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Designing Women S2 E14 - A Man's Wedding Ring and an Electric Power Saw

Updated: Jul 10, 2023

Grab your mandatory fluffy robe, tissue, and a pint (or two) of Häagen-Dazs: it’s a breakup episode. And when Charlene cries, we cry. But we have questions like: do people still watch “Home Shopping” in the Amazon age? Do you really not “care about your appearance” if you have a full face of makeup on? Will Charlene ever “get hip” to the MTV generation?

Stick around for this week’s "Extra Sugar" to explore the highs and lows of Hollywood’s favorite romantic trope: kissing in the rain. (And if you want to do your own “research”, check out this article or this one.)

Some additional reads if you’re interested:

Come on, let’s get into it!



Salina: Hey, Nikki.

Nikki: Hey, Salina.

Salina: Oh, my god.

Salina: I haven't seen you forever.

Salina: Oh, my god.

Nikki: I think it's been a second ago.

Nikki: There's third episode recording of the day.

Salina: That's right.

Salina: We're doing them in batches, people.

Nikki: Maybe we'll get it right this time.

Salina: And hello, everyone.

Salina: Hey, y'all.

Salina: Welcome to sweet tea and TV, where today we're covering season two, episode 14.

Nikki: Oh, my gosh.

Nikki: Are we already at episode 14?

Salina: Episode 14.

Salina: 2nd time around.

Salina: First time around for this episode in talking about it.

Salina: Fifth time around where you and I saw it.

Salina: 70th time around.

Salina: No, but first, it's the proof survey.

Nikki: Hold on to your pants, people.

Salina: Or take them off.

Salina: No, keep them on.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: Keep them on.

Nikki: It just depends where you are.

Salina: That's very true.

Salina: Number.

Nikki: Question number.

Nikki: Question number.

Salina: In case we haven't proven that this is number three of recordings today, 29.

Salina: Which historical figure do you most identify with?

Nikki: Humpty dumpty.

Salina: Oh, because he fell off the wall.

Nikki: I take umbrage with this question.

Salina: Oh, okay.

Salina: Tell me why.

Nikki: Because well behaved women rarely make history, and I am pretty much a rule follower and well behaved.

Nikki: So I don't think I'm like very many historical figures that you would remember.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: So I think we're coming at this from similar directions.

Salina: Who do you think you are?

Salina: Proust.

Salina: Who do you think that you are?

Salina: Are you the kind of person who leaves your alarm on in the middle of a recording?

Salina: Are you?

Nikki: If he is, then Salina's proust.

Salina: We have something in common.

Salina: So I'm sort of feeling the same way.

Salina: I don't identify with any historical figures that I know of.

Salina: I feel like my self esteem is much too low for that.

Salina: So if it's someone who's like a historical figure for bad reasons, I don't necessarily feel like a criminal or like a criminal mastermind.

Nikki: Right.

Nikki: But it's smart enough for that.

Salina: I'm not John dillinger, but at the same time, I'm like, what am I going to say?

Salina: Well, Abraham Lincoln.

Salina: No, I'm just trying to get through the day.

Salina: Although we all put our pants on one leg at a time, rare times you have someone hold them open and you jump in them for fun.

Salina: So, yeah, I don't really have an answer as much.

Nikki: I don't you know what?

Salina: And that's okay.

Nikki: That's okay.

Salina: So take that proof.

Salina: The second question for today is who are your heroes in real life?

Nikki: I don't have a specific name.

Nikki: There are a lot of people that I think are amazing and I respect.

Salina: Okay, keep going.

Nikki: So, I won't say I have a specific name.

Nikki: I will say that the people that I find heroic are the people who stand up against injustice or just something wrong in the moment without even thinking about it.

Nikki: And that's the sort of backbone that I hope when the rep kyle calls it the dare to be great moment, I hope one day, if I have my dare to be great moment, that I have the backbone to do the things that those everyday heroes do?

Nikki: I'm not sure I do, but I hope I do.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: There have been a lot of those little stories on the news, probably the last forever, but especially the last few years.

Nikki: Those are the parts of the news where I'm like, yeah, you get it.

Nikki: Where someone says they're caught on camera someone's cell phone saying, that's not cool.

Nikki: Why are you doing that right now?

Nikki: Or I watched this entire story on TikTok.

Nikki: It was told in a funny way, but this woman was basically telling the story of a young girl working at a shop, and she was taking a long time to check an older woman out.

Nikki: And finally the older woman just kind of, like, lost her mind and was like, that took you long enough.

Nikki: Why are you so slow?

Nikki: And how dumb are you?

Nikki: And just was really rude to the girl.

Nikki: And the girl took the lady's stuff back and said, I will put the money back on your credit card, but I don't want someone like you shopping in my store.

Nikki: And the one was like, Your store?

Nikki: Let me talk to your manager who owns this place.

Nikki: And the girl was like, I do.

Nikki: This is my shop, and we don't treat people like that in my shop.

Nikki: That's like an everyday hero moment to say, like, you know what, man?

Nikki: This world sucks enough.

Nikki: We don't need sucky people getting away with being sucky.

Nikki: I think that's cool.

Salina: So I think something that's resonating with me as you talk is this idea of also, people are so obsessed with fame and being known, and whether it is on social media or whether it's, like, traditional fame or whatever the case is, it's just become to this level.

Salina: That is a big turn off for me.

Salina: So what I like that you're saying are these people who are just everyday people, they're doing what feels right in the moment, and they're not necessarily looking for any credit.

Nikki: Yeah, man, there's so many more normal people in the world than there are, like, truly famous people or truly notable, and there's so many more of us.

Nikki: So if we could all just be good in those everyday moments and stand up for the right thing, this world would be so much better.

Nikki: And I have a lot of hope that there are a lot of people out there like that.

Nikki: We just don't see that because that doesn't always make the news.

Nikki: That's not the story that's going to make you click a news article, but the fact that more and more people come out because of social media.

Nikki: They capture these moments on their phones and then post them.

Nikki: You're seeing like, no, there are good people out in the world.

Nikki: They just operate under the radar, and you don't see it.

Salina: I like it.

Salina: Well, when they said real life, I'm like, so my real life.

Salina: And I was thinking they meant like someone you know, right?

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: I think even the word hero is kind of tough for me because that does come with these connotations of this just like otherworldly like, you know, that you just fixed this huge problem or picked a car up off of someone or whatever the case is.

Salina: And I've had a lot of heroes in my life and people who have just moved me in different ways and a lot of them are in my family.

Salina: I've seen people in my family do a lot with a little I've seen them work their way through really tough times and overcome what seemed insurmountable in the moment.

Salina: And whether that's all in these really incredibly different ways.

Salina: Whether it's my mom as a single mom or my aunt who just cares so deeply for so many people and really tries to go out in the community and do good works, or both of my grandmothers that came up in a time when it was even more challenging to be a woman.

Salina: And the things that they went through and the stories that they've told me.

Salina: So I think from that perspective, I feel like so many people in my life have filled that position.

Salina: And also I think the thing that bothers me about a question like this is like saying anybody's name in particular and making anybody else feel less special somehow.

Salina: And I think those kinds of questions are a little difficult for me.

Salina: So what I'm trying to say is you're all heroes in my life, especially.

Nikki: Her mom and her aunt.

Nikki: I think that's why I kind of go back to I feel like maybe I'm taking the easy way out on some of the questions we've taken in the last couple of episodes because I'm focusing on characteristics that I associate with these things versus individual people.

Nikki: Because, yeah, again, to me a true hero.

Nikki: I mean, there are people who have done amazingly heroic things.

Nikki: That World War II episode we did a few episodes ago, we talked about some people who made history for being otherworldly amazing a sense, like in a way I can't fathom being.

Nikki: But I also think, again, there are so many more stories of everyday people doing the right thing when no one's looking.

Nikki: The person who sees someone like one day I'm driving to work, it starts drizzling and I have a blowout and I pull over to the side of the road and I'm panicking because I don't know what I'm going to do.

Nikki: I can change my entire I'm in work clothes, it's work time and it's raining.

Nikki: I don't really want to, but I'm getting my stuff out to do it and a man pulls over out of nowhere and changes my tire for me.

Nikki: He doesn't expect anything.

Nikki: He doesn't want anything.

Nikki: He didn't do it because he thought I looked weak.

Nikki: He did it because it looked like the right thing to do.

Nikki: Those everyday heroes are incredible to me.

Nikki: That is amazing.

Nikki: My parents do stuff like that all the time, where they just go out of their way to do things because it kind of looks like someone might be having a hard time.

Nikki: And those are the things that I think it's cool when you have these amazing heroes who make change on a big level.

Nikki: But it's also really cool to have individual people out there in the world doing individual things.

Salina: You need both.

Nikki: You need both.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: We need everybody.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: And I think that's important.

Salina: I also think something we talked about around that episode, too, was just this idea that sometimes we put people on pedestals because if you just ask them, they will be like, I was just doing my job.

Nikki: I was just doing my job, man.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: Speaking of heroes, speaking of them, does Charlene need a hero?

Salina: There's a hero.

Nikki: I was just thinking, I need a hero.

Salina: We went two different songs.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Hero the sub.

Salina: I'm hungry again.

Salina: Don't think I can't take this to food.

Salina: I will.

Nikki: So we've got episode 14, 2nd time around.

Nikki: Hulu says when Charlene falls in love with a man who is still grieving the loss of his first wife.

Nikki: Julia relates her own experience and convinces him not to feel guilty about enjoying Charlene's company.

Nikki: IMDb says Bill tells Charlene he's not ready to go deeper into their relationship.

Nikki: Charlene becomes withdrawn and Julia talks to Bill about how she felt when her husband, Hayden died.

Nikki: This one aired January 11, 1988.

Nikki: I feel like that first one, that Hulu description is written like we don't know who Bill is.

Salina: Right.

Nikki: So this one was written by LBT and directed by David Trainer.

Nikki: So I prefaced for you at the beginning, I don't have that much for this episode because I think it didn't really draw me in.

Salina: I will be very frank that on my very first watch, I felt just like, this is not for me.

Salina: I liked it a lot more on the second watch.

Salina: But yeah.

Nikki: So I think one big general reaction I had sort of plays into this week's extra sugar, which is, spoiler alert, going to be about Hollywood kisses in the rain.

Nikki: The kiss in the rain.

Nikki: Hollywood trope.

Nikki: My first general reaction to this is that Charlene's life feels like a fairy tale lately.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: The things that are happening in her life, the storyline with Bill, I am not surprised at any twist or turn that it takes.

Nikki: I'm expecting that to come as a great imbiber of romantic comedies.

Nikki: Just in my life, just in general.

Nikki: It's very romantic comedy, very fairytaley.

Nikki: I think I'm here for it.

Nikki: I think I enjoy this because I love Charlene.

Nikki: I think she deserves a fairy tale.

Nikki: I like it, but it doesn't leave a lot for surprise for me.

Nikki: Does any of that resonate with you?

Nikki: Do you feel fairytaley about her life?

Salina: Okay.

Salina: I guess I'm sitting here thinking, like, girl comes from small town, goes to the big city.

Nikki: She goes through a series of bad boyfriends.

Salina: Right.

Nikki: Falls in love with a colonel in the military, a man in uniform who treats her really well, respects her boundaries, protects her.

Nikki: They have their falling apart.

Nikki: They have their falling back together.

Nikki: There is this subplot of his wife dying.

Nikki: He's a widower.

Salina: I think it's following the general line.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: I do think we get to see something that you don't normally get to see, which is like her going she goes into a pretty dark place.

Salina: And I don't know, we always get to see that.

Salina: I felt like that was a pretty big chunk of this episode.

Salina: And normally I feel like it's maybe given two minute real estate or something.

Salina: And for a 22 minutes sitcom, we spent a good bit of time with her and her fluffy pink robe.

Salina: Actually, one of the things that did strike me in this episode about Charlene specifically is they are talking towards the beginning of the episode.

Salina: Her and Bill are before any of these problems erupt.

Salina: And she says something about how she doesn't feel like a part of her generation, the MTV generation.

Salina: I just thought that was kind of funny because I would have never put her at that age.

Nikki: So weird to me.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: Because she's in her early 30s.

Nikki: Right.

Salina: I think we think that she's either late 20s or early 30s.

Salina: Somewhere in there.

Salina: In real life.

Salina: Yes.

Salina: She's in her early 30s.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: I don't think any of these women I don't think of any of them right.

Nikki: As MTV generation.

Salina: Technically, our moms are part of the MTV generation.

Salina: And even I don't think of my mom as part of the MTV generation.

Nikki: I think of us as I know that's not right, but when I think about the trajectory of MTV, I think of us as the MTV generation.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: And then my other general reaction that went a little sideways.

Nikki: My other general reaction is that I think Bill's struggle might be really relatable to some people.

Salina: Sure.

Nikki: This concept of losing the person that you were expecting to spend forever with losing them and then trying to figure out what's appropriate in this new world for yourself.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: I mean, it's just still being fairly young.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: And I can't even imagine how hard that would be to try and not have that guilt and feel okay.

Salina: And suddenly feeling these feelings that you thought that no one else could ever give you.

Salina: I think that's why the second time I watched it, between her reaction and we know that Charlene's been hurt a lot.

Salina: And then it's not like Bill didn't cheat on her.

Salina: He didn't just get tired of her or anything like that.

Salina: I mean, he is really having a true push pull within himself.

Salina: And I think watching those kind of emotional notes the second time they got me, it's morbid.

Nikki: But I think we should talk about death more.

Nikki: I mean, I really think everyone in general should talk about death more because I think there's a lot that goes unsaid in life that when you die, it leaves people with a sense of lacking.

Nikki: You never close the loop.

Nikki: I have told Kyle I want him to find love after me.

Nikki: Like, if I'm gone, you find someone that makes you happy, because that's what I want.

Nikki: I want you to be happy.

Nikki: I wish it were you and me happy together, but I'm often, whatever the next life is, I'm happy over here, so you should be happy over here.

Nikki: I hope that's what happens to me.

Nikki: But, yeah, I want him to be happy.

Nikki: I think that's what most people would want if they really, truly love their partner.

Salina: Yeah, I guess it takes all kinds.

Nikki: You don't want Casey to be happy?

Salina: Oh, no, I want him to be happy.

Salina: Mine is more I can't even get past.

Salina: Like, when I think about being here and him not being here, I can barely handle it.

Salina: Oh, no.

Nikki: I'm capable of thinking about me not being here.

Nikki: The other half of it I can think of.

Salina: So I can't ever get past in our conversation, me saying I need me to go first.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: Oh, sure.

Nikki: In my mind, it doesn't happen the other way.

Nikki: That's not possible.

Salina: And so, yeah, of course I would want him to be happy.

Nikki: I also do believe, and I don't mean to cut off your train of thought, but I do feel like it's important to say you can also be happy not getting married again.

Nikki: Like, my grandfather passed many years ago.

Nikki: My grandmother never got remarried.

Nikki: I don't know that she was completely turned off of the idea, although she certainly believed my grandfather was the one for her.

Nikki: But she's never met someone.

Nikki: And I think that's the other thing.

Nikki: I guess it depends on your age.

Nikki: It depends on where you are in life.

Nikki: But if I'm 60 years old, I'm not going out and getting on a dating app.

Nikki: I'll just really enjoy my time with my friends, I think.

Salina: Right?

Salina:, for you.

Nikki: Well, maybe.

Nikki: Who's to say?

Salina: I mean, let's say where the road takes us.

Salina: For me, I have said to the point, like, you don't know until you know.

Salina: But from everything I don't know right now, I think I would probably just be single for the rest of my life.

Salina: But I'm certainly not hating on anyone who is just seeking happiness and seeking partnership.

Salina: Partnership.

Salina: I know I mess with Casey a lot when we talk, and I kid about him a lot, but he is the greatest joy of my life.

Salina: I mean, he has made life worth.

Nikki: Living because you don't have a dog.

Salina: Just remember, Christmas is around the corner.

Salina: Maybe I'll get a car.

Salina: Nothing will be less interesting to me.

Salina: Well, did we go deep enough?

Salina: Were we sad enough?

Nikki: We really went in.

Nikki: We went all in.

Salina: So on that same note, though, of just I think Jean Smart did such a nice job in this episode.

Nikki: She did.

Nikki: Really?

Nikki: She was amazing in this episode.

Nikki: You guys don't know.

Salina: She's a really good actor.

Nikki: That's what they keep saying.

Salina: That's what they keep saying.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: She really had range to go from Charlene as we know her to heartbreak.

Salina: Charlene well, who's always really up and up and just a happy person.

Salina: She sees the good in all things all the time.

Salina: I think we talk a lot about this.

Salina: Hasn't happened a lot this season, but last season it was just time after time tarlene get it together.

Salina: You got to be able to see some things here coming because she's such a believer and such a positive person that I think sometimes she gets smacked in the face by reality kind of hard.

Salina: But she always got up really quickly again.

Salina: And this is like a time I think maybe she's just been knocked around a little too much by love or something.

Nikki: And happy people can be sad too, of course.

Salina: I hear we fill all the range of emotions.

Nikki: I appreciated watching that personality type go through their version of heartbreak and depression.

Salina: I liked how she kind of stealed herself.

Salina: Like, it was almost like she told him when he basically broke things off, you're not getting my tears, and walked out the doors.

Salina: And then he got all her tears.

Nikki: But he didn't get to get to see him.

Salina: And I appreciated that about it.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: I had took a picture of I think it's a stole that Julia is wearing.

Nikki: Stole.

Salina: I think that's what they're called.

Salina: I'll show you a picture of it.

Salina: This was one of my general reactions.

Salina: It might take me a minute to find it, so we won't wait on that.

Nikki: Can I ask you your general reaction?

Nikki: I know we've met Bill before, but in this episode can I ask your general reaction to him in this episode?

Salina: Do you think he's he's the favorite romantic I think he's my favorite guy so far.

Nikki: Really?

Salina: Out of the ones we've met, because I think they've been pretty okay.

Salina: Well, we haven't gotten into things I don't like.

Salina: He actually says something that I don't love to Charlene.

Salina: But on the whole, there's something about him that seems like he's just a good guy.

Nikki: I get the sense he's a good guy.

Nikki: Some of his lines make me cringe.

Salina: Oh, yeah.

Nikki: They're just sort of like sometimes a little over the top or like creepy.

Salina: Almost, or like, unbelievable coming from a man.

Salina: Too romantic.

Salina: It's like the things maybe a woman.

Nikki: Would want a man to say versus.

Salina: The things a man would actually say.

Nikki: So it's hard for me to give myself to him because well, you don't.

Salina: Have to give yourself to him emotionally.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: I need to invest in this relationship.

Nikki: Is this going to work out?

Nikki: She has a picture for me.

Nikki: This is a stole.

Salina: See the pink thing on her shoulder?

Nikki: Yes.

Nikki: It is very elaborate and it is so funny.

Nikki: You took a picture of that because I was rewatching the episode and I was like, what the heck is that?

Nikki: Why is she wearing that?

Salina: So, you guys, she has like a pink fur thing.

Nikki: It looks like a pink something that got ran over in the middle of the street and she threw it over her shoulder.

Salina: And my question was like a pelt.

Salina: What is she accomplishing with that?

Nikki: It doesn't go with the outfit or.

Salina: Is it like she cold?

Nikki: I don't just the one shoulder, just one shouldered.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: So I don't know.

Salina: It just stood out to me.

Salina: Maybe I'm not going to make any promises, but if I remember, maybe I'll throw that up on social media.

Salina: But I just thought that was interesting.

Salina: My other general reaction, my last one short for me is Julia referring to her reaction over Reese not proposing in season one as all very innocent quote, unquote.

Salina: I think that's a convenient interpretation, though, because I think she had a pretty rough time with it.

Salina: She did, which was fine.

Salina: Also, this notion, related, that Charlene has let herself go and doesn't care about her appearance.

Salina: That's what Julia says.

Salina: She's in a full face of makeup and her hair is deflated.

Nikki: I was going to say her hair was a little bit matted in a couple of places, but she was in a very cute, clean looking robe.

Salina: There wasn't one stain on it.

Nikki: Or hole.

Salina: No hole.

Salina: It was like a nice robe.

Nikki: I think just in general, Charlene, when they came to visit her in her apartment and this is why earlier I chose the wording to say her version of a dark moment, because even a depressed Charlene was still pulled together.

Nikki: She was still like all of the things they were accusing her of doing, like calling into the Home Shopping Network to order an electric saw.

Nikki: There was a perfectly rational explanation for that.

Nikki: All was very orderly and tidy.

Nikki: She just needed to sit in it for a little while.

Nikki: Just sit in the gunk, which I think is good.

Nikki: That's super healthy.

Salina: The thing, though, I will say, though, that I didn't necessarily take it to be a character choice to be in full makeup.

Salina: I took that more as like it's a TV show.

Nikki: Put her in full makeup.

Nikki: Right.

Nikki: She didn't look I think it was a natural full face of makeup.

Nikki: So I think that was intentional.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: As natural as they could pull off in 87.

Salina: They tried so hard.

Salina: So outside of general reactions and things, things that you liked about this episode.

Nikki: I thought there was a large concentration of comedic relief right at the beginning of the episode.

Salina: Yes.

Nikki: Which I think maybe foreshadowed how the rest of the episode was going to feel, how heavy the rest of it was going to be.

Nikki: Foreshadowed might not be the right word.

Nikki: Maybe it just sets it off or something.

Nikki: But the whole Bubba Dwayne bit at the beginning, I thought that was really well done.

Nikki: These are the two guys at the stoplight who told Julia and Mary Joe they loved them.

Nikki: And Mary Joe does this whole thing where she's like, it's just amazing to me, these people are still out there in the world.

Nikki: It's sort of like that Japanese soldier who stumbled out of the forest eight years after World War II.

Nikki: I mean, I just want to shake them and say, Bubba Dwayne, it's over.

Nikki: I just thought that was so funny.

Nikki: And those people still exist.

Salina: It was great.

Salina: Well, some of those descriptors, just so people know, is they were in a big red truck, gun rack on the back, duck hunters hats on, Playboy key hanging from the rear view mirror.

Salina: I think the only thing they could have done to set it off a little bit more is maybe some truck.

Nikki: Nuts and some camo.

Nikki: There was no mention of camo.

Nikki: And then in sort of that same little bit, suzanne says, you and Charlene always attract the redneck element.

Nikki: I wonder why that is.

Nikki: And Mary Joe says, no, you don't.

Salina: That was funny.

Salina: I thought a lot of the ladies interactions in this one were good.

Nikki: That whole mental image of Suzanne playing hard to get with a man in the ICU, that was very funny.

Nikki: Julia says, Why not be a little more direct?

Nikki: Open the door naked, then slam his hand in it.

Nikki: I thought that was really funny.

Salina: I love that line.

Salina: She may be on to something.

Salina: Who knows?

Salina: I thought Anthony's reaction to the man on the street quizzes that they give was really funny.

Salina: Hey, Anthony, you're a man.

Nikki: What do you think about you're a man?

Nikki: I am?

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: No, that was the last little bit of comedic time.

Nikki: A comedic interjection that I get grabbed, because I just thought that whole interaction was very funny.

Salina: He's so funny.

Salina: Well, we do get a little bit more of a lighter note when we have that home shopping conversation from Suzanne.

Salina: Hearing Charlene, I guess hearing her on the team, she heard her interpretation of how she's doing.

Salina: She's upset, but she has a plan.

Salina: What did she buy?

Salina: A man's wedding ring and an electric power saw.

Salina: And they're like, all right, get the keys.

Salina: We're going.

Nikki: And how she put it all together.

Nikki: It was Charlene.

Nikki: She sounded like her.

Nikki: Oh, and then she said her name was Charlene Fraser.

Nikki: That was the giveaway.

Salina: She's quick.

Salina: Can't slide nothing by her.

Nikki: I loved all of the funny stuff in the episode.

Salina: I liked that well, so not funny, but the more like melodramatic scenes I did on second Watch like Julia's conversation with Bill and what she had to say about losing Hayden.

Salina: And she talks about those first five years after she lost him and then how meeting Reese brought her out of basically, she says she just lost those years.

Salina: And she talks about what a rough period that was and everything.

Salina: It's a little lackluster since we've met Reese and we're not as excited by him.

Nikki: I know the part she said that did resonate with me is she said basically it was like he took this ghost that I had been hiding from and invited him right into our relationship.

Nikki: That does feel like Reese to take control of a situation and say, like, you're being ridiculous.

Nikki: He's part of your life.

Nikki: He's now part of my life.

Salina: And I love that.

Salina: And I've had a few friends, parents who have oftentimes been like parents to me over the years who have lost their significant other and gone on and remarried, actually.

Salina: I think in both instances that are coming to mind immediately, they've married, widowers, and they very much so recognize that this is like a second time around.

Salina: And they very much so talk about their past relationships because that was a huge part of who they are and they honor those relationships.

Salina: And I think that's very precious.

Salina: And so I really like that.

Salina: And where Charlene and Bill make up, it's pretty mellow, dramatic, but I was into it.

Salina: Okay, good.

Nikki: Glad.

Salina: Good.

Salina: I can't fake your voice squeaking out.

Salina: So that was mine.

Nikki: What about what you didn't like?

Salina: So you asked before about how I feel about Bill, and I do like him.

Salina: I think what I didn't like was this line between the two of them.

Salina: Charlene tells Bill that men don't take her seriously.

Salina: And then he says, Charlene, you just have this quality that puts men in mind of other things.

Salina: And all I could think if I was her, I'd be like, thanks.

Nikki: I feel like everybody says that to Charlene and I'm not masculine enough to understand it.

Salina: I get it.

Salina: And I understand what the other things are.

Salina: I understand and I understand her legs up to there and all of that.

Salina: But I feel like it's so unfair to her character because she is so much more than just a pair of long legs and everything else that comes with that package.

Nikki: I think Jean smart's.

Nikki: Beautiful.

Nikki: I don't think of her as like, vava vavoom.

Salina: I think it's more of the package, though, too, because she's also going to be she's the kind of woman that if we're being very heterocentric here right now, okay.

Salina: But she's the kind of woman that builds a man up.

Salina: You know what I'm saying?

Salina: So it's more than just and she is very beautiful, but it's also this idea that I think that she does fall into that.

Salina: Category of feeling like a man is a manly man and a woman does womanly things.

Salina: And I do think a lot of men really eat that up, especially of that generation.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: I don't think our generation gets quite as jazzed about that, or at least the one I live with.

Nikki: I don't know how that vibes with putting them in the mind of doing other things.

Nikki: Do you know what I mean?

Salina: I thought their mind was always on doing other things.

Salina: So I guess it depends on what trope are we talking about?

Nikki: Right.

Salina: But whatever it was, I know he was trying to be complimentary.

Salina: Just to be clear about my point here, my point is if I was her and I was trying to say this thing like, men people never take me seriously.

Salina: And they're like, I can't because I want to do you on the couch.

Salina: I don't think that would make you feel what I wanted to hear.

Nikki: Right?

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: Thanks for being honest, but right.

Salina: And then my only other thing was Charlene's dress at the end.

Salina: Hated it.

Salina: I didn't take a picture.

Nikki: Yeah, it looked like a doily.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: I mean, after all this, he's like, right?

Salina: Eyes shooting out of the head, and then she steps out, and I was.

Nikki: Like, kind of Victorian.

Nikki: Yeah, it was, like, shapeless.

Salina: Right?

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: The only thing I didn't like is sort of a cop out.

Nikki: I just didn't like seeing Charlene sad because I like Charlene when she's happy.

Nikki: My heart broke for her.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: But in saying that, I did appreciate that they showed both sides of her when she was her happiest and her when she was experiencing the heartbreak.

Nikki: I think that's important, but it just made me sad.

Salina: Well, let's get you out of that slump.

Nikki: Let's do it.

Salina: Are you ready to rate this sucker?

Nikki: I am.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: What's your rating scale?

Nikki: Buttons on my day.

Nikki: Oh, that's what Anthony said.

Nikki: He said, I love those little man on the street quizzes.

Nikki: They're just like little buttons on my day.

Salina: Yeah, that was cute.

Salina: I like that.

Nikki: I'm giving it four out of five.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: As we're talking, I'm realizing I probably meant three, but four, I'll get you.

Nikki: Sure.

Nikki: I'm going to give it four.

Nikki: I like Charlene getting her fairy tale.

Nikki: I appreciated that we were able to resolve this rift between the two of them very quickly.

Nikki: I didn't have to go two episodes.

Nikki: I didn't have to wait till next week to find out.

Salina: And that right there is where a.

Nikki: Three star just wrap it right up.

Nikki: If they're going to end up together, put them together.

Nikki: So I appreciated that.

Nikki: I loved the commentary on games in relationships, sort of at the beginning of the episode where Suzanne is like, yeah, you got to make them want you.

Nikki: You got to blah, blah, blah.

Nikki: And Julia just being like, oh, my God, I'm too old for this.

Nikki: No, that's such a waste of time.

Nikki: Just like, tell him what you think.

Nikki: I appreciated that.

Nikki: What about you?

Salina: I gave it four and a half out of five stints in a fuzzy bathrobe, and I think I don't know.

Nikki: Four and a half?

Salina: I did.

Nikki: Wow, that last scene really did.

Salina: You win, didn't it not it wasn't really I don't know, I just was a lot it was the kiss in.

Nikki: The rain, wasn't it?

Salina: It was the kiss in the rain.

Nikki: I knew it.

Salina: I'm such a sucker for a kiss in the rain.

Salina: I'm always saying it.

Nikki: Before I'll say it again.

Salina: I'll say it every time, but yeah, I don't know.

Salina: I think there were so many funny scenes that I really enjoyed, and then they took me around the emotional bend.

Salina: And then, I mean, I only had two things I didn't like, and one of them was her dress.

Nikki: But the dress was supposed to be a character on its own.

Salina: Such a big deal.

Salina: I was supposed to fall in love with her.

Nikki: She was supposed to put you in the mind of other things.

Salina: That's right.

Salina: I mean, please don't.

Salina: So that was mine.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: Combination of either 80s, Southern or unknown references.

Nikki: I don't have anything for these first two categories.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: I'll come back in at Southern references.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: So I only had the 80s things, and I just put in home shopping.

Nikki: Oh, right.

Salina: It just felt of its heyday.

Salina: I think I looked it and the date seemed it started, like, in 79.

Salina: So it does feel of the do.

Nikki: Think that was its heyday.

Nikki: I do think it's worth saying that I follow a couple of influencers who promote things that are for sale on the Home Shopping Network.

Salina: Sure.

Salina: Yeah, it is.

Salina: Freezey, to me, definitely still in existence.

Salina: I just think most people are probably just Amazoning.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: And I think the tenants are the same.

Salina: Be careful what you're drinking.

Salina: You may not want to buy if you're emotional or bored.

Salina: Okay, so southern things.

Nikki: Suzanne reading that copy of Atlanta Magazine in the opening.

Salina: Oh, okay.

Nikki: That's what she's sitting there reading.

Salina: And I didn't realize it was Atlanta Magazine until you pointed it out to me.

Nikki: So back and look at that.

Nikki: I can't find the actual cover.

Nikki: So I think we might need Atlanta Magazine's help discerning whether it's a real magazine cover or not.

Nikki: That's it.

Salina: Okay, the way you said you were hopping back in at Southern Things.

Nikki: Well, I'm hopping in for the one.

Salina: I got the one.

Salina: What do you want?

Salina: I mean, it was Atlanta Magazine.

Salina: It's Real magazine.

Salina: That's a good catch.

Nikki: It's real thing.

Salina: So Hearst suzanne saying I done.

Salina: Shook my finger at them.

Salina: That's borderline country you're coming in there with.

Salina: I done Bubba and Dwayne, which we covered.

Salina: Jerry Lou Lewis.

Nikki: Oh, another one.

Salina: Haven't heard about him in a while.

Salina: We also get mention of the Southern Baptist Convention.

Salina: Charlene mentions that she's writing them a letter because they're saying they won't let women be ministers and they are laying groundwork for a later episode, which I thought was interesting.

Salina: Gulf Shores was also another one.

Nikki: Oh, yeah.

Salina: And then that was it for me, though.

Salina: What a lovely transition.

Salina: I think both of us got our tapping fingers tired by references that we had to look up.

Salina: There was, like a thousand.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: You want to get us started?

Nikki: I will.

Nikki: So I've got three that stuck out to me.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: I mentioned it earlier, that Japanese soldier coming out of the jungle eight years after World War II.

Nikki: So I didn't find the exact story as she briefly summarized it, but I did find several accounts of Japanese soldiers who continued fighting long after the Japanese surrendered to the Allied forces in August 1945.

Nikki: And then there were several stories of soldiers who disappeared into the woods and lived off the land.

Nikki: So some people continued fighting like local police, but these people just sort of, like, went into the woods and lived off the land.

Nikki: They just ate whatever they could find.

Nikki: So the last verified, quote, unquote holdout surrendered in 1974.

Nikki: So the Japanese surrender was in 45.

Salina: Wow.

Nikki: This was 74.

Nikki: The soldier hiro oneADA was a Japanese Army intelligence officer.

Nikki: He was persuaded to come out of hiding by a former comrade in the Philippines, according to a story I found.

Nikki: This is what I quoted from the story.

Nikki: Mr.

Nikki: Onata, now 83, wept uncontrollably as he agreed to lay down his rifle, unaware that Japanese forces had surrendered 29 years earlier.

Nikki: He returned to Japan the same year, but unable to adapt to life in his home country, he emigrated to Brazil in 1975.

Salina: Wow.

Nikki: So there were unverified accounts into maybe the early ninety s of former Japanese soldiers who had been hidden either like, in the local woods or in the local community, had just sort of been in hiding.

Nikki: But that was the most recent verified account.

Salina: Man, that's crazy.

Nikki: Wild.

Nikki: Right?

Salina: Also, he was kind of like an.

Nikki: Older soldier to have been living oh.

Salina: You mean he would have been in his 50s?

Nikki: Yeah, I think he was an intelligence officer.

Salina: Wow, that's really interesting because you don't hear about stuff like that.

Nikki: Not really.

Nikki: And it's buried in such a weird little reference in this episode.

Salina: Yeah, I mean, I had heard of the general idea of some of that, but I definitely haven't ever looked really closely into any of that.

Nikki: There was also a reference to Shelley Winters in Bloody Mama.

Nikki: Yes.

Nikki: So I'm going to be honest with you that I was thinking Shelley Duvall, the lady, the actress who played the wife in The Shining.

Salina: Same.

Nikki: So when I looked up Shelley Winters, I was like, oh, not the same person.

Nikki: Yes, but anyway, this is a movie about Ma Barker, who is a Missouri native.

Nikki: So her claim to fame is that she was the mother of several American criminals who ran the Barker Carpus gang during the Public Enemy era, when the exploits of gangs of criminals in the Midwest gripped the American people and the press.

Nikki: She traveled with her sons during their criminal careers.

Nikki: At one point, J.

Nikki: Edgar Hoover proclaimed her one of history's most dangerous criminal minds.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: So I also looked all of this up, I thought it was also fascinating.

Salina: Something I really like about the shows.

Salina: I'm saying when we get to dig into the references yeah.

Salina: Somehow I missed the fact that she was from Missouri.

Salina: So that feels like a really strong connection point.

Salina: But I pulled the trailer.

Salina: We'll drop this in our notes.

Salina: But the only reason I bring the trailer up is to say, so this is in 1970.

Salina: It seems really ahead of its time.

Nikki: Oh, really?

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: I don't feel like movies were quite as violent around that time, and this seemed fairly violent.

Salina: And then also what year did you say?

Salina: 70.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: Well, I mean, not to say that there weren't other movies sure were.

Salina: Whatever around this time.

Salina: I mean, Rosemary's Baby came out in, like, 68.

Salina: I think.

Salina: Someone will tell me I'm wrong.

Salina: It's fine.

Salina: And that was, like, a very shocking movie for the times, but definitely in the minority at that time period, I think.

Salina: What else did you have?

Nikki: The last one I had was Jane Wyman in Falcon Crest.

Nikki: This really isn't that interesting.

Nikki: It was just an evening soap opera that aired through the 80s about a very wealthy family.

Nikki: I think the part that was most interesting about the show Falcon Crest was that it was developed by the same person who developed The Waltons.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: And I would not put The Waltons in an evening soap opera category.

Salina: Well, that's so I think what I read was that he looked at The Waltons, he wanted to do the exact opposite.

Nikki: He succeeded, it sounds like.

Salina: Well, CBS also gets a hold of it and says, no, Dallas is doing really well, so you need to make it basically Dallas.

Salina: But fine, you can put it wherever you want, but it needs to be Dallas.

Nikki: So they did that, but they made it like a vineyard, maybe, or like.

Salina: A vineyard family, because Jane Wyman, she plays Angela Channing, the tyrannical matriarch of the vineyard, which I hope to be.

Nikki: One day, I hope I'm described as that one day, I hope.

Nikki: When you ask me the question of what historical character, what's your most market characteristic, one might ask, I'm the matriarch.

Nikki: The tyrannical matriarch.

Salina: I thought you were going to say that the thing that you thought was the most whatever interesting was that Jane Wyman was married to Ronald Reagan in real life.

Nikki: Oh.

Salina: I don't know why, but I thought it caught me by surprise.

Salina: I mean, I knew he was an.

Nikki: Actor, but I limited my search to Falcon Crust.

Nikki: I didn't actually look into Gene Wyman as you're saying that, I'm realizing that's what happened.

Salina: I didn't mean for it, too.

Salina: It just popped up in whatever I looked up, figure out.

Salina: It's funny.

Nikki: It happens, I hear.

Salina: But I did think it was interesting.

Salina: We got a reference to her who's like so she's like a matriarch of this vineyard, a tyrannical.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: I don't know if you've heard, but also in the same episode that we get to Ma Barkerbloody Mama, who's also kind of like this tyrannical figure.

Nikki: So I don't know.

Salina: Not that interesting, I guess, but I told you anyway.

Salina: So I had some others.

Salina: One was dance cards.

Nikki: I thought about looking those up.

Salina: So, like, we know what a dance card is.

Salina: It's not like we ever used one.

Salina: They had definitely fallen out of popular.

Nikki: You didn't use one at prom?

Salina: I'm not that old.

Salina: But for anybody who may not pick up on that reference, I guess I just kind of got interested and looked it up.

Salina: What I did not realize is that people also kept them as souvenirs.

Salina: Yeah, so they would make them very decorative.

Salina: An attending woman records whom she'll dance with at a given point at a ball or a dance, but they would also keep them afterwards.

Salina: I thought that was kind of neat.

Nikki: I guess that makes sense.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: I mean, I find that more interesting than the need to do that.

Salina: I also thought, do you like it?

Salina: You like being organized?

Nikki: Are you into it, keeping your dance card?

Salina: No.

Salina: So you can organize your dances?

Nikki: I worried mine would be empty.

Salina: That's what I thought about mine.

Nikki: And here are my dance cards.

Salina: They're all empty, but they're beautiful.

Nikki: I'm thinking of the lady in a league of their own.

Nikki: Marla Hooch.

Salina: I love Marla hooch.

Nikki: She ended up happy.

Nikki: She ended up happy.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Good old Marla.

Salina: She really knew how to hit a ball.

Salina: So what I didn't know is that this is also where the phrase pencil me in came from.

Salina: I always thought they were just talking about, like, an agenda.

Salina: Right.

Nikki: A scheduler.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: And I assumed that people were using pencils then.

Nikki: Well, it depends.

Nikki: If I like you, I use a pen.

Nikki: If I'm not so sure about you, I pencil you in and then erase you later.

Salina: And that's what apparently a bunch of women were doing to these men.

Nikki: There you go.

Salina: For me, because I would have never been pinning or penciling anyone.

Nikki: I would have sat next to you.

Nikki: We could have could have decorated our cards together.

Nikki: That's blue gunning.

Salina: You want to go toss around the softball while all these other women are parading around all these dudes?

Salina: Anyways, sadness.

Salina: I didn't know who the Mills Brothers were.

Nikki: Oh, I don't remember that reference.

Salina: So it's when they're, like, listening to music.

Salina: At the beginning.

Salina: Oh, I was very sad because apparently I'm just sad that how did I not know who these people were.

Salina: So originally known as the Four Kings of Harmony.

Salina: They're like an American jazz quartet.

Salina: They made more than 2000 recordings that sold more than 50 million copies.

Salina: And they had at least three dozen gold records.

Salina: I knew not who they were.

Nikki: Oh, wow.

Salina: Pulled their music.

Salina: Didn't recognize it, but I thought it was good.

Salina: So there you go, guys.

Salina: Listen to the Mills brothers.

Salina: They're a thing.

Salina: Mickey Gilly also didn't know who that was.

Salina: An American country music singer and songwriter who moved into pop music in the 80s.

Salina: All I found was a bunch of covers.

Salina: I think he is doing a cover of the song that plays at the very end.

Salina: Jimmy Swagger.

Salina: We've talked about him before.

Salina: He's the Pentecostal Televangelist and he had a little prostitute scandal bubble up in 1988.

Salina: Literally.

Salina: That's what I said on the episode.

Salina: We talked about it, literally.

Salina: That's what you did.

Salina: I wish I had it right here to do a back to back.

Salina: One of the reasons I wanted to mention this is because a couple of episodes back, we were talking about Jim Baker.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: And thought that he got referenced in the Nashville episode, but it was actually Jimmy Swagger.

Salina: Right, I know.

Salina: Because this all took me down a really big rabbit hole.

Nikki: Sorry.

Salina: Oh, don't worry about that.

Salina: The only thing I wanted to say other than this is that actually, though, there is a connection to Jimmy Baker, which is that Jimmy Swagger publicly accused Jim Baker of immoral sexual behavior before he went down for his own issues.

Nikki: Those in glass houses.

Salina: Rocks.

Salina: Rocks.

Salina: Rocks.

Salina: Swagger is also related to Mickey Gilly and Jerry Lee Lewis.

Nikki: I was hoping because I just pulled up Mickey Gilly because I was like, I should know who this person is.

Nikki: I was hoping you'd come back to that.

Salina: They're all cousins.

Nikki: Well, then I can close that.

Salina: We're all cousins.

Salina: All of us.

Nikki: I can make that joke.

Salina: So Vanna White, we all know who she is.

Salina: I just needed to say she makes $10 million a year.

Salina: Did you know that?

Nikki: I knew she made a lot.

Nikki: Which really makes her the smartest one of all of us.

Salina: I know.

Salina: I couldn't stop thinking about it after I looked that up.

Salina: I was like the wrong path.

Salina: Her dance card was full.

Nikki: It was.

Nikki: She's beautiful.

Salina: That's how she's getting 10 million an episode.

Salina: Anyways.

Salina: Bob Barker, host of prices right for 35 years.

Salina: And truth or consequences.

Salina: About 20 years.

Salina: If anybody didn't know about that.

Salina: And the rest of them I'm going to give you guys a break.

Salina: There's other references in the show, but we'll move on.

Salina: So I will let the rest of these go.

Salina: Except for to say that fairy song at the end, you don't know me is so good.

Salina: It reminds me of my best friend's wedding.

Salina: And I think that might be Mickey Gilly singing it.

Salina: And I think I'm more familiar with it's a version by Cindy Walker that's really good.

Salina: So you guys look up Cindy Walker.

Nikki: Not to be confused with Cindy Lopper.

Salina: Not to be confused with Cindy Lopper.

Salina: But you can if you want to cut lines.

Nikki: There are two I'll mention.

Nikki: One is just a glorious dino reference that Suzanne makes when she's telling them to play what is the word?

Nikki: Hard to get?

Nikki: Empty dance card when she's saying telling them to play hard to get.

Nikki: Somebody says, women don't do that anymore.

Nikki: And Suzanne says, oh, Fooie.

Nikki: They do it.

Nikki: They just do it behind Gloria Steinem's back.

Nikki: Thought that was funny given your extra Sugar in season one.

Nikki: And there was a big old cut at the beginning of Charlene and Bill's dinner before the MTV stuff.

Nikki: To your point about that website being challenging, I didn't copy and paste it.

Nikki: It was really long.

Nikki: And I was going to have to transcribe it's too hard.

Nikki: But basically they're showing off pictures of their families.

Nikki: He says he doesn't want to talk about his previous marriage.

Nikki: That's where he mentions a Baptist dress, which is what he says to her when she shows up.

Nikki: When he calls her at the end of the episode, he says, can you wear the Baptist dress?

Nikki: She shows up and he says, that's not a Baptist dress.

Nikki: That's where it's mentioned for the first time.

Nikki: That's why it comes up at all.

Nikki: She's wearing a dress.

Nikki: And he says that doesn't look like basically a dress a Baptist person would wear because it's very revealing and sensual.

Salina: Well, I also felt like that whole part really kind of puts a fine point on the fact he's not ready to talk about his wife.

Salina: So it's dropping some serious hints.

Salina: So it might feel a little less like, whoa, that came out of nowhere.

Nikki: Yeah, I probably should have written the whole line down.

Nikki: But yes, there was a lot in there that made you that opened your eyes to Bill a little bit more, I think, right?

Nikki: Did you have other cut lines?

Salina: Not that I felt like were significant, no.

Nikki: All right.

Nikki: So next episode, episode 15.

Nikki: Oh, brother.

Salina: Oh, brother.

Nikki: So, as always, you can follow along.

Nikki: Engage with us instagram and Facebook at Sweett and TV.

Nikki: Our email address is


Nikki: And next we're going to do Extra Sugar, where we're going to talk about the Hollywood trope of kissing in the rain.

Salina: Well, you know what that means.

Nikki: What?

Salina: It means we'll be talking about kissing in the rain.

Salina: But also it means we'll see you around the bin.

Salina: Bye.

Nikki: You welcome to this week's edition of Extra Sugar.

Nikki: This week, I want to tackle the hallmark of a good romance scene, the kiss in the rain.

Nikki: So in this episode, we don't get the full on, like, rain drenching, the main characters make out scene.

Nikki: We don't get the whole schmooch in the rain.

Nikki: What we get is the rain behind Charlene.

Nikki: She opens the door and you can see it's raining behind her.

Nikki: She's wearing a rain jacket, her hair is slightly wet.

Nikki: And there's a comment by Bill that the weather's turned so they can't make their flight.

Salina: Yes.

Nikki: So I'm counting it.

Nikki: Okay.

Nikki: So I want to be real honest with people that a few months back, Salina and I did a prescreen of all these episodes because of my need to know things in advance.

Nikki: I wanted to map out our extra sugars.

Nikki: We wanted to be really thoughtful about planning them out, making sure they tracked with either something on the calendar, a certain holiday, or something interesting in the episode.

Nikki: So my first knee jerk reaction in this episode was, we got to do something on Hollywood kisses in the rain.

Nikki: And then later Salina came back in and was like, so we talked about doing kisses in the rain.

Nikki: And I was like, yeah, no, that's stupid.

Nikki: We're not doing that.

Nikki: Sorry, that was a dumb idea.

Nikki: And then Salina came back and was like, no, but here was like 14 articles where this is a thing.

Nikki: I was like, yeah, it's a thing.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: So we're doing it.

Nikki: So, I don't know, we'll see where we go from here.

Salina: So here we are.

Nikki: And here we are.

Salina: Hopefully I didn't screw this up.

Nikki: I know.

Nikki: Let's see.

Nikki: So I found a website and it's possible this was one of the links that you shared, Salina, but it's called Tropedia.

Nikki: It defines a kiss in the rain as the hero and heroine.

Nikki: Usually a will they or won't they couple are outdoors when rain or other inclement weather kicks up.

Nikki: They take shelter in the same house, cave or car.

Nikki: And one thing leads to another.

Nikki: This is a subtrope of snowden.

Nikki: It's closely related to together umbrella.

Nikki: See?

Nikki: Also, snow means love and happy rain.

Nikki: adds it's implied that if you can ignore bad weather and brave the elements, then your big moment is even more real, intense and genuine.

Nikki: If you want to be deserving of your love, you won't care if it's raining.

Nikki: You'll rush out into the rain to be with him or her, express what's on your mind and have the big d*** kiss.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Wow.

Salina: There you go.

Nikki: So, Salina, with all that in mind, how would you like to play a game of how many of these epic kisses in the rain have you seen?

Salina: I would love to play that game.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: And I'm just so glad that someone took the time to define this very seriously.

Salina: Right?

Nikki: It's very serious.

Nikki: Okay.

Nikki: So have you ever seen the movie Sliding Doors?

Salina: Oh boy.

Salina: Yes.

Salina: But outside of knowing it was in the late ninety s and star Gwyneth Paltrow, I remember very little about it.

Nikki: Okay, so you don't remember the kiss in the ring?

Salina: I don't even remember who the guy is.

Nikki: I could show you the picture, and you'd probably know him.

Nikki: No, he doesn't look like Red.

Nikki: I've never seen the movie, so I should have started by saying this is a list I found on of the 15 best Kissing in the Rain scenes from movies.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: So the first one is Sliding Door.

Nikki: So I just want to know if you've seen this and if you remember the kiss.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: So I don't remember that.

Nikki: So no sliding door, do you?

Nikki: I've never seen the movie.

Salina: Oh, brain.

Nikki: Although I did hear a really interesting interview with Gwyneth Paltrow on Armchair Expert.

Nikki: She's fantastic.

Nikki: She's I really like her.

Salina: Fascinating.

Salina: She is.

Nikki: She's a multifaceted woman.

Salina: I know I want to pay more attention to Goop and stuff now.

Salina: I also have heard that interview.

Nikki: I feel like goop.

Nikki: People rail on Goop, but I feel like there's more to her than meets the eye.

Salina: Is it possibly like an off mic conversation we had about how people know maybe one inch of a mile and then decide to just jump on the bandwagon?

Nikki: Yes.

Nikki: And they have trouble separating a celebrity's life that's lived off camera that they never get to see with the person they think they know.

Nikki: So she made some comments toward the end about getting into a relationship with her current husband and how they're bringing their families together.

Nikki: And it just made me realize she seems very level headed about the way she's raising her kids, very thoughtful about the way they're merging their families.

Nikki: They didn't just take a staycation to Atlanta and throw them all together.

Nikki: Sorry.

Nikki: Side note.

Nikki: Breakfast at Tiffany's.

Salina: Yes.

Nikki: You've seen that movie and you know the kiss in the Rain?

Salina: Yes.

Nikki: Is it good?

Salina: So good.

Nikki: Super romantic.

Salina: I love that movie so much.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: Yeah, that 01:00 a.m.

Salina: I okay to talk a little bit about it, please.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: That one is really good because, first of all, Breakfast at Tiffany's is iconic.

Salina: It's Audrey Hepburn, if you don't know from sitting in my closet after all these months, I am a fan of Audrey Hepburn.

Salina: All that sounds weird together, but it's okay.

Salina: Anyways.

Salina: And she is a fantastic actor.

Salina: She was a wonderful person in real life.

Salina: I can't say enough good things about her, but I think what was really fantastic in that movie is she had a lot of problems.

Salina: And this idea of overcoming something to be with someone.

Salina: I think also she was just kind of overcoming herself and some problems that she had with love or even just the idea of committing to anything.

Salina: It was very high drama, but it felt warranted.

Salina: It was very good.

Nikki: Yes, sweetheart.

Nikki: Alabama.

Salina: Oh, that's a good one.

Nikki: That's a good one.

Nikki: I have seen this one.

Salina: I forgot about that.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: For a good one.

Nikki: Actually, in thinking about Kisses in the Rain, that's one that came to mind for me.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: There's a Kissing in the Rain scene in Pirates of the caribbean.

Salina: I'm assuming it's with Orlando Bloom and Kira.

Nikki: Yes.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: Best friends or something like Kira.

Nikki: In the middle of a battle on a ship in stormy weather, orlando Bloom grabs Kira Knightley, dips her backward, is inches away from kissing her, and has to turn back to fight off an attacker.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: Yeah, this sounds right.

Nikki: I don't remember that.

Salina: I don't remember, like, Rain, though.

Nikki: I've seen it.

Nikki: I don't really remember that being super.

Nikki: Garden State.

Salina: I have never seen Garden State.

Nikki: I've seen it.

Nikki: I don't remember that kiss.

Nikki: But apparently it is a kiss between Zach Braff and Natalie Portman.

Nikki: It's been a long time since I've seen that movie.

Nikki: Let's see.

Nikki: In the land of women.

Salina: Oh, okay.

Nikki: Adrian Brody.

Salina: I've seen it.

Nikki: No, sorry.

Salina: Adam Brody and Kristen Stewart.

Nikki: Oh, okay.

Salina: Who's the kiss with?

Nikki: It says he falls in love with his cancer ridden cougar next door neighbor, Meg Ryan.

Salina: Yes.

Salina: But he's like I think I think Kristen Stewart is her daughter.

Nikki: Oh, okay.

Nikki: That would make sense.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: This is ringing familiar to me.

Salina: For some reason, I thought they kind of had, like, a thing in that movie.

Salina: Maybe they just had really good chemistry.

Nikki: Do you remember they kissing the rain?

Nikki: Okay.

Nikki: Love Jones.

Salina: I have not seen it.

Nikki: Okay.

Nikki: There's a good kiss in that one, apparently.

Nikki: Spiderman.

Salina: Spiderman, yes.

Nikki: The upside down kiss.

Salina: Yes.

Salina: That was like I would have probably at first thought that was, like, my.

Nikki: Favorite standout, one that doesn't come to mind to me when I think of it.

Nikki: But in all my research for the segment, which, believe it or not, I have researched a lot for the segment.

Nikki: It was one of the ones that just kept popping up, and I was like, It's fine.

Nikki: It's super iconic how Stella got her groove back.

Salina: Seen it.

Salina: Don't remember a kiss in the rain.

Nikki: This one's tay Diggs and Angela Bassett.

Nikki: The Notebook.

Salina: Oh, yeah.

Nikki: When I think of kisses in the rain, that's the one I think of.

Nikki: Super romantic.

Nikki: Noah and Allie.

Salina: I'm going to share an unpopular opinion.

Nikki: I don't think it's unpopular, but go ahead.

Salina: Oh, that's fine.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: I don't think that's an unpopular opinion, really?

Nikki: Because the more time goes on, the thing that we're trying to do thoughtfully and carefully, I think a lot of people are not trying to do thoughtfully and carefully, which is holding that movie to a standard that maybe doesn't track with today.

Nikki: So the way he treats her, the way she treats him, that's not hallmarks of romance.

Nikki: That's just emotional abuse.

Nikki: I don't agree with that.

Nikki: I think it's super romantic.

Salina: Oh, see, I didn't mean for that.

Salina: It wasn't from that kind angle for me.

Salina: We've had this conversation before.

Salina: Sometimes when things are just so popular, and then I go and watch it, I'm like, It was too much hype.

Salina: It was like I just couldn't get there.

Nikki: It's one of the most romantic.

Nikki: Movies I've ever seen.

Salina: Definitely.

Salina: It's romantic.

Salina: I think.

Salina: The other thing is I'm not really into romance that much.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: See, I think I am to an extent, on this one.

Nikki: Really?

Nikki: There's a Netflix movie right now called Christmas in a Castle, and it's Brooke Shields and Carrie Elwez.

Nikki: Carrie Elways, I never say it.

Nikki: Right?

Salina: From Prince's Bride.

Nikki: Right.

Nikki: And I'm like walking on the treadmill, watching this, holding my heart and going, are they or are they not just like that?

Nikki: One of those the quiz at hand.

Nikki: Salina.

Nikki: Cast Away.

Nikki: Do you remember kissing the rain?

Nikki: And cast away what?

Salina: He kissed the ball.

Nikki: It was his wife.

Nikki: So he is cast away, and when he comes back.

Salina: Oh, this is like my tiny door definition.

Salina: Keep going.

Nikki: See, it's not just me he's abandoned on an island.

Nikki: Well, she finds love while he's gone, and I think that when he comes back, they share a kiss in the rain where they basically let each other go.

Nikki: I vaguely remember it.

Nikki: Matchpoint.

Salina: I have seen it.

Salina: Yes.

Nikki: I did not enjoy that movie.

Nikki: Apparently there's a Scarlett Johansson Jonathan Reese Myers kiss in the rain.

Nikki: It's weird.

Nikki: The whole movie is weird.

Salina: It's really weird.

Nikki: Dear John.

Nikki: Another one of the Nicholas sparks.

Nikki: I saw it on a plane.

Nikki: It's romantic.

Nikki: It's Channing Tatum and the girl whose name I can't remember.

Salina: Is it?

Salina: Amanda cyfried.

Nikki: Yes, that's her.

Nikki: We covered sliding Doors, and I think we're down to we have two more rate expectations.

Nikki: This is Gwyneth patrol again.

Salina: And Ethan.

Salina: Yeah, I think I saw that.

Salina: I don't remember a kiss in the rain.

Salina: There are like three and I don't remember liking it.

Nikki: Cool.

Salina: But that was a really adult movie for me to be watching at, like, twelve.

Nikki: And then Australia with Nicole Kidman and Hugh Jackman.

Salina: I never saw that.

Nikki: I have never heard of this.

Nikki: But apparently they kiss in the rain.

Nikki: Very romantic.

Nikki: I should have been keeping track of how many that you've seen.

Nikki: Seemed like a fair amount.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: There's no prize or anything.

Nikki: There's no prize or anything.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: Do you have an all time favorite?

Salina: So I have three that I put on the list that stick out for me.

Salina: Two you talked about one you didn't.

Salina: And I think I know why.

Salina: You didn't share the last one.

Salina: We'll get there.

Salina: But Breakfast at Tiffany's is on my list.

Salina: Spider man is on my list.

Salina: And then Bridget Jones.

Nikki: Oh, you know, that was on a couple of lists I read.

Salina: Technically snow, so technically precipitation.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: So I'm going to count it.

Nikki: Some people counted it.

Nikki: I would count it.

Salina: I think that one is going to be my favorite.

Salina: And here's why.

Salina: Because it is romantic, but it's my kind of romantic where there's like a slice of not realistic realistic to it.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: Which is have you seen Princeton Jones?

Salina: Okay.

Salina: Do you remember that scene?

Nikki: I don't.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: So it's at the very end, she slides.

Nikki: She, like, falls involved.

Nikki: Is that the second one?

Salina: I don't remember a fall.

Salina: She could maybe, like, trip a little.

Nikki: Something very unlady like, I feel like happens.

Salina: I'm getting there.

Salina: Okay, so I didn't know that that falling was you fell and broke your arm.

Salina: You're not even a lady.

Salina: But anyway, so she realizes that Mark Darcy is the one.

Salina: It's not important what happens.

Salina: Spoiler alert for a 2001 movie.

Salina: But she races down because he's already left.

Salina: It's London.

Salina: It's snowing.

Salina: When she runs downstairs, she doesn't put on any pants because she's so excited.

Salina: She just throws on, like, a long cardigan and she runs down an underwear because that's just the kind of character she is, where she's so absent minded and just so focused on something else that she gets down there.

Salina: She starts giving her whole mumble love diatribe and then realizes she has no pants on.

Salina: And to me, that's love, guys.

Salina: Love means forgetting to put on pants when you run outside to kiss someone in the snow.

Nikki: The reason I bring up lady like that might not have been the right word.

Nikki: I remember it being something sort of like undignified.

Nikki: Something like all of these other kisses.

Salina: She doesn't have pants on.

Nikki: She's in public dignified public indecency.

Nikki: The definition of undignified.

Nikki: No.

Nikki: All of these other romantic scenes, all the conditions are almost perfect, right.

Nikki: And it's the moment that everything swells together.

Nikki: And I think that's what makes that one stand out, is that it's so on brand for Bridget Jones.

Nikki: Yes.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: That's a good one.

Nikki: My I also had three.

Nikki: The Notebook is, like, the number one one for me.

Nikki: When I think romance, whatever its issues are, whatever people's issues are with, it's a romantic movie.

Nikki: It is what it is.

Nikki: It is so romantic.

Nikki: And when they kiss, it's pure romance.

Nikki: That sweeth home Alabama one I also.

Salina: Really love really good.

Nikki: It was so good.

Nikki: Where they just realized they love each other.

Nikki: The way he picks her up.

Nikki: She's so tiny.

Nikki: Reese Witherspoon, he picks her up.

Salina: Oh, my gosh.

Nikki: And there's a really good one on Schitt's Creek.

Nikki: Alexis and Mut kiss in the rain.

Nikki: That's really romantic too.

Nikki: So back to designing women.

Nikki: On a scale of one to ten, big d*** kisses, where would you put this one?

Nikki: Between Charlene and Bill and ten being.

Salina: Like ten my favorite.

Salina: Right?

Nikki: Being breakfast at Tiffany's.

Salina: Like, a four.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: Any explanation?

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: I mean oh, maybe I should I don't know.

Nikki: I just you don't have to let me give mine.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: I give mine a six.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: Well, not mine.

Nikki: I give this a six.

Nikki: I think it was just a hint of rain.

Nikki: I like the full on downpour.

Nikki: Sure.

Nikki: In this one, it was just a hint of rain.

Nikki: Just that, like, background.

Nikki: She's a little bit wet, this implication.

Nikki: So I appreciate the full on downpour.

Nikki: But it was really romantic the way they came back together.

Salina: It was if I'm putting Bridget Jones, which also happens to be one of my very favorite movies, at the Tippy Top, and then I can't this just doesn't compete close to that.

Salina: But I do agree that it was romantic.

Salina: Dang, I gave the episode a high score.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: Actually, I probably would revise mine to a five, maybe a four.

Nikki: I think four is more of a fair score, actually.

Nikki: You may have talked me down.

Nikki: I want to talk about one more thing, which is only sort of relevant and only sort of supported by anything.

Nikki: And I kind of alluded to this during the episode, but I mentioned that I feel like Charlene's living in a fairy tale right now.

Nikki: I wanted to look back at her storyline a little bit and point to the specific tropes that it's hitting, because everything about her storyline lately, I'm just like, oh, yeah, of course that happened.

Nikki: Okay.

Nikki: Oh, yeah, of course that happened.

Nikki: So I spent some time with romantic tropes and Romcom tropes.

Nikki: I think I've already established there are some websites that really take this stuff very seriously.

Nikki: Truly, I didn't find very much to support my theory, but I'm sticking with this theory all the same.

Nikki: One of the romantic tropes is a soldier is a man in uniform.

Nikki: The trope itself, though, is that it's the war, it's the battle, it's the something that takes him away from his love.

Salina: Sure.

Nikki: We sort of got that in the World War II episode.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: They exploited it in her dream, so that kind of counts.

Nikki: And he's a soldier, so that feels to me like, of course he's a soldier.

Nikki: Feels romantical.

Nikki: Another thing is his widow.

Nikki: So the whole idea of, like a broken man sort of pining for love and trying to figure out what to do next, that's a thing that's ringing some kind of belt with me.

Nikki: Charlene being kind of the ultimate example of chaste and pure.

Nikki: She feels like this is such a tacky way of saying it, but like a prize for a man.

Nikki: That's what every man wants.

Nikki: And so I feel like there's something there that she feels so pure and she's going to have this very romantic relationship with him, which feels trophy.

Salina: Yeah, no, I agree with that.

Salina: I also think that it's sort of setting up that I think purity is a good word for the widow thing.

Salina: He's not divorced.

Nikki: Right.

Salina: Because then someone would have done something wrong.

Nikki: Right.

Salina: And that's why they used to set up widow situations and television shows and movies.

Salina: And it was never divorced because that was bad.

Nikki: Yeah, that's a good point.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: So, I don't know, I just wanted to touch on that because I feel like every time her story wrinkles or every time something happens, I'm like, yeah, this feels about right to me.

Nikki: I like it because I like predictable.

Nikki: I have anxiety.

Nikki: So I like to be able to say, like, I know what's coming next.

Nikki: I don't like the surprises.

Nikki: So I like that.

Nikki: But I could see where someone who's maybe a little bit more critical of things than I am would be a little put off by that.

Salina: So I will tell you that someone might call me critical and maybe not liking necessarily, like, an easy storyline, but I feel like Charlene has also had a number of stumbling blocks, too.

Salina: We talked about that in the episode.

Salina: And so for that reason, I feel like if a character has to, quote, unquote, earn something, I feel like she's been earning it.

Nikki: Yeah, no, I completely agree with you.

Nikki: I said in the episode, I'm here for her fairy tale.

Nikki: I like it.

Nikki: I just think this was a nice opportunity to stop and kind of say to point this out, because tropes really are real.

Nikki: They are something that kind of pervade our pop culture society.

Nikki: Like, you see these things as you're watching shows, and I ended up on those trope websites, and I was just sort of looking at some of the other tropes.

Nikki: There's, like a whole page about Designing Women and the tropes that this incidentally wasn't on there.

Nikki: But there are other Hollywood tropes that they leverage for this show, so it's just kind of cool to know about them.

Nikki: And it's funny that Kisses in the Rain was just, like, the first thing that I thought of, and it turns out it's a real thing.

Nikki: I've turned a 15 minutes segment.

Nikki: I don't know if it's real, but I've made a segment out of it.

Salina: I'm so glad we talked about it.

Salina: I think it's fun.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: One of us tends to have serious extra sugars sometimes.

Salina: So I think that it was I'm glad that even though you thought it was a stupid idea for a second.

Nikki: I don't think it is so mean to myself, too.

Nikki: I was like, what an idiot.

Nikki: Who thought of this?

Nikki: So, anyway, Charlene life's a romance that has been this edition of extra sugar.


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