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Episode 20: Eh, Integrity, Shmintegrity, How About A Mink Coat?

Updated: Aug 25, 2023

Money may not buy happiness, but it will buy you a tennis bracelet, Rolex, convertible Mustang, and a horse. The "Designing Women" find themselves literally caught in the crossfire of their new clients, The Tates, who are just as crazy as they are rich. Will our lady loves + Anthony make it out alive??

Hang around for this week’s "Extra Sugar", where we talk about Bill “Bojangles” Robinson after a subtle reference drop from Anthony.

Want more? Check out some of these Bill Robinson reads:

Come on, let’s get into it!



Salina: Hey, Nikki.

Nikki: Hey, Salina.

Salina: And hello, everyone.

Nikki: I forgot we're supposed to do that now.

Nikki: Hey, sweeties.

Salina: It's not just about it's not just about us.

Salina: It's about others.

Salina: And that's really what today's episode is going to be about.

Salina: Maybe, I don't know.

Salina: It's late again.

Salina: We like to do these nice and late so you get us at our very best.

Nikki: We don't like to do them nice and late.

Nikki: It's the only time we can do them.

Salina: I just wish I could have some coffee right now.

Salina: Jonesing so we are here to talk about episode 20 today.

Salina: But before we jump into seams from a marriage, I have a little something for you.

Nikki: What's that?

Salina: Remember back on episode ten, slumber party?

Nikki: Yes.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: And I told you when you started to talk about Howard Hughes, I said my aunt is going to have uh huh.

Salina: The lady had some comments.

Salina: Oh, no, she didn't follow instructions, I don't think, unless you got an did.

Nikki: I haven't gotten an email.

Salina: Teresa, teresa.

Salina: Teresa.

Nikki: Come on, Aunt Teresa.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: We were looking forward to your email.

Nikki: I know.

Nikki: So I could ignore it line by line.

Salina: Well, instead, here we're going to address it line by line.

Nikki: Say, if you send the email, I get it and I ignore it.

Nikki: If you send Salina a text, you know she's going to report back.

Salina: I can't help.

Salina: So, like, I know you had done a mini deep dive on Howard Hughes.

Nikki: At the time, so she had apparently not deep enough.

Salina: You got to get all the way for Aunt Teresa.

Salina: You got to get all the way in.

Salina: Well, she knows a lot about Howard Hughes.

Salina: So she had some thoughts she didn't like having.

Salina: She didn't have necessarily corrections for you.

Salina: I think they were more like Addendums.

Nikki: Oh, okay.

Salina: I think you had said, for starters, something about number one, something about how they couldn't find his body.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: So she said there are pictures of his body and he had an autopsy.

Nikki: I feel like go ahead, argue with her, Teresa.

Nikki: I feel like, yes, some people say that there are lots of pictures of lots of bodies, and people still aren't sure they're really dead.

Nikki: So I feel I'm not saying that's real or not.

Nikki: I'm saying the conspiracy that I heard was that there may have been pictures of the body, but was it really his?

Salina: So we've moved from we're just reporting on the facts that we read to we're just reporting on the conspiracies that we read.

Nikki: To be fair, we are now at episode 20.

Nikki: That was episode ten.

Nikki: We've grown since then.

Salina: Well, so I was going to say I read something similar to you.

Salina: Do with that what you will.

Nikki: Do with that what you will.

Salina: So you also talked about the Kleenex boxes.

Salina: He wore those as shoes.

Salina: There was a whole story about it.

Salina: Spend some time here's what she shared on that.

Salina: So he had managed his OCD pretty well until his plane crashes.

Salina: And that seems to be the turning point towards some of these.

Nikki: I get that.

Salina: And so it wasn't just the Kleenex boxes.

Salina: I can't remember if we talked about this or not, but I remember from things I've watched and read that he also kept jars of his own urine and toenail clippings.

Nikki: I don't think we went that far, but yes, I also read that.

Salina: Well, just to say this is serious.

Salina: I think also, she said these crashes caused lots of burns and broken bones.

Salina: So I think just generally, like, physically, mentally, it was like a lot of scarring.

Salina: Something about his dad, I assume she's telling me this because this is how he came into his money.

Salina: Initially, he invented the diamond drill drill bit, which is still used today.

Salina: And so I almost went down a total rabbit hole on just this thing.

Salina: And I'm going to come back to eventually we're going to do an extra sugar on bras.

Nikki: It feels like there will be an opportunity at some point, a show about women by women.

Salina: So he invented a type of bra.

Nikki: Of course he did, because men should be inventing bras.

Nikki: Can I just say that fair.

Salina: So she called it the bullet bra.

Salina: When I looked it up.

Nikki: Is it like the Madonna?

Salina: So, yes, I wish you guys could have seen the visual that went along with that.

Salina: So when she's saying Madonna bra, if you don't know this, it's like the conical, conical conish.

Nikki: It's the pointies, the pointies the triangles on her boobies.

Salina: Like a bullet, if you will.

Salina: So I looked it up and I guess it's also called a cantilever bra.

Nikki: Cantilever.

Salina: Oh, boy, oh, boy.

Salina: I don't know my bras.

Nikki: That's just my guess.

Salina: That's why look how pretty she said that.

Salina: And then that's where you see my Southern kick in and my Hooked on Phonics cantilever.

Salina: Anyways, so he made this bra for his girlfriend, Jane Russell.

Nikki: She hated him, broke up with him, and they never were together again.

Salina: Well, so Jane Russell was very famous at the time and apparently very famous, but had pointed boobies.

Salina: But anyways, this is the kicker.

Salina: Apparently he invented this bra on the basis of bridge building.

Salina: Yeah, got to get that suspension.

Salina: That's all I can imagine, I guess.

Nikki: Oh, he used the theories behind bridge building to develop a bra because you got to equitably distribute the weight and the force and the gravity.

Salina: You're like a bridge builder.

Nikki: Oh, I've built a bridge or two in my life.

Nikki: Haven't we all burned more something?

Salina: Well, let's build bridges tonight.

Nikki: Let's do it.

Salina: Let's build bridges and bras.

Nikki: You're building a bridge between me and Aunt Teresa.

Nikki: I feel like she could learn me a thing or two.

Salina: Oh, she will.

Salina: She will learn you a thing or two.

Salina: He liked the ladies.

Salina: He was a bit of a playboy.

Salina: She specifically mentions Ginger Rogers.

Salina: Dumped him for cheating.

Salina: He was with a bunch of famous women.

Salina: So I honestly don't know why she mentioned her specifically.

Salina: Ginger Rogers.

Salina: She's a dancer.

Nikki: Bret Astaire and Ginger Rogers.

Salina: Beautiful.

Salina: Angelia Johnson.

Salina: What?

Salina: Ginger Rogers?

Salina: Yes.

Salina: I don't know, 922 guys.

Salina: He was a genius who transformed the world, especially air travel.

Salina: These are her words at this point.

Salina: And then she's just giving you her thoughts at this point.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: Move from facts to thoughts.

Nikki: Sure.

Salina: And he was one of the most fascinating men who ever lived and lived 1000 lives.

Nikki: Well, there you go.

Salina: Got real poetic there at the end.

Salina: So you haven't watched The Aviator?

Salina: I've not with Leonardo DiCaprio.

Salina: He plays Howard Hughes.

Salina: Just catching everyone up.

Salina: Neither has she.

Salina: She refuses to watch it because she thinks that she was like, no, I tried to watch it.

Salina: He did not capture the spirit of Howard Hughes.

Salina: That's Aunt Teresa talking, not me.

Salina: Leo, come on the show.

Nikki: We think you're great.

Salina: Sure.

Nikki: Love Titanic.

Nikki: Hated to see you die.

Nikki: I also enjoyed what's eating Gilbert Grape.

Salina: Look at all this.

Nikki: Marvin's room.

Salina: It's beautiful.

Nikki: He was great on growing pains.

Nikki: I can do the deep cuts.

Salina: Yeah, look at this filmography.

Salina: So I just wanted to make sure that I was coming back and letting you know what she said.

Salina: Teresa, your facts have been shared.

Salina: We appreciate you.

Nikki: Thank you.

Nikki: Thank you very much.

Salina: Don't be afraid to use the email account that Nikki took so much painstaking time to set up is what we're saying.

Nikki: It's there for you.

Nikki: There for your use.

Salina: So would you like to talk about episode 20 Seams From a Marriage?

Nikki: Would I like to.

Nikki: Do we need to?

Nikki: We need to.

Nikki: So we'll go that route.

Nikki: Seems from a marriage.

Nikki: Our hulu episode description is integrity and values are tested when Sugar Bakers acquires a flamboyant spendthrift couple as their latest client.

Nikki: This one was written by LBT.

Nikki: And e.

Nikki: Jack Kaplan.

Nikki: Salina has notes for me here that he was a supervisory producer for nine Designing Women episodes this season.

Nikki: He also wrote for Filthy Rich, an earlier show created by LBT.

Nikki: Which also starred Delta Burke and Dixie Carter.

Nikki: This one was directed by Jack Shea.

Nikki: Salina also has a note here.

Nikki: She'd like to report back some facts to you guys.

Nikki: I'll turn it over to you, Salina.

Salina: Well, you could, but I didn't put it in my notes.

Nikki: So in episode 19, we couldn't remember where we knew Jack Shea from.

Nikki: I was thinking maybe he had directed also Golden Girls or Gilmore Girls.

Nikki: So we were just sort of pontificating about it.

Nikki: Salina does her homework and reported back that he was known for directing Designing Women and The Jeffersons.

Nikki: But he also directed episodes of Growing Pains, another favorite of mine.

Nikki: And Sister Sister, also a favorite of mine.

Nikki: So it wasn't Gilmore Girls or Golden Girls.

Nikki: That was Matthew Diamond.

Nikki: You say that he directed.

Nikki: Oh, Susanna, episode 18.

Salina: Well, I don't.

Salina: Internet Movie Database does.

Nikki: So it had been the span of one episode in which I forgot who Jack Shea was and what he had directed.

Nikki: So sorry about that.

Salina: I think it's just fine.

Nikki: So thanks for reporting back on that.

Nikki: So there we are.

Nikki: Here we go, act one.

Nikki: They got some new clients.

Nikki: This first act sets up that there are some new clients that they are very happy to spend money and share money and that Julia is not crazy about them.

Nikki: So that's the big picture.

Nikki: The cold open has us at Sugar Bakers.

Nikki: Most everyone is doing something.

Nikki: Anthony, I think, is missing from the scene, but most everyone is doing something, and it all involves the Tates, who are their new clients.

Nikki: We've got Charlene over here talking about TV that she's going to watch.

Nikki: Suzanne is painting.

Nikki: Never knew this about her.

Nikki: She's a painter.

Nikki: Julia's doing something with fabric.

Nikki: And Julia is sort of coming down on all the women individually about how much they've oh, and Mary Jo's missing.

Nikki: Mary Jo's missing because she is with the Tates, presumably.

Nikki: Julia is kind of giving everyone a once over because they have all become enthralled with these new wealthy clients of theirs.

Nikki: And Mary Jo's spending forever with them.

Nikki: She's spending whole nights with them.

Nikki: Charlene is on the phone with Sissy Tate all the time.

Nikki: The only one who has not lost their mind is Anthony.

Nikki: And he's the one that stands to gain the most from having wealthy friends, right?

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: Julia's words, not mine.

Salina: I mean, I'll take some wealthy friends.

Nikki: So she says Anthony is the only one that does his job and comes home.

Nikki: And then Anthony comes home and he's wearing a new cowboy hat.

Salina: The biggest cowboy hat I've ever seen.

Nikki: It's like a 20 gallon hat.

Salina: They're ten gallons, though, right?

Nikki: Not his.

Salina: No, there's no way.

Salina: It is.

Salina: Definitely.

Salina: Is it Yosemite Sam?

Salina: It's definitely his hat.

Salina: It's like a 50 gallon hat.

Salina: I don't know.

Nikki: It's quite big.

Nikki: So he comes home with a story behind it.

Nikki: Here's our plug for extra Sugar this week.

Nikki: His story and a reference that he makes in the story becomes our extra Sugar this week.

Nikki: We're going to dive into a potential reference there.

Nikki: So hang around for that.

Nikki: Suffice it to say, he has a kind of a cute story about how he came to have this hat, and it involves him now being ingratiated to the Tates, going against Julia's point, which was he's the only one that's kept his mind about all.

Salina: Well, and then Mary Jo does finally make an appearance.

Nikki: She finally does.

Nikki: She comes in looking a little worse for the wear, a little crumpled.

Salina: Well, it seems like the Tates are okay, so they like to give a lot of gifts, but it sounds like they're very exhausting.

Nikki: They do seem exhausting.

Nikki: They are very social people.

Nikki: So Mary Jo reveals that she spent the night with Sissy and Shelby.

Nikki: They needed to hunt down a specific color, tate or green.

Nikki: I loved it.

Nikki: They needed to hunt it down.

Nikki: And it involved going to their lake house.

Nikki: But they had to fly her there on a helicopter because that was the fastest way there.

Salina: Houseboat.

Nikki: Sorry.

Nikki: Houseboat.

Nikki: A lake is involved.

Nikki: Yes.

Nikki: So they fly her there on a houseboat on a helicopter.

Salina: It's magical.

Nikki: And then they bring in like 50 or 60 of their closest friends as well and have a whole night out.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: They have a country western band.

Salina: They've got an cajun buffet.

Salina: I still can't get over the fact that they flew all the way there for a life preserver for a color of green.

Nikki: Rich people.

Nikki: Am I right?

Salina: Telling you, this was one of my.

Nikki: Favorite lines from Suzanne was here where she says, I've always felt it was a bunch of bunk that rich people weren't happy.

Nikki: It's just something poor people made up to make themselves feel better.

Nikki: Truth is, the rich people are having a very good time.

Salina: She's so insightful.

Nikki: She is.

Salina: Well, I thought one of the things that kind of give us some insight into who the Tates are and who are designing women and men are spending time with are designing people is that while Mary Jo's there, she kind of relays the story that someone offers her $5,000 to decorate their kids doll house.

Nikki: Oh, yeah.

Salina: I mean, that doesn't really tell you everything you need to know.

Nikki: That's true.

Salina: I don't know what does.

Nikki: That's true.

Salina: But Julie is p*****.

Nikki: I have distressed, but that'll work, too.

Nikki: She's really upset.

Nikki: She lets the women she reminds the women, lets them know I don't know that this has happened to a lot of other decorators.

Nikki: They get caught up with the Tates, they end up losing their job or quitting their job.

Nikki: And she doesn't want that to happen to them.

Nikki: So Mary Jo tells Julia, basically, you do better yourself.

Salina: You go deal with and but there's a little something that happened in between there.

Salina: I'm going to tell them what happened.

Nikki: Go ahead, Salina.

Salina: So she's, like, fiddling around with her jacket or something and a diamond bracelet falls out.

Salina: I guess that's a tennis bracelet.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: Anyways, and she says Sissy just gave it to her, put it on her because she unstopped a toilet.

Salina: No one's ever given me anything for unstopping a toilet.

Salina: So first of all, I'm insulted.

Nikki: What about you, Salina?

Nikki: How many toilets have you unstopped for your friends and family?

Salina: Oh, none.

Nikki: So how do you know?

Nikki: Maybe there's a diamond bracelet waiting at.

Salina: The end in my future.

Salina: Another funny thing that happens here, too, is Suzanne runs over her jeweler's loop.

Salina: Yeah, she's ready.

Nikki: It's real.

Salina: Well, it's funny, too, because she know in case someone forces jewelry on me, I like to have one on hand.

Nikki: It's probably happened to her a time or two.

Salina: I believe that's probably the case.

Salina: She's very attractive.

Salina: I don't know if you know that or not.

Nikki: It comes out in the scene.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: There's a diamond bracelet.

Nikki: There was a scarab ring that Charlene got which I tried to look up, and I'm still not sure I know what a scarab ring is, but I know what a scarab is.

Nikki: So I'm just making a leap over there.

Nikki: There's a scarab ring, and Charlene shares that.

Nikki: Mrs.

Nikki: Tate's going to hook them up with her best psychic.

Nikki: She has a lady in Scandinavia who will grow hair for you.

Nikki: So there's, like this list of crazy gifts and things that the Tates have been giving the women.

Nikki: So that comes out.

Nikki: Mary Jo says, you go take care of it.

Nikki: And Julia says, Cool.

Nikki: I can handle it, no problem.

Salina: Except she's not a designer.

Salina: Right, Julia?

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: I didn't think she had designer skills.

Nikki: Oh, is she?

Salina: Never.

Salina: I thought Mary Jo was the so, but, I mean, maybe, you know, underneath a false impression there, but I was a little hmm.

Salina: I thought she was this business end.

Nikki: That episode where the man cheats on his wife to be with Charlene.

Nikki: It's Julia who goes to consult the client with Mary Jo.

Salina: That's right.

Nikki: She was playing with the fabrics.

Nikki: So hard to say.

Nikki: So hard to say.

Nikki: These aren't real people.

Nikki: So Julia goes off to figure out the Tates, and she comes back after some amount of time and explains, like, she really took care of this.

Nikki: I set some boundaries.

Nikki: I'm a really good boundary setter.

Nikki: Sometimes all you got to do is just tell them we're doing business here, and that's how Big Woman does it.

Nikki: And she turned down all kinds of things, including a horse.

Nikki: They wanted to give her a horse.

Nikki: I've never been offered a horse.

Nikki: I probably would take it, but I have no scruples.

Nikki: Then somebody rings the doorbell.

Nikki: Charlene answers, and her horse has come.

Salina: A calling while Julia is still going on her whole high horse, if you will.

Salina: I'm a high.

Salina: I mean, because she's basically sitting there verbally drafting the power of the positive.

Salina: So it's pretty great.

Nikki: So the horse shows up, and it's clear that Julia didn't do much for their boundaries.

Salina: I'd say the crux of it here by the middle of the episode.

Nikki: What'S that, Salina?

Salina: Well, Nikki is doing, like, shooter McGavin guns at me.

Salina: Don't know why.

Salina: Distracting me.

Nikki: Sorry.

Nikki: You can start over.

Salina: No, it's wonderful.

Salina: Keep it in.

Salina: They'll love it.

Salina: So by the middle of this episode, I'd say our Designing women find themselves pretty much completely caught up in what is basically the Tate's very dysfunctional marriage.

Salina: So there is actually a cut scene here.

Salina: It's not a whole scene, but just a very brief part between Charlene and Suzanne.

Salina: Did you notice this one?

Nikki: No, I didn't.

Salina: They're talking about Suzanne's.

Salina: Beautiful artwork, and I don't even know if you remember what the artwork looks looks?

Nikki: I can tell you it looks like a police composite of prostitutes.

Salina: It's just not appropriate.

Nikki: That's what Julia said.

Nikki: I didn't say that.

Salina: All right?

Salina: That's not Nikki.

Salina: Well, Charlene and Suzanne are talking about her artwork now, and they're commenting on the fact, or at least Charlene is that you keep drawing the same person over and over again.

Salina: She's like, no, wait, it's Bambi in full makeup.

Nikki: Oh, I did notice this.

Salina: So that part was I was like, okay, again, good cut.

Salina: Hulu, I guess.

Salina: But importantly, we also learned that Sissy was planning to hold an exhibit for Suzanne's work.

Salina: So I think it's just important to kind of keep in our minds, like, all the different ways that the Tates are buying, you know, buying them, sharing their love.

Nikki: Tomato, tomato.

Salina: So what we wind up finding out through a phone call with Charlene is that, to cut to the chase, julia was in Miami overnight with Mr.

Salina: Tate, with Shelby, and eating stone crabs, apparently.

Salina: So this all comes from Sissy, who is talking to Charlene on the phone and probably not very happy about all of this.

Salina: While this is going on, Julia sneaks in.

Salina: She's wearing is it Mr.

Salina: Gadget?

Salina: Go.

Salina: Go.

Salina: Gadget.

Nikki: Oh, inspector Gadget.

Salina: Thank you.

Salina: Well, that joke's ruined anyway.

Salina: She's wearing a trench coat.

Nikki: Not on me.

Salina: No, this one's me.

Nikki: Really?

Salina: Just took that joke down to nothing.

Salina: But anyway, so she's in a trench coat.

Salina: Like, she comes shuffling inspector.

Salina: Does that count?

Salina: I remember that.

Nikki: You got it.

Salina: How did I forget the inspector part?

Nikki: You were thinking about Mr.

Nikki: Bojangles for extra sugar.

Salina: Oh, must be.

Salina: So she's lying.

Salina: I don't know how else to put it.

Salina: She's been out on a morning walk.

Nikki: And her trench coat and maybe some flashing people.

Salina: That's just not very respectful.

Salina: Put your nibbles away.

Nikki: Too early.

Salina: Right?

Salina: But Suzanne calls her on know, she's like, I know what you look like.

Salina: We're sisters.

Salina: I know when you're lying.

Salina: But Julia, this whole thing, she swears up and down.

Salina: She only went because Mr.

Salina: Tate is a businessman.

Salina: I don't know if you've heard this line before, but he's busy.

Salina: And so they were going over the blueprints of his dressing room, but it's hard for anyone to swallow all this because she's wearing a bib?

Nikki: It happens to the best of us.

Salina: Sometimes you forget.

Salina: She takes her jacket off.

Salina: She's wearing a bib because she won a crab leg or a crab eating contest.

Salina: Not crab legs.

Salina: I'm going to ask you something.

Salina: Does this sound like Julia behavior?

Nikki: Not at all.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: Competitiveness.

Nikki: I could see that.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: But a food eating contest?

Salina: I see the words uncouth just reverberating through her mind, or at least her just making some sort of snarky.

Salina: Well, isn't that you know, I thought that was kind of I mean, it was funny.

Salina: To see her in it, but I wasn't sure I was buying it.

Salina: Mary Jo does call her out for getting too involved.

Salina: And Charlene is concerned.

Salina: Sissy is getting jealous.

Salina: And just like a Designing Women queue Entrot's.

Salina: Malcolm Box, mr.

Salina: Tate's private investigator.

Nikki: Also in a trench coat.

Salina: Yes, I mean, we're talking about he was just short of the magnifying glass.

Salina: Just like, inspecting things.

Nikki: Very Inspector Gadget.

Salina: But like, tired.

Nikki: Little worse for the wear.

Salina: So I want to hear if you had any observations.

Salina: But I just want to, like I didn't love this scene.

Nikki: I don't know, random.

Salina: Just thought we'd just cut to the chase.

Salina: Again, I like it when I cut to the chase and then ten minutes.

Nikki: Go by five minutes later.

Salina: Oh, that's nice of you to say.

Salina: It's only five.

Nikki: It's at 25.

Salina: Dang.

Nikki: It 26.

Salina: How dare you?

Salina: So basically this is where we learn that the Tates have marital problems.

Salina: Over the course of this scene with Mr.

Salina: Box, we learn that they both have PiS that follow each other around.

Salina: They've been collecting dirt on each other for years and basically building a case against each other in case anybody ever decides to get divorced.

Salina: 16 years.

Nikki: It seemed like this is bothering you.

Nikki: You and Casey don't have PiS on each other?

Salina: Oh, yeah.

Salina: On a retainer, of course.

Nikki: Right, okay.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: You seem bothered by this.

Salina: No, I mean, it's great.

Salina: I guess Sissy's pi is there because he's gotten a hold of some pictures.

Nikki: Of them getting on the plane in a compromising position.

Salina: Right.

Salina: I guess she fell or something.

Salina: Yeah, but why?

Nikki: Fell right into his arms.

Salina: You cleaned that up.

Salina: We'll go with your version.

Salina: I was going to take it down in the dumps to five.

Salina: So anyways, she has an excuse about it, and obviously we know that nothing really happened, but he wants her to sign it because it's like, again, this growing body of evidence that she likes to keep on hand.

Salina: Julia's not having it.

Salina: And basically he leaves and says, you'll regret this.

Salina: But the other thing that feels pertinent to the story is I said that he looks tired earlier.

Salina: I mean, this guy's basically been ruined by the Tates.

Salina: He's very clear about that.

Salina: Does people's ruin and demise just give you the chuckles?

Nikki: It's so ridiculous.

Nikki: It's just so crazy.

Nikki: I wasn't always like this, you know.

Nikki: I had a marriage, I had kids.

Nikki: Then I ended up going down the.

Salina: All the I don't mean this in a mean way, but yes, all the dialogue is ridiculous.

Salina: But in terms of like, he did lose his clients, his wife and his kids.

Salina: I mean, the Tates, they have bad news.

Salina: I mean, I think that's what we're really getting here.

Salina: Once he leaves, we have something happen that we tell me if I'm wrong here, maybe I'm misremembering, but I don't think we've ever seen what we see next.

Salina: And that's basically that they all turn on each other.

Nikki: No, I think we've had individual women turn on one another, but not the whole clan.

Salina: And so I wrote down just a couple of the ways because it really is very like it's almost like dominoes.

Salina: So Suzanne points to Julia for her overnight trip with Shelby alone.

Salina: Julia points the finger at everyone else for accepting the trips and gifts in the first place.

Salina: Mary Jo and Suzanne insinuate julia has kept the know that same old bit.

Salina: Julia accuses Suzanne of sucking up to the rich.

Salina: Suzanne tells on Charlene for hiding a Rolex watch from them in her bottom drawer.

Salina: Charlene yells at Suzanne to keep her alimony checks out of her desk.

Salina: And I'm out of breath.

Salina: It's kind of bad.

Salina: I mean, it's funny.

Nikki: It's hilarious.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: I mean, I was laughing a lot.

Nikki: But there's a lot going on there.

Salina: We will get around to the fact that how much we love this episode so much.

Nikki: So much.

Salina: This part actually I did enjoy a little bit.

Nikki: Good.

Salina: Well, it was 4 seconds of the show.

Salina: Meanwhile, while they're having this little, they've hung up on two customers.

Salina: It straight up been like, no, call again later.

Salina: Right.

Salina: Because they're fighting, and now they're mean to a client who comes through the door with a question.

Salina: So they stop their nonsense.

Salina: They agree this is not who we set out to be.

Salina: They're all going to the Tates and they're going to quit right now.

Salina: They sure love to do things as groups.

Salina: They do prostitute interventions, quitting clients, slumber part.

Salina: We are doing everything together in lockstep.

Salina: This one I actually think makes sense.

Salina: More so than some of the other ones.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: Because they've all had an individual relationship with the Tates.

Salina: That but also they've all proven that they're not good at it.

Nikki: Oh, right.

Nikki: So maybe they're combined powers combined.

Salina: We'll quit the Tates.

Salina: Yeah, we'll say something like that.

Salina: Yeah, you can't quit me.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: Something.

Salina: Anyways, the scene ends with them thanking the woman who brought them to their senses.

Salina: And Julia turns to her.

Salina: Jong Q.

Salina: Public.

Salina: How can we serve you, dude?

Salina: She just needs the bathroom.

Salina: Also, Joan Q.

Salina: Public I thought that was pretty rude.

Salina: If I had been that lady, I would have turned to her and been like, I'm sorry, who are you, the queen of England?

Salina: I just did not care for that.

Nikki: God, you got so much south.

Nikki: I was like, yes.

Nikki: Can I use your party, please?

Nikki: I've been listening to your fight for ten minutes.

Salina: Just need beep be just full sass.

Salina: She could have just squatted.

Salina: She was like 112.

Salina: I feel like she would have had a very good excuse.

Salina: And that pretty much takes us out of that scene.

Nikki: So in this scene, Salina, we finally meet the Tates.

Salina: I didn't know we were going to I thought they were going to do that like consuela.

Salina: Yeah, I thought maybe we were never going to see them.

Salina: So for me at least the fact that they decided to introduce them was like a teensy bright spot.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: So we're meeting them, the scene opens and we're in the tate's.

Nikki: It's like a den.

Nikki: There's like things on the wall.

Nikki: He calls it his man room or something.

Nikki: Gun room.

Nikki: Man room, gun room.

Nikki: Same thing.

Nikki: There's like animals on the wall and whatnot.

Nikki: But they're trying really hard to keep the women on staff.

Nikki: Okay, I'm going to skip over my question of like are these women on retainer?

Nikki: Because then they mention a very brief project.

Nikki: It's just a couple more weeks.

Nikki: But they don't have a discrete project they're working on.

Salina: No, we've heard something different every time.

Nikki: Yeah, it's weird.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Mary Jo, the whole thing with the life preserver and that green color master bedroom.

Salina: When Julia goes she is showing the blueprints for the dressing room.

Nikki: Right.

Salina: So it sounds like there's a lot of bouncing around.

Salina: So yeah.

Salina: I don't know why it would just.

Nikki: Be a few more weeks not to take us down a rabbit hole because we have things to cover.

Nikki: The Tates are trying to keep them.

Nikki: Sissy Tate goes through all the reasons she loves the women and she loves the phone conversations with you look like you have things to good.

Nikki: She loves the phone conversations with Charlene.

Nikki: Mary Jo is so agreeable and beige is a great color.

Nikki: Unless you don't like beige, in which case, oh, beige is kind of boring.

Nikki: Let's go a different route.

Nikki: So she has something she loves about each one of the women.

Nikki: Was there anything in that section that stood out to you?

Salina: Yeah, they seem like compliments, but they're like slap laments.

Salina: She is calling Mary Jo Spineless.

Salina: She basically accuses Suzanne of having fake breasts.

Nikki: Oh, you know, I didn't read any of that that way at all except Mary Jo's.

Salina: Well, there's a reason I think did, but and I'll say that in a second also, it is not a big deal to have fake breasts, so I just want to make that clear.

Salina: But the way that she did it, it was like an insulting way.

Nikki: That is so crazy to me because I'm watching it thinking it was totally a compliment.

Salina: I don't think so with breasts.

Nikki: I'm still not convinced are not made of silicone.

Nikki: Oh, you're blowing my mind.

Salina: I think that she may not even realize what she does, but when you think about two people who have PiS on each other all the just I don't think we're dealing with people who are super genuine.

Salina: I kind of interpret the thing with Charlene as she was saying, you talk a like because she was like, somebody even talks more than I do.

Salina: Hers was the least bad.

Nikki: We were watching two it's the charlene with Mary Jo's dad in a bar all over again.

Nikki: We are watching two different shows right.

Salina: Now, or are we just presenting two different options?

Salina: That's true.

Salina: For everyone to true.

Salina: So and then she basically calls Julia a b.

Nikki: What did she say about Julia?

Salina: She says it's presented as nice, but I think I'd have to pull up the script.

Salina: I can't do that on the fly.

Salina: Let me tell you why I think all this feels like slap laments to me.

Salina: It's also because of what Shelby does.

Salina: Right before she does this, he says something that nice.

Salina: He says money's just paper.

Salina: You trade it in for the things you want.

Salina: But if you can't spend it on people you like, what's the point in keeping it around?

Salina: Then he proceeds to take a bunch of cash out of his wallet and he throws it at the women.

Salina: So I just think that these are people who are used to getting their way.

Salina: They're used to buying people, and I don't know, I don't see them as trustworthy.

Salina: And I think that is why I very much so interpreted these things that are put on as a compliment to have a little bit of a double meaning.

Nikki: I get that.

Nikki: You took it real deep on me.

Salina: Sorry.

Nikki: She says that Julia is unintimidatable.

Nikki: It's the same soul, just a different package.

Salina: And there's something in the different package interesting.

Salina: And you have to remember, this is the woman who went on a plane with her husband overnight, right.

Salina: And she doesn't know what happened with them.

Salina: And I wasn't sure.

Salina: I was like, is the package better?

Salina: Is the package what's going on there?

Nikki: Left open to interpretation, one might say.

Salina: I might have examined a little closely.

Salina: It's this job we're getting paid for.

Nikki: The millions, just raking it in.

Salina: But this worked on Julia.

Nikki: Yeah, I guess so.

Nikki: The women all sort of agree that they'll stay on a couple more weeks and finish the project out, because that's all it's going to take to redecorate every room in this couple's entire life.

Salina: Just a couple of weeks.

Nikki: But things go sideways only a little bit.

Nikki: They start to pull out guns.

Nikki: It starts with Sissy saying they're going to start right there in the gun room.

Salina: Right there in the gun room.

Salina: You got to redecorate that gun room.

Nikki: And Shelby's.

Nikki: Like we're not starting.

Nikki: Sissy says, no, no, this beautiful vase that's in here.

Nikki: I want to decorate the whole room around this vase.

Nikki: And he tells her, no, there's vases all over the house.

Nikki: You can decorate whole other rooms around that vase.

Nikki: So he goes and grabs his gun and shoots the vase.

Nikki: So now you got nothing to decorate around.

Salina: He'll fight to keep it.

Salina: That's what he says.

Nikki: And she goes to get her gun.

Nikki: She shoots like a moose head off the wall or something, right?

Salina: An already dead animal.

Salina: There was a missing line there where she said something about being creeped out by all those animals.

Nikki: Oh, okay.

Salina: Good.

Salina: So agreed.

Salina: But why are you going to shoot a man while he's down?

Salina: It's not the animal's fault.

Salina: Then he shoots something else.

Nikki: What else?

Salina: Some kind of random chotchki of hers.

Salina: And right around that time, because it's, like, exploding.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: The shrapnel is flying.

Nikki: Things are happening.

Nikki: The women make their run for it.

Salina: They do.

Nikki: They say they're out.

Nikki: They're going to make an emergency exit or something, and they run for the door.

Nikki: So they flash back to Sugar Bakers.

Nikki: The door opens.

Nikki: It's dark.

Nikki: You only see their silhouettes.

Nikki: And they're having a conversation where they're saying, like, talking about their integrity and how they're going to be these upstanding people, blah, blah, blah.

Nikki: All these really nice words.

Nikki: Then they flip the lights on, and they're all standing there in furs.

Nikki: Even Anthony with his 35 gallon hat.

Nikki: Every time it's just going to be more gallons.

Nikki: And they said, but they sure know how to apologize.

Nikki: And so they've all got their fur coats now, and apparently they're back in with the tates.

Salina: Well and Suzanne says, well, it's like I always say, there's integrity and then there's mink.

Nikki: Did you just wink at wink?

Salina: I did.

Salina: Feels like what Suzanne would do.

Salina: They channeled her.

Salina: Sorry.

Nikki: And with that wink, I think we're done with this act.

Salina: How dare you?

Salina: Stop winking at me, Niki.

Salina: So this most importantly, are you ready to rate the sucker?

Salina: Okay, you go first.

Salina: Well, okay.

Salina: So mine rating scale is prostitute composite sketches.

Salina: So I'm giving it two and a half out of five of those.

Salina: I thought some of the storyline was a bit confusing, especially in the beginning when they're introducing a bunch of characters that we haven't I i legitimately needed to watch it twice to catch because it's not just Sissy and Tate.

Salina: It's these people who are also in their orbit.

Nikki: Oh, right.

Nikki: Like the painting guy, the pickle guy.

Salina: His name was the crunchiest Pickle.

Salina: I don't think that's the slogan.

Nikki: It might be now.

Nikki: Maybe it should be someone from Flaccic is listening.

Nikki: And they're like, we are the crunchiest Pickle.

Nikki: So crunchy going on all our jars.

Salina: Absolutely.

Salina: And we'll help.

Nikki: I love pickles.

Salina: I legitimately do.

Salina: So 2.5 out of five prostitute composite sketches.

Salina: So in addition to it being just difficult to follow along in the beginning about who these people were, by the end, we sort of walked up to that line of absurdity, and then we kind of smacked it on the b***.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: I was like, is this, like, a terrible Southern stereotype that we need to talk about?

Salina: Just, like, gun toting just shooting inside the house Southerners?

Salina: I wasn't sure because I honestly didn't know what to make of it.

Salina: And I don't know if we should talk more about that or not.

Nikki: I think that's part of it, and I think we probably could talk about that, but I think the bigger part of it is these were just really wealthy people who didn't see consequences.

Nikki: So the guns were just a really easy way to make the point that they don't care what the collateral damage is.

Salina: I think the lesson is just always shoot inside your house.

Nikki: Is that the lesson, though?

Salina: No, it's not at all.

Nikki: Again, they didn't learn a lesson with that.

Nikki: They're just going to replace everything.

Salina: Yeah, they are not learning anything.

Nikki: But for everyone listening to this, everybody else, right.

Salina: Let's not shoot inside our house.

Nikki: Bad idea.

Salina: Yeah, we don't have 40 room mansions.

Salina: I mean, you may if you do.

Salina: And you're looking to share the love, the wealth.

Salina: Sure.

Salina: I know two gals.

Salina: They love designing women.

Salina: They talk to you for free.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: Just saying.

Salina: So it's also another circular plot.

Salina: We start with this one thing, bad clients.

Salina: And towards the middle we're like, we're going to change this.

Salina: We're going to get rid of these clients.

Salina: And then at the end, we wind up right back where we began, with the bad clients.

Nikki: What's the point?

Nikki: What's the point?

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: And while I did think this one was a bit of a misfire pun, I did like that we focused on a client and not like a boyfriend girlfriend situation.

Salina: And there are only boyfriends and girlfriends in this show, so I thought that was good.

Salina: It wasn't necessarily something that was all caught up on, like, a love triangle, because that just gets old, right?

Salina: So how about you?

Nikki: I'm going to go with 50 gallon hats again.

Nikki: I'm just going to increase the size of Anthony's hat every time.

Nikki: I'm not as generous as you.

Nikki: I'm going to give it two.

Nikki: You took the word right out of my mouth with the word absurd.

Nikki: I feel like we've talked so much about this very wealthy group, social group that Suzanne and even Julia a little bit seem to run with, and we've talked a lot about that.

Nikki: And so I feel like I could have gone for a line about old Southern money, some snottiness, dig into some of the social stereotypes that go with things.

Nikki: I feel like that would have made kind of a cool plotline versus this absurdly wealthy couple with minimal class and minimal standards.

Nikki: It just was a little boring to me.

Nikki: I feel I'm totally on board with you.

Nikki: At the beginning, I was like, Wait, who is Velasco?

Nikki: What are we talking about?

Nikki: And like you said, it took me till that third watch, honestly, before I realized, like, oh, this is a friend of the Tates.

Nikki: I get it now.

Nikki: I did think all of the various scenarios they found themselves in were really funny.

Nikki: Like Julia ending up on a plane going to Miami with him after her soapbox about the Tates and how strong she could be with them.

Nikki: I thought that was actually really funny and sort of humanizing for Julia.

Nikki: This reminder that she's all high and mighty about things, but she doesn't really fix things the way she thinks she does.

Nikki: Those were redeeming points.

Nikki: Anthony's brief appearance was very cute.

Nikki: I thought the ending where they had the coats on to your point, it's a circular plot or whatever, but it was cute the way they played it.

Nikki: That as much integrity as they have.

Nikki: They can still be bought a little bit with a nice fur.

Nikki: So it's kind of funny.

Nikki: But this was an episode that I'm not sorry to say goodbye to.

Salina: I do think the reveal was nice.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: Clever.

Salina: It was.

Salina: So that part, they hadn't done something like that that I recall.

Nikki: No.

Salina: Especially with, like, the lights off and everything.

Salina: I don't know, it felt like not just different for the show, but maybe even different for the time.

Salina: A bold choice, if you will.

Nikki: It was a bold choice.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: I kind of threw in here something that's a little different.

Nikki: Oh, no.

Salina: A list of all the gifts or offers of gifts.

Nikki: Oh, okay.

Salina: So Anthony's Hat buying 18 of Suzanne's paintings.

Salina: 18, I think.

Salina: Don't remember how I found that out.

Salina: I think I had to go look in the script.

Salina: The diamond bracelet and matching diamond earrings.

Salina: An overnight trip to the houseboat with a helicopter ride and a buffet, I.

Nikki: Was going to say.

Nikki: And the buffet and country music band.

Salina: Scarabring session for everyone with a psychic.

Salina: Connect them with peasant women in Scandinavia who will grow hair for hmm.

Salina: Interesting.

Salina: Julia's horse.

Salina: Still unconfirmed whether or not said horse is with Julia.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: There was an offer to take Julia to New Orleans for dinner.

Salina: That was something she turned down before she got her horse.

Salina: Then she goes onto the trip to Miami and we know of at least one dinner.

Salina: So there's a rolex.

Nikki: All she could eat.

Nikki: Crab legs.

Salina: That's right.

Salina: It's a lot perfume.

Salina: The perfume gets mentioned in a cut line in the last it just it was too much.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: I did do, like, a mini deep dive, but it's just not worth it.

Nikki: Got it.

Salina: So there was perfume.

Salina: Mustang convertible was offered to Charlene and then giving Charlene's number to Jennings.

Nikki: Oh, sounds like a gift of sorts.

Salina: So that's a lot of stuff to happen over the course of one episode.

Nikki: And it's telling me I don't have rich enough friends.

Salina: I'll work on it.

Salina: I'll work on it.

Salina: Did you have any other thing that was in a combination category for 80s, southern or unknown references?

Nikki: I have no combinations.

Salina: Okay, me neither.

Nikki: Perfect.

Salina: The end.

Salina: 80s things.

Nikki: The only thing I had to mention here was that Mustang, she specifically asked if it was an automatic versus a stick shift, which would have been a question you would have asked in the 80s, but you might not think to ask now.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Charlene looking in the newspaper to find out what's on TV.

Salina: That week.

Nikki: Oh, gosh, you know, I meant to write that one down.

Salina: You didn't have to.

Nikki: Perfect.

Salina: That was my only thing.

Nikki: Oh, yeah.

Salina: So it makes me feel like we're missing things, but I don't know, I.

Nikki: Think I can live with it.

Salina: I've got a theory.

Salina: I'm making it up right now.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: Because the tates are so wealthy, it flashes for by ten years of references.

Salina: All the references were, like there was, like, helicopters and houseboats.

Salina: I mean, it's just like, rich people have these things.

Salina: They always have these things.

Nikki: That's true.

Nikki: They're timeless.

Salina: My timeless helicopter will be here momentarily to pick me up on your helipad southern things.

Nikki: Southern things?

Nikki: Oh, just the waylon Jennings reference.

Salina: And I do not have that one on my list, but I do have a couple of other things.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: The nickname sissy.

Salina: Oh, I'm assuming that's her nickname.

Nikki: Well, I don't know.

Salina: Even if it's not a nickname, sissy still, I don't know.

Nikki: Is sissy SpaceX southern?

Nikki: I said that weird.

Nikki: Sissy SpaceX.

Salina: Well, it's a lot of s's.

Nikki: I'm sorry.

Salina: Like, a lot of s's.

Salina: I don't know.

Nikki: I think she might be.

Salina: Find out in episode 21, the ten gallon hat.

Nikki: Oh, right.

Salina: The cajun buffet.

Salina: I don't know why, but I don't actually say buffet every time you say it.

Nikki: I want to correct you, but I.

Salina: Just don't in this episode.

Salina: It feels like it should be buffet.

Nikki: Sissy space, I guess from Texas.

Salina: All right.

Salina: Texas in the south.

Salina: There's the country western band carousing all night.

Salina: That was something that Julia said.

Salina: It feels southern.

Salina: A nice haul in reference to the tennis bracelet.

Salina: Feels southern to me.

Salina: Always looking for those blasted checks.

Salina: Also feels southern arguing about a bunch of stuff that doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

Salina: You know what?

Nikki: Actually, I thought I had that written down.

Nikki: I meant to.

Salina: Yeah, definitely.

Salina: The other ones I'm like phil southern.

Salina: That is a southern south.

Nikki: I started to look into it, and I didn't find an obvious link to the south.

Salina: I did.

Salina: Southern living said it was okay, so I just went with what they said, okay.

Salina: And just randomly doing something else.

Salina: I ran across that.

Nikki: That might been one of those examples where I was like, this research seems harder than it's worth.

Nikki: That's my commitment to the people.

Salina: Well, I was doing something else when I ran across that southern living article.

Salina: So gun rooms, I don't know, because it also puts me in the mind of it is a rich people thing too.

Salina: Right.

Salina: Got a room?

Nikki: I imagine queen Elizabeth has a gun room in her balmoral estate.

Salina: Oh, most definitely.

Salina: And I'm thinking about the biltmore as well.

Salina: That's in the south.

Salina: That's in the south.

Salina: The queen's castle is in the south.

Nikki: Sure.

Salina: All these things, sure.

Salina: References you had to look up dog.

Nikki: Day afternoon, the movie that Charlene mentions at the beginning of the episode.

Nikki: That she was looking forward to watching on TV.

Nikki: I won't say too much about it, except that it was a movie about a 1972 robbery and hostage situation of a Chase Manhattan branch in Brooklyn.

Salina: Real story.

Nikki: A true story.

Nikki: Yes, it's a true story.

Nikki: And the part about the robbery being motivated by a gender reassignment surgery is at least partially true.

Nikki: It may not have been the sole motivation of the robbery, though.

Nikki: So true story.

Nikki: I think it was a that movie might have won an Oscar.

Salina: It did.

Salina: Best screenplay.

Nikki: Okay.

Nikki: I also had to look up PIA Zidora, who is the person that she says sissy's psychic convinced to quit the films or something.

Nikki: I don't know.

Nikki: I looked it up.

Nikki: She was an actress that quit making movies.

Salina: Can I tack on while we're there?

Nikki: Sure.

Salina: Okay, so, yes.

Salina: I'm not so sure.

Salina: Based on what I read, she did quit because I don't think it was going well for her.

Salina: There's also a big scandal that happens around a film that she did.

Salina: It didn't do very well.

Nikki: She get canceled?

Salina: No, but she switched to singing after this movie or after not so great a run in a few different movies.

Salina: But there was one where she received national attention because it was thought that her husband basically bought her a Golden Globe win.

Salina: Yeah, I don't know what the that's just what the articles were.

Salina: Um, but it did kind of like I think it left a sour taste in people's mouths about her.

Salina: So sorry, just thought I'd tack that on.

Nikki: Did you look up Knottsbury Farms?

Nikki: Specifically the part about a flea exhibit?

Salina: I've looked up Knottsbury Farm, but not the flea exhibit.

Salina: Is it true?

Nikki: Well, I knew what Knottsbury Farms was.

Nikki: I didn't know about the flea exhibit, and I couldn't find any proof of it, so I was hoping you could because that was my other reference that I had to look up.

Salina: No, the only thing I did is sometimes I just think maybe we don't have to look them up, but sometimes I wonder if some references are lost on people.

Salina: So I just looked up that.

Salina: It's a 57 acre theme park in California.

Salina: My dad loves Knottsbury Farm.

Salina: But yeah, no, I have nothing about the fleas.

Nikki: Well, that was my last unknown.

Salina: Looked up.

Salina: I mentioned this before we closed out our last episode review, which was seams seams of a marriage is what this is called.

Nikki: Right.

Salina: But there was a movie.

Salina: I'm sorry, it's not a movie, it's a miniseries.

Salina: And it was scenes of a marriage.

Salina: S-C-E-N-E-S.

Salina: So it came out in 73.

Salina: It was Swedish, actually.

Salina: And it chronicles the many years of love and turmoil that bind two people through matrimony infidelity divorce and subsequent partners.

Salina: So you can kind of see where some of the play on words is coming from there.

Salina: I also looked up Scarab ring.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: You mentioned earlier that scarab is a representation or image of a beetle, much used among ancient Egyptians as a symbol sill amulet or the like.

Salina: And the scarab ring is a style of ring featuring a small sculpture of the scarab as the bezel.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: And it was popular in the Egyptian Middle Kingdom and later.

Salina: And the scarab represents the god RA.

Nikki: I couldn't believe that's really what she gave her.

Nikki: So I found all that and I was like, that can't be the same thing.

Salina: Oh, you thought it was something different?

Nikki: I thought it was something different.

Nikki: I'm imagining a giant turquoise stone.

Nikki: I don't know why.

Salina: Was that before or after you saw what she looked like?

Salina: I'm wondering if that had influence on it.

Nikki: It was before I saw her.

Salina: I could see somebody getting all jazzy about something that has everything.

Salina: Why wouldn't they have something from the Egyptian period, too?

Nikki: But it just was dropped so casually in conversation.

Nikki: And the fact that you just had to define that so specifically.

Nikki: And Charlene was like, you got a diamond bracelet, I got a scarab ring.

Nikki: It was just OD to me that everybody like, oh, yes, indeed.

Nikki: A beetle bezel from the Egyptian period.

Salina: I have full right here.

Salina: Okay, I take it.

Salina: Take that.

Salina: Well, that was all of my that's it.

Salina: References.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: So we're onward and upward to episode 21.

Salina: Two episodes left.

Nikki: 21 grand slam.

Nikki: Thank you, ma'am.

Nikki: Which I just think is a clever name.

Salina: It is.

Nikki: So, as always, we'd love everyone to follow along with us and engage.

Nikki: We're on Instagram and Facebook at Sweettv.

Nikki: Email for you, Auntie Teresa.


Nikki: You can find all of our we're writing some very funny blogs.

Nikki: We have some very funny blog posts to accompany each one of these episodes.

Nikki: And you can find them on our website along with our references.

Salina: They're three sentences people.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: No, they're not.

Nikki: Super long.

Nikki: I'm getting indignant that more people aren't looking at our website.

Nikki: It's

Salina: If we can't talk you into falling along by cracky, we're going to berate you into it.

Nikki: Yes, indeed.

Nikki: That's where you can find all of our references.

Nikki: And this week, I mentioned really early in the episode that this week's Extra Sugar is going to dig into an Anthony reference.

Nikki: And Salina has put together a really nice piece about the achievements of the iconic and sometimes controversial entertainer Bill Bojangles Robinson.

Nikki: Mr.

Nikki: Bojangles.

Nikki: And so when you go to our WW, you will find all of the references for that Extra Sugar along with all of our previous episodes.

Salina: You know what that means?

Nikki: What's it mean?

Nikki: Salina?

Salina: We'll see you around the bin by.

Nikki: Did you take that armoire out the tape?

Speaker C: I certainly did.

Salina: Isn't that Shelby tape, Cat?

Speaker C: It certainly is.

Speaker C: He said to me this morning, tell me, Anthony, do you like watermelon?

Speaker C: So I'm thinking this is not a good question.

Speaker C: I mean, I'm talking to a guy who has got four lawn jockeys on his front porch and he's asking me if I like watermelon, and suddenly I see a truckload of watermelon in my future.

Speaker C: So I say, no, Mr.

Speaker C: Tate, I don't much care for watermelon, but I could use a new pair of tap shoes.

Speaker C: That cracks him up.

Speaker C: So he takes this hat right off his head and puts it on mine.

Speaker C: Dude has got a big head, too.

Salina: Welcome to this edition of Extra Sugar.

Salina: Today's segment was inspired by a question we both had.

Salina: Nikki.

Salina: Was Anthony referring to Bill Bojangles Robinson in this clip?

Nikki: What was he?

Salina: Well, we don't know.

Salina: First, for those who do not know other things, bill Robinson was an entertainer who remains to this day one of the best, if not the best, tap dancers to ever live.

Salina: He sort of changed the game at the time.

Salina: Speaking of not knowing things, I think we should probably be very clear with listeners that we do not know for sure that Anthony was referencing this very infamous entertainer.

Salina: But if he was, if he was, it was a pretty fantastically clever comeback to Shelby Tate's knowingly or unknowingly insulting question.

Salina: Either way, once we realized we were both doing our own individual deep dives on the man, his career, his legacy, we thought, why not take it here to the people and talk about this man who became a living legend in his own time and a legend today as well.

Nikki: Can I say, Salina, that in asking this question of was he referring to Mr.

Nikki: Bojangles?

Nikki: I've told you this separately, but I don't know anything really about tap dancing.

Nikki: And as soon as Anthony made a joke about tap dancing, in light of all the comments that Mr.

Nikki: Tate had been making before, my mind went to Mr.

Nikki: Bojangles.

Nikki: I cannot explain to you how it went there because I really don't remember knowing anything about this man.

Nikki: So I think it's a fair leap to make that that's where my mind went.

Nikki: Your mind went there, so I think it's a fair leap to make.

Nikki: But you're right, we don't know for sure.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Also, isn't that kind of interesting that someone can be so woven into the fabric of society favorite term that even though you couldn't quote a bunch of stats about them or anything, it's still the first thing that popped to your mind?

Salina: And also, I think I read that for a long time.

Salina: And even today, I think Bojangles is still just referenced in terms of a tap dancer, right.

Salina: And sometimes just as someone who is dancing and maybe filling themselves, I don't know.

Salina: So I thought we could take we could be here all night because he just had such a long and illustrious career.

Salina: But I'm going to try and hit the highlights, I think.

Salina: But first I wanted to say that background wise, we do actually have ourselves a Southern connection if you guys don't know, we're a Southern podcast.

Salina: So Bill Robinson was from the south.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: And he was born in Richmond, Virginia on May 25, 1878.

Salina: May 25.

Salina: Keep that date in mind because it's going to come back up.

Salina: So his parents died when he was five or six.

Salina: Some accounts say he was raised by his grandmother.

Salina: Other accounts indicate he raised himself on the streets of Richmond.

Salina: I will go ahead and say this for every number that I give and every number we talk about from here moving forward, the accounts seem kind of split.

Salina: He's always going to be five or 612 or 13.

Salina: And a lot of that has to do, I think, with the times.

Nikki: Right.

Salina: Again, 1878, that was a while ago.

Salina: So it's not everything is cataloged quite the way that it is today.

Salina: Just a lot of varied accounts.

Salina: So let's talk about those career highlights.

Salina: But actually, first let's provide some context to what it means to have been born in 1878.

Salina: It's 13 years after the Civil War.

Salina: He's in the south, and he is in the former Confederate capital, and his.

Nikki: Grandmother was formerly enslaved.

Nikki: I read that somewhere.

Salina: Yes.

Nikki: So I feel like that's just important to know, too.

Salina: Yeah, well, and that's how close we are to the Civil War.

Nikki: Right.

Salina: And what came before the Civil War.

Salina: So not only does he not have a support system, but these are just incredibly tumultuous times.

Salina: So he starts dancing for a living when he was only five or six.

Salina: And he's doing it for money and he's picking up on I think they said there was people who used to come through before, like a big show or something, and they would dance in the streets.

Salina: And he started mimicking them and picking up some of their moves.

Salina: And that was kind of the start of it.

Salina: But he does leave the south, and he joins a traveling company at twelve or 13, and he becomes part of a successful vaudeville act with another comedian for several years.

Salina: I think this happened around 22.

Salina: This goes on for twelve or 14 years, and then they eventually split up.

Salina: He continues to do more of like a solo thing.

Salina: We can talk more about that in a minute.

Salina: And then he has a wildly successful Broadway debut in 1928, when he starred in the musical review Blackbirds of 1928.

Salina: This is, I believe, an all African American cast, and it features his famous stair dance.

Salina: Here's what I'll say.

Salina: We'll link to something so folks can see it, but it is really impressive.

Salina: He's tap dancing up and down the stairs.

Salina: He does a thing where he kind of kicks the risers.

Salina: It's definitely entertaining.

Salina: So here's what really stood out to me about this Broadway debut, 1928.

Salina: He is almost 50 years old.

Nikki: Wow.

Salina: I mean, that seems like almost unbelievable today.

Salina: And I think you've got a better shot of that happening today maybe than any other time before.

Salina: So I think that just I'm not even sure what that speaks to.

Salina: I think it speaks to his talent, his vigor.

Salina: When I'm 50, I do not want to be tap dancing.

Salina: I'm going to be sitting.

Salina: It probably speaks a little bit to the environment around him and how hard he had to work to get where he was.

Nikki: I think that's what it says.

Nikki: Could you imagine?

Nikki: He started at five or six and he's almost you said 50, so that's 45 years of hustle.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: And like hard manual hustle right now.

Salina: He'S doing well in between this time from everything I've read and digested.

Salina: But in addition to almost being 50, around this time, he becomes the highest paid black entertainer in the world.

Salina: He also moves to Harlem, and it puts him at the center of the Harlem Renaissance.

Salina: You guys don't know about the Harlem Renaissance?

Salina: Look it up.

Salina: It's pretty cool.

Salina: But that will be a whole nother extra sugar.

Salina: He starred in 14 movies.

Salina: Many of them were musicals, and four of them were with the child star Shirley Temple.

Salina: So have you ever watched any of Shirley Temple's movies?

Salina: Why do I even I know you.

Nikki: Asked me about Pretty Woman, and now you're going to ask me if I've seen Shirley Temple?

Nikki: Are you serious?

Nikki: Get it together, Salina.

Salina: So I've only seen one of those four that I can recall, which was Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm.

Salina: I've seen that movie dozens of times.

Salina: I've seen many Shirley Temple movies dozens of times.

Nikki: You've seen Shirley Temple movies once, twice, dozens of times.

Salina: Dozens of times.

Salina: I grew up on them.

Nikki: That is wild.

Salina: I'm 105.

Salina: So that was something my mom introduced me to.

Salina: She thought it was very important that I knew who Shirley Temple was and the impact that she, my mom, used to know.

Salina: So she had certain things she wanted me to know and understand about entertainment over time.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: She also loved Shirley Temple when she.

Nikki: Was a little girl.

Salina: She was too young for Shirley Temple.

Salina: Just to be clear, in real life, they remained close friends, even though he was in his fifty s and she was six.

Salina: I think all of our minds go, but it was actually very sweet, and I think he taught her a lot.

Salina: And I ran across a bunch of accounts where she basically said it was nice to have someone who didn't treat me like a baby, but treated me like a person.

Nikki: That's nice.

Salina: And I'm sure she spent a lot of time feeling like a commodity herself.

Salina: I mean, one thing that they definitely held in common was when Hollywood was.

Nikki: Done with them, they were done.

Salina: They kicked him right to the curb, both of them.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: So while he was incredibly famous, even in those times, he wasn't able to break out of these stereotypical roles that were written for African.

Salina: American actors at the time.

Salina: So when I say stereotypical, I mean, like, gentile servants tended to glamorize situations that were far from glamorous.

Salina: It made things seem okay when things weren't really okay.

Salina: But he never stopped moving.

Salina: Even after his time in Hollywood, he never stopped dancing.

Salina: And he continued to work, including a very successful return to stage in 1939 in The Hot Mercado.

Salina: This is where have you seen that, Nikki?

Nikki: Yes, in fact, I have.

Salina: But this was I mean, it did really well.

Salina: I think it actually premiered at the New York's World Fair that year.

Salina: So the World's Fair at that time was just, like, the biggest event.

Salina: So he also continued to work a ton of charity events.

Salina: He was a very, very giving man.

Salina: He died in 1949 at the age of 71.

Salina: It's not long after suffering a massive heart attack.

Salina: And he died penniless.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Man so you ran across that as well.

Salina: I feel like that's, like, the first thing you read about him.

Salina: Almost.

Nikki: Yeah, it's one of the first, for sure.

Nikki: And it's a tragic ending for anyone who's been that successful in their life.

Nikki: But the flip of it is, one of the big reasons he was penniless is because he was so philanthropic and because he was so giving that he continually donated what he had to better black lives.

Salina: Yes.

Salina: And so that is a big part of it.

Salina: I do want to say he also had a penchant for gambling.

Nikki: Well, yeah, everybody in the had a penchant for gambling.

Salina: Did they?

Salina: But I do think that what is foremost attributed to him losing a lot of his money were the charities, to your point.

Salina: So I don't want to take that away.

Salina: I also just don't want to come off like, being disingenuous.

Salina: So it was the largest funeral in New York City's history.

Salina: Here's one of those number things again.

Salina: There is reportedly anywhere from 100,000 to more than a million people.

Salina: Either way, it's still the largest one in New York at the time.

Nikki: It was a large funeral.

Salina: Yes.

Salina: People came from all over the world, and friends and colleagues actually raised money for the funeral.

Salina: Ed Sullivan coordinated the that's crazy.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Oh, but you know Ed.

Nikki: But you know Ed.

Nikki: I know all of these names.

Nikki: My mind went to Mr.

Nikki: Bojangles.

Nikki: I know who Shirley Temple is.

Nikki: I'm not living under a rock.

Nikki: I just don't watch these things.

Nikki: I hate musicals.

Salina: Well, I'm actually really fearful that people younger than you and I won't know who Ed Sullivan is.

Nikki: You got to have good parents.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: Come on, parents, step it up.

Salina: He was a host on television, among other things.

Salina: So I think that is where The Beatles premiered for the very first time in 1964.

Salina: Look them up, kids.

Salina: Look them up.

Nikki: To have Ed Sullivan doing your funeral in what would this have been?

Nikki: 19 49 49.

Nikki: That's pretty cool.

Nikki: Not as big, I think, as he became later.

Nikki: But that's pretty cool.

Salina: Well, I started crying when they mentioned his honorary pallbearers.

Salina: Did you run across any of them?

Nikki: I didn't.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: So jackie robinson joe DiMaggio bob hope duke ellington joe lewis and irving berlin.

Nikki: What a diverse group.

Salina: I mean, definitely an interest.

Salina: Quite the little not little, quite the band of artists, of talent, people who are breaking through barriers, right.

Salina: Legends in their own right.

Salina: And so, I mean, I'm just sitting there watching this, an e biography from, like, 1997.

Salina: I'm like weeping.

Salina: It's really good.

Salina: We will link to that, too, in case you want to check it out for yourself.

Salina: Going to move on to legacy and achievements.

Salina: His legacy, especially in film, is somewhat controversial due to those stereotypical roles that we were talking about earlier.

Salina: And it sounds like some of these perpetuated stereotypes that were considered especially and understandably problematic during the civil rights era.

Salina: And so, based on everything I've read, this is likely because some of the characters he portrayed made it seem like the status quo was just fine, and that could deter much needed change.

Salina: So this is its own segment, but there was a lot of really good articles on it that really dive into that nuance.

Salina: And we'll link to those so that people can look into that because it is kind of a mixed bag on how people felt about him.

Salina: But context is important for this time, too.

Salina: And these stereotypical roles that he took on his career took place during one of the most racially divided periods in this country.

Salina: He endured Jim Crow, the Depression, a very active KKK, and movies like Birth of a Nation.

Nikki: Yeah, speaking about his legacy is really I feel like I have to caveat my opinion so much because I'm white.

Nikki: I don't watch Shirley Temple movies.

Nikki: What does my opinion matter?

Nikki: But I feel like all of those things going on around him, the fact that he broke so many entertainment barriers as a black performer he performed with was I found something that said he was, like, the first black man to hold a white girl's hand on TV or something.

Salina: Shirley's.

Nikki: Shirley, right.

Nikki: Shirley's.

Nikki: He was the first performer to headline a mixed race show on Broadway.

Nikki: He had all of these milestones.

Nikki: He was perpetually on TV screens, and I would imagine largely white family TV screens, but also there were a lot of African Americans and young black kids who saw him performing on TV and doing all these amazing things.

Nikki: So while I understand the stereotypical stuff is challenging to reconcile, you have to start somewhere.

Nikki: And so if black performers were starting from scratch, how do you get yourself into the good graces of white people who were controlling the entertainment industry?

Nikki: You make them feel comfortable, which he did.

Nikki: And he made himself very comfortable to white audiences, which then gave him a stepping stone for breaking some of these other barriers.

Salina: Well, you're exactly where I want to be.

Salina: And you've brought up some really good barriers that he broke through.

Salina: Before I share any of these other barriers, it is important to understand.

Salina: Again, I mean, I know we've said, like, it was a different time.

Salina: It was a different time.

Salina: But you need to understand.

Salina: I need to understand.

Salina: We all have to understand how vastly different this country was in his time.

Salina: It was so different.

Salina: I mean, we are in the middle of segregation, and so some of these things that he did, they were working to combat racism, even though today it's like a duh.

Nikki: Right?

Salina: Okay, so he was the first solo African American artist to play vaudeville for white audiences.

Salina: At the time, there was actually a rule against that.

Salina: You had to have two African Americans on stage, and he broke through that.

Salina: I mean, the reasoning is just racist and horrible.

Nikki: The only explanation for it, because it's also not logical.

Salina: What I read was you needed at least two individuals to make it worth a white audience's time.

Nikki: Right.

Nikki: That black entertainers weren't entertaining enough on their own.

Salina: What's the bottom line for anyone who's listening to know that?

Salina: I don't even want to utter those words, but that's what it was.

Salina: And I think sometimes just to frame that so you understand why him being a solo artist at that time was such a big deal.

Salina: Blackface not just for white artists at the time, or entertainers.

Salina: This was new to me, actually.

Salina: I did not realize that African Americans were also wearing blackface at the time.

Salina: He did not do that.

Salina: So that was an important barrier that he was able to break through.

Salina: He danced with white actors.

Salina: You mentioned the handholding.

Salina: He and Shirley Temple were the first interracial couple to dance on screen.

Salina: Again, I know that may not sound like much today, but then it was considered highly taboo.

Salina: Here's some stuff that happened off the screen.

Salina: With the help of his second wife, he founded the Negro Actors Guild of America, which advocated for the rights of African American performers.

Salina: His generosity to fellow Harlem residents, especially during the Depression, is also said to be legendary.

Salina: Again, going back to that charity work, a lot of this stemmed from wanting to protect others from what he endured on the streets.

Salina: As a child, he was endlessly doing performances for charity.

Salina: I think I read somewhere that he did more than 300 shows just in his final years.

Salina: That's amazing.

Salina: He was also declared the honorary mayor of Harlem for all he did for the city.

Nikki: That's cool.

Salina: In 1936, he co founded the New York Black Yankees team that was based in Harlem, and the team was a part of the Negro National League until 1948, when Major League Baseball first integrated.

Salina: Racially and not insubstantial, he had an ability to run backwards.

Salina: This is more just like fun facts, guys.

Salina: Now, this was really interesting because this is another point that was sort of all over the map, but this is the one that I read the most amount of time.

Salina: So we're just going to do statistically speaking, maybe this is the one that's accurate.

Salina: It's said that he set a world's record of 8.2 seconds for the 75 yard backward dash.

Nikki: You've given me a new mission in.

Salina: Life to see if that's true or to do it yourself.

Nikki: To do it myself.

Nikki: I don't care if it's true.

Salina: What are facts, honestly?

Salina: He celebrated his 61st birthday publicly by dancing down 61 blocks of Broadway.

Nikki: I did read that.

Salina: 161.

Nikki: That's a lot of blocks.

Salina: Oh, my goodness.

Salina: I would probably pass out trying to do that right now.

Salina: And it sounds like we do have one talent in common that I'm pretty excited about.

Salina: It's not dancing, it's not singing, nor acting.

Salina: But he reportedly was able to consume ice cream by the court.

Salina: Me too, Bo.

Salina: Me too.

Salina: And finally, I said that the May 25 day his birthday would come back around as part of his enduring legacy.

Salina: In 1989, a joint congressional resolution established National Tap Dance Day on May 25, which is his birthday.

Salina: That's cool.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: We've talked before about how you sometimes have to look back to understand where we are now.

Salina: And I think that's one of the things that made this something that even though we're not sure about the reference right.

Nikki: It's worth digging into.

Salina: You got it.

Salina: And no one is saying again, it's like we've said with things on Designing Women that we've seen, and we're like, I've got a headache now.

Salina: We still have more work to do in the world to make this world a better place, to make it better for the people who live here.

Salina: Souped nuts.

Salina: But, man, looking at Bill Robinson and what he achieved in spite of the messed up world around him, it makes me feel hopeful.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: And it's really an important reminder of how detrimental stereotypes can be and how much we owe the people who kick the doors in so that others can walk through.

Salina: And so that just makes me happy that occasionally we get the chance to look at things that happen in stereotypes of women or Southerners or whatever it is voodoo we've done in the past, whatever we're seeing on Designing Women, and we get a chance to go, wait, but look over here at this other stuff.

Nikki: Right?

Nikki: You don't have the full story, right?

Nikki: Can I tell one cool story about him?

Salina: Oh, my goodness.

Salina: Please.

Nikki: So one of the stories I read again, accounts were mixed, but as the legend has it, he was in a restaurant one time eating dinner, and a white patron complained that he was being served in the same restaurant at the same time as them, some such nonsense.

Nikki: And the server or the manager came over and said, we're going to need you to leave.

Nikki: This white patron is complaining.

Nikki: And he said, Can I borrow $5?

Nikki: And they were like, sure, why?

Nikki: So they hand him a $5 bill.

Nikki: He takes a couple of fives out of his wallet, mixes them up together, holds them out and says, now tell me which one belongs to a black man?

Nikki: And of course, they couldn't because there is no difference.

Nikki: And they let him stay.

Nikki: And he ended up having dinner that night.

Nikki: And I feel like that's some big Julia Sugar Baker energy to take someone who's coming at you inappropriately and put them in their place pretty quickly.

Nikki: And I think, again, we've talked a lot in this segment about context and about the time he was living in.

Nikki: That takes guts to do that and to stand up against racism in that way.

Nikki: And I think it's a mixed legacy like we've talked about, but that tells me a lot about who he was and what he stood for.

Salina: It's a good story.

Salina: Thank you.

Nikki: I like for sharing that.

Salina: Sure.

Salina: All right.

Salina: Well, everybody, thank you for tuning in to this week's Extra Sugar.


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