Designing Women S4 E4 - We Need Some Kind of Vacation Counseling

No, no, no! Haven’t these women learned their lesson yet? They canNOT - we repeat, CANNOT! - go on a trip with the menfolk. Even a short weekender. It NEVER works out well. Unfortunately, they decide to head up to North Georgia and take us on the painfest with them.

Fortunately, we can distract ourselves discussing the various and sundry offensive ways they talk about the locals. Hey! We’re a podcast dedicated to debunking Southern stereotypes - we just call that “content”! (We’ll also do a “Nikki’s Nibbles” called “Wild Dinner”, in honor of the ladies’ dinners at the local bar.)

And come back later this week for “Extra Sugar”, where we’ll talk about the cultural moment underpinning this episode - the movie “Deliverance.”

Here are some references, if you need ‘em:

• LiveScience article on the safety of eating roadkill

• Modern Farmer article on the practice of eating roadkill

Come on, let’s get into it!

Or listen on Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Podcasts | Amazon Music.

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Transcript

Hey Nikki.

Hey Salina.

Remember that time that your co-host screwed up the first take?

I think we both did.

I, I started and I was like, where am I?

What's today?

It's really hard to make the transition to the weekend unless it's like some world where you just sleep through it and then wake up again on Monday, which sounds like a giant nightmare.

That actually, isn't that what happens on the weekend though?

Like we talked about that at one point how you basically get like 16 hours of not sleep time?

That's depressing, right?

Sorry, a little bit.

Sorry.

Say that again.

That's ok because I'll do like this and it'll make it all better and smile when you talk and it lifts everything up.

Is that all it takes?

Is it all up here that might be entering mania, mania, mania?

Well, so we haven't been together in a couple of weeks.

Nobody else realizes that until now.

But that's the case.

I like to spoil what goes on behind the scenes.

Um So I thought I would just ruin the illusion that we like live together in this closet, right?

Uh What you been up to, oh man, it's only been two weeks since we were together.

Like that feels like not enough time to have been up to anything.

So I feel I'm giving myself that grace when I say not too darn much, I really haven't been up to too much.

Um, I started watching that 90's show on Netflix.

Have you watched it?

Not yet.

I'm trying to prepare myself.

Maybe your, what you say next will help or hinder because I really love that seventies show.

And sometimes I get nervous about young new actors and I'm like, you know, or like ruining.

Uh I don't want to say a legacy because that feels strong.

But yeah, I think it's very cute.

I'm only through like the 6th episode.

I think that it is very um what's the word?

It feels like home?

Like it reminds you of the show.

Thank you, nostalgia.

It's very much that Red and Kitty play a really big role in this show, which I was not expecting.

Um And they are hilarious.

Kitty makes me laugh out loud every time she's on screen.

Um So what I've watched, I've really enjoyed it super light and silly.

Um So I've been watching that and then like at night before I go to bed, my daughter and I read, I think maybe I talked about this on a recent episode.

We read Little Women together, like my parents gave her this collection of classic books and we read Little Women and I felt like I finished it and I was like, I mean, it was fun.

I've never actually read it before and I've never seen any of the movies or anything.

I just know the story.

Um, so I read it and I was like, I mean, it was a fine book.

I don't understand why everybody makes such a big deal about it.

Then I read the back of the book and it was like an ab bridged version for kids.

And I was like, oh, ok, that makes a lot more sense.

Like there's, there's got to be some good stuff missing, like some really nice turns of phrase.

It just didn't even feel like elevated writing to me.

Um, so I checked that out from the library, the digital version and I've been reading that every night before I go to bed instead of watching TV.

And it is a very different piece of literature that people may know what they're talking about.

Turns out, turns out little women in a century of readers know what they're talking about.

But they don't always.

That's true.

I have like, and I, like, I don't like to disparage authors because that's not really my place, um, as not an author but like, definitely things that are considered classics or big Snorre Fest for me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I can't believe I made it all the way through school and never read this book.

It's astounding to me.

Yeah.

What did you say?

Oh.

Oh, it is not for me.

Not for me.

But it's so crazy.

Like English was my favorite class.

I took a P English.

Like, what was I reading?

I couldn't tell you, but I never read little women.

So I'm reading that now.

I've been reading Harry Potter with my daughter when I put her to bed at night.

We started reading the first one also fantastic book that I haven't read in more than a decade.

And it's been really fun revisiting that with her.

So that's really it, man.

I haven't been up to, I've had a saga with new Windows in my house.

That's been a thing.

Spoiler alert.

Don't get new windows.

It's not worth it.

Just like put a towel over it or something.

I don't know what to tell you.

Um So, yeah, and we had our, our friend's Christmas party last week.

We put off our Christmas party till after the holidays because we really didn't.

We all have most of us have little kids and we didn't all want to get sick right before Christmas and not see like our immediate families.

So we put it off.

We got all the people together last weekend and we were all standing around looking at each other like time is cruel.

How is it possible that these people that we used to hang out with at like 19 and 20 years old?

We're all standing here looking at our kids playing in a bouncy house right now.

Oh, ok.

It sound worse than that.

We're all looking at each other and we were like, time is cruel.

Oh, no, I'm like, dang, just like, where does it all go?

Where does the time go?

I don't know.

So, that's what I've been up to.

What about you?

Well, so is this a good segue into my last weekend?

Because I also was thinking about how time, time is a thief because Casey turned 40 last weekend.

Yeah, it's not that far off.

Plenty far off.

OK.

That's what I keep telling myself too and why I explained to him, you know, we're from two different generations.

This is hard for you to understand.

But back in your day and so I think like the biggest, like, it was like a really, it was like a birthday extravaganza.

I, like, it was just something all weekend long.

And so I was just glad to do it just really tired because, like, I feel like you're, I just felt like I was like, trying to, like, coordinate and do stuff all weekend and I just wound up being exhausted.

But like, also like, yeah, um, and, uh, like I started off just in a bad way.

I still have decorations up downstairs and those will stay up for a while because let me tell you something.

This took me four hours to put up.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, I was up until one o'clock in the morning, putting those up and like, and it was really just for something cute for him to see.

I didn't know it was going to be a disaster.

Like, why don't they, like, send directions or, like, um, you know, tie a piece of, like, hot pink twine around that plastic straw that you're supposed to use to, like, blow up the mylar balloons.

I mean, I also incidentally realized how much Casey usually helps me with these little tasks.

And he like, I like, you know, couldn't ask for that help or have, I haven't had, I had to hang a banner by myself in a really long time and that's quite a, you really need two people, you know, you just do.

Um So uh Saturday though, we really just, we did like dinner and drinks.

So I wanted to give a couple of recommendations.

Uh One is the anguished barber.

This is in midtown and it's a cocktail bar that shares a space with like a really nice barber shop.

And um, so like you can, I mean, we did not go there to get our hair cuts, but you can go and you could like have like a nice cocktail.

Um Like while you're getting your hair done, we've talked about this before on here.

So familiar to me.

I don't remember if it was on here, but I remember having the conversation of like, OK, that's an interesting concept but it's really cool.

Ok.

Nikki will have the same reaction.

So, don't listen to Nicky, listen to me.

And if you're in the Atlanta area it'll be one of the best cocktails you're gonna have.

So, um, uh, I mean, it's separated enough.

What do you worry about hair?

No, no, nothing like that.

It's more just like, um, I think we did talk about it because we talked about.

So you didn't know that they have like places where you could go do your laundry and also drink, let me tell you something because they, you can, you can do anything and drink these days.

We are living the dream.

I feel like I think that's been all time.

Like I like they, they, they used to not know that you shouldn't be pregnant and drink at the same time so you could do all of the things and drink and be pregnant.

You can, you can't, I mean, I, I probably wouldn't tip up like a whole whiskey bottle or anything.

Um uh But yeah, I mean, but the science shows us like not the best idea.

Um But uh so anyways it's a really cute bar.

They also have really cute mo not really cute, really delicious mock tails because I'm actually not a drinker.

And then um we went to a Lebanese restaurant called um it's either Zakia or Zakia.

We had some conversation about the table at the table about which one it was and neither of us really knew.

And the server never said so.

Anyways, it doesn't matter.

It's Z A K I A and it was absolutely delicious.

Um, I mean, just every single course, uh, whether it was like, uh, you couldn't believe I really love this, but it was like a beet salad at the beginning.

I know for most people they're like, thank you for a bowl of dirt.

No, it was delicious with like whipped feta and walnuts and like some really delicious sauces poured on top.

Not but like drizzled spinach cheese rolls and like we had lamb shank and this stuff called, I wanted to say this one in particular just because if you're not really a sweets person, it's more of like a, a salty dessert.

Uh So it's, it's Middle Eastern and it's made with spun pastry called Toffee and it's soaked in a sweet.

Ours wasn't soaked.

You could like the sauce was on the side, but like it's like a syrup that you can put on it if you want.

And then it's typically layered with cheese and that's how ours was.

And then some people do clotted cream pistachio or nuts anyways, it was really delicious if you ever see that on a menu.

Um And then we spent Sunday with Casey's family and his dad made the most delicious mouthwatering brisket And it was uh it was nice.

So that was pretty much it.

Happy Birthday.

Casey.

Happy Birthday.

Casey.

Welcome to 40.

No promises.

That's going to go.

Well, yeah.

Right.

Right.

So are we ready?

Ready?

There's no good transition.

I don't know something about brisket.

No, got nothing.

You had such a nice weekend.

And then in this episode, we're talking about a nightmare.

So I like that.

This episode is called, uh this is season four, episode four of Designing Women.

This episode is called Nightmare from Hee Haw Hulu says a canoeing trip in the remote Georgia woods becomes reminiscent of Deliverance.

When the Sugar Baker ladies and their men encounter three troublesome hillbillies Air date October 16th, 1989.

We're calling this one.

We need some kind of vacation counseling.

It's written by L BT and directed by David trainer.

I imagine there's a lot for us to break down on this episode.

So let's start with general reactions and stray observations.

What you got?

Well, I think we, we've already kind of alluded to this episode where we were going to talk about portrayals.

And I do want to have a conversation about that.

But before we do, I, I just sort of had this one like last minute thought that I wanted to share, which is we know that she's, we're pretty sure by this time she's working with Burt Reynolds on evening shade even if it's like preproduction stuff.

Uh And I just, I couldn't help but think is, is like, did she working with him and him being a main star in the movie Deliverance.

Did that like get the wheels turning for this episode?

These are unanswerable questions, but that was one thing and then I'll pose this was this a better episode if he had a cameo as one of the sons in the bar.

If this is the Deliverance episode.

Oh, uh no, no, you just can't make this any sweeter than I think so.

I think we've really talked out.

I think we've really talked out.

I think that's an interesting question.

My first general reaction was that this actually goes back to a point I made um in one of the earlier episodes, we covered this season, which is that device of her taking movies and sort of translating them into a plot line for designing women.

So I've never actually seen Deliverance.

Um I've, I've read about it.

It does not sound like a movie.

I'm super interested in watching.

It sounds like maybe it's a little too hard core for someone as soft as me for movies.

Um And so I'm probably not going to watch it.

I know you're going to talk about it in this week's extra sugar.

So maybe you can tell me if to your knowledge, it aligns with kind of some of the themes from this episode.

Um But that was my general reaction was I was like, this is this is her pulling on Deliverance for designing women.

Like what if the designing women came as close to Deliverance as they could.

Ok.

All right.

Yeah, I'll go with that.

Um So yeah, we'll definitely get all into the background on the movie and different aspects and how they may or may not correlate.

So that'll all be in extra sugar.

But coming back to this episode specifically, uh I wanted to check in on some things about like, how do we feel about the shows, one portrayal of the town and the characters we meet and two then like our main cast of characters and their reaction to the town.

So I wrote down some examples of what was said or shown if we need to revisit that or do you feel like it's fresh enough in your mind?

Uh Give some examples?

OK, good.

So um it's, it's like a, like a lot of sn comments.

Um So I don't know if these are going to come across without context, but I think it's Mary Jo who says we're the only ones in here who know who Leonard Bernstein is.

Um There's a comment like, uh how do you feel about the culture so far after they um get to the bar slash restaurant?

I keep always want to call it like a pub uh referring to the guys in the bar as being part of the Charles Darwin Hall of Fame.

Mary Jo is drunkenly doing her best impression of a country boy, like really loud because you know she's had like a teaspoon of alcohol and so she's wasted.

Um, even, like, down to the names, like one person's name is NUB.

I'm not saying it couldn't happen.

You know, we're from the south.

I've probably known a NUB.

It's a choice.

Um, the character of Rupert who was played as if he'd been dropped on his head.

Uh, one of the sons had not gotten past the third grade and then they kind of made a joke about him not being able to pronounce the word female.

It took a couple of runs at that for me to understand the joke there.

Um And then uh this kind of like this trope of like uh uh rednecks in a bar, always ready to fight, right?

So again, not saying some of this isn't based in reality, but those are some of the portrayals we got on the show.

So how did, how did that land with you?

So I actually, the first time I watched this, like in pre watch, I think that I had convinced myself that L BT wanted to push back on stereotypes of southern people.

So at one point they talk about one of the sons being a gynecologist.

I really thought the first time I watched it, I thought he really was.

And I was like, heck yeah, like a rural doctor and a woman doctor.

Like that was awesome.

And then I watched it again and I was like, oh, dang.

Like I thought there was a little bit more balance.

That's my favorite reading that you've had in four seasons.

I thought there was more balance happening and I really felt good about it the first time and then the more I watched it, I watched it twice, I think two more times preparing for this episode.

Um And I was like, oh man, dang it.

Like, why do we have to do this?

So I expect it from Suzanne and I expect it from Julia to be really snotty and think of Atlanta as some like urban mecca that puts them in a position where they can make fun of people who live in rural areas.

Uh I really wanted like, I expect that from them.

I expected more from Mary Jo and I expected Charlene to be a little stronger.

One of my strays actually though is that there was a cut line in the scene where the women were back at the cabin gathering, um All of their things, someone in the group says they really shouldn't generalize everyone from rural areas.

So there was a cut line that maybe would have salvaged something.

I'm thinking maybe it was her and I could have salvaged it.

Right.

Yeah.

So I feel like it's a little unfair to L BT for me to be like, man, she sure hates rural people because maybe there was some of that balance in there I was expecting and just never got So this episode super bummed me out because I felt like it was really unfair.

I'm glad you shared that.

I mean, I don't think that one line is enough counterbalance, but at least that's something, it's a semblance and it, it would potentially track with characters, like I'm saying, I expect more from Mary Jo and Charlene from their character.

So maybe it would have helped a little, I guess it could have been one of the men maybe who said it.

I don't know they were in the hospital.

Oh, that's right.

That's right.

You're right.

So it couldn't have been them, I guess it was Charlene.

God bless her.

Yeah, I, you know, I just, I didn't love it.

It struck me as judgmental and over the top, like, and I, and, and so again, I'm going to go back like, uh, well, I have sometimes described myself about as humor full as a dish rag but I do see the humor in it.

I, I, I promise I do when we get down to things that we liked, I'll go more into that.

But, um, mean spirited is the word that comes to mind for me.

So when we cross over into that instead of like these like, oh, yeah, I've definitely written into this guy before or something like that to just like, get feeling like beating up on someone.

Uh, I also think some of it might have to do with this idea that like, we don't have a ton of Appalachia representation in the media um in, in entertainment.

And so maybe that's part of why it feels so lopsided or something.

I mean, the most recent I can even think of is the one that was on the opioid epidemic.

Um and, and uh they have Michael Keaton in it.

And so it's just like, and that was, I mean, that's just a terrible, a terrible, a terribly sad, like, um updated picture of, of some of the things that are taking place there.

But again, it's this thing where it's just this lens of like horribleness instead of like capturing some of the more kind or like, um like these really nice qualities about the area.

These are places where we've spent time because we, we live here, you know, um and they were snotty before to get to your point about, um about mean spirited.

They were snotty before they even had an opportunity to understand the people they were up against uh daddy boy or whatever his name was and his kids, like they were snotty about it before that there were snide jokes about, like you said, um let's go soak up some culture.

Is this the culture you wanted, like they were really snotty about the whole thing before they even had a reason to be like, God, these guys are so annoying and uh actually you brought up something in our last episode that sort of fits into this rural versus city issue.

And I think he nailed it on the head with the word classist.

So that's what it sort of struck me as.

And then going back again to this point that it's like it feels in opposition to what I think, what I think and what I thought the show was trying to do that show that the South was a progressive place.

Um, I mean, more rural places, uh lean, more traditional and that's fine.

But I'm wondering if we had taken it and we had done one of maybe these two things with the plot, would this have helped?

One is like, this could have been an opportunity to use L BT S like sharp wit and humor to dispel some of those stereotypes.

Um like Make one of the characters a real gynecologist and would have been so awesome, not a gynecologist for fun.

And I just need to say for the record, you can't be a gynecologist for fun.

I mean, That is creepy at level 17 out of one of 10.

Um but uh you know, so, but to dispel some of those stereotypes about people in the country or mountains, um and instead the script leaned into them.

So I think, I think, but I think that's one way that we could have gone about it.

The other way is that they could have even played within the bounds of these stereotypes.

Uh but then showed that there's something more than meets the eye.

You know, maybe there was something redeeming that could have happened after that first encounter.

But it was just like more of the, it was like a second helping and it got scarier because they showed up at the cabin with like how strange, like, maybe if they had had that interaction in the bar, the women were so freaked out by these men and then there was like their car broke down on their way back to the cabin and the men actually helped them get back to the cabin and helped make sure they had food and firewood or something nice.

I mean, I, I gave him a gynecological exam.

I I think I can give you your pap smear for the year.

Sounds delightful.

So, what other general reactions do you have?

I think that's it for me on generals.

I think the rest of mine are stray, I think.

Ok, I did, did we want, you mentioned something?

We didn't talk a lot about this one offline, but you did mention something about like the traditional feminine and masculine cues that were going on in this episode in roles.

Is that, is there anything there that um no, it, you know, it just, it struck me as this, there was this discussion about like approving dances and like can I dance with her?

And it just felt very of a different time.

The, well, the men, it didn't uh it sort of felt like the guys in the bar kept trying to bypass the men and the men kept trying to step in and, and, and they were speaking for them, but the women were deferring.

Yes, because it made it easier on them uh to deal with these men, which so that it was just an observation I made, what I was proposing is that we would dig into it for an extra sugar or something if it had teeth, it was just this kind of random observation I had that I was just like, what is, what is going on here?

That would never happen.

And so that's what I was gonna ask, did you feel like that there's anything realistic about the way that played out with them?

Deferring?

Maybe in the maybe in the old days, I can't imagine a world in which a man would come up to me when I was out to dinner with my husband and one they asked me to dance like there's just not very many opportunities to dance anymore.

So that is not terribly believable, but just like would come up when I'm clearly there with my husband and try to like get me in some situation that just, that wasn't super realistic today.

It may have been back then and it may have been something that happened a lot.

It's just not current.

It did.

I didn't identify with that at all.

So I'm going to tell you.

I think it was kind of realistic.

Maybe not in that specific instance.

But I actually thought back to something that you and I have talked about where we do this thing where we pretend like we need to talk to our husband.

So people will leave us alone.

So.

Oh, like cable.

Yeah.

Anybody bothering you in the grocery store when they ask you what your cell phone plan is when they ask you, have you reevaluated your cable?

I don't even know anything about.

I totally, we did that at Target.

My daughter and I recently with cell phones.

I was like, I don't even know what service I have.

I'm sorry.

That's, that's in my husband's shop.

I don't know.

Right.

So I, so I do think there is some deferring and right there in the room feels different.

Right.

So I don't, I totally agree with that.

The whole thing is weird and maybe the real problem is, is that we have a lot of opportunities to dance.

That's the real issue is what we're learning here.

No, it is.

Absolutely what we're learning here.

Um And then the only other thing I'll say on that point that struck me in that, well, two things.

One is this idea that the, the women had to feel like, felt like they couldn't say anything like that sort of, that sort of stuck with me like, um, that they felt like maybe they were going to cause a situation or something.

And then the, and then they felt like they had to dance then with these guys, like there's something that's so unfair about that happening.

They should have just been able to say they were no, like the word, no.

And that be it.

Ok?

And acceptable in any situation.

And then the second thing is like, also just the audacity of men, those men for sure.

No, no, I think a lot of men actually, I'm, I'm, I feel willing to say that from the things I've had shouted to me in the streets and the people I've seen approach me and the things I've seen people doing in their cars and showing me when I did not need to see it and they all had penises.

So yeah, the audacity of men.

Yeah, I saw this tiktok this morning where this guy was saying um conventionally attractive women are so mean and um someone uh it's not called dueting it, but like they, they stitched it and they were like, no, like just because they don't want to be polite and kind to you who know, we have no idea what you said to that woman.

She has the right to feel what she feels and she doesn't exist to make you feel better about your or to be, she doesn't owe you her politeness.

She doesn't owe you niceness.

Um So it's funny that you're bringing that up today.

I literally just saw that video this morning and it was, it was kind of astounding.

I'm part of your algorithm.

I think you are my algorithm.

Oh, why don't you talk us through some of your strays?

Well, I have some fashion notes.

Did you notice how different Julia's hair looked in?

This episode is very feathered and just looked very, maybe this is her like weekend in the mountains.

Look, it feels like we're definitely playing.

What is it?

The Fisher Vest that makes you think that it feels like we're definitely playing around with hair dos this season.

And it was because we talked about Mary Jo's hair in like episode one that I felt like I needed to do equal opportunity.

Also, Mary Jo and the suspenders and flat brimmed hat.

She's looking very hipster here.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That was, as soon as she showed up on screen, I was like, she looks like a hipster.

She's wearing like high waisted jeans, suspenders and a flat brimmed hat just seemed like something we've seen these days.

Yeah, that's a good call.

I only had one.

Ok.

Um, that I want to share and, um, oh, I lied.

I'm sorry too, but I'll be quick about it.

Did you notice who one of the sons is?

No, to me?

Oh, how did I not notice that?

It took me a couple of watches to see it.

Which is crazy.

Was he the guy?

Because he's no.

Um, because he's like, the most imposing like he's very, he's like a, he's a big burly dude.

Um But they put him in a pair of cover cover cover.

I'm a fan of and a pair of coveralls and I just got confused.

So it's like hot girl in glasses and pony to, oh, how does she walk around like that all day?

Look at that's staying on her overalls.

Um But it's like, it's interesting because they also put Anthony and him in a scene together and they do at least directly dialogue at least one time in that scene.

And how odd that I miss that entirely or that they did that.

It's like a, I don't know, I mean, I think it's fun because you kind of get to catch it.

I love a little Easter egg or whatever.

But, uh that was weird.

And then we do get a couple of callbacks the last season, specifically season three episode 20 stand and fight Mary Joe cries in the bar 911.

And then there's a little conversation about like how they should have been able to do more.

They took that self-defense class.

So.

Right.

That was actually I had two Mary Jo observations for, uh my last stray.

That was one of them that it was a really funny call back to the mugging training.

Uh The second one was that I was just really glad they acknowledged that she was drinking beer at the table because the second she started talking, I thought.

Oh, no.

Oh, no.

It's happening.

It's all happening again.

She's on the sauce and Mary Jo just can't handle it.

So I love every time they bring that up.

Um, but because we're in the bar right now, I feel like this is a good time for Nicky's nibbles.

Is that ok?

Oh, you know it is.

I'm starving.

Nicky nibbles.

Come on, y'all, let's talk.

Files.

Nicky nibbles.

Come on, y'all.

Let's eat.

All right.

So I have to talk about the girl's dinner.

Uh We had Squirrel for Charlene Frog for Mary Jo and Rabbit for Julia.

That's all that I needed to go into a Nicky's nibbles about um, what I'm gonna call wild dinners.

Love it.

Uh I want to talk about the practice of process of eating wild meat specifically in the US.

Um And I'm specifying that because it does happen in other countries and as I started spiraling, I was like, oh, this could be a really long segment, so I'm limiting it to the US.

Um But before we start, I want to acknowledge this is again a judgment free zone like our segment on dirt eating in season three episode, four people do this.

This is a regular part of their life.

I'm just sharing the information so don't judge them, let them live their lives, but I'm also not intending to be graphic in this segment because I know that is squirrely for people squarely.

That was, I didn't mean to do that because I know that can be a little uncomfortable for people.

So I'm going to carefully talk about anything that could feel graphic.

But if this is gross to you, if you can't handle this, like just fast forward, but don't judge these people what they eat.

Um So in this segment, I'm going to hone in on roadkill because that tends to be a hyper specific Southern reference either fairly or unfairly.

So for anyone not familiar roadkill refers to wild animals killed along a road, um, that are then prepared and eaten.

Uh It's a pretty long standing joke that this is done in rural areas, primarily Southern.

Uh, in fact, one of Jeff Foxworthy famous, you might be a redneck jokes is you might be a redneck if your kids take roadkill for show and tell.

Um, so it's far from a practice exclusive to the rural south though.

In fact, I found a live science article saying that collecting roadkill for eating is legal in more than 20 states, including Vermont, Washington, Oregon and Pennsylvania, California is even a state in which it's legal.

And like recently in 2019, lawmakers approved roadkill collection in three areas of the state which are considered quote high wildlife collision areas.

And a cursory glance tells me that it's also, like I said earlier, a standard practice in other countries too.

I would have never even fathomed that it could be illegal.

Like, how would you monitor for that?

Yeah.

So that, that's an interesting question.

Like the practicality of legality.

Um, but I have another, I think I'm going to mention it here in a little while.

Another Ruley thing around it.

That's kind of interesting.

Um, so some people have historically eaten roadkill for simple survival purposes.

So, like if you're the kind to eat deer and you've got a, like bullet free £70 deer sitting in the road a mile from your house.

Like why would you pay 12 99 or 24 99 whatever the going rate is a pound for, um, free range meat when you have venison sitting right out there.

Um, it's also an interesting workaround for vegetarians.

I thought this was fascinating.

So if people are against meat eating for like ethical reasons because the animals are raised and slaughtered specifically to be food, if a an animal out in the wild is killed in this sort of natural way and is otherwise going to go to waste, like their intention was not to raise them and kill them for food.

Some vegetarians are like, that's ok by me and they will eat meat in that instance.

Ok.

Um And then there's also a financial side to all of this.

I found an article on modern farmer that said that not eating roadkill is super wasteful.

They cited a state farm insurance estimate that some 1.2 million deer were hit by, by cars in 2012.

Assuming one third of that meat could be salvaged, that would be £20 million of free range venison sitting on the side of the road.

Wow.

Ok.

Um, that same article shared pretty compelling evidence.

Like there's no way to know for sure, like where people started eating roadkill or when.

But they shared evidence that formal government sanctioned roadkill collection began in Wisconsin.

Um, and that it's largely been considered a rural practice for practical reasons.

Um, those people living in rural areas are more accustomed to butchering and preparing meats.

Um, and the animals themselves are likely in better shape because they're not getting run over multiple times because there just aren't that many cars coming down these roads.

So can I share with you my practical concern?

It's like, unless you're driving like a huge pickup truck or something or like an S U V something with a lot of body build.

Um, you know, I, they like a lot of time, you know, like it can wrangle a car.

So I'm just trying to think this like of this thing where I like, I know some of these are smaller animals, but like, practically I hit a deer like my car is messed up.

I have to, first of all, I'm also traumatized because I had a, a car, a deer.

So I'm literally sitting in my car crying and then I'm trying to figure out the insurance stuff and then somewhere in the middle, I'm also like trying to think about picking an animal up and taking it home with me.

That just feels like one step too far emotionally.

I get that.

Um, so that I just as you know, or like how, that's what I'm saying, like even if you can separate all of that and you're not like a weenie like me, um you can do all of that.

Like, it does feel like your car becomes the number one concern.

If you have hit something that's big.

I, I agree with you.

Uh, but I will say maybe the concern and consideration in a rural area for instance.

So again, the argument I was making is that it, it has been considered a rural practice because, um, for all those other reasons.

So if it does happen primarily in rural areas, is it possible you're not as concerned about getting your car fixed immediately?

Is it possible you're not concerned about a dent on the side of your truck if you're like, if it's your farming truck?

I don't know.

Um, the other thing I would say is I wonder, and I don't, this is not covered anywhere in this segment.

I wonder how often it is not the person involved in the hit who is collecting the road after, like, you live off the side of a highway and you're used to people just, like, kind of running through town, hitting your deer and going off and you just grab them off the side of the road.

You're probably in a better emotional state.

You think that this will, you, you think this might upset someone's tummy listening to this.

I'm a little worried.

It might, I'm worried it might upset my tummy a little bit reading it.

Um, uh, I was in the last thing I was gonna say is a safety first moment.

Like I just feel I can't, I can't walk away from a segment on roadkill, selling this practice to people and not tell them how to do it safely.

So if you do decide, you know, Salina, you're driving down this road right out here and you see a deer on the side of the road and you decide to collect it.

First and foremost, you do need to know the law in your state.

So, like we were just talking about, um, that modern farmer article noted that in some states, roadkill is supposed to be reported to the state before you collect it.

So you have to report it to the state.

I know, right.

Um, and then in Alaska, roadkill is considered the property of the state and the state has the right to come in and collect it and then use that to feed families in need.

So you are not allowed to collect it for yourself because they're using it for the better.

Good.

Oh, well, that's, that's a nice practice.

It's, it's really nice.

It's community, right.

Um, so there are rules to know them and that's kind of how I was thinking too is like this idea of like, don't like not wasting.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, and then assuming you live in a state where it's ok to legally gather the roadkill.

Um, there were some tips given, I feel like it was the modern farmer article.

I'm gonna link to all this in the show notes.

One of the articles I read said to inspect this is where I'm trying to talk carefully, inspect your gathering, make sure that it doesn't appear outwardly sick of any kind.

There's no foaming at the mouth, no weird smells.

You want to think about the temperature of the air, like if it's a really hot day and you're in the south and that thing's been sitting there for a while, that's not good practice.

Just move along.

That's not going to be good for you.

And then of course, if it's sitting like in a puddle or covered in dirt or something, there, there are germs associated with that, that no amount of cleaning and cooking is really going to help you with.

So just move along.

OK.

So that's it.

Happy nipples, everybody.

OK?

And our most delicious segment of Nicky's Nibbles.

Um I had no idea that's where that was going.

What did you think I was gonna do?

I, I don't, I don't know, like the history of squirrels or something.

I don't, I don't know, I, I, I, I'm not sure why I didn't, I, I don't know all those things like to keep you hunted, you know, and then retrieved and sold at the bar.

Um, although I can, I just tell you my actual, like, like, wait a minute on that part of the episode was why you don't think that this place would just be serving chicken wings and hamburgers.

That just felt that was one of my over the top.

Like, really, you just had to double down on the fact that you think this is a crazy wild place.

And then these women who are sitting there making fun of these people and their livelihood are eating those foods and enjoying it.

That was the other thing that annoyed me.

Like you can't stand here and make fun of them and also enjoy these things that you make fun of them for their culture in quotes.

Just annoyed me like getting all worked up.

Speaking of either things that we don't like or we do like, let's talk about things that we do.

Like Nikki, what did you like about this episode?

Um I like when we leave sugar bakers, I like going on the I like always our vacation feedback.

I was gonna say I like getting out of sugar bakers.

I don't always love when they go on vacation.

Every vacation I think they've ever explored in this show has been a cluster for me and I have not enjoyed it.

Ok.

That's good.

That's good.

Um, there were also a couple of clever lines, I'm realizing in this moment I probably should have written one or two of them down to give you an example of how well thought out my notes were.

Um, but there were a couple of times I laughed, there was some cute stuff that happened.

Hard stop.

It's a sitcom and I laughed at this one.

If that's not, if that's not Golden Hills.

What else?

Um, so, well, maybe, well, I don't know.

I have one.

This is actually a, a counter to your very positive read of our gynecologist.

Doctor Nub.

Yeah.

Doctor Nub.

Don't, I don't know if I should go to doctor.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I probably not as a surgeon.

It's like, well, it's kind of like when I, like, I wouldn't want to go to Doctor Rusty or really anyone that refers to themselves with a first name and doctor I'm like, just, just go all the way.

Let's go with your last name.

We don't have to be that casual.

I don't want it to be casual.

This is health.

It's serious.

Very serious.

That should be formal.

Yeah, I don't want to call you Doctor Bob, you know.

Um, so I thought there were some really good lines in this one.

I actually nearly did a spit take at daddy Jones saying that no was a gynecologist and had delivered family babies.

I feel so stupid.

And I also want to say that he was also using this as a reason for him to be OK to dance with Charlene who Bill had tried to give the excuse of she's in labor right now.

So the whole set up was like, it was, it was definitely, um, a humorous one.

But anyways Suzanne has always had some good line.

Uh one liners when Charlene's baby was kicking on the river, this is being talked about in the aftermath of their canoeing trip.

Um And she, they come back and she says, well, of course, she was kick, the baby was kicking.

It's a little hick Suzanne was funny in this episode for sure.

She says the guy in the bar restaurant was looking at her like he wanted to lick the back of her neck.

That is very, it's very, um it's a good indicator of like, oh, ok, like exactly what's going on.

It's not the back of the neck.

Oh, no.

Um And the thing I liked about this one was Anthony to the rescue.

So he busts in, he pretends he, he's an FBI agent.

So we also get to see him do some acting like some meta in acting, acting and I like his friends are the one, him and his friends of his unfortunate incarceration.

Uh take care of the guys from the bar that really, let's be Frank.

They stomp J D Reese and Bill's butts.

But if she had brought in T Tommy Reid to be one of his friends and use like a body to, for the other, I would have to see, I never would have noticed they would have gotten it right by me.

Burt Reynolds could have been one of the guys.

That's true.

That's true.

Like in um 21 Jump Street, the, the newer version of the movie when it turns out Johnny Depp is one of the guys who's been in disguise the whole time.

That's right.

He's been waiting.

That would have been 1983.

That would have been good.

Yeah.

Uh I also just really like the names of his friends.

Um Mr E Edward, Hell Gibbs and Mr Thomas Spit Head Graves.

I just want to say like I would take on one of those names maybe at some point we should give ourselves unfortunate incarceration names, I think.

Well, I would like these names.

I accidentally called you the enforcer one time in some other, some other capacity.

And now all I can think of is Salina the enforcer.

I mean, I like it.

I obviously like it works for you.

What didn't you like about this episode, Nikki?

Um We talked about it a lot at the top.

It's very anti rural which just, I think it just disappointed me for the show.

It surprised me a little bit and not in a good way and like, just a disappointing way.

It's hard to, it was hard to watch this episode because I felt very much like, oh, I thought we were doing something different.

Like I thought we were push him back that one cut line.

I mean, I think there may have been some balance that ended up on the cutting room floor.

Or maybe I'm not saying this was like all in L BT S head.

Like, maybe there was more discussion with producers and the network and stuff, but it was just sort of a bummer.

Yeah.

Just a bummer.

Yeah.

No, no doubt.

I think that's my only dislike as well.

Um, We could have made some of them a little bit more three dimensional and, and, but the only thing I'll say encounter to my own counter is it's 22 minutes.

It's a tough job.

It's a lot of episodes.

There's 1,462 episodes this season.

I mean, I realize it's like doing a lot under a big time constraint.

But yeah.

Uh, watching it right now.

It is disappointing a little bit.

It would be crazy to watch a show about the south and set in the south.

Have these women live in Atlanta which is a big city in the southeast and not have them interact with rural areas that would be wild.

So I'm not arguing.

They never should do that.

I do wonder if this would have been a better high jinx episode.

So, like the one where they went camping or whatever, um, they went on, like, the lady's camping trip with Bernice, she treated them to the weekend in the wild.

Um, like something like that.

Um, dealing with the realities that rural people face.

Like I could have handled a couple of roadkill jokes.

I could have handled, uh, like forcing them to come to reality with needing to eat a squirrel or something.

I don't know, that might have been too duplicative of the camping episode, but something like that where they just experience rural without making fun of it.

I could have done with that.

I also will counter that in 1989, Atlanta was not a big city.

So I think it's always been a big city for the southeast because it's the, the southeast.

So let me get to my larger point because when you talk about how other cities viewed Atlanta years ago and we're just, now, I think at a point where a lot of that has shifted, they did not see it as a bit.

So I'm, what I'm trying to say is there's always someone punching down on the next group.

So let's stop it somewhere.

That's what I'm trying to say.

So, like New York, San Francisco L A, they didn't see Atlanta.

It was just, it might as well have just been an extension of Appalachia.

That's what I'm trying to say.

So let's, let's stop it somewhere, which is just so weird to me because then why would L BT have played into that when she's from even more rural than Atlanta?

Doesn't make sense to me.

Just doesn't, it doesn't add up, it doesn't add up.

How, uh, would you feel about rating this thing?

It's just a really awkward way into that, feel like it's a thing we gotta do.

So let's do it.

Tell me, what did you give this?

Uh So my rating scale was Wild Bands of toothless banjo players and I'm going to give it two out of five vacation episode and it was problematic.

So two out of five.

Ok.

What about you?

I really, I think you're going to be very surprised by my rating.

So first of all, my rating scale is vacations from health.

Um I gave up four out of five.

So um I don't, I don't like all the interesting types, but on Rewatch, I think there was a lot of dialogue I didn't catch on the first time through that I do think was really well written and I think it was funny.

Um And uh I, I also bumped it up some because I like the Anthony save the Day.

I'm always probably going to give at least one whole point for that just Anthony um coming in and just cleaning up everybody else's mess.

Um And yeah, so I rated it a little higher.

I'm a little surprised by my own rating, but I'm not changing it.

Um, and then thinking about all three vacation episodes.

So now we've had the ski trip where they kind of got stuck inside and there was the whole women, men thing.

Then we have Florida and then we have this one.

If you had to, uh, rank them, how would you rank them?

Florida?

This one ski trip, in terms of my, uh, preference.

If I had to watch another one, I'd watch the Florida one again.

Then, um, this one than the ski trip, the ski trip was my least favorite because I think it showed us all the worst things to know about the men.

Yeah, same.

So mine went, so this does play into my rating.

The other reason that I scored this a little higher in terms of vacation episodes.

I actually thought I had stakes.

I mean, the guys wind up in the hospital, um, which is probably where they need to be.

There's like there's things that actually feel like we're not making a thing out of nothing necessarily.

And so for that reason, I also scored it a little bit higher and for me it goes this one, Florida and the ski trip.

But altogether I think I like either they need, like, we need like a redo on vacations or just maybe no more vacations.

No more vacations.

We'll see how that plays out.

We did get that one.

Cruise episode, which I'm not counting as a vacation because they were there for work.

But that episode is pretty glorious and there were no men.

Yeah, I think we just don't like to see and this could be some, this could be something to dissect.

Uh, going back to that question.

You asked me earlier on the dynamics of the men and the women and the dance situation.

I think when we see our women and I'm, I'm calling them our women because because they, we our now um when we see them who we can see as strong, confident um Business women who can run their own business, who can run their own lives.

When we see the role that men played in that in an 80s context, I wonder if there's something, if there's inherently something frictional about that for me, given that my generation is um as our, our bad reviewer reminded us recently a little bit further than that.

Um I wonder if there's something I'm feeling there that every single time I see these interactions, I'm going to have a reaction to that.

I, I mean, it's possible, right?

Like in every single one of the vacation episodes, that's something that we've honed in on and talked about those um what felt like dusty gender dynamics um and stepping into like the least likely or likable parts about everyone's personality.

Um and in an attempt to be funny, but it turns into like something that's more like, um, for the therapist or something.

So, yeah, I think that's fair.

Uh, just jumping back into our, um, Uh, things, 80s, things.

Did you have any?

I feel like I should have had something here.

Yeah, I only have one thing.

Ok.

Bill says we have to get his card as in his business card.

I realize people have Cards.

My appliance repairman leaves me like 10 every time he comes to my house.

Yeah, it definitely still happens.

It just feels like much like my mom used to have a book for business card.

So it does feel like of another era um Southern things.

I mean, this whole episode, right?

So I could call out specific things.

I didn't because I'm probably like this whole episode just All of it.

OK.

Well, that was a much better way to do it.

I've got some things that I want to share one shots fired.

Ok.

So you look so good in love by George Strait is playing when they come through the door of the local pub and I just have to say that that's an all time high for me.

I love that song so much.

I was actually surprised it was George Strait not a cover um because I figured that would be kind of hard to get.

Um but it wasn't.

So also I just love George Strait, Arthur Murray School of Dance.

There actually is one.

Um They mentioned that they went to the School of Dance in Decatur.

That's why they wanted to dance with the women because they had learned how I just want to say there really are Arthur Murray dance centers to this day and they're basically franchise studios providing dance lessons for beginners.

Um If you are in the Atlanta area and you're interested, there is not one in Decatur anymore, but I can confirm that there's one in Alpharetta and Kennesaw Art Arthur Murray was an American ballroom dancer in case you don't know, he's also a business person.

And this is interesting, Murray had ties here in Atlanta.

So I wanted to share some of those.

He studied business admin at Georgia Tech and I mean, like Arthur Murray is, this is back in like 1919, but he taught ballroom dancing at the Georgian Terrace Hotel, Nicky.

You stayed there in the last year, haven't you?

It looks like from the time that he taught dance there.

Ah, and then I'm sorry, The floors in our room, the floors, the wood floors were like buckling up and it looked like they hadn't redone it since 1919.

OK.

Yeah, it took me a second there.

I was like, how long ago were you there?

Um, I'm like, we're not that old Mickey in 1920.

He also organized the world's first radio dance.

It's a big deal back in the twenties.

Um, uh, but where songs on the Georgia Tech campus were played and broadcast to 100 and 50 dancers on top of the Capitol City Club in downtown Atlanta.

And I just thought that was interesting.

I wasn't expecting there to be anything tied to like our local area.

They were super random.

So, yeah.

And I wonder if it's not random because this actually does feel like something L BT knows.

Did you read that?

There were, um, by the time he and his wife retired in 1964, there were 3500 Arthur Murray dance studios around the world today.

There are about 200.

Yeah, I did read that there were like a ton of them.

That is so fascinating to me.

I think it speaks to the time shift and how, like there's a ball dancing studio over here in Lawrenceville.

Um And it's so crazy to me every time I see it because ballroom dancing doesn't even occur to me like, it's not even again dancing like other than being in a club and dancing or dance, you know, whatever dancing in your own home, ballroom dancing is just of a totally different time.

It's so beautiful.

I love it.

My thing is, I mean, I'm not, I don't think I built for anything but like, I, I would be too embarrassed to go and have to put my lack of skills on display, especially since I feel like I have like probably four left feet instead of two, whatever gets you to a worse spot.

That's probably where I am.

Um, but so a couple of other Southern things, Daddy Jones says we're liable to go plum crazy.

That's pretty southern Reece references.

Um, Hill people, which is a Southern terminology.

Um, Daddy Jones says they're gonna have a big old cookout.

And I just want to say, I see this debate come up sometimes about the difference between a cookout, barbecue, et cetera.

And, um, I thought maybe we, I would just quickly differentiate.

Do you know about this argument at all?

Ok, Vicky has this beautiful look of disinterest on my face.

So according to the root, um a barbecue, the basics, you have to at least have like charcoal.

I bet you Kyle would feel seriously about them.

You should ask him.

Um The basics would include at least charcoal or wood and a low and slow cooking process.

And so it's more than hot dogs and hamburgers that you just throw on a grill.

It takes time, it takes planning and then from there, the, the meat could, they said would, but I would say could be dictated by the geography.

So in Texas, you would more than likely have brisket, maybe somewhere in the Carolinas, you'd have a whole hog.

Um I would argue any of that's on the table.

But um a cookout on the other hand, does not require the same advanced planning and you really can't just throw dogs and burgers on the grill and call it a cook out.

And a lot of people in the south feel really seriously about that.

So I thought, I thought it was regional in the sense that they were more likely to say barbecue up north and cook out in the south.

I refer to almost everything that is, it's less about the type of meat and the way that it's cooked and more about the environment around it.

So, like a cook out to me says, like we're having a party and we're eating outside.

Um Now, barbecue versus grill means something very different to me because Kyle is a low and slow kind of guy.

Um And so when you say you're barbecuing something to me that's a brisket or um a pulled pork or something.

Whereas um grilling is just we're having hamburgers.

So, well, that's what I'm saying.

I have strong feelings about it and my feelings aren't strong.

That's what I thought.

I don't know.

Maybe I shouldn't have said everybody.

There are a lot of people out there who have strong feelings.

I actually looked this up because I was like, I don't even know which way I think.

And then I looked at it and I was like, oh, that makes sense to me.

Uh But I don't, it's not a hill.

I have to die on today.

Georgia Highway patrol also gets a mention.

And then that's one of my Southern references.

Anything in your references that we just need to talk About.

I was going to talk about Arthur Murray and the other one I had is behind closed doors, which is the song Daddy was singing when he was dancing with Julia.

It's a country song that was first recorded in 1963 by Charlie Rich.

Um so what is most interesting about this to me?

Uh when I looked into it is that they had to change some of the lyrics in the second verse after outcry that the lyrics were too racy.

I tried to Google this so hard and I could not figure out what lyrics were changed and what they were changed to what I can tell you is um these are the lyrics I found my baby makes me smile.

Lord, don't she make me smile.

She's never too far away or too tired to say I want you.

She's always a lady just like a lady should be.

But when they turn out the lights, she's still a baby to me.

And it reminds me of Taylor Swift in her new song Antihero.

She says everybody's a sexy baby and everybody's like, oh how creepy, sexy baby.

But apparently that's a reference to 30 rock.

I think it is.

But just this general like sexualizing babies thing gets weird.

Those lyrics were weird to me and those are the lyrics I found.

So I'm guessing those weren't the changed lyrics.

So then like, what were they super worried about?

If not that probably just all, also the era, like everything was what they considered racy and what people consider racy now are really different.

A baby to me.

Oh, so I don't think I'd like that song.

Yeah.

Anyway, that was my, that was my last reference we need to talk About.

So we get an intro reference to dash who's played by Delta's real life husband.

Your gray.

We've talked at length about all of that.

But, um, they make excuses for him not being there.

Suzanne doesn't want him to think they're not, they, they are more than friends.

But I think truthfully what was going on is that major?

Dad started in 1989.

So I think he's just very busy.

Yeah, that show was on for 560.

Yeah.

Not an insubstantial amount of time.

Um, a show that just quite frankly, I can't even imagine that, like being on for a long time today, but I really love made dad a lot.

It's cute.

Uh, Leonard Bernstein.

I, I feel like I'm saying it weird.

Is it Bernstein?

Bernstein?

You know what?

It's funny you say that I was going to bring it up earlier and then I was like, I don't know, um, she said it in the episode and I was like, is it Bernstein?

That's how they say it in that song that like it's the end of the World Song Land or Bernstein.

So maybe she said it right.

But when she said it, I was like, is it Bernstein?

And I feel like I want to say sten anyways.

So I could have looked into it.

I probably unlike all those idiots in the bar.

I know he's an American conductor, composer, pianist, music, educator, and author and also a humanitarian.

It's also a timely reference because the movie Maestro is coming, um coming out supposedly this year and it's directed by Bradley Cooper.

Bradley Cooper will also play him.

Um But I I thought it was interesting because this guy really is like, um he, he had a lot of passions outside of like, you know, composing.

He's best known for the musical West side story by the way, but he supported civil rights.

He protested against the Vietnam War.

He advocated nuclear disarmament.

He raised money for HIV research and awareness and the, this one's I think really interesting.

He conducted a historic performance of Beethoven's Symphony number nine in Berlin to celebrate the fall of the Berlin Wall, which was televised live worldwide on Christmas Day in 1989.

And he was also named Checked by R E M I say name check by uh the most important one.

But I, the other thing that's interesting about that is Christmas day in 1989.

That means that this reference in show reference happened just a few months before he did that historic performance.

Uh and it's um I just always like to bring us back to the place when I can like time and place Rodan.

This is a reference made in the show by Mary Jo who compares, I think it's Mary Jo because I had to go back to the script.

Their fight with daddy Jones and his sons was like going up against Rodan, which I, I feel when I'm saying that I feel like I'm saying Roseanne wrong.

Um but this is a fictional monster which first appeared as the title character in Ishi Honda's 1956 film Rodan produced and distributed by Toho.

I think this character is in the Godzilla universe.

Did you know this reference?

Ok.

And then the term slack jaw son is used and I feel like through inference, I could kind of pick up to me, it sounded like she was trying to say like mouth breather, which is not my favorite term, but you know, especially because I am one.

Um But it's with the mouth in an open position and the jaw hanging loosely, especially as indicating bewilderment and astonishment who among us hasn't felt slack jawed at one time or another.

So that's the last reference.

Ok.

The next episode, Nikki loved it.

I was stuck on Rodan because I was thinking of Rodan the like and then like, I never really thought much about it.

So then when you were talking about Rodan, I was like, is this the same like in the Godzilla universe?

What's happening?

So my mind is just in a couple of places right now and then slack jawed threw me for a loop and gadget a lot for me.

Uh Next episode, season four, episode five, the girlfriend, we'd love everyone to follow along with us.

Uh and engage.

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So come back Thursday for extra sugar, we're gonna talk about deliverance.

That's nice.

We said it together.

Oh, lovely.

All right.

Well, you know what that means, Nikki.

What does it mean, Salina?

It means I'm still adjusting to this process where we are splitting out extra sugar and we'll see you around the bend.