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Designing Women S2 E5 - Swirling, Twirling, and “Being Concerned with the Sadness in the World”

Updated: Aug 14, 2023

Our "Designing Women" and poor Anthony have a knack for finding the most eccentric clients. This time it comes in the form of Mr. Tyson, who enjoys painting stick figure portraits and giving away anything that happens to be in his pocket at the time. Did we mention he falls in love easily? Meanwhile, Bernice shows up looking for help--and boy is that a mouthful.

Stick around for this week’s "Extra Sugar" where we’ll talk about Alice Ghostley, who played Bernice. Here are a few great reads on this quirky, Hollywood legend:

Come on, let’s get into it!



Salina: Hey, Nikki.

Nikki: Hey, Salina.

Salina: And hello, everyone.

Nikki: Hey.

Nikki: I was going to say hey, y'all, but I always say that, so I'm just going to say hey.

Salina: Oh, it's even better.

Salina: I actually was just thinking about other podcasts and realized that we never are.

Salina: Like, welcome to the sweet tea and TV podcast.

Nikki: Oh.

Salina: So just in case you don't know.

Nikki: Where you are, just in case you didn't see the logo when you opened up your phone and your podcast app, and then you specifically came here to watch this episode right.

Nikki: Or the sweet TNTV podcast.

Salina: Right.

Salina: Copyright trademark.

Salina: No, none of those things are not that.

Salina: Yeah, you could steal it if you want to, but please don't.

Nikki: Please don't.

Nikki: I think it's intellectual property or something.

Nikki: We have some kind of ownership over it, even though we don't have the paperwork yet.

Salina: Okay, good to know.

Salina: So we are here at episode five.

Salina: Episode five, season two, and it's going to be half an air bubble.

Salina: Off is the name of the episode.

Salina: But before we get into that, let's continue on with Mr.

Salina: Proust and his survey.

Salina: Everyone get on your thinking caps because we're going to do a little introspection.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: Nikki.

Nikki: Yeah?

Salina: Are you ready for your first?

Salina: You're like me when you make me play a game.

Nikki: I get super nervous about to.

Salina: And I could really just ask you anything because you don't know what the proof survey questions are.

Salina: I'm not going to, but I don't.

Nikki: Want to have another Taylor Swift debacle when your answer is like, someone saving the world.

Nikki: And I'm like, I'd love to meet Taylor Swift and ask her what it's like being a millionaire.

Nikki: Just curious.

Nikki: Okay, I'm ready.

Salina: Curious minds.

Salina: It's okay.

Salina: All right.

Salina: On what occasion do you lie?

Nikki: God.

Nikki: Oh.

Nikki: So it is a toughie that is hard.

Nikki: I do not lie often.

Nikki: I think I am most likely to tell a white lie about my schedule, about busyness.

Salina: Tell me more.

Nikki: In the sense of wanting to cover for myself so I don't have to go out and do something like protecting my time.

Salina: So you're an introvert?

Nikki: Yes.

Nikki: Okay.

Nikki: Absolutely.

Nikki: And it just wears me out.

Nikki: And so if I've had a really long work week and someone invites me somewhere and I don't want to, like before the pandemic, I thought you were.

Salina: About to say just like, anytime it happens, pretty much.

Nikki: That's probably when I'm most likely to lie.

Salina: I'm going to tell you.

Salina: So Nikki and I have been friends a decade, and if we hadn't started this podcast, I would never have seen her on a weekend.

Nikki: It's so bad.

Salina: It is bad.

Salina: Okay, so the first thing is you say you don't lie often.

Salina: I feel like I'm about to throw an interrogation.

Salina: No.

Salina: So my question is, so you've heard that thing that's, like, the average person tells over 200 lies a day.

Nikki: Have you heard that?

Salina: You've heard that, right?

Nikki: Probably at some point.

Nikki: I mean, I don't remember it if I did.

Nikki: Okay, but do you think that's possible, 200 lies?

Salina: Well, so I think lies are like you could be like the little things because you're talking about a little lie, right.

Salina: You're not talking about something that's like, yeah, or like if someone says, oh, do I look good in this?

Salina: And you're like, Absolutely, you look great because you don't want to hurt their feelings.

Salina: I'm saying that's a kind of lie that people tell.

Salina: So anyways, I was just curious.

Nikki: That seems like a lot.

Salina: It does feel like a lot.

Salina: I don't know about 200.

Nikki: I'm in the after times where we don't really see people outside our family.

Nikki: I am very unlikely to ever tell a lie to my close family and friends.

Nikki: Those are the people I feel like I can be most honest with.

Nikki: But like, people you run into out in the like when I'm small talking, I exaggerate.

Nikki: I'm Southern.

Nikki: I exaggerate.

Nikki: Or I might just say something to make someone feel comfortable, like out at Walmart or whatever.

Nikki: Just like someone tries to start conversation with me.

Nikki: So I'm like, oh, yeah, I love playing soccer and I don't play.

Nikki: I know it's a fairly bad example, but yeah, I love to eat whatever because we're in the aisle where they have those things.

Nikki: So I could see a lot of little lies as you go about your day, seeing people you don't know.

Nikki: Yeah, but like in COVID times, if you're lying 200 times a day and you're only seeing your husband, that's a red flag.

Salina: That's true.

Salina: We don't know what the number of lies are now.

Salina: Yeah, I don't know if that person who calculated that has calculated today.

Salina: Right.

Salina: So mine on what occasion do I lie?

Salina: I think it is probably to save feelings would be mine and still it would still be really hard for me.

Salina: It's just really hard for me to not be I don't want to say brutally honest, but it's really hard for me to just completely cover up like a feeling or emotion.

Salina: It's just not who I am.

Salina: So I'm probably going to tell you some version, but I guess you could count that as a lie because I do try and smooth it up a bit.

Nikki: You're framing it?

Salina: Yeah, I like to frame it in a way that's less hurtful because if we're talking, I probably care about you because we're not talking.

Salina: That's all you need to know.

Nikki: I think that's a great point about filtering possibly being considered a lie, because I do a lot of filtering.

Nikki: I do a lot of like I don't tell people what's going on in my head and I do a lot of filtering to make things more palatable for people or more comfortable.

Nikki: Also.

Nikki: You just don't need to know what's in my head.

Nikki: So if that counts as a lie, I might lie a little bit more.

Salina: I am honestly afraid I do so much filtering that I think besides being buried alive and whatever I said before was my worst fear when we played this before.

Salina: And I don't remember right now, but I think it's like not having a memory anymore and everything just coming out I think is like one of the scariest thoughts ever for me.

Nikki: But then people would say like, well, you know, Selena, I wouldn't know also.

Nikki: That's true.

Salina: Still, it's just like it terrifies me.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: So that's how much I filter it's.

Nikki: Right up there with text messages to your best friend getting revealed to the like you know in criminal court cases when they have to reveal text, there's some big case recently where they had to share the text messages and it was just mortifying.

Nikki: I think it was that lady from the biomedical company Theranos.

Nikki: And they released her text messages to this man and she is like waxing poetic about her love for him and he's like cool, see you later.

Nikki: That's like the worst oh, I can't it gives me the heebie GB's.

Nikki: Yeah, but we're not talking worst nightmares.

Salina: Right?

Salina: Well, I'm sure that's somewhere in the survey.

Salina: Okay, you ready for the second question?

Nikki: I'm ready.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: What do you most dislike about your appearance?

Nikki: I didn't write have to go here today.

Salina: Well, blame proust.

Salina: He won't care.

Salina: He's dead.

Nikki: Something that just drives me crazy is my nose.

Nikki: I cannot stand it.

Nikki: It just drives me crazy.

Nikki: I think some people grow into their faces and their features and whatever.

Nikki: I actually think my nose is getting longer the older I get.

Salina: Oh, that's actually true.

Nikki: Oh my God.

Salina: Oh, sorry.

Salina: There's only never do that on the human body that continue to grow past when you grow hold on, hold on.

Nikki: Stop growing.

Salina: Okay, so you got the nose.

Nikki: Obviously I was going to say ears, but that doesn't feel is it your ears?

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: So your nose and your ears.

Nikki: Cool.

Salina: That's something that you don't like about yourself, guys.

Nikki: Cool.

Nikki: I might be getting surgery.

Nikki: It just drives me crazy.

Nikki: I don't know.

Salina: Well, I think you're lovely thing one.

Nikki: Thanks Selena.

Salina: For me, I'm like, how much time do you have?

Nikki: Well, that's it.

Nikki: I have to just jump right into the one that I have to see every day.

Salina: And I said, what do you most dislike?

Nikki: I didn't see it.

Nikki: Give me the whole through the corner of my eye.

Nikki: That's how bad my nose is.

Nikki: I can see it.

Nikki: I see it right now.

Nikki: Oh my God, look at it.

Nikki: It's like pinocchio.

Salina: What's so weird because when I look forward, I can see the cellulite on the back of my thighs.

Salina: So how do you think I feel?

Salina: So I would say for me it's like my face.

Salina: I really should have come up with a good third question that's like tell me something awesome about today.

Salina: Anyways, I didn't it's just lackluster.

Nikki: First of all, I think you're entitled to feel whatever you feel about your appearance.

Nikki: You have to look at yourself every day in the mirror.

Nikki: Keeping in mind, though, other people look at you more than you look at yourself.

Nikki: I think your face is just who you think.

Salina: Me in particular, just everybody.

Nikki: But you also like you're, Selena, that's your face.

Nikki: It's just what you look like.

Nikki: There's nothing wrong with it.

Nikki: It's who you are.

Nikki: I think it's a lovely face.

Salina: Well, you know what I think part of it is, and I think we've talked about this before, and perhaps here, so you're welcome, listener, in case you didn't catch this part, because we do talk and talk and talk and talk when you look in the mirror, you get a mirror image.

Salina: Yes.

Salina: So if you're not perfectly symmetrical and hardly any of us are otherwise we'd be movie stars when that's the case, it feels off to you.

Salina: In fact, if I can turn a picture like, you know how you have the ability to flip it around?

Salina: If I'll turn a picture of myself and flip it around, it looks less horrible to me because I'm used to seeing that side of my face on that side.

Salina: So I think that is part of it.

Nikki: Fascinating.

Salina: It really is, but all right, guys, I hope that that was a real lift up for you.

Salina: Okay, let's do something.

Salina: Let's do something.

Salina: This might be the next question, and I don't know.

Salina: So I'm sorry.

Salina: But, everyone, what's the thing that you love the most about yourself?

Salina: Think about it.

Salina: It's the thing we love about you the most too.

Salina: Anyways, I don't know.

Salina: I was just trying to do something fun.

Nikki: Trying to turn it around.

Nikki: Why don't we turn it around by talking about a kind of funny episode of Designing Women.

Salina: And that's why she's the Queen of Transitions.

Nikki: So this episode is half an air bubble off the Hulu episode description is at the same time, the women are being driven crazy by an eccentric client with bizarre decorating requests.

Nikki: Feisty Bernice Clifton announces she's entering a beauty contest for senior citizens and needs their advice and sponsorship.

Nikki: The IMDb description is an eccentric client falls in love with Julia while Bernice enters a beauty pageant for senior citizens.

Nikki: It aired october 19, 1987.

Nikki: You look like you have something to say about these descriptions.

Salina: Oh, I was just going to say that second one.

Salina: How succinct.

Nikki: Yes.

Nikki: Also only half the story for that second one because sure, he falls in love with Julia.

Salina: This is why I keep pulling both of them now.

Nikki: Yeah, that's smart.

Salina: I think we have to fuse them together.

Nikki: So this one was written by LBT.

Nikki: And directed by Harry Thomason.

Salina: They've been busy.

Salina: I think almost every single one has.

Nikki: Been just been the two of them.

Nikki: Has it?

Nikki: Probably should know that.

Salina: No, it's ridiculous.

Nikki: So you want to jump into some general reactions.

Nikki: So what did you think?

Nikki: What was your general reaction to this episode?

Salina: I really only have one.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: It's awfully specific now that I'm looking back at it.

Salina: So you're going to be like, great, Selena, thanks for sharing.

Salina: I'll just tee my own self up.

Nikki: Let me just be clear.

Nikki: I only have one general reaction, and then I have a lot of stray observations.

Salina: Oh, we're on the same page.

Nikki: Same page.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: So just that it's the second time that Mary Jo hands over a client because Julia thinks she can do it.

Salina: Oh, the last time was with the really rich oh.

Salina: At the end of season one and the Tates.

Nikki: See, this is very specific, but I think you're tapping into something big.

Salina: Thank you for giving me that.

Salina: And then Julia pretty quickly gives them back, which is basically the last time I think everybody kind of, like, threw their hands up about the, um but it's this guess, you know, julia thinks she can do it better.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: A difficult person is a difficult person.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: So that was mine.

Salina: What's yours?

Nikki: Oh, mine was the difference between eccentrics and crazy.

Nikki: I think that was such a fascinating discussion how the difference between basically it almost seems like eccentric is a term that was developed in the south to talk about crazy people is the way they explain it in the show, but nicer.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: Well, so is yours, like, just the tone over it over the entire episode, or was it something specific that someone said?

Salina: There's a reason I'm asking.

Nikki: Well, I'm going to need to know your reason because I'm not sure how to answer the question.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: So the reason I'm asking is because I think you could argue that the whole episode sort of is talking about eccentricities.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: Because we have two very eccentric characters that come together.

Nikki: This is like the meeting of the eccentrics.

Salina: Absolutely.

Salina: So I say that because I think you could certainly say that that's the point of view you're coming from, since we're talking about it.

Salina: This is in another section for me, but I'm just going to go ahead and bring it up now.

Salina: Is this idea that a specific thing that was said by Charlene was hilarious, and it was, like, one of my favorite lines of the entire episode.

Salina: And it was about the difference between eccentricities or eccentrics in the south and in the north.

Salina: Do you know the line?

Nikki: I don't know.

Nikki: It off the top of my head.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: So Charlene says.

Salina: I mean, if you live in New York City or La.

Salina: You might call yourself something like son of Sam and be a mass murderer.

Salina: But if you're an eccentric and, say, poplar Bluff, Missouri, then you just have a name like Nub or Digger and you ride around in a little wagon.

Salina: And I just thought that was amazing.

Salina: And especially if you're, like, from the south, you probably know a nub.

Nikki: You've known a nub or a digger.

Salina: That's all I'm saying.

Nikki: Then later, Julia says he is of the nub or digger variety.

Nikki: And then later, again, she says he is not a nub or nub or a digger.

Nikki: I loved how they just kept coming back to it.

Nikki: But, yeah, that was what was so funny to me because that was so spot on.

Nikki: I do think a serial killer is slightly different than this man who wants a wardrobe, a glass wardrobe, which also, as we get into stray observations, I'll say I didn't think that was the craziest request in the world.

Salina: I have the exact same stray observation.

Nikki: They acted like he was asking them for a pedestal he could stand on in front of the mirror, in front of the window or something naked, something really crazy.

Nikki: And it was just like he wants to look at his clothes.

Salina: It just seemed really modern to me.

Nikki: Yeah, that was so now, that was my overall observation about the episode, was just like that sort of meeting of the eccentrics, introducing a whole new eccentric character so that we can see how normal and not normal Bernice is all at the same time.

Nikki: Because next to this man, sometimes Bernice almost seemed normal.

Nikki: He was a little off the rocker.

Salina: Right.

Salina: A different yes.

Nikki: Yes.

Nikki: We got a throwback to the fact that Bernice lives in the same place as Julia and Suzanne's mother.

Nikki: We haven't really talked about that since Thanksgiving.

Nikki: Since the season one Thanksgiving episode.

Salina: What's the excuse they give is, like.

Nikki: She'S been in Europe.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: And so she's like, that's a big move.

Salina: Right?

Salina: Do we ever know exactly where they live?

Salina: It's pretty far away, right?

Salina: It's enough that they have to take a plane.

Salina: So all I'm saying is, doesn't she live wherever Julius and Suzanne's mom does Bernice?

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: So, like, this idea that your best friend goes out of town so you move to presumably another state until they.

Nikki: Return is, wow, you're blowing my mind right now.

Nikki: Because actually, I hadn't processed that.

Nikki: They're presumably where they all live together in this senior village, like you said in that Thanksgiving episode.

Nikki: There was quite a lot made of the fact that they live kind of far away.

Salina: So she's, like, come out here for them to take to look after her.

Nikki: Is this an inconsistency in the storyline?

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: It's possible that someone would do that.

Salina: But that feels like a life change, right?

Salina: They're just trying to find a way to bring her into the show.

Salina: But it does feel like a little bit of a really?

Salina: Is that the way that would work?

Nikki: I don't know.

Nikki: Well, there you go.

Nikki: I won't belabor the point, except to say I had totally I think I just glossed over the fact that they presumably lived at the same place and I think it's because now my brain is broken and I just didn't understand the logistics.

Salina: All of our brains are broken in 2021.

Nikki: This is true.

Salina: What else do you have?

Nikki: Mr.

Nikki: Tyson said, I like her swagger.

Nikki: Did that feel super modern to you?

Salina: Well, I think swagger might be like I think that is kind of like a 1940s term.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: That what is old is new again.

Nikki: So I didn't assume that we invented swagger, but it just struck me as something like I've just never heard an old person say that.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: Ever.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: He also said the word titillated.

Salina: Don't ever say that again.

Nikki: Just outlaw it.

Nikki: Can we just outlaw it?

Salina: It's terrible.

Nikki: But now I'm going to work it in.

Salina: Oh, I bet you you are perfect.

Salina: Oh, that sounded weirder than I meant for it.

Salina: Go on with that titillating.

Salina: It would be.

Nikki: Do you remember when Julia gasped when Mr.

Nikki: Tyson snuck up on oh.

Salina: Uh huh.

Salina: I do.

Nikki: That's one of the funniest pieces of physical acting I've seen in this show.

Nikki: Oh, okay.

Nikki: I nearly died.

Nikki: I watched it three times in a row.

Nikki: Did you not find it as funny as I did?

Salina: Well, I'm afraid to tell you how long it's been since I've seen this episode.

Nikki: Now I see.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: So I'll have to go back and look at that one.

Nikki: What are some of your stray observations?

Salina: Well, maybe it was in the last episode, or I don't remember now, but I said, let's track the use of off the beam.

Nikki: Oh, right.

Salina: So this was the second use.

Salina: I also looked that up because why not?

Salina: And off the beam means incorrect or mistaken off base.

Salina: But they're using it as a synonym for crazy.

Salina: Yes.

Salina: Which feels like maybe they're just trying to be nicer about it.

Nikki: I don't know.

Salina: And then I actually think the most Southern thing to say, for whatever it's worth, would be like, he ain't.

Salina: Yeah, like that feels like the most Southern.

Salina: Actually, we get another Cosby Show reference from Bernice who's also mentioned it before.

Nikki: Oh, is it her who's mentioned it.

Salina: Before in the Thanksgiving episode?

Salina: Well and we've get a few mentions of The Cosby Show, so maybe LBT was just a big Cosby fan at the time.

Salina: At the time?

Salina: 1987 was a different time.

Salina: I only had one other thing.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: Well, you tell me.

Salina: Do you want to talk about this at all?

Salina: Mr.

Salina: Tyson did a lot of different things over the course of this episode that were deemed eccentric, and I wrote them all down.

Nikki: Oh, good.

Nikki: Good.

Nikki: Because I didn't think any of them were really that weird.

Salina: Okay, let's go through them and let's decide.

Salina: Okay, so we already talked about the glass wardrobe.

Salina: Not weird.

Nikki: She was so put off by that.

Nikki: It's just not designing a glass wardrobe.

Nikki: Right.

Salina: It's not like you're designing one made of hair.

Salina: Right, then.

Salina: Yes.

Salina: Call the police.

Nikki: He's making me make one out of toothpick.

Nikki: This does sound hard.

Salina: And watching me assemble it.

Salina: Yeah, like that would be terrible.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: So I did think this was funny and it made me laugh.

Salina: So he made Anthony sit half a day to paint his portrait.

Salina: And then after 6 hours, Anthony realizes he's only drawn a stick figure and a top hat.

Nikki: And they had the picture.

Salina: It was wonderful.

Nikki: It was great.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: So I really like that one.

Salina: He made Mary Jo put bathing suits on the nude, so they weren't bathing.

Nikki: Suits, they were strips of.

Salina: Don'T.

Salina: It's just it maybe somebody thinks it's also weird to have nude figures around.

Salina: So I guess you think that's weird.

Salina: Depends on who you are and what walk of life you're coming from.

Nikki: See, this is true.

Nikki: I would never have a naked person in my home on the walls.

Nikki: That's just weird.

Nikki: I really don't often have naked people in general.

Salina: You just took it from me.

Salina: She wasn't going to let me have it, guys.

Salina: I was really going to try.

Salina: I had five good zingers in my back pocket, but you'll never know them now.

Nikki: If you were at my house, you wouldn't have a back pocket.

Salina: That's right, because you're naked all the time.

Salina: And she's also just trying to rope me into saying naked because she thinks.

Nikki: It'S funny over and over again.

Salina: So he wants them to design a canvas halter top for the fire hydrant in front of his house.

Salina: Well, that's kind of weird.

Nikki: That is weird.

Nikki: I'll give that one.

Salina: I love this one too.

Salina: Taking he and Anthony through the car wash several times and then having their picture taken with everyone.

Salina: I think there's a reason for that, but we'll get into that in the references portion.

Salina: So hold me accountable.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: He gives Anthony a candlestick, rope and revolver from his personal game of Clue and they're like randomly in his pocket.

Nikki: I think that's wonderful.

Salina: My voice just got really high so it made it sound like I didn't mean it.

Nikki: But I mean it they're just takeaways.

Salina: He wants aluminum foil on his walls.

Salina: I do think that's where it starts to get weird.

Nikki: That got a little weird, but he had a reason for it.

Salina: What was it?

Nikki: Lightning was going to strike.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: I don't remember why the aluminum it's happened before.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: It feels like that would bring not help.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: Okay.

Nikki: I agree.

Nikki: Conductor and whatnot he gives Anthony the.

Salina: Identification card that came with his wallet.

Salina: I love all of his interactions with like okay.

Nikki: I would classify that one as eccentric.

Nikki: Like that the clue thing.

Nikki: Just like goofy little things that he does.

Nikki: Maybe the halter top for the fire hydrant and the putting CLOBs over the naked characters.

Nikki: I actually wonder if that's like he doth protest too much.

Nikki: Like if he's over sexualized in some way.

Nikki: So maybe he's a little bit crazy.

Salina: Oh, that's interesting.

Salina: Well, or also, in every instance with Anthony, I was like, or you could just give him a tip because he keeps driving you around, so you just tip them.

Nikki: Maybe he thinks he is.

Salina: That really sounds like old rich people to me.

Nikki: I think he thinks, here's some lint.

Salina: From my pocket and this is how I've maintained my wealth.

Salina: I don't give any of it to anyone.

Nikki: Maybe he's not wealthy anymore.

Nikki: It's possible.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: So that was all of them.

Nikki: I see.

Nikki: He just sounds just weird little guy.

Salina: Right.

Salina: Of course.

Salina: If we sent him over to you and then he fell in love with you and was following you around like a lovesick puppy you might be just a tinganoid.

Nikki: Can I call you Julia?

Nikki: What about sugar?

Nikki: It's too far.

Nikki: It's too much.

Salina: Unless Bakers is on the end.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: So let's talk about what we liked.

Nikki: Okay.

Nikki: Bernice.

Nikki: You like Bernice Oliver?

Nikki: Man, she's just great.

Nikki: I laughed really hard at the idea of her teaching herself how to drive and her line about, like you can only get the bird flicked at you so many times before it starts to hurt your feelings.

Salina: Ain't that the truth?

Nikki: And then updating her childhood diary was one of her hobbies that was mentioned during the.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: Quirky.

Nikki: These are quirky, eccentric things LBT.

Salina: Really writes very well for.

Salina: Like, she really gives her some justice.

Nikki: This has to be based on someone that LBT.

Nikki: Has known in her life.

Salina: Oh, maybe.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: Maybe one day we'll know.

Nikki: Maybe.

Nikki: Come on, LBT.

Nikki: Tell us all your secrets.

Salina: I know I do.

Salina: I want to know all your secrets.

Nikki: And so on that note of Bernice I thought the senior beauty pageant was really funny.

Salina: It was really good.

Nikki: I thought Bernice's whole package was great.

Nikki: Like how she originally wanted to eat fire but her doctor was afraid there would be a denture explosion.

Nikki: So she switched to pounding on her face and, like, making the tune of Dixie.

Salina: Can I add one thing about BerniceA?

Salina: I thought my favorite was her saying out loud I'm swirling, I'm twirling.

Salina: I'm being concerned with sadness in the world.

Salina: All while doing her pageant walk.

Nikki: It's one of the cut lines where that came from.

Nikki: And I wish we had seen more.

Nikki: And we'll get into that when we get to cut lines.

Nikki: But I wish we had seen that because I think it would make it it was funny on its own, but it would have been extra funny to have had the cut part.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: So all of mine are Bernice based too.

Nikki: Sure.

Salina: The other one that I had was so all of our designing women are feeling bad at the end because the crux of this episode, if anybody didn't watch it, is this idea that Bernice is, like, asking everyone for help or just to show up and support her and everybody keeps blowing her off or they don't have time.

Salina: And she gives this whole speech at the end about how she's so lucky to have daughters or like, she never had children of her own, but these are basically, like, her stand in daughters and she cares about them so much.

Salina: And the big reveal in the end is that Mr.

Salina: Tyson, who they have now set up and they're, like, kind of dating, told her to do that and she just lied so that she could win the pageant.

Salina: And I thought that was perfect.

Salina: And that is the sophistication and wit of LBT.

Salina: Doing LBT.

Salina: At the height of LBT.

Nikki: Yeah, that was great.

Salina: So that was all of my likes.

Salina: Did you have any others?

Nikki: No, I think that was it.

Nikki: And I only had one thing that was a dislike and it was kind of maybe not fair, but I disliked the stuff we didn't get to see from the beauty pageant.

Nikki: So her doing her talent, I would have loved to have seen that.

Nikki: Or like I said, one of the cut lines was she and Suzanne and Bernice are, like, preparing for the pageant.

Nikki: And right before Mr.

Nikki: Tyson walks in, bernice is swirling in her dress.

Nikki: And that is one of the things that Suzanne coaches her and says, like, you want to swirl?

Nikki: You want to give them this look like, I'm enjoying myself, I'm having so much fun, but I'm still concerned about the and, like, that was the coaching that Suzanne gave her.

Nikki: So that's what makes it extra funny.

Nikki: Like, we were talking earlier about losing your filter.

Nikki: Bernice has no filter.

Nikki: So it comes out that, like, I'm going to narrate what I'm doing so that you remember I'm doing all the things I'm supposed to be doing.

Nikki: And I hated that we didn't get to see all of that together.

Salina: I totally agree.

Salina: We have the same things.

Salina: So I think that is an absolute loss for the show, is I would have loved to have spent about four minutes of real estate on her teaching.

Salina: Yes, Bernice, it was totally worth the time.

Salina: This actually, I think, comes from a misunderstanding for me because obviously I don't write sitcoms, but they always have, like, an A plot and a B plot.

Salina: And this is one of those instances where I'm like, but do we need all of that in 22 minutes?

Salina: Could we not just and maybe I think that's kind of like the way maybe comedy has gone.

Salina: I'm not saying there isn't B plots, but they don't always have to have them.

Salina: And I think that now comedy kind of has it's not as broad.

Salina: I feel like they really try and hone in on a situation and really make it sing.

Salina: And I would love to see, what would LBT.

Salina: Do with this episode today and would she put the same emphasis on everything?

Salina: Because I really did like the.

Salina: Stuff with Mr.

Salina: Tyson, but I hated that because it's only 22 minutes that pulled away from everything else.

Salina: I guess we should get into a rating.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: So my rating scale angels in bikinis.

Nikki: That's what they said when he was putting the strips of cloth over the paintings.

Salina: Oh, that's funny.

Nikki: I give it three out of five.

Nikki: I really liked Bernice.

Nikki: I think she's hilarious.

Nikki: I think maybe as you're talking about what LBT.

Nikki: Would do today with this episode, I wonder if she's still sort of feeling out the Bernice character and figuring out how to do something with her because I think she becomes a more permanent fixture on the show as it goes on.

Nikki: And so for now, she's still sort of a character actor, sort of a side plot.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: She goes on to be in like, 60 episodes.

Nikki: Oh, wow.

Salina: We're going to see a lot of Bernice.

Nikki: Well, there you go.

Nikki: So I wonder if she's still kind of figuring out what to do with her.

Nikki: But I think this was such a to this point, we haven't really spent a lot of time with Bernice.

Nikki: So I loved having a Bernice focused episode.

Nikki: I think the concept of her and Suzanne as a tag team, the concept of that is hilarious to me.

Nikki: And one of the things they reveal in the episode is that she's been calling Suzanne every night.

Nikki: She's not calling Julia.

Nikki: She's calling Suzanne.

Nikki: And to see those two characters interacting again, not to focus too much on the cut stuff, but I would have loved to have seen them interacting a little bit more.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: So I also gave it three out of five stick figure paintings of Anthony.

Salina: It's funny because the more we talk about this, I have a note here that says, I think we decided that three is fine.

Salina: And I have here I think that's what it was.

Salina: But talking about it, I'm enjoying it more.

Nikki: It's kind of funnier now that you're talking about it.

Salina: But yeah, I think antics of Mr.

Salina: Tyson, Bernice is always tops.

Salina: I think those things were really good.

Salina: And I've already talked about things that I felt like were a little lackluster, which was just like, we just wanted more.

Salina: And that's a good problem to have.

Salina: I think if you're going to have a problem with an episode, I'd rather it be that I have a surprise for you.

Nikki: Oh, a surprise.

Salina: Well, it's not a good one, really, but in a shocking turn of events, I have no combination references, I don't have any I have no 80s things.

Salina: Which leads me to believe I missed something.

Nikki: Well, the only one I had was Bill Cosby.

Salina: I see.

Nikki: I missed dance.

Salina: Yeah, I missed something.

Nikki: The whole thing with that bit was that Bernice when Bernice is making all these nightly phone calls to Suzanne, she's calling one night to complain that that dance he does at the beginning of the bill Cosby show is just silly, isn't it?

Nikki: And it is.

Nikki: She's not wrong.

Salina: I used to like that, but now I feel like I can't I can't like that dance anymore.

Salina: Okay, well, at least we had one eightync.

Salina: I was very disappointed.

Salina: I was like, Where are the 80s things?

Salina: But not disappointed enough to go back and look, which I've done before.

Salina: Over that.

Salina: Southern things.

Nikki: The tune of Dixie, which is what she played on her cheeks.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Can't play that on your cheeks anymore.

Nikki: Shouldn't be doing so.

Salina: Is that the only one?

Nikki: That's the only one.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: And we've already covered mine with Southern eccentrics, which we've talked about it.

Salina: I mean, not so long, but we talked about it.

Salina: And then finding nicer ways, like off the beam to call someone crazy.

Salina: That just in itself feels like a very Southern thing to do.

Salina: Kind of like the whole idea of bless your heart.

Salina: I still disagree.

Salina: Not everyone means you're an idiot when they say bless your heart.

Salina: I don't.

Salina: I usually genuinely mean it.

Nikki: I usually only use it when I mean it.

Salina: I just for all the Southerners out there, we are all trying to be dicks when we say that.

Salina: References to look up.

Nikki: I had to look up the Packard, which was the car he was driving.

Nikki: So Mr.

Nikki: Tyson asked Anthony to drive him to town in his Packard.

Nikki: I found that the first Packard automobiles were produced in 1899 and the last Detroit built Packard was in 1956.

Nikki: So this is an understandably and almost expectedly it's an old fashioned car.

Salina: Which is probably why people wanted to take pictures with him.

Salina: Probably so that's what I'm saying.

Salina: If it was him just being like, hey, you want to take a picture with me in my car?

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: Oh, I see what you're saying.

Salina: You know how people are.

Salina: People love there's whole shows and all kinds of things dedicated to them.

Salina: I thought it was a cool looking car.

Salina: To me, it looked like a 1930s gangster kind of car.

Salina: Which, with the suicide doors and stuff, that's what it reminded me of.

Salina: And I think those are fascinating to look at.

Nikki: What I found said that owning a Packard was prestigious and it was a favorite among European royalty and corporate America.

Nikki: Two totally different things.

Salina: But so I think it was like.

Nikki: It almost existed as, like a sign of who this man used to be.

Nikki: I feel like.

Nikki: So I had that one and then I had off the Beam listed, but we talked about it.

Salina: Sorry about that.

Nikki: That's all right.

Salina: Okay, so my only other one was, like, Elliot Reed, who plays Mr.

Salina: Tyson.

Salina: I just looked him up and he was in Gentlemen Prefer Blondes which is a pretty iconic movie with Marilyn Monroe.

Salina: And he passed in 2013.

Salina: Well, he looked about 100 in this show, but yes, it is sad.

Salina: Cut lines.

Nikki: I found three.

Nikki: Same one mr.

Nikki: Tyson was singing the song Sugar, sugar.

Nikki: No.

Salina: Honey, honey, sugar, sugar.

Nikki: Okay.

Nikki: So they cut that one.

Nikki: It sounded weird when I started.

Salina: I don't maybe that's what he was singing, which I don't have the cut line here.

Salina: I have more of what this line meant for me.

Nikki: Oh, okay.

Nikki: Well, that makes sense.

Nikki: What did it mean to you?

Salina: Well, just like I was wondering why they cut.

Salina: Like, was it just extra or was it too creepy at that?

Nikki: Oh, I think it was just extra.

Salina: But I remember just, like, reading it.

Salina: It read really weird.

Salina: And I was like although the second.

Nikki: Cut line I found was creepy and maybe this is why they cut it.

Nikki: But it was after julia says that Mr.

Nikki: Tyson's glass wardrobe situation is OD charlene, I think it is.

Nikki: Says, I know what you mean.

Nikki: And then she tells the story about how she had a neighbor who didn't like doorknobs.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: So she would go by and shut them at night for she would go in and shut them at night and then let him out in the morning.

Nikki: So she would shut him in at night, lock all the doors, and let him in in the morning.

Nikki: But really it was just because he wanted the building to think they were sleeping together.

Nikki: That is really creepy.

Nikki: Yeah, that is actually creepy.

Nikki: So that might have been why they cut that one.

Nikki: And then the last one is just again, getting back to that point of Suzanne coaching Bernice, and there was just a whole cut line about how she says, the main thing is you have to emote as you're walking.

Nikki: You turn, you swirl, you go from side to side.

Nikki: Big smile all the time, but not too big because you're also concerned about the sadness in the world.

Nikki: Then as you're leaving, you give them one of these that just says, I'm me, and I'm enjoying myself, literally, word for word, what Bernice says in the pageant.

Salina: Right.

Nikki: And I just thought that was such a shame.

Nikki: They shouldn't have cut that twas.

Salina: But it was a delight to find.

Nikki: It was.

Nikki: It was.

Nikki: So is that all the cut lines you had?

Salina: That's it.

Nikki: So we are on to episode five.

Nikki: We meet another Suzanne ex husband, dash Goff, the writer.

Nikki: In the meantime, we'd love everyone to follow along with us and engage Instagram and Facebook at Sweettv.

Nikki: Email us at

Nikki: We're online at WW

Nikki: And this is like your every six episodes reminder that if you want to leave us in a rating and review whenever you listen, that would be great.

Nikki: That will help other people find us and to know that they should be listening in for all the gems that we're covering here.

Salina: So many gems.

Nikki: Put that in your review and hang tight.

Nikki: For extra sugar, we're actually going to look at look deep into Alice Ghostly, who is the actor that played bernice Clifton.

Salina: Yay.

Nikki: So that's it.

Salina: Well, you know what this means.

Nikki: What does it mean?

Salina: Selena, we'll see you around the bend.

Salina: Bye.

Nikki: Welcome to this week's extra sugar.

Nikki: In honor of our first Bernice focused episode, felt like the right time to do a deep dive into Alice Ghostly, the actor behind our favorite senior center pageant queen.

Nikki: No.

Salina: I like it.

Nikki: So, Alice Margaret Ghostly was born in Eve, Missouri, on August 14, 1923.

Nikki: I'm going to give you three options, Selena.

Nikki: Can you tell me the location of her birth?

Nikki: Was it in a train depot?

Nikki: Was it in a post office or was it at her home?

Salina: Well, home feels like it should be the answer because you said 1923.

Nikki: Yes.

Salina: I'm guessing most people were born at home, but that doesn't sound quite as interesting.

Salina: You said train depot or post office, so I'm going to say post office.

Salina: It's a train depot.

Nikki: No, good guess.

Nikki: Train depot.

Salina: You did an excellent job.

Nikki: She was born in a train station.

Nikki: How 1920s does that sound?

Nikki: Yeah, and random.

Nikki: Yeah, just like Bernice and a real Southerner.

Nikki: I found an article that says her father was a railroad telegrapher and it was common for them to live in the train station.

Nikki: I think a telegrapher sends signals to other train stations or to train conductors to know scheduling and route stuff.

Nikki: Okay, I guess technically then, two answers were right.

Nikki: You didn't get either one of them.

Nikki: But that would mean that if they lived in the train depot, then she was also born at home.

Nikki: Oh, you see what I'm saying?

Salina: I see what you're saying.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: Just for funsies, that same article I found that said that's where she was born said that they saw a picture of the interior of her apartment in Studio City, California, and there was a big blow up of the big blow up picture of the train station in which she was born hanging over the mantle.

Nikki: So it meant something very special to her.

Salina: Well, it probably reminded her of her that come out in human language.

Salina: It probably reminds her of her dad.

Nikki: Probably.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: So after her birth, the family moved to Oklahoma.

Nikki: She started performing at like, age five.

Nikki: Do you know what I was doing at age five?

Nikki: Learning how to tie my shoes and watching Golden Girls.

Nikki: She was singing, dancing and performing poetry.

Salina: Oh, wow.

Nikki: Flash forward a few years and she briefly attended the University of Oklahoma studying drama.

Nikki: But she dropped out to pursue show business, according to an article I found on, which was a tribute to her.

Nikki: After she passed, she moved to New York with her sister Gladys and performed as one half of the Ghostly Sisters.

Nikki: While there, Alice developed her own solo cabaret show while simultaneously working day jobs as a music teacher's, assistant, an usherette and a waitress.

Nikki: Of this time, Alice said, the best job I had then was as a theater usher.

Nikki: I saw all the plays for free.

Nikki: What I saw before me was what I wanted to do and what I wanted to be that's positive.

Nikki: So she got her first big break in a Broadway stage review called New Faces of 1952.

Nikki: Also featured in that feature was Eartha Kitt and Mel Brooks.

Salina: Oh, wow.

Nikki: Throughout the she continued to perform on stage.

Nikki: And in 1978, she played Miss Hannigan in Annie Selena.

Nikki: Can you guess who played Annie?

Salina: Tell me the year again.

Nikki: 1978.

Salina: And this is on stage.

Salina: Oh, I oh, it was Sarah Jessica Parker.

Nikki: It was Sarah Jessica Parker.

Nikki: I knew you would know that.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: I'm like, what a weird thing for me to know.

Salina: Maybe I don't know.

Nikki: So strange.

Nikki: During this time, she also started to make her mark on television.

Nikki: As far as I can tell, she had more than 100 television credits to her name, starting with a 1957 appearance in the musical Cinderella.

Nikki: As one of the stepsisters, Julie Andrews played the title role.

Salina: Wow.

Salina: She was all in it.

Nikki: In addition to Designing Women, her resume, honestly, it's impressive.

Nikki: It sort of reads like the TV land airing schedule.

Nikki: She was in practically every classic TV show of the she was in Chips, she was in Golden Girls, she was in Good Times.

Salina: Do you remember her in Golden Girls?

Nikki: I do not.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: She was in Hogan's Heroes, mayberry RFD.

Nikki: Maud.

Nikki: One day at a time.

Nikki: And the OD couple?

Nikki: Her more recent work included appearances on Friends, Sabrina the Teenage Witch and voiceover work in Awe, Real Monsters and Rugrats.

Nikki: I do remember her in Sabrina.

Nikki: I think she played like a godmother or like an aunt or something.

Nikki: She received an Emmy nomination for Best Supporting Actress in a comedy series in 1992 for her work on Designing Women.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: All told, she appeared in about 30 movies, including To Kill a Mockingbird, My Six Loves, The Graduate, The Flim I can't say that with a straight face.

Nikki: The flim flam man and Greece.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: See, Greece is what sticks out the most for me.

Nikki: According to Wikipedia, Alice received a Tony nomination in 1963 for different roles she played in the Broadway comedy The Beauty Part.

Nikki: She also received a Tony Award for Best Featured actress for her role in The Sign in Sydney Brustin's Window.

Salina: Oh, well, there you go.

Nikki: So she never won any awards for her work in Broadway, but one article says she accepted one for her friend, veteran actor Maggie Smith.

Salina: Oh, I love Maggie Smith.

Nikki: I think everybody does.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: On the personal front, Alice was married for 50 years to Italian American actor Felice Orlandi, who died in 2003.

Nikki: They had no children.

Nikki: She had a series of multiple strokes that put an end to her career around the year 2007.

Nikki: Years later, she died of colon cancer.

Nikki: I had to cover it.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Well, I mean, she did pass.

Salina: That's very sad.

Nikki: I found one report that part of her ashes were spread under an orange tree at her home in North Hollywood that her husband planted for her.

Salina: That's beautiful.

Nikki: Her sister Gladys passed away in 2009, at which time the other half of Alice's ashes were taken to Siloam Springs, Arkansas to be buried at her sister's side next to their parents.

Nikki: The sisters share a tombstone that reads the Ghostly sisters.

Salina: And also, I guess, like maybe Alice Ghostly felt a real kinship with, uh, because man her husband Harry Thomas.

Salina: Harry Thomason.

Salina: Thank you.

Salina: Sorry.

Salina: Harry, you know, he's from Arkansas.

Salina: And I think LBT largely considers that her home at this point.

Salina: So just a certain kind of made them feel like they really knew each other.

Salina: And I was just going to say too, that it feels like seeing that she has so much stage credits in her history, I think you really see that in the show because she is very theatrical in ways that I don't know that regular sitcom stars are.

Salina: And you really see that work and it's what makes her really interesting on the show.

Nikki: Yeah, I will say I found a family run Facebook page that calls into question some of the things I just said about what happened to her ashes after she died.

Nikki: It says her ashes were all spread at the orange tree and that basically there was a rift between the family, the Ghostly family and Alice, and that it was created because she had no children to manage her estate.

Nikki: And it was instead done by a business partner or a lawyer or whatever.

Nikki: And it was all very impersonal.

Nikki: I just feel like that's worth mentioning because this Facebook page also has some really cool old pictures from her niece of her growing up and traveling with Alice and spending time with her.

Nikki: There are some cool anecdotes.

Nikki: And so the official record is what I shared, but the family record is a little bit different.

Nikki: And I just feel like it's worth mentioning that oh, I'm sorry.

Salina: I guess I'm not asking you to answer this.

Salina: I'm just going to pontificate out loud for a minute.

Salina: Because to me, I think one of the things that's interesting about that is so they were upset that they didn't get to handle her estate.

Nikki: I think they were more upset that choices about what to do with her ashes, choices about where she should be buried.

Salina: Shouldn't she be able to make those choices anyway?

Salina: I think so.

Nikki: I didn't really dig super deep into the history, but I think it just sounds like they were a close knit family.

Nikki: And actually they were really close knit with her husband, too.

Nikki: So this isn't like her husband squirreled her away or anything.

Nikki: They were all very close knit.

Nikki: And it sounds like maybe the will wasn't executed the way she wanted it.

Nikki: I don't know what her will said.

Nikki: So it's possible that she didn't put that in her will.

Nikki: So the lawyers just made the best next decision.

Nikki: Whatever the case, it just seems like they were a close knit family, and the family feels like at the end of her life, they weren't as much a part of it as they would have wanted to have been.

Salina: That's sad because I feel like, unfortunately, that seems to be the case.

Salina: I have rarely seen the instance where someone passing away brings family closer together.

Salina: It seems to do the opposite.

Salina: So I hope that her ashes wound up wherever she wanted them to be.

Nikki: I hope so, too.

Nikki: The orange tree was very special to her.

Nikki: Apparently their home that they built, her and her husband was a very special place for them.

Nikki: He put this orange tree in for her.

Nikki: She loved it.

Nikki: So it is, on the face of it, a very romantic story that that's where her and her husband's ashes would end up.

Nikki: But I wanted to mention that other little piece because it felt relevant, but to end on a positive note, one fun thing about her legacy.

Nikki: On May 15, 1992, the town of Henrietta, Oklahoma, proclaimed Alice Ghostly Day and named the high school auditorium in her honor.

Salina: Oh, that is nice.

Nikki: I tried to dig around to see if it's still well, she moved to Henrietta, Oklahoma after, like, in her early years.

Nikki: I tried to look into whether the auditorium is still named that or if they've renamed it since, and I couldn't find it.

Nikki: But incidentally, Henrietta High School is also the high school football home of NFL legend Troy Aikman, and several things have been named after him.

Salina: There you go.

Nikki: Isn't that random?

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: Henrietta, Oklahoma.

Salina: Henrietta, Oklahoma.

Salina: I don't know, Shawma.

Salina: It's my favorite place.

Nikki: So I will just end by saying that Alice Ghostly left an undeniable impact on television.

Nikki: I imagine, in all seriousness, if you sit down and watch TV Land, I bet she pops up all the time.

Nikki: And I'm sure if I found the episode of Golden Girls that she's in, I would remember her being in it.

Nikki: It's been so much fun.

Nikki: Like, she was the highlight of this last episode of Designing Women.

Nikki: For me, every time she's on the screen, she's a highlight for me.

Nikki: It seems unimaginable that the role of Bernice would have been played by anyone else.

Nikki: She sounds like she had a fascinating life.

Nikki: She lived and breathed show business, and it was really fun looking into her.

Salina: Well, I like it.

Salina: I like her, and I look forward to seeing her more in the future.

Nikki: So that has been this week's extra sugar.


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