Designing Women S7 E5 Extra Sugar - Southern Suffragettes

This week’s Carlene episode opened the door to something we just have to talk about: Southern Suffragists (courtesy of Carlene’s boyfriend, Eric, giving Julia a book on the topic in episode 20). 

We’ll talk about the women’s suffragist movement generally, unpack the South’s role and what happened here, and wrap up by looking at some women (and men!) suffragists who helped make it happen. 

• Know your rights under ANY administration 

• Ways to advocate for your freedoms, our freedoms 

Other sources:

• Woman Suffrage in the Southern States (U.S. National Park Service)

• Southern States Woman Suffrage Conference - Wikipedia 

• White Southern Activists and Anti-Suffrage - Women & the American Story  

• “Make the Southern States White” - Visualizing Votes for Women

• Suffrage in the South: 100 Years Later | Atlanta History Center 

• Divided Legacy | National Women's History Museum  

• Four African American Suffragists You Should Know

Come on y’all, let’s get into it! 

Or listen on Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music.

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Transcript

Extra Sugar takes a closer look at Southern suffragists in Designing Women

Hey, Nikki.

Hey, Salina.

hey, y'all. And welcome to this week's Extra Sugar. In Designing Women Season 7, Episode 20 the Lying Game. We get a pretty deep cut reference when Carleen's new boyfriend Eric brings Julia a book about Southern suffragists. And so in mapping out the season, you and I both decided this was one taking a closer. One worth taking a closer look at. So today, that's what we're going to do. We're going to take a closer look at Southern suffragists. And I'm, Just to give you an idea of where we're headed, the first thing I want to do is give a little primer and backgrounder on the women's suffragist movement. I don't think most of us are tearing into that history every single day. and to make sure we're all on the same, we're starting from the same playing deck of cards here. When I say women's suffrage, I'm referring to a woman's right to vote. A suffragist was someone participating in the movement. A suffragette. Technically the same thing, but for the record, that was actually used as a pejorative. So I tried to take that out of this, segment so that we were using the, like, not kick you in the knee reference.

Thanks for.

And then. Yeah, and then we'll unpack the South's role and what was happening here, and we'll wrap up by taking a closer look at some Southern suffragists that I found both interesting and something that I thought would be worth sharing and rounding out our extra sugar today. Sound okay?

That sounds good.

So the word suffragette is the less preferred word

So the word suffragette is the less preferred word?

yeah. And I, you know, I think in, researching for this segment, that's honestly the first time I remember hearing that or reading that. It's possible. Knew that when I was nine. I. I just didn't remember that.

So is it because it's like the feminized version? So it's sort of like, what's the word? Like, oh, you cute little suffragette.

Diminutive?

Yeah.

Like belittling. Yeah, it kind of read that way to me.

Okay.

So I think also it's challenging for any of us to understand what life was like for women in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. What I did is I pulled some context from the Declaration of Sentiments to help frame things up a bit. This was the foundational document for women's rights drafted in Seneca Falls, New York at the first women's rights convention in July 1848. It was purposely written with the same framework as the Declaration of Independence, but specifically in this case, enumerating the areas of life where women were treated unjustly. It m started off by reading that the history of mankind is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations on the part of man toward woman, having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over her. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world. And then it went to specifics. And it also reminded me that, like, we really can't write today.

We sure can't. They knew their way around a pen and a piece of paper back in the day.

It's so flowery and beautiful. And I'm like, this is crap. Bite me. That would be how I started mine.

That's not true. Sometimes you add adjectives. So, like, this is a steaming pile of crap.

Please bite me hard.

It's a, steaming pile of crap that is burning my long and lustrous nose hairs. And you can bite me with your unstrained teeth.

That's pretty nice.

The American Equal Rights association springs up in 1866 to push for equal rights

All right, so here's the different ones that they called out. so married women were legally dead in the eyes of the law. Women were not allowed to vote. Women had to submit to laws when they had no voice in their formation. Married women had no property rights. Husbands had legal power over and responsibility for their wives to the extent that they could imprison or beat them with impunity. Divorce and child custody laws favored men, giving no rights to women. Women had to pay property taxes, although they had no representation in the levying of, these taxes. Most occupations were closed to women. And when women did work, they were paid only a fraction of what men earned. Women were not allowed to enter professions such as medicine or law. Women had no means to gain an education, since no college or university would accept women students. And with only a few exceptions, women were not allowed to participate in, in the affairs of the church. Women were robbed of their self confidence and self respect and were made totally dependent on men. Does that paint a picture?

A very vivid picture, in fact.

Sorry. Like, we said in the episode earlier this week, it's going to be a real upper. So after that we get a handful of different. And by that I mean the Declaration of Sentiments. We get a handful of different suffrage groups that I'm going to try and distill as much as I can. So the first group, the American Equal Rights association or the AERA, springs up in 1866. I want to say that's almost 20 years later. These are former abolitionists. Their aim, is suffrage for all, regardless of race or sex. And then Shortly after, the 14th and 15th Amendments are ratified, just as a reminder that in 1868, the 14th Amendment is that all persons born in the US were citizens and received due process. So this is specifically aiming at, slavery. And then also in 1870, black men were given the right to vote. So neither one of these protected women's rights. And so very angered by this, the two most famous AERA members, you've probably heard of them, Katie Stanton and Susan B. Anthony, split and started the National Woman's Suffrage association, or the Nurse. Their goal was to get the vote with a constitutional amendment, as well as things like unionization for women and marital rights. The long story, much shorter, is that by 1890, the predominant group in the movement was the National American Woman Suffrage association, or the nawsa. Don't worry. There will not be a test at the end. But I just think it's helpful that we see kind of like, where things started and where we are headed as we make our way into the South.

I'm super glad you didn't ask me. like, pop quiz me on the amendments, because those get dicey for me. And I think I would have gotten Susan B. Anthony, but Katie Stanton. I know the name when you say it. I don't think I could have come up with that, so thanks for that.

Well, and technically, her name's Elizabeth Katie Stanton, but I think I normally see it just as Katie Stanton, so I don't. We have to give each other the grace to learn. And remember what we learned in fourth grade.

We've, learned it. I think we need to relearn a time or two.

Why?

There was a lot of opposition to women's suffrage here in the South

so going on to the suffragist movement in the South. I know this will shock you to your absolute core. Okay. But there was a lot of opposition to women's suffrage here.

You don't say.

In the south, it's so weird, because today, everything is just so excellent, so.

Ahead of the curve.

And it wasn't just men. Female opponents feared voting would desex women, destroy the home, and lessen rather than strengthen women's power and influence. So according to women in the American story, anti suffrage was also closely linked to quote the ideology of the Confederacy and the mythology of the Lost Cause, placed significant emphasis on women's privileged role. White Southerners believe changes to womanhood threaten the Southern way of life and the empowering women through the vote, particularly black and poor. White women was dangerous. So, you know, a little sexism here, a little racism there, and we're off to the races.

Don't leave off classism, because there's classism m in there too.

amen. So the Lost cause. I don't know if everyone is familiar with that idea, but this, if you've ever heard things like the War of Northern Aggression or, gosh, no, it wasn't about preserving slavery. It was about industrialism versus agriculture. These are kind of the, historical narratives that started being more pervasive in the south after the Civil War. So I do think it's important to note that neither ism, or in this case, classism, racism, sexism, that any of these isms were isolated to the suffrage movement here in the South. Although we do have a special way of doubling and tripling down here. I can go into several examples, particularly racism, if you'd like. I got them right here, but I think you can probably put two and two together. Okay, but do you want to be really sad or just regular sad?

let's do regular sad today. I think I'm a little over sadded lately.

Okay, well, if anybody's just really wanting to know about it, trust me, the information is out there. I'm happy to share it with you as well.

Of the 10 states that failed to ratify the 19th Amendment, nine were southern

So let's talk about the Sals role, specifically in the 19th Amendment. So the rhetoric of the times must have been good and strong because of the 10 states that failed to ratify the 19th Amendment, nine were south of the Mason Dixon line. Just in case. just get us back on that same page again. The 19th amendment gave women the right to vote. Well, some women will get there. Also, shame on our home state of Georgia, who was the first state to vote against ratification of the 19th amendment. Good job, guys. In 1914, they became the first Southern branch of the National Association Opposed to Woman Suffrage. So that's cool. That larger group was started in New York state.

I mean, if we can't be first in education and we can't be first in healthcare access and we have to be first in obesity, like at, least we can also be first in hating women.

You can have it all. That is the lesson here. So luckily, four southern states broke rank at the time and they did ratify the amendment. Texas. I'm not going to make you guess. Are you glad?

Thank you.

Texas, Arkansas, Kentucky and Tennessee. In fact, it was Tennessee who became the crucial 36th state to ratify, providing the 3/4 majority required for women's suffrage to be added to the constitution. And the best part, the deciding vote came down to one man. Harry Burns. A 24 year old legislator who ratified the amendment because his mother told him to. This is my thing.

Women are so powerful.

Good job, mama Burns. No, Nikki. She would have been much more powerful if they had. If we hadn't gotten the right to vote. Because that's where our power really shined. Yep. You know, before we are just desexed and d. Everything else. You know, I know. You know that list I read you, it sounded great.

It did. Sounded like.

Sounded like such a good time.

Perfect life.

I'm, not angry. I like to consider myself aware.

After Tennessee women won right to vote in 1919, club women formed political alliance

So another interesting thing about Tennessee, According to a National Park Service article, after Tennessee women won the right to vote in municipal elections in 1919, black and white club women in Nashville created a coalition designed to increase the political influence of both. Making this is. This is a quote making a class and gender based alliance. Nashville women work to enact educational and social service reform as well as black representation in municipal services. The article also notes, and I'm sure you can tell just from hearing the rest of the things that I said to this point, that this was very unusual and remarkable that this alliance even happened in the first place. Because sadly, what you see over and over again, and what made this such a fun segment to pull together, is that the suffragist movement avoided association with black women in an attempt to sidestep essentially racist accusations lobbed by anti suffragists. So that idea that woman's suffrage would increase black women's political influence. Oh, no.

The 19th Amendment didn't officially ratify until 1970 in Georgia

Anyways, so I also want to touch on some things post ratification, because while the vote was a huge deal, it didn't change everything overnight. Far from it, I'm afraid. So Native American and Asian American women could not vote because they'd not been granted American citizenship. Here in the south, poll taxes, literacy tests, all white primaries, and threats of physical violence kept many southern women from voting. This was especially true for black women, but it also kept some white women from the polls as well. I imagine these were probably poor white women, which was what was pretty much indicated by the rest of the research that I did. So here in Georgia, the special state where we are, a technicality prevented Georgia women from participating in state elections until two years later. And though it didn't deny women the vote, the Georgia legislation later didn't officially ratify the 19th Amendment until 1970. I just stay annoyed with the state so mad now. I am mad, just to be clear. Okay, so voting Rights weren't truly secure for all genders and races, as history has taught us, until 1965 with the passage of the Voting Rights Act. And if you've been paying attention, the Voting Rights act has been gutted in recent years. I believe we've talked about that in previous seasons. You don't have to scroll far on your phone to find the ways that folks are using that to their advantage. All to say, and I cannot wrap this up in a bow for you enough. Voting is a right that is often treated like a privilege in this country. It is never not under threat. As promised.

Ida B. Wells founded civil rights and women's suffrage organizations

I wanted to mention some suffragists that you should know about. These are people specifically from the South. Let's start with Ida B. Wells. She was a journalist, a teacher, an abolitionist, a feminist, and an integral voice and leader advocating for black justice. Wells was born in Holly springs, Mississippi on July 16, 1862. This is about six months before the Emancipation Proclamation was decreed. This is what freed enslaved people across the Confederate States. Her own life experience, including the murder of a friend and his colleagues, led to her writing about race and politics in the south and most especially lynching. She eventually moved to and remained in Chicago after both she and her family were threatened and the newspaper she wrote for and co owned were both ransacked and burned. She eventually, so excuse me. When she's in Chicago, she published a Red Record which was an in depth report on lynching in America. Wells founded civil rights and women's suffrage organizations that played critical roles in advancing equity, including the national association for Colored Women and the Alpha Suffrage club. In the 1913 suffrage parade in Washington D.C. she was one of the women who was asked to march at the end of the parade to avoid offending the southern white suffragists. Wells refused and jumped in from the sidelines when the white women from Illinois pass by. I'm just going to pause for a second because I feel like we've been. Not we. I've been going a pretty fast clip, so I wanted to give you space to breathe. Space for me to breathe and just let me know if you had to reiterate what I would normally reiterate from the top, which is like if you have questions, let me know. No question questions. It's just, it's pretty clear.

It's just so crazy like you said earlier, because you wanted to do this segment in part because we don't spend a lot of time, with our history books and revisiting things like the women's suffrage movement. And I think it's really clear that maybe we should every once in a while dust off some of that, like, 7th grade civics and 10th grade social studies, political science sort of lessons. Because I, I stay astounded at how we are in the year 2025. And the things that you're saying are the things that worry me about where we are in the world today.

Yeah, that there.

And also it's so inspiring too though, because in the 1840s, a group of women got together and said, man, are we really tired of being told what to do? Man, are we really tired of being dehumanized? And so are we just due for like the 200th anniversary of some of that stuff? It just, it feels like maybe it's time.

I'm here for it. That's all I'm saying. You can just sign me right on up.

Crazy.

I know. It's really something. And I will say too, just to pause real quick before we go on to our last two suffrages. It's always disheartening, I think, as when we're doing this podcast, because part of the reason that we, it's harder to speak to the 1800s, to be honest, and into the early 1900s, but part of the reason that we were so moved to do this podcast was to let people know, hey, guys, it's not as bad as you think. You're in the south, there's some good things. Then I go do some research and I'm like, pretty bad. It's bad. So it's just like a little upsetting and you have to kind of recenter yourself. And that's why I also wanted to pull out these people who were part of the movement that did such meaningful things so that maybe we could feel a little, bit better about even though there was such nefarious things going on that there was such strength to push back on things that just didn't make sense and they weren't right.

Mary Church Terrell helped end segregated eating places in Washington in 1953

So Mary Church Terrell is the next person that I wanted to talk about now. She was an educator, an author, a social activist, and she was born to formerly enslaved parents on September 23, 1863, in Tennessee. She was one of the first African American women to receive a college degree from Oberlin College in Ohio in 1884. Then she received her master's degree in education as well, and married Robert Herbert Terrell. And this is DC's first black municipal judge. In addition to teaching, Terrell became active in the women's right movement. And she was the founder and first president of the national association of colored women in 1896. And their motto, which I really like, is lifting as we climb. And her savvy use of boycotts, picketing, and strategic use of the legal system helped put an end to segregated eating places in D.C. in 1953. The court would rule these discriminatory practices unconstitutional. I do think seeing 1953 is very important. When she was born in the 1800s.

Yeah.

So a little bit of a timeline there.

Frederick Douglass attended first women's rights convention in 1848

And then the last person that I wanted to talk about and leave space for is Frederick Douglass. A man who did not just talk the talk. This is a man who walked the walk. He attended the first women's rights convention and later helped establish the American Equal Rights association with Katie Stanton and Susan B. Anthony. I had mentioned that earlier in this segment. Then, listen to what he wrote in his newspaper, the North Star, after he attended the women's rights convention in 1848. Again in 1848. So we hold woman to be justly entitled to all we claim for man. We go farther and express our conviction that all political rights which it is expedient for man to exercise, it is equally so for women. All that distinguishes man as an intelligent and accountable being is equally true of woman. And if that government is only just, which governs by the free consent of the governed, there can be no reason in the world for denying to woman the exercise of the elective franchise or a hand in making and administering the laws of the land. Our doctrine is that right is of no sex. We hold women to be justly entitled to all we claim for man. We go further and express our conviction that all political rights which is expedient for man to exercise it is equally so for women. Wow. We can't get that kind of support from some men.

Frederick Douglass of today.

This was 1848. Be more like Frederick Douglass, y'all. It's really incredible. Honestly, I sat with that for a long time.

It is really astounding. I.

I think so often about the way we talk about women and treat women

So, you said a minute ago the motto was, lifting each other as we rise.

Lifting as we climb.

Lifting as we climb. I think so often about the way we talk about women and treat women. And again, it's particularly acute right now in some segments of our population. And I'm just. I can never rationalize why we think it's beneficial for families to hold women back. That one bothers me a lot as a mom, to hear someone, imply that somehow it's better for families for me to be held back. Because the way Frederick Douglass wrote about it is the way I think about it, which is we're, we're all here together, working together. So why wouldn't we want to spread, the decision making and spread the responsibility for our society among everyone? And I think that, I just, I can't understand the other side of it. And I, no matter how many times I try to squish my brain to understand it, it doesn't make sense to me.

Yeah, I mean, so I would never claim to be an, an expert in feminism, but I, you know, I know a thing or two. And I think that if you look back in its history, specifically when you see that those different waves fell apart, it's because we sort of miss that. First of all, we, we let ourselves collapse over wedge issues. But also somehow, some people involved in the movement, some people involved in a lot of different movements, they forget to turn around and grab the person behind them. And so that's something I think about a lot. I think about it a lot at work, I think about it a lot in my friendships, and I think about it, a lot. You and I talk a lot about straightening each other's crowns, you know, because it takes a community and it takes reminding and it takes a lot of energy to keep fighting because it, and I, and I almost hate to use the word fighting, but isn't it. It's hard to not think it is.

Sugar urges women to vote in November elections to protect women's rights

So this was for me, a really interesting time to take a closer look at the suffragist movement here in the US I'm not going to sit here and act like things haven't gotten better over the entire 249 year stretch. But it's also not lost on me. While looking back at the story of how women fought to have their voices heard, I sit here today and I watch as women fight hard still to have their voices heard. I'd like to drop some dates on you. So in 1900, women gained property and wage rights. In 1910, women could wear pants. In 1920, as we discuss today, white women could vote. In 1924, Native American women became citizens in their own country. In 1963, women gained equal pay rights. Sure, in 1965, black women could vote. In 1969, women were allowed to initiate divorce from their husbands. In 1972, women could get birth control without a man. In 1974, women could buy a home, get a credit card without a man. Now we're in our lifespan. 1988, women could own their own business without a man. In 1993, women gained legal protection against marital rape. In 2015, women can marry one another. And in 2022, Roe, v. Wade is struck down, effectively ending many women's access to abortion. But honestly, also other sexual health services, including things like condoms, birth control, and STI testing. There was some really brave, incredible, strong women who fought a long time ago for our right to vote. Not for the fun of it, but to make sure that we are heard and to have our unique set of needs met. And so today and always, I urge you to please, please not be apathetic. It's not for me, it's for you. Read and listen and discern. We don't have to agree on the issues, but I beg you to vote. And when you do, please know what you're signing up for, what you might be signing us all up for. Not voting hurts women everywhere. Saying you're not political, I'm sorry, but that is a little bit of a cop out. You don't have to canvass a neighborhood during an election. You don't have to run for office yourself. And you certainly don't have to read every news article and watch every talking head and flip out over every single issue. Protect yourself, by all means. But you might want to also consider knowing what's happening around you. What are our lawmakers and leaders doing and what are they suggesting for us and on our behalf, what might they be calling for in our name or in the name of our safety? So, if you're not familiar with the Defending Women executive order that was released on January 20, you probably should be. The full name of that executive order is Defending Women From Gender Ideology, Extremism, and Restoring Biological Truth to the federal government. First, And second, if something has to be 14 words long for you to wrap up a document, you probably should be a little questioning of it. In the first place, the order is in the name of protection for women as written from predators in bathrooms, in shelters, and in sports, and has made it the policy of the United States to only recognize two sexes, male and female. According to news reports in the press, LGBTQI resources were recently and unceremoniously deleted for a time from websites around the federal government. Again in the name of women's defense. But in actuality, if not rescinded, several organizations have stepped forward to say that this move would eradicate trans people from civic and public life with the stroke of a key it's endangering the health and well being of an estimated 2 million people. I've thought a lot about the Martin Niemoller quote, first they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out because I was not a socialist. And then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out. I wasn't a trade unionist. And then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak out because I was not a Jew. And then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me. So I deeply encourage everyone to pay attention to what's happening right now, what they're seeking to do. I promise we don't have to just sit back and let it happen. We'll link to some resources for things that you can do in the current environment. And that's this week's extra sugar.