We had so much to say in our take on Designing Women S4 E17, which we called Meet the Stillfields, the transcript needed its own post! So here it is:
Salina: Hey, Nikki.
Nikki: Hey, Salina.
Salina: And hey everyone, and welcome to Sweet Tea & TV.
Salina: Hey y'all you you're like on a 90s bender, right?
Nikki: My entire life is a 90s bender.
Salina: I feel like okay, so I've been meaning to ask you.
Salina: Okay.
Salina: And I saved it for here for several reasons.
Salina: Like, we're busy gals, got a lot going on.
Nikki: Crazy busy gals.
Salina: I can't be asking you what documentaries you've seen during the middle of our work day.
Nikki: That's true.
Salina: I could try, but I don't think you're going to answer.
Nikki: Please don't.
Salina: Yeah, don't do it.
Salina: So have you seen it's pretty new.
Salina: It came out in August, the Woodstock 99 documentary on Netflix.
Nikki: I have not.
Nikki: But I've been reading about Carson Daley sharing some of his experiences.
Nikki: And I saw this person on TikTok who is young in their early twenty s, and they were like, I feel like I've heard of Woodstock.
Nikki: No, that's a lot.
Nikki: It was a Peloton instructor and she was like, I feel like I heard about what Woodstock was like, but I had no idea.
Nikki: I remember watching these things on MTV and I remember the chaos that was caused by that limp biscuit performance.
Nikki: So I should watch it, but I haven't.
Nikki: What you got for me?
Salina: Well, it's so weird because okay, we were definitely younger, right?
Salina: I mean, we weren't quite in high school yet.
Nikki: I wasn't supposed to be watching MTV.
Salina: Well, I didn't mean too young for MTV.
Nikki: Oh, no, that's where I was.
Nikki: I wasn't supposed to be watching it, but I certainly did.
Salina: Okay.
Nikki: I knew all about it.
Salina: You're so bad.
Nikki: Cover your ears, mom.
Salina: It's just weird.
Salina: I kind of remember it, but for whatever reason, maybe I was just in.
Salina: And it's not like I didn't listen to the different music acts that were there that year.
Salina: For whatever reason.
Salina: I just don't really remember it in this solid way that I remember, like Columbine, right?
Salina: Like the world stopped for me when that happened.
Salina: This is just very faint.
Nikki: This was different.
Nikki: And I think I will say the reason I think I know this is about this, and everything I know about this is from MTV News.
Nikki: That's also, incidentally, how I found out about Columbine.
Salina: Right?
Nikki: I would come home in the afternoons and turn on the TV when my parents weren't looking and watch MTV news.
Nikki: So I remember the news coverage of Woodstock, the news coverage on MTV.
Salina: I don't even know there I don't.
Nikki: Know how much national mainstream media coverage it got.
Nikki: But I mean, I also wasn't watching the mainstream media at that time.
Salina: Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because MTV was involved in several different ways.
Salina: So I think they were there.
Salina: I don't think they were there live most of the time until things got really bad at the end.
Salina: I think they yanked them out.
Nikki: Oh, that's what Carson Daley was saying.
Nikki: He said at one point he was like, offroading in a field in some random jeep.
Nikki: They were just trying to get him away from it.
Nikki: He said he genuinely feared for his.
Salina: Life probably around the time they were burning it down.
Salina: Oh, my God, that was so intense.
Nikki: Give me some to break me burning things down.
Salina: That's pretty good.
Salina: But also, MTV was like taking content and I think it was specifically being put on pay per view.
Salina: And this was like I'm going to use the term sexy content, but I wouldn't describe it as sexy.
Salina: But what I'm trying to say is.
Nikki: Like, Girls kind of wild woodstock editions.
Salina: A lot of penises.
Salina: No.
Salina: Yeah, it was like a lot of yeah.
Salina: And I'm pretty sure it was MTV that was doing it anyways.
Salina: Somebody was definitely involved in that and doing the pay per view side of it.
Salina: So I don't want to this is.
Nikki: Why my parents didn't want me watching MTV.
Salina: Let me fact check myself.
Salina: You all need to go watch the documentary for yourself.
Salina: I'm going to see who was behind pay per view.
Salina: There was also I wanted to say this has just been really in the culture again lately.
Salina: And I thought it was because we're all doing a lot of naval gazing with the 90s.
Salina: Right.
Salina: We've even talked about that here.
Salina: Right.
Salina: But actually it turns out it's because a bunch of people were asked to sign NDAs afterwards and they expired so they can talk.
Nikki: I didn't know that.
Salina: Yeah, me neither.
Salina: In fact, I didn't learn that from the documentary.
Salina: I learned that from reading a review of the documentary.
Salina: It is juicy.
Nikki: I am not a huge documentary person.
Nikki: When I have time to watch TV.
Nikki: I'm watching Designing Women all the time, of course, but I want to watch something light hearted lately.
Nikki: I told you recently, I've been watching The Office lately just to sort of take my mind off things.
Nikki: But I did watch the Nickelodeon documentary that was on Hulu.
Salina: I want to say Orange Years or.
Nikki: Something gave me all the feels.
Nikki: And this one, I imagine, would not give me the same nostalgia.
Nikki: But I wonder if I'd remember some things and be like, that's what was happening.
Nikki: I do love a drama.
Salina: Yeah.
Salina: So what I'd like to do is give you a taster.
Nikki: Okay.
Salina: Okay.
Salina: Because I don't want to ruin it for you.
Salina: I don't want to ruin it for anyone else.
Salina: But I want to entice you all to go and check this out because I do think you would enjoy it.
Salina: Nikki.
Salina: I think some listeners will as well, especially if you grew up on this music.
Salina: Around our age, there's such an interesting juxtaposition drawn between the original Woodstock and 69, which is like one of the most iconic events of that time, if not the most iconic.
Salina: I think it's like the number one thing that people think about when they think about the 60s.
Salina: It showcases how the culture has changed.
Salina: How the music is different between those two young people have changed.
Salina: And it was just really crazy.
Nikki: Now.
Salina: That'S 99.
Salina: That was we're angry a long time ago.
Nikki: We're an angry group.
Salina: It's true.
Salina: Really angry.
Salina: And it was just kind of the perfect storm for a perfect disaster.
Salina: So to see some of that unfold, and I think each day is its own segment in the series.
Nikki: So you sort of watch this falling apart, this car crash in real time.
Salina: The train wreck, if you will.
Nikki: Bigger train wreck.
Nikki: Thank you.
Salina: Which is what it's named, all right.
Salina: And it is aptly named because you kind of want to look away, but you can't.
Nikki: You can't.
Salina: You can't look away.
Salina: I'll stop there on that part.
Salina: But I did also want to say something.
Salina: This is Nick Allen, a senior editor@rogerebert.com, said, this is where I found out about the NDA.
Salina: So they hired a bunch of popular acts who are paid to be angry.
Salina: Corn limp biscuit kid Rock And then they gave thousands of concert goers numerous reasons to be angry at them.
Salina: Like, no water, guys.
Salina: No water.
Nikki: I forgot.
Salina: And then they gave them candles.
Salina: They're like, here's some fire.
Salina: So they were, like, charging $4 a bottle of water.
Salina: This is 22 years ago.
Nikki: Oh, my God.
Salina: 323 years ago.
Salina: I'm not good with math, so that's probably like, a $12 bottle of water now.
Nikki: Oh, man.
Salina: And these are all kids.
Salina: There was probably three people underneath the age of 25 there, and they were putting on the concert.
Salina: So it was also like people who were involved in the original Woodstock were involved in this one.
Salina: And to see how it went from peace money to, I mean, peace and love and no war to money.
Salina: Real interesting.
Salina: And this is the last thing I wanted to say on it that I found really interesting as I sat there and watched this just total dumpster fire, which was it's important, I think, that we all keep our nostalgia in check.
Salina: I think for any generation, it's easy to look back 20 or 30 years with these rose colored glasses, but the truth is, there is no human time on this Earth without flaws.
Salina: And so for me, it was a really good reminder because I think a lot lately, it's been like, remember this and remember that.
Salina: And I'm like, do you remember this?
Nikki: Well, and context matters, right?
Nikki: So I think about this a lot with the Disney kids who have grown up and come out and said things like, this morning, I just happened to see a bit of Demi Lovato's documentary about the night she overdosed a few years ago.
Nikki: And so I think about her a lot.
Nikki: When I think of that group of people, I think about Miley Cyrus, hannah Montana.
Nikki: And so at that point in our lives, it was all roses and rainbows.
Nikki: It was perfect.
Nikki: This was so great.
Nikki: These were my favorite shows for them, and in their world and their context, it was very different.
Nikki: And so I felt very insulated and safe from Woodstock.
Nikki: So what I knew next on MTV was, oh, TRL is coming on.
Nikki: Is NSYNC going to hold on for another week?
Nikki: And so it still was like, I had the context that this bad thing is happening, but that's a million like that has nothing to do with me.
Nikki: So in my mind, that time period is still wonderful because it was the glory days of TRL, but that's because that stuff was happening for someone else.
Salina: Sure.
Salina: Well, my transitions aren't good.
Nikki: I got this one.
Nikki: I got this one.
Nikki: And that was something that was happening for someone else.
Nikki: And in, like, this episode, we've got something happening for someone else.
Salina: Oh, that's strong.
Nikki: So this week's episode is Designing Women season three, episode 17 The Engagement.
Nikki: Salina was not happy with Hulu's episode description or IMDb's.
Nikki: So this week we have Salina's description of the engagement charlene accepts when Bill pops the big question.
Nikki: But will his family accept Charlene?
Nikki: Also, Mary Joe is reintroduced to the dating scene after she and JD.
Nikki: Call it quits.
Nikki: Air date March 27, 1989 we're calling this one Meet the Still Fields.
Nikki: It's written by LBT.
Nikki: And Pamela Norris, directed by David Trainer.
Nikki: General reactions.
Nikki: Where you want to start?
Nikki: What would you like to pick apart first?
Salina: Well, I think this one sort of made me think about how I would feel if I was in Charlene's shoes in this episode.
Salina: And one of the things I was thinking is, like, how terrified I would be to meet Casey's parents if the first time was after we were engaged.
Nikki: How strange is that?
Salina: Yeah.
Salina: This is, like, a terrible amount of pressure.
Salina: First dinner scene with Bill's aunt and mom was really hard for me to watch, and I think it's because Charlene was just doing such a good job, but I think I could just fill her anxiety, and I just hated it so much.
Nikki: Yeah.
Salina: And then also, I just have to say that Bill's aunt sucks.
Nikki: She's pretty terrible.
Salina: Yeah, she was just, like, pulling out all the snobby stops, getting Charlene's name wrong, bringing up another woman she felt was a better match for Bill, including her impressive breeding and education, and then having the audacity to call Charlene cheap to her face in that last dinner scene.
Salina: Get out of here, lady.
Salina: So I just I was not filling her.
Salina: What what about you?
Nikki: I think we talked about this actually a little bit.
Nikki: I preempted myself in our last episode, but I feel like I'm getting whiplash from the women's relationships.
Salina: Okay.
Nikki: So I feel like I didn't see Mary Joe's breakup coming at all.
Salina: I just have to tell you just stop right there.
Salina: I need you to know what my first general reaction says.
Salina: Just this first sentence.
Salina: It says Mary Joe and JD.
Salina: Broke up.
Nikki: We talked about this in the last episode.
Nikki: That for me, I felt like they were headed that way, but I didn't see it coming before that episode.
Nikki: They never discussed any problems they had.
Nikki: They never discussed anything.
Nikki: And then Charlene and Bill seemed fine.
Nikki: They seem fine.
Nikki: I didn't see an engagement coming.
Nikki: I think it's fair to assume, I think to yourself, not out loud to other people, but I think it's fair to assume in this instance that that's probably where it was headed, but it just felt like it came out of nowhere.
Salina: That one felt less egregious to me.
Nikki: Yeah.
Salina: But, yeah, I guess we maybe could have used one more episode to give us a little bit of transition, especially since I think the last Bill Charlene centric episode, they were like, on a break, right.
Nikki: And it was super romantic when they came back together, but I don't know, we didn't get any of that build up.
Nikki: So it's just so odd that there are so many episodes of this show and we get such a tiny little sliver of their relationships.
Nikki: It feels like they could even throw in a line every episode about how things are going.
Nikki: Right.
Nikki: And so similar to that, I feel like we didn't get a chance to process JD.
Nikki: And Mary Joe breaking up.
Nikki: We started doing this in our last episode, so you may feel like you've given me your full processing, which is is it such a bad thing?
Nikki: Is that still where you stand?
Salina: So when I first watched it, like this episode, it was totally out of left field for me.
Salina: I was like, wait, what?
Salina: Hold on.
Salina: I don't understand.
Salina: I didn't know that was going to happen in this.
Salina: We weren't going to see him again.
Salina: I mean, I could have seen it going in that direction of phasing him out of the show.
Nikki: Right.
Salina: But not like this.
Salina: Now, on rewatch, and I mentioned this in our last episode, I did really start to see that ambiguity that I think you also picked up on.
Salina: Yeah, I like that.
Salina: I said the word twice and I still got it wrong.
Salina: It's okay.
Salina: I'm going to move on.
Salina: You're going to move on.
Salina: We'll all move on anyways.
Salina: And that last conversation, I think you did a better job getting that the first time.
Salina: It took me another time to see that that relationship was cooling a little bit.
Nikki: Salina, how many boyfriends front porches did you show up on post breakup?
Salina: Well, first of all, there were very few boyfriends after that image of you.
Nikki: Being like, hey, are we going out tonight?
Nikki: Pluto, we broke up six months ago.
Salina: Wait, what?
Nikki: I said I'll never see you again.
Nikki: Oh, I thought you meant tonight.
Salina: Oh, so awkward.
Salina: Oh, I'm sorry.
Salina: So when you said we'll always have Kroger, what you meant was go kick rock.
Nikki: Exactly.
Salina: Yeah, like, we'll always have it right.
Nikki: Friday night tomorrow?
Salina: Yeah, I'll see you on Friday.
Salina: I don't know.
Salina: I was confused, so that's kind of my I have some more thoughts about it.
Salina: I can go into it now.
Salina: I think for me, this was a dislike, because I just didn't feel like they handled his exit appropriately.
Salina: He's been around a long time, and I think he deserved a little more fanfare.
Nikki: Yeah, I agree with that.
Nikki: And I felt like we, as the viewers and fans, deserved a little bit more a little bit more of a show on that one.
Nikki: We deserve something more.
Nikki: Yeah, we deserve to see them on the rocks fine.
Nikki: For a couple episodes and then have it fall apart over something not invented and contrived.
Salina: Yeah.
Salina: You got more or are we on to strays?
Nikki: I have one more, although I'm starting to wonder if all mine are just straight.
Nikki: My thoughts just generally are stray.
Nikki: I'm confused about age and social norms, and I'm not sure if it's a difference of the now or what, but so they imply that Kenny is between 25 and 30.
Nikki: I don't have the line written down, but somewhere that's implied.
Nikki: And he's throwing keggers and sleeping on the floor with three roommates.
Nikki: Is this normal?
Nikki: Like, late 20s behavior, especially in the south, 30 years ago?
Salina: I think it feels more normal now.
Nikki: Yeah, right.
Salina: Yeah.
Salina: I think it feels like a misstep for then.
Nikki: It feels so strange.
Salina: I didn't even think about that.
Salina: Yeah, I missed that.
Nikki: I think I know that I married relatively young.
Nikki: I think you married relatively young.
Salina: 27.
Nikki: Okay.
Nikki: You were old.
Nikki: I was 23.
Salina: You were 23.
Nikki: Yes.
Nikki: 2010.
Nikki: No, 25.
Salina: Okay.
Nikki: 25 still feels young.
Salina: So I was I was his age.
Salina: The average age is 27.
Nikki: To get married for a woman, I just I just felt at odds and and like, I was a 2010 bride, you know, not 1980s in the south.
Nikki: It's just weird to me.
Salina: Yeah, it's a good point.
Nikki: Only mildly related.
Nikki: I really love that they were all drinking out of red solo cups.
Nikki: I think it really shows the enduring nature of the red solo cup at a party.
Salina: It's handy.
Nikki: Long live the party cup.
Nikki: I wish I was drinking out of window.
Salina: You can be.
Salina: I have some downstairs.
Salina: Oh, there you go.
Salina: And a ping pong.
Salina: A beer pong raft somewhere in the whatever you want, you can have it.
Nikki: So that was my last general reaction.
Nikki: Can you imagine me going more stray than that?
Nikki: Because I can.
Salina: Well, I would love to hear you go more stray.
Salina: Take us there.
Nikki: Body language.
Nikki: Physical humor is like, that's my love language.
Salina: Okay.
Nikki: And I thought when Charlene told everyone she was engaged and Suzanne whips out her jewelers loop and starts inspecting the ring so easy to miss that.
Nikki: Like, if you're multitasking or not paying attention to the show, but when you catch it, it was just so on brand and the physical humor was top.
Salina: Notch, semi likes.
Nikki: And only mildly related.
Nikki: Again, tangential.
Nikki: Tangential.
Nikki: The comedic timing and script writing in this one.
Nikki: So Julia got on her high horse about the elegance, breeding and grace of Charlene's friends and associates, herself included, then asked Mary Joe what she wanted her to do.
Nikki: And Mary Joe says, go to a keg party with me.
Nikki: And it was just so perfectly timed and so perfectly juxtaposed with one another that I just fell out on that one.
Salina: Yeah, it was pretty good.
Nikki: That was a good one.
Nikki: Do you have one about maybe Aunt Phoebe?
Salina: Yes.
Nikki: What did you find out about Aunt Phoebe?
Salina: Well, hold on.
Salina: Find out.
Salina: Did you have to look or did you know?
Nikki: No, I knew.
Salina: You knew?
Salina: Right.
Salina: I mean, that's the most memorable face maybe ever.
Nikki: Yeah.
Salina: I think she's wearing both the same outfit and hair.
Salina: But it's the case worker from Mrs.
Salina: Doubtfire.
Nikki: Mrs.
Nikki: Cylinder.
Salina: That's right.
Salina: Yeah.
Salina: I didn't remember her name.
Nikki: Did you read that she was born in Memphis, Tennessee?
Salina: No, she's southern.
Nikki: She got her start acting, actually, here in Atlanta.
Nikki: Her husband was an executive for Georgia Public Broadcasting.
Salina: Well, there you go.
Nikki: There you go.
Nikki: Yeah.
Nikki: Her voice immediately that's other thing, the.
Salina: Voice really gives it away.
Nikki: Yeah.
Salina: So, yeah, I was wondering, because I also know that you love Mrs.
Salina: Doubtfire.
Nikki: Sit there with Mr.
Nikki: Mom.
Salina: It's just a Pantheon classic after classic.
Salina: So Bill having the band play I'll Be Seeing You the night they got engaged.
Salina: That's a throwback to the episode where they met and first went on a date last season.
Salina: So that was one I had cheese and crackers.
Salina: I wish I had pulled this photo up, but do you happen to remember what Charlene is wearing at that first dinner?
Nikki: Yes.
Salina: Why?
Salina: Does she look like a character from Anne of Green Gables?
Nikki: It looks like is that her idea.
Salina: Of what fancy is?
Nikki: It looks like Casper's mom's wedding dress in the movie.
Nikki: Casper that he gives her for the Halloween party.
Salina: I mean, it is really singular.
Nikki: It is something special.
Nikki: It's very matronly.
Nikki: It had a high neck.
Nikki: Right.
Nikki: And sort of a doily on the front.
Salina: Like any good Anne of Green Gables character.
Nikki: Right, too.
Salina: That one.
Salina: Really?
Salina: Right.
Salina: I had a couple of strays from that kegger.
Nikki: Oh, okay.
Salina: So it should be party music in there.
Salina: I should have probably recorded this so you could hear it, but it sounded like jazz had a baby oh, no.
Salina: With 80s elevator music.
Salina: And I was like, what?
Salina: In my head?
Salina: I'd already changed them to college.
Salina: I think I just pushed that out of my head that they had said late twenty s or whatever.
Nikki: Right.
Salina: And so it was like, what?
Salina: Kegger is playing elevator music?
Salina: Does it make any sense?
Salina: I think it just goes to show between maybe people are out of their element like trying to write like a 25 year old.
Nikki: Yeah.
Salina: And then in that same scene, julia gets a call from Charlene at the Keg party.
Salina: Sure.
Salina: How does it make any sense?
Nikki: She said, I knew it had to be you because you're the only one I gave this number to.
Salina: Oh, God, I'm glad you called.
Nikki: Or you're the only one who knows I'm here.
Nikki: Maybe, is what she said.
Nikki: And then she turns to Mary Joe and says, the only one who will ever know I'm here.
Salina: But then how did Julia?
Salina: That's a good question.
Nikki: I can't help with that.
Salina: We're trying too hard.
Nikki: I can't help with that.
Salina: That's my last stray.
Nikki: So I have one more stray, which is that I finally gave up and I just looked up Bedlington's, which is what they were talking about.
Nikki: The here woman not in the references, right?
Nikki: Yeah, it's stray man.
Salina: Talk about it.
Nikki: Come back to it in references, too.
Nikki: It's a type of terrier.
Nikki: Wikipedia said it's been said to resemble a lamb.
Salina: Oh, that's cute.
Salina: I didn't look up what they look like.
Salina: I will tell you, when they had that conversation, I was like a horse.
Salina: Yeah.
Nikki: I thought it was a horses.
Salina: Right.
Nikki: I thought it was a horse of some kind.
Nikki: And I looked it up and I looked at some pictures, and the first picture I saw, I would have said, and I actually had it typed in my notes, that I think it is very generous of someone to say, this looks like a lamb.
Nikki: That first picture I saw was not the world's most adorable dog, so don't.
Salina: Get you a bedlington yet.
Nikki: Then I saw more pictures and some of them are very cute.
Salina: Oh, really?
Nikki: Some of them are very I love a terrier.
Salina: The cut certain cuts are not good.
Nikki: And the snout.
Nikki: The snout?
Nikki: Oh, I see what you're saying.
Nikki: Yeah.
Nikki: I just think he had an unfortunate face.
Salina: Yeah.
Nikki: That's a horrible thing to say about a dog.
Nikki: I'm sorry, pups.
Nikki: It just wasn't maybe it was not a great picture.
Nikki: Maybe it's a weird angle.
Nikki: Their snout sort of comes out like this, and if you get the wrong angle, it looks a little like a dolphin snout or something.
Nikki: I don't know, there's something going on about it.
Nikki: But they're very exclusive dogs for the exclusive kind of person, I think.
Salina: Oh, are we going to talk about exclusivity?
Nikki: Oh, this would be a good place to do that.
Salina: How about, we're so good.
Salina: So can we do a little Salina sidebar?
Nikki: Yes, it's a sidebar.
Nikki: Salina sidebar.
Nikki: She's got a keyboard looking for a reward by taking deep in the obscure, taking us on a detour.
Nikki: What, you got Salina in Salina sidebar?
Salina: All right, so they've laid the groundwork in an earlier episode, or maybe a few.
Salina: That bill comes from money, right?
Salina: He comes from real, proper old Virginia money, as Charlene puts it.
Salina: Not quite in that accent, but you get the idea.
Salina: And that got me thinking about old southern money.
Salina: So I did a little research to see if there was anything interesting to report.
Nikki: You're not going to share, like, a lot of stuff about my family here, are you?
Salina: Does that make you nervous?
Nikki: You're not?
Nikki: I didn't want everybody to know we're billionaires.
Salina: Just mark you off the list.
Salina: Doing some research.
Salina: I was like, is there anything interesting to report back?
Salina: And it turns out there was some really interesting things.
Salina: I ran across a 2015 Forbes article about America's oldest billion dollar families, and it turns out that we have some southern representation on that list in a few ways.
Salina: The ones that I'm going to highlight, they may not all be from the south, but I will be clear in each of these cases why I'm counting them and why they're going to appear on this list.
Salina: Okay.
Salina: All right, we'll hold you to that.
Salina: Well, you know, I like criteria.
Salina: Watch yourself.
Salina: That's right.
Salina: So let's start today with the Duponts of Delaware.
Salina: I know, I know, some of you are screaming at your device.
Salina: Delaware is not a southern state.
Salina: Well, according to the US.
Nikki: Meanwhile, I'm like Delaware.
Nikki: Where is Delaware?
Salina: Well, here's the thing.
Salina: Delaware is like, somewhere around Virginia, but Maryland, right.
Salina: It's above Maryland, I think.
Nikki: Sure, right.
Nikki: That's what I said.
Salina: We should probably pull up a map.
Salina: Here's what I can tell you.
Salina: It is a southern state according to the US.
Salina: Census.
Salina: So today it counts.
Nikki: Southern state.
Salina: That's right.
Salina: So according to the aforementioned article, the Dupont fortune dates back to 18 two, and they are worth a whopping 14.5 billion.
Salina: The family's riches were built on first gunpowder and later chemicals going on to invent nylon, kevlar, and teflon.
Salina: Okay, this is not the point of today's segment, but I would be really remiss to not mention the multiple lawsuits that have been filed and settled against Dupont related to the chemical used or that used to be used to make teflon.
Nikki: Teflon, yes.
Nikki: Kill you.
Salina: It doesn't help.
Salina: It sounds like.
Salina: So those who sued claimed illness linked to pollution from DuPont's Parkersburg plant in west Virginia.
Salina: So that is definitely the south.
Salina: And from what I read, they've paid out close to a billion dollars in settlements.
Nikki: Yikes.
Nikki: Do you imagine having a billion dollars to start with, much less to pay off settlements with?
Salina: It's really hard to imagine any of this.
Salina: I think the more I read about rich people, the more plea be I feel just all around for sure.
Salina: So today, the family no longer runs the company, but they do own a percentage of its shares.
Salina: I don't know why.
Salina: I just know from my research that is what the case is.
Salina: Currently second on the list, the Brown family, whose fortune dates back to 1870, when George Garvin brown's company became the first to sell whiskey in a sealed glass bottle.
Nikki: Oh, wow.
Salina: I mean, y'all, would it even be a southern list without some of that cold haw distillery catch?
Salina: I don't know.
Salina: No question, mark.
Salina: But it is kind of funny to think about that being invented for the first time.
Salina: I don't know.
Salina: Anyways, so the glass bottles were a good move because as of 2020, the browns are worth an estimated 20.4 billion.
Nikki: Holy crap.
Salina: Holy now, that's up from even the 2015.
Salina: I think that's that pandemic just in those first few months, that's really all it took.
Salina: While you may not know the browns or the brown forming corporation based in louisville, kentucky, you probably know their brands.
Nikki: Makersmark.
Salina: Jack daniels, old forester, woodford reserve, shamboard, and many, many more.
Nikki: Makers, mark.
Nikki: I don't think they have makers, mark.
Nikki: Gosh darn it.
Salina: Is that your favorite?
Salina: No.
Nikki: First one that came to mind.
Salina: Okay.
Nikki: I'm trying to be part of your segment.
Salina: Come on.
Salina: The water is warm.
Salina: Oh, is there a fly in here?
Salina: Is it an ad?
Nikki: There's two of them.
Nikki: I just spit.
Nikki: That was me.
Salina: Was it?
Salina: Was it an a** earth bit?
Salina: Okay.
Salina: Next up, the milliken family.
Salina: Not southern.
Salina: Oh, you know about the milliken textiles.
Salina: Is this because of south carolina?
Salina: Tell me in a minute.
Salina: I'm on a roll.
Salina: Anyways, the milliken family, they're not southern, but they have strong business and political ties here.
Salina: So, again, we're counting it.
Salina: Their fortune was launched in 1865.
Salina: It is textiles, and they're currently worth only a lousy 4.4 billion.
Nikki: I mean, are they even trying?
Salina: They're the poorest people out of the three that I chose.
Salina: I can't believe it.
Salina: So while they started out in textiles, today milliken and company is in global manufacturing, and they're active in several spaces textile, chemical flooring, and healthcare.
Salina: You can find more on their website if you're interested.
Salina: Here comes that southern connection.
Salina: The company has held property in Spartansburg, south carolina, since the 1880s, and they've been headquartered there since 1958.
Salina: Is this how you know about them?
Salina: No.
Salina: Okay, I want to know more.
Nikki: I have a friend who worked for them in columbus, georgia.
Salina: Oh, okay.
Salina: Like, am I about to go on to badmouth your friend's company?
Nikki: Oh, she doesn't work there anymore.
Salina: Okay, good.
Salina: Actually, I think it sounds like the kind of stuff they do is like, today is, like, really good.
Salina: Let me just keep going.
Salina: Okay, so one thing I want to do is to connect back to our extra sugar on workers rights.
Salina: The company moved to the south to escape a unionizing north and capitalize on south Carolina's recently, then minted status as a right to work state.
Nikki: Excellent.
Salina: So the political ties come into play with roger milliken.
Salina: He's the grandson of the founder who ran the company from get this blows my mind.
Salina: He ran the company from 1947 to 2005.
Salina: It's a long time.
Salina: It's over 50 years.
Salina: Nuts.
Salina: And then even after he retired.
Salina: As stepped down from that role.
Salina: He remained a chairman of the board until he died in 2010.
Nikki: That couldn't step away.
Salina: I mean, he just was really a worker.
Salina: So Roger is also known as the political godfather to America's modern conservative movement.
Salina: According to Wikipedia, starting in the 1950s, milliken helped build the South Carolina Republican Party, which had been in the minority for decades.
Salina: And he also helped convince South Carolina Senator Strom Thurman to switch the Republican Party.
Salina: Y'all, I'm thinking at best you can say Thurman is a controversial character.
Salina: We'll just mention his record breaking filibuster of 24 hours and 18 minutes against the civil Rights bill of 1957.
Salina: There's a Politico article that credits Milliken with birthing the Southern strategy.
Salina: This is attracting white southerners to the Republican Party, a strategy that puts Richard Nixon and later Ronald Reagan in the White House.
Salina: And he was a notable donor to conservative causes supporting the National Review, Heritage Foundation and the John Birch Society.
Salina: There isn't time to cover everything in that Politico article, but we'll link to it because it really is a fascinating read that shows, like, where the south was then and then how we got to where the south is today, but also, like, the political parties and how they've shifted over time.
Salina: Finally, while not necessarily old money, we'll link to another Forbes article with the richest person in every southern state.
Salina: In case you're just curious about, like.
Nikki: Who'S rich in my backyard, I'm curious.
Salina: Spoiler alert seven of the 16 who appeared on the list inherited the money.
Salina: All of them were white, 14 were men.
Salina: Any guesses on the two women, like, what their money would have been from?
Nikki: Oh, man.
Nikki: No, I have no idea.
Salina: And we're talking like I mean, I think they're in the billions, too.
Salina: Jacqueline Mars Candy.
Salina: I didn't know they were in Virginia.
Salina: I felt dumb for some reason.
Salina: I think everything is in Hershey, Pennsylvania.
Nikki: Except hershey anymore.
Salina: Right?
Salina: Except for hershey.
Salina: So the other thing I'll just say is the Mars family is very interesting.
Salina: I feel like you would want to look into them.
Nikki: Okay.
Salina: And then Alice Walton is the other one.
Nikki: Walmart.
Salina: Yeah.
Salina: She's in Texas.
Nikki: I should have known that.
Salina: Texas.
Nikki: We're counting you.
Salina: We see you.
Salina: You're in the south.
Nikki: Welcome home.
Salina: I'm still trying to process the takeaway here, but basically, wealth is still very much generational.
Salina: You can do pretty much whatever you want when you want when you're wealthy.
Salina: And Americans can never get enough of cheap goods, chocolate or liquor.
Salina: And for the harshest segue so far today, maybe, I'm not sure.
Salina: What did you like about this episode, Nikki?
Nikki: I like chocolate, and in this episode, I like her.
Nikki: I really love Charlene standing up for herself against the old money family.
Nikki: And she came out on top, of course we knew she would, but she just came across very classy, very put together, and I think she did great.
Nikki: I really loved that.
Nikki: And I really love the comic relief of Julietta Kegger.
Nikki: I'll never get over that.
Salina: It's a really great setup.
Salina: Julia's take on etiquette.
Salina: I like that she says, if there's anything I cannot abide, it's people who use Etiquette.
Salina: As a club with which to bash other people.
Salina: The whole point of good manners is to make people feel comfortable.
Salina: And I just think that's very insightful.
Salina: I think this connects to your like, which is about Charlene standing up for herself.
Salina: I like the last scene with her and Bill's mom.
Nikki: Yeah, that was really nice.
Salina: Yeah, it it touched me.
Salina: I could really see them connect.
Salina: And I liked not only did Charlene stand up for herself, but she was also honest about where she came from, that she wasn't going to stop being proud of her family, and that she really loved Bill, and that was the main thing that mattered.
Nikki: Yeah, that was nice.
Nikki: Yeah.
Nikki: The only thing I didn't like about this episode was the Mary Joe JD breakup.
Nikki: Just felt so sudden.
Salina: Yeah.
Salina: That's definitely on my list.
Salina: We also get the return of judgmental, Julia.
Salina: So I wrote this down.
Salina: There is a fruit fly flying around this.
Salina: So if you suddenly hear large noises, it's because we've accidentally just thrown over this whole table trying to kill this one little fruit fly.
Salina: I'm not trying to kill it.
Nikki: Right.
Nikki: No.
Nikki: Just trying to shoe him away.
Salina: Yeah.
Nikki: Okay.
Salina: So this line with Mary Joe and Julia.
Salina: Mary Joe says, I do feel kind of energized, like you do when you're about to start something new.
Salina: I'm just going to go out there and have fun and be casual.
Salina: And Julia says, Mary Joe, I hope you don't mean you're going to be totally undiscriminating.
Salina: Come on, Julia.
Salina: I mean, so what if Mary Joe wants to have casual sex?
Salina: That is her decision, and it's fine so long as she's honest with herself.
Salina: Her partners, they have safe sex.
Salina: A little sex positivity, please, Julia.
Nikki: I had to look up the word undiscriminating because it doesn't sound grammatically accurate.
Nikki: It is, but it's not commonly used.
Salina: She's using British ink.
Nikki: That's correct.
Salina: All right.
Salina: I'm going to give the opposite side of this, I think, which is you said you like Julia, the Keck party.
Salina: I like the setup.
Nikki: Yeah.
Salina: I thought it was delivered a little weekly, like it was rushed or something.
Salina: I wanted more time there.
Salina: I wanted to just live in that scene a little bit.
Salina: I think we could have up the amount of interaction a little bit.
Nikki: I feel like that was the whole point of the scene, though, was how quick and dirty it all happened.
Nikki: And Mary Joe, in her head, was thinking it was going to be this long, drawn out thing, and it just was.
Nikki: We're done.
Salina: Well, I also would have liked to have seen Suzanne there.
Nikki: Yeah, that would have been fun.
Salina: I think that was a missed opportunity.
Nikki: That would have been fun.
Salina: But that was my only dislike.
Salina: So, again, set up good execution didn't work as much for me.
Salina: You want to rate this sucker?
Nikki: I do.
Nikki: I have a rating scale this week.
Nikki: Beer funnels.
Nikki: Yeah, I'm giving this one 4.75 out of five beer funnels.
Nikki: The JD.
Nikki: Mary Joe non event breakup just really stuck with me and really bugged me.
Nikki: One other thing I'm going to say about that, and I swear I'll shut up about it because it's really just not that important.
Nikki: But we talk about Richard Jilliland in relation to the show.
Nikki: And you might have mentioned this in a recent episode that we did, that he's, like, a fan favorite.
Salina: Yeah.
Nikki: And so it's so strange to me that this show goes on for we're in season three.
Nikki: I think it has four more seasons, and this character isn't he's not even there for half the show and is an enduring fan favorite.
Nikki: And I think I'm feeling such whiplash because I just did not see that coming at all.
Nikki: I thought he was with the show.
Nikki: I thought he and Mary Joe would get married, and I guess they still could, maybe, but this feels pretty indie to me.
Salina: I just kind of looked at his filmography and I think we get one, maybe two more episodes.
Nikki: Okay.
Salina: That'll spill over into season four, and then I think it's just calling it quits.
Salina: I gave this one four out of five terrifying dinners.
Salina: I just generally found it enjoyable.
Salina: It starts on a high note with Charlene's engagement, and then I don't know exactly why, but it's always interesting to see someone from another world try and.
Nikki: Fit into another fish out of water and whatnot.
Salina: Yeah, it's like the Pretty Woman thing.
Salina: Can they fit in?
Salina: Can they overcome this obstacle?
Nikki: But we knew Charlene could, didn't we?
Salina: We knew it.
Salina: I knew it from the get go.
Salina: But it's just usually a satisfying storyline for me.
Nikki: Yeah.
Salina: So who won this episode?
Salina: Who buttered our biscuits?
Nikki: Bill's mom for calling her sister or telling her sister not to be a jackass to Charlene as she sat there in her royal blue diamond necklace, staring out over her vast china laden dining table.
Nikki: It was all very regal and wonderful to me, and I loved it.
Salina: I picked Charlene.
Salina: She's engaged, she's in love, and by the end of the episode, she seems to win over Bill's mom.
Nikki: She's on top of the world, living her best life.
Salina: I want to, like, break out in song or something.
Salina: Who lost the episode and who served us lumpy gravy?
Nikki: Kenny man.
Nikki: He tried to jump straight from Mary Joe's arms into Julia's arms with undies on his head, and that's just lumpiest of the gravies.
Salina: Also, if he is pushing 30, it's.
Nikki: Just not a good look.
Nikki: And I don't remember exactly how old he is, but going back to that gap there's not that big of a difference between what I think Mary Joe is like 30, early 30s, not quite mid 30s.
Nikki: Right.
Nikki: Am I free wheeling?
Salina: I think she's probably about our age.
Nikki: Sorry about that, Mary Joe.
Nikki: I was going to say there's not that big of an age difference there.
Nikki: And yet there's a big maturity difference.
Salina: Yeah.
Salina: I mean, if he's 25 to 30, I think that's acceptable.
Salina: Also, who am I?
Salina: Who am I to say what is and what isn't acceptable?
Salina: I'm not stepping into that.
Nikki: I just meant it's almost an unbelievable maturity difference because you would expect them to be more on the same playing field.
Salina: Yeah.
Nikki: What about you?
Salina: I had Aunt Phoebe.
Salina: I still don't like her.
Nikki: Yeah, for sure.
Salina: I don't like this lady.
Nikki: She wasn't great as Miss Silner either.
Salina: No, but she did lead to funny scenes.
Nikki: At least she did.
Salina: And this she's just a b*******.
Salina: I like to say b*******.
Salina: It really makes Nikki happy.
Nikki: It's so great.
Salina: 80S things.
Nikki: The concept of Pam Ewing coming back to Dallas.
Nikki: That's what Suzanne says when she tells Charlene her news.
Nikki: Better not be something stupid.
Nikki: Long story short, Pam was a character played by Victoria Principal on the soap opera Dallas.
Salina: That's right.
Nikki: I won't spoil the show because this was a big deal, her leaving and then coming back.
Salina: Sure.
Nikki: Julia got the phone call on a cordless telephone.
Nikki: I thought it was a cell phone when it started ringing.
Nikki: That was fancy.
Nikki: Yeah.
Salina: I thought for sure.
Nikki: I was like, whoa, is someone about to get a cell phone?
Nikki: But it was just a cordless phone.
Salina: Yeah.
Salina: I think I had amazing landline calls.
Salina: Again, we got a string of 80s ladies.
Salina: I mean, they're still ladies today, but this was really their heyday, Lisa, Bonet cher.
Salina: Liz Taylor is a really good reference, honestly.
Salina: But the better reference in the 80s is The Wallpaper Store.
Salina: Oh.
Salina: Because that's where Kenny works.
Salina: The Wallpaper store.
Nikki: It's got job security.
Salina: Things are really looking up.
Salina: I mean, is there not a Wallpaper Store on every corner today?
Nikki: Exactly.
Salina: Southern things.
Nikki: Charlene's grandpa calling the kids by saying woo Pig Suey.
Nikki: When she said that again, my SEC loving brain went straight to the Arkansas Razorbacks.
Nikki: That's their team call.
Nikki: But what I was wondering is so one, I wondered if that was a reference because it's Arkansas home state.
Nikki: Whatnot?
Nikki: But I don't know if that's like a saying that exists.
Nikki: Otherwise.
Salina: Again.
Nikki: Whoopig suey.
Salina: I think it exists no matter what.
Nikki: It's just a thing farmers say.
Nikki: I Googled it and I couldn't find any sort of like this is how you call your pigs suey.
Nikki: I spelled it multiple wick.
Nikki: I'm a champion Googler.
Nikki: This is not my first rodeo.
Nikki: This is not my first Woo pig suey.
Salina: Now, it could be so ingrained into the culture from the football.
Nikki: I think so.
Salina: But also, I mean, just going back to the Hatfields and the McCoys.
Salina: The razorbacks was one of the things that made them have a falling apart.
Salina: Falling out.
Salina: They fell apart.
Salina: They fell out.
Salina: They fell every which way but loose.
Salina: Anyways, razorbacks are just really ingrained in Appalachian culture.
Salina: And I just wonder it will be hard for me to believe that is it a chicken or the egg thing, I think is what I'm getting at.
Salina: Because if those have been so important for so long, then that kind of important thing gets picked up by Arkansas.
Salina: And I don't know, who knows?
Nikki: Well, I'm bringing it up because of the Arkansas.
Salina: The only thing I know to do is go suit.
Salina: But I know nothing about football.
Salina: But I know that.
Salina: So I'm just saying there you go.
Salina: That's all I'm saying.
Salina: Other Southern things.
Nikki: That's all I have.
Salina: Did you already say that?
Nikki: I think so.
Nikki: I don't know.
Salina: Perfect.
Salina: Where are we?
Salina: Who are you?
Salina: Yeah.
Salina: At the Ritz Carlton.
Salina: So this is where they got engaged.
Salina: We don't see it, but they talk about it.
Salina: And I just wanted to say that there are two locations, one in downtown Atlanta and another in Buckhead.
Salina: For those who don't know, it appears that they opened in 83 and 84 respectively.
Salina: And I like to believe that Bill proposed in downtown Atlanta.
Salina: It just seems more of what I would like to call atl classic.
Salina: It also really shocked me that the Ritz Carlton really only started in the my mind.
Salina: This is like a hotel chain that would have started in, I don't know, the early 19 hundreds or something.
Nikki: I feel like I need to break it to you that I think the Ritz Carlton and Buckhead is closed and rebranded closed it.
Salina: And I did read that they had closed and were doing renovations, but I.
Nikki: Thought they were finished.
Nikki: I'm pretty sure Kyle and I stayed there and it's now called the Whitley.
Nikki: I'm pretty sure.
Salina: Well, I just like that you're going ahead and catching me.
Nikki: Now.
Salina: I did look at it and I don't know, it's not even worth explaining what went through my head when I was researching.
Salina: But I also asked two people who worked in Buckhead who swore to me that it was still there, but maybe it's as the Whitley and they're confused it's.
Nikki: Marriott officially reintroduced the renovated and rebranded property now named the Whitley Hotel Atlanta Buckhead.
Salina: That's so weird.
Salina: I even looked at something, too, where this is not really important for here.
Nikki: It's not?
Nikki: No.
Nikki: But I also stayed at the Ritzen downtown on my relevant to this episode on the night of my wedding.
Nikki: And we got upgraded to a really amazing room.
Nikki: And it had a dining table in it, like a twelve person dining table.
Nikki: It had doorbell.
Nikki: We had a doorbell in our hotel room.
Salina: I thought it was the Ritz where you had stayed, but I couldn't quite remember what I was looking into this, but I mean, that's what they're all about is luxury.
Nikki: So fancy.
Salina: They also do, like, the high tea, which I would really like to go do sometime.
Salina: It looks really cute there.
Salina: Just going to throw that out there again.
Salina: They're in Virginia, supposedly.
Nikki: I tried looking up the front of the house that they used as the still because I felt like that had to be something famous and I couldn't find anything really helpful.
Nikki: A reverse Google image search probably would have been helpful.
Salina: Oh, I thought you were going to say you did it.
Salina: To which I was going to say, see the links we go for you.
Nikki: Maybe before this episode launches.
Nikki: I'll do that.
Salina: Yeah, you do.
Salina: You the other thing that struck me as Southern was just table manners and etiquette.
Salina: I'm not saying this doesn't exist other places and some people probably have a nice stereotype, a stereotype about Southern etiquette, but when I think of it, I think of something that is prim and proper and there's a really specific way that you do things.
Salina: References.
Nikki: We need to talk about the worst dressed women reference.
Nikki: At the very beginning of the episode, julia just sort of goes on a rant about those lists and how they trot out this random designer once a year to put together this really mean, flam book list or whatever.
Nikki: It just felt weirdly specific.
Nikki: Sometimes you're watching and listening to something, you feel like they're talking about someone specific here.
Nikki: This is just too specific to be nothing.
Nikki: I think that it's related to Mr.
Nikki: Blackwell or Richard Blackwell, who is an American fashion critic, journalist, television and radio personality, artist, former child actor and former fashion designer.
Nikki: He was the creator of the Ten Worst Dressed Women's list, an annual awards presentation he unveiled in January of each year.
Nikki: So the worst dress list exists.
Nikki: It became like a real thing.
Nikki: And Maya had an honorable mention for Lisa Bonet Cher and Liz Taylor, who were mentioned by Anthony as mainstays on the lists, and they were okay.
Salina: I had to look him up just to see what it looks like.
Salina: He looks kind of familiar.
Nikki: Interesting.
Nikki: So that was it.
Salina: Yeah, I can see that really bothering LBT.
Salina: I had just a couple of things.
Salina: One was a riding habit.
Salina: I'm just not fancy, so I had to look that up as being it's.
Salina: Specifically women's clothing for horseback riding.
Salina: Like, I'd heard the term before, but I had no idea.
Salina: I would have thought it was like something to do with, like, the saddle.
Salina: I don't know.
Salina: Amy Vanderbilt is an American authority on etiquette.
Salina: She literally wrote the book on it in 1952.
Salina: It's still in circulation.
Salina: I'm just going to say for the record that in addition to the t that you were just turning me down on with your eyes, that it feels like it could be fun to get a hold of that book and try and test those rules out and see how it goes.
Salina: We also get an Emily Post reference, but we've talked about her before.
Salina: I think the main thing there is this is all like I think LBT really does this a lot, which is she has a lot of pop culture references or historical references that really capture the essence of the show.
Salina: And in this case, it's like a rich family with this really stringent set of etiquette and rules.
Salina: So we get references that really tie into that cut lines.
Nikki: Just before the flower delivery, they cut Mary Joe's rundown of her date with Kenny.
Nikki: So she actually described the date.
Nikki: It sounds like it was a real humdinger.
Nikki: She said, I only went out with Kenny Rayburn once.
Nikki: By the way, you never told us how that went.
Nikki: Not that it's any of our business.
Nikki: Not that great.
Nikki: He kept calling me MJ, which comes up with the flowers.
Nikki: And then we went out to this rock concert and got seated directly in front of this giant 4000 pound loudspeaker.
Nikki: After that, the nerve deafness was so bad I couldn't even hear the guy on the little drive through thing at Taco Bell there.
Nikki: It was just a one time thing, just casual.
Nikki: So we got a little bit more about their date and why it was so terrible and how big that disconnect was between the two of them.
Nikki: And then just one other.
Nikki: This is super minor, but it speaks to the vastness of the property that Bill's family owns.
Nikki: When Bill's mom came in to check on Charlene, they cut this line, which gives you a sense for how big the house is.
Nikki: And of course, Bill, Phoebe and I will be staying in the main part of the house.
Nikki: And you'll have this whole wing to yourself tonight, so that's presumably why the mother was coming to check on her, right?
Salina: Also, we're going to keep you all the way over here exactly.
Salina: By yourself.
Nikki: Exactly.
Salina: I call Mary.
Salina: J mary?
Salina: I call Mary Joe MJ.
Salina: Too.
Salina: In my notes, it's always MJ.
Nikki: You and Kenny.
Salina: I like that as a nickname too.
Salina: I think it's cute.
Nikki: It's cute.
Salina: That's just me.
Nikki: So SS next Episode episode 18 come on and marry me, Bill.
Nikki: We'd love everyone to follow along with us and engage Instagram and Facebook at Sweet Tea and TV.
Nikki: Email sweettvpod@gmail.com and our website is www.
Nikki: Dot sweetv.
Nikki: On that website you can find different ways to support the show, including a Support US page, or you can rate and review the show, or tell your family and friends and hang tight for Extra Sugar.
Nikki: If you saw my brain working a minute ago when you talked about Amy Vanderbilt, it was because I thought I referenced her in this week's Extra Sugar, which is going to be all about Southern wedding traditions.
Nikki: Just kind of a nice counter to shacking up in the last episode.
Salina: Hey, that's what we're trying we're just trying to give you all the perspectives.
Nikki: So I was trying to refresh my memory if I mentioned her.
Nikki: I did not mention her specifically, but we do talk a tiny little bit about Emily Post.
Nikki: So if that's why my face was.
Salina: Doing that thing, I saw your brain in full working mode.
Nikki: So Southern wedding traditions in this week's extra sugar.
Salina: All right, well, you know what that means.
Nikki: What does that mean, Salina?
Salina: It means we'll see you around the bend.
Salina: By.
Nikki: Welcome to this week's edition of Extra Sugar.
Nikki: I feel like we've actually had a couple of opportunities to do this extra sugar this season, but it fits really well with this episode.
Nikki: I think we had Bernice's wedding earlier in the season.
Nikki: Could have done it then, but it fits really well with this one where we talk about you had your sidebar on old Southern money.
Nikki: We talk about this very Southern, old Southern family.
Nikki: So it's a good time to talk about unique wedding traditions in the south.
Nikki: For this segment, I've compiled a list of about eleven uniquely Southern wedding traditions, and I thought we'd do word association again.
Salina: Oh, God.
Salina: Okay.
Salina: Marriage, divorce.
Nikki: I'll preface this with this list is a little long, so I'm going to cut this short for our regular feed episode.
Salina: This is but I'll preface this.
Salina: This is going to be very long.
Nikki: Settle in, folks.
Nikki: I'm going to cut it short for our regular feed episode, and then I'll post it in its entirety for our patreons as I go through.
Nikki: Please weigh in if any of these were part of your wedding.
Nikki: So I'll give you a word association, you tell me what you think it is, I'll describe the tradition, and then we can talk about whether it fit in with your wedding or not.
Salina: Okay.
Nikki: You and I both had Southern weddings.
Salina: Well, yes, I was married in the south.
Nikki: Weddings that occurred.
Nikki: Weddings that occurred among Southerners in the south.
Salina: Okay.
Nikki: So I got married in a daresville, a smaller town north of Atlanta in a historic house.
Nikki: And you got married in Delaniga on a horse farm.
Salina: It's also like a resort.
Nikki: Yeah.
Nikki: Sounds so fancy.
Nikki: Before we jump in, did you set out to have any wedding traditions that were Southern?
Salina: I was going to say it's because.
Nikki: I raised Bedlington's terriers on your horse farm.
Salina: Who do you think keeps all the horses together?
Salina: Nikki.
Salina: Get with the rich stuff.
Salina: Get with the fancy people stuff.
Salina: I'm sorry, what was your question?
Nikki: Did you set out to have any specific Southern traditions involved in your wedding?
Salina: Oh, definitely not.
Nikki: Really?
Salina: I don't think so.
Salina: I don't even think that's why I was excited about today.
Salina: I just assume there are Southern wedding traditions, but I'm not sure that I actually I mean, maybe I accidentally know that, right?
Salina: I mean, there are certain traditional aspects, right?
Salina: Like rehearsal dinner, getting married, getting yeah, but I don't think that's, like, southern specific.
Salina: So those kinds of things I think came into play or, like, meeting with some people the next morning to have breakfast or whatever, maybe like a little bit of that kind of thing.
Salina: But, yeah, I don't know.
Salina: Start talking and maybe something will come to me.
Nikki: So what I wanted to share before we start is that I don't know that I set out to have, quote unquote, a Southern wedding necessarily, but I do think there were some aspects of my Southern heritage that I kind of wanted to incorporate, which I guess in a sense makes it a Southern wedding.
Nikki: But I don't know that I set out for any specific Southern traditions.
Nikki: So let me explain.
Nikki: For instance, I always wanted an outdoor ceremony.
Nikki: I just always wanted something at a sort of a country looking house out.
Nikki: If I had to describe it, it'd be sort of like in a field, sort of a come as you go, come and go as you please sort of aesthetic.
Nikki: I just wanted it to feel like a comfortable house party at a really beautiful house.
Nikki: Parts of that feel Southern to me.
Nikki: Parts of that feels like what I was trying to tap into.
Nikki: I also really, really wanted magnolia blossoms in my bouquet.
Nikki: We may have talked about this before.
Nikki: My grandmother had a big magnolia tree in her front yard when I was growing up.
Nikki: I think it's still there, but when I was growing up, I used to climb it.
Nikki: I loved the trees or the leaves.
Nikki: They were beautiful.
Nikki: The flowers.
Nikki: The flowers were the beautiful part, and I really wanted that in my bouquet.
Nikki: But turns out they're really bad for bouquets.
Nikki: They wilt super fast.
Nikki: They don't stand the heat very well.
Nikki: So the lady that did my flowers wouldn't even do it for me.
Nikki: She wouldn't even entertain the thought.
Nikki: You were married in May, the end of May.
Nikki: Okay, yeah, so she wouldn't do it.
Nikki: But I did get to do shepherd's hooks at the end of each aisle with some flowers in a mason jar, so I got that out of it.
Salina: Okay.
Salina: Yeah.
Salina: I mean that's southern.
Nikki: And I feel like you were sort of getting at this a second ago.
Nikki: There were two that made, so I looked at a couple of different lists, and so this is sort of an amalgamation of things I saw, but there were two that just kept showing up that feel weird to call tradition to me, so I left them off the official list, but I'm going to mention them here.
Nikki: They were, quote, unquote, outdoor weddings and quote, unquote, southern food.
Nikki: Like I just mentioned, my wedding was outside, and so was yours.
Nikki: But I don't know that that's necessarily because that's a Southern tradition.
Nikki: It could be because we live in the south and the weather's nice.
Nikki: Sometimes the weather's nice.
Nikki: I wanted my wedding to feel airy.
Nikki: I wanted it to feel outdoorsy, because that's sort of the vibe of my life that I sort of have.
Nikki: But I don't know that it was because it's a southern tradition.
Nikki: It just happened that way.
Nikki: Do you know what I mean?
Salina: I do, yeah.
Salina: So I got married outside.
Salina: I'm like, you know, you were there.
Nikki: I was there.
Salina: But, yeah, it had nothing to do with, like, well, I'm southern, right.
Salina: I got to get outside.
Nikki: Exactly.
Salina: I think it had to do more.
Salina: I don't know.
Salina: I had, like, a really specific vision in my head for what I wanted the outdoor ceremony to look like.
Salina: And again, none of that really had anything to do with being southern, but I wanted it to.
Salina: The way I explained it to my mom when we were trying to put something together is I was like, you know that part in The Little Mermaid where she's already human?
Salina: And she goes out into the town with the prince, and they go and take a boat ride, and they're, like, in a little lagoon area, and they open up this they open up like this moss, and everything is just, like, so magical.
Salina: I was like, I would like my wedding to look like that.
Nikki: That is a very specific vision and.
Salina: Maybe a little hard to achieve without the lagoon where mom was like, okay, all right.
Salina: We'll see what we can do.
Nikki: We'll give you a candy bar.
Nikki: And then the other one was southern food.
Nikki: What a weird thing to call that a tradition.
Nikki: Like, if you serve northern food at a northern wedding, would that be considered a northern wedding tradition or just the food you serve?
Salina: Well, and that one's so hard because I feel like the more stereotypical food when you think about northern food, whatever that means, I think people probably think of, like, new York and pizza and Jersey and subs, and even those things have this immigration path to America.
Salina: Doesn't really have that much of its own food.
Salina: Ours has a lot in African traditions.
Salina: Yeah, I don't know, but I also wasn't like, I got to have some southern food at my wedding, right?
Salina: Definitely not.
Nikki: They talked a lot about shrimp and grits.
Nikki: They talked a lot about fried chicken, and it just feels like if you.
Salina: Very greasy for a wedding yeah.
Nikki: And if you like that food, that's just what you're inclined to serve guests at a party that you're hosting because you like that food.
Nikki: Yeah.
Nikki: Anyway, it was just weird, so I left those off the main list.
Salina: Okay.
Salina: I could talk about it for 2 hours now.
Salina: I think we brought up I was.
Nikki: Going to say we've officially talked about them, but they're off the main list.
Nikki: So, like I said, I want to do word association.
Salina: Okay.
Nikki: So how about we do grit splits, southern wedding edition?
Salina: Great.
Nikki: Split.
Nikki: Split.
Salina: Splits.
Nikki: Grit splits.
Nikki: So what tradition do you think of when I say.
Nikki: Armadillo.
Salina: I think about Steel Magnolias and the Armadilla cake.
Nikki: That's right, the infamous Steel Magnolias armadillo grooms cake.
Nikki: If you're not familiar one, just go watch Steel Magnolias.
Nikki: You should be familiar if you've made it this far.
Nikki: In Designing Women, you should be familiar with the Armadillo cake.
Nikki: The groom has an aunt who makes cake shaped like an armadillo.
Nikki: It's made with red velvet, so it looks like it's bleeding.
Nikki: It's truly atrocious.
Nikki: It's terrifying.
Nikki: I can't even imagine how you'd begin to make gray asin.
Nikki: It's pretty great.
Nikki: So aside from having seen it in that movie, which is firmly a Southern movie, I was surprised to see this one lumped in as a Southern tradition.
Salina: Yeah, I thought it was a joke.
Nikki: Just for the that part, certainly.
Nikki: So the armadillo is not the reference here.
Nikki: The tradition is grooms cake.
Nikki: So I always sort of thought of grooms cake as just sort of an optional wedding tradition.
Nikki: Like, I didn't realize it had regional roots.
Nikki: I just thought it was sort of this thing you can choose to do or not, but it sounds like it is regional.
Nikki: So for anyone who doesn't know, the grooms cake is a secondary cake to the traditional tiered wedding cake.
Nikki: Apparently it's rooted in Victorian England when weddings featured three cakes, one for guests, one for bridesmaids, and one for the groomsmen.
Nikki: And a grooms cake often today often features the grooms alma mater, former favorite sports teams, hobbies and or profession.
Nikki: Did you guys have a grooms cake at your wedding?
Salina: Yeah, but ain't none of those were going to show up on my grooms cake.
Nikki: What kind of grooms cake did you have?
Salina: Well, we got the wrong cake.
Nikki: Perfect.
Salina: But it was just supposed to be like a chocolate cake.
Nikki: Ours, too.
Salina: And I think maybe there were like chocolate covered strawberries and maybe like white chocolate piping and stuff on it.
Salina: That's not what showed up.
Salina: What showed up was I thought you.
Nikki: Were describing the grooms cake at my wedding because that's pretty much what it was.
Salina: Well, instead, what showed up was really cute.
Salina: It just happened to be like it was chocolate, too, but I think it had, like Little Debbie snack cakes around, like each layer and different maybe Swiss rolls or something.
Salina: But I remember I think I've even talked about this here before, but I walked in to check on things that day and I walked by the cake and I went, that's not our cake.
Salina: And I just kept walking.
Salina: And that's like I think weddings are a really great reminder.
Salina: There's only so much you can control.
Salina: That's how I feel about a lot of things in life.
Salina: When you get to that day, it's done.
Salina: Just let it go.
Nikki: We spend a lot of time talking about the main wedding cake.
Nikki: This is not on my list of things and not relevant necessarily, Southern traditions, except we spend a lot of time talking about the main cake, but actually, grooms cakes are really super elaborate sometimes.
Salina: Well, and I think it's the one that people usually like the most because normally it's like the fun cake.
Salina: That's where you're going to get, like, your peanut butter and chocolate kind of combination, something that's like a little it's not as fancy.
Nikki: Right.
Salina: And I think we're so focused on or like, it winds up being, like, fondant or something on the wedding cake, which I was like, no, because I just don't like fondant.
Salina: But I think it winds up being, like, vanilla with a raspberry lace.
Nikki: Trust me.
Salina: And it's fine, but it's just not as delicious as some of the other things.
Salina: We get to be more casual, the.
Nikki: Grooms cake, but they can get really elaborate.
Nikki: Like, I've seen stadiums, like college football stadiums as the groom cake.
Nikki: So this is one.
Nikki: If folks want to share their pictures with us on social media, I would love because we both had boring grooms cakes, it sounds like.
Nikki: And honestly, I thought we were just checking a box with the person who coordinated our wedding, but I didn't realize it was Southern.
Nikki: Apparently it is.
Salina: You guys can do it at your if you decide to renew your vows.
Salina: We could.
Salina: Yeah, it's true.
Nikki: That just might be our main cake because I don't want to fond it.
Nikki: Covered.
Nikki: Grossness.
Nikki: Item number two, if I give you a bottle of bourbon around the time of your wedding, what would you do with it?
Salina: Well, I'm not going to drink it because that seems too obvious.
Salina: I'm going to save it, and I'm going to drink from it on my first wedding anniversary.
Nikki: That's a nice guess.
Nikki: It's not right, but it's a good one.
Salina: I'm going to break it over the grooms cake.
Nikki: You're getting closer.
Salina: I'm going to break it over something.
Nikki: You're not going to break it over.
Salina: Something, but it's closer to drinking it onto something.
Nikki: Would you bury it at the wedding site 30 days before the wedding to ward off rain?
Salina: I don't know.
Salina: Does it work?
Nikki: Allegedly.
Nikki: A few specific rules, though.
Nikki: It must be bourbon.
Nikki: It cannot be whiskey.
Nikki: Must be bourbon.
Nikki: It must be full.
Nikki: You cannot pull the lid off and take a couple of swigs.
Nikki: Must be upside down vertically.
Salina: Okay.
Nikki: Must be buried completely.
Nikki: And it must be buried at the exact time of your wedding, 30 days prior.
Nikki: So one of the articles I read was so specific.
Nikki: It said, if you are having your ceremony at 06:00 p.m..
Nikki: It needs to be buried at 06:00 p.m..
Nikki: 30 days before that ceremony.
Salina: I will tell you that just the nonsensical rules of that sound Southern.
Nikki: Yes, that's true.
Salina: It needs to be at a 45 degree angle.
Salina: You need to walk back twice, throw some underwear on it.
Nikki: Like what?
Salina: Why?
Salina: No reason.
Salina: It's just tradition.
Nikki: So then you dig it up the day of your wedding and you drink it with your wedding party.
Salina: Well, that's fun.
Nikki: It's fun?
Nikki: I've never heard of that.
Salina: No, but I like it.
Nikki: What would you say to me if I said to you suit fabric?
Salina: I would say that it's good to have some fabric on your suit, because without fabric on your suit, you're naked, and that makes for an awkward experience for everyone at your wedding.
Nikki: That is true.
Nikki: And what if that fabric were Seersucker?
Salina: I'd say that sounds like both Southern or maybe like, just like there's something that feels like Cape Cod moneyed about it.
Nikki: It's funny you say that.
Nikki: My thought is it feels New Orleans like, by you sort of vibe to me.
Salina: Is that what it is?
Nikki: So, like, a lot of these things, I feel like New Orleans just is different.
Nikki: They have a lot of traditions in Louisiana that become Southern traditions, and I feel like you'll hear some of that throughout the rest of this.
Nikki: But, seersucker, for anyone who doesn't know, is a lightweight linen or cotton fabric that's sort of puckered.
Nikki: The fabric and the design combine to make it a breathable lightweight suit that doesn't stick to you.
Nikki: So it's really popular for Southern grooms, particularly if they're getting married outdoors, which we know is a Southern tradition.
Salina: That's because it's hotter than h*** here.
Nikki: We got married Memorial Day weekend, and it was so hot.
Nikki: So hot, yeah.
Nikki: And I think from what I was able to kind of piece together, this tradition comes to us via British heritage.
Nikki: Apparently during British colonial times, seersucker was a really popular material in Britain's hot weather colonies like British India, and then it migrated to the southern US.
Salina: Interesting.
Nikki: What do you think of when I say portrait?
Salina: Think of portrait mode on my iPhone.
Salina: But I think in the case of a wedding, I would think of the wedding portrait.
Salina: Close.
Nikki: What about bridal portraits?
Salina: Well, I wanted a lot of portraits of myself.
Salina: I hang them in strategic places around our room so that Casey doesn't miss.
Nikki: Me when I'm gone.
Nikki: That's nice.
Nikki: So bridal portraits are photos taken of the bride in her wedding dress before the wedding, like, usually days and weeks before the wedding.
Nikki: The tradition is that you combine it with your makeup trial run or your hair trial run.
Nikki: But the idea is that you get this beautiful portrait taken, and you have it displayed at your wedding, and then your parents, the bride's parents, take it home and put it in their family home and display it there.
Nikki: This is another tradition rooted in Europe where royalty and wealthy families would commission oil paintings of the brides in their finest before the wedding, which would then serve as a keepsake after the wedding.
Salina: Where's your royal portrait?
Nikki: I didn't have one taken.
Nikki: I didn't have one taken.
Salina: I mean, I did the makeup trial.
Nikki: I've been to my fair number of weddings in the south.
Nikki: I think I've only seen a bridal portrait two times.
Salina: Really?
Salina: I've never seen that in the two.
Nikki: Weddings where I saw it.
Nikki: One is sort of like a deep South South Georgia wedding.
Nikki: So some of these things that I hear throughout here happened at that wedding, and I can check that box because of that.
Nikki: The other one is my dear friend Katie, who just knows all the Southern tradition and etiquette roles just in life in general.
Nikki: So I'm pretty sure she had a bridal portrait at her wedding.
Salina: She's going to have to come here and walk us through this.
Nikki: I know she might have to.
Nikki: Katie, come on.
Nikki: The line from Europe to the American South isn't super clear for bridal portraits, but I think the theory is just like, really rich Europeans moved to the American South and brought their traditions with them.
Salina: I think that sounds right.
Nikki: So it is something that happens here.
Nikki: Like I said before, it's not something I did, but I've seen it.
Nikki: What about lunch?
Salina: I like lunch.
Nikki: Me too.
Salina: Lunch like a bridal lunch?
Nikki: Bridal luncheon.
Nikki: That's right.
Nikki: That's a lunch the bride has with her friends, family, and bridesmaids the day before the wedding.
Nikki: That's when she usually gives out her bridesmaid's gifts.
Salina: That's that real traditional stuff right there.
Nikki: It is.
Nikki: Did you have one of these?
Salina: No.
Nikki: I didn't either.
Salina: I was still making my candy table.
Salina: You probably were firmly cemented in 2012.
Nikki: Yeah, that wasn't a thing for me.
Nikki: I have sort of an addendum to this one.
Nikki: Have you ever been to or been involved with a wedding where they display the gifts in any sort of way other than, like, wrapped just on the table receiving them, but, like, unwrapped displayed so people can see them?
Salina: Oh.
Nikki: This that South Georgia wedding I went to, this was a thing they did this.
Nikki: It's the first time I've ever seen.
Salina: It to, like, publicly shame people who didn't bring good enough gifts or no.
Nikki: So this is what when you mentioned.
Salina: That wasn't on the registry, when you.
Nikki: Mentioned Emily Post earlier, that's where my mind went because I tried to look it up.
Nikki: It felt like a very Southern tradition when it was happening.
Nikki: So she got married in a church, and then we all went to her parents house for the reception, and they had, like, giant tents set up, but they also had the house open in this one specific area where you could walk through, and all the gifts were laid out on tables.
Nikki: So this entire time I'm thinking this is a Southern tradition.
Nikki: It's actually a little hard to find much about it.
Nikki: And what I did find kind of indicates maybe it is a Southern tradition, but not entirely Southern.
Nikki: Also, it's faded in and out of appropriateness over the years.
Nikki: So in the late 18, hundreds Gotti's Or Gody's Ladies Book, which was a Philadelphia based women's magazine, framed it as a massive faux paw.
Nikki: They said it was show offy and vulgar, but by 1922, Emily Post said it's a yes.
Nikki: Not as a way to brag, but rather to show appreciation.
Nikki: I checked Emily Post's website because that is still a thing to see if they have more current guidance.
Nikki: And I didn't find anything, so I don't know if it's appropriate today or not.
Salina: Some of it just feels like logistical, right?
Salina: It feels like that's changed.
Salina: I think a lot of it is just because of technology and the Amazon of life, but you don't really want to give the bridal party more to do.
Salina: So a lot of times I'll just send something to their house, right, and just get that knocked out.
Nikki: I try super hard not to bring a wedding gift to the wedding if I don't have to, because then I think about who has to take that gift home afterwards and who has to keep track of it.
Nikki: So, yeah, I think it's again, that's one that it's only related to my main question because they talked about giving gifts or whatever, but I wanted to bring that one up because I wanted to see if you knew anything about it.
Salina: I do think that's nice, though, like, if you want to be kind of brag on people for what they brought.
Salina: But for me, I like the idea, oh, you all got to go in on a group for one water pitcher.
Salina: Come on.
Nikki: So I love a good wedding.
Nikki: I thought this was a really fun segment to put together, but I'm sure that I missed some things.
Nikki: So I'd love to hear from listeners if there are any Southern traditions I missed or any things that maybe even that we talked about today that they were really conscious about working into their weddings.
Nikki: And with that, this has been this week's extra sugar.