Special Episode: Sweet Tea & TV Takes on Delta Burke’s Women of the House – The Gentle Woman From Georgia Is Not Finished
- sweetteatvpod
- Apr 14
- 62 min read
Updated: Apr 21
We simply could not wrap up Designing Women without acknowledging its extended universe and CBS network spinoff, Women of the House. This is the short-lived series that reunited LBT and Delta Burke, and the show that brought back Suzanne Sugarbaker. Turns out: this one had some off-screen drama, too, but the best of it was in service to women. We like that.
We’ll talk about our general reactions, likes, dislikes, and a bevy of Designing Women cameos PLUS some stunt casting with purpose.
Some reads and watches for you:
Come on y’all, let’s get into it!
Or listen on Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music.
Transcript
This is the final episode of the seventh season of Designing Women and
Hey, Nikki.
Hey, Salina.
Hey, y'all. And welcome to Sweet Tea and tv and our first of two special episodes to wrap up our final season of Designing Women and. And the seventh season of our show, seven seasons.
That's crazy. I was thinking about that recently and just how much Designing Women and Designing Women adjacent content that is.
Really? Because I was thinking about how you kind of look like the neighbor from, Home Improvement right now, because all I can see is your eyes and the top of your nose.
I was hoping you were going to say I looked like a DJ over here with my little sound board and the poking of the buttons.
You probably do. But all I can see is your nose and your forehead in your eyes.
So the best part of me, Salina, you're getting the best view.
LBT and Delta Burke discuss the short lived Designing Women spin off
so we can't leave this journey without carving out some time to watch and discuss the short lived Designing Women spin off Women of the House. So that's what today is.
Well, we could, but we're just not going to.
We're not going to. And we've actually also gotten, a few to several asks for it. And there are some fans of this show out there in the world. I would have thought this was the show. I would remember, honestly, because by this time, we're like 10. And so I thought, like, yeah, definitely, I'll know what this is. And I just have no recollection of ever seeing not one minute of this. But it was on a really short time, so I could have. You really could have blinked and missed this one, to be honest. For the uninitiated, this is the first collaboration between LBT and Delta Burke after Delta exited Destination Designing women back in 1991. And it would be the first time in four years that Delta would grace the screen once again as the one and the only Suzanne Sugarbaker.
Women of the House is an American sitcom television series that aired from 1995-1995
Nikki, would you like to give us a synopsis for what exactly Women of the House is to frame up for listeners where we find ourselves in the world of the show?
No.
Okay.
because I'm going to give you three synopses.
Oh, okay, great.
In the interest of working smarter, not harder, we just pulled from a few different places because they all touched on different pieces of the show and the history and the background. So to paint the fullest picture, but it's brief, Wikipedia says Women of the House is an American sitcom television series and a spin off of Designing Women that aired on CBS, from January 4th to August 18th, 1995. So that blink and you miss it thing. And the last four episodes airing on Lifetime on September 8, 1995, the series starred Delta Burke reprising her role of Suzanne Sugarbaker, who had reconciled with producers of Designing Women after a bitter, highly publicized off screen battle. IMDb puts it way more brief than that. And they just say Suzanne Sugarbaker of Designing Women 1986 rocks the US Capitol when she takes over her recently deceased husband's seat in Congress. The more in depth summary I think, unsurprisingly, comes from Designing Women online. It says the setup is simple. Following the death of husband number five, a United States congressman, Suzanne takes over his seat in the House of Representatives as a favor to the Governor of Georgia until an election can be held. Working under her are three very different women. Her administrative assistant, Natalie Hollingsworth is an uptight working woman designed to make it to the top. That's such funny writing. An uptight working woman determined to make it to the top despite her continuing relationship with an imprisoned married congressman. Cissy Emerson, her press secretary, is a former staff writer for the Washington Post whose life has gone downhill since she began drinking. Lastly, wide eyed receptionist Jennifer Malone is a frail housewife and mother whose philandering husband has just run off with another. Much of the show's comedic conflict centers on the constant power struggle between conservative natty and Democratic sissy. So that's Patricia Heaton and Terry Garr. Allowing for a debate atmosphere in which Linda Bloodworth Thomason can express her political views, it is decided that the character of Suzanne will remain an independent, but she enjoys a, much maligned friendship with President Clinton and is never concerned with being politically correct. Leaving the zoftig. And I only know how to pronounce that word because they said it in episode one and it means you're a big old soft girl, ex beauty queen, constantly persecuted by the press and the Washington regime.
Salina says Jennifer Malone started out being played by Valerie Mahaffey
So I wanted to, and I hope I'm not preempting anything for you, Salina. We didn't really have anything, anywhere else to put this in, our episode, so I wanted to mention some of the cast shuffling that happened even in this very brief series. so the character of Jennifer Malone started out being played by Valerie Mahaffey. that's because the character was originally written for Julie Haggerty, who was in what About Bob? Which brought me immense joy. but she was unavailable to participate at the beginning. So they did finally bring Julie in in episode five, but she was gone after episode six. Valerie would return for one more episode, but then she was gone by episode eight, to be replaced by Gen Xer Veda Walkman, who was played by Lisa Rifle, who incidentally was very briefly on King of Queens.
When I saw that fact, I had a feeling. I was like, I'm not gonna say it because she's gonna say it.
I can't help it. I knew her face and I could not place it. And she played Carrie's sister.
Good pick for that.
For like. But she was only in like a handful of episodes.
Visually. Yeah, they look alike.
Oh, that's true.
Something that casting thing.
They know what they're doing sometimes. I think it's also worth noting that Suzanne's brother Jim, who we can talk about a little bit more, I think in a few minutes, was only present for the first ep, which is so strange.
When Designing Women first aired back in 1986, none of those stars were household names
I think you said, Salina, you had a couple things on Terry Gar and Patricia Heaton that you wanted to share.
Yeah, just, you know, I think there wasn't. When Designing Women, aired and premiered back in 1986, I, I don't think that any of those were household names. I mean, probably the, the closest you would get would be Dixie Carter and still not a household name. Just someone who had more time under her belt on TV shows, and long, longer running TV shows. But in this case, when you have Terry ah, Garr in particular, you have someone who was a, a movie star in her own right in the late 70s and 80s. So if you've seen Tootsie or Close Encounters of the third kind or Mr. Mom or young Frankenstein, she's in those and that just feels worth noting.
And still your mom. One of my favorite movies.
I know.
Such a classic.
Yes, good movie. And then Patricia Heaton would go on to star on one of the biggest sitcoms in TV history, Everybody Loves Raymond, and then goes on to anchor a second hugely successful sitcom, the Middle, which I know you and I both watched.
I enjoy both of those shows.
Same. And it got me thinking then you and I have logged an incredible amount of time with watching tv. Patricia Heaton. Oh, right, yes, that too. but that's a, part of the American, experience, I think.
And that's probably right.
Probably part of the world experience at this point. So I just figured it was worth mentioning that these are not unfamiliar faces. This, these. And particularly in the case of Terry Garr, I. That was like a get.
Because of low ratings, the show was put on hiatus after episode eight
So I think a couple other notable notables about the show because there was a lot sort of going on in the background. Like you mentioned that this was the first time Del Delta and LBT had come back together after their highly publicized, battles in the press. A couple other interesting things about the background of the show. So Suzanne was supposed to have a rival congresswoman Sizemore, who was played by Susan Powder, but the role was reduced to a guest appearance. Apparently. That's because Linda opted to go with the ensemble format, mirroring Designing Women.
Yes, And I think this will probably come up in things that I thought about the show.
Oh, that's not so ominous. Maybe her eyes went really narrow. because of low ratings, the show was put on hiatus after episode eight. and that's after which the character of Jennifer Malone didn't return. They made that, some of those switches. Then after episode eight were introduced to Veda, and the show was pulled from CBS because network censors wanted to cut the epilogue scene from Women in Film. LBC and Harry were, like, pretty cheesed off about it. They stood by the 1 minute monster montage of rape, torture, murder, etc. They thought it was necessary to drive home the message about abuse of women in the film industry.
Lifetime ended up airing the entire episode, along with three unaired episodes
So I mentioned this earlier Lifetime, which we've established must love it some lbt, or at the time loved lbt, because that's where they also aired the Designing Women reunion. But they ended up airing the entire episode, along with the three other unaired episodes that round out the full series. Anything to add there?
I have a lot of things I want to talk about about that episode, but I think we can do that later in the.
I was also going to mention, if you want to watch it, if you want to follow along or just revisit it, I found it on YouTube for free. I feel like at some point you had told me it was on Amazon prime, but I already found it on YouTube. I finally did go to Amazon prime to watch it because it's way easier to navigate. So if that's where y'all are looking for things, if you want to find it, that's where you can find it. okay.
So we have no reference of Suzanne having moved to Japan with her mother
So then the next little bit we wanted to talk about was biggest changes since Designing Women. I have two big categories here. And then you. I mean, I wouldn't say big. Maybe that was an oversell. I'm so sorry. I have two main categories here, and then you fill in the blanks. Whatever I've, understandably left out, I really struggle, backstory edits from Designing Women. So we have no reference of Suzanne having moved to Japan with her mother, which is, folks will remember, is where we left her in Designing Women. It seems like Suzanne Was married two more times.
and that's a blink and you would have missed it.
Yes.
I think I only caught that by going. And, looking at Designing Women online.
she now has a daughter named Desiree. So this is a little bit of a continuation slash smidge from Designing Women because in Designing Women season one, she was interested in adopting a little girl named Lee Singh. I mentioned her brother Jim. So we were introduced to the sugar baker's half brother Clayton in season two.
Right.
We'd never heard about a brother named Jim.
There's no Jim.
There's no Jim. So that's a little bit.
The show didn't really have a gym either.
No.
So we talked about him. That's about it. Main difference, one attack on before you move on. you did recognize Jim, did you?
tell me.
Yeah. So he's in the second season of Designing Women, the one where the gas station owner wins the contest to drum up business for Sugar Bakers.
Yeah.
So that's him. He's also a Breaking Bad fame. Jonathan Banks is his name.
Good for him.
Good for him.
I'm glad he went on with Breaking Bad because he didn't get a whole lot to work with here. I wanted to mention Sapphire. She was Suzanne's maid. So again, they position her as having been with Suzanne since she was a teenager or something. That completely disregards the character of Consuelo, which was a huge storyline through Designing Women. and then one thing that hasn't changed, Salina, is Suzanne and Anthony's friendship.
Yeah, that's. That's.
He comes back at the end of the series, slash season, and they embark on their good old fashioned craziness.
Lucy and Ethel. style shenanigans. I'll tack one more thing to tack on in this particular area. It feels worth mentioning that we hear at least about Julia twice.
Oh.
Like her mere existence. But never Mary Jo or Charlene or referenced. Not that I recall. Anyway, thought that was kind of interesting.
We had some guest stars from the old cast on Designing Women
okay.
and then we had some guest stars from the old cast. And then I think you're keeping a running list of guest stars through the season.
Ones of interest. I. I have a feeling I've missed some, to be honest. because there are people that might have looked familiar to me, but you had to look really familiar to like, you mentioned her rival. She's like a thing in and of herself. We'll talk about that. But like some people, they might have swept right past me. I don't know.
Well, women in film had A lot of people.
Oh yes, that one. I went back and I went to IMDb and did a whole thing.
Okay. the two that I'll mention already mentioned me. Shock Taylor. He made a reappearance as Anthony Bouvier in episode 11, Dear Diary. and then Gerald McGraney made a reappearance as Suzanne's ex husband, Dash Goff in episode seven, the Afternoon Wife. We will revisit that at some point in the future of this episode. Because I have thoughts on that one.
No. Yeah, so I have Mc. Gainey, who played T. Tommy Reed in Designing Women. He's in the first episode moving boxes around for Suzanne. And then also another person who showed up several times in Designing Women is Adam Carle, who always plays a guy named Adam, even though I think two of the times he's playing different characters. And one, he's working in a bookstore in season five and Julia tells him he's stupid. And then he comes to be an intern and doesn't seem to be the same person necessarily. This is when Charlene briefly quits the design firm. And then, and then he comes back again in season six when they get stuck on the elevator going to see Julia and they're all trapped in there together. So in. That's in Designing Women. In this show, he's in episodes 8, 11 and 12 is like some kind of congressional staffer. Nikki's currently looking him up. His name is Adam. Carl.
Well, I was trying to remember, wasn't he also in King of Queens?
Yeah, probably. I mean, this is a guy who's been around the guest star block.
Yes, he was in King of Queens.
Yeah, he's just been in a ton of stuff.
Yes, he has, right? Is it Hearts of Fire?
I think he was sort of in Designing Women. He was like the Veda. He was the. Gosh, isn't Gen X dumb character. That's what it felt like to me. But just instead of being a recurring role, he would just show up very sporadically then and then, those were. Yeah, those were all the Designing Women catches that I had. Did you have anybody else that popped for you? Okay, well, if anybody else knows of any that we missed, let us know.
Other guest stars worth mentioning include Jamie Farr and Susan Powder
Other guest stars worth mentioning. So we have Jamie Farr come on this scene in the second episode. This is Klinger from mash, I imagine. he is an LBT relationship from her time as a writer on the show. That was a. That was a big guest star early on. You definitely see her relationships. And Harry Thomason's relationships because there were a lot of big people in this series. Susan Powder, who you are already, mentioned is Representative Kirby Sizemore, in real life was the short hair, blonde 90s fitness icon with the crazy successful infomercial and the Stop the Insanity book program and catchphrase. Do you remember her?
Not at all. But when I was watching the show, I felt like she had to be somebody major, because she didn't read like a true actor. She read very much like a guest star. So I looked her up and saw that she was a fitness guru.
Yes. And, and I think I remember seeing her infomercial maybe on like USA Network or something. Seemed like a good fit.
The Personal Choice Party is a libertarian party with a very specific platform
Then we get a slew of famous women who made cameos in the episode where there's the congressional hearing. This is the controversial episode you've already mentioned. The hearing is about the dangers of depicting violence against women in movies and television. And I would say these. I don't. I would say these cameos really run the gamut from the famous in their day to some true icons. So I wrote all of them down. We have Elizabeth Ashley from Evening Shade. So I did watch Evening Shade a little bit when I was younger, but I don't remember anything about it. So she did not pop for me when, that scene happened. But we also have Marilyn Chambers. She died in 2009. She was an adult film star, exotic dancer, model, actress, singer, and vice presidential candidate for the Personal Choice Party. Nikki, did you want to hear anything about the Personal Choice Party?
I think I kind of do.
Okay, so if you're interested in the Personal Choice Party, their platform includes ensuring that the federal government doesn't regulate boxing.
Huh?
Uh-huh. It seems like a really interesting out the gate proposal. Uh-huh.
Calling somebody's pet project, I think calling.
For legalized gambling everywhere, eradicating federal taxes, and as their name indicates, preventing the government from interfering with a person's right to choose. It doesn't really say what, I guess.
Just anything they want to not be bound by law.
Yeah, I guess it's like just like a. It's like a libertarian, but like with a very specific platform.
We call it, Libertarian plus.
The gold package.
libertarian with a funny hat, if you will, but only if they like the hat. It could also be funny underwear.
It's their choice.
Funny socks they choose. It's one funny thing they want to wear is up to them.
It is your choice. And when you become a member, you get to get socked in the face because we believe in Boxing in the personal.
Is it people still a party?
I have no idea. I didn't get that far.
People's Choice.
Yeah, and it also sounds like the People's Choice Awards.
as you said that I was like, wait a minute. Are we this choice? I like this. You're selling me. I can box anywhere I want.
You can have. You can have anything you want. Maybe. I guess as long as you don't try and take away boxing or like, taxes. No one likes them, but I hear they can come in handy occasionally. Shh. Don't tell anyone.
So the next person in this slew of cameos as Deidre hall
So the next person in this slew of, cameos as Deidre hall from Days of Our Lives. She started over 5, 000 episodes. I said 5, 000 episodes.
If they do 360, how many episodes a year do they do they air like every day of the year?
I mean, pretty much not weekends. So, yeah.
Okay.
Five day work week looks like.
Yeah, I was thinking that.
Go ahead. Fast Math.
No, can't do.
Can't help you.
I had to ask chat GPT to do some math for me today.
times two is 104. 365 minus 104.
Yeah.
So 265. 4, 3, 2, 1 2, 62, 61. 261. okay, that's it. 261 episodes a year.
So. And she did 10,000. No, she did a thousand.
5,005.
Good Lord.
This is what I'm saying. It's like. This is not a typo.
19 years.
It's a long time, Marilyn.
Not enough to retire.
Nope. It's really something, isn't it? It sure is about retirement, because I don't.
Stephanie Powers starred in the TV shows Heart to Heart and Grace Under Fire
Anyways. Marilyn McCoo, best known as the lead singer of 5th Dimension. She was also involved. Stephanie Powers starred in the TV shows Heart to Heart. That was like a really long running series in the 80s. I. I don't think that was very much like one that was on, where you could see repeats. So I'm not overly familiar with it, but like, I've heard of it before. She also starred on the Girl from uncle Then you have Joan Van Arc also shows up from Knott's Landing. Lonnie Anderson from WKRP in Cincinnati. She's like a blonde bombshell 70s and 80s TV sex symbol. By the time, I think we were like, more consciously aware of pop culture, she was just Lonnie Anderson to me.
Right?
This person that like, just shows up places and then people are parents, age. We're like, oh, it's Lonnie Right.
Her hair looks great.
Exactly. So then, Brett Butler. This is where we're getting into our territory here a little bit. But stand up comedian. And she was the star of Grace Under Fire, which I think is a terribly underrated show.
It's really quite wonderful, if I remember correctly. And it would have been my teens the last time I watched it. For real. For real. But I do remember it being a very good show in the vein of like Roseanne and serious.
Like it's comedy, but it had a lot of serious elements in there that.
It wouldn't have been too long before this episode that that show would have started airing.
that's like 93ish probably, right?
It's fine. Don't Google it. But I. When she popped up, I was like, oh, that's like super contemporary to this show.
And it lasted longer than I remember because I think it was like seven or eight seasons.
It was a long time.
Shirley Jones also shows up. Recognized her star of classic Hollywood musicals, the 70s TV show, the Partridge Family. I think people our age are more likely to remember from Grandma's Boy.
Oh, maybe I remember her from the Partridge Family because when you were watching these things, I was watching the Partridge Family on after school reruns. That and the Brady Bunch.
Yeah, well, I've watched all. I didn't like the Brady Bunch, but.
Oh, God, I love the Brady Bunch.
And then on, on the whole, I think the importance of having like a Shirley Jones there is that she is this wholesome character from film and tv. And if you haven't seen Grandma's Boy, that's what makes her character so very funny in that movie. Movie. Because she. You wind up finding out she's like a little bit of a potty mouth. So anyways, good times. Rita Moreno, another musical powerhouse and also an egot. I mean, it's Rita Moreno. If I need to explain her to you, I don't know what to do with you. Roseanne Barr. No explanation needed, I hope. And then Carol Burnett. No explanation needed. I pray so.
in that episode, these poor people, there's some listeners who are like, who's Carol Burnett?
I can't with you.
And then I can with you. And I would just say, educate yourself. It's worth it. Roseanne. Worth watching.
Nikki sounds nicer, but she also just called you ignorant. That's okay. It is okay to be ignorant. I'm ignorant all the time.
Just admit it.
One of my favorite pastimes.
Better to admit your ignorance and try to pretend it doesn't Exist.
I agree.
Regis Philbin and Kathy Lee make a cameo in Meshach episode
So Regis Philbin and Kathy Lee also make a, cameo in that episode? No, in the Journal. In the Meshach episode.
Yes.
When they find her.
When they find her journal. Yep.
So that was another cameo that really stood out to me. And I wanted to make sure we flagged that because, you know, that also.
Feels like something of a different generation.
And they're. Well, look at where they are now in that show and how many iterations they've had since then. So it's, it definitely reminds me of being like a little kid because that was a mainstay for such a very long time.
Do. Are you so glad that I took you through all that?
Thrilled. It was an honor and a privilege.
Took a long time to pull that together.
Seems like it. thanks for your service.
The significant backstory shifts on "Designing Women" left us scratching our heads
So with all that background, now that you know everyone who starred in the show, would you like to share our general reactions?
I would counting them to tell you how many I have.
I think I'm three. Okay. Helps. No, two, but they're all long, so you're welcome.
Oh. Oh, okay. Well, I think the first one I'll start with actually is kind of the, the most minor one. The significant backstory shifts. This random brother, this daughter, a different housekeeper. This was clearly marketed as a spin off for Suzanne Sugarbaker from Designing Women. So I don't know that I'll ever understand those ships because they didn't play to any. Like, we stopped talking about the brother by episode one. The daughter only comes in occasionally and just cutesy, cutesy, and then she's gone. Although we definitely talk about Suzanne sort of being a working mom a couple of times, but like, they don't really play to anything. So I can't understand if you're trying to draw that line. Like, this is your Suzanne Sugarbaker back. We heard you and we're bringing her back. Why'd you change her character so much?
I think that's a great point. I, you know, I. I never know. Are they like, focus grouping some of these things towards the beginning and they're like, oh, shift, it shifted. Everyone hates it, you know, or what? Or was it because the ratings were low in the beginning? They just knew they needed to make a shift and then there. And I think one thing that we've learned along the way is like, okay, so we come from a place where things take a lot of time m in. In our workspace. And so I think it's like almost brain breaking for us to think about them making these on the fly decisions, like she was writing episodes week to week back in Designing Women and getting the script on Mondays and they were filming on Fridays and, you know, or whatever the case was. And so all that's so tight. And so maybe some of these decisions were just happening more in the moment than we can even realize. And, you know, your mileage may vary on how well that's going to work out for you. You know, you might have a hit on your hands, you might have a disaster on your hands.
Women of the House was clearly trying to recapture the magic of Designing Women
And I'm not even necessarily saying this is a disaster, but, well, maybe this might be a good time for me to share my first general reaction. And you've corroborated this anyway with this idea of shifting to the ensemble. But that's what I was thinking when watching this is Women of the House was for me clearly trying to recapture the magic of Designing Women. So it was an all female ensemble that at least strove to be four strong. You've already mentioned all of the catastrophe with the one, actor who Malone, who gets brought in and out and in and out and then we're to a different person and yada, yada, yada. So it's like LBT was attempting to recreate those archetypal characters. She had Designing Women, the nice one, the strong one, the sassy one, blah, blah, blah, blah. But in a way, the strength was also the weakness because Suzanne's character already had five seasons worth of character development. And so her, as well as the memory of Julia, Charlene, Mary Jo, Bernice, Anthony, was the measuring stick that the new characters in this new show could never live up to. And intentionally or unintentionally, they were rolling out old Designing Women runners and plot lines.
Okay, so that was hitting for you too. So I wrote down a couple. Emerson sold lingerie in the office. Suzanne did this back in season two or three. I think there was. In both shows, there was a joke about edible underwear and them eating them because they were hungry and didn't have any other options. It's funny, but it's, I think for us who have watched the show so closely and there wasn't year. Well, at this point, there's been years in between. but because, you know, we have such a focused watch that just you're like, really? Again, there were so.
So this was in my dislikes.
Yeah.
We also had episode, four. That's what Friends are for. So it included a reference to Suzanne treating Emerson as if she were her play doll. That was a Susan Anthony thing in Proxy Pig and the great Pretenders in you talk Too Much. They talked about Suzanne dieting and how mean she gets when she diets. Bad Girl, was felt to me like a repeat of the Carleen going bad episode. And then, of course, episode eight, Afternoon Wife, we had to repeat the whole Dash Golf situation. so again, fair point that most people weren't watching this as closely as we have and as back to back as we have. But that stuck out to me in almost every episode. I was like, I think I've seen this before.
Right? Yeah, I got a couple.
But I think I laughed more last time.
I think I had the same. I think I had a couple more that felt like that too. So Veda coming in for those final episodes was reminiscent to me of, like, the nieces coming in. Oh, you know, like, here's what younger people are like right now. Suzanne's inability to remember Veda's name felt like a throwback to the series finale where no one could remember Kiki's name. You know, khaki.
Yeah.
So there was. Even though I don't. LBT was even really involved with that. But I don't know.
I don't know what happened there, but that one tracked. So, that joke landed with me really well because it tracks so much with the character of Suzanne that she would never remember someone that, like, low on the totem pole.
Oh, I loved it.
I thought it was hilarious.
Yes, there were.
But I also love not remembering Kiki's name.
Right. Things and, like. And it's. It's. It's funny and it can. There are funny parts, but, you know.
I feel like this show had potential, but it lost momentum after the first episode
So anyways, perhaps the most obvious ploy in my mind and trying to recapture that Designing Women magic is bringing back people. Love them, Dash and Anthony. So the thing is, you can't catch lightning in a bottle twice. It sort of puts me in the mind of all the reboots that network started doing over the last several years, and it still hasn't stopped. But it's not quite at the fever pitch it was a few years ago. It mostly feels like a copy of a copy of a copy, leaving me feeling more sad than nostalgic, which is.
So sad because I. And this is in my comments somewhere, maybe in likes. I feel like this show had potential. I feel like there was enough there that it could have stood in its own right. And we didn't need to repeat where we had already been because it. There were some really. So my second general reaction is that there were some really funny parts. I think for me, Suzanne slash Delta Burke's performance felt a little mixed. So like she started the season like she just put her Suzanne suit on and it felt like no time had passed. But then as the episodes went on, it got a little less glossy, murky or something.
Yeah, yeah, I think so. I'm gonna, So no surprise here. This reaction from you and my second reaction are very similar. Which is like, on paper this log line should be everything.
Yeah.
I think it lost momentum after that first episode. Yeah.
Ah.
And that big speech. So there's like these other plot points that could be really funny. Like the breaking of the Lincoln bed. If you told me that on paper as an idea. And then we like you and I flesh that out together. I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, we could do this, we could do this. But that episode felt like claustrophobic to me. You know, I don't want to jump in and steal too much, but this is like, I think we're kind of on the exact same wavelength. Yeah, it should have been better.
Yeah, I think I would say that. One other thing. I read somewhere along the lines and I tried to trace it back this morning because I realized I didn't write my source down, but I read and I wasn't able. I know. I read that they intentionally tried to downplay Suzanne's Suzanness along the way because they wanted the ensemble to play well.
Okay.
And as long as this, that time tested Designing Women problem. As long as Suzanne's outshining everyone else, everyone else isn't playing really well. they also kind of forced her sometimes into the straight man position because you had the two extremes of Emerson and Hollingsworth and so she was in the middle and she would have to be the even keeled when we're used to seeing her over here or over here being the wacky person that we all love.
Totally.
So it tracks. I mean, it sort of tracks. You can see the thought process. It just was the sacrifice of the show that I'm not sure is a choice I would have chosen to make.
Yeah, I think that's a great point. And I just sitting here and kind of floating through the episodes in my head, I'm seeing all that dynamic shake out and it's that, it's that age old thing. If you try to be everything, then you're nothing.
Yeah.
And I think that's, you know, part of the problem.
Anthony says he did not love that episode at all
I also just add in here too, while we're on this, track and then I'm going to turn it over to you, because this was my last general reaction. It's just this idea of like things that should have been better but weren't. Anthony like, oh, I did not love that episode at all. This is another one where I felt like on paper it would have been. It's great.
And I mean, it's basically. It should be comic gold. The two of them running around trying to get rid of her diary after it's been subpoenaed. That should be everything. But other than the initial excitement to have him there and see them reunite, it just felt kind of flat, honestly.
I wonder if that one was a little bit of a last ditch effort because it was one of the later episodes which we know they recorded in different orders. We'll go back to the Designing Women thing because I, I read somewhere that the episodes were filmed in a different production order and then they aired them differently. And so I think Anthony's episode fell as one of the episodes maybe that they never ended up getting. It was one of the episodes they never got to air. So it aired on Lifetime. I wonder if it was almost like a last ditch effort to try to again recapture the magic or bring people back in. I wonder if they had to make a special call like me. Shock. Will you please do us this favor? and then like to your point earlier, maybe they threw it together really quickly. I liked it. I feel like again, it could have been more. I thought it was. It was watchable. It was just fine. It was. There were some funny parts. It felt reminiscent of their relationship. but they've definitely had better shenanigans and capers.
Yeah. I mean, I love watching them like, like almost like snuggling in bed together. It's like funny. And then the conga line at the end where he like all like there's these good little snaps, you know, but the whole thing together. Yeah.
Yes.
It's the same thing over and over again that I felt on Designing Women, which is like Meshach Taylor's so good and we just didn't use his talents enough.
I hear that.
How did the Clintons react to this controversy on Designing Women
my last two general reactions. This one I spent a not insignificant amount of time thinking about. So we know the Thomasons were close to the Clintons. they made some comments throughout this season slash series. there was one like something about how Hillary is secretly running the company that was in episode one. They made some one off comments like.
Company, or the country. Country.
Sorry, I meant country.
Okay, sorry. I did. I was just, I was just making sure that I'm Understanding.
So, okay, Hillary's secretly running the country. One, off comments like being about Bill's big old white thighs or whatever from episode two. And then that whole situation about the Lincoln Room sleeping arrangement from episode two. All of that I just couldn't stop thinking about what was the thinking here and how did the Clintons react to this? Some of it like the big old white thighs felt a little inside jokey. But like the Lincoln Bedroom thing was a really big controversy at almost this exact time. Like we weren't far enough removed from this and the end of Clinton's legacy for that to have been an okay plotline.
Okay. In my head that happened much later, like at the end of his second term or something. So that doesn't. Yeah. Okay. That doesn't make me write at all.
I don't, I don't think so. I'm trying. I'm looking down because I put that in my show. References to talk about. We talked about it a lot at some point in Designing Women, but I just couldn't help thinking like that just feels like a miss. A political misfire.
Which I think she's come out and said now.
Okay. Has she?
I think, yeah. I think I ran across some article. I also don't have my source right here, but it was, it was just a private conversation between me and her. no, but I think they were very angry because there had been. They had been pulled into a lot of media stories around the campaign. And they had really kind of, I guess in their. I don't know because it's not like I was sitting there reading the coverage. I've never even seen any of that.
They were on the list of people who were sleeping in the Lincoln Bedroom.
So. But it wasn't just about that. It was just like the Clinton's relationship to people on Hollywood.
Yes.
And how that was not right and how that was really kind of like a, something that shouldn't be happening.
And I, I'm so glad we sorted that out in the political landscape. And there are no conflicts of interest and there are no questionable figures.
I think we're good. And so we solved it. But anyway, she's come out and said like, yeah, maybe we were angry at the time. These are not the exact words. Maybe we were angry at the time and we see some of those things as a, misfire at this point. Like we could have handled that in a different way.
I saw where she said I could have written an editorial instead of bringing in a cast. I saw that it doesn't answer my question though, which is, what did you think this was gonna do? Like, there was no commentary to any of this. Suzanne jumping around on the Lincoln Bedroom didn't put to bed any questions about the appropriateness.
It seemed to me that a lot of times they were trying to just kind of poke at how the media gets a hold of something that's really a nothing burger. I'm not saying that one is, but like, the Styrofoam cup or what he's eating, or like all these other things that. Or like the, the, the dog and what kind of dog breed are they going to get? And like all this kind of stuff and they like, there's always so much like hyper focus on it, and it's really kind of silly and for nothing. And I think that to me seems to be the kind of thing that we're trying to achieve. With that I'm, I agree with you. I'm not sure it got there also. I just, it just wasn't funny.
I was just really curious. The thing that just went through my head over and over again is did they still have dinner together after this? Did they still like, get together on the weekends? Because I feel like if I were in the Clinton's position where they were in 1995, I think I'd be a little miffed at my friends for taking advantage of that for storylines, regardless of what their intention was.
Well, I mean, I'm pretty sure Harry Thomason had to, give testimony at the Monica Lewinsky hearing. So I think they were still hanging.
Out or he was subpoenaed.
That would have been years later with no choice. Oh, yeah. But like, that means they would have been having conversations.
Oh, I see what you mean.
Late 90s, you know what I'm saying? Depending on what he was intimate enough for him. Conversations, that they had had around their affair.
Yeah. So I just feel like that was so weird. It was such a strange choice. I was thinking if I were the Clintons and somebody had a whole TV show where they talk about my big old white thighs.
Or just the fact that, like, even if you're like, you're trying to help or see it as help, but is it helpful? Helpful. And maybe like, if you are talked about all the time in the media, is the help talking about you more in the media.
Right.
Fighting more scrutiny?
I think people are thinking strategy when they're upset
I think. But I think also, like everything you're saying, I, would just say you're thinking strategy. I don't think necessarily people are thinking strategy, especially if they really are upset.
Which is what's so strange to me because I believe what we've learned about Harry and LBT is that they are strategic people. And, especially in the political world, they've made calculated choices. So it just felt weird to me.
Maybe she'll come around.
I hope so.
Last thing. That whole episode is problematic. To me, it feels like toxic masculinity
Last thing.
If, you'd asked me going into the season what I didn't need to see again from Designing Women, Okay. I would have said Dash Goff, the writer. And yet here we are.
Oh, you put it right there in the generals, huh?
Yeah. Here we are. Well, because as soon as that episode popped up, I saw Gerald McRaney would reappear. I saw me Shaq Taylor would reappear. You almost can't miss that. Like there no spoils these. But like, you can't miss that when you Google Women of the House, like it's in the summer. No, I just mean for myself. Before I watched it, I did a couple Googles. Not to spoil anything, but just to sort of again, the summaries and stuff. Those things make it into the summaries. And he showed up and I don't know what I was expecting because I know his character, but boy, oh boy, was it just as bad as I thought it would be.
I, you know, I'm just. I. I love Major Dad.
It's not Gerald McRaney.
It's not.
It's the character.
Yeah. I don't. And then I just don't understand, like. And I. I swear I don't mean any. I don't. Look, we all like what we like. You know what I'm saying? But there are a lot of Designing Women fans that really like, I. What.
Their relationship was almost toxic to me. Like, she didn't want to be married to him, but she didn't want him to love anybody else. She wanted him to only have eyes for her.
Yeah. My question is, does she like sex or doesn't she?
Right, that one.
To me, it feels like this thing that, like, doesn't make any sense between the two series. And even just like around like the last time we met him, it was kind of a similar push pull. And I'm like, every other episode she's like, I don't know, it. It messes my hair.
Maybe she only likes it with one person.
I guess so. You know, and once you've had the best. And they do have incredible chemistry and I know that people like, I think I. I can get on board with hearing more about their love story in real life. And, yeah, I love that he's still out there talking about how fantastic he is with her. That's one.
She deserves that.
Yeah. I just.
I don't deserve Dash Goff, the writer.
I think you can, like, separate the two, too. Yeah. Ah, also, I will go ahead and say that something that really bothered me in that episode was there was this, And it didn't seem to, like, yes, maybe it was to try and teach a lesson, maybe. But it didn't really come across that way, which is like, he basically told her, I'm not interested in you right now because you're not like a. Like a. A younger woman who's naive. You're like an older woman who, like, knows things now, and so I don't find you as sexually attractive. And I was like, she just did. We just.
Toxic masculinity.
And that's like. And we're. Okay, so. And it does come around to where she seduces him in the end. And I guess that's teaching of you or something. But I was just like, what's happening?
You're trying to think strategies. I don't think they were thinking strategy. Yeah. That whole episode is problematic. Yeah. At best.
Yeah.
So that was my last general reaction.
I really feel like the show had potential. I like the imagery and the title sequence
Okay.
Also, slash a dislike. But we're gonna jump into likes next.
I like that. See, look, we're trying to balance. We're trying to bring some perspective here.
Yin and the Yang.
Something, something. A lot of. Lot of yins. Not so many yangs. I like the imagery and the title sequence that was sent to Shirley Eckards. Let's give them something to talk about. The song is a bit of a time capsule for me, but the images of badass women doing badass things is what I think. LBT love the show.
The font they chose, I love it.
I think that was wise. The end. No, I'm just kidding. I had. I have. I have other things, but what about you?
So, again, I mentioned this earlier. I really feel like the show had potential. so to two parts to this one is the writing stayed really snappy. Like, the early seasons of Designing was women. So, again, like, LBT is a woman of so much writing talent that I just. I. I was blown away on some part. So I liked in episode three, that's what's what Friends Are For. Suzanne said, I tried my best to be charming. They asked me about the crime bill, and I gave them what I thought was a real cute answer. And Natalie says, why are my palms beginning to sweat? Suzanne says, I just explained that I'm all for that three strikes thing, but I think we should be just as hard on the women as we are on the men. Especially all those Lorena Bobbit imitators. I mean, I'm sorry, but fair is fair. I say, two balls and you're out. And Sissy pipes up and says, and that was not well received. I thought that was really cute. And then there was an interaction with Veda in episode eight that I loved. she says that her name is. Oh, now I don't remember her part but like it's Veda, like Jada but with a V or something. And then she says, what's your name again? And Sissy says, oh, it's Sissy, like Mississippi, except with an S and a Y and without the ISS Sissippi.
That was really fun.
So delightful.
That was great.
So I feel like the writing had so much promise and they obviously had with politics so much to have commentary on so many funny situations they could get into. I also loved the promise of the continuation of the reformation of Suzanne Sugarbaker. So we know from Designing Women she was moving from self absorbed former beauty queen, into someone who saw more of her value in the world and saw more of what she could contribute to the world. So I love that we're continuing that by bringing her into Congress and letting her see as the season, you know, we start episode one where she's like, I'm just here doing a favor to the governor. I'm just ah, butt in a seat. And then as the, the season goes on, she sort of gets a little more empowered in terms of, you know, she's trying to get respect in one of the early episodes because she knows that if she's going to be here for a while, that's what she's got to do. We got a glimpse. This is one of my dislikes. We didn't get enough of it, but we got a glimpse of maybe some of her passion projects or at least some of the things that resonated with her in terms of bills and policy. So I liked that continuation of her plot line.
Agreed. That is nice. I, I wish we could have if in. In line with what we were saying, like they couldn't decide what they wanted the show to be. We, it felt like we were bouncing around a lot between like the stereotypical airheaded beauty queen and this m more empowered version. Like we couldn't make up our minds. So I wish we could have dug in, but I do feel like that's probably a really hard place to hit and hit correctly.
There were nuggets of good things that fell into three buckets for me
so there were nuggets of good things that fell into three buckets for me. One is that we kind of also get that reappearance that we got in Designing Women too. Not just the reformation of her character, but her as an underestimated character character in her wisdom or kindness. And they shine through it a few different points over the course of this series. I think for me, the best example was in her speech at the end of the first episode where she basically tells people to break out of their DC bubbles and think about real Americans. And then that also, episode, also had, a line that made me laugh. If Mr. Smith came to Washington today, let's be honest, you beat the hell out of them. It's funny because it's also true. True in 95 and true now. The, show was provided these great opportunities for Delta to also really cook. You mentioned the, the Vita thing. There were a couple of different interactions. Or Veda. There are a couple of different interactions they had in episode nine that I thought were really funny. And eight. So in episode nine, she calls a Veda Velveeta. And then when they're watching Nine and a Half Weeks, she says, I'm not into S M, I'm into M M's. And, me too. So just gonna throw that out there. And then in episode eight, after Aveda asked Suzanne why she has so much trouble with her name. Suzanne says, because your name's weird and so are you and I. It's just a really good use of Delta Burke, you know, so, like, more of that, please. And I think, like, my last thought in this particular vein is, like, if it could have happened faster, I think eventually we would have had something there with the main cast. I felt that comfort in chemistry building, particularly between Natty and Emerson. We just didn't get there. And I think there were too many stops and starts. M. I actually think that, like, I think Veda was a good addition.
I think so, too. I think we had too many people to worry about and focus on before she arrived.
Right. And so M. So my understanding of this too is like. So episode nine did air on cbs, but not with the montage.
That's correct.
Okay, so really they only got to see Veda for two episodes?
That's correct.
And I think she was still warming up then. actually, this show kind of made me think, like, I would have liked to have seen her in more things.
She's super cute.
She reminds me of a very, like, I could have seen her as like a 90210 character or something. She has like. And it might just be also that Gen X look about her.
I think that's a lot of that.
Is so cemented in that, that time. Yeah, like, man, she is Gen X on steroids. You know, I mean, and that was the purpose. But what other likes did you have?
I mean, I think that pretty much wraps it up. I will say I felt like the Anthony Suzanne combo was a nice little throwback to Designing Women. It was a nice callback. I, agree with you from earlier that it wasn't everything it could have been. But I think that, honestly that continuation of Suzanne might have been better earlier in the series to remind people while they're there, like why they're there. I feel like there was so much. There must have been so much build up to this because people were devastated when Suzanne left the show. The number of people in 2025 saying that designing Women fell off after Suzanne Sugarbaker left is absurd for people not to have shown up in droves for this show. So I think that if they had moved that episode earlier, maybe it would have reminded people while why they were there and then given them a springboard to explore a little different. But I thought the Anthony Suzanne combo was really. I thought it was funny and it was a nice throwback.
Maybe they would have done this if it had lasted longer, but I think bringing him in more would have made some sense. Yeah, he's a lawyer, it's dc. I've, have a feeling they could have worked something out.
I had this sense he was gonna come back more. When I had heard that he appears in. I think I had read it as appears, not just like random pop up in one episode. So I was expecting him to be there more. But in general, I, I liked the show. I thought some of it was really, really watchable and some of it was like. It was like those early seasons of Designing Women. You're watching these people gel and you're not. Not really sure if you like it or not. But some parts are really funny. I would have watched more of this.
I mostly think the show did not work, but not all of it
there were just some, some choices that were made that me, in all of my infinite television production and writing wisdom would not have made.
I hear you well. So I think this will sound really great. On the back end of that comment, if it's unclear, I mostly think the show did not work. But, that doesn't mean I don't think it was watchable. I mean, those two Things can happen. There's a lot of, like, sitcoms from that era that are just fine, you know? And, I just think, like, despite all of that, to varying degrees, there were episodes that really did pop for me. I. The one where Emerson moves in with Suzanne. But not all of it. Not even most of it. But I like the twist at the end where Emerson writes about Suzanne and how lovely she is. I thought that was really sweet. Like, she kind of tries to make sense of the nonsensical Southern culture a little bit. and that worked for me, the one where Veda joins the cast. Only because I always am intrigued by something that picks apart generations. I just think that's a win because I think people like to be on a side.
It's so funny you say that, because I had that in show references. And my comment was, I just love that the generational hate precedes the collective distaste of millennials.
I'm telling you this. There's always, I think, the timeless. The only one that. Yes, somewhere, some. That someone hated the great generation. You know what I'm saying? So it happened, you know, little young whipper snappers. I don't know. But I, It's also, like, fascinating because Generation X is a largely forgotten generation. I'm not people. Not to me.
Yeah.
Like. Because I think what's funny is, like, from our vantage point, that's who we had our eyes set on.
Right.
Is like elder Millennials. So, like, we're watching Spice Girls. Spice Girls aren't millennials. They're Gen X 9 inch nails. Also a reference in this show. They're Gen X, you know, and so Nirvana.
Ah.
Do you know that my. So, The person who does my hair,
Or cuts my hair, she was in Nirvana.
No, she didn't know who Gen Gen X was at all. She was like, what's that generation between boomers and M Millennials like? And I was like, And she was just. And she called them Gen Z, actually. And she's like, 24. And I was like, well, you're Gen Z. And I was like, that's Gen X. And she was like, there's a Gen X. I was like, yeah. And that's what I mean when I'm saying, like, they really are lost to the sand.
Well, I think it's because somebody somewhere decided millennials were the ones to hate. And it got so much. We get so much heat. And I think it's because the whole Internet thing, the whole. Whatever, whatever. So I think the Xers just I think, yeah. Well, yeah, I've got my own hatred now of the younger whippersnappers.
Do you know?
No, I have a lot of prom. I have a lot of hope for their promise.
It's the Alphas that I'm gonna hate. No, I'm just kidding. Who cares?
The double A's gonna happen.
LBT aired a special episode about violence against women on film and in
So then the other one that I just want to briefly mention is the one about violence against women on film and in. In tv, my favorite episode. I thought the actual hearing, which included real actors speaking on the issue, was so very singular. You know, to me, the entirety of these comments reminds us that it doesn't matter if you start in Carousel Dallas or Heck Debbie Does Dallas. If you're a woman, Hollywood will chew you up and spit you out. And I think that is a tale that needs to be told as, particularly then and even still now. I love that LBT took the time to tell that story, and I love that she did it with. With real people and strategically. So this is a place where I think the strategy. I don't know. I don't know. It changed hearts and minds. But you could see the strategy behind it again, like bringing on an adult film actor and also bringing on Shirley Jones. And they both have quibbles. Yeah, I think that really says something. Carol Burnett coming in and being like, yeah, this is bs, you know, what was it? Someone said this, men go down in a gun blaze or get killed in a gun blaze. Women get killed in their underwear.
Yeah.
I was like, oh, my God. It's absolutely true. And it is. I think it. I don't think it was worse then, but to act like it's fixed now, you know, is. Is not true.
I wasn't sure if I agreed with the take that the montage was necessary to drive home the point of the episode. but when I thought about it again, because I'm just not a big fan of, ah, like explicit stuff just to quote, unquote, make a point. You know, we were talking about this earlier with White Lotus and the incest scene. And like, is that really necessary? Is that really, like, is the discomfort moving the needle in some way, or is it just turning off people who are uncomfortable with it? And I don't know that there's a right answer to that, but I will say I do think there is value in showing as well as telling. So we respect Carol Burnett. What Carol Burnett says as a society, we are likely to believe. But when you actually see it playing out like the, adult film star, we might not believe it. But when you actually see it playing out in these clips, and it's clips ranging from, you know, horror movies from the 70s to current things now, it really does crystallize it a little bit. So I think that brought me around a little bit on the value of it, because I don't know that people would have, would have bought it quite as much.
I didn't think the montage was that bad.
It wasn't that graphic.
I didn't even understand. I think that.
But 1995 for network TV first.
So for me, I think that montage was very important. And I think that CBS's reaction was so hypocritical. up their nose with a rubber hose. Okay. Because some of that stuff looked like TV movies.
Yeah.
So if you're totally fine with that, but you're not okay to show it back to back to make a larger point. Well, that's interesting. You know what I'm saying? It's more of that. It sort of reminds me, like one time I was working in a bar, and it is a daytime lunch, and I brought somebody their food. And one, of those hunger famine commercials came off, and they asked me to please turn it off because they couldn't eat. And I was like, sure. And it's. It's just. It's. There's something about it, like we're. We're missing for the fourth. For the trees, guys. We're missing the forest for the trees. And so I. What I will say is if I fought that hard, I would have chose a different song over the montage.
that's.
That's my. Whatever. I know they. I think they wanted to use that song to make it more uncomfortable. I just think there could have been a better choice. But, I will. I also think it probably worked in their favor because bringing it to Lifetime and making hay of it in the media was much better for them. And I think it got that message out further. I'd be interested to see, like, what actual people who were also in the upper echelons of the industry. You know, they get moved the needle there. But I sure am glad that they were willing to put themselves out on the chopping block for that.
I think it would have been really interesting for them to also put some.
Speaking about entertainment, uh, and media treatment of women
Speaking about entertainment, and media treatment of women. I think Delta Burke's own issues with the press would have been interesting to play out through the character of Suzanne in Washington. There were definitely a couple remarks m. That they shared from press coverage of her like, they use that word zoftig, which basically implies, like a weight issue is what it sort of sounded like it implied to me, like a. A weight or like a physical appearance sort of thing. They did use that at one point. they definitely talked about her, like, her breasts being too big to be a congressperson. So there was a little bit of that. But I feel like that would have been. If you really have an interest in improving the treatment of women in entertainment and in the press, that right there would have been, like, amazing and super meta.
A hundred percent. And I think, we've talked about this, for different reasons, but, like the way that Hillary Clinton's clothes are examined and her hair and the whole time, whether it was this. And I'm picking her because of what we're talking about today, just pulled apart in every.
Feminine enough. Is she too masculine? Was her suit the right color?
Ever, ever, ever talk about with men, you know, and certainly not like to that level of scrutiny, you know, you know, are Michelle Obama's arms too big? Are they too fit? Are they to this? Are they to that? Should she be in a tank top? Should she not be in a tank? What are we doing to women and that. And I think Michelle Obama is just roll that one out. Because that's much newer and like, we just still haven't stopped. And it doesn't get enough to be about between what's between a woman's ears. It's always what's between her shoulders. And I. I think that is, I think that's a damn shame. So I would have loved them to.
Have it have been really interesting.
Yes. And instead they were. That's when they decided to lean into the more silly parts of Suzanne's character. And I. I wonder if that there's some fear there.
There. Hm.
And there, may be some fear between LBT and Delta revisiting some things.
I imagine. I imagine that would be awkward.
Yeah.
Natalie Hollingsworth says politics on LBT did not work
2. I feel like we've already sort of veered into this category a little bit. Dislikes.
So the first thing I have I labeled as the politics of it all. I can't sit here and say with a straight face, the politics can't be the basis for a sitcom. It's ridiculous. See Veep, see Parks and Rec, see Spin City. The latter was a huge hit and came out the year after Women of the House. What I do feel like I can say is that in this case, it did not work. The one obvious thing is that LBT was pulling straight from the headlines of the day using real politicians and real scenarios. And so then I think that alienates a third half of your viewership on a good day.
I feel like maybe this is what gets into her comments about. She could have just written an editorial and not brought everything in. because I do feel like she had clearly some strong opinions on certain issues that she was trying to make a statement on. That did not feel like the most important thing for us to be talking about.
And then it felt like she was seeking a balance in the political sphere, but just couldn't perfectly. It would be like me doing it.
Yeah.
It would just be so blatant. I'd need to bring you in. I'd be like, come on, Nikki. it's very clear what side I'm on. Help me out.
It would be hard to write for Natalie Hollingsworth, so I think out sounding.
Exactly without, it being veering too far into the stereotype or something. I think this also makes rewatch ability tough. It felt a bit kin to picking a political scab and also just so dated. Like, more dated than hair and wardrobe. Like, I can deal with that and see past that, but I can't hear 5,000 references to Newt Gingrich.
Newt Gingrich. We had a lot of references in Designing Women, so much so that we actually pulled out a category to talk about it. But, like, per episode, it would be, like, two or three things. And some of it's a function of our age. Some of it we just felt like we inherently knew. but there it wasn't so much. It wasn't as present, certainly, as it was here. Like, the Newt Gingrich thing is, like, very much a time capsule. That part of it even I had forgotten, like, why is this man so relevant? Like, I know why he's relevant, but, like, to the point that he's become a bit of a punching bag here. so I think. Yeah, I agree with that.
I mean, it's because it's right. When they won the House, they laid the smackdown on the Dems in 95. and which is. There's. This is not unusual. It's highly usual for there to be, if. If a whole party takes over two years later, everybody's over it, and they just vote the other way. Americans, we're the ficklest of voters.
That's all the hope I cling to.
But, like, it's not something that's, like, I find very funny. And I want to sit there and, like, re watch and, like, hear those jokes just Replayed over and over again. what.
The show had a vague plot line that Suzanne was interested in women's issues
What's popping for you in this category?
Just in general, how random the show felt like we weren't marching toward anything thing. So, we had this vague plot line that Suzanne was invested in legislation around women and entertainment. Actually, I think she was voluntold to be interested in that. I think she got appointed to the, committee that was exploring that. But I think as she dug into it a little bit more, she got a bit more of a passion and a heart for it. But, like, it really never went anywhere beyond that, one episode that you've been talking about. It never really went anywhere beyond that. It wasn't like she had this one bill that she was working toward. Like Parks and Rec. They always had this one thing each season that they were working to do that Leslie felt so strongly about, like the hole in the park or whatever, you know, like, there was always this one thing. And I think that's what makes those shows work. It's like this connective tissue, and we didn't have that this season. I think there needed to be a little bit of a connective tissue beyond just this random ping ponging between issues for the women. Women. I, wonder. I mentioned this earlier, that there was supposed to be that Congress, Congresswoman, Sizemore, but that never really came to fruition. Beyond. Dear Diary, I wonder if that was intended to be the connective tissue. And then there was that pivot made.
God, I don't know, but I hate the idea of pitting two women politicians against each other. That sounds like a terrible idea.
So I was thinking maybe the resolution would be them seeing that happening and being like, no, screw that, like, we can work on this together. That's kind of. I could kind of see that. I like that, anytime we had a plot line to follow. So we had this Natalie's dalliance with the congressman who was in jail. We had Jennifer's transition from housewife to working woman. All of that comes to an abrupt end or just isn't discussed again. And I just feel like that's to the disservice of the show. It needed something. It was too ping pongy, and this isn't. It wasn't intended to be a week weekly like snl, where you can bounce between topics and it stays topical and relevant. This was intended to be a sitcom, so it can be relevant. Designing Women showed us that, it can be relevant without losing something, and this one did. So that was a real disappointment for me.
The worst offenders for me is the one where they go to Alaska
So my second dislike is under the category of most of the episodes. I just. I feel terrible saying that, but I simply did not enjoy them. Them. The worst offenders for me is the one where they go to Alaska.
So that was weird. That was very. Oh, I thought I had this written down somewhere. That was very, That one episode where they go and stay in the cabin. The women and the men. The I think was our first episode where they take a road trip.
Yeah. In Designing Women Season 2 of series. finale and. And a fan favorite. So. But yeah, that one was just. I didn't. What were we doing? There was no. At the end. I don't like. So men in Alaska are good and that's what we need to walk away with from that and not to judge.
And way better than women everywhere else. Because women don't want to live in Alaska.
Right. Yeah. I just. I didn't understand the very last episode about the conjugal visit. That was tough. The one where Malone starts dating again and that guy compares relationships ships to baseball in seasons. It was like sitting there with Bill Stillfield again. And then you already mentioned the one with Dash, so that was another banger. I don't know.
Yeah. I think my last dislike is just harping on a point I've already made which this feels like it should have been right within LBT's wheelhouse of like we're talking politics. Politics was obviously a preoccupation for her through Designing Women. She would oftentimes use the characters to make political statement. So that's where I say like should have worked. All the pieces should have aligned and they didn't. And that's just a huge overarching dislike for me. It's just a shame.
Yeah. I.
There's very little explanation for the casting changes on Designing Women
My last one is you've already walked through all the casting changes and shifts throughout the season. But that was the. That one really threw me. Without getting into the details again, just to say there's very little explanation. The whole thing is just bizarre. Like to have to walk into an episode where the person has changed and we're just going to pretend and we're not going to poke at it. You and I had talked extensively in season six of Designing Women about casting changes and how those have been handled well in sitcoms and how they've been handled badly in sitcoms. And for me this was an example of like, I understand stuff happens, I totally get that. But like, like make it make sense because I think as a viewer that pulls you out of the world of the show.
That was mine.
The sleeping in Lincoln's bedroom controversy sparked controversy during the Clinton administration
What about reference Speaking of show references and ones that we may or may not want to unpack, what popped for you?
I, so I mentioned this earlier, the sleeping in Lincoln's bedroom controversy. we talked about this in our season two finale, finale. but, but really briefly for folks, this was a political firestorm during the Clinton administration. It was around allegations that overnight stays in the historic Lincoln bedroom of the White House were being offered to major Democratic donors in exchange for large campaign contributions. So, LBT and Harry were on the list of people who kind of came out when, when all the paperwork was released. it sparked criticism from political opponents and ethics watchdogs, fueling broader concerns about, about campaign finance practices in the 90s. so this is what they played on in episode two, Guess who's sleeping in Lincoln's bedroom and why. I'm like, to what end? So there's one.
The bed still breaks. It does end.
It does. Maybe they were saying it was a garbage bedroom anyway. So what are you all worried about?
I thought the lesson was no one can stop themselves from wanting to jump on Abraham Lincoln's bed.
That could be it. Maybe.
Who among us would not jump on that bed? I had like, just again, coming back to all of the politics. So crossfire. More Clinton references than you can shake a stick at. George Bush being stupefied by a scander scanner. Jesse Helms, the conservative North Carolina senator. Again, we don't have to go back to Newt Gingrich. We've been to that well and back a few times. Bob Packwood. I'm gonna have to read, something to you because if I had to hear it, then you have to hear it.
Oh, no.
Do you know who Bob Packwood is?
No.
So they made a joke about him. He's a senator who resigned after nearly 20 women came forward alleging sexual harassment in the early 90s. He resigned in September of 1995, the day before he was about to be expelled from the Senate for his behavior. And let me tell you something. If they were expelling him in 1995, some, stuff went down. That's all I'm saying. Anyways, I also just one reason I'm reading this is because I think it's going to be a queue up, a good queue up for our special episode and movie this year. Like, is going to be like our men.
That bad?
Are we painting too bad of a picture? I don't know, Nikki. You tell me. So this was from one of his journals. And this is what he wrote in his personal, personal journal. Journal that was subpoenaed, which I'm guessing inspired the Susan.
Oh, that makes sense.
It. It does. But we're kind of aligning, her with a dirt bag, so I. I don't know. There are also are several instances of journals being subpoenaed.
That's fascinating to me.
Yeah.
So, you literally, like, sign away all rights to privacy. I'm not sure I. I've never really given it a lot of thought, but I'm not sure I had processed. That would be in that case, the peanut. A.
In case anything ever happens. I've never journaled a day in my life and I never will.
For the record, this is why I don't.
This is. Now, what we have done is spent thousands of hours recording every single thing that we say, including sometimes where thoughts pop into our head and we could have just said, no, no, Salina, don't say that out loud. And then Salina says it out loud anyway. And then she goes back and hears something, goes, gosh darn it, don't say it out loud. Whatever.
That's fine.
So this is what was in his journal. Anyways, again, just keep this in mind we get to our special episode.
Nikki: Why did she come into the Xerox room?
Okay, I have one question. If she didn't want me to feather her nest.
M hm.
Why did she come into the Xerox room? Well, damn it. Make copies.
She didn't want to be there anyway.
Bob. Come on. Anyways, sure, she used that old excuse that she had to make copies of the Brady Bill, but if you believe that, I have a room full of radical feminists you can buff. She knew I was copying stuff in there. I had my jacket off and my sleeves rolled up, revealing the well defined musculature of my sinewy arms, which are always bulging with desire. I know what she wanted. This didn't require a lot of thought. Get out of, Here, Bob.
He wrote that in his. Was he also a romance novel writer?
A really bad one.
Sinewy ropes of my. Bulging with desire forearms.
It's like I. I would rather read a description of a penis than that. That. I don't even know what is happening there.
I was pretty sure that's what you were reading.
He just said forearm.
He just said,
Got it. Sorry. Slow.
He knew those were subpoena.
This is just like. What is even happening anyway? So just the next time that we're like. But men aren't that bad. Just remember that journal entry. That was something he did in his free time, Nikki.
He voluntarily wrote that down.
And I want to Say again? I don't. And nor have I ever, nor will I ever Journal. That's all.
Howell Raines wrote a Pulitzer Prize winning piece on race relations
What kind of references did you have, Nikki?
I only have a couple more things I wanted to mention. I feel like there were a lot of references this season and that could have been the whole episode. episode three. They mentioned Howell Rains, the editorial page editor of the New York Times. So he wrote a Pulitzer Prize winning piece on race relations. So this was coming up as Suzanne was trying to figure out how to get more respect from the like, Washington types. I tried really hard to find a copy of this, to read it myself. And even like logging into the New York Times and searching their archives, it wouldn't. I couldn't find it. I found a lot of responses to the editorial that the Times got. but it was ah, a again, an editorial titled Grady's Gift. It was a reflection on race, privilege and human connection in the American South. So it recounts Raines childhood relationship with Grady, a black domestic worker who helped raise him in Birmingham, Alabama. So he shares some deeply personal memories, and examines how Grady's quiet dignity and kindness influenced his moral development, contrasting her strength with the racial injustices of the segregated society around them. it's both a tribute to Grady and a candid reckoning with Reigns's own complicity in a system of inequality. so he uses his personal story to explore the complexities of race relations, the enduring impact of early influences and the quiet heroism of people like Grady, who endured systemic racism with grace. The piece resonated for its emotional depth, honesty, and the way it illuminated broader social truths through a single intimate relationship.
I'm glad you brought that up. And I'm wondering if, the way a piece from that time period that probably read very progressive then. Were you curious how progressive it reads now?
Yes, I was.
And do is there a chance that the New York Times has decided that wasn't worn worth archiving?
Maybe. So two things that I will say. one I skimmed. So again what I could find was responses from readers and a lot of them were supportive. There was one in particular that I found that said it's a fine article, but what I really want to read is Grady's perspective. And so that to me is the 2025 version. So I was really fascinated that someone in 93, I think it was wrote in and said that it's quite amazing. So that's really cool. the second thing I'll say is that Reigns, apparently there's been a lot more criticism in like the early 2000s. So he transitioned into the editor of the New York Times after serving at several newspapers and as bureau chief in the south act, actually in Atlanta. So he transitioned into the New York Times. He was the editor for, I think it was about a decade. And I saw that there was an article called the Downfall of, Harold Rain. Howell Raines. And apparently he had an author on staff, a writer on staff, who, if they wrote 56 articles, 36 of them had errors or bylines that were wrong or sources that were wrong or content that was made up. And he continually overlooked that. And I think it had a racial component. And he had been warned multiple times that this writer was not a good writer and shouldn't have been writing for the New York Times. And he looked over that because he. I think he didn't want to be accused of being racist, basically. And so he got ousted from his position at the Times. And so it became this conversation about his legacy. And was he really that good of an editor, basically. He also apparently was a difficult personality and bullied a lot more than he mentored. And so that didn't resonate very well with the writers on staff. So I think. I think it's more about his personal legacy than about the content of the editorial. But I also felt like the content of the editorial was gonna feel a little Driving Miss Daisy, which, they talked about in one of the episodes of this series as well. it's a nice story, but when you look at it with 20, 25 eyes, it feels and resonates a little differently.
Okay, that's. That's helpful. yeah, I just. And I also, like. I think my struggle is, in these conversations, because I. I will say that's. You heard me say earlier, I didn't care for a lot of that episode, but I liked the twist at the end, which is because hearing the 1995 progressive version of race, race relations was like. It was like fingernails on a chalkboard at different points. That said, one thing I want us to continue to, underscore when we have these kinds of conversations is like, the conversation shouldn't look the same, because then it's not progressivism.
Right.
If we are exactly where we were in 1995, then somewhere we dropped the ball. And so part of me is like, oh, this is good. Like, it's good that this was progressive for then and now. Progress looks different. all that said, I would. I wish you could have found that article, because I would also like to.
Read it had no success. And I even went through the library to find it. Couldn't find it.
Well, some things aren't meant to be.
I'm a failure.
Unless someone wants to know. If you can't find it, I'm not sure it's findable. So I challenge someone.
Well, I ran out of time, too.
So I challenged someone to please find it, share it with us.
Wants me to look like an idiot.
If you made it to the 124th minute of women of the House. I had a couple of more references. Did you have more? Are you wrapped up?
I have one more.
Okay, tell us about it.
Salina says she searched high and low for reference to 90s controversy
So I again searched high and low for some reference to this issue of the treatment of women in TV and movies in the 90s. Like, what was the genesis of this story? Yeah, I couldn't find it. did you find anything?
I didn't even look for it.
Oh, I looked so hard. I thought for sure there was a bill. There was some sort of moment, like, collective moment in Hollywood, like a me, too movement.
This felt to me more. I wish there was. Why aren't we so. That doesn't mean it wasn't true, but that's why I didn't go looking for it, because I just felt like maybe this was LBT saying, like, hey, guys, why don't y'all get a bill together about this? you know, I think it's interesting because I'm just gonna go ahead and say you're gonna. You're about to tell people anyway, but we're gonna do Thelma and Louise, and.
I won't be doing my outro this week. Thanks for spoiling that. I have nothing left to share.
Should I turn. Should I turn everything off now?
Yeah. Show's done, guys.
It's interesting, the through lines. I feel like it's like this. This piece is sort of bridging us to talking about Thelma by design. Absolutely.
That's how we plan this.
It's absolute. There is no.
There are no coincidences, Salina. No. Except in this case and in most cases in this podcast.
I think it's a really. It's a really good coincidence in this case because, we're gonna. When I think about someone who really has spent the rest of their career focusing on representation of women in the movies and on tv, it's Gina Davis. And so we'll talk more about that in our Thelma and Louise episode. but that doesn't really start happening into the early 2000s. But, you know, who know. I mean, I don't think her organization started until the early 2000s. And so, but it is, I think things like this that LBT did that sort of drum. It could have helped drum up some interest at the time and other, you know, things that were happening around then. And in some things in real life, like the Monica Lewinsky's and all of these things that have led to at least people being like, oh, maybe we shouldn't be killing women in underwear all the time. Maybe just every fifth time, you know, so one can hope.
There's a reference to Dream Girls in Designing Women that's funny
this is a rough transition to some of my other references here, but Dream Girls came up and I couldn't help but think about Cheryl Lee Ralph and that kind of being an interesting bridge from the end of Designing Women to this. I think that they're singing a Dream Girl song in the first episode. There's a scene where Veda says to Natty and Suzanne, which one of you is my mother? And like, and then everybody seemed to know except for Suzanne.
And I was like talking about.
And I was saying the same thing personally. Did you know what that was from? So I looked that up. It's from a 1984 miniseries that was called, called Lace.
Oh, wait, I did look this up. Yeah, I just didn't write it down. I did look this up.
Yeah. It's about a young actress thought to be easy and without morals. I didn't write this. That gathers three former schoolmates to find out who her mother is. But that does sound like the exact description that somebody would have written in 1984. Well, see, it's about this and then, all the Gen X references. But it's just funny and I know we've already talked about this a little bit because these literally to. They sound like the same things that we would say about the youngest generation now, which is your point from earlier, but it's like piercings and lip injections and they're calling them the new bohemians. and then there are those things that are inextricably Gen X, like mosh pits and nine inch nails. Nine nails, yeah. So. Well, there you go.
I am a little bit worried on that note about. I, I guess they're younger. I don't know, maybe they are Gen Z. But like, Skinny Talk is having a moment now where, nothing feels as. No brownie tastes as good as skinny feels. And a moment on the lips is a lifetime on the hips or whatever. That's happening a lot more on social media now. And that's just recently come into my orbit. And, there's almost this unapologetic, like, I'm not afraid to tell you that I like being skinny and I like taking up less space. And I don't know why you all are okay being fat. And these are, like, 17 and 18 year olds, and I'm so curious about that. Like, I know everything comes back in. Into fashion, but the fact, like, we have progressed so far to where we are now, and that's a conversation that's popping up again, and I'm wondering where it's coming from. That's the part where I get sad about this next generation.
Yes. Because there's a lot of ways in which there's. But I also think it's probably, like, you have, like, a little bit of a dichotomous thing happening in that generation as well. But, like, there's typically younger generations wind up being more liberal and then older.
Right.
Get the more conservative you get. But there's a little bit of a conservative backlash. That's another thing right now too. so maybe the once on your lips and forever on your hips is going along with that. I don't know. Not casting any, judgments. Just saying those two might be hand in hand.
I don't understand it at all.
No, I sure don't. That's why my voice is getting real high.
I know you're editing. You're self editing a lot. I hear it.
It.
I hear it happening.
Makes me want a brownie. That's all I'm saying.
Designing Woman season six is officially over
All right, well, is that it?
I think so.
All right. We did it.
Yeah.
Designing Woman is officially over.
I also just want to say that I'm so glad that we did watch this. Like, I think I would be really upset with myself if we hadn't really rounded out. Like, this is the end of the journey. Like, for real. For real.
Is it, though? Because there's, like, other shows in the LBT universe, and so maybe we need to finish those to do our. To do our, final lap.
You push me into victory lap. Nikki. I did them.
And it has been rave reviews from the listeners, Salina. Rave reviews.
Everybody's like, we totally.
We've turned so many people on the corner. Yes.
Well, I don't think we turned anybody on.
That's. That's our, Yeah, I know. We did. You. We didn't. And maybe six.
Yeah.
Or we've at least normalized the season six love a little bit so that they feel comfortable coming out of the.
I see Shadows Season six was.
It was good.
Solid.
Yeah, it's. It's fine to be normalized.
Yeah.
Well, Salina's already ruined it. that our next episode is a special movie episode and it's going to be about Thelma and Louise.
Well, we could pivot and then we don't cover it, and then we have to come up with something at the last minute. If you'd like, I'll.
That sounds nice. That sounds like an excellent use of my time. That's why my voice is getting higher.
M. May I recommend the Long Kiss Good Night, also with Gina Davis.
Oh, total banger. I maybe have seen that one.
So good.
Well, I hadn't seen Thelma and Louise. Salina has pestered me about this for, would you say since 2001, before we.
Even knew each other?
Before we even knew each other. She's been trying to get me to watch this movie. but it's. Yeah, Bernice gave it a plug in season seven. Salina won't stop talking about it. So we're gonna watch it. I've already watched it and it's brought me down.
So we're not gonna tell everyone about how I said we can totally watch Doc Hollywood. Nikki.
It's the way she says it. You guys don't hear the tone. I mean, we can totally.
No, it is. It is from a soft spot. My heart that says I only want to make you happy.
Can totally watch that. but so we're gonna have Brandon from Front Row Classics join us to talk about about this modern day classic film. And then we are going to talk to him about another movie, this one called Jezebel, which is a southern movie.
And I think there's a nice line between those two as well, because Susan Saranda kind of Sarandon kind of looks like Bette Davis to me.
I can see that.
Yeah, there's like some strong female character things happening between the two, so I could see that. Yeah. Well, she's also played Bette Davis.
And maybe we can finally answer the question, are men really that bad?
And the answer is yes. I'm kidding. I'm kidding, Casey.
so we'd love everyone to follow along with us, engage Instagram and Facebook at Sweet tea and TV. Tick tock. Sweet TV pod. YouTube. SweetTV7371. Our email address is sweettvpodgmail.com and our website is www.sweettv.com. you can support the show. Lots of ways you can tell your family and friends about us. Salina always asks whenever someone comments on something, but did you rate or review the podcast? Wherever you listen.
Feel free to email us and suggest future seasons for the show
And also, thank you.
Thank you. And yes, and please go ahead. It's easy. It's easy peasy. and then you can visit the website, for some other ways to support the show. And then my shameless plug is. Feel free to email us as listener Zach did this morning, and suggest future seasons for the show.
I feel like over the course of this episode, I've gotten shorter
We're at a bit of an impasse.
I don't even know what to say, except for I feel like over the course of this episode, I've gotten shorter.
I'm looking at the time stamps and I'm wondering, have you though. Oh, you mean shorter height wise? Okay. I don't know, man. I can't help you.
I just. I look like.
Is it the weight of the world?
Oh, maybe. I just feel so small and helpless.
Well, you're a woman.
Don't worry. Life will kick you in the crotch. And on that note, we hope to see. Well, we won't see you, but we hope that you'll come back and join us next week. And you know what that means, Nikki?
What does it mean, Salina?
It means we'll see around the cliff.
Byeeeeee....?
Comentários