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Designing Women S3 E19 - The Real Women of Atlanta

Updated: Jun 1, 2023

What does riding a hobby horse, straddling a desk chair, and sucking on a string of pearls have in common? It’s all part of a good day’s work! Or at least it is according to the skeevy photographer who shows up to photograph the ladies for an article in a national magazine.

Stick around for this week’s “Extra Sugar” about women in business where we’ll hear from a special guest AND highlight some businesses right here in Atlanta.

Looking for more? We got ya’:

Come on, let’s get into it!



Salina: Hey, Nikki.

Nikki: Hey, Salina.

Salina: And hello, everyone, and welcome to Sweet TNTV.

Salina: Hey, y'all.

Salina: Welcome.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: And it's been a while again, darn.

Salina: It has, yeah.

Salina: Okay, well, we've got a lot to cover today.

Salina: We got a big episode.

Salina: We got some surprises coming along.

Salina: But before we get to that first, Nikki Maze.

Salina: Yes.

Salina: You went on a trip.

Nikki: We want to hear about you.

Nikki: You allege, I went on a trip?

Salina: It was weeks ago.

Salina: Well, okay, but we can't do anything about that, so I'll just go ahead and spoil it that Nikki went to Disney World.

Salina: Disney?

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Mickey, Minnie, Mickey Mouse clubhouse.

Salina: Something's happening.

Salina: My brain turned off.

Salina: No, it happens to the best of us.

Salina: So I thought that what we could do is talk.

Salina: I want to hear a little bit about it, and I hope you all do, because you're about to hear about it.

Nikki: Otherwise, fast forward.

Salina: Yeah, that's always an option.

Salina: I thought I would just ask, like, you were just in Disney, which is one of my favorite places on Earth.

Nikki: It's the most magical place on Earth.

Salina: It is.

Salina: What was your number one favorite thing that happened?

Salina: I know that's tough because it sounds like it was a good trip, but if you had to just pick one.

Nikki: Thing that is really tough, I have a couple of front runners.

Nikki: I rode Tower of Terror with my son.

Nikki: Tower of Terror at Hollywood Studios is one of my favorite rides.

Nikki: My daughter flat out said, no, she would never do it.

Nikki: My son is young enough that he didn't know to question it, so he wrote it with me.

Salina: And how did he feel about it?

Nikki: He doesn't want to do it again, but he didn't cry or anything.

Nikki: I was fully prepared for him to cry and me to feel like a terrible parent, but he didn't, so that was great.

Nikki: I rode Space Mountain with my daughter.

Nikki: Space Mountain is another one of my favorite rides, and that was magical.

Nikki: She said, I really liked it.

Nikki: Mommy probably don't want to do it again, but I really liked it for you.

Nikki: I'm glad I was able to do that for you.

Nikki: So funny.

Nikki: But we also ate dinner in Cinderella's castle.

Salina: Oh, you did?

Salina: We did.

Nikki: Which was sort of like a bucket list item for me.

Salina: I love that.

Salina: It's a bucket list item for you.

Salina: Yes.

Salina: Why?

Nikki: Yeah, it's a bucket list item for all of us, but especially me.

Nikki: I just wanted to know.

Salina: I just want to know, right?

Salina: It's like the room that you can stay in there, but you can only be invited.

Nikki: You have to be invited.

Nikki: You can't even pay your way into it.

Nikki: Yeah, I looked that up.

Salina: It's the only thing that's keeping me.

Salina: Right.

Salina: Otherwise, I'd be like, lay all the money down.

Nikki: We went to Disney last year for my daughter's fifth birthday, and we planned everything super last minute.

Nikki: And one of the things about Disney, this is probably the thing that irks me the most, is, like, how in the weeds you have to be on it to get to do the things you want to do.

Nikki: So it's just if you don't know, you don't know.

Nikki: So if you don't realize that you have to make reservations 60 days in advance or whatever it is, and you have to be online when the reservation system opens at 06:00.

Nikki: A.m., you miss it all.

Nikki: And so we booked everything within, like a month and a half last time and just missed everything.

Nikki: So this time we were like, nope, we're going to plan it in advance, and we're going to do all these things.

Nikki: So we got on the website I think it's 60 days.

Nikki: I might have that wrong, but, like, however many days in advance.

Nikki: And my husband and I were on two different computers, two different phones, trying to see what reservations we could get.

Nikki: We could only get 315 for a dinner seating.

Salina: Oh.

Nikki: So we ate dinner at 315.

Salina: Oh, were you hungry again later?

Nikki: Yes.

Nikki: And that was the night we were at Magic Kingdom.

Nikki: So that was the night my husband had treated me to the Mickey's Not So Scary Halloween party, which had, like a hocus pocus theme.

Nikki: So he had gotten us tickets for that after hours event.

Nikki: So we had an opportunity to eat other things later.

Nikki: But yeah, we were definitely hungry again.

Nikki: But it was really good.

Nikki: It was very expensive.

Nikki: But the service, once you get seated, the service was really top tier, and it was really nice.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: I would love for you to, but I know we need to get into the episode.

Salina: Give me a taster for the menu.

Salina: Anything.

Nikki: Let's see what I can remember.

Salina: Is it like chicken?

Nikki: Well, I was going to show you.

Nikki: I got a champagne flight, and they have some, like because it was the 50th anniversary celebration going on.

Nikki: So one of the champagnes that I had had glitter in it, and they.

Salina: Were did it change the taste of the drink?

Salina: The shimmer?

Nikki: I don't think so.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: I don't think so.

Nikki: I had pork belly.

Nikki: So I had pork belly and like a corn of some kind.

Nikki: And then I think that other thing is like sweet potatoes.

Nikki: I think my kids had chicken tenders, of course, but it came with landon got mashed potatoes, which were heavenly.

Salina: Oh, yeah.

Nikki: They were super whipped and super delicious.

Nikki: And then, of course, you can see he's eating a corn on the cob.

Nikki: And then Kyle, I think, got some kind of steak.

Nikki: But I did go ahead and order.

Nikki: It comes with dessert.

Nikki: So I went ahead and got a dessert.

Nikki: This was like a chocolate mousse.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: A mousse covered with, like a chocolate coating or something.

Nikki: But this was really the best part.

Nikki: We were celebrating my son's birthday, so I got him a mickey Mouse chocolate cake.

Nikki: And it's like shaped like a little dome.

Nikki: And it has Mickey Mouse ears on it.

Nikki: And the kids also it's like an inclusive dinner.

Nikki: You get dessert too, which is why we have cake and a separate dessert.

Nikki: Both the kids did a cupcake decorating plate.

Nikki: So they bring you some mini cupcakes and like toppings and stuff.

Salina: They really know what they're doing.

Nikki: They really know how to cater to a kid.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: And an adult who wants to be a kid.

Salina: Yeah, and I definitely fall into that category.

Nikki: I got a Mickey Mouse pretzel too.

Salina: It's a pretzel Y'all shaped like Mickey Mouse.

Salina: Shaped like Mickey Mouse.

Nikki: Really?

Salina: They have their branding is just like on point.

Nikki: It really's just so amazing.

Nikki: Like, Hollywood Studios has the Star Wars land.

Nikki: This is called a Wookie cookie.

Nikki: It's an oatmeal, like, almost like an oatmeal cream pie that looks like Chewbacca.

Nikki: Yeah, it has, like, decorations to make it look like Chewbacca.

Nikki: So those were top moments.

Nikki: Like, the food was top for me, but also at Hollywood Studios because they have Star Wars lands.

Nikki: One of the other things that we did was book reservations for the kids to make Droids.

Nikki: So they're like these remote control robots.

Nikki: But before that, Kyle made himself a lightsaber and he could only take one child with him.

Nikki: You can only take one person with you to your appointment.

Nikki: So he took Landon because it was Landon's birthday trip.

Nikki: When they came out, Landon was sobbing.

Nikki: And I thought Landon was upset because he didn't get a lightsaber.

Nikki: And I was like, Bud, like, you can't get everything.

Nikki: And he was like, I don't know.

Nikki: It's not that.

Nikki: And I was like, what is going on?

Nikki: And it took us a couple of minutes as he's like, sobbing, to try to pull out his words.

Nikki: It's a very immersive experience building the lightsaber.

Nikki: And there's a bunch of script about how you're going to go into the universe and fight bad guys and this, that, and the other.

Nikki: Landon thought Kyle had built a lightsaber and was now going to leave us and go out into the universe and fight the bad guys.

Salina: Bless his heart.

Nikki: Really sad.

Salina: Yeah, it was really sad.

Salina: They're really doing a good job then.

Nikki: It's so true to character.

Nikki: So fortunately, our appointment to make the Droids was right after that.

Nikki: So it was a very quick, like, no, Landon, this is all pretend.

Salina: Oh, this is all pretend.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: So, yeah, we left and did the droids.

Nikki: And making the droids was really, really fun.

Nikki: The kids absolutely loved it.

Nikki: So there were so many high points.

Nikki: I mean, the trip was amazing.

Nikki: We were only gone three days and we went to three parks.

Nikki: So it was just like one thing after the other.

Nikki: So we came home super duper tired.

Nikki: And I wish we had built in a buffer day because it felt like we didn't have time to breathe.

Nikki: But also it was just so much packed into Buffer Day at the end of every trip.

Nikki: It would have been helpful.

Nikki: Our flight back was really early, so we did have all day Sunday before we went back to work on Monday.

Nikki: But kids schedules at school make it hard.

Nikki: We wanted to go on a weekend where there wouldn't be a ton of people, but anyway, we also did Epcot.

Nikki: We did Hollywood Studios, Magic Kingdom and Epcot.

Nikki: I've never been to Epcot, so this was my first time.

Nikki: I loved it.

Nikki: I thought it was super fun.

Nikki: I think it's something I probably couldn't go back and redo with the kids.

Nikki: It's just not a super in my opinion.

Nikki: Not a super kid friendly park.

Nikki: They have the frozen ride now and they have Ratatouille.

Nikki: Ratatouille is apparently, like, the hardest ride at all of Disney to get on.

Salina: I think it's about the adults, though.

Nikki: I think it is, yeah.

Salina: I mean, before we had done any international travel, going through Epcot was like speaking of tasters, it's a little done up, more so than probably most of the real places are because it's like but you're walking through little slices of the world, right?

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: We were there in the middle of the food and Wine festival.

Nikki: Too fun.

Nikki: But I really didn't meet very much.

Nikki: You're just going so fast that I didn't really eat that much.

Nikki: I had a CReP from France where Ratatouille was.

Nikki: I had a margarita from I think it was Mexico.

Nikki: And we tried some sliders and they were fine, but they weren't like I wouldn't write home about them, so we didn't eat that much.

Nikki: I feel like we were trying to get to the rides because they have a brand new Guardians of the Galaxy ride, which was like a whole event to try to get on it.

Nikki: Anyway, it was really fun.

Nikki: I would like to go back, just me and Kyle.

Nikki: Like, I would love to do Park Hoppers and then have him and I just go in the evening.

Salina: Well, you heard it right here.

Salina: Her number one favorite experience was all the experiences.

Salina: So that doesn't show how great Disney World is.

Salina: I don't know what whip.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: So it was an amazing trip.

Nikki: Should we talk about designing women?

Salina: We probably should.

Nikki: Season Three Episode 19 Perhaps man we.

Salina: Are barreling towards the end of this season close.

Nikki: This episode is called The Women of Atlanta.

Nikki: Hulu IMDb mashup description you want to say anything about that?

Salina: I don't remember.

Salina: I wrote this a long time ago.

Nikki: So Salina mashed together, too, apparently.

Nikki: It says the women agreed to pose for a famous photographer's upcoming magazine spread called The Women of Atlanta, but soon they're suspicious when he requests poses that are purely sexual.

Nikki: Air date May 1, 1989 we're calling this one the Real Women of Atlanta.

Nikki: It's written by LBT and directed by Harry Thomason.

Nikki: General reactions.

Nikki: What you got?

Salina: Yeah, I'll get into the specifics when we get into the category, but I really liked this one a lot.

Salina: I thought it was a lot of fun and it really made me think, which I always like.

Salina: It's a bonus, I think, for a show to kind of make you go through the layers.

Salina: I think you'll see that as I start to give some of my other feedback.

Salina: What about you?

Nikki: I think, and maybe along similar lines, I will never cease to be amazed at the stories that LBT can weave together happening just in Sugar Bakers.

Nikki: It's crazy to me that this entire episode was built around this one specific location, but it's this story that was so not related to interior design.

Nikki: For instance.

Nikki: Like, it had nothing to do with consulting with clients in an interior design business.

Nikki: But she had a storyline in mind that she wanted to tell about professional women and how they continue to be treated sub to men.

Nikki: And she did it all within the bounds of the house without making or the office without making it feel like this didn't feel like a stretch to me like some episodes do.

Nikki: This one felt really, like, appropriate.

Salina: Yeah, I agree.

Salina: So my other one is because I do really think this one was fun and I really liked it.

Salina: But when I said that, it really made me think part of what I did is I kind of went out and I wanted to look into a few things.

Salina: It's going to start to crystallize, I promise.

Salina: But the themes in this one were still highly resonant, I think, at least for me as a woman.

Salina: So what I mean by that is women as sex objects, women trivialized, women forced to deal with us in the first place, that it's a conscious or maybe unconscious part of our day in the first place was like really something that hit me and that got me thinking about where we are today.

Salina: Is it better?

Salina: That was sort of the rhetorical question going through my head.

Salina: And so I think in some ways it is.

Salina: I think the culture has shifted.

Salina: I think women are pushing back more than ever, and they're pushing back with their dollars.

Salina: It's interesting that also in this year, I've also watched two other things that sort of speak to pushing back with the dollars.

Salina: It has shifted the very body of the iconic Barbie doll and it's diversified the portfolio of angels at Victoria's Secret.

Salina: So I think we are seeing some of those things play out in real time, or at least in the past three ish years.

Salina: But on the flip side of that, progress is slow.

Salina: You know that that's what they say.

Salina: And there's nothing like this show to remind you how slow progress is sometimes.

Salina: And it unravels pretty easily.

Salina: So I think I see just as much fantasization.

Salina: Sounds like I had three drinks and tried to say that word, but like the fantasizing component of women and almost just like making women into a commodity on social media, as people would have seen in a magazine spread 30 years ago.

Salina: So that was kind of something that I was thinking about at the same time.

Salina: Does that resonate with you at all?

Nikki: Yes, that's a lot to chew on.

Nikki: Yeah, I think I agree with you definitely about women pushing back and I would say in addition to doing it with their dollars, I think there are a lot of influential celebrities who are pushing back against the sexualization of women and the unnecessary sexualization in some instances.

Nikki: And so it's just sort of influential women finding their voice and then it's just that consistent reminder of how people with a platform can change society.

Nikki: And so if you hear that A*** Witherspoon, for instance, and I'm just using her as an example, I don't have a really good example recently, but if you hear that she was asked to do a magazine cover that made her feel uncomfortable and she's like, why do you have me in next to nothing?

Nikki: And she pushes back and she's influential so she gets to do that, then it motivates you to do that if you feel like you're put in that position and it kind of gives you a voice.

Nikki: So I think I feel like the celebrity females, we have a lot more great role models who feel like they have agency.

Nikki: We had great role models before, but maybe they didn't have the same amount of agency.

Salina: And it's weird how social media can be this great thing and also this horrible thing because I think on the one hand there is always some sort of unattainable look being forced upon us.

Salina: I don't care what it is, it's always ridiculous and it's never something that we can achieve.

Salina: And I could go back to Botticelli and on Forward, it's market driven, it's culture driven, it's patriarchal, it's all of the things.

Salina: But on the flip side of that, on social media and what you're talking to, if it's a Reese Witherspoon or like Kendall Jenner, whoever it is, they can also automatically get on social media when they feel like they've been put in an uncomfortable spot.

Salina: They're no longer being seen like a Delta Burke was or something through this lens of the media.

Salina: Right?

Salina: They are, but we'll do that too.

Salina: But they also can get out there and put their own voice out there in a much faster way and I think in a way that is a little bit more organic and reaches people so quickly, which is important.

Salina: I've got one more serious thing that I want to share and then I swear I'm going to get off my high horse here, but I just want to be clear again, like, yes, this was a super fun episode, at least for me.

Salina: I am really interested to hear what your thoughts are, because I think a lot of times we sort of feel the opposite.

Salina: Our most fun episodes, sometimes we're on the exact same page.

Nikki: Yin and yang and whatnot.

Salina: Yes, but I think we would be remiss to skip over the fact that big organizations like UNICEF are linking the objectification and sexualization of girls in the media to violence against women and girls worldwide.

Salina: This is not an insignificant issue.

Salina: I mean, I think that's actually one of the really cool things about this episode is they don't whop you over the head like I'm about to.

Salina: She does it in this really subtle fashion that makes you laugh, and it's enjoyable, and it's not like sitting in the middle of a PSA or something.

Salina: But I think it's really important to talk about what these things do to women because it impacts their self worth, their self esteem.

Salina: It's linked to eating disorders.

Salina: Listen to these stats from the dove self esteem project.

Salina: Only 11% of girls worldwide would call themselves beautiful.

Salina: Six in ten girls avoid participating in life activities because of concerns about the way they look.

Salina: One third of all six year olds in Japan experience low body confidence.

Salina: Australian girls list body image as one of their top three worries in life, while 81% of ten year old girls in the US.

Salina: Say they are afraid of being fat.

Salina: I felt like that is this episode is covering a lot of things you said from the top.

Salina: Like, we're talking about women in business here, but we're also talking about a man who was coming into Sugar Bakers and trying to hypersexualize these women to sell magazines.

Salina: And so it does feel like it's sort of all in the mix.

Salina: And so I think this was a big and important swing for LBT.

Salina: Like I said, it's subtle, but that's what I think made it so darn good.

Nikki: I think the stats around how young women and girls see themselves are those resonate with me so firmly because I'm raising a girl.

Nikki: And I have read that it's just a natural layer of development around seven or eight.

Nikki: That's about the age that you start comparing yourself to other people.

Nikki: I don't think it's media driven.

Nikki: I think that's just your brain, like that new wrinkle in your brain that says, like, oh, other people are around me, and we all look different, and am I different?

Nikki: And so that part is natural.

Nikki: The part that is unnatural and I think is directly related to the media's influence is you mentioned ten year olds, but I think I've read as early as eight year olds, some alarming number of eight year olds are thinking about what they're eating as a way of losing weight.

Nikki: That is horrifying to me because my daughter is just not even quite two years from that.

Nikki: And that feels so young to me to worry about that.

Nikki: So that resonates with me a lot.

Salina: Well, I'll put myself out there.

Salina: I remember starting to weigh myself when I was about eight years old.

Salina: What the h*** was I worried about?

Salina: And it is interesting.

Salina: I do agree with what you're saying.

Salina: I think it's coming from multiple angles.

Salina: I think some of it is, like, the way that just the human brain works.

Salina: And unfortunately, sometimes the human brain works against us.

Salina: I mean, that's just the facts.

Salina: But on the other hand, it is all of these other cultural things.

Salina: The environment which you're grown up in, the way that your parents talk to you, the way that people in your orbit talk to you, the things that they're not saying to you, but you pick up on, especially at that age when you're like a sponge.

Salina: And there is a lot of pressure we've talked about this.

Salina: There's a lot of pressure on women about the way that we look.

Salina: I think some book I read one time that said that women could run the world if we hadn't spent 37% of our life shaving.

Salina: And I was like, My God, it's true.

Salina: So, anyways, I don't know.

Salina: Just something to chew on.

Salina: It's a big chew.

Nikki: It's a lot.

Salina: Big league.

Nikki: It is sort of interesting that in this episode, the one woman who is, like, sort of outspoken about her, she really cares how she looks, suzanne, even she hit a point in this episode where she was like, all right, this is weird.

Nikki: I'm done with that.

Nikki: So it says, like, how extreme it was in this episode.

Salina: I think that's right.

Nikki: Your general reactions were just intense.

Salina: I'm sorry.

Nikki: They were intense.

Nikki: I don't know what more to add to that, except I also will never cease to be amazed by the trouble Charlene gets the women into.

Salina: Oh, yeah.

Salina: Start with charlene.

Salina: Right?

Nikki: It all started with Charlene.

Salina: Everything's just good, and it's this amazing opportunity.

Salina: But it does go somewhere good, and we'll get there.

Nikki: It does.

Nikki: That's true.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: So, strays.

Salina: It's pretty clear to me that LBT.

Salina: Had, at least at the time, a very specific La.

Salina: Stereotype in mind with DeWitt.

Salina: This really skeezy guy, from the way he dresses to his interactions with everyone, he can't really remember any of the women or their names.

Salina: It's just very obvious that he's so surface level.

Salina: It just puts off this air of being too important.

Salina: That weird bro up moment that he tried to have with Anthony, where Anthony was like, okay, dude, and then calling everybody babe.

Salina: That was really an experience that you don't get anymore today.

Salina: And then, like, all the fake compliments where you're like, okay, pump the brakes too much.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: I have two stray reactions.

Nikki: One, Charlene just carries a picture of Julia and Suzanne around in her purse.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: Maybe that was a thing before cell.

Salina: Phones, carrying around pictures.

Salina: Yeah, definitely.

Nikki: Just so strange.

Salina: It's in my 80s things.

Salina: But it is very funny that it's like two work colleagues.

Salina: Like, I know they're friends, too, but still.

Nikki: I have a picture of you in my wallet.

Nikki: Guest stars.

Nikki: I wanted to mention who DeWitt and Estelle are because they're both people.

Nikki: That they're both people should be familiar to us.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: Let me finish my sentence, Salina.

Nikki: They are both people.

Nikki: So she's right.

Nikki: De Witt was played by Ian Patrick Williams.

Nikki: I don't recognize him from anywhere, but he has a really long filmography.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: He shows up in places like Perfect Strangers, which was a late 80s sitcom.

Nikki: Major, dad.

Nikki: The Fresh Prince.

Nikki: Gilmore Girls.

Nikki: I don't recognize the character that he plays, but he's just in it.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: Also, fun fact, this wasn't his first Designing Women appearance.

Nikki: He was in Grand Slam thank you, ma'am.

Salina: As, like, a baseball player.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: Background character.

Nikki: It also won't be his last.

Nikki: He'll show up again.

Salina: Do you want to tell us or you want to wait?

Nikki: No, I don't want to tell you.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: Because I don't have it written down.

Nikki: I didn't want to preempt anything.

Nikki: I think it's season four.

Salina: Doesn't that show how he's able to blend?

Salina: I guess, because how many times have you and I watched Gilmore Girls?

Nikki: A piece.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: Also, it's a crossover with the show universes because Major dad features Delta Burke's husband.

Salina: Yes.

Salina: Gerald Mcgraneygoth.

Nikki: I think there's a lot of crossover during this time because Estelle was played by Wendy Joe Sperber.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: She looked very familiar to me.

Nikki: She appeared in I Want to Hold Your Hand and Greece in the 70s, as well as a movie called Corvette Summer with, of all people, Annie Potts.

Salina: Yeah, that was one of Annie Potts first movies, I think.

Nikki: But I recognized her immediately as Marty McFly's sister in Back to the Future from the 80s.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: She was also in a ton of TV shows through the early 2000s, but unfortunately, she died of breast cancer in 2005.

Salina: Oh, wow.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: Well, obviously I didn't know that because I didn't know all those other filmography things.

Nikki: She showed up in a lot of places.

Nikki: I feel like I wish I had written it all down.

Nikki: I think she was in that show the show about dinosaurs where they're actually dinosaurs.

Nikki: Yes.

Nikki: I think she played a voice in that show.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: If my memory is serving me correctly, I don't have that one written down, but I think she might.

Nikki: Anyway, those are my strays.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: I only have one other.

Salina: Really?

Salina: Well, actually, I had two.

Salina: I was not going to say this one because I forgot to take a picture of it, but I'm just curious if you noticed the incredibly large sleeves on one of Anthony's sweaters.

Salina: I mean, it was like the bottom of bell bottoms, but it was like a knit sweater on a sweater.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: So I think it may have even been cuffed really closely on his wrist, but they were just the widest bottom.

Nikki: I wish you had taken a picture.

Salina: No.

Salina: I kept meaning to go back and do it, but time is time a thief.

Salina: So that was one thing that really caught my attention.

Salina: And then Julia notes, like, her sister that she does not perspire.

Salina: And that just really caught my attention.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: I'm like, It's okay to sweat.

Nikki: I know you have a friend that doesn't sweat, but I don't believe it.

Salina: Really doesn't.

Salina: And it's not like she really cares about sweating.

Salina: She just doesn't.

Nikki: She just doesn't sweat.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: So I don't know.

Salina: You want to talk about some things that we liked about the episode?

Salina: Yes.

Nikki: I, self admittedly, tend to be a little hard on Julia, but I really, really love when we see this tiny glimmer of human in her.

Nikki: She's always sort of up on a pedestal, and every now and then she becomes a human.

Nikki: So she was dead set on this whole thing.

Nikki: She was up on her high horse about like, this is stupid.

Nikki: I'm not doing this.

Nikki: And then De Witt compared her to legendary Hollywood women.

Nikki: Right.

Nikki: And suddenly she was like, all right.

Salina: Let'S go ahead and do this.

Nikki: Right?

Salina: That's funny.

Salina: Yeah, let's just do this.

Nikki: And I'd love that.

Nikki: I love that glimmer of human in her.

Salina: Yeah, because you don't really there is sort of this odd thing because I was, like, rewatching some of these episodes to prepare and not that she is not a gorgeous woman, because she is, but they definitely have her set apart as this character will.

Salina: She'll walk in any room and suddenly every man is like, you know?

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: And so it feels like she wouldn't be someone who would fall for those compliments, and yet she did.

Nikki: So I really liked that a lot.

Salina: Agreed.

Salina: I like that we solely focused on the photo shoot instead of distracting with a heavy B plot.

Nikki: That's a good point.

Nikki: Yeah, that was the main focus.

Salina: I think that kind of feeds into what you were saying.

Salina: You continue to be amazed by how much she can make happen just in this one space.

Salina: So it's like she's really good at creating a world in these realistic, tight spaces.

Salina: As you know, we don't get to go a lot of places in Sugar Bakers or in Designing Women.

Nikki: And we're definitely the first people to call out when there is, like, a tiny bit of a plot stretch where we're just like, oh, my God.

Nikki: We're really just supposed to believe this.

Nikki: But this one truly was believable.

Nikki: And it kind of reminds me of another thing that I really loved about this episode, was it's not a B plot, necessarily.

Nikki: It's sort of like a subhead to the main plot, but it's this concept of trying to get the photos back, and that the guest character, Estelle, or the guest actor, Estelle, helps them sort of get them back.

Nikki: And that whole little bit of the plot women.

Nikki: Helping women.

Nikki: And that whole scene was really well done.

Nikki: And it felt separate from that whole bit with the photographer being there.

Nikki: Although, again, it was still all in the same place.

Nikki: So I liked that too.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: And I like that we involved all of the characters.

Nikki: Yes.

Salina: I don't mind plots that are focused on one or two people, but I think when you can just, well, use all of the cast because they are so charismatic and just so good at playing these characters, it's just better.

Salina: It makes for a better episode.

Nikki: Agreed.

Salina: The secret life of Anthony and Suzanne.

Salina: Forgot about that.

Salina: Was a high point for me.

Salina: So in this off camera misadventure, anthony apparently had to go over to Suzanne's and help wax her legs.

Nikki: Forever.

Nikki: Her best girlfriend.

Salina: I'm telling you, it would have made a really good webisode in the mid 2000s.

Nikki: True.

Salina: I would have liked a little more time with Charlene's scene, where I guess it was like her turn for the photo shoot or whatever.

Salina: But on the whole, I liked that the photo shoot for each of the characters really played to their strengths.

Salina: So it seemed to just sort of pick up on these things that are essential to who each one of them are.

Salina: And then my last one is that I'll get more into it when we go into the Southern reference section.

Salina: But the tribute to real women in Atlanta in 1989 was, I think, the best part of the episode for me.

Salina: It made me cry.

Salina: I thought that was really singular, because it's one thing to make Atlanta your backdrop, but it was a really classy touch to showcase that there are actually real people here, and they're not all actors, and they're not necessarily models, and they come from all different types of backgrounds, and they do all kinds of different things.

Salina: I think that was really something.

Salina: It also showed the skyline, the Atlanta skyline at the end.

Salina: And, oh, boy, things have really changed.

Salina: And then I cried again.

Salina: Just the passage of time.

Nikki: That's rough, man.

Nikki: I did reverse Google image search, all of those pictures of the real women at the end, and I didn't get any results.

Nikki: So I'm not confident they're real, real women.

Salina: But I don't know, because these are pictures from the 80s, so it's not like it was a real story.

Salina: So I've thought a lot about this is an offline conversation that we have, but I've thought a lot about that because at first I was really bummed, and then I was like, do you know how many things I can't find from this era?

Salina: Because there just isn't the ability to track them back.

Salina: Speaking of things that we didn't like, not being able to find things, what stood out for you?

Nikki: I don't have anything.

Nikki: I don't have anything I didn't like in this episode.

Salina: I didn't have anything.

Salina: But I realized that one of my general reactions was a dislike.

Salina: And that's that.

Salina: It's interesting to me that in the same episode that is finger wagging at what we do to women, that we were also maybe food shaming Suzanne.

Salina: There's a runner where Anthony accuses her of stealing his cheesecake and then later there's this whole little thing about how she doesn't enjoy cheesecake people, but she enjoys eating cheesecake and I don't know.

Salina: I'm sure we'll continue to talk about this and we check in on this from time to time, but it's difficult to find these parts funny knowing what's happening to Delta Burke in real life and what the tabloids and stuff are pulling her through.

Salina: And just like I'm just going to say that if I was writing for that character and seeing them going through things in the media, I don't think I would drop in a line like that.

Salina: So it's just interesting to me is all.

Nikki: It's hard because I don't want to keep going back to the play.

Nikki: But also a runner in the play is that Suzanne's always eating junk food.

Nikki: Like anytime moments get stressful or she's trying to avoid confrontation or just like, she walks into a room and eats and it's like I think it was meant to be built into her character and unfortunately, stuff happened.

Nikki: It took a life of its own.

Nikki: So I hear what you're saying.

Nikki: I think there could have been a more conscious choice, at least the shamy stuff.

Nikki: Like, it would have been fine for her to continue to enjoy food, but maybe the shamy stuff.

Nikki: But that's hard for me to disentangle.

Salina: Yeah, I think that's exactly the point.

Salina: Otherwise, I didn't have any dislikes either.

Salina: That was just one of those things where I was like, you ready to rate this sucker?

Nikki: Yes.

Nikki: My rating scale is sequined workwear.

Salina: I like it.

Nikki: I give it a four out of a five.

Nikki: It was a serious topic, but it felt easy to watch.

Nikki: It felt enjoyable.

Nikki: I laughed a few times.

Nikki: I think I took a point off because it's probably not one that if it just came on, that I'd be like, OOH, good, this episode is on.

Nikki: It's not like, that great, but I liked it.

Salina: Good.

Salina: What about you?

Salina: Mine was five out of five NIM FETs named Chardonnay, which was part of Mary Joe's Runner at the beginning, where she was talking about the ridiculousness of the different magazine spreads where women who are supposedly in the workplace are like, also, they don't have a top on, but they're like cooking.

Salina: That kind of thing.

Salina: Right.

Salina: So I just loved it.

Salina: How women have been treated in these different areas, whether it be the workplace or by the media is important.

Salina: And so I think the topic is just one that really especially needed to get out there at the time.

Salina: I think the argument is still there for it to be important today.

Salina: But it's also, again, another great example of what comedy can do.

Salina: It can take something that could be reported in another way, and it just shows us in a few sequences without it having to be, I don't know, just a bummer to get through.

Nikki: Right.

Salina: It just keeps it light, and that's success in my book.

Salina: Who won the episode and who buttered our biscuits?

Nikki: Estelle for the win.

Nikki: She saved the day, I think.

Salina: That's right.

Salina: Same.

Salina: This is great.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: She helped Sugar Bakers get rid of the photos, or she's going to I guess we can say by the end, she has we see the photos and.

Nikki: Throughout just the whole episode, she just was very clear.

Nikki: She was there for a paycheck.

Nikki: She was not co signing onto this whole thing.

Nikki: She thought this was all beneath her.

Nikki: But, man, she needed that rent money.

Salina: Yeah, well and over the course of the episode, we see her finally realize that it's time to move on from De Witt.

Salina: Not just like, stick around.

Salina: I will tell you that the development of this one was a little difficult because at first, you just kind of think that she's, like, just an annoyed person.

Salina: I didn't understand what they were really trying to do with her character until she finally opened up.

Salina: And maybe that was all in the sauce.

Salina: That's what LBT Wanted to do.

Nikki: I think that was the idea.

Salina: It's also interesting because they had that whole, like, she had that line that was interesting where she says, I didn't even know I like Southern women.

Salina: And I was like, is that the way?

Salina: LBT Feels about other people's perception of Southern women?

Salina: Or, I was just curious about that.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: Who lost the episode?

Salina: Who served us lumpy gravy.

Nikki: I mean, De Witt, obviously, but also kind of charlene for getting them into the mess.

Nikki: It all starts with Charlene.

Salina: Charlene?

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: He's just the worst.

Salina: Just a big old phony gosh.

Salina: There's just nothing it just has to be in my pantheon of least desirable traits in a human being is, like, being that phony.

Salina: It's so ridiculous.

Salina: And I just think also it's an argument that he lost the episode because it turns out to be a bad time for him.

Nikki: What do you mean?

Salina: Like, he has a bad episode by the end, he lost an entire day's work.

Salina: He's got nothing to show for it.

Salina: So I think there is a little justice in the world.

Nikki: He deserved it.

Salina: Designing Women.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Very 80s things.

Nikki: The first thing I have is the I Love Lucy Club, where they send cassette tapes of the show, but sort of a corollary to that.

Nikki: I have it later.

Nikki: It's the I Love Lucy theme song, which, obviously is not an 80s thing, but just like a thing of another time.

Nikki: It's playing during the credits, but Lucille Ball died on April 26, 1989, and this show aired, like, May 1 or whatever.

Nikki: So I think that that little bit of the plot where they talk about the cassette tapes was a nod to her.

Nikki: I think it also means the reason that got me thinking about this is because they also have a picture of her at the very end.

Nikki: And I thought, I mean, I guess they mentioned her in the episode, but they don't do pictures of every celebrity they mentioned.

Nikki: So I started thinking about it.

Nikki: I was like, when did Lucy you'll ball die?

Nikki: Found out?

Nikki: It was just before this episode aired.

Nikki: So that also means that the show had to have been written and shot super close to air date, which is just like unfathomable to me because of the way we have to stagger our recording.

Nikki: It's just so weird to me that they do it so closely.

Nikki: But I was super confused when they had different theme song and then at the end they were playing the I Love Lucy theme song and then they had a picture of her and I was like, what is happening here?

Nikki: That's what was happening.

Salina: Oh, smart.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: Yeah, that's a really good catch.

Salina: Also, it's probably worth mentioning that Lucille Ball was a tremendous business person.

Salina: So in an episode where we're talking.

Nikki: About women in business, we also had a Queen Elizabeth reference, may she rest in peace.

Nikki: We had a string of female Hollywood legends when De Witt was talking to Julia.

Nikki: Catherine Hepburn, Anne Bancroft, Lena Horn.

Nikki: Sometimes I don't know where else to put these things.

Nikki: So I put them in 80s things.

Salina: Good.

Salina: We put them in two different categories.

Salina: Don't worry, guys, we'll cover them twice.

Nikki: And then there was a string of famous business people from the some of whom we've heard before donald Trump, Lee Ayakoka and Margaret Thatcher.

Nikki: Business people, influential people.

Salina: Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and skip down to where I have this because I think that actually what it really is, is we get a string of all of these references, I think, except for maybe a handful.

Salina: First of all, we get like 35 people references.

Salina: It's just a huge amount of people, like specific people to be mentioned over the course of one episode.

Salina: Again, one of those things that puts me in the mind of Gilmore Girls because Amy Sherman palladino also loved to drop in references to old Hollywood and like a ton all over the course of one episode as well.

Salina: But I think talking about Donald Trump and Leah Coca is really a specific it really hearkens back to the episode because Julia's whole point and her well deserved rant is that no one would ever dare ask these two business titans of the lower themselves to posing sexually for some article.

Salina: They're all too serious for that.

Salina: And so out of all the references, I felt like those were two that really rose to the top for me because I think that is such an interesting point that they're making up on the whole yes, they may use men sexually for some things, but it's like models they don't use like businessmen.

Salina: I don't even like that term, but they don't use businessmen in that regard.

Salina: So I thought that was interesting.

Salina: But going back to 80s things, I think just in general, a magazine spread, I know magazines still exist, but this just feels like very of the times and it would have been such a big deal, whereas today people don't really buy magazines as much.

Salina: You have mentioned Charlene getting out her pictures that she had of Suzanne and Julia.

Salina: It's just really that whole concept of keeping physical pictures on your person I think is so entrenched in that time period.

Salina: Suzanne coming through the door in that gown that she wore, the black gown reminded me of a Bob Mackey Barbie, which also put me in the mind of the like the little Holiday Barbie dolls and then calling lingerie a teddy, to me, just sort of stuck out as more of an 80s reference.

Salina: Southern things.

Nikki: Mary Max Tea Room is a restaurant here in Atlanta.

Nikki: That was one of Julia's references at the end about the real women of Atlanta that they are, I don't know, playing bridge at Mary Max Tea Room or something.

Nikki: I don't have a lot to describe here about it, except it's just like Southern food.

Nikki: It's very home style.

Nikki: It's a restaurant should say that.

Nikki: And it wasn't always Mary Max Tea Room, and I wish I had written down the name of what it was before, but it was actually established in the like forty s and fifty s under a different name.

Salina: 45.

Salina: There you go.

Salina: Not only is it a real place, it was started in 1945 by Mary McKenzie, and it was purposefully called a tea room because it was quite difficult for a woman to open a restaurant at the time.

Salina: There were actually 16 other tea rooms open during this era, and it's the last one that remains.

Salina: So maybe some part of the name was different, but it's always been known as a tea room, which I thought was really interesting and I didn't realize that there was like, sexism built into it, which I thought was really interesting.

Salina: Makes sense, doesn't it, though?

Salina: We also get a shot of the lady in front of the Capitol Building that they talk about.

Salina: I think her name was Ruby.

Salina: This is also someone we couldn't verify, but that is referring to the Atlanta Capitol Building where the branches of state government are located.

Salina: I think what's more interesting is just this is probably one of the older buildings in all of Atlanta.

Salina: It was completed on July 4, 1889 for just under a million dollars, and it is largely made of Georgia materials.

Salina: We've also talked extensively about the Piedmont Driving Club, which gets another mention because of the debutants.

Salina: I didn't want to go back through Piemont driving club.

Salina: You've done such a nice job, like, covering the ins and outs of that.

Salina: But unsurprisingly, I was able to confirm in multiple places that this was the crim de la creme spot for debutants.

Salina: This in, like, maybe two other places, especially in the 60s.

Salina: So I'm not surprised that it made LBT's list there at the end.

Salina: The larger article that the ladies are posing for is a salute to the New South.

Salina: And I just wanted to say this post Civil War era and the New South in general is mentioned with some frequency over the course of the show.

Salina: And, in fact, in the play, since that's also fresh on our minds, like, Julia again mentions the New South.

Salina: How about references we need to talk about?

Nikki: I talked about the I Love Lucy connection.

Nikki: That was my big one.

Salina: That was a good get.

Nikki: That was impressive.

Salina: Thank you.

Salina: Mary Joe says at some point, except, like, someone is wearing nothing except knee socks and a little red tam.

Salina: And I was like, what's?

Salina: A tam?

Salina: So this is some kind of little hat.

Salina: So if someone's wearing nothing but knee socks and a little hat, I think that definitely draws the picture that Mary Joe was looking to say about whatever article she was reading with a woman being covered.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: I think it's like a schoolgirl.

Nikki: I'm pulling up the tam.

Nikki: It looks like a little bit beret ish.

Salina: I think that's right.

Nikki: And it's kind of like a schoolgirl vibe, I think.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Well, ever enduring and popular is it not true.

Salina: We also get this.

Salina: Suzanne says the photographer better not turn out to be any kind of a cheesecake.

Salina: I didn't know what that meant.

Salina: So did you know what that meant?

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: I mean, I just assumed, like, cheeseball.

Salina: Me too.

Salina: That's not it.

Salina: So when I looked it up, this is a term that's fallen out of use, but it refers to images of appealing, scantily clad women.

Salina: Whereas we may have heard of things like a beefcake, it's referring to men.

Salina: So cheesecake is that kind of idea.

Nikki: But for a woman.

Nikki: Wait, I'm confused.

Nikki: So does that mean Suzanne was on to him as being, like, a ski?

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: I guess so.

Salina: And I think if we had known that, that would have been interesting to have had that frame of reference in mind.

Salina: But I totally thought cheeseball, especially when we meet him, and he is quite cheesy.

Salina: Really interesting there.

Salina: I only have one other one, which was Margaret Thatcher, which in an episode where we're talking kind of about the strength of women.

Salina: Just important to say that she was the first female prime minister of the U.

Salina: K.

Salina: And the longest serving of the and the longest serving prime minister of the 20th century.

Salina: She evokes a lot of strong opinions, but there is no doubt that she is a member of the Breaking Through That Glass Ceiling club.

Salina: What about cut lines?

Nikki: I have three.

Nikki: So right after Charlene said de Witt was looking for representative attractive women, this line was cut right before Julia said she didn't want to reign on Charlene's parade.

Nikki: I mean, Tommy let it slip that De Witt's also photographing some of the other decorators over at the design center.

Nikki: So even if he did photograph us, it doesn't mean we'd even be in the magazine.

Nikki: I'm sharing that because I'm reading that as someone reading hesitation from Charlene and Mary Joe about this photo shoot.

Nikki: And so they use this concept of competition to motivate them a little bit to participate.

Nikki: So I just feel like it sets an early stage for this guy, this concept, this whole storyline.

Nikki: Mary Joe also had one more example of the types of women they tend to include in these sorts of features.

Nikki: So you mentioned the knee socks and the tam, but she also gave another example.

Nikki: It's not much to write home about, but just there was more there.

Nikki: And then there was a really big cut.

Nikki: You had mentioned how each of the women's subsections of the photo shoot really represented them.

Nikki: Charlene's actually, I think, was cut.

Nikki: He asks her to lower her zipper, lick her lips, but most importantly, that's when Estelle notices her I Love Lucy tapes and comments on how happy they make her.

Nikki: And that's sort of the beginning of this connection between the ladies and Estelle.

Salina: Yeah, those are significant.

Nikki: They're pretty big cuts.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: So next episode, episode 20, stand and fight.

Nikki: We'd love everyone to follow along with us and engage Instagram and Facebook at sweettv.

Nikki: Email

Nikki: Our website is www dot sweettv.

Nikki: There are also several ways to support the show.

Nikki: You can tell your friends and family about us rate and or review the podcast wherever you listen.

Nikki: And we have some additional ways on our website from the Support US page where you can support the show and hang tight for Extra Sugar.

Nikki: What do we have this week?

Salina: Well, this week, based on the episode, we're going to talk about women owned business.

Salina: And then we're going to hear some sage advice from a special guest.

Salina: So you know what that means.

Nikki: What does it mean, Salina?

Salina: It means we'll see you around the bend.

Salina: By.

Salina: Welcome to this week's edition of Extra Sugar.

Salina: In honor of this week's Designing Women episode, I thought we could chat a little bit about women owned businesses.

Salina: Feels like a good time to do that.

Salina: So we'll start by checking in on the numbers, and then we're going to hear from a special guest.

Nikki: I love special guests.

Salina: It's going to be my mom.

Salina: Yay.

Nikki: This is her favorite episode of all time.

Salina: It's her favorite Designing Women episode.

Salina: So Nikki and I had a conversation a long time ago, like, even towards the start of the show, places where we might be able to incorporate our moms.

Salina: But when I told my mom that we were even having that conversation.

Salina: She just went on and on about this episode and how if there's something there, that's the place.

Salina: And I was like, okay, then I didn't know what to do.

Salina: But Nikki came up with a good idea, so we're going with good job, Nikki.

Salina: So what we're going to do is my mom sent us some business tips in advance.

Salina: Nikki and I are going to play those and then we're going to react to them.

Salina: And then we'll react to them in real time.

Salina: And we'll just tell my mom whether she's right or wrong.

Salina: Just kidding, mom.

Salina: And then finally, after we get through that, what I'd like to do is highlight a few women owned businesses right here in Atlanta.

Nikki: Okay?

Salina: So as always, Nikki, you are the voice of the audience.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: The voice of God.

Salina: Wait, hold on.

Nikki: Anyway, call me the voice of reason.

Salina: Oh, that's it.

Salina: I got confused.

Salina: But anyway, so pop in anytime and be like, sweetie, you're not making any sense right in the middle of a sentence.

Nikki: Just like that.

Salina: Be the best place.

Nikki: Yes, got it.

Salina: So let's start with that Pulse Tech I was talking about.

Salina: According to the US Census Bureau, about one in five employer businesses were owned by women.

Salina: That's 1.2 million or 20.9% in 2019.

Salina: So we keep getting a lot of 2019 stats.

Salina: I think the pandemic messed up a lot different.

Salina: So even when I went and tried to get newer data, it was really so focused on the pandemic that it didn't seem that helpful.

Salina: So I just want to be clear, these statistics are a little bit older, but these businesses have also previously reported about 1.8 trillion in annual revenue and they employ in the neighborhood of 11 million workers.

Salina: And I say that because I couldn't find those same stats for 2019.

Salina: Those are actually 2018 stats.

Salina: I'm sorry, guys.

Salina: Jimmy, best if you can't tell.

Salina: It bothers me, but I can't find the latest data.

Salina: But compared to men, women led startups tend to be in healthcare and social assistance or accommodation and food service.

Salina: And the decision making behind the scenes is different.

Salina: So with women, it's more focused on things like flexible hours and then also about balancing work and family obligations.

Salina: These are things that they report as important.

Salina: So it doesn't seem very shocking for the reason that we know that women are both domestic goddesses still and bringing.

Nikki: Home the paychecks patriarchy.

Salina: They're doing all the things.

Salina: Any guess on which state has the highest proportion of female owned businesses?

Salina: This is as of 2018, florida.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: Do you want me to just tell you?

Nikki: Massachusetts.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: Vermont.

Nikki: Oregon?

Salina: No.

Nikki: Washington.

Nikki: California?

Salina: Are we just seeing how can you know now?

Nikki: And I'm done Hawaii.

Salina: So I don't know.

Salina: I don't have anything more than close.

Salina: Georgia had the 8th most female business owners in the country.

Salina: I thought that was interesting.

Salina: Go US.

Salina: As of 2018.

Salina: So when there's certainly excuse me.

Salina: While there's certainly been progress, there are significant barriers for women.

Salina: I think that's an important thing to mention.

Salina: But I read that limited funding, gender biases, and limited government support factor in.

Salina: And we'll link to a Forbes article that breaks all of this down.

Salina: I love that I read it.

Salina: I've never experienced it.

Salina: I've only read it.

Salina: So now let's move on to a little section that I'm going to call let's Ask Sabrina.

Salina: Now that we have some framing for what's happening with women owned businesses, let's also hear from someone who's owned one or two.

Salina: But before we hear from my mom and hear her advice, specifically, I'd like to tell you a little bit about her because otherwise she might be a complete stranger to you.

Salina: And then also, what gives her the right to have these opinions.

Salina: So, first and foremost, I would describe my mother as an artist and a creator.

Salina: She is truly one of a kind.

Salina: I've met a lot of talented people in my life, and yet still, she is probably the most talented person I've ever met.

Salina: She can sing, she can dance, and she can act.

Salina: She's funny.

Salina: Like, really funny.

Salina: Like, not just kind of funny, but she's also whip smart.

Salina: And we may not always see eye to eye, but she has made me who I am and definitely when it comes to both my work ethic and my drive.

Salina: So her career experience, I would describe is as wide and varied as her talents.

Salina: So she's been in marketing and event planning.

Salina: She's done general contracting work, sole real estate and insurance.

Salina: She's been a mail carrier, a pharmaceutical tech, and she's held customer service jobs of every stripe for the last 15 years or so.

Salina: She's been a licensed neuromuscular therapist.

Salina: I would describe her as a healer.

Salina: She knows a lot about the human body, and when it messes up, she actually knows how to fix it.

Salina: It's been helpful for me, I will say that.

Salina: Much more recently, she's been working to launch her own line of healthy snacks.

Salina: So the woman has always done things on her own terms.

Salina: She's made her own rules.

Salina: Like, imagining my mom at a desk is like me trying to imagine, like, a ferret or any animal just suddenly, like, in people's clothing for no reason.

Salina: It just doesn't necessarily make any sense.

Salina: It's just not going to happen.

Salina: I think she finds that kind of environment stifling and the office politics a little mind numbing, so I don't know where that's coming from.

Salina: How strange.

Salina: So instead, she's often been her own boss in finding ways to harness more creative pursuits.

Salina: With that in mind, shall we get down to it?

Nikki: Let's do it.

Salina: Okay, number one.

Nikki: Oh, wait, can I add, though, you're going to do a really long list, which is too long for the main feed, right?

Salina: Yes.

Nikki: So you're going to give a little extra for the Patreons this week.

Salina: I am.

Salina: So we'll cover a couple well, we're going to cover about four, and that's going to be for everyone.

Salina: And then if you are a Patreon, you get all the best ones.

Salina: They're all good.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: All right.

Speaker C: Number one, be a business owner, because it is something that inspires you.

Speaker C: It truly takes a certain mindset to be an entrepreneur.

Nikki: I bet.

Nikki: I think it takes a certain mindset and also a certain confidence that you can do it.

Salina: Yes.

Salina: I think that you can't doubt yourself.

Nikki: There's no room for that.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: And that's why I work for someone else, because that's too much stress for me.

Nikki: It is.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: I'm sure if I found something that I was passionate about, I'm sure I could do it.

Nikki: I'm not sure I want all the administrative, the overhead, this, that, and the other.

Salina: Sort of the minute I think about coordinating my own insurance, I'm out.

Salina: Oh, yeah.

Nikki: Coordinating and paying for yeah.

Nikki: You have to pay for that stuff.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: Thank you.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: That's a good point.

Salina: So good for her and good for all the other people who want to do it.

Salina: I have such a high level of admiration for people who strike out on their own like that.

Nikki: It's really impressive.

Nikki: I think that it is a very specific personality.

Nikki: So it's two things.

Nikki: Right?

Nikki: It's a specific personality to try it.

Nikki: It's also a very specific personality to succeed.

Nikki: And that's the part that scares me, is I get analysis paralysis.

Nikki: And so if the whole world is open to me and I can do whatever I want, I might never move forward because I'm not going to know where to even start.

Nikki: And I'm going to be like, this is really hard.

Nikki: And now I don't know where to go.

Salina: Well, and I think it takes a certain level of luck.

Salina: Oh, for sure.

Nikki: Right place, right time.

Nikki: A lot of times you hear that a lot with people who are really big business owners.

Nikki: They just happen to be the one business in town that didn't go under, and then they use that to their advantage or whatever.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: So, number one, it's a goodie, good tip.

Salina: Yeah.

Speaker C: Number two, what most people consider a failed attempt, I know for me is what I call a recalibration.

Speaker C: This allows for honing in an acceptance for a change in plans when an inspiration leads me in a more desired direction.

Nikki: On peloton, some of the instructors refer to that as failing forward.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: Capitalizing on you can use the word mistakes or just, like, on the things that didn't work, and you can use those to, like your mom said, recalibrate to see what wasn't working and figure out how to fix it.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: And it's great to think about that for business, but I don't think that's just for business.

Salina: I think that's really you can apply that to so.

Salina: Many facets of life, because I think if we're not at least somewhat learning from our mistakes or if we're not recalibrating or failing forward or whatever it is, then, well, Dang, we're just doing the same thing over and over again.

Salina: And that sounds like Groundhog Day, which sounds terrible.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: And I agree with you.

Nikki: I think that's something I sort of try to keep in mind, because for a lot of us, failure has been the enemy.

Nikki: Like, failure is the thing you're trying to avoid.

Nikki: There's a certain way you're supposed to live your life because that's the way that works.

Nikki: It's the path of least resistance.

Nikki: And so you do that because it makes other things easier, but then you've really limited yourself.

Nikki: You've really focused yourself on this one way of doing things at the risk of missing all the other potential ways you could do it.

Nikki: And so it might not work.

Nikki: Like, you try something as lame as trying a new route home from work.

Nikki: You try it, it didn't work.

Nikki: But what you learned is there's an ice cream shop there on the corner that you'd love to try on the weekend.

Nikki: You sort of have to experience new things and try them in order to find other things.

Nikki: So I agree with you.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: I said, well don't agree.

Nikki: I agree with you, Miss Serena.

Salina: Yes.

Salina: So I definitely agree with it.

Salina: And I see the merit in it.

Salina: I think seeing the merit in something and practicing it in your own life can be two different things for the very reason that trying to overcome one's perfectionistic tendencies, let's say, and for kind of what you were talking about, there is this idea that failure is this thing that we are sort of taught to avoid.

Salina: So trying to retrain your brain, to embrace that is something that can be helpful, I think is something that you really have to put your mind on.

Nikki: It's a real exercise.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: I don't think it's just going to happen naturally.

Nikki: Not for some people, maybe for others, yeah.

Salina: Good for them.

Nikki: Good for them.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: How about it?

Speaker C: Number three, have faith in your product, your services and your company.

Speaker C: This is about you and your path for the wonderful life that you are choosing to live.

Salina: Mom really had her guru hat on, I felt like.

Nikki: I do think this sort of, in a way, ties to the first one, which was like, to find something you feel really passionate about and kind of throw your weight behind it, I imagine.

Nikki: You cannot succeed if it's not something you believe in.

Nikki: Even this podcast, we couldn't show up week after week, day after day, if it wasn't something we felt we really believed in.

Salina: Yeah, I think I have to do that.

Salina: That's a conscious exercise that I make, whether really for anything I have going on.

Salina: If I can't find that good nugget in there, that makes sense for why I'm going to this thing or spending time with X people.

Salina: Or going to X workplace or whatever the case is, if I can't find the good in that and the reason why I'm showing up every day.

Salina: Oh, that's not good.

Salina: Yeah, that's not good.

Salina: That's dispassionate.

Salina: And yeah, I don't know how long that can last.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: Thanks, mom.

Salina: Number four and final one for our regular listeners for the main feed for you, Normies.

Salina: I'm kidding.

Speaker C: When you create from a place of joy, every aspect of its growth will be satisfying.

Speaker C: Truly obtaining your goal is greater when you enjoy the journey along the way.

Salina: All feed together.

Nikki: Yeah, for sure.

Nikki: And that last part, enjoying the journey, is that talking about a mental struggle?

Nikki: My life is a series of checklists, and I forget that I'm having fun along the way.

Nikki: Yeah, we opened this episode talking about our trip to Disney, and it was like this series of reservations and rides we needed to get to.

Nikki: And at a point, I finally looked at Kyle and I was like, we are supposed to be enjoying this.

Nikki: I don't want to do these checkboxes the whole way.

Nikki: And so I think that beyond business.

Nikki: And I know we're talking about business, but beyond business, the idea of enjoying the ride is challenging, but I think that it's easier when it's something you really feel passionate about and you really enjoy.

Nikki: Yeah, but we've talked about this with the podcast, too.

Nikki: It's also relevant here, how it becomes this series of tasks to accomplish.

Nikki: Like, sitting here thinking about editing this episode later is like, okay, that'll be a fun thing to do.

Salina: Just joy.

Nikki: And it's hard to remember to enjoy the journey, to get there.

Salina: Yeah, that's good.

Salina: I think taking a moment to stop and go through these is really important because I think we just need these reminders because it's not like my mom is giving this advice that you would get that's super specific to, like, well, first you get your business plan together.

Salina: Because I think if I would sum up all of this, first you got to get your mind right.

Salina: And that's the kind of advice that she's giving here.

Salina: And I think that is important for almost like Affirmation type stuff.

Salina: You're having a thought.

Nikki: Yes.

Nikki: The other thing that I'm hearing there and I don't want to put words into your mom's mouth, but the other thing I'm hearing there is achieving your goals.

Nikki: And I think sometimes you hit milestones.

Nikki: And I'm purely speaking from the experience of professional milestones in my own life, or like podcast related milestones, you forget to stop for a second and catch your breath and look around.

Nikki: Like, if you envision, it like climbing a mountain and you've got this goal and you finally get to the top.

Nikki: Sometimes you forget to just sit down on a rock and look around and say, like, where did I come from, what did I have to overcome to get here?

Nikki: How much have I grown to do this and then look forward to the next thing?

Salina: Reflection.

Nikki: We forget that part.

Nikki: I do.

Nikki: And I feel like I see it as a common theme.

Nikki: We just don't stop for a second and say like, holy crap, we just did this amazing thing.

Nikki: And I think it's this culture of drive and movement and keep going and keep going and better and faster and more and more.

Nikki: And you forget to stop and say, like, oh my gosh, Salina, we hit 2500.

Nikki: Listens.

Nikki: Or we hit 100 Instagram followers.

Nikki: We forget to do that sometimes.

Nikki: That stinks.

Nikki: Yeah, it robs you of your joy.

Salina: Well, we can't be robbed.

Salina: The last thing that I want to cover today were some Atlanta specific businesses that are woman owned.

Salina: So let's do that with unexpected Atlanta starting off the grouping.

Salina: This is founded by Akela McConnell in 2015.

Salina: They offer the number one Atlanta walking tour, and their team is filled with Atlanta natives who are also storytellers and food lovers.

Salina: So there's a Food tour, but there's also an MLK Junior tour.

Salina: So they're incorporating the city's important civil rights history as well, which I just think is really interesting.

Salina: I'm really interested in looking into this one.

Salina: I had not heard of it.

Salina: I found it in a larger list of Atlanta businesses and I want to go check that out.

Salina: So I don't usually think about doing tours in our own backyard, but I don't know, I thought it could be interesting.

Salina: Another one is for keeps.

Salina: Books.

Salina: This is a bookstore that opened in 2018 by Rosa Duffy, and this is in Sweet Auburn, which is a historically black neighborhood in Atlanta.

Salina: According to a GQ article I ran across, she couldn't always get her hands on the book she wanted the most.

Salina: For Keeps was born from that failure of the market.

Salina: It's a space designed to put readers in conversation with black writers and with ideas they'd never find in the narrow African American sections of other stores.

Nikki: Oh, cool.

Salina: So there are books for purchase.

Salina: But what I also found really interesting is that she showcases rare books that are part of her own personal collection.

Salina: So it does seem very much that they really want to start a conversation here.

Salina: So it is more about than just selling books, which I think is nice and immersive.

Salina: And then there's the Village retail.

Salina: I've also heard it called the Village Market, but it was started by Lakeisha Helman in 2016.

Salina: From what I've read at the time, she started bringing together local black businesses and black brands under the banner of the Village Market.

Salina: And then during the pandemic, she opened a brick and mortar location in Pont City Market.

Salina: So I've been there, I just didn't know that this was the background of the store.

Salina: It's really cute.

Salina: And they're there in Pont City Market but they're also online, and you can find apparel, home goods, and items such as clothes, furniture, art and wellness and beauty products.

Salina: I think it's important to say that this isn't just about selling stuff.

Salina: Her mission is greater than that.

Salina: I read in an AJC article featured on their website that the goal is also to empower black entrepreneurs through education, community engagement, and efforts to grow existing black businesses by exposing them to other black businesses.

Salina: And then I feel like finally we would be remiss to not mention Rushing Trading Company here in our own neck of the woods.

Salina: We've talked about them a few times now, but it's cool.

Salina: It's ran by a mom daughter duo.

Salina: How can I not mention this in a podcast where we're literally listening to tips from my own mother?

Salina: So I also believe that Cloudland Coffee that they use exclusively is owned by a woman, I want to say in John's Creek.

Salina: So we'll link to these various businesses and some longer lists for you to explore, and I will go explore my lisp.

Salina: I think we probably have a more conscious consumer base than ever before.

Salina: That was kind of one of the things I was thinking about when I was pulling together this list, when I was looking at doing this extra Sugar.

Salina: People want to know who made their product.

Salina: They want to know who's selling it to them.

Salina: They want to know where that money is going to on the back end.

Salina: And I think that's because we're learning in real time why that matters, maybe more so than ever.

Salina: I think there used to be a veil.

Salina: We didn't really know we were just, like, buying stuff.

Salina: So women leading one in five of those employer businesses, that's nice.

Salina: I think that's a great start.

Salina: But I also think it could be better.

Salina: And one way we can contribute to those numbers is by contributing to these businesses.

Salina: So let's do what society has told us we're so good at for so long.

Salina: Let's go shopping.

Salina: But let's also build, let's support, and let's achieve, because I think we're pretty good at that, too.

Salina: And that's this week's extra sugar.


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