S8E1 - Golden Girls: Welcome to Miami: Meet the Golden Girls

We’re back! Minus a very exciting special episode over the summer, we took a much needed, extended break from the pod. We also got in the lab, with a pen and a pad – and then Nikki came up with something REALLY good. Make sure to listen to find out what we’re up to long term, but short term, as we unsubtly teased earlier in the year: this is our golden era. It’s Golden Girls time.

So join us as Salina meets the gals (Nikki is already a cheesecake bestie), and then come back Thursday for an episode all about the representation of aging women in Hollywood. 

Wanna follow along with the exact episodes we’re watching? Great! Check out the series pilot and season 1 finale on Hulu. 

Here's more on the backstory of “The Golden Girls.” 

And, as always, thank you for being a friend!

Or listen on Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music.

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Transcript

This was our longest hiatus to date, with the exception of the summer

Salina: Hey, Nikki.

Nikki: Hey, you.

Salina: Hey. Yo, Yo. We left the south, and you went just straight to the northeast.

Nikki: Hey, you, Skies. What's doing? I don't know.

Salina: I just need another regional podcast.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: Yeah, people would totally, tune in for that.

Nikki: That's what. You know what we should do is. Oh, I can't give away all my secrets.

Salina: Oh, okay. We'll hold on to it.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: Okay. well, welcome back. Welcome back to you. Thanks. Welcome back to me. Welcome back, everyone. Welcome back, y'. All. Don't worry, we won't drop y'. All. It's very inclusive like it is. Goodness. This was our longest hiatus to date, with the exception of our special episode back over the summer. You and I have not recorded an episode since. Well, let me ask. Do you know how long it's been?

Nikki: 123 days, 4 hours, 16 minutes, 75 hours.

Salina: You can see that it's not my favorite musical. It's because I've never seen it, so.

Nikki: That would make it hard for it to be your favorites.

Salina: Yes, and I probably shouldn't admit that, but here we are.

Nikki: You know, I'm not a musical girly, so not hurting my feelings.

Salina: Okay, well, someone might get upset. They'll be okay. I believe in you. Anyways, it's been since April, so. Six months.

Nikki: How many days?

Salina: Don't make me do that.

Nikki: M. I'm gonna translate that later and just see how close I was.

Salina: Oh, okay, great.

Salina: I believe in you.

Nikki: I won't. I'm gonna forget, and I'll never do it. It does.

Salina: It did sound fun, though.

Nikki: So.

Salina: Since April. Since April.

Nikki: What's wrong with you?

Salina: I been busy. I got two kids. Oh, that's not me.

If you came here looking for Designing Women, I have good news

well, so I do want to say, if you came here looking for Designing Women, I have good news. The first seven seasons of our show are dedicated to the seven seasons of Designing Women. There is, You're welcome, and thank you. There is an episode by episode breakdown for the first five seasons. There are character breakdown for season six and seven. We did the most. We did Delta Burke spin off Women of the House. So you can find that there in the content. You can find the 2000. I said that really weird content. you can find the 2003 Lifetime reunion special. There are three book club episodes. One for Delta Book Burke's book. You try and say that three times. One for Dixie Carter's book. And then we also read Dixie Carter's daughter Mary, Dixie Carter's newest book in interviewed her over the summer. That was our special episode back In July. So what I'm trying to tell y' all is Designing Women content abounds. However, that's gone. You know, that's gone.

Nikki: It's passed.

Salina: We did that.

Nikki: Time to move on, guys.

Salina: That's right. So we're moving on from the south. Except for physically of you, Nikki's like, this is your cup. This is coffee. For those of you who specifically did join us, like, today for Designing Women, you know, we still have.

Nikki: No, I just read the title again.

Salina: Did you see it? So we do have something that we think might entice you anyway. Something golden to start. And then who knows what sacred spaces, what hallowed halls we might visit next. But you know what? Nikki wrote the most beautiful, most elegant description for the transition of our podcast. So it would honestly be a disservice for me to not read those words. So I'm gonna read it to you now. You, like this, Nikki?

Nikki: Surprise us all.

Salina: You like this?

Nikki: I think I wrote this close to six months ago, right as we were finishing the last season.

Salina: We've been working on these first two episodes for six months. That second episode is gonna be hard.

Nikki: Not really, because I truly took a break and I didn't come back to it until August, probably.

Salina: That sounds right for me too.

Nikki: It was good. I think it's good.

Salina: Yeah. there's still, like, a really long time to work on these episodes, so episode three is gonna be a whirlwind. anyways, so here. Getting to it. You ready?

Nikki: Maybe.

Salina: Am I? I hope so.

Sweet tea and TV follows unforgettable women of television wherever they lead

Nikki: Okay, here we go.

Salina: Sweet tea and TV started inside the walls of Sugar Baker and Associates, where we spent seven seasons steeping in the sass, smarts and Southern charm of Designing Women. These days, we're following the unforgettable women of television wherever they lead, tracing their stories through pop culture that made us, inspired by Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon, a quintessential millennial pop culture touchstone. And we're using the Six Degrees of Separation concept as our roadmap through television history. We're connecting the dots between iconic characters, the actors who played them, the themes they explored, and the cultural impact they left behind. It's how we jump from the Southern sass of Designing Women to the sun soaked friendships of the Golden Girls. Maybe one day we'll land in the heart of Sex and the City or find ourselves sipping coffee in another millennial touchstone. Gilmore Girls. Each show leads us to the next, sometimes through a shared actress or creator, sometimes through a kindred theme or era, creating a continuous thread of unforgettable women and meaningful storytelling. We're not just connecting characters, we're stitching together a patchwork of voices that speak to where we're from, who we've become, and how women have always carried the story forward. From big haired soapbox speeches to late night cheesecake chats, we're here to celebrate the characters who made us laugh, think, and feel right at home. So pour a glass of sweet TV grab. I got so far. So pour a glass of sweet tea, grab the remote, and join us as we explore how TV reflects our culture, questions our norms, and reminds us why great storytelling is. And great women never go out of style. And every time I read that, I tear up a little bit, get chills. And I'm getting excited to be a part of this podcast all over again. So thank you, Nikki, for taking my wacky ideas for this season and making them something coherent. Doing what you always do. Translating Salina.

Nikki: I call it Salina Ease. and not very many of us speak it, actually. Yeah, I thought the six degrees of separation idea was so clever, and I'm so excited to get to bounce around a little bit. I've been feeling, preparing for these episodes a little sad we're not gonna spend more time with the Golden Girls the way we did Designing Women. But I think that's largely because this is my show. Like, this is me. but it's been really fun to get to bounce through the episodes and not get weighted down quite so much by all the detail, because I think that you, you, you miss the plot a little bit if you get so down in the weeds on things. Like, did the, set change between one episode to the next? You know what I mean?

Salina: I do. And I think, you know, we're learning. and I, you know, I think depending on where things go and how things move along, we, we have the right to make additional tweaks. We have the right to party. We have the right to do whatever we want to do. Okay. so. But I do want to say we.

Nikki: Do have to fight for our right.

Salina: To party or just fight. Whatever.

Nikki: Yes.

Salina: We're just out here fist fighting in the street.

Nikki: I'm ready for a fight. Most days, I'm ready for a fight.

Salina: 2025 babies. Let's do it. So here's what you can expect this season. Nikki. Pay attention. Okay, let's see if we're on the same page. Find out. So, for Golden Girls, with the exception of today, each episode will dive into one of our four iconic ladies and, who still Keep viewers coming back 40 years on. And in this episode, we're gonna table set, you know, for these discussions. It'll be a more general conversation about the show. Be a hell of a time to realize that one of us prepared the same way.

Nikki: But whatever.

Salina: Whatever.

The next four episodes are focused on characters, but then we're gonna back up

and, with that in mind, Nikki, you want to get us started? You want to tell us about these gals and why this show matters?

Nikki: I do. One addendum. Okay. So, the next four episodes are focused on characters, but then we're gonna back up and focus on themes, for the last two episodes.

Salina: That's right.

Nikki: So we're gonna have a chance to sort of bounce into different topics that they cover and cover some of those episodes that might not have been as character driven. So that'll be fun.

Salina: That's right. This is not just me realizing that I've known it the whole time.

Nikki: You have. I know I have to add something here, Salina. I have to bring something to the table.

Salina: You do every day.

Nikki: thank you.

The Golden Girls ran from 1985 to 1992 on NBC

So let's talk about what is Golden Girls and why did it matter? Why does it matter? It matters to me every day of my life. so the Golden Girls was NBC's gift to primetime from 1985 to 1992. Seven seasons, 180 episodes, and an endless supply of cheesecake. It was created by Susan Harris, who was also behind Soap and Empty Nest. I'm reading this now and trying to remember if I googled soap. It's not soap Dish.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: but also Empty Nest, which was a spin off of Golden Girls. Also love that show. the show was a multi camera sitcom filmed in front of a live studio audience. I think you pointed out, Salina, that it first aired in September 1985. So we're recording this right now in October 2025, almost 40 years to the exact date that it aired.

Salina: That's right.

Nikki: I'm pretty sure it aired on landon's birthday in 1985 also.

Salina: Oh, funny.

Nikki: Isn't that funny?

Salina: It is funny.

Nikki: So the premise is simple. Four women of a certain age sharing a Miami home. But each one brought a distinct flavor to the mix. We've got Dorothy Spornak, who's played by Bea Arthur. She's a sarcastic school teacher with a spine of steel and a heart of gold that she would never admit to. Rose Nyland is Betty White. She's sweet, naive, and armed with endless tales from her hometown of St. Olaf. Population? mostly cows and a little bit of confusion. Blanche Devereaux is played by Rue McClanahan. She's the unapologetic Southern belle whose bedroom deserves its own spin off. And then we have Sophia Petrillo. Estelle Getty played her. She's Dorothy's mother. She's pint sized, razor sharp, and she has savage one liners. That's what, that's why I think you're a smidgen. A little dash of Sophia.

Salina: Because she's short?

Nikki: I didn't say that. I think someone is projecting a little bit.

The idea for Golden Girls came up during the filming of a 1984 special

so I thought the backstory for how the show came to be was pretty interesting. According to the Golden Girls wiki, which I'll link to in the show notes, the idea for the show popped up during the filming of a television special in 1984. So it was this thing that was put together to introduce the NBC schedule for 1984 to 1985. And it featured Selma diamond of Night Court Court and Doris Roberts, who at the time was on Remington Steel. I think Doris Roberts ended up being on Everybody Loves Raymond. She was his mom.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: She's, been on tons of things. but that's, I think, what I tether her to. so this was a skit promoting the upcoming show Miami Vice as Miami Nice, a parody about old people living in Miami. A, senior vice president in the audience really liked the concept and pursued it, and that's how Golden Girls came to be. Isn't that crazy?

Salina: That's a, it's a cool backstory. It will feature somewhat in this week's Extra Sugar.

Nikki: Oh, perfect.

Salina: Yeah, but you teed it up because I didn't know. I. I don't. I don't go into that part. I go into the next part.

Nikki: So it's. It's like we almost planned this, but we didn't.

Salina: So good luck, y'. All.

Nikki: Let's figure it out.

27.2 million viewers watched the series finale in 2018

so audiences love the final result, and so did the critics. The series ranked among the Nielsen ratings top 10 for six of its seven seasons. 27.2 million viewers watched the series finale. And as of 2018, the finale ranked at number 17 of most watched finales.

Salina: Wow.

Nikki: during its time on air, the golden girls racked up 11 Emmys, 68 nominations, four Golden Globes. It's one of only four TV shows ever in which all four leads received an Emmy. Do you know the other shows?

Salina: I don't, Gosh, I won't do the disservice of me trying to sit here and think about it.

Nikki: Well, when I say them, tell me if you would have said one of these.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: All in the Family.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: Will and Grace.

Salina: okay.

Nikki: And Schitt's Creek.

Salina: Oh, that's lovely. Well, I think Schitt's Creek definitely deserves it.

Nikki: That's, such a good show. That is just such a good show.

Salina: Oh, and Will and Grace, also very good show. I mean, all in the Family is also good. I think it's just a little hard to watch a 70s show sometimes now.

Nikki: Sometimes it is. And actually, I think when we do our Br Thing episode, maybe this will come up a little bit. But I've been watching clips of Maude, and I'm thinking, like, dang, I really missed the boat on that. I should have watched that. Because that seems like a show I might enjoy.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: But to your point, I digress. the Golden Girls became a syndication powerhouse around the world. It's also a queer touchstone. from drag tributes to brunch. Bingo. because of its campy humor, fearless tackling of taboo topics, and sort of the found family dynamic, which tends to resonate, in a lot of communities, but especially in the queer community.

Salina: Community.

Nikki: And then over the years, the show has been referenced everywhere from Sex and the City to Community. It's been reimagined in stage parodies, and it's been endlessly memed. It turns out that the combination of sass, sincerity, and cheesecake is timeless. So that's Golden Girls, and that's why it matters.

Salina: Yeah, I. Okay, so we're gonna get into the episodes, but before we do, I think this is a nice little addendum to what you were just saying. So, like, that's why Golden Girls matters. Right.

M. Welcome. Um, so I hope I'm not answering too much

But I thought that you and I could talk a little bit more about, like, why Golden Girls, why now?

Nikki: Oh, okay.

Salina: so I know that you've been mulling, things, and I know I have two, especially as we were just trying to decide where to go next. so I hope I'm not answering too much of an off the cuff, unfair question. so with that question in mind, but I'm thinking about our shift. So this is my reasoning. Our shift in the show as our true north or north star. And to the point of our new prologue. Jumping from the southern sass of Designing Women to these sun soaked friendships of Golden Girls. And from big haired soapbox speeches to late night cheesecake chats, that's sort of where, like, I'm coming from, is like that focus on women's stories. and we're getting that in spades here. and, you know, I'VE got some other thoughts, but before I share those, what is it that was pulling you towards Golden Girls?

Nikki: Well, it's, it is, it's like my comfort show. I have watched this show since I was 5 or 6. Like I watched it young and then, like when I was in college, this is the show I would turn on while I did my late night studying. There was like, mad about you would play and something else that I can't place right now. But then Golden Girls would come on at like midnight and if you're up late studying, it's just such a like little comfy blanket to put on you to hear the theme song and the show. I think it's funny and I've always laughed at it, but I think now approaching midlife, being at midlife, I. There's so much more that resonates with me as, a woman who's aging in a world that has advanced since the 80s and early 90s, but in some ways hasn't. and in thinking about what happens next when my kids grow up and move out, what happens next for me as a woman, there's so much of it that's resonating with me now differently. So it's a little piece of comfort zone. It's a little piece of looking at women in kind of a next stage of life. Because Designing Women weren't at this stage in life. They were 30s. I mean we know that, some of them were a little bit older, but more or less they were in their 30s in the, in that part of their life. So this is a different phase of life. So we get to look at it through a different angle. We get a little southern touchstone through Blanche. but it's just a new and different way of looking at how women are represented on tv. And then of course, like going back to our original original how the south is represented on tv. So long winded way of saying lots of reasons. I just love the show.

Salina: That's true. There are a lot of reasons. And I think I absolutely felt like if we were thinking in it from that six degrees of separation kind of like angle it branch. Blanche is really our connector. Blanche is all branch. It's true.

Nikki: She is. That's what I thought you were saying.

Salina: Exactly. thank you for understanding. but I also kind of love that we're landing in Florida, which we've had some conversations about. Yeah. And so now we can go. No. Nope. Before maybe. but certainly not Miami. Sorry.

Nikki: No, absolutely not.

Salina: Sorry and not. Sorry. Honestly.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: And you're welcome. And thank you.

Nikki: Welcome.

Salina: M. And I just for me it was, this is such a nice opportunity to spend time with these iconic characters, these larger than life characters, these deep and meaningful friendships among women. They're not just working together, which is what we got in Designing Women. They're living together. And. But also, it does feel like some life blood with Designing Women because again, it is these kind of like four, archetypes of women. And I think that's going to be so fun to explore and unpack and see what works for us or what doesn't or how it lands, how it doesn't land. And so I'm looking forward to doing that again. I will say, for whatever it's worth, I'll just be cards, on the table here that I. Nikki, I think we were nervous to cover Golden Girls because it is so iconic, because it is so deeply, entrenched in the culture. Almost like this idea of like, do we even have the right M? And you know what? We do. So there you go.

Nikki: I do.

Salina: we're going to take it.

Nikki: I watched it in the middle of the night while I was studying for.

Salina: Finals because this is, a love letter.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: You know, is what I think this is going to wind up being anyways.

I agree with the sentiment that Golden Curls are more appropriate now

That I just thought we could touch on that a little bit, help people understand like why we're getting golden. I do agree as well that like, I mean, I don't feel like I'm in my 50s and 60s. But that said, I think I don't know why you would do that. I do think that, I agree with the sentiment that, it's more appropriate and more easy for me to understand some of what they're unpacking themselves right now than it would have been even five years ago.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: Although there's always been a 60 year old part of me.

Nikki: I mean, I think that has to be the truth for me too. Because how else would a 7 year old sit and watch Golden Curls and enjoy it?

Salina: Right. Well, it's just wickedly written.

Nikki: It is. Really. yeah.

You curate all the episodes that we're watching on Golden Girls

Salina: So let's start with season one, episode one, the engagement, and season one, episode 25, the way we Met Nikki. What people may or may not realize, I don't think we've said this, is that you actually are curating all the episodes that we're watching.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: and so, why did you pick these two episodes?

Nikki: so I think that they gave the best intro to this particular group of girls. So I was going to Start with just the pilot. And then as I looked back through. I don't have all the episodes memorized in my mind, but as I was looking through the seasons and the different episodes, I realized that the one that took us back to the Way They Met actually lays the groundwork. So that's episode 25 actually lays the groundwork a little bit more than the Engagement does. The Engagement does that typical, like, sitcom gloss over things where they do a lot of exposition to explain these things. Whereas the Way We Met almost takes you back in time into their shoes, into that grocery store where. Where most of them met. So, I thought that these would be two really good starting points, for us to pick up on. They're also very funny episodes. They're just clever and well done. I think there are a few flashback episodes through the seasons. but the Way We Met is not flashback in the traditional sense. Like, flashback is where they do those. they go. And they show moments from previous episodes and previous seasons and consolidate them all into one thing. This one is actually like, again, taking you back in time to a flashback. So I just thought they made natural spots for introducing. I know you've watched Golden Girls before, but you've never watched it, like, all the episodes or in great detail. So I thought it would just be a really great way to lay out all of the characters for you at one time.

Salina: It literally could not have been more perfect.

Nikki: Thank you.

Salina: it was a. It was a great pick. It was like Slice of Life meets, exposition meets origin story. And so it was a great way for me to get my feet wet and feel at least semi confident in having this conversation.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: because I am coming in a little bit, like, off kilter, comparatively. Yeah.

In the first episode, we immediately learn archetypes for each of the characters

And then I do also, like, what do they tell us about the show itself and the characters, these two episodes? Is there anything that you wanted to share there?

Nikki: so I think we immediately learn. In the first episode, we immediately learned the archetypes for each of the characters. so we learned that Dorothy's a teacher who doesn't love kids expressing themselves. we learned she has an ex husband who divorced her after 38 years of marriage for a stewardess that he met. A flight attendant. Sorry, that he met on the way to Hawaii. we learn Rose is an overwhelm, overwhelming empath who works at a grief counseling center. And she's a little cuckoo. You can just tell she's not fully there. blanch. The first thing we learn about her in the show, she's asking Dorothy to borrow her mink stole in Miami. so we know something. ja, it's, it's freezing. That's what Miami is known for. she wants cucumbers for her eyes because they reduce the puffiness. But when Rose asks, kind of tongue in cheek, does it work for thighs? How would I know? I don't need that. So we definitely learn quickly that she is, about the way she looks, that she has a real strong, sense of self confidence. worth noting that in this first episode, she doesn't have a Southern accent. and we are gonna have our next episode about Blanche. So it's super noticeable because you go from this episode where there's no Southern accent into some episodes that are Southern accent. Apparently little, behind the scenes moment that Rue, ah, McClanahan approached the producers after the pilot was picked up and said she should have a Southern accent. And that's how it all came together. So that's why from even episode one to two, she picks up a Southern accent.

The first episode introduces Sophia and Coco. We learn she's ridiculously sarcastic

we meet Sophia. And the way we meet her is by learning that her nursing home, burned down. We learned that she's ridiculously sarcastic. And I mentioned this earlier, it's because she had a stroke at some point, which destroyed the part of her brain that censors her. also, another fun fact about Sophia, she was supposed to be a recurring character, but she turned out to be such a hit on this pilot episode that they ended up writing out Coco and putting her in.

Nikki: And Sophia's use of the word pee, in this first episode is the first instance of the word pee on network television.

Salina: Oh, really?

Nikki: Isn't that crazy?

Salina: That is crazy.

Nikki: and then we meet Coco, but this is his only appearance. He's the girl's cook. fun fact about Coco, he is the first openly gay character in any media produced by a division of the Walt Disney Company.

Nikki: So that's what we learned about them in the first episode.

Salina: I just didn't think you were prepared for that at all.

Nikki: sorry. I told you, I'm just winging it this season.

Salina: So I'm gonna take the broad strokes here. And for me, it told me that we were gonna talk about friendships, found family, getting older, maybe, especially as a woman, and what that looks like and what life looks like as you're entering that third act of life. So, I think those are all things, that were circling for me as we watch these respectively, in different places. So Nikki is now calling these, watch parties. And I had to ask, are we watching these together? The answer was no.

Nikki: I was just trying to come up with a cute little thing to call them.

Salina: It's very cute. I love it.

Nikki: What was the other thing? I said we could call them asynchronous viewings of a select number of episodes. It just didn't happen.

Salina: eyes didn't have the same ring.

Nikki: Watch party sounds better.

Salina: It sounds. It sounds more fun.

Nikki: That's what we're all about here.

Salina: Fun. All the fun.

Designing Women's pilot surprised or delighted you on your millionth watch

So, okay, well, let's start with the pilot. And let me ask you. Well, I don't even. I don't know if this question is even fair for you at this point, because how many times have you even seen the pilot? But is. Is there anything you want to talk about that surprised or delighted you on your millionth watch?

Nikki: I have so many things that delight me very, first delight that I had is just that the. The song, the theme, song gave me such warm fuzzy.

Salina: So good.

Nikki: So I haven't watched Golden Girls, probably in, like, three years in a.

Salina: You know, it's like, how. When do we start the podcast? Right.

Nikki: It's a fair point. Yeah.

Salina: Like, well, you keep your women separate.

Nikki: Obviously.

Salina: To you.

Nikki: I know. It's how they function best. Yeah.

Salina: okay. Okay.

Nikki: Yeah, we really did go all in on Designing Women. But also, I've said before that King of Queens is my other emotional port support show, and I really leaned into that. And so, I haven't watched Golden Girls in a while, so I haven't heard the theme song in a while. It just gave me the warm fuzzies. 2025 has been a really tough year for a lot of reasons, and it was nice to have the warm fuzzies.

Salina: Yeah. I wish I could understand. Anyway, so I. I thought that this pile, and this is really, I think, the first that you're hearing from me. I haven't really told. Like, again, I've seen a handful of episodes, maybe even, like 10 or 15, but, like, it was very much so in the background for me. This is very exciting because my grandma loved this show. My grandma passed late last year, and so, like, I feel like I'm getting to spend a little time with her.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: Like, watching the show. Also, I think it's hilarious because she was such a good little Christian lady. And I'm watching the show, and I was like, grandma was naughty.

Nikki: I had this same thought. My grandmother also finds the Golden Girls very funny.

Salina: Yeah. And so I love that, you know? but I thought that the pilot was exceptional, quite frankly. And I think we've talked about this in other episodes. not even necessarily to do with Designing Women, but just about television in general. I don't love a pilot. you're usually watching people fumble around for footing both with their character, but also chemistry with one another, but that wasn't here. I just thought their chemistry together was off the charts. And immediately, you know, one of the things that we talked about with Designing Women is like, you could see the inklings there. But it took some time. And once they got going, it was great, but they needed that time. Bea Arthur is Dorothy. Just automatically warmed the cockles of this gals curmudgeonly cold heart. And, Blanche's sexpot character is a reputation that precedes her. Right. Like, I. That's something that's out there. It's in the culture. But I was surprised that it was. Was so blatantly sexual at some points. I, mean, I was pleased. I thought it was hilarious.

Nikki: It brought me joy and I loved it.

Salina: but like, seeing it firsthand makes the whole setup of the show even more genius, you know, because. And I. We talked about this at some point, but you just put crazy crap in a bunch of old women's mouths. And I feel, and I feel like, and I. Sayings, saying things. Thank you words. I feel like that just really works. It's outlandish and it's okay. It's like a little sugar to let the medicine go down. And quite frankly, it's funnier. It is funnier than someone who is 22 saying something that's raunchy by a landslide.

I think women tease each other a little bit. I think I actually kind of like women ribbing each other

So, the other thing that really stood out to me, and I don't know, this is not necessarily surprise or delight, whatever, I actually had someone who was doing a really nice thing and trying to, talk, not talk someone into it. Like share with someone who had just started watching the Golden Girls. Oh, well, like, you should listen to this podcast. They're gonna start doing the Golden Girl soon. And her response was, I kind of thought they were mean. I stopped watching it and now the Golden Girls.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: Oh. And I was like, And I hadn't started watching yet.

Nikki: That.

Salina: And so I, I tuned in and I was like, well, they are kind of mean to each other, but it's really funny and it's okay. It's okay. I think I actually kind of like women ribbing each other a little bit.

Nikki: That's what you do with your friends, I think.

Salina: Yeah. I think that people like tend to think that women don't do that, you know? Yeah, we definitely do. I mean, my friends tease the hell out of each other.

Nikki: Yeah. We joke around a lot. And that's so interesting. I have.

Salina: Right.

Nikki: Yes. And I have heard, and maybe we'll talk about this at some point, that, like, Bea Arthur got to a point where the comments about her appearance and her weight were challenging for her because they do get a plentiful. but, you know, for me, I never felt like it was mean spirited. It felt like hanging out with my friends.

Salina: Right.

Nikki: Like, this is the sort of teasing we do with one another. You know that person so well. You know how they're going to react. And you, you know, if you're Dorothy, you got to cut that off quick. You got to cut Rose off because she's about to go on a story, and we don't need that right now. We need to focus on this.

Salina: Right, Right. Or, you know, the things that, like the. The places it's okay to go.

Nikki: Yes.

Salina: That is it. It's acceptable. And they'll also find it funny. And you know that it's coming from a place of, like you said, like, really truly knowing someone.

I love this idea of character arch archetypes on Designing Women

and then we've. We've talked about this before, and already today, but I love this idea of the character arch archetypes. I think this is really important. We're, immediately introduced to him. You teed us up for that. I kind of thought it was fun to relate them back to our Designing Women character.

Nikki: Yes.

Salina: So Dorothy is really smart, and she's witty and sarcastic. She's like the Julia. And then Rose is soft and naive, but not to be underestimated, she's our Charlene. Blanche is confident, borderline arrogant. She's the comely one. She's Suzanne. You know. You know what's so funny is, like, I honestly didn't notice that she didn't have a Southern accent, Blanche, in the first episode.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: Neither did Suzanne.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: So it's been fun to kind of go back through, and I will be popping in along the way and, you know, reminding us about Designing Women here and there. and then Sophia. I don't really. There. I don't know. There's a Mary Jo comp, but it's not. Not a comp. Because I do think as the seasons wore on, we saw more of Mary Jo's sarcasm that was in there. but it kind of like more of a Bernice. Mary Jo mashup.

Nikki: Okay, so.

Salina: But probably leaning heavily into the Bernice and we can talk more about that, because I'm wondering if they were a little inspired by her character to do a Bernice, since Designing Women come second. I don't know that for sure, but there's some things in here, especially the strokes, the filters, all this. Something's there. Yeah.

Did anything about the setting or dynamics strike you as regional, Miami Southern

Did anything about the setting or dynamics strike you as regional, Miami Southern, etc?

Nikki: Can I ask you a question real quick?

Salina: Absolutely.

Nikki: And thinking about things that delighted me about this, pilot. Did you catch the blink and you miss it cameo from Anthony Bouvier?

Salina: I absolutely did not. It might be featured in a little second at the end that's going to be called. How is this like, Designing Women?

Nikki: Okay, perfect.

Salina: But, yeah, how could. How could you?

Nikki: As soon as I heard his voice, I was like.

Salina: I think we're gonna have some really fun cameos to unpack across the episodes that we watch, so maybe we won't. But there are some crazy cameos. And you're including, like, Quentin Tarantino. Yeah. That's nuts.

Nikki: Yeah, I think, Yeah, there are some. It's true. so regional. I, feel like there's a really clear sense of place based on both the set and the dialogue. So it's very 80s in terms of the set and very Miami. There's a lot of wicker furniture, floral prints. Dorothy, comes in talking about teaching school in Dade County. She hits on some very 1980s talking points, like the bald girl named Tiffany. Like, just very 80s. and then she pours orange juice into her glass, which struck me the last time I watched it. They are always drinking orange juice. And I was wondering, like, is that supposed to be a nutrition thing, or is that just a Miami? Like, don't forget citrus. Yeah, we're in. We're in Florida.

Salina: Or like, Tropicana was paying them.

Nikki: Yeah, yeah, something was happening. and there were some really. I mean, just honestly, really pointed comments about Miami. So you cannot forget you're in Miami. and then the last thing I noticed is, you can communicate to him right through your heart, can't you, Dorothy? That's Rose talking about, Blanche worrying that her husband doesn't know that she's happy. And she's like, no, he does. He knows you're here. and Dorothy says, oh, don't ask me. I can't get through to New Jersey with MCI. So both 80s and also a reminder of, like, the geography here, reminding you the north is really far away. We're way down here in the south. And Florida, right?

Salina: Well, so I think the ones that really pop for me was, like, kind of this general snowbird culture is a. Is kind of weaving. We're weaving. It's woven throughout, like, different things that you're hearing. this is a spoiler alert for my. One of my favorite lines. But Dorothy makes a crack about every man under 80 smuggling cocaine, so it's giving Miami. Sophia has a whole thing about her Cuban taxi driver. And then there's, like, to your point about that sense of place, we've got the rattan furniture, we've got the palm tree wallpaper. We've got the plastic flamingo flamingos that are mentioned in someone else's yard. so I think that's all there and in the sauce.

Nikki: Don't forget you're in Miami.

Salina: That, too. and then. So Blanche is our Southern north star in terms of that.

Nikki: Our Southern star, yeah.

Salina: Yeah. I just have, like, ellipses. But, you know, not all of these are strictly mentioned in the first episode. But she says something at some point about cotillion cantaloupe thumping. It's a real thing, y'. All. I'm not good at it, but it is a real thing. I don't pick fruit. then there's, like, these settler Southern moments, like when she makes comments, like, about getting murdered in New York. It just sounds like something Southern would say. I'm just saying. Or how her roommates from Minnesota were strange. You know, it, It's like these little Southern, like you. They ain't from around here. You know what I'm saying? Even when you're not there anymore.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: They still ain't from around here. From around here. I don't know. Funny.

How is gender or aging represented from the very beginning? Uh, it was mostly aging over gender

How is gender or aging represented from the very beginning?

Nikki: so for me, it was mostly aging over gender. Although, I mean, I will say, obviously, like, they're single women living together.

Salina: Right.

Nikki: but aging came up a lot. Like, there was the comment, I would kill to be 20 again. Dorothy's, like, I would kill to be 40 again. So this was really bittersweet to me. Right. Like, it's a commentary on both of those issues, to be honest. The idea that somehow you lose your girlhood card when you hit a certain age, even if you could still fit in. Because it's sort of in this context of her talking with younger women at school and feeling like she was right there with the girls. And then she got in her car and saw herself and was like, oh, crap, I'm old. I'm not them. I'm Old. It was just really bittersweet.

Salina: Right?

Nikki: I, think Rose's monologue about being alone is actually a highlight of the show. Like, the entire series. For me, it's really the whole point of the show. they all felt this way in the beginning that they were truly alone, but they pushed their way through on sort of that survival path. They found each other, and they found this new family, this new life. super inspiring. but as a reminder, Rose said, it's not fair. You know, I mean, we get married, we have kids, the kids leave, and our husbands die. Is that some kind of test? You don't work that hard. You don't go through everything you go through to be left alone. We are alone, Dorothy. We really are. Our families are gone, and we're alone, and there are too many years left, and I don't know what to do. It's one of the most beautiful pieces of the show.

Salina: A hundred percent.

It is that intersection between aging and gender, too. Especially, like, the motherhood piece of it

I also had that flagged as something that really stood out to me. I mean, it really. It is the setup, I think, that's such a great way to put that. It is that intersection between aging and gender, too. Especially, like, the motherhood piece of it. You know, the. The commonality of the stage of life that they're all in. You know, you can get to a certain age, and if you're a seeker, you're always a seeker in life. You know, age, is just something to navigate. It's just one more thing to navigate. it can be beautiful, but there's still stuff to it. And the hallmarks of time passing. You know, we. We've. This has been nicely sprinkled throughout this conversation, I think. But it's like these milestones are the things that brought them together. And not every milestone is a happy moment, you know, so whether it was divorce or losing spouses or whatever, you know, living far from their children, all of those things is also what pushes them together and gives us this beautiful found family. I. I agree. A lot of the gender stuff is about women. I did think it was interesting. In the first few lines of the show, Dorothy comes in basically talking about boys with purple hair and girls with shaved heads. You mentioned. You mentioned Tiffany. She's Tiffany. but it does feel part and parcel to that typical separation between generations, but also, in this case, a reaction to gender expression. And because we do get, a gay male character in the beginning, he's, like, also pointing out they're just being kids or just being who they are, just expressing themselves or finding themselves Right. And I think that was highly unusual for 85, for whatever that's worth. and then Sophia, in terms of the age thing, she gives us that insight into someone who isn't just older, but elderly. You know, they're playing it, funny, but, like, you know, she is facing real health issues. Strokes are real.

Nikki: Dorothy had to come check her breathing with a mirror.

Salina: Well, I hope Casey does that for me someday.

Nikki: He will. Ah.

The flashback scene with them in the grocery store was my favorite of the season

Salina: so let's speed ahead to that last episode of the season. I'm so sorry. Are you ready for that?

Nikki: Sure.

Salina: I didn't even ask. I'm just like, we're not in the south anymore. We're not in South. I'm not worried.

Nikki: You don't have to be polite anymore.

Salina: I'm just a snowbird now.

Nikki: Freeze on.

Salina: I'm cold.

Nikki: I gotta take my pills.

Salina: okay, so just generally speaking, the flashback scene with them in the grocery store, I'm just gonna say that's my favorite.

Salina: I thought it's so good when Blanche insists on getting the smoked oysters, basically telling Dorothy it's how to get men excited. And then we just see Dorothy throw more cans in, and Blanche walks away on the sly. I just really wasn't expecting that. their general bafflement with how they shop, what they buy, like, respectively, what they're willing to spend. Rose calls attention to all the wrong prices. I mean, she's really giving Charlene, you know, I was thinking the Donkey Girl Scout or whatever Julia was calling her towards the end of the show. Yeah, it was really. Or towards the end of Charlene's run was really ringing true there for me. I love that they plowed through that entire cheesecake, which we in. In not. Not in the flashback. And I love that that was on top of. Where's the Oreos? All the Oreos are gone. Where's the sprinkles? All the sprinkles are gone. Why are you eating sprinkles? I don't know, but it's happening. And by the way, I'm still hungry. Like, that just really. That really worked for me. and I. I. Sorry, I'm just launching into stuff.

Blanche knew from the beginning how wacky Rose and Sophia were

Are there things that, like, really that you love, that you wanted to talk about?

Nikki: Same. All the things.

Salina: All the things.

Nikki: I think in this episode, we find out that, to be fair, Blanche knew from the very beginning how wacky Rose and Sophia were, because we see her interacting with both of them early on. So she knew. She knew what she was getting into.

Salina: Right? Yeah.

Nikki: From the sisters that bathed together.

Salina: M. Flossed each other.

Nikki: Lost each other's teeth. I was gonna say licked each other's ears, but that wasn't right. Yours is better. Go with that. Flossed each other's teeth.

Salina: Well, thanks for one. Up. And what. What seemed, like, really odd to, like, just even weirder behavior, but, yeah, it is. I. You know, we learn how they came together, and, I don't know, it's just really fun. And I like that it showed that it almost didn't work out.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: They really had to warm to one another.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: Ah. Not just personalities, but how they do daily life. I mean, shopping, where things go, house. I mean, these are. They're. They're. They sound insignificant, but they're not. We are people who get into, like, a rhythm. Thank you. And like, when someone takes you up out of your rhythm or changes things, and I'm feeling this way at 40. I felt that way at 35 and 30. And so I'm just, like, flashing forward to think about how I feel then, and that would be tough.

Nikki: I. Kind of similar to that, there was the part where, Rose accidentally broke Blanche's vase. And, it's one of my favorite Blanche deliveries. And she gives this similar delivery for similar lines throughout the series. She was very, very sick for a very, very long time. I loved her very, very much. And then Dorothy says, blanche, why don't you just grind the broken pieces into her hand? And it's again, like, sets up their interactions with one another. And you see from the very beginning, from the first couple of days they were living together, they were living like this.

Salina: Right.

Nikki: This is how they interacted with one another.

Are there any surprises about their backstories in this episode or pilot

Salina: Yeah. And I think we've done. And you did such a nice job towards the beginning talking about their backstories. Is there. Are there any surprises, either in this episode or in the pilot, about their backstories at this point that we've missed?

Nikki: You just mentioned it. I forgot Blanche supposedly had two roommates before Dorothy and Rose and Sophia, and that they were from Minnesota, like Rose. I just had forgotten that. Yeah, I didn't remember that. And then, the other thing. I don't think there were any other surprises and actually love that for us because Designing Women did a little bit of creative rewriting of things. King of Queens does this a lot where, you know, if you. If you binge it, you remember what happened in season one. And so then they've changed that. You know, he had a sister or this, that, and the other. And I really hate that because I feel gaslit. And they didn't do that here. Like we didn't find out in this flashback episode that Sophia actually came to tour the house with Dorothy and was moving in with her on day one. And we just forget Shady Pines existed.

Salina: Right.

Nikki: All along she's living in Shady Pines while Dorothy's living over here. And I just appreciate that they didn't gaslight us.

Salina: That is nice to not be gaslit, isn't it?

Nikki: I'd love it. It's a dream. It's so much.

There are other emotional themes that get reinforced on Designing Women

Salina: so also we talked a little bit about Chosen Family, and we've talked a little bit about. Not just how they came together like on a message board in a grocery store, but these larger things that have happened in their life. Just want. There are other emotional themes that get reinforced, and I'm really going to broaden it out to say in anything that we watched that you would like to talk about. I could also kick us off if you want.

Nikki: I'll, I'll just mention the, the theme of, you know, we've talked about aging, we've talked about Chosen Family, and I think we'll be able to talk about that more as the show goes on. There's also this concept of resilience that's going to pop up a little bit. this show is very funny. There are a couple of, deep episodes and deep plots. I think Designing Women did more of the emotional stuff than Golden Girls is going to do, but resilience is always sort of the undercurrent there. So Blanche is, she's lost her one true love, her husband. She's trying to find. Find what comes next for her. Rose, clearly we just talked about this a minute ago. Lost her husband, and it's been really hard for her. Dorothy's navigating a late in life divorce, which is a different kind of difficult. and then of course, like, Sophia's home burned down, so she's trying to, like, get herself together. So I think resilience is one of those issues that, comes up a lot both in this episode. 25. It was in the first episode, and I think it just persist throughout the show. And I don't want to lose that because I'm thinking about why this show, why now. I've had a really tough year. You had a really tough year last year. You guys have faced different challenges this year as well. We have to be resilient. And when we don't have that resilience, life is impossible to navigate. So again, I think in watching this show, it's reminding me that that's just part of life. You have to find your way through and you have to stay nimble and you have to just sort of go with that. The punches.

Salina: I'm told that the only way out is through this is what they say. yes. And that it can shift at any stage or age.

Nikki: Any stage or age.

Salina: And, it can come up in the least expected places. You can go through things at the same time. They can pile on around you.

Nikki: They can just pile right on. It can always get worse.

Salina: Maybe you don't know where your next paycheck's coming from. I'm just saying it could have. Lots of things can happen. Lots of things can happen, Nikki. That's all.

M. M. Bennett: Friendship takes time. It doesn't always happen easily or overnight

But, like, there's also cheesecake, so. And I think just in terms of, like, thinking about cheesecake. Yeah.

Nikki: It never goes away.

Salina: I highly doubt that these women anticipated they would one day be living with three other women or two other women and a woman who pops in occasionally sitting around a cheesecake on the tail end of watching Psycho together. I just don't think that's how they thought their life was going to turn out. But I also think that this shows the beauty that can come from unexpected twists and turns in our journey, that we can find our way. and again, like that deep and valuable meaning of friendship and the way that women in particular can see each other. M. So. And understand each other and what life can look like when we see and understand each other. It. Those hard hits might land a little bit more softly. M. on the film Family Thing, I just add that it reminds us that, you know, those. It doesn't always happen easily or overnight. That's kind of was my takeaway from this episode. and that friendship in general takes time. It takes. Yes. It is work. It is. You have to nurture it. You have to love it. You have to. You have to want to show up and you have to meet people where they are and remember that as a part of that resiliency conversation. People are going through crap all the time. All the time. And if we forget that, then we're probably not showing up for them to be the friends that we could be if we remember that and remembered that, life is ongoing.

Nikki: So, just keeps going.

Salina: It keeps going. Just.

Are there any golden lines that stick out to you about this show

Let's go into some last thoughts on these episodes. Are there any golden lines that stick out to you?

Nikki: I have three to share.

Nikki: Please, Rose, listen, if you're Irish, you have. Oh, this is. So, Rose is Talking about Blanche being stuck in bed for a couple of days after Harry doesn't show up for the wedding. This is the first episode we watched. so Dorothy says, please, Rose, listen, if you're Irish, you have a wake, you eat, you cry, you drink, you vomit, you're done. If you're Jewish, you cry, you sit, you eat for seven days, you put on ten pounds and it's over. We Italian scream, dress up a donkey, hire a band, and that's that. It's these Southern Protestants who make it a way of life. Us. Inspired writing.

Salina: That is perfect. I'm glad you grabbed that one.

Nikki: Wow, it's brilliant. I also really loved, You scared me half to death. I'm sorry, Rose. Next time I walk into a dark room in the middle of the night, I'll send a mariachi band ahead of me. That interplay between Dorothy and Rose is just. It's always so funny. The fact that that registers as mean for some people. I hate that because it's just really funny. Yes, it's just really funny. Yes. And then, the Great Herring War scene from the Way We Met is a classic in the show. That's when, Rose is talking about this. This Great Herring War that happens back in Minnesota.

Salina: Yes.

Nikki: It is a, perfect clip, and it is a perfect picture, of who Rose is. Yeah, that's it right there.

Salina: Yes.

Nikki: Those were my favorites.

Salina: Oh, I love that. Okay, so the whole show is nothing but one liners, which made this really, like, a tough exercise. And honestly, I just cut myself off because I was like, they're just all good. Like, you could literally sit there and write down the whole episode. I narrowed it down to a handful. I think it's Rose who says, all Blanche said was, he still has his hair in his own teeth. Or. Sorry, his hair and his own teeth. And Dorothy responds, oh, it's wonderful. Dating in Miami, all the Single men under 80 are cocaine smugglers. So, and. And I had already alluded to this, line, but it's so good that it bears repeating.

Nikki: It's so good.

Salina: The whole initial exchange between Rose and Blanche in the grocery store is good. But maybe this is my favorite part. Blanche says, I got a feeling you're a wild woman. And Rose says, oh, you bet I am. I eat raw cookie dough, and occasionally I run through the sprinklers and don't wear a bathing cap. And at Christmas, I've been known to put away more than one eggnog.

Nikki: She is a wild woman. And you know what? I would hang with her all day long.

Salina: That's right. Wild women do and they don't regret it. That's what Pretty Woman taught me, I think. Is that what that movie is for? I don't know. Somebody. It's a song. we get that funny exchange between the fortune teller who comes to apply his roommate. She says, I see a woman in a white uniform riding and screaming and there's a man kneeling over her. I think that's supposed to be writhing, not writing. Anyways.

Nikki: Well, I don't know.

Salina: You can write stuff down, but it doesn't help, guys. Anyways. To which Blanche responds, if it was last Wednesday, that was me and the gentleman I'm currently dating, but that was a French maid's uniform. And then finally, Blanche's comments that the Psycho shower scene is the reason she doesn't sleep alone. To which Dorothy says, sure, Blanche. And Goldilocks and the three bears is why you don't sleep alone. So those were just good for.

Were there any dated references that we should talk about on Designing Women

Nikki: Great.

Salina: I think we've kind of plug some of these in along the way. But there were. Were there any dated references that we should talk about?

Nikki: You just mentioned Psycho. And we're gonna get to that, I think, in a minute.

Salina: Yes, I think we are.

Nikki: We'll see. I think there was a Bet Midler reference in there somewhere. I mentioned MCI already.

Nikki: So yeah, there. There are a few dated ones.

Salina: Mr. Rogers, Candid Camera. Candid Camera came up a lot on Designing Women too. They love Candid Camera back in the 80s. I guess it's a funny show. Yes.

Nikki: I love, I love the idea that you could get punked at any point in time out in public, just punch.

Salina: Him in the face.

Nikki: I don't want it to happen to me.

Salina: America's Funniest Shot in the nuts. so. And then the community board in the grocery store for roommates. Yeah, that's a. It's a thing.

Nikki: The OG Craigslist.

Salina: That's right. That's right. So.

Nikki: God. Oh, I can't even imagine.

Salina: I did tell you that I had. No, absolutely.

Nikki: Oh my God.

Salina: I did tell you that I have put together like a little thing where with Designing Women, similarities. So what I'm gonna say is because I feel bad putting you on the spot if you had others besides Anthony showing up in the first episode. Okay, great. So, And I'm done. And ah, I've moved on scenes. And as what I bring to the show, I do not move on.

The back and forth between Dorothy and Blanche is so reminiscent of Julia

But I had just a couple, so I'll mention Those. But just like Designing Women, there's an episode related to an unexpected proposal in the pilot, so I thought that was interesting. The. The back and forth between Dorothy and Blanche for me is so reminiscent of Julia and Suzanne, especially when it comes to the sexual piece. Okay, so, like, one of them is dating and the other one's making fun of them the whole time. So, there's just something there. And then the, the actor Charles Levine, who plays Coco, he was in Designing Women. He was in the sixth season, that episode where Anthony goes on the men's retreat. Oh, he was like the lead baby. He was the lead baby.

Nikki: Man.

Salina: Changed a lot between those two seasons. But it is him. He was also wearing like a loincloth. Yeah, well, and like ash on his.

Nikki: Face or something, so it's hard to see through the ash.

Salina: And then I said this already, but I'll say it again. Estelle is giving Bernice, or Bernice is giving Estelle. But one thing that I will say for sure is I would have liked to have seen that spin off.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: So, yeah, I kept it. I kept it short.

Nikki: I love it.

The last random that I have, just completely random. Susan Harris' son is Sam Harris

Salina: The last random that I have, just completely random. Susan Harris. Her son is Sam Harris. He's like the philosopher, neuroscientist, best selling author. He's a podcast host of a really, Well, I'm like, well attended, well listened to. I don't know, highly downloaded this show. he's like this guy who explores, like, controversial questions about society and the human mind and current events and I mean, he's like a really famous atheist. anyways, I just thought it was. He's got his own, like, meditation app that like, takes like, all of any kind of, like, religious or Buddhist or any like, piece out of it called, like, the Waking Up App. I've done a couple of his meditations. Anyways, I just thought that was just a small thing.

Nikki: Six degrees of separation. Sometimes it's just one.

Salina: That's right. But it's. It's like, it is interesting to think, like, the kind of quick wit that it seems like that she has and this like. Or like, just go look up a Sam Harris clip. Any Sam Harris clip. And then juxtapose that with Golden Girls and tell me if your mind doesn't go. That's all. So looking forward.

Nikki: We're gonna watch Sam Harris.

Salina: We're gonna watch. You're not.

Nikki: I'm not.

These episodes help us understand the show's take on womanhood or independence

Salina: how do these episodes help us understand the show's take on womanhood or independence?

Nikki: I think the most obvious thing Is just the women sort of striking out on their own without men for one reason or another. Men are interwoven. They're part of the experience, but they're not the mechanism that helps these women live. They are doing it on their own, which I feel like putting it into the context of the 80s. sometimes I feel so silly saying that because we've regressed so much, because I think this, this show holds true today. Like, you still feel like this is relevant. so I think that's probably the biggest piece for both womanhood and independence. I think the other thing is that they're finding comfort with other women in similar situations, and they're supporting one another and they're helping one another navigate these things, which I think is going to tell us something along the way about womanhood at a certain age, how that is or is not different from where we are in life, where we were 10 years ago. It just changes over time. And you can look to your female friends to fill different roles in your lives.

Salina: Yeah, I think this show seems to agree that these women are strong, they're united, and they're independent. It, you know, I think everything you said is perfect. My only addendum would just be to this idea that we've circled before, which is that false narrative that there's only so many seats at the table. And so women historically have felt the need to kill one another to get that last seat at the table, that supposed last seat. And I love that this helps us understand what women might be able to achieve if they came together versus letting, I don't know, the patriarchy, knock them down and make them fall apart. So I knew I'd get patriarchy in. I hope that we have some listeners that will create a bingo card for us. If patriarchy goes on your bingo card, you've got a good shot at winning. That's all I'm saying.

Nikki: Who knows what the prize will be?

Salina: Who knows? Who knows?

So are there any early signs that these women push against cultural or gender expectations

So are there any early signs that these women push against cultural or gender expectations?

Nikki: I think, again, I mean, I don't want to, belabor the point, but again, living out their lives on their own as widows or divorcees is one thing. I think you mentioned this earlier. Putting, unexpected dialog into the character of an older woman is, going to push against what, what the culture would have expected, certainly in the mid-80s. but again, still rings true today. Like, that's why Betty White was so influential, especially in her later years, because she embraced really raunchy roles and really Raunchy dialogue, and it just resonated with people because you don't expect it.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: so I think that's one thing. And then, Sophia is just obviously going to defy expectations in that vein. Like, she's just really sassy. Says what she wants, she bets at the dog track. you know, that you're in for a ride for her, and you just don't know where that ride's gonna take you. And I don't know that there were many characters like that on TV at that time. There certainly aren't now that I'm aware of. so it's just pushing. It's, building its own path that's very different than everything else that we've been watching.

Salina: Yeah. And I think. So I'm gonna get a little bit more granular and just say, like. And I think this is going to come up again, maybe even in this week's Extra Sugar. But the show is pushing back on the stereotype that women can't be sexual when they're older. You know, I think that's a huge part of this. so, yes, like, we are putting lines that are more acceptable. We're giving lines to older people because it feels more acceptable for them to say it. But also, like, there is, there are things that are just true for being older that sometimes get pushed to the side or pushed down or, you know, thought past. And the in. In line with that. This show is like, reminding us, like, you don't just have to fade away or your life gets smaller or boring. I do think those things can happen. I mean, I've seen that happen with, like, grandparents. I've seen that happen with people I know as they age. But it doesn't have to be that way. And I think this show is a perfect example of that. we'll also go deeper into that in this week's Extra Sugar. But I think that this is especially groundbreaking for a show that is 40 years old now and then, should we end this thing with a. A sidebar, an end bar, if you will?

Nikki: We should.

Salina: Yeah.

For our popcorn break, we're gonna step into Psycho a little bit

For our popcorn break, we're gonna call it this time. We're gonna step into Psycho a little bit today.

Nikki: Thank you for the invitation. I've been waiting.

Salina: It's just always sitting right there. You know what I'm saying? I don't have to wade very far.

Nikki: Right here just hanging out.

Salina: I didn't want to ignore the fact that we had this huge, like, reference come up in our final episode, which is the movie of Psycho. And I don't want to ignore the fact that it's October. So we are in the throes. Yes. We're in the throws and the thongs. a spooky season. I just wanted to see if I would get. Get Nikki's attention. I did. So we are in the throes of spooky season. And I thought that, like, how could we just skip over Psycho? It didn't seem to make sense to me. So, we both watched it. Nikki, was that your first time watching Psycho?

Nikki: I think I've. I know I've seen pieces of it, and I definitely get all of the main references for it. I think that might have been my first intentional watch.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: I've probably bumped up against it from time to time, but I think that's the first time I, you know, how I felt historically about the black and white movies. Brandon from Front Row Classics, I think, has turned me a little bit on that, because we've watched several, and I like them all, but traditionally, if it was black and white, I wasn't gonna watch it.

Salina: Right. Well, you can't say that today.

Nikki: I can't.

Salina: what. What worked for you about Psycho?

Nikki: I enjoyed it so much. So, first of all, it had that thing we've been talking about recently, like, a good length. I didn't feel like I was watching it for seven years. It was just the right amount of length. so the tension and the overall creepiness, that is, like. That is the perfect scary movie for me. I like tension.

Salina: Right.

Nikki: I like creepy. I do not like bloodshed. I do not like exorbitant violence. But, like, this was, like, good. It. It struck the balance. Well, the music is perfect. The music is incredible. I'm pretty sure we played, like, a medley of Psycho songs when I was in orchestra, and I could hear that sort of coming out through the movie. It was timed perfectly. I see why each song existed. Loved that so much. And then Anthony Perkins, top notch. He is giving Edward Norton in Primal Fear in this character in a way that I didn't know existed pre Edward Norton. Primal Fear.

Salina: Oh, what a nice comp. Okay.

Nikki: Yeah. It's so perfect. I love that character, in Primal Fear and this read that way to me. So all of those things worked perfectly for me.

Salina: Yeah, I agree, with all of that. I think the suspension is nice. I also don't want to just see there, sit there and see someone, like, hacked to death. That's not, like, a good time for me.

Nikki: No. It makes me nauseous.

Salina: It all of the things, I forgot though how early that death happens. You know, I think I'm. I haven't seen it in several years. So like, like it. I, I remember being surprised the first time I watched it and because it's been so long, I was surprised again. I was like, oh, like 10 minutes into the movie. What else is there to do?

Nikki: It's very Scream.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: And Drew Barrymore.

Salina: Yes.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: And I definitely thought the, the psychology of it was very interesting. Especially for then I thought you lit. That's a, that the Edward Norton thing. I was not expecting that. That's so great. You literally see Anthony Perkins become darker over the course. These little, little you. And you have to watch. You cannot just listen to this movie. You have to watch because they are doing so much with his character. that must have been a really fun character to play.

Salina: I think. so yeah, all of that worked for me and I was, I was happy to revisit it.

I did not enjoy the pacing of this movie

What, what did you not like or what may have not worked for you across it?

Nikki: I don't know that it's necessarily that it didn't work. I'm just still not really sure what to do with it. The pacing was unusual. So you mentioned the death of Marian happens pretty quickly. That is true. However, we also spend a lot of time at the beginning with this good girl, bad girl dilemma thing happening where she's trying to decide if she's going to steal the money or not. It felt like that took a really long time and so I actually had to double check I was watching the right movie because I was like, what's happening here? Why are we still on this? So the pacing was a little bit weird because then you also get to the end this sort of like, explanation of who this guy is, what is happening here. That all happens in about 10 minutes right at the very end of the movie. So it was just a little bit of an unusual pacing. Maybe the fact that it's a movie of a different generation, essentially, maybe that's like sort of a piece of that and we're just used to something different. but it just felt when you have such a short period of time to cover anyway, the pacing felt unusual.

Salina: I would, I'll go a step further and say I did not enjoy the pacing.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: So okay, I'm right there with you. In fact, I was like, I believe it's. Once she finally is interfacing Janet Lee with Anthony Perkins, the movie gets significantly better.

Nikki: That's when it's. When the movie starts.

Salina: Essentially just lobbed all of that first part off. Yeah, I, I. Yeah, I actually was texting with a friend, and I was like, this movie is awful. Like, it's. It's long. I don't know why this. You know what I'm saying? And then when we got to that part, I was. It's around when Casey got home, and then he wanted to turn off the. Because it's black and white. And I was like, gotta finish it. Yeah.

Nikki: It's only an hour and 40 minutes.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: 10 minutes left.

Salina: This is, like. This is where it gets good. This is the good stuff. I thought the exposition by the guy at the end, the lawyer was. Or the psychologist was super weird. I understood it. Like, all of it was really. I was like, everything he's saying is interesting, but, like, it's all coming so fast, you know? so that didn't necessarily work for me. I have some feelings. We can talk about this in a later question. But, it did feel like we were. There's something to it that felt like maybe we were villainizing the woman in the beginning and then killing her for fun. I don't know something about that. Also, like, I think I get. I know too much about Alfred Hitchcock now.

Nikki: Like, things.

Salina: I just wish I knew less about him.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: And because I know that he liked to torture his female stars. Man, that's really left us a, bad taste in my mouth. And I'm watching his movies and, wondering, like, dang, what did he put this girl through?

Nikki: You know, she never showered again. She really didn't.

Salina: Oh, what?

Nikki: After this, she would only take baths. Okay.

Salina: Like, for real.

Nikki: For real.

Salina: Okay. Yeah.

Nikki: She was terrified. It's really sad.

Salina: Okay. That one I didn't know.

Nikki: M. I'm pretty sure I'm not making that up.

Salina: And. And I think everybody knows that the. It is Jamie Lee Curtis's mom that feels worth knowing.

Nikki: Yeah. Well, I found that out.

Salina: Queens.

Nikki: I found that. I knew it.

I did not fully process this was Janet Leigh. In my mind, I knew Jamie Lee Curtis is related to someone

I did not fully process this was Janet Leigh. I tried really hard not to look things up until I watched it.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: Like, fully in its entirety. Intentional watching. yeah. So that all came together for me. I rem. In my mind, I knew Jamie Lee Curtis is related to someone screen like two scream queens. I knew that talking point, that, like, narrative. But I hadn't put together this. Was this. Was that right?

Salina: Yeah. that actually, you know what I really like closely, I think when I was younger and I watched it, I was Too scared that something bad would happen. Like, gross.

Nikki: Oh, okay. Yeah.

Salina: But, like, I really watched it. And you. The cuts are pretty harsh.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: Honestly.

Nikki: Honestly.

Salina: you can. That is probably where the movie looks the oldest, to be honest. And then, like, there was such a very small amount of blood that I was like, I don't think. I mean, I'm not a doctor, but there's just, like, one trickle of blood.

Nikki: I'm like, you're so desensitized to it now.

Salina: It's more awful than that.

Nikki: I don't know that you would have thought that on first viewing of this movie. I think you would have thought, wow, that's a lot of blood.

Salina: maybe.

Nikki: And now, like, you just can't watch a creepy movie without gobs of blood.

How does this compare to scary movies today

Salina: Which I think is a great segue to my next question that I had on deck for us, which is just like, how does this compare to scary movies today? Is it same, better, worse, Different? Have you seen a scary movie in the last 10 years?

Nikki: I try not to question.

Salina: Yeah, I don't watch a lot of them. I'll come back every now and then and watch something, but most of it's like, it's either, like, it's just too scary or too creepy or too ridiculous or, like, I don't want to see, like, the Megan kind of movies that are, like, m. It's, like, kind of supposed to. To be funny, but, like, also, like, there's. I don't know. It just doesn't really do anything for me.

Nikki: I love scary in the tension that you don't see versus the tension that you do. Like, I love to let my imagination put the pieces together, and that's what I really liked about this movie, because I don't need to see somebody being stabbed to know they're being stabbed.

Salina: Right.

Nikki: I can know that.

Salina: Right?

Nikki: I can know that, and I don't need to see it. and then, you know this, thing about his mother in. On. In the upstairs, and just you only hear her voice speaking, and so you kind of wonder, like, what's with that and what's happening there? so I appreciated that aspect, of it. So, for me, this sort of scary is always going to be superior to the other sort of scary. Yeah.

Salina: I think what we need is a marriage between today's style of acting and pacing and things like that, for sure. And. And with this idea that you don't have to see absolutely everything. And it's more of, like, I would rather have, like, my idea. I don't shutter island, like, this thing where it, like, has, like, notes of scary.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: But it's really more about the psychology and this shroud of mystery that we can of, like, get to. Oh.

Nikki: Ah.

Salina: Ah. Through is much. Is much more enticing to me than seeing, like, a little girl come up out of the floorboards, half eaten already or whatever, you know what I'm saying? So same page city there.

Nikki: Same page city.

Is there anything about this movie that felt like a strategic pick to you

Salina: And then I just wanted to know, is there anything about this movie that felt like a strategic pick to you on the part of the show? Like, they could have picked anything under the sun, for these women to have been watching. Do you think there's a reason they may have picked Psycho?

Nikki: I am so curious to hear what you're thinking here. so you shared the questions in advance so I could kind of think, get my thoughts together.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: I want to know kind of where you're going with this question, because, I mean, I took it at, like a very superficial, level. Like, yeah, this is a movie. They would be the right generation to have been at a point in their life where they would have watched this.

Salina: Yes, I think that's definitely right. And I can't see these women sitting around watching Hellraiser.

Nikki: Right.

Salina: You know, I mean, maybe that would have been kind of funny, but, I. Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. Like, brass tacks for me, as I was thinking about it, and before I'd even crack this thing back on to try and give it a shot, if I remember her being by herself and a woman alone and the scariness of a woman being alone and that all four of these women are three. And then I don't think Sophia's been scared a day in her life. but, like, have. There is sort of this fear about being on their own and what that means. And, So I thought there was some strategy to that pick in that way, even if it wasn't conscious for the writer.

Nikki: Right.

Salina: and then the other thing that I thought as I was watching it is it just sort of reminded me about. About how I, like, we really love to use, like, something scary to keep people in line, but maybe especially women we open on this movie and she is, in a sexual relationship outside of marriage. I think they may have made her steal something to make it, like, to make it her character a little less clear on the. Is she good? Is she bad? You know, I actually thought that was way out of school. There was. We didn't have enough background to know why that would have Been what she had would have done. I'm not sure it, like, actually made sense for me, but it just felt like this thing of, like a little bit of punishing women for, taking their life into their own hands and living a life that felt right for them versus the life that society thinks might be right for you, you know?

Nikki: That's so fascinating. So I read something that. That scene where she goes back to her house or her apartment or whatever and she's packing her clothes. She goes from, like, white clothes to dark clothes. And it's supposed to be that transition from the moment that she goes from being a, clearly good. Like, They use the term angelic. But what you're adding is sort of making me rethink that a little bit. But go from that to being like a villain who, you know, she's a bad lady who stole the money.

Salina: Right. She, just saw 40 grand and went to the dark side.

Nikki: But it's so funny to me because I didn't see it that way. I was sort of thinking, like, putting this movie into the context of the time. You don't expect a woman to steal money to solve a problem, and you don't expect her to go on the run. And that's why this cop is watching her so much, because it is so unusual. She's pushing back on that a little bit.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: It surprises you a little bit.

Salina: Like. So subversion.

Nikki: Exactly. Okay. Exactly. Instead of him solving the problem, she's like, screw it. I'm gonna put the pants on and deal with this. Let's just solve this. If the money's the issue I gotta fix. And so it felt, She felt very much like a strong female character to me. She didn't feel victimized in any sort of way. I could feel her guard up while she was talking to Anthony Perkins character. Because it wasn't safe for her to be a woman alone. Like, she knew that and she had that guard. And that's why I got so mad. He took advantage of her because she was trying to do all the right things and take care of herself. So I thought she was a strong female character. I liked her. I hated to see her go, yeah.

Salina: And I don't even spoils these. Yeah. I. I don't think. She wasn't strong, so I agree with that take. It's like more like, what society, will and will not accept for a woman. M. She was strong and they murdered her in the show.

Nikki: She had to go.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: She had to get gown.

Salina: We won't Be having any of that.

Nikki: It's. It, It's very. I'm gonna have to rethink it now. And I'm glad I don't know all the things about Alfred Hitcock that you do, because I feel like that would have ruined the watch for me.

Salina: It's better not to know. but that now that you. You could go and watch some of the content on it. Because he's a very fascinating person. And, like, the relationships that he held, like, he was married the entire time that, like. And he had, like, a very. Go watch. All the women he's ever cast in a movie, they're all the same woman. So something's going on there.

Well, I fell asleep the first time I was watching Psycho

Nikki: Well, I fell asleep the first time I was watching Psycho and, fell asleep, like, three quarters of the way through. It had nothing to do with the movie. I just am tired. and the birds came on right after it, and I woke up and I was like, is this the same movie? Because it looked like the same actor. It's like, am I watching this?

Salina: But it was tippy.

Nikki: But it was tippy.

Salina: Yeah. Yeah, that's. That's funny. so I almost was gonna make that joke, but it was true. So there's that. I wish I had, like, some popcorn sounds to end with.

Nikki: And I got nothing for you. Sorry. So are we ready to wrap up our first Golden Girls episode?

Salina: I think we are.

Sweet TV Pod would love everyone to follow along with us and engage

Nikki: Next up, we're going to talk about Blanche Devereaux. Right?

Salina: Yes. Sorry, I didn't know what to give you, but I wanted to give you something.

Nikki: Just a thumbs up. Just that I'm on the right page.

Salina: That's all. Yeah.

Nikki: So, as always, we'd love everyone to follow along with us and engage. We're on Instagram and Facebook, Sweet Tea and TV. we're on tick tock at Sweet TV Pod. YouTube, Sweet TV 7371. And our email address is sweet tvpod. gmail.com. you can visit our website, www.sweettv.com. and on that website, you can find ways, to support the show from the Support Us page. Or you could simply tell your family and friends about us, rate and review the podcast, wherever you listen. And then we're gonna. Since we're back in the saddle, I will say we're going to invite people back Thursday for extra sugar, But I'm gonna have to have Salina tell us what it's about.

Salina: It's about representation of Asian women in Hollywood inspired by our golden gals. That's it.

Nikki: That's it.

All right. Am I the one that says, we'll see around the bend

All right. Well, we've switched roles this year, so. Am I the one that says, we'll see around the bend?

Salina: Good Lord. I don't know. I don't know.

Nikki: I feel like you should say it so you know what that means.

Salina: I'm gonna say what?

Nikki: What are you gonna say?

Salina: Thank you for being a friend.