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Special Episode: ST&TV Takes On Harry & Meghan, New Netflix Docuseries

Updated: Apr 1, 2023

We really intended to take the rest of the year off and kick off 2023 with Designing Women season 4. BUT, then Netflix and the Duke and Duchess of Sussex so rudely (J/K!) dropped their new docuseries, Harry & Meghan. As dedicated Royal Watchers, we didn’t hesitate watching it. And then, we NEEDED to talk about it. So, here we are with an unexpected drop into your feed with our top six thoughts on the docuseries.


Did we miss something? Do you need to sound off with your thoughts? As long as they’re respectful, not racist, and add to the conversation, we’d love to hear ‘em! Send us a quick e-mail. If we get enough feedback, maybe we’ll revisit later.


Please come back in just a couple weeks when we’ll have an all-new, all-Designing Women-focused ST&TV episode for you!


Come on, let’s get into it!



 

Transcript

Hey, Nikki.

Hey, Salina.

Seamless.

Sorry y'all.

I was messing with Nikki and it wasn't right.

It wasn't right.

Bear witness to me barely hanging on.

It's all going downhill, isn't it?

What I'm trying to say is welcome, welcome, welcome and welcome to Sweet Tea and TV.

And uh you're probably thinking it's the start of designing women season four, but there's not, it's not, not yet.

We're not talking about designing women's season four today.

Today we're meeting to talk about something special, special.

I mean, not as special as designing women.

Let's not, let's not equate, let's not equate.

What we're talking about today is about 35 or so years more timely than normal.

Oh, we're flashing into the future, the future.

Today, we're meeting to discuss our reactions to the new Netflix docuseries.

Harry and Megan.

Nikki tell us who are Harry and Megan.

What is this Netflix?

Who is this docuseries?

Why is my phone name?

Harry and Megan, otherwise known as Prince Harry and Megan Markle, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex who are no longer a huge part of the royal family in professional duties, but rather move to America in a pretty big dramatic split um a couple of years ago and this documentary kind of talks about that this docuseries kind of talks about that.

Um It includes footage that was filmed between 2018 and August 2022 and has flashback footage from I guess the couple's personal archives.

Um It was split, the whole docuseries is split into six episodes.

The first set aired um December eight and then the second set aired on December 15.

So you can see it all now on Netflix, but it's kind of loosely, I think, categorized into chapters almost.

So like the first couple of chapters are really about the start of their romance.

How they got together covers their wedding in 2018 which you and I watched live and floored you the other day to remember was in 2018, floored me to her knees.

She went in shock because she thought it was actually in 2019 just shocked me to my core, but it covers their courtship, their wedding.

Um And then it covers sort of what happened with the royal family um leading up to 2020 into 2020 and then their ultimate escape.

I'm going to put in quotes from the UK.

Um And sort of what the fallout has been from that.

So, um each episode sort of loosely correlates to some of those themes.

Um But it's, it's amazingly done the way it kind of flashes forward to present and backwards to the past.

It was just really well put together.

But that's who Harry and Megan and are and Harry and Megan Megalodon, it's who those people are.

Uh Thank you.

Sure.

That was a nice summary.

So I think some people who do tune in for designing women uh may be wondering, well, what's going on?

Why are we covering this?

Well, lots of reasons.

It's our show that too.

We missed you.

12.

It's been well established.

If you've listened, if you've listened closely that Nikki and I have a certain care, a certain enthusiasm if you will for British Royals.

Yes.

Yes, we know.

And we can't help ourselves.

Is it ridiculous?

Maybe just go with it?

I think we own the ridiculousness.

I'm fine to say that it's not my proudest interest.

Yeah, I just, you know, I blame Disney.

Sure.

And three, if we may be so bold, there is a connection to both designing women and the South.

The British Royal family has been mentioned multiple times during the series, multiple times, multiple times.

I tell you, I tell you now, I can pull the episodes.

I think we all can probably.

Yeah.

And we bet our bottom dollar.

Yeah, I'm speaking for you think that if designing women were still on today, Harry and Megan probably would have gotten it mentioned too.

Definitely.

So because that's how pervasive the coverage has been.

I think that'll be part of what we talk about here shortly.

And then the other thing about the Southern connection is British Southerners.

If they have at least one thing in common, it's an appreciation for tradition.

So there you go.

We're doing it.

Just it.

I had, I texted Salina right after the episodes launched and I said, I just couldn't help myself.

I had to watch the first episode and it was intense.

It made me cry and you said, like it made you want to watch it more.

And so then you started watching it and then we, this is totally in case you can't tell totally.

Last minute, we just sort of got together and we were like, what, what if we just did a quick podcast about it because we just had, I had a ton of thoughts about this.

It was raising all kinds of things for me.

So, and I think that's actually like a nice little segue into what I think is a really important thing to say from the top is that like, you know, designing women is a show and those are characters um who we treat like real people on occasion.

That's true.

That's a very fair point.

But like, I think in this case, you know, I don't think I know we are talking about real human beings, these are not TV, characters and we're talking about people who are trying to live their lives.

I mean, that's very much the crux of the show.

We're just trying to live our life.

And so, so we want to approach that with the ultimate amount of respect.

Um, I, you know, it's not appropriate for us to conjecture about things that have happened behind closed doors, you know, things that we just can't know.

Um, because we're not there, we're not a part of that conversation.

We're certainly not in between anyone else's ears.

Um And so I, we will try our level best to keep it things that are either on the public record or covered within the docuseries just in all fairness to, again, real people involved in this very real story.

Um Do we need to issue a spoiler warning?

Oh, you know, I don't know, a spoiler warning and also a little bit of a trigger warning, we might talk about some things that are mental health, definitely mental health related and mental health adjacent.

So like if any of that is uncomfortable for they may want to specifically suicide, they may not want to, um, may not want to listen in.

But yeah, if you haven't watched and you don't want to know what they share, don't listen.

Right, because I'm not really a big into the tabloid person.

So there were things about this that like, I didn't really know there were um my spoiler alert would be that there.

I didn't think there were very many huge bombshells things that I heard throughout.

For the most part I had heard before this was the, the lens of Harry and Megan, which we hadn't heard before.

Um, but I, I don't think there were that many bombshells, but certainly if, like, if any of this is something you want to watch for yourself, definitely watch it for yourself.

And I would say also watch it for yourself before you listen to us talk about it because I watched the episodes and then just before we did this, I wanted to do a quick cursory glance of the media coverage because I just sort of wanted to know how it was being received.

And even of that started to color my opinion of things.

I did.

I purposely did not look at it because I knew it would start to like, swing what I feel right now.

And I just want to sit in these feelings and I want to feel this and then I want to change my mind like I do with every other thing.

And I think there's value in that.

I think there's value in um uh absorbing something thinking on it yourself and then opening yourself up to other perspectives and hearing what other people said because there were some points that were made that I was like, oh, yeah, I guess I could see that point.

But if you're not going to come back and listen to the podcast, just go and listen to it.

Sure.

Yeah.

Listen, now you do, you people, we're just here, uh so, as spontaneous as we get is that, uh, Nikki and I did a, um, some, some analyses.

Um, we came up with some themes, there were no numbers involved as far as I know.

No, I don't do numbers.

Uh, they're wrong when I do them, you know, this, um, c episode with duck count.

Those numbers are right.

They were loose, loose at best.

Right.

I spent a long time crunching those three numbers.

Um But anyways, so uh we broke it up into themes um so that we could have a little bit of discussion around each of those.

And I think that's really just to control this conversation because because what you don't know is if you ever think like, oh, these two really go off on a tangent, you don't know, you know, nothing, Jon Snow.

We'll tell you about tangents.

So, Game of Thrones.

No.

Um OK.

So we broke this up into categories.

Do you want to kick us off with the first category?

The first theme that hit you?

Sure.

And I actually have um we, we pre shared our themes with each other so we could give it some this morning.

It should be fair like six hours ago and we were working.

Exactly.

Um But I have already reordered based on something you just said my themes and the first theme that came to mind for me watching this docuseries was tragedy that this was, this is, it's so easy.

To forget this is a real family and the dynamics were so real family playing out on the screen, real family with higher stakes, maybe for all parties, for everyone involved.

I mean, you've got Will you and Charles on one side who are, um, they're heirs to this whole institution.

And then you've got Harry on this side who is an heir, but um doesn't have the same um expectations of him that William does and doesn't have the same path forged ahead for him.

Watching those two things diverge.

I think Megan said maybe in the fifth episode or the fourth episode, she said something about um how this is where you really see when family and family business intersect and how messy that can get.

Um And so I just think that idea of tragic, like the whole thing is just so true.

Megan's family and Megan's in Megan's family.

Megan faced a lot like there a lot happened for her.

There was a lot of fallout from all of this.

Um I think that I wanted to say a couple of times.

Uh Harry and Megan both said it didn't have to be this way.

It didn't have to go down like this.

There didn't seem to be a lot of room for compromise, right?

Uh Which is unfortunate.

Um And probably why they kept saying they didn't have to be this way.

Yeah, I think um in the last episode, Megan said I tried so hard.

I tried so hard and that I know she in a former life was an actor and may be an actor again at some point.

So I don't know how much of this is genuine, how much of it is putting it out there for the public to consume.

But it seemed so genuine to me.

And I, I think she really was putting her heart out there.

I think she really tried.

She did the very best she could and to have gone your whole life, she seemed, they had a couple of episodes early on that talked about their early lives and one whole episode almost exclusively focused on Megan and how outstanding she was just as a human being from a young age.

So I bet her whole life she's been outstanding and she's been amazing and she's been, you know, she's overachieve people's expectations of her and then to go into this family that it was never good enough, but it was never about her and she could never be good enough.

But I think she really thought she could win the most that it was all that whole piece of, it was tragic to me.

Yeah, I think so since you've already mentioned the family aspect and that comes to the top first, I just want to say that for me, that was the saddest part that it just ripped all kinds of different parts of different families apart.

Um, you know, brought in like these sort of unknown elements and like, I think most of us who have a family, like I just try and think, just think you're suddenly forced into the spotlight and that really weird thing that happened in your family, something gets pulled.

Like, you know what I'm saying?

Like that is, that terrifies me and that made like that made me feel so much empathy for her um because it was like something totally outside of her control um with the uh with her half sister.

Um and how it wound up, um you know, having some downward effects with her half sister's daughter who she had become close with and all of this, it jeopardized a lot for her uh everything.

And I think um in the theme of tragedy, um I wanted to say the common Terry on the press.

Um was this one of your themes overall?

Uh it is um media and technology, but we might hit on different things.

So go ahead and say your piece, the, the relentlessness of the press um was astounding to me.

And then the other piece of that thought for me is I think often times um celebrities say the stuff you read in the papers isn't real, it's not true.

And so I think in my mind through all of this, I have wanted to assume that the things that are coming out in the press, the bits and nuggets that are coming out about the dynamics within the royal family.

So William and Harry splitting in this like fallout between the two of them, I had been wanting to assume that that was made up for the press.

Um And so it was a little shattering of this image for me to learn that a lot of that was true and a lot of it was directly related to things that people in the um family allegedly from Harry's perspective and Megan's perspective had planted or at least encouraged.

Um And that was really tragic to me.

I think at one point, Harry says he and I promised he being William and I promised each other we'd never pit our comms offices against one another the way the rest of the family has.

Um And he did it and it broke, it broke Harry's heart.

There was a part where um they're talking about uh uh something they were talking about where uh William had planted.

They think William helped plant the story.

And she says, like Megan, Megan says it's his brother and I'm not going to say anything but it's his brother.

And Harry just says that's why I don't live there anymore.

That's why I left the country basically.

And it was so relatable in some ways, you know, like, like you said, we all have those family things that happen.

It was so relatable in some ways.

And it was also just so darn tragic in other ways because I imagine that their brotherly bond that was forged in fire, I believe with their mom dying.

Like there was a lot that brought them together there to see it just all fall apart.

And I had thought so much of it was just made up by the press that made me really sad.

Yeah.

Overall, I would say my overall reaction to the whole docuseries was sadness.

I think they wanted it to be a romance.

They, like, sort of the arc running through every episode was their ultimate beautiful romance.

Prince finds his princess in a, an American actor.

You know, like they tried to make it this romantic thing and it was, their romance seems beautiful.

They seem like they have a true skip to the next.

I know.

I know.

I'm telling you.

I'm bubbling over with thoughts but my overarching a reaction to all of it was just a feeling of sadness.

I just feel sad for everybody because I can't imagine.

I can't imagine.

I, I can't imagine what this feels like and having family fall apart in this way.

But I can't imagine having it play out so publicly and I can't imagine with such high stakes tragedy.

Yeah.

I think, um, I would just have one thing that's like, um, let's just say the documentary, um, hadn't talked about Princess Diana at all.

Uh, which it did.

I don't think you can see this and not think about her.

Yeah.

Uh, they clearly want us to see the parallels between her and Megan Markle too.

And, and some are pretty uncanny.

And what among many is this unhealthy fascination that the media had or, or has had, um, with both of them and it's a fa a fascination that ultimately led to suffering for them and the people in their orbits.

Um, and that, that is also just really tragic and this, this idea that, um, what did they say?

We pay you pose.

And so Harry was explaining that if the, if society believes they pay any aspect of your life that you owe them everything or the British public, right?

Sorry.

Yeah, that's what I meant.

Um that you owe them everything and I couldn't help but think what if we expected that of our US president, like we pay some portion of what, you know, they use federal funds for the White House or whatever and we think the salary and we think, right?

And we think you owe us pictures of your wife leaving the hospital, holding her newborn baby six hours after delivering.

What is that about?

I think that like, it's funny that you thought President because I thought stars and I didn't go stars because I do think there's not have public funding though, right?

Like, so they are in a much better position to protect themselves even though I feel like everyone should be in a position to protect their Children.

And so Rihanna just this week, like jumped ahead of some paparazzi photos, the very first photos of her child, she just, she went to a media outlet and said, please publish these quickly because the paparazzi are about to publish pictures and I don't want them making money off my child.

And that's how we treat, we do treat celebrities in that way, I think because people think like and this is why I chose the president and not celebrities because I feel like it's a little bit more of a comparison.

I think people think of celebrities as um commodities and they think I paid for your last movie.

I went and saw that.

Now, I want to see your kid.

I think that's how people think of the royal family.

And I just think that is so strange.

I think it's strange to think of celebrities that way.

I don't have any interest.

It's strange to think of a royal family.

It's, it's strange to a royal family.

I mean, it's hard as an American, I think, I think that's why I'm so fascinated and we didn't preface any of this episode with, we're American.

Our opinions don't probably really matter that much.

Do you think they might be able to pick up on that with the accent?

I don't know, man.

Um And yeah, I didn't mention also the impact on Megan.

Um She was very specific that she had suicidal thoughts through all of this and very specific that the thought crossed her mind if I weren't here, this wouldn't be happening.

Um And her mom broke down relaying some of that and reliving some of that memory.

And it's just so sad to me that it comes to that after, like you said, we lost Diana in that way.

And we, I don't really have much of a connection to Diana, to be honest, but I've seen the story and I've seen how it played out and it wasn't a good one.

And so I don't understand why we would continue to do that all over again.

And, well, we don't learn right.

And now we've gotten the benefit of hearing Megan's side of everything and Megan has gotten an unfair shake.

I think they pretty clearly laid out.

But Kate also has not had an easy go of it.

And so she's not at liberty to share some of those things.

But what is her experience been?

How has she dealt with that?

Well, they've got to break the wheel.

Um, they've got to break the wheel right now.

They're just cogs in the machine and they're allowing that to happen to themselves.

So, but these are a different category.

Do you want to talk about our next theme or is there anything else we need to cover in tragedy?

Probably, but it's interwoven throughout.

So I probably see more later.

It was also sad.

Um So, so, and see, I, I feel like I should say real quickly that I had, I felt like there is sadness inter laden throughout the entire thing, but also, like, there's hope and, and so, and I walked away with a piece of that too.

And, uh, but let's talk about romance.

It would be so hard to keep us on track.

What you picked romance.

So you kick us off.

Yeah.

I mean, I feel like that was the crux of the whole, that was the through line through the entire document.

That's how they got us, right.

That's how they got you.

And it's how that thing ended too though.

I think in the very last episode was when they interviewed Serena Williams and her call to action was sort of like, I hope day, this family, this family that's fallen apart over all of this will realize that these are just two people in love, which to be honest, felt a little not quite on the nose for the rest of the documentary because it was about so much more than that.

But I think that's how the director pulled it all together is to make this through line be their romance.

The prince finds his princess sort of thing.

Um I do think it was really romantic.

I loved hearing about their early days, hearing about their courtship.

The fact that their third or fourth date was a trip to Africa on safari essentially.

That's amazing to me.

Um I felt like I loved the pieces where we got to see their relationship in action.

They really do seem like a good team.

I have heard a lot of criticisms and I think Harry alluded to this and he did allude to this in the series that like Megan controls him in some way.

He's her puppet.

She wears the pants in this relationship and how misogynistic that is.

I didn't see that at all.

I saw a really healthy couple being strong for each other when they needed to be.

So my husband always says one of us has to be the strong one at any given point in time.

We can't break down at the same time.

Um So some days it's going to be him leading us because I'm struggling and some days it's going to be me taking more of a leadership role in the relationship.

And I think that's what I saw like she came in and he was sitting there playing on his phone and it was Easter and he was like, have you figured out the, um the route and she starts relaying it to him?

And he's like, it makes total sense to me.

Sounds good.

And it wasn't like a man who was being told what to do.

He was like a smart woman who can think on her own and you came up with a really good plan.

Let's go execute.

It was such a mundane example, but I thought it was so I thought it was just so indicative of the relationship when he was planning the flight to the UK after Phillip's death and he's like, kind of falling apart a little.

He's just lost his grandpa.

He's trying to figure out the logistics of all of this.

There's COVID testing involved.

She comes in and she says you get five days, we can get you a flight out this day if you get in there that day.

And he's like, well, can that happen?

She's like, got it all figured out.

I thought that was amazing.

And I felt like that wasn't a woman controlling a man.

It was a person being part of a relationship trying to be strong for her partner.

Control.

Yeah.

Um, do you have anything you wanna add on that point?

Uh, no, not specifically on that.

I'm on a roll.

I have so many thoughts.

I do think on that note about romance and relatability.

I mean, romance and partnership.

I think they were really aiming for relatable.

We're the relatable couple.

We are the normal couple.

I think they missed the mark a few times.

And, but was it the Africa trip?

The Africa trip gave it away?

I don't think it's, well, I mean, she's an actor and he's a prince.

It can only be so relatable, but I'm not sure.

They think that I'm not sure they think we're already in a different level than you believes.

I think they genuinely think they're relatable in some ways they are, like, totally relatable to try to figure out travel plans and whatever Archie's birthday when they were, she was doing that little balloon arch.

And that was so sweet and so realistic.

But like they talk about the, um, staying at Frogmore cottage and Oprah came over for tea and told them nobody would believe it.

Yeah, I was just sort of like, was that?

Ok.

I don't know why three times and I was like, what is he saying?

Oh, Oprah.

Oprah came over for tea and then in the second to last episode, Harry was talking about security and how the royal family pulled back their security.

And he said I did what any dad, what any husband would do.

I got my family out of there and I was like, I get that, but it was on a private jet like in secrecy and I was just like, ok, you're not just like us.

Um, but I will say that it was Tyler Perry who came through for them and he gave a really beautiful interview and seems like a really stand up guy.

He was like, I know nothing about this family but I wanted to support them well.

And on the note of like, um just like the, you said, mentioned Serena, like giving her an interview uh throughout the course of the series.

And like, I was like, I don't, I don't really have anything to go off here except I find her trustworthy and I believe her account.

Um, so I thought it was a wise choice in terms of a pick to be included.

Um, but so I think my things on the romance so this is unpopular, I guess.

But romantic stuff usually reads pretty cheesy for me and I don't always receive it.

Well, um, in shows in life I love it.

Uh, but in shows I'm often like, ok, uh, move it along, guys move it along and, uh, I, I think for me this was how telling I they're illegitimate, their romance seems the romance between them, the fact that that's still there.

I mean, uh, I've been with Casey twice as long as these people have known each other.

Ok.

So, I mean, like you're still babies.

Ok.

Even though, like, I'm younger than both of them also.

Um, by like three hours.

Um, but, uh, but like, I, you know, so part of me is like, well, you guys are still kind of babies in your romance but not really because they've been through so much, so much.

So, uh, but I do think, like, I got swept up with the two of them and I think that speaks to how real their relationship reads and the fact that there is something that's relatable.

I think some of it is just like you can see it in the way they look at each other.

Um, and the way they talk about each other in like really sweet ways.

Uh And, and also in the way they support each other when you've already named several examples.

So uh I'm not sure this is romantic per se, but I this was the closest I could think to fit in a category.

And something that just really struck me was that um it almost feels like this couldn't be real, but it would also feel like a really weird thing to make up, but they released the announcement of their second son on Valentine's Day and then wind up finding out that that's when Prince Harry was announced and Princess Di announced, um, that she was expecting him.

Um, and I just thought that was a really sweet through line.

Um, and I, I didn't know where else to put it and I liked it.

I thought it was Valentine's Day.

It's romantic.

Yeah, it was the best fit.

I thought racism might be a really strange category for them.

Uh, before we get to racism, I had my last point on the romance piece and it's only mildly related, but I, I also didn't know where else to put this.

So.

Hm.

It was supposed to be about their romance and we've talked about, it was about so much more than that, but it's how it opened and it's how it's closed.

It, like it started out beautiful and like you said, I mean, that's a good point.

It ended sort of on a high note, looking forward to the future, a hope for the future for them.

So, again, like, lovely, wonderful, they'll have a wonderful marriage together.

Um I do feel like I have to say I'm a natural skeptic.

Um and I don't always believe things at face value I want to, but I, there's a piece in my brain that's always sort of like.

But what aren't they telling me?

It's your public relations degree.

what's not here?

And to that point, the last couple of episodes felt like a weird spin to me.

They felt like they missed the mark a little bit.

Um It felt like they really wanted to reveal some things about the royal family here.

I honestly don't know and stop short and stopped short and then spun it real quick to get away from that.

So they, their hands weren't dirty at the end of it.

It was just like, well, you have to know all this back story to understand that we're going to be married in the future.

You know what I mean?

Like we're going to move forward from this.

And so it felt like um they sort of revealed things that to me as a someone who watches the royal family news probably more closely than is necessary.

Nothing really felt earth shattering and groundbreaking to me like this all felt like things that have already played out publicly.

Um And it felt like they really were being super defensive and thin skinned about some things that were happening.

Um And the last two episodes really felt defensive in that way and really felt like.

Um the biggest example I had is when they talked about Megan being this amazing, basically, they described Megan Harry sitting next to Megan described her basically as a fantastic pr opportunity for the royal family.

So he didn't say like and Megan has this amazing world view.

She's done these amazing things and he basically said she's a woman of color.

Why wouldn't they want her?

They're facing colonialism challenges.

Why wouldn't they want her?

Why wouldn't they want to parade her out?

That's what that felt like he was saying to me and actually I respect them more for not doing that, for not the royal family, for not taking her as this person that they can parade out and about.

And I feel I felt like those last couple of episodes tried to tie up the bow of romance, but really what it was doing was trying to quickly move away from some of these allegations that they've already shared.

They shared a lot of this on Oprah.

They share and they rehashed Oprah for a really long time.

So they've already shared a lot of this, but they didn't want to end with their hands dirty.

So they moved away from it really quickly and made it about their romance again.

But to me, there was some ego peeking through there that was like, but look how important we could have been to the family and they just shut us away and it just felt like it missed the mark to me.

The only thing I'll say encounter to that is that I'm not allowed to disagree.

I have to, I don't disagree necessarily.

I'm actually thinking like, so I went back and rewatched and I only got through like the first because I, I binged it so quickly that I was like, oh, I feel like I've missed something.

Um And I feel like I really need to rewatch the back half of five and six.

Um And uh so I don't feel like I have a clear picture on that, but I actually had just, I do very clearly remember the part where he talks about how he doesn't understand why the family doesn't see her inclusion as an opportunity.

Um And the only thing I would say is it, it is unfortunate that that wasn't better fused with earlier in the documentary when he talked a lot about her activism and how, and they talked a lot about how she was already involved in a lot of things before they had ever even met.

She has always been passionate about, about women's rights and, and, and a multitude of other things.

And so, um I think those being separated out may have made for like a little bit of an awkward listen.

I also do think that like you know, you don't always know the full context of these conversations as they're happening.

And I do wonder if it's sort of like, um, sometimes even when you're trying to argue for something in your business, you, and that's what this is.

You, if you can't get them to reason to, with the human side, you get them with the cost effectiveness.

And R O I, and I think that is sort of the argument he's making.

I do think in the context of what you're talking about when we're trying to make this Roman um that they might have come off a little jarring to the ears.

I think you're right.

I think it was an interesting choice to separate it from.

It needed a little, it needed a softer cushion, it needed something around it.

And, and also I will say I felt like it was maybe an episode too long.

Like I feel like there was some compression that could have happened.

I feel like we were drawing it out a little bit and I wonder if the director was sort of filling space at a point, sort of what it felt like.

Um But that made me so sad because it hurt to hear him talking about her like a commodity and talking about her or like this, this thing that they should have seen as an opportunity.

Um And when you start talking like that about your partner, it makes me feel like there's a little pr spin happening there even for yourself.

Like look how important we were and you just let us go and I just feel like that self aggrandizing was done so nicely by other people throughout the documentary that to do it yourself.

Felt a little tacky.

I'm not sure if that's on par with me not talking about them or me not being able to talk about them like they're not real people, but I think I would say that to them.

You don't have to sit like our, we're not meeting today to say we loved everything like we don't do that with design women.

No, we don't.

Uh We got to be honest.

Um Speaking of honesty, do we want to talk about the next theme that was throughout the docuseries, which was yes, has this, that was probably so I have never thought Megan was treated exactly the same way Kate was treated in the media.

And I think there have been a lot of things that have come out over the years that have sort of underlined that.

Um So that part didn't surprise me, but I was really, really glad to hear that story told from Megan and Harry's perspective.

Um particularly Megan's how it makes sense, right?

Um So I think there's still people who are like, what is she talking about?

Like, no one's racist against, they paraded out so many examples of really egregious things.

A BBC reporter whose first image that they, like, quote unquote share of them with their new baby.

Is them walking a monkey?

Like, come on, man.

That, that was, that was rough.

Yeah, I mean, I think the underlying racism across this entire situation is pretty irrefutable.

And at one point when they're comparing the headlines for Kate Middleton and her, I've heard that before.

But yeah, like, um, uh, Kate lovingly cradles her bump.

Megan won't stop talk, touching that lump on her front, right?

And then like, uh Megan breaks with tradition with unusable shoe, Kate Middleton wears most flexible shoe.

She starts a new fashion trend.

Um And it's just like, and obviously that is really like, Kate wore flip flops and cargo shorts.

So I'm wearing flip flops and cargo pants and so like, and I know that sounds very level, but when they show you like 30 of them in a row and you're like, dang, what's happening?

I mean, I just think um at that point is when he uh Harry says, if you, if you don't see what we see here, then you're Yeah, I cannot help you.

And my who among us has had that conversation at the, at the Thanksgiving table.

Yeah, I think um it strikes me all the time how um they always talk about the media, always talk about Kate and how relatable she is r lady Katie.

You just like, she's like your best friend, Kate and William are doing things their own way.

What do you make that face for r Lady Katie?

No, I just, I don't think I've ever looked at Kate Middleton and been like, so relatable.

No, like doing things their own way.

So Kate taking the Christmas card photo instead of using um Vogue approved photographer.

Me.

What's his name?

Martin Tarantino or whatever his name is.

But that like, photographer that takes all their pictures.

They're like, she's doing her own photos.

And um this year's Christmas card is them walking down a lane probably on their country's lane prom.

But that part's not mentioned.

It's Kate breaks with tradition and lets the family wear a plaid for family pictures or whatever, all these ways that Kate's breaking tradition and how relatable that is.

But when Megan does it, then suddenly it's like Meghan and Harry think they deserve special treatment.

So they're not going to walk out on the stairs at the Lin Wing.

Whereas I'm sure if Kate had decided not to walk out on those stairs, it would have been looked at a different way.

It was astounding to me.

And I think some of that's entrenched in racism for sure.

They showed some really clear racist things.

Nobody talked about classism though.

And I, I think the two can be related, but I think they're also very separate and distinct.

It's just lots of other, right?

She's an actor, actress, but like, uh she's been divorced.

Um like just like just lots of, she's American.

Oh, my God, American the worst.

Um, and so there's a lot of that.

Right.

Like, just so many things where she's just, she broke the mold, but there are a lot of people who weren't ok with it.

Uh, I also wanted to say that the headlines, um, I thought they did a really nice job of bringing those in to underscore the points that they were making.

Like, i it's just a good documentary work.

You've got the voiceover going, you've got the headlines coming in.

They know that we're, uh, we only handle like so many characters and things being thrown.

They even, like, highlighted it for us.

Oh, good.

Thank you.

Um And, but you know, those headlines, they were riddled with coded and uncoded language alike and the last thing I want to do is rehash all of them because it's pretty terrible.

Um But saying things like straight out of Compton and from the wrong side of the tracks and I mean, they couldn't have been less subtle, you know, um, the social media posts of course, were horrific.

The gloves come off and then the crazies come out and it is, but the media like, stirs it up right in, in a weird way.

Like, it's so strange the slant of the British media against her and to the point of like, um, it's not even fair press like the headlines are written in such an egregious way you're just sort of like, what the heck who signed off on that and why are people reading it?

And sort of like nodding their heads?

I also did feel like, and this is a tangent, but it's something that keeps bouncing around in my head.

Public perception versus media portrayal.

Um They showed them out a couple of times on their tours and I think they addressed this a little bit where, um, she, I felt like the whole world was against her and they all hated her and then she went out and did her little walkout and everybody was really kind to her and like, it's so wonderful to see you.

And so I wonder that was early on though.

Yeah, it was after the um I think the Austra around the Australian tour maybe.

Um But, but what I wonder to that point though is how, where are people on this gradient?

And, and I'll share a little bit about this later, but like, are people really anti Megan?

Really for Megan or in the middle?

And how does that break down?

Because I feel like there are a lot more people in the middle, I think, then you get credit for it.

And I just wonder why can't we talk about that a little bit more?

Are you thinking about, are you thinking about that stat that they use where they did some sort of social media analysis?

Um But I wasn't going there because I thought that would fit with your other theme better.

It does, it does.

We, we, we'll circle back, hang on.

Um I, so the other thing like is like taking a step back, the, the dock itself also argues a really fair point that it's pretty hard to disentangle the media's treatment of Megan from Britain's history of slavery and colonialism.

That's my last point on this section is that the bit in the docuseries about colonialism?

I thought it was beautifully done.

It was enough to feel like it was educating you.

Like if you didn't know some of these things that was super informative, but it was still entertaining, entertaining.

It was very like holy crap and it was, it was given that very slick Netflix docuseries treatment where it was like a little bit like, yeah, it was really nicely done and I feel like um we in the US and I'm curious to know what it's like.

I hope we have some British listeners who can tell us like what it's really like there and what their reaction to this whole thing is because we talk a lot about slavery and hearkening back to the point of our podcast Slavery in the Southern Us and rightfully so we hone in on that.

We talk about it a lot.

I don't feel like we often talk about British colony.

It is amazing to me.

We have as much news about the royal family as we do and we're not talking about the British past with colonialism and slavery.

I, I agree.

I agree.

It's, it's like, it's sort of hard to talk.

Like I wasn't raised in, um, in Great Britain.

I don't like, I don't have that lens.

But if we are, since we said we were gonna go with what we're hearing in the documentary, we're gonna go with what's on public record.

You have historians on here saying that like when you look at the way it's taught in school, it's just like we're good that we're done.

Uh And we're moving on now, we've got our own problems.

We're not casting, not casting stones at all.

And I think that's all going to what is the balance here.

Um But yeah, I agree, but I think that's probably playing into it, right is like, because it sort of gets swept away like it does in places around the US.

Um It, it doesn't get addressed and, but yeah, it does feel like that doesn't get discussed as much.

But I also think the other thing is, is what do they say?

It is, it's um Empire two point oh, and the other, the other, I don't, I don't know who, I don't know all the titles, titles, titles for all these individuals.

But one of the uh talking heads was like, hey, you know, I mean, um it's, it's just better pr and at what point I'm sure you have to wonder this, at like what point are we getting the truth?

And at what point are we getting the pr version, um, that all the time, all the time with everything.

And it's such a, um, it's such a difficult, like wanting to, I, I'm intrigued by the royal family.

I think they are fascinating, fascinating because it's probably because it's not my country and I don't have a vested interest in any of this.

So it's playing out like a soap opera to me.

So I'm intrigued by it.

Um, but it is also this conflict of being like, but what do they really stand for?

And what does it say about a country that they cast out the, the person who could bring a fresh perspective and could going back to Harry?

I mean, she was a good business decision for them.

And what does it say about their values that they didn't bring her into the fold sooner?

I think some of it could be trust.

And I, um, to be fair, she tells, she tells this anecdote about Kate coming over for the first time, meeting Kate for the first time and she sort of stopped short of saying Kate was really cold.

She says like, um, that's not how the Brits do it or something like that.

To be fair.

If Kate truly was meeting her for the first time, I think Kate has to have a heightened sense of like a heightened bar for who she trusts and who she doesn't trust and it's great that Harry likes this gal, like wonderful.

But if they'd only been dating a couple of months, I don't, I don't know that I would be super and I'm not a big hugger.

So and I'm like, oh, look, this is also why, right?

Like you and I never hug.

So some of it, I wonder if it was trust.

Like if Megan felt others because they didn't know if they could trust her yet.

And if there had been a little more trust, I don't know anything like you said, I don't know anything about behind closed doors.

She presented a pretty clear case that she did the very best she could in the situation she was given.

But I do want to give a little bit of a fair shake to the Royals that, I mean, they are some of the most watched people in the world and they were fighting a lot of pr battles at the same time, Megan was coming into the family.

So some of it I think is trust.

Yeah, I think that's fair.

Annie Hosie, racism, poor Megan.

I feel terrible that she had to be the lightning rod for so much of this.

But I do think that if even one person watches that bit about colonialism and it makes them rethink the way that, that society that our society, if it opens their eyes to Harry used the the term unconscious bias.

A couple of times, I still believe a huge number of people don't know what that means.

I read one article and I wish I had and then it was definitely like the Daily Mirror or something.

And literally every part of that was every part like capturing that because I was trying to find one of the historians names and I just googled like something that she had said and um which was the, you could have just rewound Salina, you could have just rewound.

But no, you had to google it because that was the smarter way to do it.

But anyways, like, um everything was in quotation marks and like, and I'm like, you, like, there is so much um built up around these conversations, like, if we could drop, going back to the ego thing, if we can drop the ego and just like, try and like, open yourself up to other perspectives, you know, um If I may, you may this series also shines a light, a light on the other is, well, a few of them, but sexism and I thought, you know, uh something that was really compelling for me was that the way that women in the royal family received the harshest treatment by the media.

And this has been a long standing tradition as well.

And then in Megan's case specifically, I mean, she's essentially blamed for Harry stepping back from his royal office, whatever you wanna call it.

So, um, and that's completely unfair and they even make, they make a point to say he, he was like, ultimately it was my decision, you know, but my wife gets blamed for it every time.

So I thought that was really, um, that really stood out to me as I was, uh, watching, I'm gonna kick this one off because it was mine.

Um, it's all mine, man.

Uh, but it feels mean to make you feet start.

What did you think about my theme?

Courage?

I was and I think we've sort of been subtly hinting at this along the way, but I was just blown away by the courage across every episode.

I think it's easy enough to file them away, or at least Harry, sorry, Harry as just privileged, but I don't care how, how much like um how much they grew up with, not her, but how much Harry grew up with how much um privilege he did have, how, how much access he had to things that, you know, we don't have.

It takes a certain level of bravery to put it out there like they did.

Um And to know that not everybody was gonna be on their side to get vulnerable like they did.

And to be as real, at least as they came across as being, I found Megan to be especially brave and I really admired.

We've already talked about a little bit of some of these things, but I really admired the way she talked about her miscarriage and thoughts of suicide.

Um That is not an easy thing to do.

Not any time, not for anyone.

Uh And I, I think it's incredibly valuable because much like you were saying like that colonialism, colonialism that is gonna reach someone and that is gonna affect them.

And this is too, I actually think this is much more likely to reach people and affect them because I think there are so many people out there who just need to hear that someone, someone else, they're not there, there's not anything wrong with you.

You're just like you just need someone to relate to and she's giving them that.

And I think that is truly special and I think it takes a real deep and profound courage that I don't think a lot of people have.

I think it also speaks so much to her character.

I think they talk, like I said, they had a whole episode that talked so much about Megan and growing up and the type of person she was the type of value she carried the way her mom raised her and what her mom instilled in her.

And I say her mom because she said she was close with her dad.

But it seemed like she spent a lot of time with her mom.

They interviewed her mom and her mom spoke about some of those things and I just was so it's just amazing to me that Harry, um he, he always seemed to me to be this like party boy surface level, very entitled, very privileged sort of person.

Um And so it's amazing to me that, that public perception I had of him.

And he said this in the, in the talk series, like landed this, this amazingly intelligent, mature, emotionally intelligent human being who's brave and willing to go out and be the, the unusual person and it's a very uncomfortable feeling for her, but she's willing, like I had to go through all this and now I may as well put it out there for the world to see and hear and learn from if they can.

And I just thought it spoke so much to her character.

She just seemed like a cool gal.

I think that's right.

Media and technology the worst.

Uh So my very first thought and that just is like, it just, just the whole time that I watch this is media technology the way we use it.

It is just terrifying.

Uh pro as promised that one stat hold me accountable because I'm probably gonna get this wrong.

I don't know if I wrote it down.

It was, it was basically something like they wind up running some kind of analysis on, on the different uh social media messages that are being posted and I'm sure it's like in the millions or something and 70% of the negative comments on social media were coming from 83 accounts, it's like such a small vocal, influential minority.

We are being led around by the nose and we're just letting it happen.

But that's why I wonder though like, where does public perception, like rational human being, perception intersect with what this extreme view is?

If honestly, the very first thing I'm just going to say that reverberates in my head is most people do not care.

This is not what it is when I like.

Ok, so sometimes I'll just do temperature text with some of my friends and like, I don't even know why I tried to talk about it this week this weekend.

But like I brought this documentary up and they're like, I don't know, I don't care.

I haven't watched it.

Yeah.

Like, I don't care, I never will.

Like, I don't care anything about the royal family.

I don't care about to talk about that and I was like, all right.

So I'll be listening to this episode.

Uh We're about to talk about it for an hour.

So, but then we, I do truly believe that some people do are like you and like me and find it absolutely fascinating.

Um But I just, I agree, I think it's like politics here in the US.

Um Like, it's just, I think most people are right down the middle, you know, and I think, uh I would venture that people out, especially people outside of Britain, even though this is something that is covered by media around the world.

I don't think they know every in and out and I do think this would be new news for a lot of people because, like, I just don't think people follow it that closely.

Um, and especially, like, even if you did, like, catch Dribs and Drabs, like, seeing it all consolidated, it just puts it, like, in a different mind, like in a different framing, I think.

And I think it's possible that you could not even the counter to my point about like, what is public perception?

I think it's possible you could not even process that you've developed this opinion about a person.

Um But you, you've internalized these messages that keep popping up in your um in your feed about this person, you've internalized them.

And so when someone asks you, what do you think about Maggie?

And you're like, I don't really care.

She kind of seems like a bitch though, you know, like it's that thing where you're sort of like from everything I've heard.

Um And one of the things they said that was so astounding about the social media stat is her, her sister, her half sister that they go to all these great lengths to talk about one of the, like most of the accounts.

So it's even more astounding that one person that is, I don't know, maybe not totally altogether.

They're fair to a person is like leading the charge and it's just sort of crazy.

And so even if it only partially affects public perception, even if it only sways the things this way, it certainly had an effect on Megan.

And I think that what's interesting to me in something I was trying to articulate earlier and I'm not sure I did it.

I wonder if they maybe paid a little too much attention to the media coverage.

So, in the crown, this most recent season, I think they take great pains to keep the queen unaware of public perception herself.

They go to the point of like removing newspapers and again, the crown fictionalized, blah, blah, blah.

But I do wonder how are William and Kate interacting with social media consumption with news media consumption?

I wouldn't look at all.

I wouldn't look at it at all.

And so that's what I wonder.

I feel like Meghan and Harry are a lot more plugged in.

Um Isn't that what the Comms offices are for?

That seemed like the whole point is to run interference for them.

You know, it's so funny when they said that though I was like, but are they, well, I need a stronger layer?

I think part of what was happening is you have this um split, you're either willing to let your life be controlled by these people or that's uncomfortable for you and you want to know what's going on.

And I think Meghan was so like she lived her own life for so long, she couldn't bear being insulated in that way.

They didn't talk about this in the documentary.

This is total conjecture.

But I wonder if her consumption of media is actually fed a little bit by coming from the US where we're just like normal people, we're all plugged in.

I think the royal family is a lot more insulated from that.

And so I think that actually that might have contributed a little bit if she wasn't able to fully unplug and just not look at it.

Um I think that contributed probably to some of this feeling of like everybody hates me.

No, it's 81 accounts 80 of which are driven by your half sister who really does hate you for reasons that you can't control because she's toxic and that's what family does to you.

Um And I just have yourself Christmas.

I think I just got uninvited for Christmas.

Um But yeah, I think like all that context matters and I feel like I just watched them those last couple of episodes and they're in a different situation now, but they were sitting there the day, um, maybe the day after the Oprah documentary aired, they watched the whole thing together in a screening room is what it looked like.

Then they were sitting there by their phones waiting for this feedback to come in.

They didn't have someone filtering the feedback to them.

They didn't have someone streamlining it into the top.

I don't know, six themes they were reading it for themselves, which feels like a very unhealthy dynamic.

Do you think they might need us to help them?

I would be happy to be that filter for you.

I would be happy to read the garbage and filter through to things that make you feel like a human.

Maybe not great about yourself but like a human because so much of it was dehumanizing and that's a really terrible, I'm not arguing that their reaction to it was bad.

I'm just saying uh I don't know, deactivate your Facebook account and see what happens to your life.

Yeah, I was gonna say so another big thing like we've already talked about it to some extent.

But this um again, it's what the guy called, we pay you pose and this is unwritten set of like an agreement.

But then there is also this idea of um whatever these Royal Press are called.

The, the Roda.

I learned about that for the first time through this.

Yes, I was definitely doing some good wrote it down.

I didn't help.

Um But uh so I, I, you know, I, I'm conflicted because part of me is like, yeah, man, if you're getting public dollars, I can see like wanting, it's like the White House Press Corps.

Yeah, I want see it, having some insight into how those funds are getting.

You better be out there, cutting the ribbons and doing whatever it is that we're paying you to do.

I get that.

But it's gone too far.

I didn't understand that.

Went over my head like, well, and where does it, you know, where, where does it fit anyone to that too?

Where are these dividing lines between the people who are showing up to the ribbon cutting and the people who are going all the way to Canada to follow you in a boat to your private is, I mean, these are two, I don't know, they're very different, but these are two different actions and these are two different buckets and one is acceptable and one is not chasing someone around ski slopes after you're given photo time is not appropriate.

You know, Princess Diana should not had to have gone over there and beg them to stop photoing the Children photographing.

You know, there are celebrities in the US that have had to fight this.

Like currently, um, I'm trying to remember if it was, um, the lady from Frozen.

She exactly.

They've had to fight this a lot.

Like it's soccer games, literally walking over to paparazzi and being like stop.

But there are legitimate media outlets and I count people as a legitimate media outlet because they don't tend to run tab lady type stuff.

Sorry people dot com.

People to magazine, they don't tend to run, um, tab lady type stuff.

Although they certainly have in the past, I think they're trying to turn a new leaf um feed is another one that literally says we don't run paparazzi photos or we don't run photos from secondhand sources or whatever.

So I think this is sort of a cultural shift that's happening and maybe we're a little further along in the US.

But this agreement with the press in the UK like goes way over my head.

I don't understand who is it helping except the media and Prince Charles or King Charles.

Now, it seems like Harry was saying basically, like that thing that played out in the crown where he got jealous because Diana had so much coverage.

It doesn't seem like maybe it's totally fiction.

Then if she's saying something bad happens to the family and another principal and there are only four principles plant a story about them.

Yeah, I mean, maybe it's uh you know, also in the crown in this last season, there was that whole plot point around her yacht being like decommissioned or whatever.

And maybe there is something to this idea of like, if we do all these things, then they'll be easier with us with the purse strings, you know, I, I don't know, but I, I don't think, I mean, my understanding is that actually King Charles, it feels so weird, so weird.

Um It was like one of the first to really pull back from using public funding.

Um And I think that is, well, that's a well documented thing.

I think That's right.

Someone fact check me.

That's right.

I mean, so I think that has been sort of an evolutionary and a progressive thing that's been happening.

But I, regardless babies don't choose who they're born to, so parents don't want them passed around like a fancy handbag.

I think that's ok if you don't wanna look, I know I don't have kids.

Ok.

But if somebody asked me to give birth and then walk out on some front steps when I'm just like needing like, I don't know, some water and a taco or something in my water.

I mean a margarita.

I am going to tell them to kiss my ass.

I can not imagine that literally floors me.

No, you don't have right to my baby and no you don't have right to me 15 minutes after I gave birth.

Sorry.

It depends on how much they're gonna pay me.

Well, maybe the fact the point part of the fact of the matter that's half joke, but part of it is like somebody else is making millions and millions of dollars off of this and then they have to go and ask for money to buy something to wear to a red carpet.

I don't, I don't understand fully how the finances of the royal family work, but it's not like somebody's handing them a million dollar check because they gave them a picture of their child, which is great because that means they're not selling their kid out, but somebody else is making money off that.

That's the part I can't quite, I cannot quite grasp, I don't understand how the Royal Roda is made up of these outlets that are tabloids instead of like in the US.

The press corps is the New York Times Washington post a legitimate outlets that don't hire paparazzi partnering with the mirror.

I can be after what Harry told me about them.

I could be ok with that.

Um Well, so if you ask me my not so hot take, ok, is, um that the British Press should have been the ones that pay for their security?

I think you're right because they made millions off of them.

That's a good point.

There's no way that they didn't make like money, hand over, fist over um, Megan and Harry, there's no way there's just too much out there.

I mean, so like, and I will say on the flip side of that, I think that was probably one of the biggest surprises for me out of the whole documentary.

That's not something that I knew.

Maybe that was public knowledge and that probably wasn't that Oprah interview, but I did not watch that Oprah interview.

I just thought the fact that they took away their security.

Oh, yeah, I understand that there, there's things, this is why I said at the top like, hey, there's things we don't understand.

We're not inside the rooms.

It like we're not, we don't have the arrogance to say one way or another, but it did surprise me.

Um, and it could be that they were like, sorry, you're not part of the, like the ST you're out.

But I can't imagine not protecting my family again knowing what they have been through.

This is where I get confused about how finances work for the royal family because I do understand that they have some element of finance of their own.

So the fact that Charles didn't say that's my son and that's my grandchild.

I'm going to protect them and just pay.

What is it gonna cost, what is it going to cost a guard?

So, like I, I think I learned this like uh doing like research just outside of watching the crown too.

But um uh Queen Elizabeth actually brought in a ton of money with the horse stuff.

Um and all the horse breeding and the racing and everything else that she was involved in, like in that world, which I don't understand at all.

Um And so it's not like there wasn't money right to be put out there for them.

Pick a I know they own some of the, some of that jewelry is the royal family's jewelry.

They could sell some of that and get Harry some security and I think there was some, there, there has to be and this is something Kyle has taught me.

There are three sides to every story, my side your side and the truth, there is some middle ground, there's something happening there that we're not privy to.

And I don't want to like completely villainize the royal family based on the things they're saying because I don't understand the pressure they're up against.

I don't understand the cultural context.

I can tell you that I told a British neighbor, congratulations on your new royal baby after an expat after, um, Kate delivered the third one and he said after she delivered her third child, well, it's a and oh, you're over there after she was, what did they say after she was relieved of her third child?

Um, but I said, congratulations.

He's like, no, don't congratulate me on them and just went off on this tangent about how much he hates the royal family.

So I don't understand the cultural context.

There is probably some element of pr like it's just not going to look good for me to pay for security for my child who in the press looks like he's having a tantrum and escaping our country.

But I think I'd find a way on the side to get some, I'd pull some strings, you know, like I'd give a call to somebody to figure something out.

I don't know.

Yeah.

Not royal.

I got one more category here.

Are you ready for this?

Are you ready?

Progress versus tradition?

So, I'll kick this one off too.

Megan whether you're a fan or not was a symbol of progress for the commonwealth.

And at least that's what they pause it here.

And I'm inclined to agree.

Uh, we've already talked about this to some extent.

Um, it makes me feel and I think this couples, well, with something earlier that you were saying as well, which is like, I think about the little kids that we saw and adults who seemed genuinely excited for someone that they could identify with a little bit to inter such a rarified air if you will and then ultimately had to walk away because it was killing her.

You know, and I think similar to what you're saying, like, what does this say?

What, like what, what did that say about, like, what's going on in Britain?

And what does this say about what this means for?

What ultimately right now feels like limited progress.

I mean, I think they are taking the reins.

I think that Harry knows how to work the media too, just like his mom did.

Um in a way that other people who are part of the royal family don't seem to know how to work as well.

But it just, it makes me wonder like, what, what does this really mean if she truly was a symbol of progress, if it stalled out like that?

And I'm not saying there's an answer, that's just the rhetorical thing that keeps like reverberating through my head as I'm watching this.

Like, so where are we at now.

What does this mean?

Um, Megan coming into that very traditional world really struck some kind of chord with me.

Her having the, you know, the court seeing the walkabout like the pump, the circumstance, these really weird rules that we've heard about that don't mean weird us.

Well, Harry said a bunch of them are made up.

He's like the press even invent rules just to put her on the wrong side of things.

So they're all kinds of like Pantyhose rules, purse rules.

And I wonder how much of that is real.

You know what that made me think, why didn't anybody help her?

And how real was that?

She said there is no class.

I'm like, I gotta tell you if I'm a royal family, the class, the longest serving monarch.

And I'm about to send a woman, an American out to represent me.

I'm giving her some classes on etiquette and royal protocol.

This is why when my like, um cynical skeptical radar was going off and I was like, I don't know about that.

Well, see, to me it told me what they wanted her to fail or at least what I maybe but they sent them on an official engagement to Australia.

So I'm pretty sure with Princess Diana um that it's also like, it's out there in the, like the tale of Diana.

Um she goes and stays with, she was already relate like she was already related to like she was part of Spencer.

Yeah.

She's in that world and I think her grandmother or like great aunt, one of the, something like that.

Um, but someone who was related to her, took her under her wing and taught her the things that she would need to know.

Now, Diana was 19 Mega Mark 35.

Um, I, part of that world, not part of that world.

There are obviously some, some differences here but there is ways for people to have passed along that information.

She didn't have to Google it.

And it does to me feel like the lack of that happening speaks volumes.

I just don't know.

Like, how did she know what sort of things she was supposed to wear on the red carpet?

How did she know?

Like you're not supposed to conflict wardrobe color wise with another principal.

Like she sort of shared some of these inner circle secrets and then said, nobody helped her.

I don't think those are inner circle secrets.

I think I've read that before in a magazine, all of the things that she said.

So then she should have known that she was going to need dearie.

She should have known that.

I think I know that but I have to tell you, I don't know.

I would remember that day because I would have been, I'm just thinking like I was so nervous when I met Casey's parents.

Um and they, you know, they're not Royals and we're right here in Gwyneth County, not having to go to a castle.

I mean, I was just a bundle of nerves and I think if I'm going to meet the queen of England, there's a possibility that even if I read at some point you curse because I know this and there's a certain thing you like, don't touch her.

Like you wait on a whistle and a twirl about or something like, you know what I'm saying?

Like there's these things and I've heard about them.

I know about them that day.

I ain't remember that.

It's just so crazy to me that Harry didn't pull her to the side.

Like I think he did tell her five minutes before they got out of the car.

He said, you know how to curse, right?

You know what I think though, I think they didn't give him more than a five minutes headset maybe.

And also ma'am.

Well, I think, and so that's, that was the part where I was just like after it was clear they were engaged after it was clear she was going to be joining this family.

I am so I can see how it feels like a disconnect.

Kate never called her and said like, hey, should we compare wardrobes or?

And that it hurts me to my core to think that Kate's not at least gracious enough to have reached out and said that.

And so that was probably right, but that was probably the thing that shook me the most about all this is that the Fab four never truly was fabulous.

They were truly never really all that close.

And I, I want to believe that Kate, if she, she's going to be possibly queen consort one day, I want to believe that she had the good manners to reach out and say, Megan, I know you're American and this all seems so weird to you.

You want to come over and have tea and I can walk you through some of the finer points that I learned through my entire childhood of growing up in the upper class of England.

Oh, my gosh bothered me so much.

Yeah, that's fair.

Did you have, I had one more thing.

Did you have anything in this area?

My only other thing is like, actually the way I started this out is like just six big reactions I had.

This is another one where I was like, where does this fit?

And mine is the needle drop for.

She's like a rainbow.

So Megan, like Megan goes at great length again, talking about this thing.

Like she just decided to wear muted colors, like a lot of beiges, a lot of whites, khaki, like all these things still looked fabulous.

Oh, well, she's gorgeous.

So, um, like, you know, and I actually, I think she has amazing style.

Um, but, you know, after they take that step back and they walk away from those roles she comes in and she's finally wearing color and, or like it's that last week and they're doing serving in those last events.

And I just thought that whole thing was beautiful also with any needle drop.

If she's like a rainbow, you have me.

Um I just think that's a great song but the, the thing that was also circling for me when I was watching that is just this reminder that like if anyone or anything insists that you hide your light or that you mute your color or be someone that you're not, you should probably run like hell.

But nobody required her to.

She said that was a choice she made so that she could blend in.

So I think it's a beautiful sense of it.

But that was a choice she made.

I I think but you can't wear the same color as other people who are higher than you in the royal family.

Is that a real rule?

I think it is a real rule not just made up of.

She said a couple of times she wore muted colors because she wanted to fade into the back.

I want to be seen.

I think it was two fold, right?

It was both.

She was trying not to clash with the people who like she was already trying not to step on their toes and wound up stepping on their toes anyway.

So the whole thing is like you're not supposed to overshadow the queen, you're not supposed to overshadow.

Kate Middleton is in this ridiculousness is ahead of her.

She's above ridiculousness if you believe it.

Um And so I think, I think she was just trying to this what we were talking about in the beginning.

She's trying to do her best.

Um And um you know, so if, whether they're asking you or if you feel like you need to, you may be in the wrong situation and then you also should run like hell.

And they can amend my statement.

There's a um an influencer online called, her name is Elizabeth Holmes.

She's a former Wall Street Journal reporter and now she's um almost exclusively a royal family watcher.

And one of the things she does is dissect their fashion and how intentional every single fashion choice and it's not specific to the royal family.

This is like celebrities do this, the president's wife does this.

The president even does this with like the color of their ties, but how influential fashion really is and how easy it is to say it's all surface level, it's just clothes.

Oh my God, they don't need to go meet with another designer.

It's all very strategic.

And so I feel like when you talk about clothes and colors and strategy behind it, you have to mention Elizabeth Holmes in this world because she dissects it so carefully and says, like chose this color for Earth shot for this reason and notice that she's not clashing with the red carpet or the green carpet where she is?

And was that intentional?

It's just sort of amazing.

And I think Megan is very attuned to that.

It's hard for me to imagine that anyone is like, I will go with this lime green on purpose.

Right.

I don't know, Kate.

We, I think Kate or Green to Earth shot recently and she looked incredible, like very shocking in a good way.

I was floored.

But any time Megan wears bright colors, she, she's just meant to wear bright colors.

She looks beautiful in them.

That farewell tour.

The photos are stunning and it's all of them, all of them.

It's just a good reminder.

You got to bring a photographer with you.

I was reading something and it was like uh eight good tips for your next travel.

It's like bring a photographer and trip and I was like, who, who, who is this for?

Oh Jesus, this is kind of silly.

Uh So do we want to go to some questions?

Because I think we had a couple of questions.

I think we do.

My first one is, would you still live one day as a royal?

Just to see what it's like?

I don't know.

I don't just one day, one day seems silly not to.

Right.

If it's just one does it have, is it like Groundhog Day where I pop in and I pop out?

No um implications you come back to your regular life.

No, no, no.

I was gonna say come in and come out and no one knows it ever happened.

Or do I have a lasting life?

Because I don't need a lasting legacy as a temporary royal.

I would embarrass myself.

Let's unpack that, that you're going to make a lasting legacy in a bad way.

I would walk down the steps.

We can unpack that too.

I'd walk down the steps of Buckingham Palace with my skirt tucked into my paint.

Yes.

Or I, I'd pick up the wrong spoon at lunch in front of the, um, I don't know, somebody, the president of the United States, I do something stupid and they'd be like, can you believe she did that?

So, is that going to be in the press forever or is this just like I can really, truly taste test and move on?

No.

Yeah, for sure.

100%.

Why would you do that?

I don't know.

But I'd probably like, do you get to pick something?

Because then I want to go to Christmas.

I also have to say I don't want to be married into the royal family in that circumstance.

That's where, that's the rub.

I think those are the, you talked about the women earlier who are treated so badly.

It's the women who marry in the others.

I don't know what they're supposed to do.

Just marry their cousins.

But like when you marry in that's when you're held to this extra standard.

If I could be a cousin, if I could be part of the family.

Cool.

I'll try that.

Well, and I think it's fair to mention that like, there was art like, if we're going to talk about how some people were like, hey, y'all cool your hills.

We all did our time even though like, it's not the same.

Ok.

But like Kate, she had to get special per like William had to get special permission because what we were really talking about was someone who wasn't like, yes, her parents were rich but she wasn't a part of uh of that upper echelon.

Um And so like, so that was breaking ground even 12, 13 years ago or however long it's been now 11.

Well, they were engaged for a while.

So although when you're royal and you have lots of help those weddings go much faster now.

So, all right, nailed it.

The guys were willing to step in for the day whenever you want whenever you want.

And Eugenie probably run like hell.

Eugenie also seemed like really cool.

That scene where he and her were getting together for the Super Bowl was super heartwarming because it reminded me that even in a toxic family situation, there may still be like a family member that is fun to be around.

He said specifically he missed the Christmases with his family.

The weird, what did he say?

The weird gatherings where we all get together or whatever.

He said he missed that.

So I think Christmas is a good call and I want to be a family member when it happens.

Yeah.

She said she had a great time.

Like she was like, this is wonderful.

And I'm like, well, you're starting with the high bar, the holiday.

Although in my family we know how to take it down like 10 notches.

I not afraid.

I also want to say, um, tangent to your original question.

But you said this sentiment that, you know, our wives had to go through it.

Why shouldn't yours?

One that's just flawed thinking from the beginning, I think.

But also I could sort of see like, if you just know this is how the press treats new people, just bear with it.

The problem I had with that was more when it became racist and when it became overtly racist and they didn't defend her.

That's the part where I was so miffed.

I could see an old family who's been through this a billion times say, like, take your lumps, just take your lumps.

It's going to suck for a little while.

I would love to imagine that Kate called Megan, which clearly she did not because she didn't even tell her any of these things.

But I would love to imagine Kate calls and says, like, this is really going to suck and you're really going to be miserable for a couple of years and I just want you to know, pick up the phone and call me any time it gets too bad and we'll go take trip somewhere.

Why couldn't she do that?

I don't know.

Why did they, why did they have to say that hat looked like a poop emoji?

That was a beautiful hat.

Was it kind of right.

Yeah.

But that just shows the hatefulness of the, I still don't agree.

I still think it was a nice hat and it's beautiful.

I don't see the poop emoji at all and I refuse to now a whole bunch of jerks.

Well, my question for you was, did this change your perception of Harry and Megan?

I think it made me much more sympathetic to their circumstances.

So earlier when I said something like I think it's easy enough to fall in the wind or privileged, that's me.

That's my typical thinking.

Um And then just kind of move on.

But uh they really are like one of the other people said in this um at some point in the series, like they really are in this gilded cage, they're harassed, they're chased, they're obsessed over.

It's scary.

Um That said, and I think we, because this isn't like, uh this isn't necessarily like some kind of love fest.

I think we're in love with this documentary.

Maybe, maybe I think we really enjoyed it.

But like, um it's clearly arguing their side and for them there's no real objectivity.

Um, we don't, uh, we don't hear or get any of the experiences of the other family members either side really.

And I don't think, well, a little bit of me a little bit.

Um, but not the most controversial side, only the people who are on her, on her side.

And so while I do feel bad for them, I, we don't know, we only really kind of know this one part and we're never gonna know unless something really happens, we'll never know what William thinks.

We'll never know what Kate thinks.

They're, they're trained to not do that and they're OK with the status quo um in my mind, conjecture.

Uh But I mean, and also like, I really want to know what happened with her dad because that's kind of like a drop line.

It's just like, like he's just gone.

Oh, like where he is now?

You mean?

Like, we don't like, I think I would still be trying to reach my dad now, but like, or at least figure out what happened, especially if I thought a stranger had a hold of his phone.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, and I was like, but is he kidnapped?

Like, I mean, and I know that's not what's going on, but like, is this like some kind of weird stepmom situation?

I mean, is it literally like a reporter sitting there with him?

Him?

Like that would drive me insane?

I think you're right that it was a dropped line.

I think there's been some conclusions since then.

I think that at the very least she's in touch with her niece again who I believe may not be in direct contact with Samantha Markle, her Megan's half sister, but knows her whereabouts and knows what's going on.

So, I'm assuming some communication with her dad, I, I can identify with dropping all communication after it's been toxic for so long.

So it would not, I wouldn't lose sleep over that if I were her after what he did to her.

It's just so and I think again to your point about how there's like you feel some things missing.

If it was that great and then like it was that sudden, then I don't think it would happen because I totally understand sometimes you got to love from a distance and you've got to put up some boundaries and say I love you.

And I'm so glad that there's a couple of states in between us and I could not respect that more.

But there was something about this in particular that felt like we were only getting so much and that's OK.

That's ok.

It's her story.

But also like you created a series.

Um And then when it comes to his family, I think two things can be true.

I think they can truly feel like, hey, we all went through this, get over yourself.

Like we were just talking about.

But I also think that what Megan experienced was more severe because she was so outside of what, what's quote unquote expected.

And we've already talked about that at great length.

So that's kind of my thought like I do feel a lot of sympathy, empathy for them, depending on what the situation is.

I can't have empathy for all of those things because I haven't been through all of those things.

Um but I think they did a really nice job with that aspect of it.

Um, and I'm interested to see what they do in the future.

Yeah, I think for me going into this just to be totally honest in, in the words of Miss Taylor Swift, the queen of all things.

Uh, it isn't love, it isn't hate, it's just indifference.

That's how I felt about Megan and Harry.

I didn't love him.

I didn't hate him.

We got together to watch the royal wedding in 2018 mostly just because it was another royal wedding.

It seems like it's fun.

It's just something to do.

Not necessarily, I had a very strong tie to the William and Kate marriage.

I don't the best that I can use to describe that and I've done a lot of self processing because I want to make sure to Harry's point, like my own personal bias isn't, isn't shading that in some way.

I just really think it's because my entire perception of Harry has been that he doesn't want to be part of this machine from the beginning.

Like I can remember those flashes of him fighting with the photographers that they were showing.

I remember that event happening.

I remember him fighting with them and that huge news.

I remember the Nazi uniform at a Halloween party.

And so my perception of him has always just been like entitled and doesn't want to be part of this.

So he wants his cake and he wants to eat it too.

Like he wants to be rich and wants to live in high society, but he doesn't want to be royal.

That's been my perception of him for a long, long time.

Fair or unfair.

That's just been what I thought of him.

Megan.

Yeah, she's, she's part to that like I just see them together.

And so I'm like, I'm sure she's fine.

I just don't have a strong feeling.

I know I hate him.

He just doesn't want to be here.

So I don't want to like, engage in that, you know, I don't want to watch him obsessively because he's not party to it.

Like will and Kate seem to be at least game for this, this situation they're in.

Um at least they have a vested interest in it.

Harry's always seemed so aloof to it all.

Um So I watched the wedding is fine.

I didn't really care that much about Megan.

Um And then when they started parting from the royal family.

I was just darn curious.

I just wanted to know what was going on and it was definitely portrayed that, that it was that situation of wanting their cake and wanting to eat it too.

So it was fascinating to me to see their side of it again.

No objectivity.

We only saw their side of it but it sort of tempered what we had already seen, you know.

But if they are serious and I mean, they're, well, they've got the leaked emails and stuff to prove if they were willing to do it for free and still do the engagements and all they wanted was to get the media out of their lives.

Super respect that.

Yeah.

And so that's, that's what I'm coming around to.

This is my long winded way of saying it, it has changed my perspective on them a lot.

I still think there were some flaws in this.

I still think some of this is ego driven.

I think some of this is like a little bit, a little bit of a cash grab because they need the money now.

Um And I feel like I, I have a little bit of a reaction to um putting your family business out there for a family that is notable for not putting their family business out there.

Like there's an element of toxicity to that.

So it feels like you're fighting toxic with toxic in a way that's not my total reaction to all of it, I feel like some of it was definitely justified and warranted but some of it felt a, a little icky somehow.

Um, but I'm glad they did it because I feel like they needed to get it off their chest.

I feel like they needed a chance to tell everybody, like she said, maybe in the very beginning we're doing this in our words and it feels better for us to do it than someone else to do it.

And I, I respected that.

So I think it changed my mind about them a lot.

Um I think I can definitely, I definitely feel sorry for them in a lot of places.

I feel sorry for the royal family because they can't share where they are in all of this.

It's not ever gonna be clear but they not just extract themselves though.

Like, what do you mean?

You could, you could just like not royal.

Oh, Harry and Megan, all of them.

I think it works for some of them.

I, I think, I think some of them genuinely believe that they're ordained by God to be in this position.

And I don't think you just extract yourself from that.

I don't think I have for a moment thought that like anyone born in the last 60 years would think that they were ordained by God based on when they were born and who they were born to.

That blows my mind.

I think that's sort of the whole thing.

The reason they're royal is because the reason she, I, I guess now King Charles is head of the Anglican church is because they're ordained, they're chosen by God.

So I think some people genuinely believe that.

I think some people are like me.

I was gonna say, I think some people in the royal family are sort of like, yeah.

Sure.

That seems fine.

That, that sounds great.

I'll take that.

Yes.

Yes.

Ordained by God.

Absolutely.

And then I think like people like Harry and Megan see it as not really sure where my role is in all this because I'm the spare.

That's going to be the title I think of his upcoming memoir.

So I'm going to use that word because I think he's, he's owning that word himself, but I'm the spare.

So I understand where I fit in all this.

How can I do what the ideal place to be?

Can I?

So, and I think he does too and I think that's why he's willing to do it for free.

He's like, you mean, I can go chase down all my favorite causes and I can make a difference in the world.

I think he's done a lot of work on himself and I think he's really, really tried to be a good person and I think he wants to go do that, go do that in the world.

And so I think, but he needs the royal piece of it to be able to do those things.

Exactly.

Yeah, it's challenging.

It's a real Royals.

They're just like us.

Am I?

Right?

I've never felt more you eye to eye.

Except for again, I'll say it, the family thing.

I get that up.

Family got it.

And it just keeps happening.

Just no money though, no money attached to it.

Um, just not yet anyway.

Just totally screwed.

And with that, this is really fun.

I'm glad we finally talked about it.

I still, I feel like I have, I'm bubbling out thoughts.

It is really, I told Kyle, I said I got to get together with Salina Tuesday night and he was like, really you guys Christmas.

He's like, you guys don't want to do that like next week when you're on vacation.

And I was like, no, I need to get some of this out.

Like I need to stop talking to you about it because to be fair, he engages, he really God bless him.

He engages with me, but I can tell it's not his thing.

So I just needed to get it out.

It might just be you and me just listening back to this.

What do we think?

So, thank you, everyone for listening.

For real.

For real.

The next time probably that we get together is going to be designing women season four episode one, right?

Unless something else comes out.

I mean, they do have a new documentary dropping on New Year's Day.

But it's unclear what that's about who does Megan and a another one.

It's not clear.

It's about them.

It's, the title is Live To Lead or something.

And it's inspired by a quote by Nelson Mandela.

It seems like it's unclear what role they play in it, although it seems they appear in it.

Oh, I don't know.

Anyway.

So it's probably going to be season four episode one when we come back next.

So in the meantime, we'd love everyone to follow along with us and engage Instagram and Facebook at Sweet Tea and TV.

Our email address is sweet Tea TV pod at gmail dot com.

And I'm going to put a little plug there that if there is by chance and who's British and listening or has very strong opinions about all of this that's listening, like drop us an email.

I want to know what other people are thinking.

I don't know how we'll handle it on the show if we'll come back to it or whatever.

But as long as it's not racist, as long as it's respectful, I want to hear it because I want to know what other people's perceptions were specifically because it was my question, like if it changed people's perception of Meghan and Harry, but like, I also just want to sort of know pulse check, where are we on this whole thing?

So our website is www dot sweet tea TV dot com.

There are also several ways to support the show, you can tell your family and friends about us, you can rate or review the podcast wherever you listen.

And then there are some other additional ways on the website from the Support Us page that you can support us.

In fact, we have a Patreon account where we post exclusive content or sometimes we'll do extended episodes.

If we cut a bunch from the main episode, we'll do an extended episode.

So all good stuff we're cutting by the best stuff.

We're cutting it because it's good to save it for our Patreon.

And so, in fact, Miss Selina, since the last time we recorded, we welcomed a brand new Patreon to our circle.

Hey, Candice, we're so happy to have you join us.

Thank you for your support and, and I, I didn't write a song, uh, but I'm going to sing a song.

Ok.

Is it going to be, what is it like color of the rainbow or whatever you said?

I think that would be very difficult although you, you deserve it.

Is it the name game?

I can't just put Nikki.

See, we didn't, we were spontaneous on something.

So me, Candice, Candice can, can, can, can I was drinking water?

Sorry, she was over there just drinking on a personal note.

I've had the pleasure of messaging with Candace several times.

You are always so kind and thoughtful.

Please continue to reach out any time we love hearing from you and I do screenshot and send to Nikki.

So we try and share when we hear we uh, manage different things and look at different things.

So we try to keep each other in, in the loop and we appreciate you.

Thank you, Candice.

We're glad to have you here.

So we'll see everybody in a few weeks for the start of season four.

You know what that means?

What does it mean?

Salina?

It means we're not doing extra sugar and we'll see around the bin.


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