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Designing Women S3 E4 - A Little Long on Drywall, And A Little Short On Studs

Updated: Apr 9, 2023

Cue the wedding bells: Bernice is getting married, and to a local “celebrity” no less. But our gals are preoccupied with other things: they all hate their “wedding costumes”, Suzanne is PMS-ing again, and Julia is stark-raving mad about another news article hatin’ on Southerners.

Stick around for this week’s “Extra Sugar”, where we play a word association game about Southern traditions.

Extra reads:

Come on, let’s get into it!



Hey, Nikki.

Hey Salina, how are you?

Good, good, good.

I got a little more energy this time.


And hello, sweetie and TV.

Oh, hi, sweetie Pe people.

Why don't you call them sweeties?

But we just adopt that name because we've never said that we do that.

Oh, you guys are sweeties now.

But can we at least explain what that means if you're gonna do that?

We can?


So it's supposed to be like self explanatory.

Well, I don't know.

Not necessarily because then I got confused when it doesn't matter.

It's like because it's sweet tea.

Then you're the sweet teas.

But when you say it real fast, it's like, oh sweetie, which is also Southern.

I feel like that has a lot of nuance.

There's a lot of layers to that.

It's a very thought out nickname.

Well, and also you like, I think that listeners sometimes nickname themselves.

So I want to be very clear or careful.

Well, I want to be very careful that we're not putting something on other people.

Could someone suggest that they'd love to be called the sweeties so that we can call them the sweeties or like if you have another name that you would prefer, of course we understand that I might not use it but because I mean, you know how I feel about things like being called.

So you love it.

Not in the hate if your nickname or your name is Sal, I support you should stand by you.

Yeah, but please don't call me, Sal, don't put your stuff on me.


Don't put your name.

Me being called Nikki C K.

I, it drives me crazy.

Yeah, people are like, how's that spelled C K I, and I'm like, no, that's not the right way to spell it.

It is interesting because I do feel like sometimes, uh, name spellings come with personalities, I think, I think that's 100% true.


Like Nikki with a Y there's, that's a totally different Nicki than me with an I Salina with ac, I don't know who that is and don't say Celine Dion because there's no at the end of the name.

So it's a different name.

A different, wonderful.

Don't say Celine Dion because that's not my name.


Well, I, people used to call me Celine Dion when I was younger.

Oh, yeah.

Not because I have anything in the realm.

It's just annoying.

It has nothing to do with your name.

Well, I mean, I am a French Canadian singer, right?

And you are the good a singer in the world and, and people do just love to hear me vocalize.

Um But yeah, so I digress anyways it, you know, so we could, we could use that name.

But, you know, we just want to make sure that people are comfortable with it.


Hey, y'all, welcome to the show this week and think he's out.

I'm done.

I can't call him sweetie.

I'm leaving.

I'm done with you.

Well, what if I told you before we get started?

That I did actually, um we had a lingering question.

What was the lingering question?

Remember the Peabody Ducks?

Yes, that we talked about.


Just real quickly in case anybody skipped the last episode or you're tuning in for the first time.

The Peabody is a hotel, a very, very well known established classic Hotel in Memphis.

And um we covered that in unknown references for me.

At least it was unknown for me.

Uh But they have like the little cute ducks that march into and out of the lobby twice a day.

This is something they've done for years and years and years.


So when we recorded, you said it was hard to find out how many generations of ducks they've been through.

So I have an answer because I looked a little deeper into it.

So I thought I had read this at the time, but I didn't want to be like on the show being like, well, 17 45 you know, and doing all that.

So I went back and Um OK, so the tradition starts in 1933.

There are these Peabody ambassadors.


Which also I feel like I also need to say, let's get, let's give these ducks some credits.

There's one Drake and four hens.

Um They're raised by a local farmer and a friend of the hotel just so we get a little, little understanding of who these ducks are.

Um Each team lives in the hotel for only three months before they're retired from their peabody duties.

So these ducks aren't like, I think the implication we talked last time is they're like working there until pain of death.

And I want to be very clear that there's no animal cruelty going on.

I'm glad you clarified that.

So, so typically what happens after those three months is they're returned to the farm to live their days as wild ducks.

And so they only are really living at the hotel for a very short time.

So there's 83 years, times four teams of Ducks each year.

That's 332 different teams.

It would be, let me tell you how seriously I took this.

It would be 89 years, but you brought up that the hotel was closed, the hotel was closed between 75 and 1981.

Therefore, that's why we got to 83 years.

Therefore, that's why we got to four teams of ducks each year.

Hello, 332 teams of Ducks whoa, I'm gonna need to see your math on that.

Well, you can see my math and you just show me your Work 83 times four.

Wow, that's like speaking of layers, that's a lot of layers of rationalization and like processing.

And I feel like I've earned myself a trip to go see these ducks.

I know at the very least you should see them.

Now, after all that work.

Well, and I also looked up, like I almost said, like a percentage to say, well, how much is three months of a duck's life?

Because for three months, I'm just saying, isn't a lot for us but they live only 5 to 10 years.

So really, that's like, I guess that tracks like a dog that's like substantial.


So there you go.

Peabody Ducks.

I wasn't prepared for you to circle back on something because I also had something to circle back on.

Is it the Peabody Ducks?

It's not, it's the Leave it to Beaver movie with Eric Von De?

I knew in episode two.

You, I think you brought up Leave It to Beaver.

And I was like, wasn't there a movie about that kind of like the Brady Bunch movie that was remade in the nineties?

There was, there was a Leave It To Beaver movie.

I used to love it because I thought Wally was so attractive because Wally Eric Von Dutton.


I feel like you're gonna need to tell people I don't think I need to tell people anything more than that.

I'm pretty sure everyone's going to know, please D M us everyone and tell Nikki how, uh, I mean, no offense to Mr, I'm sorry, what's his name again?

Mr Von de Eric Von De that while we loved him in Princess Diaries.

That's who it is.


Oh, is he in Princess Diaries?

Because I remember him from Heaven and Star.

I wasn't prepared to give this update today.

I'm sorry, I remember him from Brink on Disney, an original, a Disney channel original movie where he played an in line skater uh in the mid nineties and he's gorgeous.

Um He looks like the kid that played Casper Devin.


So he's a very Devin.

So this is a very millennial discussion.

If you're not a millennial, you will have to Google him and or Salina will have to share a picture of him on social media.

Along with this episode.

Devin saw was also he was very much the tiger beat heart job for a while for, for, for women our age.

But it, when we were girls and so Eric Von Dutton did not make it quite to that level, but it was in the leave it to Beaver movie, which I really loved.

Apparently it did not do well.


They had it, they had it ready.

They were ready for at least one sequel.

They had the whole cast signed to come back for a sequel but it performed so poorly.

They canceled the sequel which makes me sad because I enjoy the play Wally.





Uh So this kid, um I think so who he was in the Princess Diaries for people who are very interested in?

Mr, what's his name one more time?

Eric Von De Mr Von Denton.

He played the high schooler who was kind of a jerk or really a jerk that Anne Hathaway character is like in love with in that very high school way and like is trying to get with towards the beginning of the movie before she becomes like a, like a princess.

I keep hitting my mic with my hat.

I'm sorry about that.

Yes, that would be Mr Eric B.


He was also in Toy Story.

He played Sid A torturous kid.

He was wally Cleaver in the 97 film leave it to Beaver.

And he was in 98, the lead character in the movie Brink.

Well, there you go.

Anyhow, that was my, my very important follow up.

No, that's good.

That's good.

I got one more thing that I want to talk about before we jump into the episode.

I want to bring up something that's gonna date the episode, but I think it's really important as Southerners.



It is National Buttermilk Biscuit Day.

It is May 14th when you hear this, it will no longer be May 14th, but I just wanted to give a quick shout out for biscuits and how much I love them biscuits everywhere.

All biscuits.

What's your favorite biscuit?


It's a hard question.

I know.

I, I think I told you probably on one of our last episodes, Hardy's biscuits.


We did talk about Hardy's biscuits.

Not that long.

My very favorite biscuit in the whole world was my grandmother's biscuits.


Which we also talked about, sorry, try to find it.

I said I'm not gonna give up.

We'll see what happens, we'll see what happens.


Red band flour.

You know, some, the thing that's really annoying about that is someone, has it, someone has that.

It's in someone's recipe box or book or whatever.


I even, whoever bought them, I even tagged that company to see if they, yeah.

But, you know, apparently they think they're post, they think they're too big for us.

Go or whoever it is.

I can't even Pillsbury.

Maybe whoever bought them.

I can't remember.

Um, but, yeah, so, no, but so Hardy, that's fine.

But, like, like, how do you like your biscuit?

Like, if you, you're only getting your biscuit one way?

Like, do you want it?

Just pure, just butter?



Like how do I want it made?

You know what?

I've been eating them with honey more lately.

So good.

I got that big giant jar of Georgia, um, harvested honey from Costco and that's how I've been eating them for a long time.

It was, um, butter melted on with, um, strawberry jam is my other favorite.

So of the two, I would pick either honey or strawberry jam.

What about strawberry and honey?

Oh, you, you blow my mind.

I haven't tried that.

Oh, you got to?

I haven't tried that.

Yeah, I don't care.

I like grape jelly just fine.

But on a biscuit I, it has to be strawberry jam.

It has a certain sum.

I also feel like just on this note, Cracker Barrel and like any restaurant really?

I noticed it at Cracker Barrel.

They are really stingy with the strawberry jam and, or it's the most popular flavor because when you look in the little jam section, they have tons of grape.

They have tons of apple butter, which I don't care for.

But no strawberry jam.

I don't care for apple.

I mean, like if I'm picking between grape, strawberry and apple butter, I'm gonna pick strawberry, then I'm gonna go grape and then I'll do apple butter.

See, I'm gonna have three biscuits, one of each.

How do you like your biscuit?

Uh So, you know, I like them all the ways like you can't, although I will say like sometimes there's some really cool places that I don't feel like we get enough of.


This is, I know we have Callie's here and Callie's is great.

I still haven't had Callie's.

Well, so what I will say is like we, what we don't have is like a biscuit head and we don't have like a vicious biscuits, which I want to, like, shout out both of them, which are amazing because when you go in there they have a jam and jelly bar.


You know, I mean, there's something so special about that, like, because there's so many choices and you just get so excited and like, you can get all kinds of fantastic things.

And they do have like, um, you know, I almost just say where it's, it's almost teetering over into the ridiculous, but the kind of ridiculous you just have to try.

Ok, so it's a biscuit.

But then we're gonna put fried chicken on it, then we're gonna put some Pimento cheese on top of that, then we're gonna crack an egg over it and, and then we're gonna put gravy on top of it and I'm like, yes and bacon, of course, of course.

But at the end of the day, the truth is, is I just want a regular biscuit just by itself with some honey on top, maybe like some butter.

But that's it.

Like, I, I want one of those fantastic, ridiculous mythical things I just described.

You know, that is like you have it, but you can really only have a couple bites because you're right.

This is too much, but it's also wonderful and everything I need it.

And then I just need that simplistic buttery.

Beautiful biscuit.

I hear myself.

Do you know, actually, uh I, this may be anti Southern to me.

I actually think Pillsbury, like in the um blue can, those are actually really delicious biscuits Southern home style.


Well, if we're going this route, I'm like, uh we used to cover designing women.

Now we're a biscuit podcast.

So I, what I will say is that the Pillsbury frozen buttermilk biscuits are hands down one of the very top premade biscuits that you can get next to that.


W if you ever hear this, this is Casey's uncle.

You hands down make the best biscuits that I've ever had.

Oh, that's a huge honor.

They're so good.

And he and his wife Angela, um Casey's aunt, um who I love dearly.

Um I love them both dearly.

But uh they made a video years ago that I'll have to show you where he dressed in just over all, like no shirt underneath and she dressed up to and they did a video making the biscuits and then, but like put on their thickest southern accents.

Oh Lord.

And, and do a whole thing and they did it.

So one of their friends to teach one of their friends how to make biscuits.

But then um they wound up putting on youtube because I thought it was funny and it is hilarious.

Um And so that does live out there in the world.

So I'll have to show that to you sometime.

It also incidentally will teach you how to make the world's best biscuits.

Oh, dang.

Yeah, I need to see that.

And then my last thing that I'll say, although I want you to say whatever else you want to say about biscuits is that today?

I am wearing my son of a biscuit shirt, which is incidentally my favorite saying.

And also a t-shirt that I got from vicious biscuits.

I've never heard of vicious biscuits.

I've heard of the other one.

You said we biscuit head biscuit head.

Yeah, we had that in um Asheville.



Look, say Charlotte.

That wasn't right.


I don't know much but I visit places.

Yeah, we went when we went to um it's not actually in Charleston.

I think it's in Charlottesville or there's definitely one in Charlottesville.

But when we went to Charleston last year, there's one in that vicinity.


Um And uh and we've tagged them in some photos and um they're always very gracious and share it with their followers as well.

And I don't know anyways, but any time you find that symbiosis on Instagram, all I'm saying is it's nice, a rough spot for you.

That's all I'm saying.

And beyond that, we're a Southern podcast who's also covering designing women.

So, should we do that?

We should.


So this week we are on to season three, episode 4.


Getting married and eating dirt.

That's the one the women of sugar bakers are shocked when their eccentric friend, Bernice becomes engaged to marry a man with a slight problem.

He proposes to every woman he meets this one aired on December five, We are calling it a little long on drywall and a little short on studs.


I love that so much is written by L BT directed by David Trainor.

You ready?

I'm ready.

Any general reactions you wanna share?

Why couldn't L BT give Bernice this wedding?

Yeah, that was my first reaction.

She let Suzanne find her financial footing, gambling in the casino.

And those are some slim odds.

So, could we not just bring these two kids together officially?

Oh, it doesn't matter.

But that was one thing that I really kind of, I was just curious about.

That's a good question.

Yeah, I think, are they afraid that she wouldn't be free enough to, like I was just about to say that I don't know what's coming.

I mean, I know what's coming this season because I've previewed it.

But like in future seasons, I still only tangentially sort of like, abstractly know what's going to happen with characters.

So I don't know what's going to happen with Bernice, but we don't want her tied down to a man because we need her free to do all the things we need eccentric Bernice to do.

How anti feminist of me, feminist.

I'm trying to get that word out.


Sounds like some kind of, what do you mean anti woman?


I didn't even mean for her to be that way.

I just, like, if that was going to be her happy moment and that's what's going to make her happy.

Like, why couldn't the lady have it?

But I don't care as long as we get Bernice, that's all I care about.

I think it feeds into my general reaction, which is just Bernice.

Like I want her, I want her free.

I want her ready to go.

You still want 100 like I like you had a good time gal.

I liked this episode a lot.

I just anything Bernice is just 100% for me.

My question about the episode, I'm confused about the plot.


So does eve forget that he proposes to these women or does he just do it for kicks?

Because in the end of the episode, he said, or like middle of the episode, he said he didn't know he was getting married but at the end of the episode, he seems to know this is a quote unquote problem that he has.

So which is it?

Well, I think it like if you're if you are truly a 12th Tom, you know, then I think it could be both.

So like sometimes he remembers but other times he forgets it may not be the most locked up plot.

I think this is what I feel like this is what we're both saying, yeah, concerns.

But I just, like, I was going along with it.

I was like, oh, ok.


And then when he was, like, when he came in with his friend and sort of acknowledged that this is a problem he has.

I was like, wait a minute, I thought he was a 12th Tom who forgot or like, why didn't they bring back the guy with the Packard car that she was kind of dating in the last season for like, four, first, two seconds.

They went on a picnic.

A K A, he was in love with her.


But like, you get the same thing because he, he's like, I don't know, some people might call it a little off the bame, you know.

But like we just, I don't know.

So I thought that was another way you could have done that.

And then I think we already kind of know he, he was like a little out there just like Bernice says we didn't have to bring in this new character.

Not that I didn't like Vern we'll get there.

But I, I don't know.

I like him better.

Vern the guy from last season.

What's his name?


I called him just a second ago.

Dang it, it's, I don't know why he's a fern.

Seems like a fern plots.

Um, another thing that I had was, I think the episode put too much energy into the b plot.

The eating dirt thing.


And, and while it is frustrating for the media to treat Southerners condescendingly.

And obviously, we're a Southern podcast.

That's something that we're looking to explore.

I just also thought that Julia's reaction to the whole thing was kind of outsized.

So I have, um, a lot of thoughts on that and actually, that's, this week's extra sugar is gonna address this eating dirt thing.

Um, and I can share a little bit more with that.

I agree with you.

It was a little over the top and spoiler alert.

It actually is something people do in the south.


But yeah, her reaction was a little over the top and on that note.

Um, so when she talks to, uh, his secretary to that reporter secretary, um, she lists off some different foods that Southerners are known to eat.

She talks about grits, homemade biscuits and gravy, fried chicken barbecue, cornbread, watermelon, fried pies.

If you were to put that list in some sort of order for yourself of your favorite foods.

What, what rises to the top for you?

Oh, biscuit is bis.

It's biscuit.

What would you put at the bottom?

I'm sorry.

Can you read the one more time?


Biscuits and gravy, fried chicken, barbecue, cornbread, watermelon and fried pies.

I don't want you to hate me.

Uh, oh, I think it's watermelon.


Just out of that whole list.

How it's hard for you or how good for me.

I'd put watermelon at the top.

That's so funny that you're like, and you think we're too much alike.

Look at the diversity we're bringing to this podcast right now.

Good point.

Diversity of food.

So, yeah, that's a good point.

This is why we make a good pair.

That's the same reason Kyle and I are married.

If I weren't married to Kyle, I'd be married to you because I am married to him so that I can eat the stuff he doesn't like.

That's really what it's all about.

That is everything that's about.

Except that's a problem with Casey and our, in my relationship.

Oh, everything, everything.


Yeah, pretty much should have chosen a pickier eater, you know, fried pies.

Probably rise to the top for you.

No, not really.

They're way down on the bottom for me.

Yeah, same the same.

It's like, uh, but I think we actually talked about this too in a previous extra sugar.

We wound up talking about fried pies.

I was talking about, uh, and so I, but I do like their pecan one.

There's just no fruit in it.


And then I'm like, I felt like I don't need anyone to and, and I know some people are like, shut up Salina, we just like fruit in our ex dessert.

But I, to me it feels like if I eat fruit, I just want to eat fruit.

If I eat dessert, I just want to eat dessert.

So, I don't need, like, it doesn't make me feel better about myself to be like, oh, well, there were peaches in that Cobb bar, you know, I just want the Cobb bar, the cob or the lure.

I don't know which one it is.

Clearly wanted to be both.


But that's a good question.

That's, I like that question.

It just struck me.

Do you have any other general reaction?

I just have one more.


It feels like we're recycling some old plots already.

Oh, dang, you're coming in hot today.

So this is not the first time we've seen Julia Rage over a news article disparaging the South.

We've done that at least once or twice.

Probably the New York Times.

Yes, generally not.


Nor is it the first time we've seen Suzanne suffer at the hands of premenstrual syndrome?

So there was something about those and like the pairing of it, it just felt to me like we've been here before and the story didn't even feel that different enough that I was like, hm.

So which leads that we are just like we're on it today because that leads me to my last general reaction.

I want to have a conversation about P MS and about using that as an explanation or an explainer for a woman's behavior.

Where are we on that?

Is this society or in this, in this room?

I know I know where society is on it.

I it, it strikes me that this is one of those situations where um I think in season one, there was an episode where we were recording where you said something along the lines of like, you can't talk about my mama, but I can talk about my mama.

And so this feels like a woman thing where like I could say like, hey Salina, you may be P MS in this week because your emotions feel outsized, it feels like maybe I could say that, but even that feels inappropriate.

And so I was just kind of, I think I was a little ruffled when Mary Joe was like, just ignore her.

She's PM sing.

I think I was a little miffed.

I was just curious how you felt.

If anything, I think the first thing I'm gonna go and I'm going to share my gut reaction is that like, I'm a pro choice kind of gal and I choose in a few situations just saying, but I choose for people who experience P MS to do with it, what they will.

So if you want to use P MS to explain yourself in a certain situation, then I'm all for it.

If you feel like that has nothing to do with what's going on with you in a given moment and you're just experiencing a human emotion.

And so bugger off, I'm OK with that too.

And so people shouldn't put your like, I shouldn't say, hey Salina, you're being kind of mean this week, I don't have any problem with someone who experiences P MS saying that to me.

If you have a penis, please do not say that to me.


So we're on the same page.



And so you weren't miffed at all when Mary Jo did that, I was, I was even a little miffed with Mary Jo doing it, but maybe she's not my friend.

Did it feel like they were trying to do a call back though and talking about these circular plots?

Like we've been here guys.

That's what it kind of felt like a good point.

That's a good point.

So that's kind of how I took it.

But I, I understand what you're saying.

I do also think like, I, I think it would be degrees.

So if like, like you and I are close, I've got zero problem or even if I did have a problem, I'd be like, you better watch it today, you know, and I would just be honest with you, I probably wouldn't say it like that.

But you know what I'm saying?

Then there's the degree of like coworkers because someone that also has P MS that works with us came and they were like, somebody's on their Menzies.

Yeah, I'd be pretty annoyed with that.

Probably give him the middle finger for a few reasons.

I would also be really shocked if someone did die.

That what you just said, You know how people are always saying that it does sound kind of southern and 60s southern on your your minstrel sale.

So that's my, as you're saying that thank you.

Thank you for addressing my question because it just was bothering me as you were saying that I was a little surprised that Bernice told Eve that Suzanne was on her, was experiencing P MS because I do feel like that's a thing an older generation would not have talked about.

She would have said something coded like Suzanne's experiencing some lady time trouble, but it was Bernice who said it?

And then the last thing I'll say in all of this is I would never presume that someone's grouchy because they're PM sing because I routinely forget that's a thing that happens even though it happens to me.

I never know when my lady time is coming.

We talk about that all the, all the time.

Yeah, I have no clue what's going on until I've murdered someone.

And then I find out, oh, that's right.

You're just raging for like, I don't know a number of days you feel like every day, maybe, maybe not, you'll tear off your own facial flesh and then it happens and you go, oh, I feel better now.

Oh my God.


Thank you.

Thank you dear baby Jesus for blessing me with a uterus that sheds its lining once a month.

It's wonderful.

Oh, how scientific.

All right.

Well, thank you for taking that journey on um, general reactions.

And I'm like, well, that seems like a really good segue into stray observation.

I know all of my general reactions are also kind of stray observation.

I got fashion notes this week.

Oh, I feel like we're always railing on poor Mary Jo.

But she had a really nice little yellow number.

Yeah, she looks good in the mustard.

She looks really good.

It's something with the hair.

It's the reds and the pales.

Let me tell you why.

I know.

Oh, I'm really that familiar with the, I'll also say Julia has a very signature style and it's not just the pencil skirts.

It's this bet.

Oh, she's a million of them every and so I've tried Googling to see if that was a specific style or a specific designer.

I guess it must have been something specific they were putting her in.

Um So anyway, I wanted to mention that it's like a, it's like a crossover belt situation.

Hopefully we can share on social media.

So I'm not just showing you pictures that mean nothing to people.

It would be crazy not to address the costumes, the wedding costumes.

I didn't call them wedding outfits or like whatever wedding costumes.

They weren't giving you vibes.

They were giving me vibes.

Oh, very specific vibes.

Very specific vibes.


What I see?


I don't know what you see.

It makes me think it's still Magne is oh dang.

But this would have been a blush and bashful.

Yeah, but it's of the same time period.

So I think this is 88.

That's right.

So, No, is 89.

So, and they would have been filming in 88 for an 89 movie.

So all I could hear was Julia Roberts saying my colors are blush and back and all I could hear was Sally Field saying her colors are pink and pink.

That's a good point.

What about Anthony's pimp outfit?

I loved it.

I did too.

I think it's, it's very fun.

Do you know what's funny though?

This might have been a funnier joke.

Hold on.

First of all the reason we're calling a pimp outfit.

That's what Julia did.


Go on.

Sorry about that.

Do you any pimps?

That's what she called it.

Um I think this joke would have been funnier.

Maybe of the time.

Can we just clip you saying sorry pimp?

Sorry about that for all the pimps listening to our show.

Um I didn't realize like this was such a joke because this is what I thought suits looked like in the 80s.

Uh Yeah, but like early eighties I think too.

I don't know that I see this seventies and late 80s.

I don't know what they were wearing as tuxedos in the late 80s, to be honest.


So everything before like my high school prom, which is really my frame of reference for tuxedos looks like that I can Tell you that.

Let's see.

I think my uncle would have graduated high school in 85.

So, and I've seen his senior prom pictures a number of times and he was basically wearing that same one, but in like a baby powder boy, baby blue, that's what my dad wore to his wedding.

So like Mid 80s, you know.

Um, so, but it feels like maybe the tide was turning in the late 80s and maybe that's part of the joke here.

But I honestly don't know.

I just took away from it.

I was supposed to laugh.


That's not what he should have looked like.

Yes, I think that's fair.

What do you have in strays?

I only have one more.

I have a few stray observations about the B plot.

So it, it is a question because that's all I do is ask questions.

Maybe I answer them sometimes, maybe I don't.

But why did this plot line get paired with Bernice's plot line?

And then my answer would be, it's also a question, but it's could the title B L bt s comment on marriage generally getting married and eating dirt.


Oh, dang.

I don't, not that I don't think from everything I've read, it has nothing to do with how I think she feels about her husband.

That's what I was just, they're super in love.


That's all I've ever read about is just that they are this perfect couple.

For whatever that means.

Um But like there's just something about that, maybe that's her general comment on marriage itself.

And I was just wondering because otherwise, like, why put these two together?

Why now and why that title anyways?

So I don't have an answer, but I'm just generally proposing.

I guess I have no answer for you.

Did you say that you had another stray or that was it?

I do tell me about it.

Charlene says Bernice is always sending them little gifts and health tips and entering them in contests.

I need more.

I need to know what the gifts are.

I need to know what the health tips are.

I need to know what kind of contests I watching the show did not have every time they bring Bernice in.

I'm always surprised by how close the women feel to her because they do not portray them as that close the rest of the time.

So that was something like you can weave that into any episode and I will watch it gladly.

I would love to see them get a fax.

I don't know a phone call from Bernice where she's saying she entered them into some sort of contest.


I wonder if they were like, trying to lay the groundwork, maybe for future episodes maybe.

Or just like that.

General like, like absurdity, like fun absurdity.

They, I don't know, they always, so every episode with Bernice I'm thinking about the one where she was in the beauty pageant, swirling and twirling with sadness in the world or whatever.

And they make a few comments the ladies do about like how they're all Bernice has in the world and how she thinks of them like her daughters.

There was something very similar said in that episode and she was like, playing them, right.

It just strikes me that they never, they never seem that close until she's back in the episode.

And then suddenly, like, we don't hear even about Bernice in the background.

But, you know, we've talked about this before and I think this is just sitcoms like Lewis Grizzard.

Will we ever hear from him or see him again?

No, but if he was to come back on the screen by goodness, we would hear about how all they do is talk about him all the time.


And I, as always, I know nothing about writing a TV show.

I know nothing about maintaining a TV show.

So this is not a judgment.

It's just, I love Bernice and I'd love to hear more of her.

I, I mean, maybe what you're stumbling onto is some fan fiction.

I get home now.

Well, we'll need something to do after we're done.

We're doing so little.

I do have one more stray as well.

Suzanne in this episode.

Her hair looks super different.

I'm showing Nikki a picture.

Um, It looks really different, like deflated.

It's not 80's big hair.

That was my first thing.

So I just want to share that this is something else memo for Salina maybe put this on social media that week so people can see or maybe folks just go watch the episode, whatever.

Um But that just looked really different to me.

And then I also, she's noticeably the only one not in a bridesmaid's dress.

I am wondering if this is related to Delta's offscreen weight gain.

It does seem like the way they deal with, not that Delta was pregnant, but it does feel like the way they deal with pregnant women, um, is to just like, put them in way oversized clothes or like they draped it, had it laying over her.

So, yeah, that's a good point.


So I thought it just kind of struck me as weird.

I saw that they were using the P MS thing as an excuse that she just didn't want to do anything.

It didn't even necessarily bother me.

I just think, um, in terms of the way that it played out in the episode, um, it didn't distract me.

I think just as the show goes on and the conversations that we're having, it's hard to not think about those things.

And I also just wanna real quickly say that like Delta Burke is a living person and I think we, I think I just want everyone to hear and understand and know that Nikki and I never want to do or say anything that would ever hurt anyone's feelings or disrespect them.

So when we talk about this, it is very much so in the vein of this is sort of what was going on in the world of the show, in the world, right outside of the show.

And then also to just say, I think, and I, if I'm gonna quickly speak for you here, OK, we're not OK with any body shaming.

No, if we're not OK with, I think that's, I think that's the reason I'm going to eventually feel very passionate about speaking about it is because I cannot believe what we do to women's bodies in the media.

I cannot believe we do it to them.

And I think it would be a stand for me and you to talk about it in this space in here to say shame on you.

Anyone who talks about women's bodies and makes it that way.

So ours is very much through that lens and not through this fascination lens of like, oh let's explore this woman's body, right?


So I just felt like we needed to take a quick, I'm trying as you're talking, I'm trying to remember.

I think it was the end of season one.

I did sort of a deep dive a little bit into what happened with Delta Burke.

Uh Not because we were ready to cover it at that point in time, but because it was relevant, maybe her relationship with L BT.

No, sorry, you're right.

You're right.

That's what it was.

And that was the extra sugar on that one.

Gaping me right now and now because you've said it, it's going to escape me, you know, dash but yeah, her marriage, Gerald mcraney.

That's right.

Thank you for that.

So I ended up doing a deep dive on her and it's also interesting, the media still does crappy things to women for sure.

But even looking back through the lens of what I'm used to seeing some of that coverage was like mind blowing how it felt appropriate in the mainstream media to talk about her body even dating back, like I watched the Britney Spears documentary, one of the documentaries a few months ago and I remember seeing this coverage as a teenager and that was just the way we talked about people and it now I'm like, why was that?


And so it's these moments in time where you actually see progress when the world feels like it's not progressing.

There is progress because there's a lot that they used to say in the media that we don't, it's not OK anymore.

There's new things, there's always new things, but it is sort of mind blowing how, how and at some point we will discuss it in more detail.

Um But yeah, I hear you so strays, right?

Um Let's talk about uh some things that we liked.

I think you really like this one.

I, I actually did like it.

So I have, I had two things.

I liked one.


Just give me a Bernice plot line any time.

But it's funny, I actually liked the B plot.

However you're making me rethink that.

Why was it paired with this one?

That's a good point.

Yeah, it was, it's not, I don't know, it just, it's not, nothing was terrible.

It's just, it, all those questions, it left me wondering or like it's that thing we've talked about before.

Could we have shifted it and spent more time with Bernice?

Uh And see what I liked about.

It was I like this idea of Southern representation on a national program and that was a relevant way to talk about.

I think what L BT might have thought were wild myths about the South.

And again, we'll get into the fact that it's really not that crazy.

Um But it wasn't part of her South.

So she was trying to say, like, you guys have this outsized view of what we're like and this character of what we're like in the South and we're not.

And it was just kind of a cool way of working into the show now, why it was part of this particular episode?

I don't know.

That's a really great question, but I actually liked that idea.

Um And, and yeah, I mean, so I do, I do love any time that we get to deep dive into something that's southern.

And I feel like for me, maybe it's because you're doing an extra sugar.

I didn't really feel like I got to look at it all that closely.

Um, and maybe I would have been, like, more excited about in the moment if I was also looking like, really closely at, um, this specific topic of what they were bringing up.

Oh, I don't know that that would have made you more excited about it.

Well, I guess we'll find out.

I think you've made a great point.

Like, it just seems irrelevant to this episode.

It feels like it could have been maybe differently placed.

I was going to say better, but again, I don't want to judge, what do I know?

What do we know?

But it could have been more relevant maybe in another episode, but I liked the, I liked it.


Um, and there are some other things I'll talk about that.

Why it did work for me.

Um, mine is also Bernice.

It's just tops.


Well, I have good grief.


Alice ghostly delivery is so good that it never gets old.

Hearing her get confused or lost in her own sentences or stories.

A it's so amazing.

Like she's this goofball but she is still so, like, sharp and like, I'm not looking at her like I look at her like comic relief but not like I feel sorry for her or like, it's some sort of like indictment on old age.

Like, I think she's still super sharp.

She's just quirky.

Maybe even cunning.





Which is fun.

Isn't that an amazing character to have developed?

And, like, it's just cool.

Well, and, and, and not that L BT doesn't have wonderful words on a page, but it's Alice Ghostly.


Um, and I mean, it, it is, I, like, I notice that with the show all the time, Another character I think who does that?

And gets sidelined a lot is Anthony like he brings those words to life a lot too and like in a way that I feel like only he can.

Um So can I share a couple of things with you that I really love that she did if you must, if you must, so her asking the gang to be flower girls and not bridesmaids.

Yes, I just love that.

Why not?

You know, whatever you want?


Uh This line just about killed me.

She says an isn't very interested in sex and, and neither am I because quite frankly I think some things get old after a while, especially if you've been the one on the bottom for the last 40 years.

Tell the person on top how great they are.

First of all, how do they go away with that line in 1980 8?

I thought about that.

Uh you know, not that I care.

I, you know, neither one of us are Pearl Collector.

I was just like, oh, my gosh, that's really, actually kind of cool.

They got away with that and I wonder if it had been any other character?

I don't know, we would have.

Uh, that's a good point.


Or something.

Got past them.

I think I watched this episode probably two times preparing for this recording and then one time before, like, in my preview, I laughed at that, that line every time.


Her again, her delivery is so funny and like that, this is an experienced woman speaking.

I guess it's just, I don't know, it, it's just so straight to the point and matter of, I don't know, it's just great.

Um Then she, when she forgives eve towards the end for this fake proposal, she says you couldn't help it.

I mean if you're nuts and then she tosses this look back to all the rest of the women.

That is amazing.

Like a again we talk about good face work sometimes but that facial express expression was priceless.

It's kind of like, can you guys believe us?

Like can you guys believe how crazy this guy is?


And with just like no concept or under that and that they're twins.

Uh I also had the I just really like the bridesmaids dresses because they were giving me still magnolia vibes.

So I wanted to be clear that that was a like for me, what else did you have in likes that's what I had.

OK, I uh one more thing and this is where it connects back to the b plot.

And what I really liked was eve including with just him.

Generally, I did like him.

I thought he was for such a small character.

I thought they did a, that actor did a nice job developing that character.

Uh And I liked it when he tells Julia.

So Julia goes off on the reporter's poor assistant, which I felt really terrible about like that whole when we get that whole runner about food, which is great.

But she says, but he says that she almost had it, but she talked too long and you got to keep it short and sweet.

And I just love that come around.

Tell me that sometimes uh what we didn't like.

Yeah, what didn't you like?

Um I, I just have one thing I think everyone was being a little dramatic about being in Bernice's wedding.

I, I did, I kind of didn't like that.

So what, it's one day in a dress fitting and she's so darn nice about everything.

She brags on them.

We're pretty sure she loves them.

Like, why, why, why the big deal Charlene is like our, our resident angel because she like took over planning the wedding.

She was, she was kind of, I think she reminded them a couple of times like she thinks of us like her Children.

This is the least we can do come on guys or she was your conscience speaking out loud for the cast.

And Mary Jo, I kind of understood but I'm like, oh, what, I'm sorry, Julia and Suzanne, what do y'all have going on?

Well, Suzanne had P MS, um, Julia had some really funny lines like, um, where she says, I think we've dispensed with all, um, semblance of pride of personal appearance or whatever.

I thought that was really funny but like almost like a misfire given the dress that she was wearing it really wasn't that bad in the grand scheme of bridesmaid dresses.

Like, I think everybody has a story of someone they know that got put in lime green or something.

You know, I'm sure my bridesmaids looking back on it now are kind of like, dang, I had to pay for that.

That's the only time I'm ever going to wear that.

It really wasn't that bad.

I hear you.

Every bridesmaid thinks dang, I had to pay for that.

I don't care if you liked it or not.

I've never been a bridesmaid.

Always a bride, never a bridesmaid.

So I don't know.

It's a different twist on that saying I know it says something about me never been a bridesmaid.

I have another friend who's in the same situation and we uh I feel like we need an extra sugar on this.

Meanwhile, I feel like 27 dresses.

Well, that's just how popular you are.

Well, that's, I think it says something about me.

I feel like there's probably, there's probably a psychological thing there.

Something we should explore if I think about it too long, my self esteem goes down.

So I'm gonna to refocus on the fact that I just hated that Bernice didn't get her fairy tale.

I'm with you.

That was my one, didn't like about this one.


So you get it.

I get it.

I do.

I see what I can see the under like the, the writer's choice not to do it.

But yeah, I'm with you.

I feel like she could have just, no, I got to say something before we move on.

No, I absolutely have to say something.

It is a, a missed opportunity that someone hasn't had you at a, as a bridesmaid.

That's what I'm gonna say.

Thank you.

That's a missed flipping opportunity.

Uh because you would be a phenomenal bridesmaid.

So it's a, you'd be really on it, you'd be really on it.

It's a sore spot for me.

I do think that uh when we like timing has a lot to do with it and like when we got married, um I also, I had a very small bridal party and I think sometimes the bridesmaid thing becomes like a, you did this and yeah, I just had, I drew names out of a hat.

Oh yeah, because I couldn't, it was too, it was too much pressure.

It's why my um I chose my two best friends from high school and my sister, um, because I couldn't pick sorority sisters.

I couldn't pick one over the other.

I couldn't make someone feel more important than the other, but I also couldn't have a dozen bridesmaids.


So, I don't know.

I appreciate you saying that.

I just felt like you needed to hear that.

I didn't want to, I don't want to skip over.

It makes me feel very self conscious that I've never been a bridesmaid.

It really does.

I have a friend who's never been one either.

Um, similar situation where very similar lives.

And we've joked before that we need to have second weddings so that we can be each other's bridesmaid just so we can have that experience.

It feel it does feel like something I've missed out on.

We'll talk off here.


I say that with a grain of salt.

Part of it sounds terrible.


Let's do rate this sucker.

Shall we?

We shall?


Oh, look, it's my turn.

I don't have a rating scale.

Do you have one?

Can I steal it?

I have a rating but not a scale.

You can have my scale.

It's nonsensical Bernie fiascos.

Oh, wonderful.

I gave it a five out of five.

I went all in just a Bernice.


She's the highlight for me.

That's just, that's all I have to say.

I thought her, her lines are so funny.

Her delivery is so funny.

The whole, I had issues with the plot but whatever it was great.

I liked it.

I Give it a 3.3 out of five.

Dang Gosh.

Almost not like Alice Ghostly.

No, God bless because every single bit that I gave it was really to Bernie and Eve they got all of my 3.3.

Um I just think they're both great.

Um But aside from Loving to spend time with Bernice, I, I'm just not, I just didn't, I wasn't sure I understood the purpose of this episode.

It's another one where I feel like we started or we wind up in the end where we started.

Nothing changes.

None of our characters grew.

I just, I, I, I didn't, I didn't understand the purpose and when that happens it, I'm always gonna like score it a little lower.

I get that.

Um So I've got news.

What's the news?


So we were like, we were spinning out a little bit on the first three episodes because we wanted to say like who won the episode.

But we didn't know what to call that.

We don't want to just say who won the episode.

Anybody could do that.

Well, you came up with something brilliant, which is we call it brilliant.

Well, sometimes I'm afraid it's accidentally gonna sound sexual.

Uh-oh, I thought about that to be honest, but that will make me laugh and so I'm fine with it.

So from now on when someone wins the episode.

They are the people who butted our biscuits.

And I think that voice really helps.

I think it does.


And then if they lost the episode then they served us lumpy gravy.

Oh, the worst.

Don't be serving me lumpy flour filled gravy.

Get out of here with that.

And raw flour will make you sick.

So, and we don't want to be sick.

Oh, actually I think it can get you salmonella.

I'm like tuber.

I'm not good with the medical things.

I don't know.

I have no idea.

I think I can get you sick.

It could kill you.

And salmonella is that meat?

What did I say?

You said something?

I said botulism, botulism's from ted cans.

It doesn't, what matter is that you don't eat raw flour, you don't eat dented cans.

Does it matter what the condition is in my mind?

It does not.


Or the, or either I'm eating raw flour and dented cans all the time.

I don't know.

We'll see.

I mean, not the can itself let it go.


So who bought a Joe biscuit?

Uh the ladies because they got their dinner comped by the looney men right there at the end of the episode.

That really just feels like uh someone who, who really won.

Yeah, they won.

I want a free dinner.

I always want a free dinner all the time every time.

Um Mine was Bernice.

She's dating.

She has a good friend from the retirement community who looks after her.

Um, and she's getting a free meal so we both found him free a free meal.

What it's all about and she doesn't even have to go in a dumb looking dress.

Oh, yeah.

I got a picture of her dress too.

It, it's fine.


Well, it was, it wasn't the pink fluffy cup dress and matching three other people.

Yeah, that's true.

So, who served, who served this lumpy gravy this time tie for me.

It was either poor Eve.


He'll never know the love of a woman as good as Bernice.

Oh, that's sad.

And, or Jackson weeks, the reporter because he got that brief earful from Julia right before he left for the day.

Like the whole thing was he's getting ready to leave the office.

What a crappy way to end your day.

Ding, ding, ding.

I think we have a winner.

I also have Jackson Weeks.

I also have because he's got Julia chasing him down, leaving him RTY messages and then telling him to kick rocks at the tail end of his day.

Which means I think we had some symbiosis there.


All right.

All right.

Well, there we go.

How about some 80s things?

I just have the one, the V H S BC R situation when Bernice and Anthony arrive at Sugar Bakers and he's showing the video of Eve indeed is very pretty D V R.

Um, I had reading the physical newspaper which happens throughout the episode.

They're just always getting out the old.


Wait, wait, what did you say, man?

That's fancy.

Um, making a call from a landline to the New York Times.

Good point.

Again, I'm gonna say those bridesmaids dresses that pep, pep, that Pepto bismol pink and tool.

I mean that is pep.


Pepto is small plus tool.


Oh, look at that.

Um, and then calling administrative assistant secretaries, which we've talked about before.

It's a different era, Southern things.

Uh there was an Elvis mention at the top of the episode.

A reference to the fact that he may still be alive.

Charlene was reading a book called is Elvis really dead as far as I can tell that's not a real book.

Um but I did find a book published in 1991 called Dead Elvis.

A chronicle of a cultural obsession.

Oh, which is about this like conspiracy about whether he's dead or alive.

Uh dirt eating in the South.

I'm just gonna put it here.

Put a pin in it because we're gonna come back to it in extra sugar.

Uh Julia left her number for the newspaper editor and it started with a four oh four.

This has happened a couple of times that is in Atlanta area girl and just like every one of eve sayings was the dang thing I ever read.

Yes, sir.

Well, I don't rattly know a little long under eye, a little short on studs and I like you a rat smart.

I wanna use that one more.

I like you a rat.



Fits with the overalls I'm wearing today.

I feel like I should be standing like this.

I like you a rat smart Salina.

And then you can really like, it's like a thinking spot.


Right to hold them.


Hold the overalls.

My overalls are my whole personality now, guys, it's just a thing.

So get, get with it.

That's all I have.

I had, um, is it a Southern transition to start a sentence with?

I mean, because I feel like I do it all the time.

I mean, I feel like there was a lot of that going on and I'm just wondering, is that, is that a Southern thing that we rely on that does everybody do it?

But I've just noticed it a lot lately like in, in the show and I was like, huh, maybe that's maybe that's something that we do.

We're so used to being misunderstood we have to start with.

I mean, maybe, um, did you say better looking?

Ok, so that was, I think that was, uh Suzanne talking maybe I usually try and write it down.

I didn't hear it doesn't matter anyways better looking.

That just sounded really southern to me, the food runner that you mentioned at the beginning.

Grits biscuits gravy, all of that.

Um And then so Suzanne says, talking about Julia that she would wind up sounding like some old loony, drunken debutante left over from the civil war.

And she called the New York Times about the article.

And then there's also a couple more civil war references that get um linked in there as well.

So it's always the best references that we need to talk about.

I'd like uh the space dog.

I'm so glad that you looked into that because I realized on rewatch this morning to get prepared for today that I missed that one.

Well, the um what do you call them?

Captions, the captioned website that I look at to look at the script called it Latke.

So I was looking up Latka the space dog, which is potatoes, right?



And it won't take you very far when you're looking for a space dog.

Um Yeah, I'm like, what did you find out about the potatoes?

Alaa is a stray Soviet dog that was sent into low orbit in 1957.

Uh the first animal to orbit the earth and one of the first sent into space, the first sent into space were fruit flies and they were recovered.

Uh an aus monkey who died on impact after a parachute failure.

Uh like a Was actually a little bit of a controversy because there were no plans made for her survival and she likely died.

This is a dog likely died of asphyxiation or overheating just hours into her flight.

Russian officials unveiled a monument in her honor in 2008.

Um, so an interesting point, I just mentioned a little controversy.

What's interesting is actually even though there were no plans made for her survival or retrieval, it really didn't spark conversation about ethics in like, animal testing because it was overshadowed by the US Soviet space race.

So everybody sort of looked another direction also a different time for animals.




But I think, uh, it sparked some conversation kind of late.

Yeah, maybe as the conversation shifted in culture and society.

Uh, that's why they unveiled that, uh, statue for her later because without her, there were, I guess, I don't know much about the space race and all that, but she was important was the bottom line.

Yeah, that was thing one.


I'm sorry.

Thing to another dead person.

Judge Crater.

Uh, a New York State Supreme court justice who went missing in the thirties.

What an old reference even in the eighties.

No, This is Julia is like famous for these.


Her and Hal Holbrook are just always talking about the 30s.

It's all for them.

I don't remember when they were born in the thirties.

I'm, I'm almost sure she died in her sixties.

It was like in the early to mid two thousands.

I'm almost sure her thirties, he may be a little bit old.

Well, he just passed last year and he was like 92.

I don't do math.

Anyway, Judge Crater was related to a political scandal.

I ended up reading about it.

I'm not bringing it all here.

Uh, but it's interesting.

Salina's bringing it here.

Go for it.


Well, I do.

Hey, I just want to say that it is really interesting.

Um, and that we could link to an article of people want to look closer at it.

I think it's again, just like one of, I find that corruption in that time period.

So interesting for a few reasons.

One is that people really like to say, gosh, I just wish we could return to the good old days.

And I would just like to say, not samey to good old days, but it's just a different time period.

That's it.

Like they were just wearing fedora and they were still pieces of crap out there.

So I don't understand what we're talking about when we say that that's all.

That's just my little, this one was very specific to New York and I'm not sure very many people want to return to the good old days of New York.

I think corruption in New York is pretty widely known.

That's true.

That's true.

But also here we good old boy networks is a real thing, right?

So I just, again, I just say, what are you talking about?

The days that were good for them?

Um And people like them.

It also like it is.

But like talking about that corruption, his disappearance winds up being a downfall uh or a factor in the downfall of Tammany Hall.

It's a New York City political organization that lasted for nearly two centuries and had its like stronghold over New York.

So I think that's kind of important.

I saw Tammany Hall and I was like, hm, I feel like I learned that at some point in time, we really do.

Like, I think, I think I learned that in like fourth grade that Boss Tweet, I will never forget Boss Tweed Tweet.

I don't know.

How do you?

Oh, really?

He's just like a really corrupt political figure.

Um And so the only other thing I wanted to bring up because I just think this is super weird.

Ok, so 75 years after this guy disappears, I don't know if you ran across this or in your research or not.

So it seems like there was a break in the case.

It's like widely reported on in the news.

I think this is like an oh five era or something like that when a letter from a recently deceased woman surfaces and it claims that her late husband who was an N Y P D cop and his brother were responsible for crater's death and he, he's like buried somewhere under the current site of the New York City Aquarium.

There's no follow up.

No one ever reported on it that I could find to say like, and yes, it's true.

It, or like we found the body or we substantiated the letters.


There was no outcome.

It was just like we possibly found the body.

Dead silence.

Isn't that kind of weird?

Yeah, maybe it's someone who went missing in the 30s.

They got bigger issues, but they can't go excavate the New York City Aquarium Foundation.

I guess.

They're just waiting till they raise it and then they'll give it a once over.

It just felt like such a, like dead end to something that like for whatever reason it felt that why would you bring it all up if you're not going to see it through?

Yeah, that's true.

So, anyways, that bothered me.

All right, Salina.

Did you want to talk about cut lines though?

Any that stood out for you?


Uh, right after Julia says you can find people doing stupid things everywhere.

But before Mary Jo tells her to go after the paper, this was cut.

Um, you know, if the Atlanta Constitution printed an article like this saying that dirt eating was on the upswing in New York, why they would be the laughing stock of the South?

One would believe that New Yorkers eat dirt.

That's right.

But if the Times says Southerners do it, then it must be true.

You betcha.

And there's a picture right here of Buford and Eula May having a little after dinner clad just to prove it.

Who are Buford and Eula May.

They're just names.

I used to make a point.


Oh, good.

Because I was gonna say, you know, Buford E may judge crater.

Lack of the lack, lack lake.

I don't know, lack of the Russian space dog.

How come?

I don't know any of these people, you know, I really don't believe that it's the people in New York's fault though.

It's the paper that makes a big deal out of it.

So all that was cut, I have three points to make here one, what a big comment on North South perception in media that was just cut from the episode.

Like there was a whole conversation in there that would have been a lot for us to talk about uh a throwback to the early conversation in the episode about people.

Charlene doesn't know.

So that was sort of to.


Right now we do.

Uh And then someone at the end, I'm thinking it's our resident Savant Suzanne.

I think it's her, makes a great point about the press deciding what should be important and what's a big deal.

And I think that's a really important thing to keep in mind in our current environment.

She says, you know, I really don't think it's the people in New York's fault though.

It's the paper that makes a big deal out of it.

It could be Charlene that says it anyway, someone is making the point that it's not the people it's what the press is choosing to filter to us three points about that after Bernice says Eve is just like he seems and Charlene says he doesn't talk.

Uh this was said not much, that's why they call him dead Eve.

Um And then Anthony says he'll go out and unload the truck.

I'm just bringing that up because it felt like a tiny bit more character development for Eve.

Not much I think a smidge.

Uh And then you mentioned this earlier when Eve tells Julia, she has to keep her message short and sweet Suzanne said, and then Suzanne says, ha Julia, that'll be the day.

This was cut.


I can be succinct when the occasion rises.

Ha This, I'd like to see she's a little foreshadowing for what's going to happen later in the episode last, but not least there's a lot this time on the note of foreshadowing when Julia finally does talk to Jackson, she has to tell him that his secretary took her whole note and tells him to read it.

She says she'll wait while he does.

That's what leads her to say.

She knows his time is valuable.

So it's a little bit of a cut there.


So that's all I got in cut lines.

Uh So next episode, episode five, this, I feel like this is a really big one for you, Salina Big Hoss and little Falsie.

Oh Yeah, excited.

So as always, we'd love everyone to follow along with us and engage.

We are on Instagram and Facebook at Sweet Tea and TV.

Our email address is sweet tea TV pod at gmail dot com and our website is sweet tea TV dot com and that's where you can find information about our patreon.

Uh If you'd like to support the show and hang tight for extra sugar, I'm gonna allude to the dirt eating reference, but we're actually going to play a game blitz style.

Uh uh Well, you know what that means?

What does it mean?


Well, one, it probably means I'm about to lose a game and two, it means we're about to see around the bench.

Welcome to this week's edition of Extra Sugar.

This week, we're going to latch on to that be in Julia's Bonnet about news articles about Southerners eating dirt.

So we talked about this in the main episode.

It's really funny.

I ended up with this segment because the idea of eating dirt gives me the heebie GB.

And you had suggested something when we were planning about doing a segment on eating dirt and I put my foot down hard and I was like, yeah, no, that's gross.

Um There is a core memory buried in my brain somewhere.

I'm I told you earlier, it's a TV show or a movie or something.

The person had to eat dirt.

It just freaks me out.

So we had decided we were going to make this segment about Southern myths, but I feel like to move forward.

I have to, I have to face my fear and I have to first move backwards and touch on that New York Times article that upset Julia so much.

So I'm gonna talk a little bit about that and then we're going to get into an interactive non dirt related bit of the segment.


Does that sound good?

I think you're going to do.


I'm gonna have you do a little word association.

Uh So as always, feel free to pop in along the way, if you have questions, I may or may not have answers, but I'm gonna do the best I can.

So I actually traced back a couple of New York Times articles that L BT actually may have had in mind when she wrote this episode.

Um The authors, the name of the authors were both different than Jackson Weeks, which was the name of the reporter.

Uh That shouldn't be surprising, but I felt like I needed to make it was packs and peaks, right?

Um also, notably Julia said it something like, um, you know, every couple of years, they'll dust off a story about southerners eating dirt.

It actually seems kind of true in the like, like I think the first article I found was 84, the second one was 86.

So it does feel like it's on a little bit of a cycle every couple of years.

The New York times would um write an article about this.

Uh I also found a more recent n pr article about the practice of dirt eating.

It was from 2014, uh which was reported.

Uh The article was written in support of a documentary about dirt eating.

It's all linked to all that too.

Uh So back to those New York Times articles after reading them, I'd say did the coverage possibly oversell how common dirt eating was at the time probably.

Um But they both offered some pretty good evidence that some people um at that time, at least in the South did eat clay.

It feels like an important distinction.

Um They sometimes use the word dirt and clay interchangeably, but I get the sense that it's an important distinction that it's actually clay they're talking about.

But I'm gonna caveat all this with.

I took a physical geography class in college that doesn't make me a scientist.

So I'm just throwing it out there at that.

Um I think it's clay.

Um And so then the articles also shared some of the cultural roots of this practice.

So here are a couple of high points.

Dirt eating has a name.

It's called Geo geo.

I don't know uh It happens among cultures on every inhabited continent.

Uh It may be done because dirt provides critical nutrients and can help fight digestive issues including nausea.

It's actually common among pregnant dirt eaters for this reason, which is like pi pi, excuse me?

Well, like I thought like, uh, there was a name for it like eating dirt or like raw ground beef and stuff.

I might know this.


And I could probably be tossing in some inaccurate medical information so it doesn't matter.


Dirt eating pregnancy.

Got it.

So, For the 1984 article, they interviewed a specific woman named Fannie who shared how she does in fact eat dirt.

Uh And she also had very discerning dirt eating taste as do others who eat dirt.

I think this is where the clay thing comes into effect.

So they described in one of the articles, they described a specific hill on which one day a medical anthropologist studying the phenomenon found three cars lined up to gather dirt.

It was a preferred spot among those who Lame in the area.

And I think this was Mississippi.

I might not have mentioned that.

I think it was Mississippi uh toward the end of one of the articles they talked about the health effects.

Um the 1984, 1 quoted a local doctor who shared that of the women he treats who eat dirt.

Only one has ever experienced significant health effects and it was a clogged colon.

That's a lot of dirt.

I think that was the point.

Too much of anything is too much of something that's everything in moderation.

But yeah, so in general it sounds like um there are people in certain pockets of the south of, of cultures all around the world who have developed this, um, habit of eating dirt and they have their preferred locations.

Um, Fannie, I think was the one that described, um, very in depth, like the taste of it, how she prefers it, how she prefers to gather it.

There was a little bit mentioned about how they'll, like, bottle it up and send it to family members who have moved to other parts of the country.


I, it doesn't seem that weird to me.

It seems weird to me because my stuff.

Oh, ok.

Like, that's just kind of funny to me only because like two, like, um, I, I just thinking about it, something about it is sounding very much like today how it's so in vogue, like single source coffee and like, you know what I'm saying?

So it's like, you know, I think certain things like I'm thinking about the things you grow in dirt, but you grow in a kind of dirt and it's going to make the product taste different, right?

So this sort of makes sense then, right?

So, I think here's where we get to the rest of the segment, which is a little bit different.

It's a little bit of a shift from dirt eating and I'll tell you why I thought about this segment a lot.

I found myself coming back to it over several days because what I really wanted to do was tackle pervasive myths about quote unquote weird Southern cultural practices in the media, which is directly in the wheelhouse of our podcast, directly related to this episode.

But dang it, people eat dirt and it has deep cultural roots.

It is something that people in these communities have developed over time.

It's a taste, they've developed, they even have their preferences.

And then as I thought about it more Julia and I guess in turn L BT because she wrote the episode, their offense at those New York Times articles was almost in a way more stigmatizing than the articles themselves.

I can see that.

Yeah, because I thought the articles were actually pretty balanced on the whole.

I felt like they spoke to the actual stories of actual people who do it.

Can I provide some feedback, show what I thought just that.

Why is this news?

That's it, it's interesting.

Well, I guess, like anthropology kind of train of mine but it's just not like when I think about news about something being like of a certain time and like highly relevant and all that, like, it doesn't feel like it's highly relevant for like New York Times readers necessarily to hear about like, it doesn't necessarily feel timely like it wasn't like there wasn't like something happening in the dirt eating community.

You know what I'm saying?

Well, see, I think features are not always the most and I imagine this is a, I can't remember if this was a feature but like something that you don't think happens often and to put out an article that says, actually people do this, this is something you wouldn't think of as the norm.

But people do me, right?

And so it's like, but that's where I get to the balance part because it's not like they're saying, redneck southerners are out eating dirt.

They're saying this is like it has cultural roots.

It happens in every inhabited continent which I think was actually in one of the articles.

Um So actually it was a little bit stigmatizing that L BT was so offended by it because it might not have been part of herself, but it was part of someone's self.

I think that's a very interesting perspective.

So what I didn't want to do was to focus on weird little Southern myths that are actually real parts of people's lives.

Also, we know talking about myths kind of perpetuates.

There you go.

Whoops, whoopsy Daisy.

So with all that in mind, I thought maybe instead we could focus on micro traditions in the South.

So things that happen, maybe in little pockets, things that may not be part of our traditional part of the South, but are parts of other parts of the South.

And now you're going to see if I know anything I'm gonna see if I'm like, I know nothing.

So it's this idea that the South is not a monolith.

So what we do in Metro Atlanta may be different than what they do in the low country or what they do in the Mississippi Delta, which is different than what they do in the Creole community in Louisiana.

I love it.

Uh Except for being tested on it.

I, I think you're gonna do great.

I really think you're gonna do.


Uh So I think we're going to take a chance, highlight some of these micro traditions.

We'll talk about their history.

The interactive portion is where you're going to do word association.

So I'll give you a word or a phrase and you just tell me what comes to mind.

I don't want you to think about it.

I just want you to say the first thing that comes to mind unless it's you need to self censor a little bit.

I don't think you have to do that.

I don't think you're gonna have to do that.

So I just say the first you're gonna say something.

I say the first word that comes to mind.

That's it or phrase or whatever comes to mind when I say it.


You ready?

So I have three of them?


So are you ready for this edition of Grant?

All right, folks.

She's ready.


Up porch ceilings blue.

Ah, great.

What I had in mind was indigo blue, sometimes called Haint Blue.

So I found a taste of home article that says the painted blue porch ceiling started in the American South about 200 years ago.

The practice traces back to the Gullah Geechee enslaved people living in the low country of Florida, Georgia and South Carolina Gullah folklore explains that ghosts also referred to as hats were not able to cross water in order to repel evil spirits from plantations porch ceilings were painted as soft blue.

This color was meant to mimic water in an effort to keep any hats or spirits at bay.

The gullah people made sure to cover all their bases, windows, doors and shutters were often painted the same color of haint blue.

A similarly related tradition is a bottle tree, literally trees made of bottles and yards meant to trap spirits.

Uh Today, the indigo blue porch ceiling tradition lives on in the low country or coastal regions, mostly of South Carolina, but it's also spread across the country.

I've seen this before.



And you know, the weird thing is so, um, I've seen it in Charleston and actually when they were doing our porch out back, they asked us that we wanted to do it blue.

I so badly want to do mine blue.

It's just not the house for it.

Um, for the very thing that you're saying, it's like it, it looks so good on those beautiful coastal houses, but on my very cookie cutter suburban home, I don't know, it's gonna look back.

I don't know it look that great, but like when it looks good.

It looks phenomenal.

It's so funny though because I didn't get the, the gola tradition, which I think is fascinating.

I think what I was told is that it was just supposed to emulate like the sky.

I read that too.

That is another thing.

Well, what you said is way cooler.

I will say, I want to mention one thing I've only ever heard it called Hat Blue.

I've never heard it called Indigo Blue.

Um But in my searching, I found a Gainesville Times article that quoted Queen, I might not pronounce this right.

And I'm sorry, Queen Qut, the chief and head of state of the Gullah Geechee nation based in ST Helena Island, South Carolina who said that people of their culture would never refer to the blue ceiling or doorway as hat blue.

Oh really?

She said they use Indigo blue more specifically.

She said what it is is that it's a mis presentation.

It came from Anglo people that started calling it hat because they didn't understand the spiritual part of it.

So when we hear that it's offensive to our people and tradition.

So she added that she takes pride in seeing ceilings painted blue, knowing that her ancestors contributed to that.

But I think the linguistic mention is important because that's what I've always called it.

So I'm gonna try from now on to remember to call it Indigo blue.

You called it blue.

So good for you.

Well, that's because I only knew a little bit.

So next, your word is horse shoe.

Look, she's doing great Salina.

Two out of two.

Help me.

So I'm referring to an upturned horseshoe as a way to keep bad luck away.

Uh This came up a lot in Southern traditions, but it has its roots in Irish or Celtic culture.

This will be interesting to your friends in Ireland.

I think it makes sense that there's some crossover with Southern culture because Appalachia was settled by lots and lots of Irish people.

Um So I found an article on Southern thing dot com that confirmed hanging a horseshoe over a door is a symbol of luck across the south.

And they mentioned that how you hang, it determines where the luck lands specifically when hung with its ends up over a doorway.

You catch good luck for those that live in the house.

If you hang it upside down with its ends pointing down that shares good luck with all that pass through.

Personally, I've always heard if you hang it upside down, your luck falls out in my head.

I was picturing it like a you, right?

That's, that's holding your luck in.

But they're saying you could hold it, you could do it like a, what is this?

An N kind of lower case n and that showers people with good luck.

But I've always been told that's your good luck falling out.

Maybe it's showering at other people and maybe I'm just greedy.

It is kind of like an interesting, uh, personality study.


In terms of the history, I found an article on wide open country that said, um, the story of Saint Dunston and the horse shoe varies greatly depending on where you look.

But the gist of the story is that in the 10th century Saint Dunstan, a blacksmith at the time was visited by the devil himself who asked him for a horse shoe for himself.

So Dunstan used iron nails to secure a red hot horse shoe tightly on one of his hooves.

And the devil howled in pain.

The devil begged Dunstan to remove the hot shoe and he agreed under one condition, the devil must respect the horseshoe and never enter any place where one was hung above the door because of this.

People believed the horseshoe could keep evil spirits and bad luck out of their homes and thus bring in or keep in good fortune.

That's interesting.

And that's, that's the Irish.

That's the Irish.



Um And I don't remember if you specifically mentioned this in Graceland when you did the extra sugar on Graceland.

But Elvis was a big fan of horseshoes.

Oh, I did not mention that so much.

So he wore a gold horseshoe ring for good luck.

He liked dory, he liked.

So there's that one.

All right.

Last one.


What do you think of when I say boiled peanuts?

Oh my gosh?

You killed it this time, Salina.

That's right.

Bold Penis.

Boiled peanuts.

What are you hearing?



Boiled peanuts.

A massive Southern tradition and something I think you might have even mentioned in episode one of the season when we talked about our Florida memories.

Um being like a roadside staple.

Not for me but people like, I just had some a couple of weekends ago.

You love them.

I do, I do.

I told you I'm a bad Southerner.

That's what I bring to the table a lot.

I think they're polarizing.

I don't think you again, the South is not a monolith.

I'm the only Southerner I can think of who doesn't like boiled peanuts.

My mom said she likes them.

They're just really messy.

That's understandable.

So I found an article on the national peanut boards website that said boiled peanuts are called the Caviar of the South.

Incidentally, I've also heard, I think Pimento cheese called the Caviar of the South.

Take that for what you will.

It also feels like we don't have an understanding of what Caviar is.

Yeah, we don't know what Caviar is.

What do we know?

That's what it sounds like.

The piece goes on to say no one knows exactly when Southerners started boiling peanuts, but it went on to share.

So I feel like I have to enunciate every time it went on to share some historical context clues for when they may have come about starting in the colonial days, they note that peanuts were first brought to America by slaves from Africa.

And that boiling likely started there.

Then during the civil war, there's evidence that even when food was scarce for confederate soldiers, peanuts were available and easy to carry, they would roast or boil them over campfires and add salt to preserve them.

It shared that the first boiled Peanut Recipe was published in 1899 and there's evidence that boys were selling them as a snack for five cents a bag by 1925 in Orangeburg, South Carolina.


So, there you have it, it was a little bit of a detour from where I started planning and, like, dirt eating.

But I hope that wasn't too painful for me.

I love it.

I love the idea of giving credit where credit's due, highlighting traditions that some of these things for us are so, like normal and just like boiled peanuts.

It doesn't even occur to me.

People haven't even tried them before.



But it's a thing.

I mean, so I have to, there were no stakes, I'm sorry.

No steaks.


Oh, shoot A K E, I know.

I'm hungry.

So I went to steaks.

I appreciate.


Yeah, you're right.

There were no steaks I did.

Well, the day were there any other southern traditions you would have liked me to have covered?

Oh, that's a bigger question than you can answer.

I, I really know.

I don't have anything that's like, how could she not cover this?

I think the ones that you cover were really interesting.

And I think again, just showing, um, these traditions that came from other places that were brought here, I think, I think is one of the most interesting things that we can talk about when it comes to things like that.


Well, good, glad you loved it.

If anyone thinks of anything that I should have covered, let me know because we could always do this again.

I love quizzing Salina.

Uh but that has been this week's edition of Extra Sugar.


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