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Designing Women S3 E20 - We're Mad As Hell and We're Not Going to Take It Anymore

Updated: Jun 9, 2023

First up: a trigger warning. This episode is about assault and, in turn, self-defense. If that’s triggering for you in any way, press “pause” and come back to us next week. We’ll be here for you.

Mary Jo’s mugging sends all the ladies to a self defense class. They learn how to protect themselves and we learn, once again, that being a woman is…complicated.

Then we’re going to lighten things up - topically anyway - with a “Southern Spotlight” on New Orleans cuisine thanks to several mentions during the episode. It’s an all-new “Nikki’s Nibbles” y’all!

Stick around for this week’s “Extra Sugar” where we’ll discuss why this plot hasn’t aged a day AND cover some important safety tips.

Reads for you:

Come on, let’s get into it!



Salina: Hey, Nikki.

Nikki: Hey, Salina.

Salina: And hello, everyone, and welcome to Sweet Tea and TV.

Salina: Hey, y'all.

Salina: So something occurred to me about what date it's going to be when this episode premieres.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: It's going to air on it's going to be on Halloween.

Nikki: Christmas?

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Well, I don't know.

Salina: Some of my Christmases have felt like that.

Salina: Who's in doubt?

Salina: But in honor of that being the case, which I got really excited about, which is probably telling on a few different levels, but that's okay, I thought that we could talk a little bit about it.

Nikki: Sure.

Salina: So right out the gate, my first question is, what are them babies going to be this year?

Nikki: Landon is going to be a dinosaur.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: And Carolina is going to be a unicorn witch.

Salina: Now, is this actually a costume or it's not a creation of her own?

Salina: There is a unicorn witch.

Nikki: So I had to run an errand one night, and I had both kids with me.

Nikki: And my general rule is I try not to go to the store with the children.

Nikki: I especially try not to take the children.

Nikki: Plus, somewhere like Walmart, there's just too much distraction, too many potential traps, whatever.

Nikki: But I had to run an errand.

Nikki: I had to do this thing.

Nikki: It was actually for the podcast for our hocus pocus reel.

Nikki: So I had to take them with me, and we had to go to the Halloween section.

Nikki: So fun fact about my son is that he is a costume fiend.

Nikki: He has like, four or five Spiderman costumes.

Nikki: He has several superhero costumes.

Nikki: He pretty much lives in a costume at our house.

Nikki: And it started during the pandemic, and it just kept going.

Nikki: And he just loves a costume.

Nikki: So we went to the Halloween section, and he found a dinosaur costume he really wanted, but it wasn't his size, and that's what he really wanted to wear for Halloween.

Nikki: So I said, I'll see if I can order you one online, and then you'll have your Halloween costume.

Nikki: And I said, Carolina, what do you want to do?

Nikki: And she goes, I have a lot of costumes.

Nikki: Maybe I'll just wear one I have, and you can save your money.

Nikki: What a sweet kid, right?

Salina: Practical.

Salina: What a sweet kid.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: So then I had to take her to Walmart with me a couple of weeks later, and she wanted to just look at the costumes.

Nikki: So we walked through.

Salina: Oh, she was buttering you up.

Nikki: And she was I think she was trying to make herself look better in front of her brother.

Nikki: But she says that stuff a lot, like, I'm going to help you save money, mommy.

Salina: Well played.

Nikki: But I think time just got to her, and she was like, well, this is almost exactly how she said it.

Nikki: I mean, it doesn't hurt to look at the costumes, just see what they have.

Salina: It doesn't hurt to try one on.

Nikki: It doesn't hurt to put one in a bag and take it home.

Salina: Yeah, as long as you pay for it first.

Nikki: Well, sure.

Nikki: So she said she wanted to be a unicorn, but she was so torn because do I be a unicorn or do I be a witch?

Nikki: What do I do?

Salina: What do I do?

Nikki: What do I do?

Nikki: I kid you not.

Nikki: We are looking through the costumes, and there's one called Unicorn Witch.

Nikki: And let me tell you the joy I took in holding it up and saying, this one's a unicorn witch.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: It had, like a rainbow horn on the hat.

Nikki: And the dress is black, but it has, like, rainbow colors on it.

Nikki: So that's what she's going to be.

Salina: I love it.

Salina: Well, I can't wait to see pictures.

Nikki: Yeah, she was really upset because we got home and she found out not really upset, but just sort of like bummed it didn't come with a broom.

Nikki: And in the picture, they show a girl holding a broom and can't get.

Salina: Attached to the accessories in those pictures.

Nikki: What I'm trying to teach her so we're trying to figure out what to do about a broom, but she has this little melissa and Doug, they do this cleaning set that has, like, this little toy broom with it.

Nikki: And it doesn't look at all like a witch's broom.

Nikki: It looks like just a regular household broom.

Nikki: But she's been carrying that around as her broom.

Nikki: It's very hocus pocus of her.

Salina: I love it.

Salina: Yeah, lean in.

Salina: That's what I say.

Nikki: What are you wearing for Halloween?

Salina: Oh, I'm not you're just going to.

Nikki: Be naked on Halloween, giving out candy naked?

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Well, I got to go howl at the moon.

Salina: No, I don't like to think about me giving out candy.

Nikki: You said you're not wearing anything.

Salina: I mean, I'm not wearing a costume.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: So I guess what I will be doing, probably my big plan this year is we're having instead of a girls night, we're having a ghouls night.

Salina: And so I got pretty excited, and a friend of mine and I went and just probably bought a few too many decorations to decorate for this party.

Salina: And so I'll be going down to my friend's house and helping set up and everything.

Salina: And we're going to make some Halloween themed foods and really just spend time with each other.

Salina: And we were going to dress up in costumes.

Salina: We were, but it's just like our girlfriends and I was like, what if we just did Halloween pajamas?

Salina: And so everyone is getting Halloween themed pajamas.

Nikki: Oh, that's cute.

Salina: So I have a couple of things, but I found some pants that say hocus pocus on the side.

Salina: And then I've got a sweatshirt that says hocus pocus.

Salina: So I'll probably wear that.

Salina: But I also have another one that has you know how you see at Christmas time now the elves with the long beards, and you can't see their eyes.

Salina: Like, you just see their noses down.

Salina: They have, like, a Halloween version of that.

Salina: They're like Halloween elves, and they were just on the pocket of, like, what I call fancy pajamas because they button up in the front.

Salina: They got a collar.

Nikki: Fancy pajamas.

Nikki: I do know.

Salina: So I have those.

Salina: I could do a costume change of pajamas at this party.

Salina: So maybe that sounds good.

Salina: I was going to ask you, do you and Kyle dress up with the kids?

Salina: I actually don't know.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: No, not really, because we've mostly done with the exception of their first Halloween randomly.

Nikki: Last year, Landon ended up wearing the same costume he wore.

Nikki: So last year, he would have been four.

Nikki: He wore the same costume he wore when he was, like, two.

Nikki: It was just the only thing he would wear.

Nikki: He wouldn't wear anything else.

Salina: And it fit.

Nikki: It was like a pirate costume.

Nikki: So it had, like, the ragged edge at the bottom on the pants.

Nikki: So it kind of just looked like that was how it was meant to be, like ripped off pants.

Nikki: But again, the kids just have so many random costumes that we buy throughout the year that they usually just pick from what they already have, and there's no family costume that goes into it.

Nikki: And I'm not a super big costume person anyway.

Salina: I love it.

Salina: I need, like, a reason.

Nikki: I would see it as such a waste of money, and that's really hard for me.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: So I don't know.

Nikki: We've not done it so far.

Nikki: Not to say we never would, but no, we usually just let them do their thing.

Nikki: I wear a hocus pocus T shirt.

Nikki: Kyle has a Halloween t shirt.

Salina: And, like, in the vast opposite of you, if I could hold, like, a Halloween party, I would throw one that was, like, Victorian, where everybody dressed up.

Salina: I'm getting my ear is confused, but think like Marie Antoinette.

Nikki: Well, I guess that was colonial.

Nikki: I was going to say.

Nikki: So, like, the party in hocus pocus.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: But yeah, very similar.

Salina: I would love to do something like that.

Nikki: That would be really fun.

Salina: And then coordinate some kind of dance.

Salina: Like, what are those stupid flash mold?

Salina: Thank you.

Salina: But, like, one that's, like, don't invite me.

Salina: Done.

Salina: To Queens.

Salina: That song that's like she's a killer.

Nikki: Don't invite me.

Salina: Don't invite you.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: Just invite me after the flash mop.

Salina: I mean, here's the thing.

Salina: I'm not going to do any of that because it's, like, a lot of work.

Salina: So it's more of something for my head.

Salina: I just think it would be really I sometimes think I don't know how people dress like that all the time, but I'd like to experience it just one time to see what it felt like.

Salina: So that's mine.

Salina: But the last question I was going to ask, do you have any favorite Halloween traditions?

Nikki: I do.

Nikki: We always turn on hocus pocus.

Nikki: And now we've got hocus pocus too, which is very exciting.

Nikki: So we usually turn that on when the kids first get home from school or like early in the day and watch that while we get ready.

Nikki: And then we go trick or treat and come back.

Nikki: As the kids are getting older, I think that's going to become much more of a tradition.

Nikki: We live in a neighborhood.

Nikki: That couple of things sold me on the neighborhood.

Nikki: But imagining Halloween in our neighborhood was one of the things because we live in a very expansive neighborhood.

Nikki: So there's a lot of trick or treating options but also just a lot of kids.

Nikki: And so they just go out and do their thing.

Nikki: So I think as our kids get older, there's going to be a lot more tradition with that.

Nikki: Like in our cul de sac, the people who moved in kind of the first wave in our neighborhood.

Nikki: Their kids are all going to college now, but they used to get together in the cul de sac and do like a big chili cook off or something before trickortreater time.

Nikki: So I think as our kids get older, we'll experience that a bit more.

Nikki: But we watch Halloween movies, like all through October.

Nikki: And then on Halloween night, we almost always order either Papa John's or Pizza Hut.

Nikki: Does a pumpkin shaped yeah, pizza.

Nikki: So we usually order that and have that for dinner.

Nikki: Yeah, we do a lot of stuff.

Nikki: I've got right now some tombstone shaped brownies, like a mix that comes with a cookie cutter so you can make them like tombstone shapes and we'll decorate them.

Nikki: Probably going to do that this weekend.

Nikki: But we do stuff like that just kind of sprinkled throughout the month.

Nikki: We do try to do something like every weekend.

Salina: That's fun.

Nikki: I get really excited about Halloween.

Salina: I love Halloween.

Nikki: So good.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: I think our traditions ebb and flow.

Salina: Like some years we do well.

Salina: I mean, I have pumpkins every year.

Salina: But some years we like carve a pumpkin.

Salina: Other years not so much.

Nikki: It just depends how much work.

Salina: It's so much work.

Salina: And I should say messy, hazy does.

Salina: I might choose whatever he's going to do.

Salina: But I've never been so invested that I've gotten much more past the first cut and been like, I'm good.

Salina: But I think my biggest tradition every year is I think I'm in the mood to watch a bunch of scary movies.

Salina: And then I get like five minutes in and I'm like, I can't, I can.

Nikki: I don't love a scary movie.

Salina: This year's rendition of that was me trying to watch the Netflix show Domer.

Nikki: Oh, I heard about this.

Salina: I got four episodes in and I.

Nikki: Was like my friend so much.

Nikki: My friend said she couldn't sleep after she she watched one episode and couldn't sleep.

Salina: Oh, really?

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: She had to go get her husband in the middle of the night, she's like, Protect me.

Salina: It's intense.

Nikki: That doesn't sound good to me.

Salina: Yeah, Casey finished it, and I was like, I can't I don't know.

Salina: It felt like it was affecting my psyche or something.

Nikki: I read the Wikipedia article about that show, and then it led me down a path about Jeffrey Dahmer.

Salina: And I was like, that's the thing.

Salina: I know a lot about Jeffrey Dahmer.

Nikki: Because then why would you have watched this thing?

Salina: Well, that's it, right?

Salina: And I think that was like I listened to a podcast where they kind of but that's so different.

Salina: It's, like, cerebral.

Nikki: I do love a true crime podcast.

Nikki: And they're not super graphic.

Nikki: They're not super gory, but when they try to cinematize, that not the ones I listen to.

Salina: Let me clarify, this is the last podcast on the left.

Salina: So what I will say is they interject a lot of humor, so it keeps you from feeling scared.

Nikki: So we can laugh at people's murders.

Salina: It's more like when they covered the Mansons, they talked about, manson was really kind of an idiot, and it just shocked them that he was able to acquire that level of a following because he was basically just like this, just like a bad criminal who never got away with anything.

Salina: And then, I don't know, just the way they described it's just different.

Salina: In the case of Dahmer, he is notoriously, like, a really bad alcoholic, so they focused a lot on that part.

Salina: But it's not that it's funny to be an alcoholic.

Salina: I think they were just talking about how messy he got towards the end because he was too drunk to be doing some killing.

Salina: So I'm like, can you cut this?

Salina: What's happening?

Salina: I'm just saying, if you're trying to get away with a crime, you probably shouldn't be drunk.

Nikki: Tips from Salina.

Salina: So good.

Nikki: Follow up on tips from Sabrina last episode.

Salina: Speaking of things that I wish I could take back, it's okay.

Salina: No, I stand by that one.

Salina: Really?

Salina: Like, don't commit crimes, but if you're going to commit crime, don't commit a crime while you're drunk.

Nikki: So you're doubling down is what I'm hearing.

Salina: Down?

Salina: That's right.

Nikki: Can I tell you, though, this is the first Halloween in a hard pivot.

Nikki: This is the first Halloween season, and I don't know what's happening that I have not very excitedly bought a bunch of pumpkins in the middle of September and then had them just, like, marinate on my front porch in the heat.

Nikki: Yeah, I don't have any pumpkins yet, and we are almost the second week in October.

Nikki: Me neither, but pike is doing it's like, buy all you can carry pumpkins this weekend.

Nikki: So I'm kind of tempted you're eyeballing it.

Nikki: I need a pumpkin or two.

Nikki: It just seems expensive.

Nikki: I do have to go eyeball the selection and see how many I think I could realistically carry and see if it's worth $34 well, it's all about.

Salina: A plan and execution.

Nikki: Exactly.

Nikki: And if it doesn't work out there, then I'll just stop by Kroger on the way home and grab an actual pumpkin.

Salina: Well, I've talked about our annual trek to the mountains too many times, but that is tomorrow.

Nikki: That's tomorrow.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: We're going up there and we're getting pumpkins and stuff.

Salina: And I agree, this is still too early.

Salina: Honestly.

Salina: They will turn back to Primordial Ooze on the front porch.

Nikki: It's pretty bad.

Salina: It is.

Salina: It's really gross.

Nikki: It gets really gross.

Salina: And we get hay and so the hay and the water and the pumpkin.

Salina: And it's definitely a situation where I've got the hose out and yuck thing.

Salina: I know, but I just love it before that.

Salina: Right before that.

Salina: So I don't really have a good speaking of yuck.

Salina: Oh, speaking of yuck.

Nikki: Speaking of yuck.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: Being robbed is yucky.

Nikki: And on that note, we have a little bit of a trigger warning for this episode.

Nikki: We've only, I think, done this one other time at the end of season one, I think also involving Mary Joe.

Nikki: But as always, we love for people to join us on the show, but we also don't want anything to make you feel uncomfortable or make you feel any feels that you're not ready to feel.

Nikki: So if like self defense and assault and any of that triggers you in any way, just like, press pause and come back another time because this episode is going to be all about that.

Nikki: Even Extra Sugar is a little bit in that vein.

Nikki: So this episode might not be for you.

Nikki: Yeah, I think that she's nodding aggressively.

Salina: Yes, it might be a touch too much in extra Sugar if you feel the slightest apprehension.

Nikki: So don't listen.

Nikki: Go listen to an old episode, or we'll be back next week and we'd love to have you back.

Nikki: So with that, this week's episode is called Stand and Fight.

Nikki: So I think you've just begun to mash up descriptions maybe in IMDb.

Salina: I might have.

Nikki: So this is another mashup.

Nikki: It's called stand and fight.

Nikki: When Mary Joe is mugged, Anthony, persuades her and the ladies of Sugar Bakers to enroll in a self defense course, one that finds them learning mayor than the latest moves.

Nikki: She left that on principle.

Salina: I did, actually.

Salina: I don't think it's a mashup.

Salina: I think it might be hulu's.

Salina: And I was just so mad about.

Nikki: The and she said she was leaving it on principal.

Nikki: She didn't know what principal.

Salina: Yeah, it's there.

Nikki: So it should be if they find themselves learning more than the latest moves.

Nikki: So this one aired on May 8, 1989, and we're calling this one we're Mad as H***, and we're not going to take it anymore.

Nikki: It's written by LBT.

Nikki: And Pamela Norris and directed by David Trainer.

Nikki: General reactions, stray observations.

Salina: You know, being a woman is tough.

Salina: That was my first general reaction.

Salina: Amen there's just so many different facets to the whole darn thing.

Salina: And something like self defense really brings a lot to the surface because we've talked at other times about this and probably in that last Trigger Warning episode, but there's such a high level of things that are ingrained in us.

Salina: But a couple that really surfaced for me on this one, or Rose to the Top, is like being quote unquote, ladylike, which often translates to keeping your mouth shut and certainly never being aggressive or even being perceived as being aggressive.

Salina: And then also this other thing that I kind of felt, which is it's our job to not call attention to ourselves.

Salina: So I don't think this is quite as predominant as it was when this episode aired, but it's definitely still in the mix.

Salina: And as much as we tease, we're not that old and we still grew up, I think, with that sugar spice and everything nice ideology.

Salina: I know the saying.

Salina: That was my first one.

Salina: How about you?

Nikki: So my first general reaction is going to sound a lot like my review, but I really wasn't sure how else to start this other than acknowledging that this episode was so well done.

Nikki: So I will admit the end got a little after school especially, which is not my favorite, particularly.

Nikki: I feel like with some of the line delivery, it just starts to feel a little stilted or something.

Nikki: But I swear, like watching this entire episode about one of the characters that we find most endearing going through something so significant, she gets mugged and then has all the trauma that goes along with that of the event of being mugged, but then also the after trauma of what's?

Nikki: Probably PTSD and trying to figure out how you're going to live your life after that.

Nikki: But we go on that ride with her and it's like, you love this character so much.

Nikki: We acknowledge she's a character, she's not a real person, but we have a real affinity for Mary Joe.

Nikki: We've been with her this whole time.

Nikki: So to watch her go through this traumatic thing and go on that ride but you also laugh a little bit along the way.

Nikki: There were some really funny things.

Salina: Really funny, yeah.

Nikki: And so at the end, when she defended herself and yelled 911, I got super teary eyed.

Salina: You did too?

Salina: Yes.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: It wasn't just my chill bumps and teary eyed.

Nikki: I wasn't so empowering.

Salina: I wasn't sure if I was, like, overreacting or what it was, but I felt like I got teary eyed.

Nikki: What's a visceral experience that you can imagine.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: Again, being a woman is complicated.

Nikki: And I don't know the luxury of going out into the world by myself after dark and not thinking about it, not thinking, especially in a parking deck.

Salina: We don't have that luxury.

Salina: So you got to live that through.

Nikki: Someone that you identify with, that you can see yourself in and I thought that was amazing.

Nikki: And then you get that amazing Designing Women twist at the end that he's not just some dude in a parking deck, he's this client.

Nikki: And I just thought that was such a nice little way to bring the episode together.

Salina: Coming towards her with leather gloves that only murderers wear, like literally no motorcycle.

Nikki: Riders and people who drive classic cars and want to protect the steering wheel.

Salina: That's true.

Salina: And murderers also, like, take murder gloves off as soon as you get out of the car off of your motorcycle.

Nikki: I wear my driving gloves all the time.

Salina: I'm wearing mine right now.

Nikki: Those are your murder gloves.

Salina: Oh, yeah, that's what I meant.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: I mean, did you not hear me at the beginning of the show?

Salina: I better be careful.

Salina: All right, so I get my second general reaction was just that.

Salina: My second general reaction is I did a deep dive, but I got curious.

Salina: I get the motivation being like, we want to encourage people to protect themselves.

Salina: That's great.

Salina: That's probably enough.

Salina: But I also was like, what else was going on?

Nikki: Was there same seas?

Nikki: Let's see if it's the exact same thing we wrote down.

Salina: Now I'm worried.

Salina: Well, I don't know.

Salina: Well, first of all, I want to start by saying that there's an argument that I think LBT just generally is probably pushing back on a victim narrative that exists for women.

Salina: We very much so hear that come out.

Salina: And not just for women generally, but particularly for women in entertainment.

Salina: We get a big runner about what we do to women in movies.

Salina: Right.

Salina: Especially in the horror genre.

Salina: That's horror.

Salina: I definitely feel what I presume to be those opinions coming out there and really kind of just threaded throughout the episode.

Salina: But also I wondered if it had to do with some research being reported around this time.

Nikki: So we might not have the same thing here.

Nikki: We might have different theories.

Salina: Oh, okay.

Nikki: Sorry.

Nikki: Carry on.

Salina: No, that's good.

Nikki: I thought exciting.

Salina: Your eyes were so big.

Salina: I thought we landed on the same thing.

Nikki: I'm excited.

Salina: I'm stretching it a little bit.

Salina: So we'll see.

Salina: But according to the crime report, there was a huge survey put out in the mid 80s called the Sexual Experience Survey.

Salina: It still exists, just with an altered methodology, but it was administered to thousands of college students.

Salina: And this leads to the original one in four stat.

Salina: Now, that is one in four women experienced, attempted, or completed rape since the age of 14.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: So from that research, they learned that only 3% of women reported the incident to police.

Salina: So if this was being reported in the news cycle a lot, I can only imagine that our current event, Maven LBT picked up on it and wanted to do something about it where women felt a little bit more empowered to stand up for themselves.

Salina: So that's my guess what's yours?

Nikki: So mine is related to a real life incident that happened in April 1989.

Nikki: So just before this aired, and again, we established in the last episode, it's possible these things happen that quickly.

Salina: Turn around.

Nikki: So I'm proposing this episode was related to an incident in Central Park in April 1989.

Nikki: It's referred to as the Central Park Jogger case.

Nikki: So, of course it's hard to know for sure what was in LBT's mind, but as Julia points out, assault on women is common.

Nikki: And we know LBT was an avid New York Times reader, and this incident, which was the high profile assault and rape of a woman jogging through the park, would have undoubtedly been covered in The New York Times and like all media.

Nikki: So I feel like that may have been on her mind a little bit.

Nikki: That particular assault followed a string of violence in Central Park that night.

Nikki: The rest were mostly men, though.

Nikki: At any rate, Wikipedia noted that this was a case of national interest, and, quote, initially, it fueled public discourse about New York City's perceived lawlessness, criminal behavior by youths, and violence toward women.

Nikki: After the exonerations of the Central Park Five.

Nikki: Yes, the case became a prominent example of racial profiling, discrimination and inequality in the legal system and the media.

Nikki: So I was wondering if that was on her mind, because I thought this was just such a specific storyline.

Nikki: Again, it could have been something just marinating.

Nikki: Over time, all of these things add up, but I wonder if this was a catalyst event that she was like, now's the time we're doing the assault episode.

Salina: Yeah, I ran by that case, I think because the Central Park Five has become of high interest again, that when I ran past that case, that's all I could think of was what really wound up coming out in the wash then is that no matter what facet of society you look at, we have a lot of problems.

Salina: So I did think about the jogger and that's horrifying and terrible that that happened to that woman.

Salina: So, yeah, I see where you're coming from.

Salina: That could definitely be in the sauce.

Nikki: Even just like temporarily, they were happening sort of simultaneously.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: My last general reaction is that it occurred to me in the opening scene, there was just a lot of Atlanta Southern references.

Nikki: Oh, okay.

Nikki: It was way more Atlanta specific than a lot of opening scenes or really entire episodes have been.

Nikki: So I heard Sandy Springs, which is a city here in Atlanta, the juds New Orleans, there were just a lot of bombs dropped.

Nikki: Southern bombs dropped.

Salina: Gwynette.

Nikki: Gwynette our hometown.

Nikki: I think I mentioned that later, but yeah, that was mentioned as well.

Nikki: And those are just if you live in Atlanta, these are run of the mill things.

Nikki: But if you don't live in Atlanta, those are pretty specific things to call out.

Salina: Yeah, it felt a little bit more homegrown.

Salina: I agree with that.

Salina: So my last general reaction is our general deep dive.

Salina: I don't know, but Mary Joe goes on this tear about showing more women defending themselves, kicking the tar out of their attackers, and being the hero of the movie instead of the victim.

Salina: I don't think the stats are nearly as stark as they probably were in the late 80s, but they're still eyebrow raising.

Salina: Here's a couple of things to marinate on.

Salina: San Diego State's Center for the Study of Women in Television and Film released data earlier this year showing that men outnumbered women on screen by a factor of two to one in 2021.

Salina: Shows like Law and Order have been found to overrepresent women as victims.

Salina: According to a 2017 Washington Post article, just over 20% of murder victims are women, but on Law and Order, it is upward of 40%, and on Law and Order SVU, 60%.

Nikki: Just 20% of murder victims are women.

Salina: That's what it said.

Salina: Just over.

Nikki: That blows my mind a little bit.

Nikki: Maybe for the other reasons you said.

Salina: Yeah, maybe.

Salina: Because I do think we get a skewed story.

Salina: Right.

Salina: I don't think it's just on Law and Order, but I wanted to try and ground this in some reality, and that was the quickest thing I could find.

Salina: Even with Hollywood overrun by marvel and DC.

Salina: Male heroes appear more frequently than female heroes.

Salina: Or like, okay, let's do a little exercise.

Salina: Just picture the costume of Black Widow or Wonder Woman.

Salina: The stilettos, the tight leather, the micro mini skirts.

Salina: They're definitely telling us something.

Salina: And I'm not saying I loved Wonder Woman.

Salina: Don't get me wrong.

Salina: I'm just saying the outfit is very specific.

Salina: It's very sexualized, so it's something to think about.

Salina: We're not in entertainment as much as men.

Salina: When we are, our victimhood is overrepresented.

Salina: And even when we get to be heroes, we better be sexy.

Salina: So not the best math.

Nikki: I feel like a skin tight superhero uniform is just sort of the way to go, though.

Nikki: Like, Superman's a skin tight.

Nikki: Batman's a skin tight.

Nikki: It gives you the extra mobility from a practical perspective.

Salina: Okay, stilettos, go.

Nikki: Those are for stabbing people in the face.

Nikki: That's just practical.

Nikki: That's just science.

Salina: You know what I like?

Salina: I like your ability to dig yourself into an argument.

Salina: That's what I really like.

Salina: You commit, and I think that's really important.

Salina: Now, I do want to address something.

Salina: I think that what you're saying is very fair.

Salina: It's not like Superman has, like, love handles, and we're seeing, like, a very nice body there.

Salina: And I don't care if you're looking at a movie in 1980 yeah, we are.

Salina: Or if you're looking at a movie in 2022.

Salina: Okay, that's the case.

Salina: But the difference is that we also get to see a lot more representations of men.

Salina: We don't always get to see as many representations of women, and then we also.

Salina: Get to see their b**** hanging out and their b*** hanging out the back of their skirt.

Nikki: By the way, I'm totally joking.

Nikki: Although I do think there's a practical argument behind that.

Nikki: I get what you're saying, and I think actually it's harley Quinn, the actor who plays her, said that between they wanted her in skin type, very sexy clothes, and she was like, this sucks.

Salina: Oh, that's right.

Salina: She fought to do that alternative look.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: Which I would still call very sexy.

Salina: Just like, crazy sexy.

Salina: But Margot Robbie is here.

Nikki: Thank you.

Nikki: It just sort of points.

Nikki: You just said this about male celebrities, and again, I'm not trying to dig myself into an argument at all, but celebrities are just supposed to be beautiful.

Salina: That's right.

Nikki: They're just supposed to be there by the nature of the industry, which is movie star part of the problem of the industry.

Nikki: But yeah.

Nikki: You want to put them at the peak of their physical perfection.

Nikki: But Zach Efron, who's like my heart throb he said that the shape he had to get into for Baywatch was miserable, unattainable, and not realistic at all.

Salina: Right.

Salina: Because those guys, to do that stuff with their stomach where you can actually see, they have to dehydrate.

Salina: Right.

Salina: That's the only way you can achieve that look.

Nikki: Exactly.

Nikki: So he was, like, between starving and dehydrating.

Nikki: So all around guys, the goal should be to have a healthy, strong body.

Salina: That's right.

Nikki: And not the most beautiful body.

Salina: Right.

Nikki: But if you're going to have a beautiful body, be sack up front beyond Baywatch.

Salina: It's our time to practice our female days.

Nikki: It's such a messed up industry.

Nikki: It really is.

Salina: It is.

Nikki: All the way around.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: You got more generals or strays.

Nikki: Moving on to strays.

Salina: Let's do it.

Nikki: It's kind of the wardrobe theme.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: Can we talk about Suzanne's take on open toes as casual?

Salina: Oh, sure.

Nikki: She said something earlier.

Salina: Sounds so Suzanne, though, doesn't it?

Nikki: Yeah, I wish I had written the line down.

Nikki: Something about open toed shoes as being casual shoes.

Salina: Yeah, because she said I guess Julia said something along the lines of, suzanne, we're at a self defense class, right?

Salina: We're all in our, whatever, tennis shoes.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: What are you talking about?

Salina: I'm in my peep toes.

Nikki: I wore my open toes.

Nikki: It's so interesting to me.

Nikki: And I wonder if it's a tie back to that particular era of fashion when you would wear pantyhose.

Nikki: And then, of course, you couldn't wear pantyhose with open toed shoes, so maybe there was, like, a sense of open toes were a little bit less dressy, but a lot of women wear sling backs with, like, fancy ball gowns and stuff, so I don't know.

Nikki: I thought that was weird.

Nikki: You're a fashion lover, so I thought you might have some opinions.

Salina: I just thought it was so funny because it's just not casual in the sense of so I think I had taken it more from that angle, it could very much so be that era, which was definitely the pump.

Salina: I mean, I don't think there's ever been a bigger era for the pump.

Salina: I'm sure someone would argue with me.

Nikki: But then the can remember my mom having a pair of hot pink pointy toed pumps.

Salina: I feel like I could go pull out a pair right now.

Nikki: Like lipstick pink and I can remember like barbie just yesterday.

Nikki: Yes, barbie hills.

Salina: That's exactly how yeah.

Salina: And so I think that was maybe it might have okay.

Salina: Let me also pair this together with whether it's shoes or white after labor day or like whatever, I feel like the rules, especially in the south, the fashion rules were much more stringent than they are now.

Salina: And I feel like because the south tends to skew more traditional in all things, again, historically, but that's changing over time.

Salina: I think that we probably held on to some of those rules a little bit longer.

Nikki: See why I brought it up?

Nikki: I knew you would have some thoughts.

Nikki: Struck me.

Nikki: I only have one more stray, but I'd like you to give your strays first.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: So two big ones.

Nikki: Two big ones.

Salina: Actually, we've already said that they talk about gwennett county.

Salina: What I wanted to say is that that reference is slightly off because she refers to it as she being suzanne refers to it as being in the same area as sandy springs.

Salina: However, sandy springs is a city in fulton county.

Salina: They are not in the same location.

Nikki: That's a reference we won't talk about later, guys.

Salina: Sorry about that.

Nikki: Yeah, that was a huge yeah, well, I was going to say like anachronism or something.

Nikki: What's that word?

Salina: I don't know.

Nikki: Yeah, doesn't match.

Nikki: Yeah, not the CMZ.

Salina: Yeah, sorry.

Salina: Categories are hard in this.

Salina: So a couple of unfair comments in this one, julia wisecracks that Suzanne doesn't know how to say no.

Salina: Hardy har har.

Salina: Which is also I think the play that we went to see is still kind of circulating for me.

Salina: And when we went to go see the designing women play, there was a lot of that the other way around with Suzanne doing a lot of s*** shaming on Julia.

Salina: And so it's just funny to see that twist back in the regular series.

Salina: And then Mary Joe makes a comment about I guess that's what you get for having big breasts and running around on three inch stilts insinuating it's somehow.

Salina: They're like a woman's fault for tripping in a horror movie where they then proceed to kill her.

Salina: And I get it.

Salina: I get why it's funny, but also it's a little mean.

Nikki: You brought it on yourself.

Salina: It sounds jealous.

Salina: That's what you get for being easy to easily tipped over because you big chest.

Nikki: I thought you were going to say it was that whole, like you dress like a w****, you get treated like one.

Salina: I wonder if some of that's at play, too.

Nikki: That's what I hear.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Which I don't.

Salina: We'll get to that later on, but I'm not a big fan, which is good, because if I was listening to this podcast and someone was a big fan of that, it'd probably be the point.

Salina: I'd durn it off.

Salina: That's it for me.

Nikki: I want to give it up to the guest actors.

Nikki: We have two guest actors I want to mention.

Nikki: Millicent Collingsworth played the self defense instructor.

Nikki: She mentioned in passing that she's blind.

Nikki: And I confirmed, in fact, that the actor is in the process of doing that.

Nikki: I found a really terrible 1987 article about how she was injured really badly in some sort of fight on a city bus in Los Angeles and had to walk 15 blocks back home, and no one stopped to help her.

Nikki: Oh, God, she's, like, dripping in blood and no one stopped to help her.

Nikki: She reenacted that incident on a CBS show called Houston Knights later, and I sort of wonder if this became her wheelhouse.

Nikki: That is, like, self defense, advocating for people to be aware of issues like this, et cetera.

Salina: It does feel like it was still that time where we were doing, like, the more you know right.

Salina: And I don't know if that was something you had to work into the episodes at some point, like if it was a requirement or not, but it was in every show we watched growing up.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: The second one I wanted to mention was Buddy Farmer, who played DB.

Nikki: LaBeouf.

Nikki: He ultimately became known more for his playwriting, but something interesting I wanted to share here is that he's from Florida and went to the University of Alabama.

Nikki: So he's a southern guy.

Salina: See that?

Nikki: Most importantly, I wanted to bring up DB.

Nikki: Le Buffouff, because he's a very wealthy man from New Orleans, which gives us a beautiful segue into Nickies Nibbles.

Salina: Come on, y'all.

Nikki: Let's talk fiddles.

Nikki: Nicky's nibbles.

Nikki: Come on, y'all, let's eat.

Nikki: So how about that transition?

Salina: Oh, that looks very nice.

Nikki: I want to do a Nikki's Nolan's nibbles.

Nikki: What do you think?

Salina: I think I'm hungry just hearing the title.

Nikki: So we've talked about this before, that I love New Orleans.

Nikki: It's, like, really hot and very humid in the summertime, but it is still amazing.

Nikki: And it's just, like mostly it's because of the food.

Nikki: They have a lot of really good food, but it's an interesting place.

Nikki: It's got a really unique vibe.

Nikki: I feel like most people in the United States, no matter where they live or where they're from, they could look at a specific piece of architecture or a type of food or hear a Cajun word and be like, that sounds like Louisiana, or that sounds like New Orleans.

Nikki: And I don't think a lot of places can say that.

Nikki: It is super unique to that one specific place.

Nikki: And I just think that's really neat.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: So for this segment, I found a list of famous New Orleans dishes on New

Nikki: I'm going to share the list in its entirety, but in the interest of time, share the list in its entirety on the website, but in the interest of time, I picked out a handful of my favorites.

Nikki: I'm going to talk about what the dish is, and then I'm going to share some memories I have of being in New Orleans and having it or just like, general memories I have about that food.

Nikki: And I would welcome you to chime in.

Salina: Sounds good.

Nikki: So first up is Jumbalaya.

Nikki: For anyone who doesn't know, jumbalaya is almost like a rice based stir fry.

Nikki: It's got rice and meat or a mixture of meat, chicken, seafood, sausage, peppers, onions, maybe some other vegetables.

Nikki: And then, of course, spice.

Nikki: According to that New article, jumbalaya came to New Orleans via colonial Spanish settlers who were trying to reconstruct their native paella using locally sourced ingredients.

Nikki: I don't have any specific recommendations for Jumbalaya in New Orleans because you can pretty much get it anywhere, and it's probably always delicious.

Nikki: But I will share that this was a staple dinner in my house growing up, which I think is kind of unusual.

Nikki: I don't think a lot of people eat Jumbalaya, like, on a probably bi weekly basis, we would have it.

Salina: Oh, wow.

Nikki: Yeah, we ate it all the time.

Nikki: I cook it probably once a month in our house.

Salina: Does your stepdad have family in New Orleans or something?

Nikki: He has family.

Nikki: He's more or less from Louisiana.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: He's a little bit of a military brat, but they settled down in Louisiana, and so his dad still lives there, and that's why I've ended up in New Orleans so many times.

Nikki: He's usually visiting his family down there.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: So it does make sense for you, though.

Nikki: It makes sense for our family, for sure.

Nikki: So in my opinion, the zatarans mix that you can just buy at Kroger is pretty good, but my parents have this one brand they really prefer, and I think it's by You Magic.

Nikki: I asked my stepdad and he couldn't remember the name of it, but he described the package to me because it's really hard to find here.

Nikki: It's a little more easy to find, and it's definitely more easy to find in Louisiana.

Nikki: And sometimes he has family send it to him.

Salina: Road trip?

Nikki: I think so.

Nikki: That's what I'm hearing, but I think it's called Bayou Magic, but that's what he loves.

Nikki: Whichever mix you use, get some crystal hot sauce.

Nikki: Crystal Hot Sauce is my favorite hot sauce, and it's Louisiana made, so it makes your Jumbalaya very good and everything good and everything, yeah.

Nikki: You have any memories of Jumbalaya?

Salina: I have memories of crystal's hot sauce.

Nikki: So good, isn't it?

Salina: I have only had Jumbalaya maybe like, a handful of times.

Salina: So you've had it more in one week than I've had it probably in my entire life.

Salina: I also'm going to just be honest.

Salina: You probably hit on some of these other ones.

Salina: This is why I'm really excited to listen is because some of these staple foods, they come off as similar to me even though they're probably not.

Salina: So, like, is it etife?

Nikki: Oh, etife, yeah.

Salina: For some reason I get them and confused in my head.

Salina: It's really interesting to me that you said that Jumbalaya is not trying to but kind of like an homage or something to Paella or whatever.

Salina: Because now that I'm like, duh.

Salina: How did that never occur to me before?

Salina: Right, but it's delicious.

Salina: Again, it is something that you can get here a lot more now, but it's just not as regular as going out and getting a burger.

Nikki: Right.

Nikki: And I will like going back to the Crystal hot sauce whenever I can find it.

Nikki: It's like the white whale hot sauce.

Nikki: I like Texas Pete.

Nikki: I think it's fine.

Nikki: But when I see Crystal or what's the other tabasco?

Nikki: I really like tabasco.

Nikki: But when you have Crystal, that's the.

Salina: One I'm going to choose because we're a chalula household.

Nikki: See, not so much for me.

Nikki: Yeah, but anywhere I can find Crystal.

Nikki: And we were in San Francisco going up to Sonoma and went to a restaurant and found they had Crystal hot sauce.

Nikki: I was like, of all places in the world because you can't even find it in every restaurant here in Georgia.

Nikki: Anyway, very good.

Salina: Got to bring your own in your purse.

Nikki: It's true.

Nikki: It's true.

Nikki: My second entry in this list is a two parter and I'm going to kind of put it under the umbrella of New Orleans sandwiches.

Nikki: So it's the poboy and the muffalada.

Nikki: Poboys are in my wheelhouse muffilatas.

Nikki: I'm due to try again.

Nikki: I have not historically enjoyed them.

Nikki: So a muffalata is an Italian sandwich invented in New Orleans with cured meats, ham and salami, specifically provolone cheese, olive dressing, which is where you lose me and like a delicious bread.

Nikki: So according to that New article I referenced, the olive dressing sports chopped green and black olives with onions and olive oil and spices.

Nikki: And the bread is a round sesame seed roll big enough for sharing.

Nikki: Historically, I have not enjoyed olives, which is why it's a turn off for me.

Nikki: But I will tell you, I tried some olives recently.

Nikki: Was it here at your house?

Salina: Oh, maybe.

Nikki: I tried olives recently.

Salina: I'm like I hate olives.

Salina: I served them.

Nikki: I really liked them.

Nikki: So it might be worth a try again.

Nikki: No black.

Salina: Oh, really?

Nikki: Maybe it was out at dinner.

Nikki: It might have been out at dinner with my friends.

Nikki: I'm thinking of.

Salina: Yeah, because I think I have that gene with black olives where they taste a little bit like soap to me.

Nikki: Oh, interesting.

Salina: But green olives.

Nikki: Green olives.

Salina: I love colomata.

Salina: So all to say to keep us on track for the mufalata.

Salina: That's a tough sell for me, even though I've had them.

Salina: But I will say, just to add in that you're in Casey's wheelhouse on both of these sandwiches.

Nikki: Oh, yeah.

Salina: If these appear on a menu, he's getting them.

Nikki: So a PO boy is I can eat it all the time.

Nikki: It's delicious.

Nikki: It is a sandwich on two pieces of delicious baguette bread.

Nikki: Basically, you can pick from a variety of fillings.

Nikki: I usually do like a fried shrimp.

Nikki: I've done down in the 38 area in Florida.

Nikki: One time there was a Nashville hot chicken poboy that I tried that was very good.

Nikki: But other people love to get, like, fried oysters or roast beef.

Nikki: On top of the filling is usually lettuce, tomatoes, and pickles.

Nikki: And then, of course, I put hot sauce or cocktail sauce on mine.

Nikki: And I don't know that I've ever had a poboy that I didn't love.

Salina: Because it's so simple.

Nikki: There's not much to it.

Nikki: So I eat a lot of poboys, and I'll go ahead and list my third entry as a two parter as well.

Nikki: Okay.

Nikki: Under the umbrella of snacks, we've got beignets and French roast coffee with Chickery.

Salina: I was really hoping that a sandwich would appear under your snacks.

Nikki: And a side of beef.

Nikki: Beignets are super straightforward.

Nikki: They're basically deep fried dough covered in powdered sugar.

Salina: I love beignets so much.

Nikki: They're like a little pillow of deliciousness, and then you top them with powdered sugar.

Nikki: So according to the source material, beignets were first introduced to the city by French Creole colonists in the 18th century.

Nikki: New Orleans is just covered with places offering beignets.

Nikki: You find them everywhere.

Nikki: But possibly the most well known is Cafe Dumond, an open air coffee shop in the French Quarter.

Nikki: And those beignets go super well with a cup of French roast coffee.

Nikki: I can't go to Cafe Dumont and not get a Cafe Ole, which is coffee with steamed milk on top.

Nikki: So if you can handle the dairy, very good.

Nikki: And if you like a Cafe Ole, just order a Cafe Misto at Starbucks.

Nikki: It's the same thing.

Nikki: And they can make it with dairy free alternatives.

Nikki: And Cafe Dumont's coffee is made with Chickery, which is a plant root that adds sort of a chocolatey flavor to the coffee.

Nikki: And that's very unique to Louisiana.

Salina: I like it.

Salina: I know it's a defisive flavor.

Salina: I feel like that people either love it or they're like, but I like it.

Salina: I think it's pretty tasty.

Nikki: It's super distinctive.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: I don't want it every day.

Nikki: It takes me a couple of I need a couple of cups to get back into it.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: And I have just one more.

Nikki: I wanted to add one that wasn't included on this source material list that I found, but it's creme brulee.

Nikki: It's definitely from 1600 Sprance, but for that reason, probably it shows up a lot in New Orleans.

Nikki: It is 1000% my favorite fancy dessert.

Nikki: For anyone who doesn't know, creme brulee is essentially a custard topped with a hardened sugar.

Nikki: The custard is made and then they top it with the sugar mixture and then they torch it to melt the sugar together to create the hard top.

Nikki: So you sort of like crunch through the sugary top and get to that delicious custardy bottom, which is sort of like a pudding.

Nikki: It's so good.

Nikki: And one year for my birthday, we ended up at Commander's Palace in New Orleans, which is a beautiful restaurant and such a treat.

Nikki: If you go to New Orleans, you should make the space to go there.

Salina: It's like a staple restaurant there it is.

Nikki: It's in the beautiful garden district, which is, I think just north of the French quarter, which is like where Bourbon street is.

Nikki: And so you have to sort of pass the party zone to get to it.

Nikki: And it's in a much quieter place, but it was established in the late 18 hundreds by a man with the last name of commander.

Nikki: So that's where the name comes from.

Nikki: Today it's owned by the Brennan family of restaurants.

Nikki: So this might resonate with you.

Nikki: Old school Atlantans might recognize that name because we used to have a Brennan's in Atlanta.

Nikki: This is before your time, but in the 70s.

Salina: Was it like a cafeteria style?

Nikki: I don't know.

Nikki: It was in the it was only open for a few years, I think.

Nikki: The other thing I was going to say about the Brennan's family of restaurants is that they own a lot of other restaurants in New Orleans and other cities and they also own Dickie Brennan's steakhouse, which is on Bourbon street.

Nikki: And if memory serves, also has a delicious creme brulee.

Nikki: But that creme brulee I had at Commander's Palace, that entire meal is probably a top three meal of all time for me.

Nikki: But that creme brulee was fantastic.

Nikki: So if you ever go to New Orleans, please make the time and space to go to Commander's Palace.

Salina: I'm telling you, after we did the bachelorette party, I was in.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: So thank you.

Salina: It's like round out my list.

Nikki: It's great.

Salina: Yeah, I really, really want to go.

Nikki: It's really great.

Nikki: So on that note of delicious food, what if we transition to things we liked?

Salina: I'm into it.

Nikki: All right.

Nikki: What about that whole self defense class?

Salina: Thank you.

Salina: I mean, Suzanne is comic relief, basically fantastic.

Nikki: Her attire, her getting picked as the example, her pulling the gun out of.

Salina: Her bag, which you don't think you're normally going to be like, it was hilarious, see?

Nikki: Hilarious.

Salina: See.

Salina: You never know how you're going to frame a serial killer.

Nikki: It's true.

Salina: And you never know when whipping a gun out is going to be just a good time.

Salina: And it's normally not guys, but in this episode it was just funny.

Nikki: It was really funny.

Nikki: She, like, asked the attacker to hold her things while she got her gun.

Nikki: It was so absurd.

Nikki: And I think I really love the absurd.

Nikki: Yeah, I thought that was hilarious.

Nikki: I also really loved when Julia said no, yes.

Nikki: No.

Nikki: And then Charlene yelling in the attackers and teachers faces before they even started.

Nikki: They're so cute.

Nikki: They're so charlene.

Nikki: She was just so excited.

Salina: It's funny that you said that you mentioned those two examples, because one of the things I have that I like, I think is going to be like the umbrella to what you're saying, which is that I liked how the class demonstration brought out everyone's personality.

Nikki: Oh, that's a good point.

Salina: So, I mean, we just saw full Suzanne on display.

Nikki: We see Julia doing in all their glory.

Salina: That's right.

Salina: So I think that pretty much encapsulates every one of my likes, except for one, which is this is another example of an episode where they allowed it to breathe no b plot.

Salina: And I think it worked really well.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: Did you have other things you liked in this episode?

Salina: Is it I mean, I do, but like, nothing that I have of note here.

Nikki: And so moving to things we didn't like, I'll just go ahead and say the only thing I didn't like in this episode was the trauma that Mary Joe had to go through.

Nikki: Otherwise, I really liked the episode.

Salina: That's tough.

Salina: You actually captured something that was like we do this a lot, but I'm just going to say sometimes it feels harsh to call a couple of things dislikes.

Salina: But you have mentioned how it started to feel a little bit like a PSA in some places.

Salina: That's what I categorized here.

Salina: The more egregious parts for me was like the way they worked in the stats was kind of rough.

Salina: The laboof speech at the end, I like what he said.

Salina: I agree with the things that he said.

Salina: It was just a little too pitch perfect, like he was reading a brochure.

Salina: Women should definitely be in power.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: I don't know.

Nikki: Is there just no good way to deliver information like that?

Salina: It's so funny that you say that because I have to tell you that my sub bullet to all of this is I also recognize that smoothly working something like this in is not easy.

Salina: I'm not even sure there's a perfect way to do it.

Salina: So look, I had an answer to your question.

Salina: I don't know, but I think the answer is no.

Nikki: I don't think there is.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: So I think, as usual, this would be something that we are like commending LBT for doing and in a way that kept us entertained.

Nikki: Yeah, for sure.

Salina: You want to rate this sucker on that note?

Nikki: Yeah, I'm going to rate it on a scale of self defense class door prizes.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: So that's a play on Suzanne asking if she got some kind of prize for being selected to demonstrate defense with the faux attacker.

Salina: Absolutely.

Nikki: I'm giving it five out of five.

Nikki: I feel like this is one I would rewatch.

Nikki: Again, I super appreciated the twist at the end.

Nikki: I think it was probably a little predictable.

Nikki: I'm not always the best at predicting endings.

Nikki: I don't know if it's that I'm really naive or just like, I don't like to think about things too hard, and I don't put a lot of mental energy into predicting, but I thought it was really clever, and I liked it.

Salina: And then the whole self defense class, which was like, a third of the.

Nikki: Episode, was really funny.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: I gave it four and a half out of five handguns in a pinch.

Salina: I think it was purposeful, and I think it struck that good balance between being something serious while not forgetting that we're here to laugh.

Salina: And again, I just took off a half a point for those places where it felt a little stilted.

Salina: I had that same word.

Salina: It's interesting that we both thought of it in those exact terms when they're trying to give the information.

Salina: Just a half.

Salina: .4 and a half.

Salina: Not so shabby.

Salina: Not so shabby.

Salina: Who won the episode or who buttered our biscuits?

Nikki: I have two winners.

Nikki: Anthony.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: Because he was the voice of encouragement for the women throughout the episode, and he gave them the information for the self defense class.

Salina: Plus, he's funny and not a man's.

Salina: Blaine anyway.

Nikki: Oh, yeah, definitely.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: It was definitely like, hey, there's this thing going on.

Nikki: You guys should go.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: It was really nice.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: My second potential winner is this line.

Nikki: I just knew when it came right down to it, I was worth fighting for, and I wasn't embarrassed.

Nikki: That was so moving to me and so amazing to hear Mary Joe embrace that and appreciate that.

Nikki: And I liked it.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Mine was Suzanne.

Nikki: Whoa.

Salina: She was just top notch in this episode.

Salina: Between the writing and the way delta blur.

Nikki: Delta blurk.

Salina: Come on.

Nikki: Delta blurk.

Salina: The way she plays it, she's really doing something pretty special.

Salina: I've thought that in a lot of the back half of this season that she's been more and more impressive.

Salina: Not that she hasn't been, but I think we're just seeing her come to a whole new level here.

Salina: And then who lost the episode?

Salina: Who served us lumpy gravy?

Nikki: So let me be clear.

Nikki: The obvious, quote unquote winner here is the mugger.

Nikki: But I don't want to be obvious.

Nikki: Obvious is lame.

Nikki: So I'm going to say it might be Mary Joe's mama because of something you brought up earlier.

Nikki: She never talked with her about defending herself, and in fact, she said her mom told her a couple of times not to fight.

Nikki: It wasn't ladylike, which fine, but couldn't she have told her once or twice that it's worth it if your life is at stake?

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: So I'm taking that as a mama lesson, that it's okay to defend yourself.

Nikki: And that's not quite the same as picking a fight and getting dusty on the playground, though, if you want to do that, too, that's fine.

Salina: Yeah, I definitely used to tear it up on the playground.

Nikki: I feel like I sent you for a spin with my answer.

Salina: No.

Salina: I was definitely not expecting it, but mine is the guy in the self defense class getting kicked in the groin all day.

Salina: He's losing and winning.

Salina: He's helping women, but he's also getting kicked in the groin all day.

Nikki: He was pretty well buffered, though.

Salina: I think that's true.

Salina: Well, they're sensitive.

Nikki: That's true.

Nikki: So we've heard.

Salina: We have 80s things.

Nikki: Picking up concerts at a ticket stand, which is the whole genesis of Mary Joe's mugging, was that she was going to get the judge tickets in person.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: Mary Joe's checkbook being in her purse and being something someone wanted to steal.

Salina: Right.

Salina: Today, they'd just be like, what the h*** is this?

Nikki: Right?

Nikki: And then a Ready Teller, which is where Suzanne wanted Charlene to mug her when they were doing, like, their whatever.

Nikki: That sounds like it was just an early ATM.

Nikki: Maybe.

Nikki: So I think it's not the fact that it's an ATM that makes it 80s.

Nikki: It's that it's called the Ready Teller and that it's like this brand.

Salina: Sure.

Salina: Those were mines Southern things.

Salina: We've already talked about a number, and I'm sorry I screwed one up for you there, but that's fine.

Nikki: Northwest Central.

Nikki: Atlanta Design magazine.

Salina: That's where you went down that rabbit hole.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: I didn't find anything.

Nikki: Did you?

Salina: No.

Nikki: Okay.

Nikki: Perfect.

Nikki: New Orleans.

Salina: LVT got us again.

Nikki: I mentioned early on we had Sandy Springs, where the ticket pickup was, and the Juds.

Nikki: Sandy Springs is a city in Atlanta, and the Juds were an American country music duo.

Nikki: And then the Gwinnett County reference, which you stole from me.

Salina: I'm so sorry.

Salina: I also want to add in on the Juds that Naomi passed away this year back in April.

Nikki: Thanks for that.

Salina: Well, it's just current events.

Salina: I mean, not that current, I guess, April.

Salina: But it is still being reported in the news.

Nikki: Oh, yeah.

Nikki: It's gotten messy.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: As those things do.

Salina: And then what I mean by those things.

Salina: I mean, your life playing out in the media just always tends to get messy.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: So Suzanne says, I don't think there's any reason for me to be wallowing around the sidewalks.

Salina: And somehow walling just sounds real Southern to me.

Salina: And then beating the tar out of someone.

Salina: We've gotten that Southern reference before.

Salina: But that's just a Southern saying right there.

Salina: How about references that we need to talk about?

Nikki: Don't have anything.

Salina: I have a couple.

Salina: So the panty girdle.

Nikki: First of all, I feel like I need it.

Salina: Yeah, I spent a strange amount of.

Nikki: Time now your Google search history is even more interesting.

Salina: It's just.

Salina: Really weird.

Salina: But first of all, these are the two worst words together.

Salina: I think that it rivals the M word.

Salina: Moist.

Salina: Panty.

Salina: Girdle.

Salina: It's just the whole thing is bad.

Nikki: People who hate the word panty really hate the word panty.

Salina: This isn't I don't love it.

Nikki: Anyway, girdle.

Nikki: Girdle.

Salina: For people who don't know, it's basically compression underwear or what might be referred to as a foundation garment.

Salina: It's meant to make the waist and stomach look smaller.

Salina: Spanx is the updated version, but arguably better, but, like, also not lightning years apart.

Salina: As much as they might want, we're suppressing people is what I'm trying to say.

Salina: Just one of them looks a little better than the last one.

Salina: So is it true that kicks to the groin used to be censored for TV?

Salina: That was something that came up.

Salina: I looked around, but I couldn't find anything to validate this claim.

Salina: So I'm just saying, if anybody happens to know I don't know why it's so hard to find LBT.

Nikki: Is this real?

Nikki: H***, she's listening.

Salina: Why is it so hard to find TV censorship information?

Salina: Because I don't want you to know it's censored.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: Jason from Friday the 13th and Freddie Krueger Nightmare on Elm Street.

Salina: Just two iconic horror movie characters and.

Nikki: Franchises so much older than I give them credit for.

Nikki: If they were referenced in a 1989 show, they've been around a minute.

Salina: But they were newer then newer.

Salina: I think the first it wouldn't have been the Jason movie, but the very first movie, which actually his mother being the killer, I think was released in the very late 70s.

Salina: But I'm not sure they're as well known with kids today as they were with us.

Salina: So it felt worth mentioning since this is airing on Halloween.

Salina: Charles Bronson just that he gets a mention in the beginning for Mary Joe.

Salina: He's a movie star, but he's also this, like, archetype tough guy in movies.

Salina: And I think her whole point being, like, you don't always have to have these hard boiled men be the heroes.

Salina: Women can be the heroes, too.

Salina: That's how it relates to the show.

Salina: See?

Salina: It's all related.

Salina: Cut lines.

Salina: Nikki just sits here and watches me unravel over the course of our recording days.

Salina: You all don't see all the hand gestures that come.

Salina: I like to work them up.

Nikki: They hear it, Salina.

Salina: See my arms all jiggle?

Salina: Stop it.

Nikki: Okay, stop it.

Nikki: Cut lines.

Nikki: I have a couple.

Nikki: We lost a throwback to season one's finale.

Nikki: Hence Winchester, the man who attacked Mary Joe right after Mary Joe said she's never been able to fight.

Nikki: This was cut.

Nikki: Why Mary Joe?

Nikki: Remember when hence Winchester attacked you?

Nikki: You broke a lamp over his head.

Nikki: Well, I knew hence Winchester.

Nikki: And I didn't think he was going to kill me.

Nikki: But I can't fight a stranger.

Nikki: I mean, my mother taught me that fighting was not ladylike, and that really stuck in my head.

Nikki: There was a really big cut after Julia and Suzanne had their spat about dress code.

Nikki: At the beginning of the self defense session, we learned charlene learned a little self defense as a campfire girl.

Nikki: However, they used it to play tricks on one another.

Nikki: And then it sounds like maybe Mary Joe learned some in PE, which included flipping a person over their shoulder, which is what she references when she asks her questions to the instructor.

Nikki: But whoever it was that she was practicing with never actually learned to flip their partner because their partner just took pity on them because they were going to fail PE.

Nikki: So if it was Mary Joe, her partner was like, you don't have to flip me.

Nikki: You're going to fail if you try.

Nikki: So that's why Mary Joe is so self conscious about flipping.

Nikki: She knows she can't do it.

Nikki: There was also, as part of this, probably what I'm imagining is a straight from LBT's brain line at the end, where Mary Joe says the self defense the school taught her wasn't really all that practical.

Nikki: She said.

Nikki: I mean, the same school was telling me that I could survive a direct hit from an atomic bomb if I just crawled under my desk.

Nikki: And that feels like something that someone who was raised in that time period, like it would come straight out of their head.

Nikki: Sure, that's the app next Episode episode 21 the Last Humorously Dressed Bellboy in America that is really hard for me to say.

Nikki: We'd love everyone to follow along with us and engage Instagram and Facebook at sweetteantv.

Nikki: Email and our website is

Nikki: As always, there are several ways to support the show.

Nikki: You can rate and review us wherever you listen.

Nikki: You can tell your friends and family about us, or you can visit the Support US section of our website and hang tight for Extra Sugar, where we're.

Salina: Going to do self defense.

Salina: We're going to dig into it.

Salina: We're not going to do it.

Salina: We'll do it.

Nikki: Let's do it.

Salina: Let's do it.

Nikki: I can flip.

Salina: We'll try.

Salina: I don't know.

Nikki: Okay, let's not do that.

Salina: You got to make yourself firm to the ground to not be flipped.

Salina: These are the I'm self defense I'm firm.

Salina: Well, let's firmly move on to Extra Sugar, shall we?

Salina: We'll see you around the van, guys.

Salina: By welcome to this week's edition of Extra Sugar.

Salina: As we discussed in the main episode, Stand and Fight, it operated a little bit like a PSA, statistics and all.

Salina: So we hear from Julia that three out of four women gets attacked and that every 60 seconds in this country, a woman is sexually assaulted.

Salina: So I want to start today's segment out discussing more current data, not to scare, but to inform.

Salina: And then I'd like to talk about the importance of self defense.

Salina: So we'll cover some tips and tricks for your consideration, much like at the top of the episode, please note that we will be discussing sexual assault and violence.

Salina: So if for any reason this might be triggering for you, we suggest that you stop here and join us next time.

Salina: More than anything, we want to be sensitive to the topic and not assume that this is a listen for everyone.

Salina: What we will do, however, is link to some self defense resources in the show notes.

Salina: So please know that those are available for you if you wish to get those.

Salina: So the data, let's start with some statistics that they shared in the show.

Salina: Even this idea that I thought about as I was listening to those statistics, as well as what I wound up finding out when I was doing my research, is that most of the things were really coming back to the lane of sexual assault.

Salina: And the reason I find that of interest is because really, Mary Joe was mugged.

Salina: She wasn't sexually assaulted.

Salina: So it's not really easy to find just mugging statistics.

Salina: But in all fairness, I don't think mugging is primarily what women are taught to fear.

Salina: We've talked before, and even in this episode, how the fear of rape, at least for some women, is really baked into the experience of being a woman.

Salina: So for that reason, I thought it might make sense anyway to broaden our data search to more than just mugging.

Salina: So I found what are known as violent victimization data, and this includes rape or sexual assault, robbery, aggravated assault, and simple assault.

Salina: And these are statistics from a report developed within the Department of justice and more specifically by the Bureau of Justice Statistics.

Salina: And it estimates criminal victimizations reported and not reported to police from what is known as the National Crime Victimization Survey.

Salina: You can wake up now.

Salina: I've given my data disclaimer in the vein of not fear mongering.

Salina: I think it's really important to understand or to know that the number of victimizations in the country has dropped dramatically since the early 90s, which is close to where we are in the life of the show.

Salina: We're in 1989, it's like a fourth of what it used to be.

Salina: So from a rate of 79.8 violent victimizations per 1000 persons in 93 to 16.5 in 2021 hey, progress.

Salina: Woo.

Salina: So in 2021, there were about 4.4 million violent incidents in the US.

Salina: And 2.7 million people who experienced one or more violent crimes in 2021.

Salina: So again, violent incidents.

Salina: And there's so many more because one person could have experienced several violent incidents.

Nikki: That's terrible.

Salina: I know that does sound very this sounds and is not great.

Salina: So let's try and give these numbers a little bit of context though, because in my opinion, once we start talking about in the million, like, what does that even mean to people?

Salina: So I did some math.

Nikki: All right, this is going to go well.

Salina: There could be no problems.

Salina: So by my calculations, that's a violent act about every 7 seconds.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Now, this is what I did.

Salina: You can tell me if you feel like this makes sense or not.

Salina: Here we go with the math.

Nikki: Questionable, maybe.

Salina: So I took the number of violent acts, and then I divided them by the number of seconds in a year.

Nikki: I don't know.

Salina: It just seemed to make sense.

Salina: So, guys, either way, you have the larger ones, then you have Salina math.

Salina: You do what you need to do.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: 2.7 million people, though, which is the actual data that shakes out to about roughly 1% of the population.

Salina: So I wouldn't classify that as super common, like, in the grand scheme of things, but that's still millions of people affected, and I don't want to take away from that.

Salina: I also don't want to blow the situation out of proportion.

Nikki: Right.

Salina: But because the show mentioned sexual assault specifically and because that's definitely in the mix of concerns, let's cover those data specifically as well.

Salina: According to the Rape, Abuse, and Incest national networker Rain, every 68 seconds, another American is sexually assaulted.

Salina: One out of six American women has been affected by either an attempted or completed rape in her lifetime.

Salina: One in 33 men.

Salina: And I think that's a big difference between the conversation then and now.

Salina: We didn't include men in the equation, and we should.

Salina: This is something that we talked about in our season one finale, so I won't spend a lot of time on that, but I do feel like that's worth mentioning.

Salina: Again, rain also breaks down the location where assaults occur, and that feels very relevant to this conversation.

Salina: 55% are near excuse me, are at or near the person's home.

Salina: 15% are in an open public space.

Salina: 12% are at or near a relative's home.

Salina: 10% are in an enclosed but public area, like a parking lot or garage, and 8% are on a school property.

Nikki: Oh, my.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: Quick clarification.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: On a school property.

Nikki: Do you think that counts as college campuses?

Salina: I'm guessing it's college or younger.

Nikki: I'm imagining most of it's happening in.

Salina: The colleges, though, probably because I feel like there's way less supervision.

Salina: Right.

Salina: I mean, you need a hall pass to go to the bathroom.

Nikki: Right.

Salina: But also, like, I'm sure stuff happens.

Nikki: Oh, for sure.

Salina: So they also break down what the survivor was doing when the crime occurred.

Salina: I'm not going to run through all of those things, but it's worth mentioning that nearly a third were traveling to and from work or school or traveling to shop or run errands.

Salina: That feels resonant with this episode.

Salina: So I thought that we'd also covered some anecdotal cases.

Salina: I think these types of these are fairly violent acts.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: And I want to share that these are infrequent on the whole, but they do happen.

Salina: Atlanta has been rocked over a few incidents that have occurred in the last year or so.

Salina: One was a 40 year old woman who, along with her dog, was brutally attacked and killed in Piedmont Park.

Salina: She went to walk the dog after dinner and then she never came home.

Salina: The case is still under active investigation and no one has been caught.

Salina: Another woman leaving a bartending shift was forced into a car where a person tried to rape her and then shot and killed her.

Salina: She was 27 in this case.

Salina: The person suspected of the murder was indicted this year in Tennessee.

Salina: You told me about this one, Nikki.

Salina: I actually hadn't heard of it, but there was a 34 year old woman, a mother and a teacher who was kidnapped while jogging early in the morning, and her body was found three days later.

Salina: I share these not to freak anyone out, but to be aware that, yes, there are a lot of good people out there.

Salina: And I believe that there is more good people than bad, I truly do.

Salina: But there are bad people and they have bad intentions.

Salina: So it's important that we have the tools required to stay safe.

Salina: And I would be remiss to not mention the icing on the cake.

Salina: And we alluded to this in the episode, but victim blaming the Internet never short on opinions or aholes had much to say about when these women were out, the fact that they were alone and even what they were wearing in the case of the woman in Tennessee.

Salina: And you were talking a little bit about this early on, nikki but men are not taught that they should go out in groups.

Salina: Men are not taught that their wardrobe could be dangerous.

Salina: Certainly men are not blamed for either.

Salina: Women are.

Salina: And it's very unfair.

Salina: I'd argue that we need a culture shift.

Salina: We need to focus on teaching everyone what it means to be a safer runner, what it means to be a safer hiker.

Salina: Everyone, no matter what gender you are, can benefit from safety tips.

Salina: And I'm going to stop there just to make sure that I'm not running on too quickly.

Salina: If there's anything that you want to add, I know that you're an athlete.

Salina: You did triathlons and you ran races and you did a lot of those things.

Salina: And sometimes, guess what?

Salina: We have vaginas and we have to go run by ourselves.

Nikki: Yeah, I mean, I think that's so unfortunate.

Nikki: And that line of unfair and practical is really blurry sometimes and it overlaps at times.

Nikki: And that particular incident of the jogger in Tennessee, there was a lot of feedback online that, to your point, like, she was wearing a sports bra and how dare she be out letting her whole body hang out in a sports bra?

Nikki: Never you mind.

Nikki: It's summer in the south and she's running and now he wants to live.

Nikki: That's comfort, right?

Nikki: Also, she was a mother.

Nikki: And one of the things that really resonated with me as I read these really horrible comments, which is a thing you shouldn't do.

Nikki: But I also think it's important to keep the pulse on what people are thinking.

Nikki: People are like, how dare she be out before it's sunlight?

Nikki: And as a mom, as any person, as a person with a schedule, you don't always get a choice in those things.

Nikki: I feel it particularly acutely because I also am a mom and I work out between the five and 06:00 hour most days or before seven before the sun's up.

Nikki: I'm usually working out.

Nikki: I do tend to work out indoors because it's scary to be out after dark.

Nikki: But I also think that it's one thing to say it's practical to try not to work out by yourself in the dark without safety measures, but also, let's not accept that world.

Nikki: Let's not make that normal and that's a blurry line.

Nikki: And when I was more of an endurance athlete and I did a lot more exercise outdoors, I had a few scary incidents where I want to live my life and I don't want to run with a Taser, for instance.

Nikki: I don't think that's fair.

Nikki: But my parents ended up buying me one because they were so afraid of me being out on these trails by myself.

Nikki: And there was one incident when I was doing the Silver Comet Trail, riding my bike, where it started to rain and it got super dark and I had to go under a tunnel and sit for a minute just to let the rain die down a little bit.

Nikki: And it was very dark and it was very scary for me, and I was by myself.

Nikki: And so in that moment, I was like, I should have been prepared a little bit more because I was completely defenseless.

Nikki: But also, it sucks that I live in a world where I have to be defenseful when I'm just trying to ride my bike.

Nikki: That just sucks.

Salina: It does.

Nikki: And so that runner in Tennessee, I think, really ignited a lot of emotion from moms, females, female athletes, anyone who feels like they've been victimized just for living their life, being athletic.

Nikki: And it was really sad.

Nikki: Some of the perspectives that people have on that.

Nikki: Like her sports bra really brought it on her.

Salina: Yeah, that sucks.

Salina: Yeah, it really does.

Salina: I think this is why it's just so important that we, again, awareness and knowing what you can do to make yourself safer.

Salina: Like if you are in a situation where you need to run early in the morning or whatever the case is.

Salina: So I ran across a Reader's Digest article where Muggers gave advice about how to outsmart them.

Salina: Cool.

Nikki: Public service?

Salina: I don't know, but I wanted to highlight some of those points from it.

Salina: And I think some of these are probably common sense.

Salina: But again, it never hurts to slow down and think about it.

Salina: So don't walk around alone.

Salina: This was the first thing, and this isn't necessarily about being out to be like athletic or whatever for your health, but so don't walk around alone.

Salina: This was the first thing one mugger looked for before anything else.

Salina: Their gender, their physical build or their age.

Salina: So just an easy target, right?

Salina: Avoid desolate areas.

Salina: Sometimes you have to walk alone.

Salina: That's life.

Salina: But try and stick to well at areas with some people around.

Salina: Nighttime is prime time.

Salina: Areas with nightlife are more likely to attract muggers.

Salina: And then don't walk around when you're alone.

Salina: When you're intoxicated.

Salina: Walk around in groups when you're intoxicated, but that is really dangerous.

Salina: Be wary of strangers asking for the time and directions.

Salina: There's a couple of things happening all at once.

Salina: So they're catching you off guard in both of these scenarios.

Salina: And then in that second one they might be trying to assess the value of your watch, which might indicate the value of other things that you have on you.

Salina: Their suggestion is to give directions from a safe distance.

Salina: And that's pretty much what I lived in downtown.

Salina: My other method was not knowing where I was.

Salina: Anytime can't help you, man.

Salina: I don't know where I'm at.

Salina: Sorry.

Nikki: I probably wouldn't admit that to too many muggers.

Salina: Why?

Salina: There's just people in general I'm like, I don't know.

Salina: Well, I'll be like, where's Courtland Street?

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: Then like 2 seconds later I'd be like oh crap, I'm at Courtland Street.

Salina: I pass it by every day.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: So if you are mugged, comply to them taking your stuff, just let that.

Nikki: None of it's worth it.

Nikki: No, none of it's worth it.

Salina: Because one thing to keep in mind and I thought like and this again is where I'm talking about like it is logical, but we're not thinking about this on a daily basis.

Salina: They're already desperate and willing to do something violent.

Salina: They're already to that point.

Salina: So fighting back may only escalate the situation which you really don't want.

Salina: I ran across another article that outlined ways to be your own bodyguard.

Salina: A couple of good tips there one expert suggested carrying what they call muggers money.

Salina: So you keep it in a wallet separate from other valuables or in an outside pocket where you can quickly access it if approached, hand it over.

Salina: And this would be if you're somewhere like where a robbery is more likely to take place.

Salina: Not necessarily just because you're running up to kroger.

Salina: I don't know unless your kroger is bad.

Salina: And I have lived some bad krogers myself.

Salina: So they suggest one I'm sure we've all heard before, yell fire and not help because you're more likely to get help from the latter.

Salina: It's just a really good explanation of people.

Salina: I was thinking based on the best.

Nikki: I was thinking I'm in danger, right?

Salina: This is also like a little escalated, but they had some tips for anyone who might be involved in a potential rape.

Salina: I'm going to link to the article because it just does feel like we're really getting into the weeds here.

Salina: I'm just going to share one for time.

Salina: Note his disguise.

Salina: I'm going to say note his disguise was what the article said.

Salina: I would probably say note their disguise.

Salina: That's just me.

Salina: But anyways, a mask indicates that they're planning to leave you alive.

Salina: They don't want you to be able to describe them to the police.

Salina: On the flip side, no mask means the situation might be more dangerous.

Salina: In that case, you should consider taking on more risk to escape.

Salina: I was telling Nikki about this article and again, it's Reader's Digest.

Salina: I think it's like law enforcement who are giving this guidance.

Salina: So I don't want you to think it's just like Joe down the street a mugger, right?

Salina: Oh, yeah.

Salina: We switched on from the mugger article, to be clear.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: The Metropolitan Police in DC also had a really good list of tips, so we'll link to those.

Salina: I think the main things are this, again, I cannot stress this enough.

Salina: Be aware, be aware.

Salina: Be aware both of your surroundings and the people in them.

Salina: Really?

Salina: I think most people walk around in a fog.

Nikki: Honestly, they do for sure after dark.

Nikki: You cannot afford that.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: You're a hyper aware person, I've noticed that.

Salina: But you need to be.

Salina: I will say that I am more hyper aware when I'm by myself.

Salina: Depending on who I'm with, I might lapse out a little bit, which is probably not the best.

Salina: So similar to the episode, self defense classes are also an option.

Salina: I just Googled and like, a lot of stuff came up.

Salina: But it feels worth saying in this situation that if you're going to go that route and just randomly search things, like obviously vet whoever you're meeting with and where you're going.

Nikki: Don't find a self defense on Craigslist where the person says, I want to.

Salina: Meet you in a motel.

Nikki: Yeah, like exercise a dark corner of a parking lot.

Salina: Right.

Salina: So very well.

Salina: Fit named the seven best online self defense classes of 2022.

Salina: So we'll link to those as well.

Salina: And there are online free defense classes.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: So for those in the Atlanta area, my friend actually arranged a self defense class for bartenders that she worked with.

Salina: She had actually met the 27 year old woman who died.

Salina: So we can share his contact information as well.

Salina: But his name is Robert Lowry.

Salina: He and his wife run the course together.

Salina: She said it was really good and very informative.

Salina: The tip that made me the most sad was that you're really not supposed to wear my favorite and go to type of bag, which is the cross body bag over.

Nikki: Really?

Salina: It's funny, right?

Salina: Because you think of that as giving you control to make sure they can't grab your money.

Nikki: You want it to be quick release.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: They just use you and run you around with the bag.

Nikki: That makes sense.

Salina: I know.

Nikki: Logically that makes sense, right?

Salina: So those are the kinds of tips, though that you can expect to get from Robert and his wife.

Salina: So we'll share that information as well.

Salina: I really hope that you all found.

Nikki: This segment helpful and empowering.

Salina: That too.

Salina: That's the thing.

Salina: We all have to be able to feel like you're worth it.

Salina: You matter to take care of yourself.

Salina: Be aware, be prepared.

Salina: And that's this week's extra sugar.


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