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Designing Women S4 E16 - It’s Hot, Bulky, and Starting to Smell

Updated: May 12, 2023

Uh oh, Suzanne’s love of designer clothing – namely, designer clothing made from cute, baby animals – has landed her in some hot water – and an arm sling – on this week’s Designing Women. But, don’t worry, Suzanne’s misfortune ALSO results in a new nanny for Charlene. Even if it was based on a sliiiiiiight misunderstanding…

Come back later this week for an “Extra Sugar” all about the real heroes: working parents. (P.S. Ironically, Salina is dropping in this sentence because Nikki is currently in the middle of her own two-job conundrum, which is why it’s so important for parents to tune in on Thursday for tips AND why the rest of us should listen so that we can be more empathetic humans.)

Here are some of the things we read in preparation for this episode:

Come on y’all, let’s get into it!



Salina: Hey, Nikki.

Nikki: Hey, Salina.

Salina: Hi.

Salina: I'm sorry.

Salina: I forgot where I was.

Nikki: I think I missed my mute push button.

Salina: My bad.

Salina: I just went into a deep hole of thinking.

Salina: It doesn't matter.

Salina: I was trying to remember a date.

Salina: Let me tell you why.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: I've got two things for you.

Salina: Strangely, everything is circulating around a lot of number twos.

Salina: I hear it now.

Salina: Not that kind of number two.

Nikki: Just think.

Salina: Okay, so the week that this episode airs okay, it will be May 8.

Salina: And there's a couple of notable notes that I wanted to mention for you.

Salina: One, I've been wanting to talk to you about this all week, but some stupid job kept getting in the way.

Salina: It doesn't matter.

Salina: It doesn't matter.

Salina: When we hit May 8, we will be two.

Salina: That's your first two days past the coronation of King Charles III.

Salina: This has totally slipped by me until this week.

Salina: That's how busy we've been, you and me, not talking about a British thing.

Nikki: I meant to ask you about it last weekend, but we had our steel magnolia's what's the word for it?

Nikki: Like, spectacular.

Nikki: In the scramble of things, it got lost.

Nikki: But yes, all the pieces have started coming together for me.

Nikki: And it's because my husband got an email from Fortnum and Mason, which is a big department store in London that I love.

Nikki: And it was all about the coronation and all the special items that they're selling around it.

Nikki: So I looked at a couple of things, and it was so cost prohibitive for King Charles, but I was like.

Salina: I wondered if maybe I hadn't heard about you, heard from you on this, because I know you're like a Kate fan and a William fan.

Salina: It's not so weird because these are humans people.

Salina: Yeah, I don't think you have a lot of as much connection to him as you do.

Nikki: I think that's right.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: I think that's right.

Salina: Still a royal event.

Nikki: Yeah, it is true.

Salina: It's like a coronation.

Salina: One hasn't happened in 70 something years.

Salina: The last one was in 1953 or something like that.

Salina: Anyways, it's been a long time.

Salina: I probably shouldn't toss that date out there, but I just did it.

Salina: I am currently considering a coronation quiche.

Salina: Have you looked into it yet?

Salina: So this is like, apparently and I can't imagine what it felt like to try and remind yourself what all the tasks are.

Salina: Right.

Salina: Because if it's been 70 plus years and there's all these things that you have to do because they're very traditional.

Salina: You got like a certain bottle that you use to pour oil on a head.

Nikki: I know something about this.

Nikki: There is apparently it's way back in the back of my brain, there is a person whose entire job it has been to prepare for this coronation even while Queen Elizabeth was still alive.

Nikki: So they've been preparing for it for like a super long time.

Nikki: It becomes easier, I think, to check that box and all those lists if you've been preparing for 25 years.

Salina: Okay, so I don't mean to be morbid, but so it's kind of like how the news outlets will have death articles prepared for people, and that's very similar, actually.

Nikki: And the same thing was true of her funeral.

Nikki: It had all been written in stone years before it happened.

Salina: That's true.

Nikki: You get to a point in life where you sort of know, like, I'm not going to be here forever, probably.

Nikki: Well, how about a major scientific advantage.

Salina: Public memory, especially since a lot of people weren't alive.

Nikki: Oh, I have no idea what has to be done for a coronation.

Salina: So I was listening about it yesterday.

Salina: Fellow Southern podcast Bill Magnolias did a whole thing around the coronation, and I learned a lot about it from there.

Salina: They had a guest on that was talking about it, but good episode.

Salina: What I wanted to talk about was this quiche, though, and the fact that apparently they always have like a centerpiece recipe.

Salina: So the last time this happened, it was Queen Elizabeth, of course.

Salina: Hers was like some kind of curry chicken.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: It looked I tried to look a little closer at it.

Salina: I got confused because you know how to cook and they just call it coronation chicken.

Salina: And I was like, that seems easier.

Nikki: I think coronation cake sounds super easy cake.

Salina: Well, but that can't be the centerpiece of your meal.

Nikki: I mean, it can't, it can be 100% can be.

Salina: Totally can be.

Salina: I think that a lot of people are going to be making several dishes, but this quiche has tarragon, cheddar cheese, spinach and broad beans.

Salina: Beans are new for a quiche for Americans, I think.

Nikki: What kind of beans are broad beans?

Salina: They're good.

Salina: They're kind of like fava beans.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: Fava beans.

Salina: And a nice keante for any of my Hannibal lecture fans out there.

Nikki: So they're a little bit more like, what are those?

Salina: They're good.

Salina: I have them in the pantry.

Salina: I've only ever had them, like, dried and salted, though, I think.

Nikki: Oh, okay.

Salina: It's like a protein snack.

Nikki: It almost looks like a lima bean to me.

Salina: Yeah, I can see that.

Salina: Sure.

Salina: So I don't think about beans being in a quiche, but I'm into it.

Salina: I'm willing to try anything.

Salina: So, I don't know, I was thinking about putting it on the list of things to give a shot.

Salina: But I was going to tell you that apparently Charles and Camilla picked quiche because, quote, it is a good sharing dish and it can be served hot or cold, suits a variety of dietary requirements, and preference can be adapted, and it is not too costly or complicated to make.

Salina: Apparently Charles also likes eggs but is also a part time vegan.

Salina: I was like, well, those are opposing thoughts.

Nikki: Well, part time.

Salina: Part time.

Salina: So part time.

Salina: He's just eating eggs.

Nikki: You know, it's interesting to me, eggs are pretty divisive, and a quiche is like, 90% to 95% egg.

Nikki: So it's interesting that they say it suits a variety of preferences, because I don't think that's true.

Salina: Maybe it suits a variety of British preferences.

Nikki: So maybe eggs are only divisive here in the US.

Salina: Only in the US.

Nikki: I need someone from overseas to weigh in and tell us if that's true because I find eggs very divisive.

Nikki: I have no problem with eggs.

Nikki: They're such a staple food.

Nikki: Like, who doesn't like them?

Nikki: But I can think of my favorite staple food.

Nikki: I can think of five people off the top of my head who don't like eggs, including my husband.

Nikki: Yeah, but he likes a quiche usually.

Salina: Okay, well, does he know what's in it?

Nikki: Yes, he likes the cheese.

Salina: Does he not like runny eggs?

Salina: Is that a thing?

Nikki: Cannot stand runny eggs, which is so funny because that's how I grew up.

Nikki: Eating scrambled eggs was when they're, like, slightly runny.

Nikki: That's my favorite.

Nikki: But he fried me an egg the other day that was runny.

Nikki: So he really put himself out there for me.

Salina: That's the only way for me.

Salina: I mean, I will take I eat eggs always.

Salina: I'll eat it always.

Salina: But if I'm going to choose, I want, like, a poached egg, which I can't do because I'm in the kitchen, I just problems.

Salina: And then I like anything that's like, I like over medium.

Salina: I'm not going to sit here and pretend, like, sunny side up.

Salina: It's a little too much.

Nikki: Too much.

Salina: I want just a thin layer of the white to cook over top.

Salina: But we're not talking about eggs here.

Salina: We're talking about British people who are encouraged to gather with their friends and neighbors for what they call a big lunch on coronation weekend.

Salina: And then that quiche winds up being, again, the centerpiece of these parties.

Salina: I'm going to say one more thing, and I want it to be very clear.

Salina: There's no pressure here.

Nikki: Okay?

Salina: So I'm just going to throw it out there to give you some time to think about whether or not you would want to do something together, because I don't know many other people who will join us in that endeavor.

Salina: I think most people laugh at me.

Nikki: When I mention it.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: So just going to throw that out there.

Salina: It's a low stakes, low pressure situation.

Salina: It wouldn't be the first time that I've rolled out of the bed and enjoyed a royal event on my own, because I promise you Casey won't be involved for that.

Salina: He will be sleeping.

Nikki: So obnoxious to be so early in the morning.

Salina: I understand how rude to do something on your own time zones on the.

Nikki: Old when you know you have such a big international audience.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: There is also the option to record and watch later, but then you have, like, real things going on which actually is what makes us seem kind of ideal, minus the sheer exhaustion that is being this age.

Salina: Minus that.

Nikki: I'll give it some thought.

Salina: I have my number two.

Salina: Number one.

Salina: This is number two with more twos.

Salina: We have our own celebration.

Salina: Two days after this airs on May 10 will be two years since we released the pilot episode of Sweet Tea and TV.

Nikki: Is that all?

Salina: Two years?

Salina: Well, you heard it here first.

Nikki: Wow, two years.

Nikki: That's a milestone.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: So there you go.

Salina: Two.

Salina: Two.

Salina: Too funny.

Salina: Probably not short too long.

Salina: I've never seen less excitement.

Salina: Give her time, guys.

Nikki: Give her time.

Nikki: It'll process.

Nikki: It'll land.

Salina: She hasn't had all the time.

Salina: I've had to look at this.

Nikki: I've been confused just in general about time.

Nikki: But I've been thinking recently, for some reason, I keep feeling like we started.

Salina: In 2020 because we were planning then.

Nikki: Maybe that's what it is.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: I think later in the year we started what it is.

Salina: We started more seriously talking about it.

Salina: So I think that is part of the confusion.

Nikki: That's exciting.

Nikki: Two years.

Nikki: I think you'd rather hear my authentic reaction than me faking it.

Nikki: I think I'm in processing mode.

Nikki: Yeah, I wasn't prepared for you to lay that information down on me.

Salina: Well, sometimes I like to make it a little organic.

Nikki: I appreciate that about you, Celine.

Nikki: And here it is, my organic.

Nikki: I think that's exciting.

Salina: It's kind of like the reaction to anything, though.

Salina: It's okay.

Salina: As I was saying, and I was like, god, I hope I'm right on this.

Salina: So let me say this.

Salina: Speaking of anniversaries, we have one more.

Salina: We have an anniversary that technically takes place in this episode.

Salina: Just see if we hold on.

Salina: Just wait for it.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: The anniversary of Julia Mooning.

Salina: Everyone fashion show is really like, something that gets mentioned in this episode.

Salina: And with that in mind, is it time, nikki, maze to take your clothes off over there.

Salina: And then also to talk about the fur flies.

Nikki: I thought you were going to use the part time vegan Charles connection to.

Salina: Connect to this episode.

Salina: I went with something more challenging, more loosely connected.

Nikki: Someone who is not even a part time vegan is Suzanne.

Salina: That's right.

Nikki: Who is this episode's main almost main character, main storyline.

Nikki: So this is the fur flies.

Nikki: Suzanne is assaulted by animal rights activists while she's modeling a fur during a fashion show.

Nikki: And Charlene is forced to look for a new nanny.

Nikki: Sorry, I've read this before.

Nikki: That's the first time I've read it where I'm like, that should have just been its own sentence.

Salina: Maybe you don't have to take it out.

Salina: With IMDb.

Nikki: Charlene is forced to look for a new Nanny air date January 15, 1990 we're calling this one it's hot, bulky, and starting to smell, which is what you're acknowledging right now as I'm trying to get my sweatshirt off without hitting the mic too many times.

Salina: Why don't you just yeah, we're going to hear sorry, guys.

Salina: It's just me and you.

Salina: Everyone.

Salina: Just me and you.

Salina: As Nikki unrobes disrobes, she was wearing her fur jacket and she wanted to take it off because it felt very inappropriate to wear a full mink jacket while we're talking about how an episode.

Nikki: About fur that would have been so funny if I really did wear a mink jacket.

Nikki: Oh, thanks, guys.

Nikki: Sorry, I was dying.

Nikki: All right, so this one was written by Pam Norris and directed by Hal Holbrook.

Salina: That's been a while.

Salina: I didn't think about that.

Salina: Tua saw it again this morning.

Salina: What's that?

Salina: Pam Norris directed.

Nikki: Oh, Hal.

Nikki: Okay.

Nikki: Can I ask you a question before we start?

Salina: Probably.

Nikki: Generally speaking, does this storyline about fur coats feel, like, inherently 90s?

Salina: Absolutely.

Salina: It is in one of my 90s reactions, but we can have the conversation now if you want.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: Well, there's probably not that much to say, except I feel like maybe that fur has just become this almost, like, passe thing.

Nikki: You hear it every now and then when one random misguided celebrity decides to wear it out.

Nikki: And I say misguided only because they always get backlash.

Nikki: So I'm not really sure what they're trying to do by wearing it.

Nikki: I mean, of course, they may just truly enjoy it, but if they care at all about their public perception and persona, maybe they just shouldn't wear it.

Salina: What if I told you that I was trying to think like you?

Salina: Feels like a song.

Salina: You want to write some songs?

Salina: Let's do it.

Salina: Let's add something to the so I was curious as we sometimes get, like, why are we covering this?

Salina: It feels like there's some current events that are going on.

Salina: It's making LBT think of this.

Salina: This is something that comes up often, but I think you're really the one who pushed me to think more like that as we're looking through the show.

Salina: And so this time, I don't mean in an aggressive way, but it just.

Nikki: Made shoving you into your thinking in.

Salina: A new way, history.

Salina: So I went and I pulled some things that are from a couple of months before this episode.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: And we'll talk about it in references, if that's okay.

Salina: I suppose.

Nikki: Sure.

Nikki: But yeah, as I was watching this episode, I was just thinking, like, I'm not guilty of watching a ton of new television, but I don't know that this is a storyline that would be as relevant today.

Salina: It is absolutely of its time.

Salina: It was a very astute observation.

Salina: Well, thank you.

Salina: I hope that sounded real.

Salina: I meant it.

Nikki: It didn't, but thank you.

Salina: It's only because I'm exhausted.

Nikki: What was your general reaction to this episode?

Salina: It's in line with what you're saying, so you teed me up.

Nikki: Thank you.

Salina: We're only on the third episode in the we are immediately treated to not one, but two environmentally conscious things, like within the first two minutes, the first, like, commentary on cloth diapers.

Salina: And Charlene specifically says that disposable ones aren't recyclable or biodegradable.

Salina: She also mentions that I don't care, I'd rather than put in a landfill.

Nikki: Because this is toxic, except I'm still doing it.

Salina: Yeah, because that's charlene.

Salina: And then of course, the whole fur thing also has environmental implications in addition to animal protections and rights and that kind of thing.

Salina: So I just thought it felt like we had entered a new era.

Salina: I don't remember us all of the progressive things that this show talked about for its time, I don't think we had really touched environmental stuff.

Nikki: I think that's true.

Salina: And so it just felt like I was like, we have arrived.

Salina: I don't know who we are.

Salina: It just felt like it's here 90.

Nikki: I think the cloth diaper thing, I thought about thinking about it more and then just decided I was going to compartmentalize that.

Nikki: Because I think because I just recently had kit, recently have kids, I have small kids.

Nikki: I've just recently been through the diapering phase of my life.

Nikki: And let me tell you, cloth diapers were not the way we went.

Nikki: I have certainly encountered conversations that have made me feel guilty about not going that route.

Nikki: And so I think for me it's a little bit of a triggering conversation.

Salina: Well, let me say something right now that I feel like is relative to this conversation and something I think this episode did a really good job doing, and that is capturing this idea that you do one thing to try and help and you hurt another.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: And so one thing that I remember my grandma telling me years ago, don't recall while we were talking about diapers, I'm sure she was like, can I have some great grandchildren?

Salina: Was that yes, you can use cloth diapers, and that's great, and how noble of you.

Salina: On the other hand, have you thought about how much water you have to use?

Salina: So I'm just saying, it's like one thing begets another.

Nikki: All a trade off because all of it's unnatural.

Salina: Right.

Salina: And I think we've had this conversation before, but it can be overwhelming.

Salina: Like, you want to be a good person, you want to care, and at the same time it just feels like no matter what you do, you're getting like a swift kick in the crotch.

Salina: That's life.

Salina: Yeah, that's life.

Salina: Now that's a song.

Salina: Like, for instance, just grocery bags you go and you get the ones that you can keep or whatever.

Nikki: Reusable.

Salina: Thank you.

Salina: This is going to be a really interesting several hours as you have to tell me words, okay?

Salina: And you find out like, well, you need to use them for ten to twelve years or those will also wind up in a landfill and then everyone will die.

Salina: And I mean, you just sort of get to this point where you're I think people should be really cautious about the way that they approach and like, with less judgment.

Salina: Because when we come at it with a high amount of judgment, I think people, especially if they're more stubborn in nature, you've just lost somebody like that.

Salina: So anyways, bringing it back to the episode, I feel like they did a nice job of capturing how complicated that conversation can be.

Nikki: Yeah, I agree.

Nikki: Did we finally get some insight into Suzanne's actual financial situation when she's a $1,300 coat?

Nikki: Julia said she poor mouths to get discounts.

Nikki: So is it possible she's actually not.

Salina: Poor and low on funds?

Nikki: Is it possible she actually is more financially well off because we've had this whiplash?

Nikki: Like, is she, isn't she?

Nikki: And maybe she's not.

Salina: There are things in the universe, Nikki, that we are not meant to know.

Nikki: We're never to know.

Salina: I was going to say how the pyramids were made, but we know that.

Salina: I can't trouble think of the things we don't know.

Nikki: As of this morning, I would have said how the dinosaurs died, but I saw a TikTok video where someone explained that to me in three minutes or less.

Salina: How the dinosaurs died.

Salina: Oh, isn't that nice?

Salina: So TikTok is like three minutes or less and we're like 3 hours or more.

Nikki: True.

Salina: It's like you can have it all.

Nikki: We're an accompaniment.

Salina: Okay, so here's another general reaction that I had, which was so I often complain.

Salina: Complain is maybe strong.

Salina: I will comment on the fact that we hear but do not see.

Salina: So we didn't see what happened to Julia, but in this case, we get to see what happened to Suzanne.

Salina: And so I just wanted to say that I just feel like I need to stop and recognize that oh, that's nice.

Salina: Since I do what I would call like, light touch complaining.

Salina: And even though I've also said that sometimes it's funnier to hear it versus see it, but we got to see it this time.

Salina: And just kudos to Pam North.

Salina: Something.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Thank you, Pam.

Salina: Thank you.

Nikki: The last general reaction I had was just that this episode was so twisty and turny.

Nikki: And I love the twisty turny episodes, usually.

Nikki: So we got the mix up with the lady from the organization.

Nikki: They thought she was maybe Constance Pine, the nanny.

Nikki: And then we got the mix up with Suzanne and Constance at the end.

Nikki: And I just loved how I don't know, I'm not always the most astute at predicting things.

Nikki: I didn't see any of that coming, necessarily, so it surprised me.

Salina: Same.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: Just did a good job covering it, I think.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: We're doing 18 things while watching it doesn't matter anyways.

Salina: It got me too.

Salina: I'm a sucker for that kind of thing.

Salina: Those are actually in my likes and I really, really enjoyed suzanne Steltaburke is an excellent deadpan, and when they use her to do that.

Salina: And the way that she talks about the baby, it is just wonderful.

Salina: I thought her name was Olivia.

Salina: Oh, yeah, that's right.

Salina: I don't know, I just put earplugs in it's no problem at all.

Salina: Just the whole thing is really nice.

Salina: I also like the fact that I thought it was a little bit of a twist there because I think they could have said for the nanny that she just was not going to take the job.

Salina: Like, this woman's nuts.

Salina: And I thought it was a nice twist that she was like, I absolutely need me.

Nikki: Yeah, that was very funny.

Salina: That was really good.

Salina: I wanted to throw in my last general reaction is sort of like it really harkens back to the conversation that we've already had.

Salina: But I think this is a really important part of understanding the complicated nature of some of these more just squishy issues, like environmentalism or animal squishies, if you will.

Salina: Did you just come up with that?

Salina: I did.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: I really like that squishies.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: Remember this?

Salina: Nikki Write that down.

Salina: Future Nikki.

Salina: So I'm not entirely sure how to say this, but I like how the show addressed that animal protection can be filled with hypocrisy.

Salina: So we talk about, like we care about nutria, which that's in my references and have thoughts, but we're going to zap a rat in our house without one question asked.

Salina: They're both rodents, by the way.

Salina: I know it's not that black and white, but still, I like that the show found a way without beating you over the head this time, because the mileage on that varies, I think.

Salina: But in this circumstance, I think we're back to the way that when this show does a good job with that, they do a really good job with that.

Salina: And I thought that was happening here.

Salina: And I have this thought a lot, too, which is just really interesting from like a human psychological cultural marker, which is this idea that we sort of think about animals in different degrees, too, in terms of like, I'm not eating a horse.

Salina: Not that there aren't cultures that don't, and I don't have an opinion on that.

Salina: It's not my opinion to have, and it's not my right to weigh in on that.

Salina: But here in America, we would find that very odd to chow down on a horse.

Salina: Okay, I can't even say it without feeling really weird about it or like a dog, but at the same time, pigs are one of the smartest animals out there, and I'm eating bacon for some regularity.

Salina: So I just think it's interesting how that works and how we make sense of things in our minds.

Salina: Fascinating.

Nikki: You know who I think would have a good opinion on this?

Nikki: The future King Charles, as a partly.

Salina: You'Re going to say that?

Salina: Yes.

Nikki: Feel like he might have some thoughts for us.

Salina: Now, I have this on part time lover in my head now.

Salina: Oh, no, you're welcome.

Salina: That's probably going to come out at some .2.

Nikki: Things I didn't need paired together.

Nikki: Stray observations?

Salina: Yeah, I have a couple of cut.

Nikki: Lines I wanted to share.

Salina: Oh, please.

Nikki: When Suzanne asked Anthony if he thought her fur coat was gross, there were actually some cut lines before he talked about them being ugly if they were cheap.

Nikki: He also said, Well, Suzanne, it's been my experience in life that nothing is gross if it costs enough money.

Nikki: If caviar were cheap, then it would be gross.

Nikki: Just gross.

Nikki: Old, poor people sitting around eating disgusting, gross fish eggs.

Nikki: The same goes for frog legs, escargot, and truffle snorted out of the ground by pigs, which I thought was just an interesting commentary on the point he was making.

Salina: I love that because it's like a lot about the market.

Salina: Right?

Salina: Right.

Nikki: Branding and marketing, if you will.

Salina: Influencers.

Salina: You know what I'm saying?

Salina: Because there's always been influencers.

Nikki: Right.

Salina: I know that's a word that we love to overuse now, but they've always existed just in different forms that sort of plays into the wealth and the position and all of that as well, I think.

Salina: So I thought it was a really good point.

Nikki: There were more cut lines in the conversation between the women about animal rights.

Nikki: So after Suzanne said Mary Joe had their rats snuffed out in her attic, I think Mary Joe said, well, it wasn't like I made him into a muff later.

Nikki: But you do have a point.

Nikki: I mean, if you believe that animals have rights, then that should be all animals, not just the cute ones.

Nikki: I mean, it is a little hypocritical.

Nikki: I mean, it's like saying only attractive people have rights.

Nikki: And then Julius suzanne said, yeah, well, I believe that, too.

Nikki: So it's just hypocrisy all the way around.

Salina: Absolutely.

Nikki: And I appreciated that.

Nikki: Mary joe acknowledged it.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: And maybe and this is one of those situations, too, where that acknowledgment might have been helpful to not have been clipped out of the show, but here we are.

Salina: Correct.

Salina: Suzanne's mink coat was $10,000.

Salina: Then that means it would be at least $23,000 today.

Salina: So, I mean, in addition to the animal rights, very golf prohibitive.

Salina: Good Lord.

Nikki: I don't know that I've ever been able to figure out when a fur coat is climatically necessary.

Nikki: Like in Russia in the winter, maybe, but like in Atlanta in the winter, I'm not sure you need a mink coat.

Salina: This is the thing we've talked about, right?

Salina: Like with Suzanne, she'll come in in the furs.

Salina: This has been built into the character for a long time.

Salina: It's just now that we're addressing the other side of it, and I acknowledge.

Nikki: That it's not about practicality, it's about fashion.

Nikki: I acknowledge that.

Nikki: Yeah, but you're wedding and like $23,000, you could spend that on so many other things.

Salina: Yes.

Salina: I mean, we still will spend the money.

Salina: Don't worry.

Salina: Crazy.

Salina: It's crazy.

Nikki: And I know Julia talks a little bit about the fur coat that she inherited from her grandmother.

Nikki: So there is some element of tradition with it and heritage, which I understand, but going and buying a brand new one.

Salina: Well, by that point, don't throw it out.

Nikki: Right.

Nikki: Been long dead.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: In fact, I'll talk a little bit about this, too, but when we get to references but I had watched some PETA thing in preparation for the episode, and one of the things they were encouraging at the time was like, don't throw your fur away.

Salina: Go take it to go take it to Goodwill or someplace where it can be reused by someone.

Salina: Yes, there's lots I have about 18 thoughts there, but I do think it's well, if someone is somewhere cold, I mean, it might look a little strange.

Salina: And there is definitely a tone deafness.

Nikki: I think I need a little more context to that recommendation.

Nikki: Just recommending, like, Salina fur is bad.

Nikki: Take your fur to Goodwill.

Nikki: Let someone else have it.

Salina: That's right.

Nikki: It's weird.

Salina: That's weird.

Salina: Take it upita.

Nikki: No, thank you.

Salina: I had some logistical questions.

Salina: How is Suzanne keeping on the fur and Julia is washing her?

Salina: I think I would let that one go at that point.

Salina: I would be like, if you are going to be so stubborn that you want to keep this jacket on, like a little weirdo, then you're going to smell and we're going to keep you upstairs.

Nikki: That's true.

Salina: Because you're stinky.

Nikki: That's true.

Salina: And it feels like she still has one hand free.

Nikki: Just saying.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Also, this is like, did Suzanne have a Julia style rant in this one with Miss Dawes?

Salina: Like when she just loses it about being in the in Suzanne's way, dogs are following her down the street because she smells.

Salina: There's, like added layers of irony there.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: As she's talking to the animal rights person.

Salina: But I just thought that it felt Julia yes.

Salina: In her tone.

Salina: But this thing where she just goes on and on and on about something.

Nikki: Just spirals a little bit.

Nikki: Yeah, that's a good point.

Salina: She did.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: I mean, if I had had a pullover, like, mink coat on for any amount of time.

Salina: Any amount of time, yeah.

Salina: I would definitely be moody.

Salina: The idea of a pullover jacket.

Nikki: So she says, like, early in the episode, this is not in my notes at all, so I'm going totally off memory.

Nikki: But she's like, Mary Joe's, like, what is with that jacket?

Nikki: That's weird.

Nikki: And she goes, it's designer.

Nikki: I don't think that's a lot of forethought for a designer because that would totally mess a person's hair up.

Nikki: And the person likely to be wearing that jacket probably cares a little bit about their hairstyle.

Salina: She also said it was an after dinner pullover.

Salina: Mean, like, what does that even mean?

Salina: What does that mean?

Salina: I actually.

Salina: Tried to look it up, I couldn't find anything because I was like, Is this, like, a thing?

Salina: But recently I was listening to something where they were talking about how during the Victorian era, everything became, why have three forks?

Salina: Why not have twelve?

Salina: Have one just for thought and care.

Salina: Have one for every single course.

Salina: Everything just got more and more yes, fancy, but also ornamental and a little just difficult next to it.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: And it feels like maybe this is part and parcel to something like that.

Salina: Like, well, you got to have your dinner jacket.

Salina: You have to dinner jacket.

Salina: You pre dinner jacket.

Salina: And we do know that people used to change multiple times throughout the day.

Salina: Sometimes I'm like going a couple of days.

Nikki: I change a lot throughout the day.

Salina: Oh, really?

Nikki: From workout clothes to work clothes.

Salina: Oh, that's true.

Nikki: Back to comfy clothes and then to my pajamas, because it feels weird to be in pajamas before the sun goes down.

Nikki: So I need something in between.

Salina: This is slightly different than the Titanic version of that, but I do hear it's still laundry, is it not?

Nikki: It is.

Nikki: That laundry.

Nikki: Amen.

Nikki: I have a couple of guest stars I wanted to just mention.

Nikki: So Lois Foriker, who played Annette Dawes, which was the was the organization Paw, or was it something longer than that?

Salina: People, against the abuse of people against abuse of animals or something.

Nikki: I wrote it down the first time as Pata, and then the second time they mention it, they say it's that Paul lady.

Nikki: And I didn't know if I don't remember whatever organization she's with, it's her.

Salina: The PETA stand in, you mean?

Nikki: Right.

Nikki: She was in Gremlins Child Play Three and The Exorcist Three, which is so funny because she did look very she looked like just a person you would see in a horror movie.

Nikki: Like, I always think of that kindly old lady in might have even been The Exorcist one.

Nikki: And she has that very nice voice, and she's a very lovely old lady, but every one of those scary movies needs an old lady.

Nikki: That, in this case, was Lois Foriker.

Nikki: And then Pat Crawford brown played Constance Pine.

Nikki: The only reason I'm bringing her up is because she was also in Mama's Family, which is another one of my favorite obscure TV shows.

Salina: She looked really familiar.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: If I recall correctly, that was the only thing that was, like, really sticking out to me in her filmography.

Nikki: But it could have been that I'm biased by Mama's Family.

Salina: As soon as I just saw that.

Nikki: And everything else, I know her, it all just went away.

Salina: Got it.

Nikki: That was my last stray.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: You want to talk about what you liked?

Salina: Sure.

Nikki: I have a much longer list of things that I liked than things I didn't like.

Nikki: Spoiler alert.

Salina: Oh, that's good.

Nikki: I really liked how Bill said he would take her, but reminding us that his job is flying fighter jets.

Nikki: I liked the way that they positioned that he really does have this job where it's a little bit challenging for him to take a baby because of the tug of, like, mom being the default parent, which we'll actually talk about, incidentally, in this week's Extra Sugar.

Nikki: But that tug of mom always being the one that has to make that choice to take care of the kid.

Nikki: And in this case, there was an actual, real logistical reason for it.

Salina: Sure.

Nikki: The US Navy just really doesn't want them or Air Force or whatever.

Nikki: Just really doesn't want them.

Salina: It seems hard, his job.

Salina: Yes.

Salina: But also it seemed like it was hard for him to leave.

Salina: Yes.

Salina: He didn't want to leave.

Nikki: And I've been a little bit down on Bill because sometimes they just make him feel so cheesy.

Nikki: But I really like that.

Nikki: I also really appreciated Suzanne's arguments about animal rights.

Nikki: You pointed this out a little while ago.

Nikki: She was just on fire with it, and she was pointing out the hypocrisy in really spot on ways, which Suzanne man, you've said before, we don't really know what we're doing with her character.

Nikki: This is probably the version I like the most, where she is simultaneously shallow and very full of depth all at one time.

Nikki: I really appreciate that.

Salina: Right.

Salina: They do use her in a really smart way like that to make points that maybe are the hard points to make.

Nikki: I have a couple more likes.

Salina: You got all my likes earlier, so thank you for doing that.

Salina: Sorry.

Salina: Don't be sorry.

Salina: It's done.

Salina: Check.

Nikki: Mary Joe called out mary Poppins lack of good nannying.

Nikki: I have heard that since this show was filmed.

Nikki: Like, I've heard people say, like, she's not that great of a nanny.

Nikki: But I just appreciated that she said it.

Nikki: It's true.

Nikki: She did a bunch of things that you would look at and be like.

Salina: That'S kind of crappy.

Nikki: Right.

Salina: Also, that 90s endangerment thing, it did feel very like we were entering the era that we're going to sue the pants off of everyone for everything, where.

Nikki: We actually worry about things.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: And it's not as fun.

Nikki: Suzanne Sass on the runway, I wanted to mention where they say 50 living creatures died to make that coat.

Nikki: And she goes, Want to make it 51?

Nikki: And then she fell off and said, okay, that's it.

Nikki: I'm mad now.

Salina: I know.

Salina: And you could tell that was they had added it in later on.

Nikki: It felt very tasty voiced, over.

Salina: But it was so funny the way she said it.

Salina: I could let go that you could tell that the audio was I couldn't.

Nikki: Tell if they did that because they thought of it later or if they did that for logistical reasons.

Nikki: Like, she's hard to mic when she's down on the floor under people.

Nikki: The last thing I liked that I wanted to mention was Charlene's conundrum about animal rights based on her childhood in the country.

Nikki: This gets at the squishies.

Nikki: You talked about how these things are just really complicated, and you've got to make sacrifices in one place to do something another place.

Nikki: Sometimes you have to look over a little bit of hypocrisy because you're trying to be a better person, but you also know the other side.

Nikki: It can be challenging, complicated.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: I also kind of like that whole animal approach.

Salina: This is coming from someone who I don't really know.

Salina: But I shouldn't be like, an expert.

Salina: I don't hunt.

Salina: It's not like I go pick out my own eggs.

Salina: I do it's just from the grocery store.

Salina: But I think my point is, I remember even as a kid, learning about American Indians and the idea that every part of that animal was used for a purpose.

Salina: And even at, like, seven or eight years old, that stuck with me because I thought that was such a great concept.

Salina: And if we're approaching life like that and using things in a way that's meaningful like that and thinking about what we're doing, I think we're doing something right.

Nikki: Circle of life, man.

Salina: Why did you do that?

Salina: Start singing part Time Lover to you.

Nikki: Speaking of things that you don't like, my singing, what did you didn't like in this episode?

Nikki: Salina?

Salina: This is like one of those things I just don't always have things I just straight up don't like.

Salina: I think that's kind of weird.

Salina: There were times where and I feel like this way we're doing a string of episodes today where sometimes I'm just foreshadowing a little bit here where things maybe didn't feel entirely cohesive to me, where maybe things just feel very much so.

Salina: Like a play.

Salina: Like, too much.

Salina: Like, now Mrs.

Salina: PhilPop will come in now this character will come in where it just doesn't necessarily feel natural.

Salina: But other than that and that was just like, again, like, really nitpicky.

Salina: It's fine.

Salina: That was the only thing I had.

Nikki: What about you had nothing.

Salina: Nothing.

Salina: Are we about to get something real high and you're rating here?

Nikki: I don't think so.

Salina: Oh, okay.

Nikki: No, I'm nervous.

Salina: Once you rate it for us.

Nikki: So my rating scale is moral how do you do?

Nikki: And this was from Suzanne's line.

Nikki: I don't know.

Nikki: I guess they thought I'd get some sudden moral how do you do?

Nikki: About fried pork when she was talking about having her pig and still eating pork rinds.

Salina: Well, I haven't done this in a while.

Salina: I have no rating scale.

Salina: I forgot to rate it.

Nikki: How do you feel about moral?

Salina: How do you do?

Salina: I love it.

Nikki: I'm so glad it happened to you once.

Nikki: It happens to me a lot.

Salina: I told you.

Salina: It's been a week.

Salina: So four out of five moral, how do you do for me, then, I.

Nikki: Gave it a four out of five also.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: I thought it was cute.

Nikki: It was funny.

Nikki: It was a fun watch.

Nikki: I don't have anything bad to say about it.

Nikki: I didn't feel like it was the best of the best or anything, but it was good.

Nikki: I would watch it again.

Salina: Yeah, I think this is a season, too, where I'm finding that I'm liking them more on rewatch than initially.

Salina: And I wonder some of that is too.

Salina: Like, you and I go through.

Salina: We do this cursory watch, and we're just running through them, and then I wonder things are getting jingle jangled in my head.

Nikki: I would so much rather have ten four out of fives than nine two or three out of fives and 110.

Nikki: And I've had, like, a series of, like, 3.75 four.

Nikki: I would so much rather watch a season that's balanced in that way than maybe some of the previous seasons we've watched where I've had some episodes where I'm just like, I never want to watch that again.

Nikki: And this series that we're recording today has been a series of episodes where I'm like, I'd watch that again, all the pressure off, not having to focus on it for the podcast, I would watch it again.

Nikki: It's a fun watch.

Nikki: It made me laugh.

Nikki: There was lots of things that were said in this episode that made me laugh.

Nikki: So it's a good, solid four.

Salina: Yeah, I'm with you all that.

Salina: I have many more likes than dislikes, but it also doesn't meet my criteria of just being, like, the tops of the tops, and that makes four seem really darn good.

Salina: So we've already talked a lot, I think, today about 90s things, but is there anything else that really kind of rose to the top for you?

Nikki: Suzanne said, Mary Joe, you are just so out of it.

Nikki: In Steel Magnolias, which we just recently rewatched, truvi said, Get with it.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: And then I love the movie Son in Law, like, a lot.

Nikki: There's a line in there where the girl says, you're just so out of it.

Nikki: Connie in the was something.

Nikki: It was just a lot of you're out of it.

Nikki: Get with it.

Nikki: Whatever it is, was a 90s thing.

Nikki: And Son in Law was like a 1993 movie, so it's all sort of in the same wheelhouse.

Salina: Sure.

Nikki: That was my only 90s thing.

Salina: Okay, well, I think one thing that I was thinking about is I was going back through, and I looked a lot at too much.

Salina: It's a real big rabbit hole.

Salina: You all at some of that anti fur activism that was happening in this time period, and just, like, the groundswell of more broadly animal activism was that I sort of forgot, and it's probably because I was a little kid, so it's not something I was really thinking about.

Salina: But it was definitely a time period when the news was very interested in covering the more controversial activism, probably because that was, like, juicy.

Salina: The old.

Salina: If it bleeds, it leads.

Salina: So if someone did something that was maybe a little further than they should have gone, that's the thing that they wanted to cover.

Salina: And so I was noticing a lot of that.

Nikki: It's almost like the media wants to polarize us.

Salina: Isn't it weird they were also kind of throwing around the term terrorist?

Salina: And I'm just going to say that as someone who is living in a post 911 world, terrorism has a very different meaning.

Salina: Yes.

Salina: And so it really hit me in a weird way to read that make.

Nikki: You think maybe the were just a much safer feeling time.

Salina: We always think that 20 years later.

Nikki: No, you talked about that recently.

Salina: I also think that there were instances, I believe, where people would blow things up.

Salina: So, I mean, that is that they thought were, like, inappropriate, like, they were doing things that were violent.

Salina: So I want to be very cautious in what I'm saying here.

Salina: I'm not saying that some bad things didn't happen.

Salina: I'm just saying, like, someone who's like, no fur, no fur and being called a terrorist.

Salina: This is weird.

Salina: This just feels weird.

Salina: And then I'm like, oh, this is of a very different era.

Salina: Hence the 90s, right?

Salina: What about Southern things?

Nikki: The only southern thing that I noticed was the reference to Mary Joe's Kudzoo.

Nikki: And I don't want to be, like, super botanical necessarily, but just for folks who don't live in the south.

Nikki: I started, and then I was like, nobody cares.

Nikki: The bottom line is, in the south, kudzu is like, it's a weed like vine that grows very aggressively.

Nikki: And if you drive through a rural area in particular, you will see it draped over the trees.

Nikki: And in my research, I did see that it will not grow past a certain level in the United States, like a certain zone, because it's too cold.

Nikki: So the furthest north they've seen it is maybe like, in Illinois or something.

Nikki: So it is very much a Southern phenomenon.

Salina: I don't know if you saw this in your research, so I'm pulling this out of the memory bank.

Salina: So dangerous.

Salina: But I thought at some point I had heard that maybe it came over after World War II or something.

Nikki: I can't remember the time period.

Nikki: I think it was earlier than that.

Nikki: I think it was the early 19 hundreds.

Nikki: It was the what did they call it?

Nikki: The World's Fair.

Nikki: It was brought over as, like, a sample from I think it's an shoot gosh.

Nikki: I should have written some things down.

Nikki: Came from another country.

Salina: I didn't think anybody would be interested.

Salina: I got so many questions about Kudzoo.

Salina: Well, I'm glad that you mentioned it, because I think that's something that is so entrenched in our experience.

Salina: I don't think of it as a Southern thing.

Salina: I just think of it as kudzu.

Salina: Yeah, that thing that's kind of pretty kind of weird.

Nikki: It's super eerie.

Nikki: If you're in a rural area and you see everything covered with kudzu.

Nikki: If you're driving down a highway kind of in the mountains, it has overtaken full on homes and covered them.

Nikki: There is a I think it's an urban legend, I believe, but there is a story, a tale that Jimmy Carter, the most southern of the presidents in the United States, took kudzu as a gift to Japan or Korea or something like that, and that is how it got introduced in their country.

Nikki: And it's a very invasive vine.

Nikki: Like I said, maybe an urban legend.

Nikki: I did not do very much research on that.

Nikki: I didn't do any research on that.

Nikki: I probably shouldn't have brought it up.

Nikki: But I have heard that story so many times over the years.

Salina: Well, since we raised the question.

Salina: By we, I mean me.

Nikki: Me.

Salina: It was 1876 when it came here as part of the Philadelphia Centennial Exposition, which sounds world fearish, one of those things.

Salina: And it's native to Japan and Southeast China.

Nikki: Okay, so there's somewhere Jimmy Carter took it that's not Japan and Southeast China, where the rumor is that he introduced it there, thinking it was oopsie poopsie.

Nikki: A nice little taste of her.

Salina: Well, you got to hate it when the thumbnails, which is hilarious, then really a nice little taste of this thing that wasn't ours to begin with.

Nikki: And that everybody's.

Salina: How would you like a pine tree, too?

Salina: Because I don't think those are native to Georgia either.

Salina: I think those also got brought over.

Salina: It gets confusing when a lot of years pass, and I think you've tapped.

Nikki: Out my extensive botanical knowledge.

Salina: How about Southern things with a bee and you bonnet?

Salina: Oh, yeah, that struck me as pretty Southern.

Salina: It probably isn't, but it just sounds Southern.

Salina: Pork rinds also hits me as Southern.

Nikki: Do we need to describe pork rinds for anybody who doesn't know what they are?

Nikki: How would you describe them?

Nikki: They're like freeze dried pork skin.

Salina: I think at one point in time, I heard or read how they're made, and so I don't know.

Salina: I want to talk about that.

Nikki: Yeah, okay.

Nikki: Never mind.

Salina: They're delicious.

Nikki: It's a snack.

Salina: It's kind of like a chip.

Salina: It's like a snob.

Salina: And she was like, pork rinds?

Salina: And I was like, oh, they're delicious.

Nikki: I do like pork rinds.

Nikki: I think I went through a period in my life where I thought they were like, the world's worst thing in the world for your health.

Nikki: And I think they are if you eat them, like, every day, like anything.

Nikki: But, yeah, I think they're delicious.

Salina: How dare you?

Salina: They're part of a well balanced keto diet.

Nikki: I was going to say that, but yeah, I mean, they have understandably, a lot of fat in them, but they're delicious.

Nikki: Yeah, and I will only eat them, like, once a year anyway.

Salina: But they're good.

Salina: I like them.

Salina: The last thing I have in my Southern references is just like the culture of hunting.

Salina: And I understand that it's not strictly Southern, but it's definitely a part of Southern culture.

Nikki: It's very British, actually.

Nikki: Sure.

Nikki: The British love hunting.

Salina: Well, southern British.

Nikki: I understand what I'm saying.

Nikki: That's why I'm making that point.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: There's a connection there.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: References that we need to talk about.

Nikki: I got none.

Salina: Oh, well, that's easy.

Salina: Okay, well, here's the fur thing.

Salina: Are you ready for it?

Nikki: Yes.

Nikki: This is going to make me sad.

Salina: No, I'm not going into that.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: Honestly, I'm linking to an article.

Salina: I didn't want to take it down that much.

Salina: To your point that this is a thing that was, like a big deal a long time ago.

Salina: It feels like I'm not saying it's solved.

Salina: And there are still issues in this when it comes to fur, I'm sure.

Salina: I don't know what they are.

Salina: It's not like I did a full media scan or anything, but it's just not something that we hear about all the time.

Salina: But if you want to know what happens to animals, that is a very easy findable thing.

Salina: And we're a podcast about designing women.

Salina: We're just trying to have a Saturday.

Salina: I'm not saying it's not important.

Nikki: I made it to the Nutria Wikipedia page and I was like, I can't I know this is going to be sad.

Nikki: It's just going to make me sad.

Salina: Sure.

Salina: So I'm not really going down that path.

Salina: But for those who want to look at it, and I did, because I felt like it was something I need to know and it is very sad.

Salina: You can have all of it that you want in the show notes.

Salina: Okay, here's the thing.

Salina: Suzanne's last fur jacket was made of Nutria, and this is all kind of fur references that were made.

Salina: And so I just did a little mini deep dive on all of them.

Salina: A shallow dive.

Salina: The way they're caught in the wild as well as farmed is a point of contention in the show.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: And that's the thing that if you want to see more on that, we got it for you.

Salina: But I didn't know what they were.

Salina: Did you know what they were?

Salina: Okay, so I was in my head picturing like, a sugar glider.

Salina: Do you know how cute those are?

Nikki: And so I was like I was imagining a rat.

Salina: I'm tapping into that hypocrisy right now because then I looked did you look them up?

Salina: Okay, so I looked them up and I was like and I'm not saying, like, go kill all yeah, they're not cute.

Salina: I looked them up and I was like, oh, God.

Salina: So they're actually known as rodents of unusual size.

Salina: So basically, that creature in the swamp of Princess Bride.

Salina: Seriously, do you remember that?

Salina: Do you remember that scary thing with the red eyes?

Salina: Okay, but in this case, that is obviously done to a mythical proportion size, but let's be very clear.

Salina: Nutria top out at about 20 pounds.

Salina: That is a medium sized dog, but.

Nikki: It'S a rose bigger than Jackson, just so you know.

Salina: I know, and that's what I'm saying.

Nikki: I thought it was it looks like a groundhog to me.

Salina: Or a chupacabra.

Salina: I think it looks like one of those, too.

Salina: I hope I said that right.

Salina: You did.

Nikki: But that's like, in my world, kind of.

Salina: Is it a monster?

Salina: I think so.

Salina: I thought they were like in the rivers of the Amazon or something.

Salina: It's a rodent y'all.

Salina: It's a rodent.

Salina: Beavers groundhog.

Nikki: It also looks like a beaver.

Salina: They all look very similar, although the nutria babies are cute.

Salina: Anyways, they were brought here in the 18 hundreds as part of the fur trade.

Salina: I'm getting to a point, I swear, and I don't want to say it ironically, but I ran across a Wall Street Journal article that literally published this week about how they're wreaking havoc in American wetlands.

Salina: And apparently all these states are trying to get rid of them.

Salina: And I mean get rid of them.

Nikki: They're killing them like we do with deer controlling the population.

Salina: It's funny hearing this conversation in this episode, butted up against this thing where they're like, well, we found a way to kill them all.

Nikki: It's almost like context matters and that things change over time.

Nikki: Nothing is static.

Salina: I want to say, too, that Suzanne really knew what a neutral was because she mentions them being in a swamp and they are definitely swamp creatures.

Nikki: They look like swamp creatures.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: She knew what was going on.

Salina: Or Pam Norris did.

Salina: She's with it.

Salina: So another reference that gets made is Charlene says that fake furs are made from petroleum products and they're not biodegradable.

Salina: Just confirming that's true.

Salina: I didn't know.

Salina: I was like, also, I don't need a real fur or fake fur.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: It's not me.

Salina: It could take hundreds or thousands of years to break down.

Salina: That's a long time.

Nikki: That is a long time.

Salina: That's a long time.

Salina: All right, then.

Salina: I couldn't help but wonder much back to the top of the episode, is this something you're going to say?

Nikki: I was just processing what you said way earlier in the episode, which is robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Nikki: Basically, how you try to do make one good choice with a fake fur, and really you're just messing something else up.

Nikki: It's a no win situation.

Salina: It does feel like a no win situation, which is a little disheartening, I think.

Salina: And I think it gives people, like, environmentalism fatigue.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: There's a lot of fatigue.

Salina: We just get tired.

Nikki: I'm tired, man.

Nikki: I'm just tired.

Salina: Oh, tired.

Salina: I was going to come back to this point of like, but why was Pam Norris interested?

Salina: Why was LBT?

Salina: Whoever?

Salina: And so what I wound up finding was that less than two months before this premiered on Black Friday, 1989, animal activists led a coordinated nationwide protest around the US called Furless Friday.

Salina: This was maybe the third annual event.

Salina: Apparently, as I was, like, digging into the articles, people go out and they're like trying to hit the sales and stuff.

Salina: So that was a big day to buy fur.

Salina: This just feels so foreign now, you know what I'm saying?

Salina: Oh, it's the big fur buying day.

Salina: So, in fact, the headline of the Chicago Tribune article I found is the fur flies.

Salina: Now, there's more to it, but that's the name of the episode, so it's hard to like the actual headline is fur flies as 600 protest on Michigan Avenue.

Salina: And so it was hard to not see that and not think exactly about this episode.

Nikki: Right.

Salina: So at that time, 600 people marched on the Magnificent Mile in Chicago.

Salina: In New York.

Salina: Bob Barker like prices, right?

Salina: Bob Barker.

Salina: He led 2500 activists down Fifth Avenue.

Salina: Belinda Carlyle also got in on the action and she led a group of 150 in Beverly Hills.

Salina: And then there were also demonstrations in San Francisco, Miami, harrisburg, Pennsylvania, corpus Christi, Texas, durham, North Carolina, Syracuse, New York, New Orleans, Seattle and other cities.

Salina: So I thought, this is crazy.

Nikki: All the cities.

Salina: All the cities.

Nikki: Bob Barker and Belinda Carlyle is the duo I never knew I needed.

Salina: I wish they were together.

Salina: That would be wonderful.

Salina: So lots of celebrities around this time, too.

Salina: I'm talking separate from this event because this isn't the first one.

Salina: I guess this is like maybe the second or third one.

Salina: I feel like what I'm reading in the context of this is like it started off small and by this time, by 89, 90, there's been like a real groundswell.

Salina: So anyways, separate from this, just celebrities are getting involved in the anti fur movement around this time.

Salina: Princess Die.

Salina: Huge name to be involved.

Salina: Brooke Shields.

Salina: Candace Bergen.

Salina: Bergen.

Salina: I always mess up her name.

Salina: Murphy.

Nikki: I've always said Bergen.

Salina: Murphy Brown.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: Christy Brinkley.

Salina: Jaja Gabor.

Salina: And three out of the four Golden.

Nikki: Girls, jaja Gabor was anti fur.

Salina: It's interesting, isn't it?

Salina: It is interesting because you darling, it's like you picture better.

Salina: Picture her dripping in diamonds of glass.

Nikki: Something about her aura, her vibe.

Salina: Well, who's the sister?

Salina: Maybe the sister was the one in first ava.

Nikki: Thank you.

Salina: One of the cabo and then I didn't know you was such a cabo fan.

Salina: The Golden Girls, three of them, they made a commercial asking people to avoid wearing fur.

Salina: Well, Betty White and I forget what other two were involved.

Salina: I have the link.

Nikki: I need to know which one was not involved.

Nikki: That must be a very big statement to be like, no, not going to be involved in that one.

Salina: That's really interesting.

Salina: Oh, my gosh, you're going to kill me.

Salina: I'm sorry.

Salina: It's all but the mom.

Nikki: Oh, okay.

Salina: She's all still getting thank you.

Salina: Everybody else is.

Salina: We will also link to that so that Nikki will because she's amazing.

Salina: I just pulled the link.

Salina: I did something anyway so that people can see it.

Salina: It's a really short ad.

Salina: I think that's also where I ran into the thing about, like, don't just throw your furs in the trash because they go into a landfill.

Salina: At least give them to someone who is cold and needs to be warm or just like spur or just likes fur.

Salina: Like I said, I got a lot of different articles.

Salina: So if people want to dig in and they want to know what was going on with fur that time, it's just a really long, windy path.

Salina: That's what I'll say.

Salina: It was like 11:00 last night.

Salina: I was like, I can't anymore.

Salina: I look up, my eyes are all red.

Salina: I'm like the world.

Salina: It's a dangerous place.

Nikki: It was.

Nikki: They charted the path for us.

Nikki: Now we don't even talk about fur except the once a year article that some out of it celebrity still wearing fur.

Salina: One of the articles, I swear, like, I only got like a fourth of the way through it and there were still like 70 more pages.

Salina: I was like, I can't good.

Nikki: How much is you know what Dolly Parton says?

Nikki: She just make your point and move on.

Salina: That's right.

Salina: And speaking of making our points and moving on, I'm done with the references.

Salina: I hope that was helpful in terms of understanding what was going on with Anti fair.

Nikki: Well, now we know.

Nikki: So our next episode is season four, episode 17, oh, what a feeling.

Nikki: Oopsie, it's just getting dicey with the numbering.

Nikki: We'd love everyone to follow along with us and engage Instagram and Facebook at sweettv TikTok at sweettvpod.

Nikki: Our email address is and our website is

Nikki: You can still find us on YouTube, too.

Nikki: Like we've talked about recently, there are several ways to support the show.

Nikki: You can tell your family and friends about us, rate and or review the podcast wherever you listen.

Nikki: We also have some additional ways available from the website, from our Support US page on ways you can support us.

Nikki: And come back Thursday for extra sugar, where we're going to talk about working parents.

Nikki: We're going to get the working parents version of a working parents extra sugar.

Salina: Dun dun dun.

Nikki: So I think that's it, Salina.

Salina: Well, you know what that means.

Nikki: What does it mean, Salina?

Salina: It means we'll see you around the bend.

Salina: Bye.


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