience with it and still remember why I loved that movie, but say like, oh, yeah, sure, I see why we wouldn't make a mammy today.

Nikki: It's not a cool character, but she was really good.

Salina: Absolutely.

Salina: So the next example they used was Amos and Andy.

Salina: These are two black radio and later TV characters.

Salina: This aired from the mid 1920s to the mid 1950s.

Salina: Not only were these characters not portrayed in a very flattering way, they were played by two white men who were basically making fun of African Americans for white audiences.

Salina: Feel like that one's just more obvious all around.

Salina: Not that mammy's not okay.

Salina: And then in the 1970s, this is the final example there were a wave of what's known as black exploitation films.

Salina: And these films not only reinforce stereotypes, but they also pay low wages.

Salina: And the article cites movies like Shaft Mandingo and Blackula all as examples of that time period.

Salina: So according to a 1987 study cited on Wikipedia, I did find the sighting.

Salina: I just want to be very clear about that.

Salina: But I also did find it on Wikipedia.

Salina: But from 1955 to 1986, only 6% of characters on primetime television were African Americans, while 89% of the TV population was white.

Salina: As scholar Stephanie Troutman Robbins put it, TV is a primary source of America's racial education.

Salina: So let's unpack that real quickly.

Salina: If you are someone who doesn't know a lot of African Americans personally, then the media might be your only exposure.

Salina: And if that media is predominantly white and then the African American roles you see are only stereotypical, then you're likely walking away with a very narrow or even almost caricature like misunderstanding of what is a very diverse community.

Salina: So I feel like some of these concepts are kind of big, and it may be like, I don't understand what the problem is, but just to kind of like put it in the most specific terms, I think in terms of.

Nikki: Being like a careful consumer of entertainment, that's something to remember.

Nikki: So again, Designing Women could be the same thing.

Nikki: If you don't know any Southern people, some of these stereotypes that we're talking about in our show, about the show, you might believe that's Southern, that we all eat dirt.

Nikki: Some people do.

Nikki: We don't all.

Nikki: And that's okay, right?

Nikki: Exactly.

Nikki: Fine.

Nikki: Totally fine.

Nikki: But that's the same of everything.

Nikki: Like Roseanne was intended to show a lower income white family, but not all lower income white families are exactly the same.

Nikki: So if you think lower income people are all like Roseanne's family, that's problematic as well.

Nikki: Because it's diverse.

Salina: Absolutely.

Salina: So in this kind of powerful influence whatever stereotypes you're seeing.

Salina: But in this case, we're talking about stereotypes about African Americans.

Salina: But it not only can affect how people outside of black communities perceive African Americans, it can influence the way African Americans see themselves.

Salina: I was going to use some examples, but you use some really great ones.

Salina: So that's right.

Salina: Whether it's Southern or female.

Salina: Like, I think about this idea of women characters diminish by never being the hero of a journey or not really have anything to say or only appearing on screen and talking about a love interest or something like that.

Salina: It's all these things where these attitudes, these beliefs, this is me talking, not this author, but they work their way into the psyche of the viewer and they don't stay on the screen, but rather they seep out into real life.

Salina: I don't remember what the theory is called, but there's the thing where people watch, for instance, like, a lot of crime TV and then they have done surveys before and these people who watch a lot of crime TV think that crime is more prevalent in the community than it is.

Salina: So this is just how powerful of a medium TV and film can be.

Salina: And so I think that's important to understand.

Salina: I do want to say that it's not all bad news.

Salina: There have certainly been exceptions to the stereotypes both in film and TV over the decades, and hopefully those exceptions are turning into the rule.

Salina: I also ran across an AJC article that talked about big changes that happened not only in this time period that we're talking about back in the 80s, but also in the 90s where characters emerge who are not just tokens or sidekicks.

Salina: And the article argued specifically for how 90s TV transformed black representation.

Salina: So there was basically an explosion of black TV shows on networks like UPN, Fox and the WB, and the shows are depicting relatable life experiences for black characters, maybe more so than ever.

Salina: I will tell you, I had a number of favorites that come to mind in Living Color, Living Single.

Salina: That theme song still a banger.

Salina: If you don't know it, look it up, guys.

Salina: It's real good.

Salina: Sister, Sister, also a good theme song.

Salina: Hanging with Mr.

Salina: Cooper rock family Matters jamie Fox the Wayans brothers.

Salina: Somebody's going to yell at me if I don't say Moisha.

Salina: I mean, just I mean, it goes on and on and on.

Salina: It was a lot of good shows, that's all I'm saying.

Salina: I'm sure you probably had some favorites in there, too.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: What I was going to say, though, is it makes sense.

Nikki: To me, the 90s would be the explosion, because that's about 30 years post civil rights, and that would put the first generation of post civil rights kids at the point where they might have some influence in TV and in entertainment, and so they might have grown into black TV by black creators.

Nikki: That's where you're going to get the best TV.

Salina: We'll get into that.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: So that's where it kind of takes a little bit of a turn, maybe.

Salina: But the other thing that this article pointed out that's really important is that and I've seen this argued elsewhere, but basically that networks use black shows to prop themselves up, and then they abandoned those shows.

Nikki: I've heard that happen when they got.

Salina: More mainstream hits, and when they walk you through that landscape, it's a very compelling argument.

Salina: So while some data has found a reversal of underrepresentation on broadcast scripted shows, like for instance, it's going to be really unusual for you to pull up any show now, and it'd just be like Friends.

Salina: Just like an all white cast, right?

Salina: That will be highly unusual today.

Salina: Even though that's the case, a 2019 study revealed that seven in ten black viewers wish to see more TV shows and movies showing the diversity of the black American experience.

Salina: We started out with underrepresentation.

Salina: I feel like we're in this area now where we're getting more representation, but then it's like, can we also get that diversity of experience?

Salina: Okay.

Salina: And I think that's what I was talking about when I'm talking about this episode and what I felt like we were seeing between Tyrone and Anthony.

Salina: So building off what you were saying, another persistent but related issue is the need for more representation behind the cameras.

Salina: I'm talking writers, producers, directors.

Salina: Representation at this level makes for more authentic stories, and it leads to showing the diversity of experience that viewers really want to see.

Salina: So where are we then?

Salina: So UCLA's 2022 really trips me up every time.

Salina: Anyways, this year's Hollywood Diversity Report found that only three out of ten film directors and 3.2% out of film writers are people of color.

Salina: In 2021, 9.5% of the directors and 10.5% of the writers for top Hollywood films were black.

Salina: According to another report, in 2021, the number of black showrunners was only 5%.

Salina: These are two different sets of data, I'm guessing, so I don't know how comparable those are, but if you're just strictly looking at around 10% to 5%, it looks like film is edging out TV a little bit.

Nikki: And the first one you said was 3% people of color, not necessarily black.

Salina: Yeah, that's correct.

Salina: So broadly, yeah.

Nikki: That's even more astounding.

Salina: Yes.

Salina: If I were to encapsulate the general feeling in my research, it's that progress is happening, but we need more of it.

Salina: You know, the usual.

Salina: The last thing I'll say is this, I feel confident we're looking at a largely progressive plot for 1989.

Salina: So I think that's really important to say.

Salina: I'm not trying to blow up LBT or anything, not by a long shot.

Salina: I think it was probably singular to have the storyline focus on a young African American teen who the show is clearly saying deserves and needs a second chance.

Nikki: Right.

Salina: And I truly believe or a first.

Nikki: Chance because he's a kid, right?

Salina: Just a baby.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: What is he, like 14?

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: And I truly believe, especially with what we've learned about LBT, that this episode came from a good place.

Salina: It's just that the world has changed.

Salina: A lot around it.

Salina: That episode in the last 33 years, it's still changing, and that's a good thing.

Salina: So what do you like about this episode, Nikki?

Nikki: Let's see.

Nikki: Suzanne had a hot streak of funny dialogue at the very beginning of the episode.

Nikki: She said, I don't believe in bisexuals.

Nikki: I figure the rest of us have to choose.

Nikki: Why shouldn't they just made me laugh.

Nikki: Because she lives in this bubble.

Nikki: She just lives in this bubble of it.

Nikki: Is it's black and white?

Salina: Right.

Nikki: I have to choose.

Nikki: Why don't you have to?

Salina: And I've got this opinion and you've got to hear it.

Nikki: You have to hear it.

Nikki: It just made me laugh.

Nikki: By the way, Charlene, do you know where I can get a permit for my pig?

Nikki: Just the assumption that Charlene knows all about pigs and the firms pigs.

Nikki: Oh, permit from my pig.

Salina: Permit?

Salina: I thought you said a permanent permit from my pig.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: The assumption that Charlene knows that sort of thing and the reality that Suzanne needs one was just funny to me.

Nikki: And then when Charlene asked if she was being just a little bit shallow about the hair on her chin, she replied, no, I do not, Charlene.

Nikki: I do not think it's shallow not to want to go through life wearing a goatee.

Nikki: And then I loved her whole bit about the news and how it really appeals to her.

Nikki: It's a little of this, little of that.

Nikki: Nothing goes on too long.

Nikki: I appreciate that.

Salina: I thought you might.

Nikki: It's fully on with her.

Salina: I had a hot feeling that you would appreciate that line of dialogue.

Nikki: I enjoyed all of that.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: So I was really impressed with Shivar Ross in this episode.

Salina: I thought he did a good job playing a little bit of a precocious charming kid.

Salina: And if you think about it, he's in the room with vet actors, and I think he managed to hold his own.

Salina: And I thought he did a really nice job with the more emotional tones.

Salina: Later in the episode between he and.

Nikki: Mishaq Taylor, he was super charming.

Nikki: I would have totally fallen into his net.

Nikki: He could have had everything I have.

Nikki: Just whatever you need, just take it.

Nikki: I loved the twist when Anthony was describing Tyrone's explanation of the rolex and it was exactly what Suzanne had suggested.

Salina: Right.

Nikki: And he was like, I mean, what kind of warped mind thinks like that?

Nikki: I thought that was hilarious.

Salina: Yeah, that was really smartly.

Salina: Done.

Salina: I really felt how touched Tyrone was by Anthony and Julia coming to visit him in juvenile detention.

Salina: And I felt those last moments between them were some of the best in.

Nikki: The episode, for sure.

Salina: As much as there were some things that I was like, oh, gosh, with this one.

Salina: I was just really touched.

Nikki: It was a nice story.

Nikki: She was trying, I think, to mirror Anthony's life experience and all the other things that you've mentioned in this episode notwithstanding, that piece of it held up really nicely for Anthony to kind of see someone like him and see his opportunity to intervene and to be a guiding force.

Nikki: I liked that.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: But my last actual like of the episode was that I really liked hearing more of Anthony's backstory and hearing how this man came to be and what his experience was.

Nikki: And I always just love those stories about the one person who shapes your life and who pushes you and holds you to a standard.

Nikki: I think a lot of us are fortunate to have a network of a lot of people who do that.

Nikki: And so it's hard to point to any one person and say, like, that person did it.

Nikki: But for those people who aren't fortunate enough to have that network and to have that community, it was cool to hear that from him.

Nikki: Yeah, I like those stories.

Salina: And I want to say, too, that one thing that's interesting is I think it just shows the difference between the two of us.

Salina: I was so holding on to the negative part of the story and all the bad things that happened and you really keyed into that support system in his life.

Salina: I probably need to work on myself, is what I'm trying to say.

Salina: This is my last like, I don't really understand why it was a runner necessarily, but the air freshener thing oh, yeah.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: It didn't make a lick of sense when he gives one to the police officer in juvy, where it came from.

Nikki: Why he had it, how it got through security.

Salina: But it sure did let some of the air out of what was about to be an emotional exchange.

Salina: And that part of it I thought worked and just sort of this idea, I guess it's like their way of trying to say, like, he's a little bit of an entrepreneur.

Salina: He's trying he doesn't have a lot of tools at his disposal, but he has a lot of natural tools.

Nikki: Right?

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: So what about what we didn't like?

Salina: So it's weird.

Salina: It's like an Anthony episode that somehow doesn't feel like his episode because he's sharing it with Tyrone now.

Nikki: That's interesting.

Salina: So Tyrone kind of winds up stealing the show not only with his performance because he's the one driving the plot.

Salina: It's more like Anthony feels like a passenger, so he's like, driving the action for Anthony.

Salina: Anthony is reacting to the action.

Salina: So that, to me, just sort of like it was like, all right, we finally get one episode dedicated to Anthony, but it didn't really feel like Anthony's.

Salina: I don't know, but at the end of the day, it's his birthday and at this point we learn more than we ever have about him.

Nikki: So it's interesting that you latch on to him sharing the plot with Tyrone because I guess I'm just on the anti Julia bandwagon because that is all I could think about this whole episode was this freaking idea.

Nikki: Again, if she gets to swoop in and save the day and have a moment because she knows the thing that struck me the most was Anthony expressed he doesn't trust Tyrone.

Nikki: After all these months together, he still just doesn't trust him further than he can throw in.

Nikki: Right.

Nikki: Julia says, I think you're being a little whatever.

Nikki: I can't remember exactly what she said, but don't you think you're being short sighted?

Nikki: And I was like, how dare you come in hearing one half of the story not having lived through this with Anthony and tell him how he feels.

Nikki: That annoyed me.

Nikki: And then she gets to come in and be the voice of reason.

Nikki: I'm putting that in quotes.

Nikki: The white savior that says that puts Anthony on the right path.

Nikki: I love the idea of the Sugar Baker ladies being again part of Anthony's community and part of the people who are holding him up and supporting him.

Nikki: I love that they do that for one another.

Nikki: I love the idea of community.

Nikki: So I don't at all begrudge any one of them from having a conversation with Anthony like you would any friend and say like, I'm just feeling something about the way you feel about this situation.

Nikki: You want to talk about it?

Nikki: Because I think Tyrone's a really good kid.

Nikki: The way Julia does it is so patronizing and so dismissive of his experience.

Nikki: It just drives me crazy and it just makes it annoying to watch because I would have been fine with Charlene saying I really like him, I think he's a really nice kid, but somehow it has to be Julia that's like the fairy godmother and saves everything.

Nikki: Only hearing half the experience.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: Just drives me crazy.

Nikki: That was my one thing I really, really didn't like about this episode.

Salina: Well, I think my last one will tag into that really well, which is it was at the very end I wish Julia had just hugged Anthony and said, let's go home.

Salina: Or maybe like, I've never been more impressed with anyone in my life versus prouder.

Salina: It just carries like a different weight and tone.

Salina: And I do understand she's older than Anthony and I do understand how maybe she will be like the age they're pretending that he is almost old enough to be his mom.

Nikki: Pain is about the same age within a decade.

Salina: Yeah, but at least like an older sister type.

Salina: And there is something between that age gap where it does become almost like a pride thing.

Salina: But I just think it could have been different and I think it would have hit a little different to me.

Salina: I think it's for the very reasons that you're saying, because of the way that she sort of throws her weight around.

Salina: I guess in a very Julia way, it just comes off as a little bit condescending, even though I don't think that's necessarily the way it was meant to be played.

Nikki: And I honestly believe at this point it's almost a disservice to Julia's character some of these things that are happening because I do think that the way she articulates herself, the way she fights for people who don't have the same voice that she has, like it's an early version of an ally.

Nikki: I have a different level of privilege so I'm going to use my platform for the right things.

Nikki: I love that about that character.

Nikki: And it just drives me crazy that we're getting these.

Nikki: And I know everybody needs to be a 360 character and we need to see all their sides, but my gosh, it feels like we've had back to back to back episodes of the bad parts of Julius personality, that it makes it hard when she comes in on something like this.

Nikki: I don't see her as a fairy godmother character.

Nikki: I see her as obnoxious.

Salina: Right.

Salina: But then the episode also gets a player as the hero.

Nikki: Right.

Nikki: Exactly.

Salina: What?

Nikki: Exactly.

Salina: Right.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: That annoyed me.

Salina: I get that.

Salina: So with all that in mind, you want to rate this sucker?

Nikki: I do.

Nikki: My rating scale is those winter green air fresheners.

Salina: That's funny.

Salina: Mine's wall air fresheners.

Nikki: Perfect.

Nikki: We're on the same page.

Nikki: I give it a 4.5 out of five.

Salina: Nice.

Nikki: Let me tell you why.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: So again, all the things you said notwithstanding, I took a smidgen off for cheesiness because I thought it was a little bit cheesy and because Anthony still doesn't have a kid.

Nikki: He just doesn't have a kid and he wants one.

Nikki: But I liked what this like you said earlier in your sidebar, keeping in mind the 1989 perspective, I imagine this episode stood on its own in a lot of ways and in really good ways for the black community.

Nikki: So I appreciate that part of it.

Nikki: Did it age perfectly well?

Nikki: No, but for that time I think it was really nice and I really appreciated getting to see all this other side of Anthony and getting to see him have more opportunity to do even more with what he has now and the life he's built for himself.

Nikki: I just thought that was really nice.

Salina: Very well put.

Salina: I'm so proud of you.

Nikki: Thank you.

Salina: So I gave it three and a half out of five wall air fresheners.

Salina: There's funny moments.

Salina: There's sweet moments.

Salina: I cried.

Salina: I cried twice.

Salina: I thought so.

Salina: Particularly between Julia and Anthony.

Salina: And Anthony and Tyrone.

Salina: For me it was just a little less enjoyable because as much as I want to stay there in 1989, it's hard for me.

Salina: It distracts me a little bit and it's like too much of a reminder that it's 1989 or something.

Salina: And I do agree, maybe it is the cheese factor, too.

Salina: Anytime they're going to pull out the emotional cue music, I'm like, okay, right.

Salina: Maybe this is everybody cue up tears and grab.

Salina: You clean.

Nikki: And you did.

Salina: I did.

Salina: It worked.

Salina: I'm just a sucker.

Salina: So who buttered our biscuits?

Nikki: Anthony times 100,000.

Nikki: He's just a really good man.

Nikki: He's just a stand up human being.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: I think it was an emotional win for Anthony.

Salina: Oh, this is where I talked about I found it.

Salina: My guess again, like I said before, he doesn't talk much about these childhood traumas, so I hope this was cathartic for him.

Salina: Almost like a breakthrough in therapy.

Salina: There you go.

Salina: There it is.

Salina: I know it was somewhere in here.

Salina: I'm also split, though, because in a way, I think it's Tyrone.

Salina: If the system will let him go, he's got Anthony in his life and I think Anthony will truly be there for him, much like we've talked about, even though we won't ever see that.

Salina: And with that in mind, who served us lumpy gravy?

Nikki: Honestly, although I just, like, ripped Julia apart, there really wasn't an obvious candidate on this one for me.

Nikki: So I'm going to actually give it to Suzanne because she totally threw Julia under the bus with the people at the country club when she said it was PMS that made her go crazy and steal from the gas station or whatever.

Nikki: I'm going to call Suzanne out, say that was a pretty terrible move.

Salina: Suzanne is very obsessed with PMS.

Nikki: No, she is.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: It is a thing in life.

Salina: Well, mine was Julia, but it was for a different reason, really, which is this, that she was, like, in the getaway car unknowingly and then on the evening news and that just seems like a lumpy gravy kind of day.

Nikki: It does.

Nikki: That's true.

Nikki: That's kind of crappy 80s things.

Nikki: So there was this whole thing, maybe at the beginning about Jackie Onassis.

Nikki: Oh, yeah.

Nikki: It was at the beginning when she was reading the National Enquirer.

Nikki: Jackie Onassis and Tony Danza getting married.

Nikki: I should have written this down.

Nikki: Tony Danza is an actor from the 80s.

Nikki: He was in charles in charge.

Nikki: Right?

Nikki: No, wrong one.

Salina: Mert.

Nikki: Tony Danza.

Salina: You want me to say yes?

Salina: Okay.

Salina: So he's actually in two really big sitcoms and he was in sitcoms from 78 to 92.

Salina: The first is Taxi and the second is who's the Boss?

Nikki: Who's the boss?

Nikki: Thank you.

Salina: My question for you was going to be, did you watch these shows?

Nikki: I've seen who's the Boss and I've seen Charles In Charge and they feel like the same show to me.

Salina: I never thought about those being because Charles in charge.

Salina: He's like young Tony Danza is a little older.

Salina: He comes in and moves in with his kid.

Salina: So it just feels like they're in different places in their life.

Salina: But now that you're saying that, I guess I can see similarities.

Salina: I mean, Charles in Charge, he was so young that he had chemistry with one of the kids where it almost seemed like they had a relationship that could have perked up at any time, whereas Tony Danza was like a good dirty years older than all the children in the house.

Salina: And I don't know.

Nikki: Anyway, the reason I brought that up was I didn't do a deep dive on Tony Danza, except I can confirm that I didn't find any rumors about Jackie Onassis and Tony Danza getting married.

Salina: No.

Nikki: Or planning to get married or being engaged.

Nikki: But there are two characters out of another time, so I stuck them right in the 80s category.

Nikki: It's where they felt like they fit.

Salina: I think that is accurate.

Salina: It's my very 1st 80s reference.

Nikki: Same thing with Eddie Haskell.

Nikki: We don't have like a 50s reference section, so I'm putting Eddie Haskell in there.

Nikki: What's really funny is that after Charlene gave Suzanne a hard time for not knowing who he was, she gave an explanation for who he was.

Nikki: They just cut it from the episode.

Nikki: So this probably wouldn't necessarily be a reference to really talk about if that line had still been left in there.

Nikki: But she says he was on Leave It to Beaver and he was always buttering everybody up.

Nikki: Truly, that's about the long and the short of it.

Nikki: He was a friend of one of the kids and he always buttered up Miss Beaver.

Nikki: I don't remember her name.

Salina: All of that.

Nikki: Cleaver.

Nikki: June Cleaver.

Nikki: June Cleaver.

Salina: No, Miss Beaver.

Nikki: I think he would always butter her up.

Nikki: The last one I had was a 1987 Lincoln Town Car, which is Julius car, which I got wrong in the last episode.

Salina: No, you got that right.

Salina: Did I got Suzanne's car?

Salina: Suzanne was wrong.

Salina: But also, I'm going to tack on to that the fact that now we know what everyone drives except for Charlene.

Nikki: Oh.

Nikki: What does Anthony drive?

Salina: The delivery, then the women.

Salina: Yeah, I think so.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: My bad.

Salina: But also, did you think that Julia would have driven a Lincoln Town car?

Nikki: 100%.

Nikki: Either that or a Cadillac.

Salina: I had her down as a Cadillac.

Salina: It's close enough.

Nikki: Are they not the same thing?

Salina: I mean, my grandfather worked for GM, so my answer is no, they're not the same thing.

Salina: They're very different.

Salina: It's good that we answered that.

Salina: My only other 80s thing was cassette tapes.

Salina: Gets a mention somewhere, I don't remember where.

Salina: Southern things.

Nikki: I didn't have anything here.

Salina: I have 711.

Salina: Dot, dot, dot.

Salina: I just can't there we go again.

Salina: Classic Southern, 711 example references that we need to talk about.

Nikki: There was a string of Eddie's.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: Eddie Fisher, who was an American singer and actor.

Nikki: He divorced Debbie Reynolds to marry Elizabeth Taylor.

Nikki: Being married to Debbie Reynolds.

Nikki: That makes him Carrie Fisher's father.

Nikki: Carrie Fisher of Star Wars fame.

Nikki: Eddie Cantor, who is a vaudevillian actor and singer and credited with naming the March of Dimes incidentally.

Nikki: He wrote the Warner Brothers cartoon theme song.

Salina: So can I tell you something.

Salina: So your string of Eddie's I would put up against my string of recycled references, eddie Cantor being one of them.

Salina: So we covered him in season one, episode ten.

Salina: But funnily enough, you picked out the two things I thought were the most notable about him, which was The Merry Melodies and The March of Dime.

Nikki: And then the last Eddie, who's actually an Edie, was EDI Amin, who was the Ugandan president in the 1970s, who was considered one of the most brutal dictators of all time.

Nikki: History, said during his rule an estimated 300,000 civilians were massacred.

Salina: He was also known as the Last King of Scotland, which was a name I believe he gave himself and the title of the 2006 movie of the same name, where he is portrayed by Forrest Whitaker.

Nikki: So there you go.

Salina: Look at that.

Salina: Did you have other references?

Salina: I don't want to cut you off.

Salina: Okay, so we also got another recycled reference, Guy Lombardo, only to say that probably should handle the software, but I'm going to handle it right here.

Salina: How do we handle these recycled references?

Salina: I haven't decided, but if you want to learn about Guy Lombardo, I'm going to do it by plugging old episodes.

Nikki: I think that sounds great.

Salina: Season one, episode eleven.

Salina: Go back, you'll love it.

Nikki: Let's reward consistent listeners instead of punishing.

Salina: I like that.

Salina: Kodak cameras.

Salina: I just thought it was kind of a timestamp.

Salina: Yes, you can still buy one, but it's just kind of different today because most people just use their phone to take pictures.

Salina: I think there's only two groups of people that have cameras.

Salina: One are photographers, and the other one would be like really big photography enthusiasts.

Nikki: Photographers.

Salina: Photographers and photographers.

Nikki: That's what it sounded like.

Nikki: No, photography enthusiasts who are like saving them, collecting them.

Salina: No, you're not actually a photographer.

Salina: You're not a professional.

Salina: You're like an enthusiast.

Salina: You really like it a lot.

Salina: It's like a hobby.

Nikki: So what you mean to say is professional and amateur photographers.

Salina: No, what I mean to say is exactly what I said.

Nikki: Salty.

Nikki: Yikes.

Salina: No.

Salina: Yeah, that's what I mean.

Salina: But I just want to see how you'd react.

Salina: And you just laughed at me, which is great.

Salina: That's what happens when you're little.

Nikki: You can't just tell my skin scrawling.

Salina: You're just less scary.

Salina: Bonnie and Clyde is another refer.

Salina: As in Bonnie Parker and Clyde borrow both from Dallas, Texas, which I call in the south.

Nikki: I was going to say that could have been a Southern thing.

Salina: Oh, crap.

Nikki: But an infamous no, you're fine.

Salina: Whatever.

Nikki: You said totally where it meant to be a SIV.

Salina: What I said no.

Salina: Was an infamous couple who went on a legendary crime spree back in the 30s.

Salina: Upon their death, they were both believed to have committed 13 murders and several robberies and burglaries.

Salina: I just think it's interesting that they're still this infamous from the don't know.

Nikki: Wasn't there a movie made about them?

Salina: No, a few.

Salina: A TV show.

Salina: A movie.

Salina: The most famous one had Warren Beatty in it.

Nikki: I'm thinking of an entirely different movie.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: The one where they drive off the cliff in the end.

Salina: Thelma Louise.

Nikki: Thelma and Louise.

Nikki: Oh, my.

Salina: You just really got to work on that.

Salina: Wait a second.

Salina: Have you seen Thelma and Louise?

Nikki: Yes, I think so.

Nikki: I don't think I've seen Bonnie and Clyde.

Salina: I mean, I haven't seen Bonnie and Clyde.

Salina: Just want to make sure you've seen Thelm and Louise.

Salina: Anyways, cut lines three.

Nikki: When Anthony was describing Tyrone's home life and Mary Joe said she just couldn't hear anymore, he then said, yeah, I know Mary Joe, but trust me, the one thing Tyrone does not need is another bleeding heart.

Nikki: That's what he said before.

Nikki: He said he will con you out of your socks after Tyrone sits down.

Nikki: And just before Suzanne asks how old he is, we got a clear look at Tyrone's buttering up of the ladies.

Nikki: Oh, Mrs.

Nikki: Sugar Baker, that's a wonderful outfit.

Nikki: Tell me, what did you all do before you were decorators?

Nikki: Were you some kind of movie stars?

Nikki: How did you know?

Nikki: That's just what we are.

Nikki: Retired movie stars.

Nikki: Tell me, Tyrone, where'd you get this particular line of gab?

Nikki: I guess it just runs in my family.

Nikki: Incidentally, these cookies are delicious.

Nikki: What kind are they?

Nikki: Graham crackers.

Nikki: They're very tasty.

Nikki: And then after the conversation about the tapes that Tyrone gave them, we got another throwback to the Kyle Westheimer situation and an interesting perspective on parenting.

Nikki: Suzanne, this kid's been doing some pretty good work around here and I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Nikki: You know what?

Nikki: I get a kick out of watching Anthony.

Nikki: When Tyrone first started working here, Anthony was awful critical.

Nikki: But now he's just walking around beaming like a proud father.

Nikki: Just goes to show, children become what's expected of them.

Nikki: I don't know.

Nikki: I don't think Kyle Westeimer's parents expected him to like both boys and girls.

Nikki: Thank you, Suzanne.

Nikki: I meant to say children will become what you expect of them, with the exception of the Kyle Westheimer case.

Salina: So Suzanne is both obsessed with PMS and bisexuals.

Nikki: I think bisexuals make her feel a certain way about her femininity.

Nikki: That they wouldn't only want her.

Nikki: Why would they also want a man?

Salina: She's confused.

Nikki: Next Episode episode Ten mr.

Nikki: Bailey, we'd love everyone to follow along with us and engage Instagram and Facebook at Sweet Tea and TV.

Nikki: Our email address is sweettvpod@gmail.com and our website is www.sweettv.com.

Nikki: This is your plug that you can also find ways to support us both on our website.

Nikki: And also another easy way to support us is to rate and or review the podcast wherever you listen.

Nikki: And hang tight for extra sugar.

Nikki: What do we have this week, Salina?

Salina: Well, this week we're going to test our TV trivia knowledge.

Salina: Play along, see how you do.

Salina: And you know what that means.

Nikki: What does that mean, Salina?

Salina: It means it was time for my line.

Salina: And that we will see around the bend.

Salina: So welcome to this week's edition of Extra Sugar.

Nikki: Nikki?

Nikki: Yes?

Salina: Is that time?

Nikki: What time?

Salina: Trivia time.

Nikki: Time for my sweater hands to come out because I get nervous.

Nikki: Are we playing a game or is it just me?

Salina: No, we're going to play a game this time, but I've not played before, so I'm sure we're going to have a little learning curve.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: All right.

Salina: To this point, we've done a few rounds of Southern trivia.

Salina: So this time I thought we'd broaden it to some TV trivia that I accidentally bought Casey for Christmas.

Nikki: Merry Christmas to me.

Salina: Well, he loves trivia.

Nikki: Oh, okay.

Salina: So it was coming from a good place, but TV show trivia showed up hard.

Salina: Well, he was like, what is this for you?

Nikki: So it was supposed to be regular trivia?

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: Amazon man.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: That seems like a gift for you if I ever heard of one.

Salina: But I've not played and it's been.

Nikki: Here six months because you were waiting on me.

Salina: That's right.

Salina: I also thought, what would you think about some steaks?

Salina: S-T-A-K-E-S not S-T-E-A-K-S.

Salina: Well, what if the steaks are steaks?

Salina: I mean, they could be.

Salina: I'm going to throw out two steaks if you want the steaks to be steaks, we can talk about that.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: But I was thinking one would be winner receives a hand delivered caffeinated beverage and one sweet treat from the let's call them not winner.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: I don't like loser not winner.

Salina: Within one week's time.

Nikki: Within one week's time.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: Or two.

Salina: The non winner gets on stories or maybe even on Instagram Live and tells everyone the other is the superior trivia player.

Nikki: Oh, my.

Salina: That would be hard for one of us.

Nikki: It's easy for me to admit when I'm not good at something.

Salina: Oh, yeah.

Nikki: Are you worried about yourself?

Salina: No, I'm fine.

Salina: I'm like I will say it right now that I think that you're probably superior at trivia because you're really good at weeding things out and you're cool under pressure.

Salina: Whereas I'm like, can you read the question?

Salina: Can you read the answer one more time?

Salina: What about the questions?

Nikki: I'm going to go for the oh, there's more.

Salina: Or we could do a duo here, which will be both of those things as the steaks or your last minute suggestion since you didn't know the steaks in the first place, which was just steaks, not Omaha.

Salina: It's too expensive.

Nikki: I guess I'm going to go for number three.

Nikki: I guess it is.

Nikki: Which is the coffee and sweet treat, plus the admission that the other one's superior because I think it's easy to say on Instagram Live that someone is superior.

Salina: Yeah, okay.

Nikki: Seems like a no brainer to me.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: All right, perfect.

Salina: So first we're going to show you the game.

Nikki: Make sure it's not rigged.

Salina: That's right.

Salina: I really want to make sure you understand it's not rigged.

Salina: There is an instruction card.

Salina: That's the only good word I've looked at to this point.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: How to play?

Nikki: It's like one sentence.

Salina: Answer questions, divide into two teams or two opposing players and shuffle the deck.

Salina: Do we need to shuffle the deck?

Salina: Okay, take it in turns.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: To ask the opposing team a question.

Salina: There's three levels.

Nikki: Oh, Lord.

Salina: Difficult.

Salina: Ask the question only medium.

Salina: Ask the question with all four.

Salina: Multiple choice options.

Salina: Or easy, ask the question with just the 50 50 choices.

Salina: See highlighted circles.

Salina: I thought maybe we could do one of each.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: Like, we each go a time.

Salina: Let's go three rounds.

Salina: So each one of us asks, and on each one, maybe we'll start with the easy one.

Salina: If it's too easy, then we'll move up in the range of difficulty.

Salina: Or we could start at the most difficult.

Salina: Just ask the question and see what happens.

Nikki: Can you put the directions right here?

Nikki: I am a visual person.

Salina: Yeah, go ahead.

Nikki: And then if I see the card I think I'll understand what you're saying.

Salina: Do you want me to?

Salina: Does that help?

Nikki: Oh, I see.

Nikki: Okay.

Nikki: So you started with difficult and then went down.

Nikki: That makes more sense to me.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: So we're going to start with just.

Salina: Asking the question, and we're going to see how it goes.

Salina: If it's a ten minute pregnant pause, did you just do one, or did.

Nikki: You go ahead and I just did one.

Salina: Okay, that's fine.

Salina: Well, each time we'll do that, and I'm just going to set that there and then let you ask the first question.

Nikki: In which year did the first episode of Cheers air?

Salina: 1981.

Nikki: 982.

Salina: Oh, come on.

Salina: All right.

Salina: Well, that was pretty close.

Nikki: That was hard.

Nikki: You were very close.

Salina: I'm very disappointed myself.

Salina: Okay, which police procedural is inspired by the real life case of Robert Chambers?

Nikki: Is it a wait, don't give me the answers.

Salina: Right.

Nikki: We're just starting with just reading the thank you.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Sorry.

Salina: I already forgot the Miranda rights.

Salina: Which police procedural?

Nikki: Oh, show.

Salina: I kind of just wanted to say you're wrong.

Nikki: I thought you meant procedure.

Nikki: I thought you meant procedure.

Nikki: Procedural procedure.

Nikki: I'm wrong.

Nikki: Okay, but let me see if I can guess.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: By Tim Chambers.

Nikki: LAPD blue.

Salina: LAPD blue.

Salina: Is that a new show?

Salina: I think you just merged two together.

Nikki: I don't know.

Nikki: No, I think that's a real show.

Salina: Is it okay?

Salina: You want me to tell you the answer?

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: It's been wrong twice now.

Nikki: Time.

Salina: It's law and order, SVU.

Salina: I really thought you were probably going to get that one.

Salina: LAPD blue.

Salina: Is that really okay?

Salina: We don't have time.

Salina: For me, now is not the time.

Salina: I know, I know.

Nikki: Oh, it's my.

Nikki: Turn.

Nikki: Okay, this is hard.

Salina: So what do you want to do?

Salina: Well, let's go down, do the 50 50.

Salina: Okay, we'll do 50 50.

Nikki: What is the name of Harry's daughter in Bosch?

Nikki: Is it Bosch?

Nikki: Bosch.

Nikki: I don't know.

Nikki: Bosch is how you pronounce the appliance.

Salina: So this is your favorite show.

Nikki: Go lunch.

Nikki: Millie or Maddie?

Salina: I've never seen this show before.

Salina: So it's a real 50 50.

Salina: Maddie?

Nikki: That's right.

Nikki: Exciting.

Nikki: You are catty when we're playing trivia.

Salina: Am I?

Nikki: Yes, because you said both mocking me relentlessly.

Salina: You can mock me, too.

Salina: Which series follows the exploits of twin brothers Vincent and Frankie Martino?

Salina: And we're doing 50 50.

Salina: So is it the Deuce or the Americans?

Nikki: The Deuce.

Salina: Good job.

Nikki: Oh, my God.

Nikki: I've never heard of either of those.

Nikki: Is the Americans the one with the girl from Gilmore Girls?

Salina: Carrie Russell, you mean?

Nikki: No.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: In the West Wing, what is the name of the president?

Nikki: Josiah Bartlett or John Hoynes?

Salina: Josiah Bartlett.

Nikki: Yep.

Nikki: Never seen that show.

Nikki: I hate this game.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: Hate everything about it.

Nikki: But I like the 50 50s.

Salina: It's easier.

Salina: I could have gotten that one right on just the question, but I love West Wing, and I really think we need to get you to watch that.

Salina: In the second season of Stranger Things, what is tattooed on Callie's wrist?

Salina: 8008.

Salina: Good job.

Nikki: We literally just talked about how you recently watched Stranger Things.

Nikki: I would have been so angry if you had gotten that question instead of me.

Salina: I didn't know the answer to that.

Nikki: I would never have been able to get it.

Salina: Yeah, that was really tough, I think.

Salina: Yeah, we're done, but I don't know who won.

Salina: It's equal.

Salina: Wasn't it one in one?

Salina: Was it one in one?

Nikki: I think you got two.

Salina: Did I get two?

Nikki: Yeah, because you got Maddie and Josiah Bartlett.

Nikki: I feel like we should go to five.

Nikki: Best out of five.

Nikki: Because we started the 50 50 halfway through.

Salina: Just go until you win.

Nikki: Yes.

Nikki: Pretty much.

Nikki: I'm going to five five and then we'll stop.

Nikki: Okay.

Nikki: Okay, mom.

Nikki: Chicago PD follows officers in which district of the city's police department?

Salina: Chicago PD.

Nikki: Chicago PD.

Nikki: Did that question make sense?

Nikki: You may read which district?

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: Of the city's police department.

Nikki: 18th or 21st?

Salina: Well, I've never seen this show before, so this is just a total guess.

Salina: I don't know why this is making me nervous.

Salina: I'm sweating.

Salina: 21st.

Nikki: Yes.

Nikki: I really want you to win.

Nikki: At this point, I'm only adding extra questions because I'm having fun, but I want you to win because you won the first three, and that was the stakes.

Salina: Omaha steaks.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: Who is also known as the Spider in Game of Thrones?

Salina: Is it Lord Varys or is it Stannis Baratheon?

Nikki: Lord Varys.

Nikki: Good job.

Nikki: I feel like this game is tailor made for you.

Salina: It's because I watch every TV.

Nikki: This is Taylor made for you.

Nikki: This is amazing.

Salina: Only your questions, though.

Nikki: Who is the alter ego of Oliver Queen?

Nikki: Is it the flash?

Nikki: Or is it Arrow?

Salina: Oh, Arrow.

Salina: Okay, that was processing.

Nikki: You're still winning.

Salina: Where are we at?

Nikki: We're at number this will be this will be number five.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: And this is actually the last one because you went first.

Nikki: Yes.

Salina: That's okay.

Salina: In which decade is the first season of Glow set?

Salina: Is it the 70s or the you've got this dog.

Nikki: I'm going to say the wrong one because it's going to be a trick question because I want to say the 80s, but the truth is going to be the first episode aired in 19 or took place in 1979.

Nikki: I'm going with got it.

Nikki: All right.

Nikki: You got four out of five.

Nikki: Right.

Salina: So, what are we doing now?

Salina: Something about you might say who's the best?

Nikki: Oh, Salina is the Superior TV trivia player in the sweet TNTV podcast co host game.

Salina: Also, I watch way too much TV, and that's really what's going on.

Nikki: Congratulations, Salina.

Salina: And that's this week's extra sugar.