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Designing Women S5 E1 - Mary Jo Gets Engaged

Updated: Oct 10, 2023

How??? How are we at season 5? We don’t know, but we do know that Julia goes on her first rant in forever. A Southern one no less. Oh! And Mary Jo is getting hitched! No, she’s not, psyche, made you look. [enter shrug emoji]

Speaking of 90s lingo, we’re going all out in this week’s “Extra Sugar” where we’re going to get a little nostalgic about possibly our favorite decade.

But first: we can’t have an episode about the Tour of Homes without sidebar-ing on…the Tour of Homes.

Want more reads? We probably have some:

Come on y’all, let’s get into it!



Salina: Hey, Nikki.

Nikki: Hey, Salina.

Salina: And hello, everyone.

Salina: Or y'all.

Nikki: You usually say hello everyone, and I say, hey y'all.

Salina: Is that what happens?

Nikki: That's usually what happens.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: Welcome to Sweet Tea and TV.

Salina: Hey y'all.

Salina: The place where the memory is spotty.

Salina: But we are at season five.

Salina: And so before we launch in, I just want to take a minute to let that sink in for you.

Salina: Or did you think it was season 25 already?

Nikki: I've been looking through this season realizing how much fewer episodes there are than last season, which is a check mark in my book.

Salina: Yes.

Nikki: So that's nice.

Nikki: But yeah, it is crazy to me that we have done this will be our fifth season of this.

Nikki: That's a lot of designing women.

Salina: It's a lot of Designing women and it's a lot of time with headphones on.

Salina: And it's a lot of time with you and me hanging out in my closet.

Nikki: A lot of time editing episodes behind the computer.

Salina: Lot of time doing social media.

Nikki: Lot of time.

Nikki: I don't know.

Nikki: I ran out of things.

Salina: Drinking caffeine.

Nikki: That's true.

Salina: And you know what, y'all?

Salina: It's a lot of time thinking about how maybe, just maybe, despite our seven complaints right there, that complaints.

Nikki: Those were facts, Salina.

Salina: Facts.

Salina: Notable facts that we do it for you and for us and for ourselves.

Salina: Because we are nothing if not selfish and giving.

Salina: We are all the things complex.

Nikki: We're complex human beings.

Salina: Yes.

Salina: So we're going to launch into season five.

Salina: But real quick, I just wanted to share some housekeeping notes if that's okay.

Nikki: As long as you're pointing the entire way.

Salina: I'm pointing the entire way.

Salina: Sure.

Nikki: I know where to go.

Salina: So we just did Rerelease or Re air September, whatever you like.

Salina: And basically we were show, in case you missed that.

Salina: We were showcasing some of our favorite episodes from seasons one through four and then also some of our favorite extra sugars from this last season.

Salina: And we were doing this for a few reasons, but one is that we were hopeful that new listeners it was a way to introduce them to some of the earlier things that we've done and make sure they know that if they're just getting here and it's season four or five, that they're able to go back and listen to our thoughts and maybe chat with us online if they want to about some of those older episodes that we've already done.

Nikki: Do you see this look on my face of like, why did we do that?

Nikki: Salina remind you?

Salina: Oh, is that what's happening?

Salina: I thought it was like, shut up, Salina.

Salina: Why are you going on and on?

Nikki: You said, the reason we did that.

Nikki: And I was like, why did we do that?

Salina: If not, I think this one will spark your memory.

Salina: Because the other reason we did it is so we could take a one.

Nikki: That one that's the one I remember.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: And so this is our opportunity, really.

Salina: And I'm going to go ahead and speak for Nikki here because I do think she will totally agree with me on this.

Salina: That's true to say.

Salina: Thank you for allowing us to take that pause.

Salina: Trust me, there was still work there somehow there was still work, but it did give us a chance to catch our breath before we head into this next season.

Salina: And so thank you.

Nikki: Thank you.

Salina: Thank you.

Salina: If there wasn't new content in that for you, we appreciate your patience, and we triple appreciate your patience if you're a patreon.

Salina: So, in fact, Nikki especially has been thinking of some additional ways to give y'all some good exclusive content this season.

Salina: And as always, I think we're trying to poke around for opportunities.

Nikki: But we love our patreons.

Nikki: We're so grateful for them.

Nikki: We love everyone, but we especially love our patreons.

Salina: Yes, we especially love our patreons because for some reason they want to support us in additional ways.

Salina: And you know what?

Salina: We're super grateful.

Nikki: We're grateful for it.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Anyway, so I am looking forward to some of the additional things that we may be able to accomplish over this season.

Salina: We've also stayed really active on social media the whole time, so that's a great way to stay in touch with us.

Salina: And we definitely encourage you to follow us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, or subscribe to our YouTube channel.

Salina: You could be the 20 eigth person there.

Nikki: Is there a prize?

Salina: We're not as active on YouTube, but you can get all of our episodes there.

Nikki: That one really pushes the boundaries of what I'm familiar with and what I'm comfortable with because it's video by default and I genuinely try to stay off camera just in all instances.

Nikki: So YouTube's a tough one for me.

Nikki: I love it, personally.

Nikki: It's my favorite.

Salina: Sometimes I'm like, just set up some cameras everywhere because I never look at a picture or video of myself and go, who the h*** is that?

Salina: Never.

Nikki: Where did those gray hairs come from?

Salina: Never does that.

Nikki: My nose always sat at that in class.

Nikki: Too much for me.

Salina: Well, it's the mirroring that really screws me up because I'm used to seeing my asymmetrical face the other way.

Nikki: The other way.

Salina: And so when I see it the way that everyone else does, I'm like, what is happening?

Salina: It doesn't matter.

Salina: It doesn't matter.

Salina: I'm 38.

Salina: I know how I look.

Salina: Finally, if you're enjoying the show, leave us heaven and stars.

Salina: I'm like, about to get down on bended knee.

Salina: Please leave us a five star rating or review on the podcast platform of your choice that helps other people find us, which is, quite frankly, critical to that age old fantasy of quitting your day job and doing something that you love.

Salina: So I'm just going to throw that out there for your consideration.

Nikki: Somewhere between we're the ugliest trolls you've ever seen.

Salina: We hate.

Nikki: We're old and we desperately need your support.

Nikki: If you're a new listener, you're just getting the real flavor.

Salina: That's why we're audio.

Salina: That is our gift to the world.

Salina: So, season five.

Salina: Dicky.

Nikki: Season five.

Nikki: Salina we are at season five, episode one.

Nikki: For a split second, I forgot what episode number we were on.

Nikki: It is just the first.

Salina: This one is called I've talked about my looks and my age.

Salina: I'm out.

Nikki: We've put Salina through the wringer and we're barely even in season five.

Nikki: All right.

Nikki: Season five, episode one.

Nikki: A blast from the past.

Nikki: The Designing women online description.

Nikki: Now, does this mean, Salina, that Hulu and IMDb just were not cutting at this time?

Salina: I'm pretty sure they failed me, but it's been a while since I pulled this together, so I don't know.

Nikki: IMDb Hulu.

Nikki: Take note.

Nikki: Designing Women online says mary Jo is reminded of a promise to marry a platonic friend if they are both still single.

Nikki: At 35, Julia discovers that the Sugar Baker's house was built on the foundation of a civil War home and has it added to the tour of historical homes until the tour takes over her home.

Nikki: The air date one on this one is September 17, 1990.

Nikki: So we are almost perfectly on cycle this season.

Nikki: September 17?

Salina: Oh, yeah.

Nikki: We're close to September 17 today, so.

Salina: This will be fun.

Salina: Happy call, y'all.

Nikki: We're calling this one Mary Jo gets engaged.

Nikki: And it's written by Pam Norris and directed by David Trainor.

Nikki: So we usually do this general it's a reminder.

Nikki: Salina, we usually do general reactions and stray observations.

Nikki: Do you have a general reaction you want to start with?

Salina: Well, I do, but it's not necessarily about this episode.

Salina: I think it's just like, we're off.

Nikki: To a great start.

Salina: It's about like season five in general.

Salina: But it is the thing that hit me as a like we were sitting down and doing our preview of the season and I queued this up and I was kind of somewhere between a little sad and bittersweet because I know we have a finite amount of time left with Suzanne and Charlene or Delta Burke and Jean Smart.

Salina: And for us, we don't know what we're doing after this season for sure.

Salina: So, yeah, I'm having feelings.

Nikki: Anxiety.

Nikki: Oh, I'm sorry.

Salina: Not really, though, but like a pinch.

Salina: But it's just sad.

Salina: It's going to be sad to see them not here anymore.

Nikki: Maybe I've compartmentalized my feelings on that or maybe I'm excited for what the future could hold because this has been a lot of Designing Women and it's a great show.

Nikki: There's a lot of great chemistry between this cast.

Nikki: But I'm kind of excited at the thought of potentially meeting new characters on Designing Women or meeting new characters somewhere else.

Nikki: So I haven't really processed it that way.

Nikki: And usually I do.

Nikki: I'm a very sentimental sort of sad.

Salina: Sally kind of we're obviously a long time from here, and it's no spoiler that Suzanne is leaving, but the very last shot of her, like, in the very last episode, I almost cried.

Nikki: I haven't seen it yet.

Nikki: I still have, like, three episodes left in the season.

Nikki: That may be why.

Salina: Still previewing.

Nikki: Yes.

Nikki: Yeah, man, I got things.

Nikki: I could come up with excuses, but I don't have any good ones.

Nikki: That may be why I think I'm also sort of in all seriousness, I think I'm kind of like spreading it out a little bit because once it's done, it's done.

Nikki: And that is where Sad Sally comes into play.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: I get emotional about it.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: So maybe that's why I'm not having that.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Yeah, I hear you.

Nikki: Maybe I'll watch that one in real time.

Nikki: Maybe I won't even preview that.

Nikki: Oh, that would be interesting.

Salina: Yeah, that would be interesting.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: And then I wouldn't have to watch it for a couple months for anyone.

Salina: Else, but it would totally be interesting.

Nikki: It's like when I watch Gilmore Girls, I usually skip the last few episodes.

Nikki: I've seen that show on series.

Nikki: Or King of Queens.

Nikki: I haven't watched the last season of King of Queens in a really long time.

Nikki: One, because it's not my favorite, but also because it makes me sad, so I tend to avoid the last few episodes.

Nikki: There's one show, one show that I love, like the Middle or something like that, where I still haven't seen the final episodes because I just refuse.

Nikki: Maybe Modern Family.

Nikki: I just sort of refuse.

Nikki: Yeah, because then it's over.

Salina: That's so funny.

Salina: I have a friend that well, let's just go ahead and pull this bandaid off.

Salina: We have a patreon, and she does the same thing.

Salina: And her name's you know, my friend Sarah is often complaining because of Alyssa's love for not letting a show go.

Salina: There's, like, a string of shows.

Salina: Alyssa gets it.

Salina: She never knows the end of shows, which can be quite different.

Salina: Game of Thrones?

Salina: Anyone?

Salina: I mean, if you just watch the first couple seasons and you don't tune back in, I got some shocks for you.

Nikki: You missed some things.

Nikki: I appreciate that about Alyssa.

Nikki: She gets it.

Salina: She gets it.

Nikki: Well, all of my general reactions are so superficial compared to that Salina.

Salina: Oh, I'm getting there.

Nikki: Okay, so give me some superficial so I don't feel so everything else that.

Salina: Was like, a general reaction for me, I have to say, was about Mary Jo and Daryl.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: So for me, their body language and the chemistry between Annie Potts and the guy who plays him, Christopher Tabori sorry, Christopher, if I'm not getting your name right.

Salina: Read more intimate than Platonic to So, which I thought was working against this whole, oh, Lord, if only we were attracted to one another, then we could be together.

Salina: But they're like cuddling on the couch.

Salina: They're all wrapped up with each other and very affectionate.

Salina: And I just have to say, from a personal standpoint, like growing up in middle school, high school, into my early twenty s, I usually had a best guy friend.

Salina: And I can tell you one thing, we weren't often cuddling.

Salina: And if we were, we weren't just friends anymore.

Salina: You know what I'm saying?

Salina: So that kind of threw me off a little bit.

Salina: There were some cut lines that I think could have helped with that, including maybe them trying to kiss.

Salina: I think if maybe we had seen that well, either I would have thought, these two are on fire, or I would have been like, oh, okay, yeah, there's nothing there.

Salina: But they took that away, and so.

Nikki: Now we'll never know if only we'd watch the DVDs.

Salina: Is that better?

Nikki: Well, yeah.

Nikki: And you've stolen, like, three of my points throughout the episode because number one, general reaction about that plotline is that was such an awkward plotline.

Nikki: I can't everything about it just gave me the skeebie heebies.

Nikki: It was partly because they were overly intimate, which is a really great observation, because I hate this idea of saying women and men can't just be friends.

Nikki: Which feels like what the takeaway is here by me giving this feedback, like, they can't just be friends, but also the way that was played up in the episode gives that vibe.

Nikki: Like, they can't just be friends.

Nikki: They have to be cuddly on the couch or whatever.

Salina: Right?

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: And it was just an awkward in general plotline.

Salina: It's a bump point.

Salina: Like, you're just bumping on it.

Nikki: What is a bump point?

Salina: I made it up.

Nikki: Perfect.

Nikki: Got it.

Nikki: Yeah, I'm just bumping on yeah.

Nikki: Yeah, I like that.

Nikki: So, yeah, that was one of my general reactions.

Nikki: I also think Anthony's reaction to the women's lack of understanding about why the antebellum period may be a bit awkward for him.

Nikki: That, to me, was another as I'm watching the episode, it's very challenging for me to disentangle the women's naivete around that.

Nikki: And Anthony and his reaction to it all, they were just so luckily, he.

Salina: Got the best lines of the episode, for sure.

Salina: And so I think that helped.

Salina: And that's all.

Salina: We can unpack those if we want to.

Salina: That's in my likes, for sure, because I agree with you.

Salina: Usually it's almost like you kind of see it on their faces once he says something, but yeah, the romanticizing of that is something alarming.

Salina: I don't know.

Nikki: Alarming.

Nikki: And also, I think, just disingenuous.

Nikki: So we'll get to this later, I think, in the season when we talk about World War II era again and how we romanticize that.

Nikki: So I'll just stop here to say I think it's disingenuous that they would never have a stop moment where they're like, wait, Anthony, help us understand your perspective.

Nikki: What are we not getting right?

Nikki: I think I think they would be inclined to do that.

Nikki: And we just skip right over it by giving Anthony some funny lines, by making it a humor moment instead of an educational moment.

Nikki: So I don't know, I didn't love that, but I loved his reaction, for sure.

Salina: Yeah, he's hilarious, as always.

Salina: I mean, it's hard, right?

Salina: Because you have 22 minutes, so that might be their way of or like, it's 22 minutes and we're at 1990, so I think that's like the best way they could think of to handle it at the time.

Salina: It feels very of the times.

Salina: I agree that well, first of all, I don't even think they would touch this plotline with a ten foot pole now, to be honest.

Salina: But if they did, I think it would be much more from Anthony's perspective because of the fact that all of the obvious things about why we should not romanticize antebellum, period.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: It's just OD to me.

Nikki: We've spent quite a bit of time on World War II in a Southern show and very little time talking about the truths of the Annabellum period.

Salina: I'm going to ask this and you're going to look at me and say, why are you asking me this question?

Salina: But I think that's an LBT thing.

Salina: Doesn't she have some sort of love for World War II?

Nikki: Why are you asking me this?

Salina: I know.

Nikki: Yeah, you may be right.

Nikki: And it's a bump point for me.

Nikki: As I was watching this, I was thinking, it's funny, but did we give that the full attention that it probably deserved?

Nikki: No, because we were watching Mary Jo and her hoop skirt weird best friend cuddle on the couch.

Nikki: That too.

Nikki: And we were getting Charlene's Yiddish sprinkled throughout the episode.

Salina: I like that.

Nikki: Do you know my Mohel story?

Salina: No, but I would like to know it if you want to share it.

Nikki: So there's this TikTok trend where what is a word that you learned is pronounced differently, embarrassingly, late in your life.

Nikki: And I just saw one of these videos yesterday about wine.

Nikki: This woman thought the wine was pronounced Chilable and she didn't know anything about wine, obviously, but she thought it was pronounced Chilabla.

Nikki: So she told all her friends, oh, I found this wine I love, it's called Chilable.

Nikki: And they were like, I've never heard of that.

Nikki: And she leaned in and she was like, no, it's Chilablay.

Nikki: She found out a couple of years later.

Nikki: It's actually chillable, not chilablay.

Salina: I didn't even know.

Salina: I was like, even if she no matter what she's talking about, I think there's also, like, not understanding of what she's treating, period.

Nikki: So I have to say, a couple of years into working, I was working on something.

Salina: I know what it is, but go on.

Nikki: Not much context offer except the word Mohel, M-O-H-E-L showed up and I very confidently in a meeting said, Mohel.

Nikki: Yeah, it's MOIL.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: And I learned that later and I remain embarrassed about it, but because I am humble, I will own that I made that mistake and I learned from it.

Nikki: And I'm still embarrassed.

Salina: I have one too, and it just happened a couple of years ago and I'm having a total brain fart.

Salina: And I guarantee you my friends know.

Salina: Oh, I know what it is.

Nikki: What is it?

Salina: It's awry.

Nikki: Awry auri.

Nikki: Oh, that's tough.

Salina: Tough like a kick in the shin in the face.

Salina: And honestly, I use awry.

Salina: I thought they were two slightly different shades of the same thing, but one is like a little bit more intense.

Salina: I can't even but I felt really good when I was listening to another podcast about West Wing and a guy who used to be on West Wing did the same thing and we both figured it out at like the same age.

Nikki: English is really hard.

Nikki: These words kyle, as a child thought the word chaos, C-H-A-O-S.

Nikki: He thought it was Chachos his mind even like added extra letters.

Salina: Yeah, something's happening there.

Nikki: I played a computer game when I was a kid.

Nikki: The girl's name was Penelope.

Nikki: I thought it was Penelope until I was like twelve.

Nikki: I thought the name Penelope was Penelope.

Salina: Well that's like French, right?

Nikki: Penelope?

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: Maybe.

Salina: Anytime you hear like a beautiful word, it's usually not English, honestly.

Salina: Or it's not derived from English because everything is like it's why it was the language of science.

Salina: Because everything is very succinct and other languages are flowery and whatever.

Nikki: Well, I just try to add a little flower to everything.

Salina: That's nice.

Nikki: That's what I'm going for.

Salina: Yeah, well, so anyways, I wanted to share the awry with you because thank you.

Salina: I didn't want you to be sitting over there alone.

Nikki: I really appreciate that.

Nikki: I'm so embarrassed.

Salina: We'll be together on that.

Salina: Especially since it was in a meeting.

Salina: God bless you.

Nikki: We go down together and like with gusto.

Nikki: I thought I was really culturally sensitive on that one.

Salina: We're all trying.

Nikki: We're all trying.

Salina: That's the bottom line here.

Salina: Speaking of trying and failing timeline, speaking of things we bumped on, I did timeline of Daryl and Mary Jo.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: That just didn't make any sense to me.

Nikki: So like, being friends as young adults.

Salina: In Atlanta at 27 when she was probably still married yeah.

Nikki: Oh, I didn't think too hard about it.

Salina: And I was sitting there and I was like, what?

Salina: And I'm not going to go into I don't have to go into all this specific.

Nikki: Could you imagine her being married to Ted and cuddling up next to Daryl on the couch?

Salina: I think that would be yeah, but only if it was sexual, since Ted was stepping out on her all the time.

Nikki: That's true.

Salina: But for me, I was just going to say in terms of like and I guess we could file this under strays, but I was going to say it's like an Anthony's grandma situation.

Nikki: Is she in Alabama?

Salina: Is she in Tennessee?

Salina: And I think what we can take away from this is like, maybe the show didn't like that.

Salina: Didn't really details somewhere over here.

Salina: It's like, whatever's helped for us in the moment.

Nikki: And they never thought we'd watch it like this.

Salina: That's right.

Nikki: They never knew.

Salina: That's right.

Salina: Speaking of strays, do we just want to hop skedaddle on into that skidaddle?

Nikki: I think the only thing I had to add here was some of the cut lines that you alluded to.

Nikki: So we had some cut lines from Anthony.

Nikki: When Charlene says the antebellum period was neat, anthony says, oh, yes.

Nikki: How I long for those days to return.

Nikki: They cut some lines.

Nikki: They say, really?

Nikki: He says yes.

Nikki: The fun of working in the field with 600 of my closest friends.

Nikki: US ratling our chains rhythmically to one of those wonderful old spirituals.

Nikki: That's nice, Anthony.

Nikki: I didn't know you felt that way.

Nikki: So there was even a little bit more there.

Salina: Oh, I don't even think I caught that last bit with the response.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: It's like not getting through it's.

Nikki: Charlene and I think they are really trying to play her up as dumb this season and possibly like, last season.

Nikki: So I think they're trying to make her really dense, but I just don't believe she'd be that dense.

Salina: Like a phoebe.

Nikki: Correct.

Nikki: And she's funny, but I just think it's unfair to there was she is.

Salina: Like a sensitive yeah, yeah.

Nikki: She would know that she's supposed to be reading something into this.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: Anyhow, putting that to the side, there were also some cut lines between Mary Jo and Daryl, like you said, sort of like leading up to a little bit more of a romantical sort of interlude between the two of them.

Nikki: They were discussing not having chemistry and him trying to convince her that even without chemistry, everything else they have, they're still doing better than 75% of marriages.

Nikki: And when I read all those cut lines in context of the rest of the episode, it actually helped me understand Mary Jo's yes.

Nikki: A little bit more.

Nikki: It felt like a really hard no and then a sudden yes, which just felt like, I know she has a history of being kind of weak and giving in to people or whatever, but that felt I don't know about that.

Nikki: There was more discussion.

Nikki: Not a ton, but like, a little bit more.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: So I think that was the only stray.

Nikki: I have a stray about costumes, but I think that's about it for me.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: So Mary Jo and Darryl defined old and decrepit as age 35 like a bullet to my heart.

Nikki: I just have ignored that so many times.

Salina: I'm like I can't stop thinking about.

Nikki: It, just keeping past it.

Salina: I don't know if at 27 I thought because that's what they were like, oh, we were 27.

Salina: I don't know if at 27, I thought 35 was old and decrepit, probably because I was like, I'm going to be there before I know it, so don't want to be saying those things.

Nikki: At 27, you feel a little bit yeah.

Nikki: At 27, you feel like you're just a hop, skip and a jump away from 30, and 35 isn't that far from 30.

Salina: Some of the words that I regret more than any is when I looked at someone when I was 19 who was a friend of mine and I was in the restaurant industry.

Salina: So you were just friends with people of all ages, depending on what you said.

Nikki: We'll know if you were a real friend or not.

Salina: Well, and they just turned 27.

Salina: We were, like, celebrating their birthday, and I was like, getting up there, aren't we?

Salina: And it will haunt me till my dying day, so just listen.

Nikki: How old were they?

Nikki: I'm sorry.

Salina: They were turning 27.

Nikki: That's rough.

Salina: And I was 19.

Nikki: That's rough.

Salina: And that to me felt like that was like you were just walking a.

Nikki: Fine line, but also on brand for a 19 year old.

Salina: Totally.

Salina: But what I would say and I heard someone saying something super rude at the grocery store, like, not realizing it the other day, like, the person checking out and the person, like, bagging the groceries and not super rude, just very ageist.

Salina: And I was, like, laughing because I almost cracked a joke.

Salina: Like, where is she?

Salina: If I can hobble out to my car.

Salina: But then I decided to pull it back because that sounded like a joke my mom will make.

Salina: No offense, mom.

Nikki: Well, you are 38.

Salina: And I know, right?

Salina: Old enough to be cracking jokes that aren't funny to the 16 year olds.

Salina: But anyways, I just want to take every person that age by the shoulders and be like, don't say it, because you will live to regret the words.

Salina: And that's the lesson.

Salina: Yeah, that's the lesson.

Nikki: That's the lesson.

Salina: It creeps up on you faster than you know.

Salina: That.

Nikki: And the lesson of, do you really want to be the 19 year old that doesn't understand pop culture?

Nikki: Before the year you were born, you and I, this is like a real point sticking point for you and me, but I had a similar interaction at the grocery store where they were talking about it was Ninja Turtles or something.

Nikki: Like, it wasn't the most obscure thing.

Nikki: And this 18 year old was like, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Nikki: That must have been in the was just like you could just educate yourself a little bit and not sound so ignorant.

Nikki: Yeah, I hate that so much.

Salina: Also, have you not looked around the world today?

Salina: There's, like, been 18 reboots, and it.

Nikki: Wasn'T exactly the Ninja Turtles, but it was something they probably should have known.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: So there are, like, different kinds of teenagers, and some of them make really obnoxious jokes about age, which I think we've all done, and some of them act stupid.

Nikki: Yeah, don't be the act stupid one.

Nikki: Just learn listen to our podcast and learn about Designing Women.

Salina: Absolutely.

Salina: And I can't tell you just the oodles and oodles oodles and noodles of Gen Zers who are like, oh, yeah, I love me some Designing Women, but there are a few.

Nikki: Where are you?

Nikki: Gen zers.

Nikki: Let me know.

Nikki: Yeah, because I love Gen Z.

Nikki: I want to be super clear about that.

Nikki: I love them.

Salina: Oh.

Salina: I'm not doing the whole, like, generation on generation angsty.

Salina: I don't care.

Salina: I'm getting old.

Salina: I know it.

Salina: It's fine.

Salina: We don't have to hate.

Salina: We can love.

Nikki: I think they're going to change the world, and I feel really strongly that we need to protect them.

Nikki: That's nice, but don't be stupid.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: It's going to be good.

Nikki: It's going to be good.

Salina: Okay, so speaking of strays, like, the stray we just had look here, I'm going to go back to another stray, which is something that I was thinking about while preparing for this episode, is one of the concepts is this people selling history versus caring about history?

Salina: Julia specifically talks about turning historical homes into theme parks, et cetera.

Salina: So that put me on the hunt to see, like so Pam Norris wrote this episode.

Salina: Was there something bubbling up in the news at the time that inspired this one?

Salina: I couldn't really find anything from then, but I did find a 2019 Washington Post article, and the larger purpose of the article isn't as important.

Salina: I mean, I find it interesting, but I won't take everyone down my museum path.

Salina: But thank you.

Salina: There was I almost gave you I saw that a curator was quoted on historical homes and spoke to having to decide between authenticity and storytelling.

Salina: They could use an authentic piece of furniture, but it's really beat up and it looks terrible.

Salina: Or they could get a reproduction that's in good condition, and then that provides a better idea of what it would have actually looked like in a given time period.

Nikki: But it wouldn't have been in color.

Salina: What?

Nikki: Because the world was black and white back then.

Salina: Oh, okay.

Nikki: That's not really what it looked like.

Salina: Yes, absolutely.

Salina: But that was something that had never really occurred to me before.

Salina: But that makes total sense.

Salina: Also, just in thinking about the historical homes piece and related to them bouncing through these homes and the Annabellum Garb, are we the general?

Salina: We partially responsible then, for some of our worst Southern stereotypes persisting.

Nikki: Did you notice that Mary Jo looks like Little Bo Peep?

Salina: Who?

Nikki: She plays in Toy Story.

Salina: Oh, she does.

Salina: That's a great observation.

Nikki: And then, of course, Julia looks like Scarlett O'Hara, which I think was intended as well.

Nikki: This stance she's taking I'm showing Salina pictures now.

Nikki: This stance she's taking on the balcony area of her house.

Nikki: In a very hoop SKIRTY dress.

Nikki: But I know that wasn't intentional.

Nikki: I know Mary Jo or her looking like little Bo Peep was not intentional.

Salina: But that is uncanny.

Salina: I didn't think about that at all.

Salina: But, yeah, maybe somebody did see it.

Salina: Look at her.

Salina: Look at a little bo peep.

Nikki: Do you have more strays?

Nikki: Or could I sidebar us for a second?

Salina: If I haven't sidebarred us enough, you please sidebar.

Nikki: Let's do it.

Nikki: Let's sidebar it's a sidebar.

Nikki: Nikki sidebar.

Nikki: She's got a keyboard.

Nikki: Looking for a reward by digging deep in the obscure, taking us on a detour.

Nikki: What you got, Mickey?

Nikki: Mickey sidebar.

Nikki: There's just enough time that passes that I forget what those sound like.

Salina: It will never not thrill me so good.

Nikki: So in all the time we've been doing this podcast, I don't think we've actually dedicated time to talking about villa Marie, which is how it's pronounced.

Nikki: That is the designing women house.

Salina: Not anything substantial that I recall.

Nikki: So about a year ago it was a year ago, Salina, that listener, Colleen emailed us because she visited on a trip with her mom.

Salina: That's right.

Salina: Hi, Colleen.

Nikki: Hi, Colleen.

Nikki: I know it was a year ago because I went back in our email because she sent us some pictures.

Nikki: At the time, I would have thought.

Salina: That was 14 and one half years ago.

Nikki: Really?

Nikki: Because I would have thought it was like two months ago.

Nikki: Time has no meaning.

Nikki: So since we had the episode sort of all about the house in the designing women's show, I thought, let's finally just talk about it.

Nikki: Let's talk about it.

Nikki: So this sidebar was going to get really long.

Nikki: So I'm actually going to cut out sort of a sidewinder story about the people who built villa Marie, and I'm going to leave that for our patreon friends, and then we'll talk a little bit about both villa Marie.

Nikki: But then actually the point was to talk about Atlanta homes that are historic, so we're also going to talk about that.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: So buckle up, friends.

Nikki: So we've all talked about the fact actually, I should say villa Marie is not located in Atlanta.

Nikki: They say it's in Atlanta.

Nikki: You okay?

Salina: Yeah, it's got a little itch.

Nikki: They say it's in Atlanta for the show, but actually it's located in little rock, Arkansas.

Nikki: So it was actually built in 1881 by Angelo and Jeannie Marie at 1321 Scott street in little Rock.

Nikki: So Marie amassed a fortune in the, quote, liquor and saloon business, and that's what he used to build the home.

Salina: I bet you he did.

Nikki: So building Villa Marie took a year, and its initial worth was estimated at $5,000, $5,000.

Nikki: As our patreon listeners just heard, angelo only got to live in it for a handful of years before he died of blood poisoning in 1889.

Nikki: Jenny lived there until she died in 1904.

Nikki: According to an article I read after their deaths, it was used as a nursing home, a rental property, a dance studio, and an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting facility before it was condemned by the city in 1964.

Salina: Well, now, that's irony.

Salina: What's that?

Salina: Well, it was the saloon money that put them in, and then they rehabbed.

Nikki: That's true.

Salina: The saloon attendees.

Nikki: Thank you, Angelo.

Nikki: So at the last minute, before it could be torn down, the owner sold the house for $11,550 to the owner of a successful furniture company who then spent two years renovating it and then sold it to an organization dedicated to historic preservation.

Nikki: It was placed on the National Register of Historic Places in 1970, and ultimately it became a private home in 2002.

Nikki: Most recently, it was purchased in 2019 by attorney and former Arkansas General Assembly member Steve Harrelson.

Nikki: As far as I can tell, it was listed for sale in 2017 at almost a million dollars.

Nikki: It was removed from the market and relisted a few months later for $675,000.

Nikki: It finally sold a year later for $463,000.

Nikki: So a million, 600, 400.

Nikki: It's like, subtly going down.

Nikki: I did just a smidge more digging because I was like, holy crap, that's a huge drop in price.

Nikki: I do think they parceled up the property a little bit and sold one segment of the property and then sold the house.

Nikki: So that accounts for some of it.

Nikki: But also, Harrelson said it needed, like, a ton of work and it was going to be a huge project for him.

Nikki: So I honestly just think he haggled the price down a little bit.

Nikki: In terms of the house itself, I found a few sources that said it is a high style Italianate house, two stories in height with a flared mansured roof and a two and a half story tower set above its entry, which is built of painted brick.

Nikki: According to real estate listings, the house has huge oversized rooms, two parlors dining rooms, large vintage kitchen, sweeping staircase, one and a half baths, and three bedrooms.

Salina: Wow.

Nikki: So that's Villa Marie.

Nikki: And if it isn't in Atlanta, does that mean there aren't any historic homes in Atlanta?

Nikki: Salina.

Salina: What?

Nikki: There are historic homes in Atlanta.

Salina: You just broke my brain.

Salina: They're like, I want to say no, but I'm like, I'm pretty sure I've been I almost worked at a historic home in Atlanta, but now I'm confused.

Nikki: There are a lot, and there are actually some older than that house.

Nikki: So I found a top ten article on Explore Atlanta that I'll link to.

Nikki: Kind of the full article in the show notes, but I'll limit this to the top five oldest houses on that list.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: Because I'm generous like that.

Nikki: I also feel like there's maybe one other house that's not included on that list that was built in 1840, but I genuinely couldn't figure out if this place is still standing or not.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: It's called the Joseph Willis house.

Nikki: So it's possible that should be on my list, and it's not, but I can't figure out if it's still around.

Nikki: Okay.

Nikki: And then if people are nice, we might do a little bit of a spooky segment related to this closer to Halloween.

Salina: Oh, be nice.

Salina: Be nice.

Nikki: So the first home on our list is the Joel Chandler Harris home.

Nikki: Or Ren's Nest or Snap Bean Farm.

Salina: That's where I almost worked.

Salina: Oh, well, there you go.

Salina: Because it's a museum now historical home.

Nikki: So it's a Queen Anne style house located at 1050 Ralph D.

Nikki: Abernathy Boulevard, southwest in Atlanta.

Nikki: It was built sometime around 1870 by Atlantan George Muse, who owned a clothing store that operated in Atlanta for more than 100 years.

Salina: I live there at the clothing store.

Salina: Muses.

Nikki: Oh, well, there you go.

Salina: It's all coming together.

Nikki: It sure is.

Nikki: Glad you're here.

Salina: What do you have next?

Nikki: I'm glad you're here.

Nikki: The home was ultimately purchased by Joel Chandler Harris, who was the editor of The Atlanta Constitution.

Nikki: And as I think we've talked about here before, the author of The Uncle Remus Tales.

Salina: That's correct.

Nikki: He started renting the home in 1881 and then ultimately bought it two years later with the money that he earned from the Uncle Remus Stories.

Nikki: He lived there until his death in 1908.

Nikki: He added a few new rooms and completely overhauled the facade of the home, leaving it with the Queen Anne style it has today.

Nikki: So it originally didn't look like it does today.

Nikki: He remodeled it around 1900.

Nikki: He added indoor plumbing, electricity, and a furnace.

Nikki: The house became known, so they called it Snap Bean Farm when they first moved there because it was still kind of like farmland back in the 18 hundreds.

Nikki: Sure.

Nikki: Even though today it's like, in the heart of downtown.

Nikki: It became known as the Wren's Nest in 1900, after the Harris children found a wren had built a nest in the mailbox.

Salina: Simple.

Nikki: They built a whole new mailbox just to leave the nest undisturbed.

Nikki: Isn't that lovely?

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: So like you said a minute ago, the house operates as a museum now, or like I said.

Nikki: I said that.

Nikki: You didn't say that.

Nikki: You said historic home.

Salina: It's a cool house.

Nikki: It's really beautiful.

Nikki: It looks really beautiful.

Nikki: So the second house on my list, so this would be the fourth oldest house that I'm going to talk about today is the G.

Nikki: W.

Nikki: Collier House.

Nikki: This house is so old, some people have even mistaken it as the oldest house in Atlanta.

Nikki: But it's not.

Nikki: There are three older houses on my list.

Nikki: It was built in 1868, which is twelve years later than even the next home.

Nikki: So it's definitely not the oldest.

Nikki: It still stands today in the Ansley Park neighborhood of Atlanta at 1649 Lady Marion Lane.

Nikki: It's believed that Wash Collier, or George Washington Collier, built it after a house his father had built in the 1820s experienced severe damage, probably during the summer of 1864.

Nikki: Wash owned a grocery store in the Little Five Points area of Atlanta and eventually he became the city's first postmaster.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: I was waiting for you to be like seven under and I was going to be like, I've shopped there.

Nikki: I don't know about that.

Nikki: I read about him.

Nikki: So the postmaster is basically the guy in charge of the mail and Wash would make a once a week trip up to Roswell, I think it was.

Salina: By foot, ten days by foot.

Salina: Oh my gosh.

Nikki: By foot?

Salina: No.

Nikki: And he would do it regardless of the weather.

Salina: Wow.

Salina: Well, that's kind of their thing.

Nikki: It is.

Nikki: As a result, he is known as one of Atlanta's best known citizens in the 19th century.

Nikki: He was kind of just really influential in Atlanta at that time.

Nikki: Between himself, if you see me looking.

Salina: Down, it's because I'm sneakily linking him.

Nikki: Between himself and his brothers.

Nikki: They owned hundreds of acres of land along Peachtree Road.

Salina: Oh, how nice for them.

Nikki: And how his family sold off that land, a process that began in about 1890 hugely influenced Peachtree Road, which is the segment from 14th street to W.

Nikki: Wesley Road hugely influenced the way that piece of land looks today.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: Wesley Road is named for Collier's brother, Wesley.

Salina: Isn't that cool?

Nikki: Anyway, the house was owned by Wash's family until after World War II.

Nikki: It's one of Atlanta's few structures to survive the Reconstruction era.

Nikki: It was preserved and restored by the noted architect R.

Nikki: Kennan Perry in 1952 to 1953, and it's one of the earliest examples of modern historic preservation in the city.

Nikki: Interesting.

Nikki: The next house on the list is Meadow Nook, a Greek revival styled home built in 1856.

Nikki: It's located at 24 20 Alston Drive in the eastlake neighborhood in DeKalb County.

Nikki: It is one of only a couple antebellum homes still standing in their original locations within the city limits.

Nikki: This next sentence, hearing that within the city limits makes this next part a little bit of a brain break.

Nikki: Meadow Nook was the country home of Lieutenant Colonel Robert Augustus Alston and his wife.

Nikki: They were both of Georgetown County, South Carolina.

Nikki: Robert Alston was a journalist and a legislator who was murdered at the Georgia State Capitol in 1879 as a result of his ongoing exposes of the abusive convict labor leasing system.

Salina: Oh.

Nikki: As far as I can tell, I know there's a story there.

Nikki: The house is privately owned, so I couldn't get like tons of specifics about the inside of the house.

Salina: I wouldn't have thought that that was that old.

Nikki: That old.

Nikki: I think that about a lot of the houses on this list.

Nikki: They really don't look that old when.

Salina: It'S probably because a lot of people are hearkening back to this kind of style, sort of like the farmhouse style and I get confused.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Pretty though.

Nikki: So I found a photo tour from a few years ago on AJC, which I've linked in the show notes for folks to look at.

Nikki: This last bit was just interesting to me.

Nikki: One source indicated that it sold in 1994.

Nikki: It last sold in 1994 for $77,000.

Salina: Wow.

Nikki: It is worth over 700,000 today, according to, like, Zestimates.

Nikki: I actually think it's probably worth a whole lot more than that.

Salina: Sure.

Salina: Priceless.

Nikki: Really.

Nikki: Priceless.

Nikki: That's what I say.

Nikki: So the same year that Meadow Nook was built, 1856, the Lemuel P.

Nikki: Grant mansion was also built.

Salina: I'm never going to be able to spell that.

Nikki: It's linked in the show notes.

Nikki: Salina, it is the other of only a few antebellum homes still standing in their original locations within the Atlanta city limits.

Nikki: This is where that house I mentioned at the top of the segment that I can't substantiate, that's where that's relevant, because if that one's still standing, these were the only three antebellum homes still standing in the city.

Nikki: So this house lives on St.

Nikki: Paul Avenue between Broils and Grant Street in the Grant Park neighborhood of Atlanta.

Nikki: So it was owned by Lemuel P.

Nikki: Grant, who was a railroad man, a major landowner, and a civil leader in Atlanta during this time.

Nikki: He donated the land for Grant Park, which is named after him.

Nikki: The mansion is a three story Italianate style, so similar to Villa Marie, with ten foot windows, nine fireplaces, and a ballroom.

Nikki: During the Civil War, it served as a Confederate hospital, but Union troops didn't burn it down because they found Masonic items, and they had been directed not to disturb homes affiliated with the Freemasons.

Nikki: Which also feels like there's something there that we should look into at some point.

Salina: Oh, my.

Salina: I agree.

Nikki: Notably, golfer Bobby Jones was born in the home in 1902.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: He went on to found Augusta National, where the Masters is held every year, which you know is a sweet spot for me.

Nikki: The last house on my list, I swear I'm coming to the end because I'm getting, like, a glazed look.

Salina: Are you kidding me?

Salina: This is my jam.

Nikki: It's a weakness, right?

Salina: So I was actually going to comment and say that this is a real sleeper home for me, not like a sleeper cell.

Salina: I am looking at this and they're calling it a mansion.

Salina: And it's like, there's so many Atlanta houses.

Salina: You see just the front, and it doesn't look like much, but then you go inside and you're like, whoa, this.

Nikki: One has a ballroom and nine fireplaces.

Salina: Right?

Salina: Exactly.

Salina: And that's the vibe I'm getting from this one.

Nikki: So the last one on the list is the oldest house on my list.

Nikki: It's the Tully Smith house.

Nikki: It was built in 1840.

Nikki: This one EKS in on the list on a technicality because it actually originally sat outside city limits, but it was eventually moved to Buckhead, 4 miles away.

Nikki: So it originally was off north through it hills, moved 4 miles away to Buckhead to the campus of the atlanta History Center.

Nikki: So it is now the oldest home in Atlanta.

Nikki: Just not originally standing in Atlanta.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: So it was originally built as a family home just off north through It Hills.

Nikki: Like I said, it is the quote.

Nikki: This is, according to an AJC article, the epitome of a Georgia plantation plain style home with weatherboard siding, a gable shed style roof, masonry chimneys, interior boarded walls to match the outside, and classically cased window trim and doors.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: The Atlanta History Center website adds that the house has a two story front and a one story rear.

Nikki: It's an eye house, meaning it's two rooms wide, one room deep, and two stories high.

Nikki: The detached kitchen located behind the house was constructed around the same time as the house itself.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: You know what this kind of puts me in the mind of is the area they have set up.

Salina: They used to have set up at Stone Mountain, and you could go around, you could see all of the different buildings.

Salina: And it reminds me a lot of that because I guess this is part of the Smith farm.

Nikki: That's right.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: That's right.

Nikki: They want you to get kind of the full experience.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: So the home was built and owned by Robert Hiram Smith, who came to Atlanta by Hiram?

Salina: Oh, sorry.

Salina: That's in Georgia.

Nikki: Y'all by way of Rutherford County, North Carolina.

Nikki: He moved here around 1830 and settled into Cab County.

Nikki: I don't actually know if there's a tie between him and Hiram, Georgia, but that's interesting.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: Maybe he was a farmer.

Nikki: He had somewhere between eleven and 19 enslaved people who lived on his property and worked about 200 of his 800 acres of land for farming.

Nikki: Robert and his wife Elizabeth lived there until about 1875 when he died and she moved away.

Nikki: They left ownership of the house to their daughter, Tully, the Tully Smith house until she died in 1967.

Nikki: So throughout the 1960s, Tully was worried about what was going to happen to this house because development in that area, which was the North Druid Hills area of Atlanta, was kind of sneaking toward the house and she was really worried, but she actually didn't make any plans for it.

Salina: So after she died, that's how I.

Nikki: Worry, just not doing anything.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: I'm like, oh, this is I'm worried.

Nikki: I'll just sit.

Nikki: It's my comfortable place.

Salina: Marinate in it.

Salina: It's my comfortable this is going to get bad.

Nikki: After she died, though, whoever was left in her family gave it to the Atlanta History Center, and then it was quickly thereafter moved to its current location, which I said was in Buckhead.

Nikki: The move is fascinating to read about.

Nikki: I think it's mentioned in one of the show Note articles that I link.

Nikki: Basically, they had to separate the first floor from the second floor and move it on a truck.

Salina: I would be so nervous for sure.

Nikki: So there are several more houses on the list.

Nikki: And like I said, I have a spooky segment which is going to talk about a couple of these houses, but I'm going to take advantage of some of the other historic buildings and houses in Atlanta for that segment.

Salina: Spooky.

Salina: Spooky.

Salina: I love Spooky season.

Nikki: She's smiling at me, so she's being nice, which means we'll do it.

Salina: Oh, yay, I was nice.

Nikki: So then in my sidebar, obviously, I like old houses.

Nikki: What do you like about this episode of Women, Salina?

Salina: Oh, okay.

Salina: I thought you were going to ask me, like, what's my favorite historic hall.

Nikki: What'S your favorite old house in I.

Salina: Was just real quickly and I'm going to pop into but for whatever reason, I expected Rhodes Hall to be on your list.

Salina: I have no idea.

Salina: Spooky.

Nikki: It's not as old as these houses are.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: See, look at you.

Salina: You know everything about Atlanta now.

Nikki: I'll forget in six months, but I.

Salina: Wouldn'T give it the full six minutes.

Nikki: You're right.

Salina: But for today, we don't have to rehash all of this.

Salina: I just wanted to say that everything about Anthony's well placed sarcasm in this episode was appreciated by me.

Salina: So I just want to give that a shout out again.

Salina: And I think it's hilarious that today that woman's name is Karen that ran all the tours.

Nikki: I'm like, yeah, okay, that's true.

Salina: I'm like, was this the Karen?

Nikki: Anyways, I don't think we talk enough about how Anthony was so critical to this.

Nikki: Like, we oftentimes get comments on social media where people say that Delta Burke and Suzanne really carried this show.

Nikki: Anthony is such a critical piece of the show, especially in moments like this.

Nikki: And so many of his lines were sarcastic and well placed and just hit right.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: I'm also thinking about taking the what does he say?

Salina: Hold on.

Salina: I think I don't think so.

Salina: Perhaps some other time.

Salina: Say, right before we go ice skating in h***.

Salina: But thank you so much for thinking of me.

Salina: I'm thinking about taking that one to work.

Salina: I like that.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: So if you hear that come out, just know Anthony inspired it.

Nikki: Great.

Salina: What do you like?

Nikki: Suzanne had some takes on several things that I really appreciated.

Nikki: Her take on men being waxed and how they scream about hundreds of tiny little hairs being ripped out of their bodies and how ridiculous that is.

Nikki: And distracting for her spa experience.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: And her quote about history.

Nikki: Personally, I don't enjoy history.

Nikki: People said I should learn it because history repeats itself.

Nikki: If it repeats itself, why should I.

Salina: Pay attention the first time while you're talking about her, I want to throw in one more, which is like, okay.

Salina: We've talked about her facial expressions and just how good they are.

Salina: When Karen walks through and smacks her with her fan to get her to move off the couch is amazing.

Nikki: I thought her facial expression when Julia came down the stairs in costume was really good.

Nikki: I thought that's what you were going to say.

Salina: I have thoughts about that, so and that's a really good kind of segue to everything.

Salina: With the tour of homes I actually thought was pretty I don't the show is not like, oh, this is wonderful.

Salina: The show is definitely poking at all of this.

Salina: I think a lot of it for me stems from getting to see Julia react to things that she clearly hates.

Salina: One of them, in my mind, is playing second fiddle to someone else, especially in her own home.

Salina: So in this case, Karen asks her to put on some kind of outfit.

Salina: She comes down the stairs in a servant's outfit.

Salina: This is what you're talking about with Suzanne's look on her face.

Salina: I want to go back, actually and watch the episode so I can see Suzanne's face because whose face I was watching was Julia's, which was like, I'm going to kick everybody's a**.

Salina: That's what it looked like.

Salina: Rude people is another thing.

Salina: I think Julia doesn't really dig on too much.

Salina: In this case, the people who are in her home, these complete strangers.

Salina: My favorite one is the smoking tourist.

Salina: He tells Julia he didn't see any smoking signs and she says, well, just look at my that just just her whole face, shaky, angry attitude.

Nikki: She was mad.

Salina: I really understand it, is all I'm saying.

Nikki: She was big mad.

Salina: Did you have anything else?

Nikki: The last thing I'll say is I really liked the interaction between Mary Jo and Told, after Mary Jo told Suzanne her situation with Daryl was, quote, too complicated.

Nikki: And so then she proceeded to tell this really complicated situation to Charlene and Suzanne's like, excuse me, I just thought that whole interaction was really delightful.

Salina: It was good.

Nikki: Suzanne was just like, don't leave me out.

Nikki: What the heck?

Nikki: I just thought that was great.

Salina: Yeah, that was really funny and all very true to the characters, I think, too.

Salina: Also, I have to say that my other favorite part was Julia losing her mind at the very end of it all and going on a total rant.

Salina: And then everyone applauding applauding because they thought that it was part of the Torah.

Salina: I really enjoyed that.

Salina: And you already talked about Charlene's Yiddish 101 that we got throughout the episode.

Salina: But I thought it was funny and I liked her bend on it, which I like.

Salina: New things.

Salina: This seems fun.

Salina: Anyway, so I was actually going to do a Yiddish 101 quiz and I ran out of time, so you're welcome.

Salina: Mayhem.

Salina: Things we didn't like.

Nikki: I think we've talked about a few things sort of at the top of the episode.

Nikki: And I'll just double down on the storyline with Mary Jo and her best friend.

Nikki: I just really didn't like that.

Salina: It was awkward.

Nikki: It was forced.

Nikki: It was tied up too neatly.

Nikki: He has no feelings for her, but he proposed marriage anyway, she says no, and he just walks away.

Nikki: It was all just really weird.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: And the fact that they centered this as the A plot was a little weird to me, but it's just under baked and a real nothing burger for a season premiere.

Salina: Again, don't write shows, don't have a clue what I'm talking about, but just go with me on this journey.

Salina: If it were me, I would have preferred they made it the Tour of Homes, the main storyline, and just dropped the whole other thing entirely.

Salina: We could have just spent more time in that world, which was a good time.

Salina: Alternatively, if they wanted to do something with Mary Jo, and I believe that Mary Jo deserves more on this show in terms of storyline.

Salina: They could have kept the tour of homes as the A plot and then kind of played within that B plot, tightened the focus to just Mary Jo trying to figure out how to tell her son what the birds and the bees are.

Salina: Yeah, and I think they could have made that really funny.

Nikki: Or they could have even I mean, even the Daryl thing could have been an ongoing storyline or something.

Nikki: Like I said, it was just tied up too neatly.

Nikki: And as I'm watching this, as we've been watching the last few seasons, I think one of the things we've talked about a couple of times is how they don't like the continuation storylines.

Nikki: They want things to wrap up in that 30 minutes.

Nikki: They're not trying to have A part A and A part B, because that's how they did sitcoms in the late eighty s and early 90s.

Nikki: It just wasn't done that way.

Nikki: But it feels to me like this is when we could have revisited a couple of times throughout the season, because, spoiler alert, they are going to talk a little bit about Mary Jo's love life in future episodes.

Nikki: And that is a huge part of the storyline of a single mom in her mid 30s is just, like, romantically.

Nikki: What is she doing?

Nikki: I get that.

Nikki: That's natural.

Nikki: I understand that.

Nikki: But they could have even made this Darryl thing go on a little bit longer.

Nikki: Maybe don't focus so much on the proposal.

Nikki: Or not.

Nikki: Anyway, I think it was kind of a weird beginning to the season that just sort of ends, and now we're done.

Salina: Yeah, and it's so funny, too, because so you're going to have 22, 26, 100 episodes, and you don't 24, and you don't want to spend a little, like, let it breathe, guys, right?

Salina: Let it breathe.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: Then you don't have to keep coming up with new crap.

Nikki: You can just explore that storyline a little bit longer and give us a little more gratification.

Nikki: But I'm not a story writer.

Salina: You don't know what you don't know till you know it.

Salina: I know.

Nikki: That's what I always say.

Salina: You want to rate this sucker.

Nikki: Sure.

Nikki: My rating scale has a typo in it, so first I'm going to fix that.

Nikki: It is realistic antebellum home tour costumes, and I gave it a four out of a five.

Nikki: I thought it was fine for the start of season five.

Nikki: I really hope it's not the best they can bring this season, but I think, to your point, the Tour of Homes piece of it, that chunk of the episode was entertaining enough that I would watch that again.

Nikki: The Daryl Mary Jo stuff I'd probably fast forward through.

Nikki: But the tour of home stuff I would watch again.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: So I gave it three out of five.

Salina: Fudge sickle, sneezing babies.

Salina: This is part of Julia's rant.

Salina: I just didn't love this one.

Salina: It's another example of a couldn't we just do better?

Salina: Episode for Mary Jo.

Salina: Justy justice for Annie Potts, that's all.

Salina: Saying it's almost like they didn't know how to play to her strengths.

Salina: And if this had just been the Tour of Homes to your point, I think I would have rated it higher, to be honest.

Salina: And I also think, too, perhaps the lesson here is that it feels like sometimes writers are like, we got to have a love story.

Salina: Don't we just want to laugh?

Salina: That's all we want to do.

Salina: Sometimes it's nice if it's natural and it makes sense.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: And if there's a conclusion that's acceptable, like, we got the charlene storyline of finding love and falling in love and getting married.

Salina: Which took time.

Nikki: Which took time.

Nikki: Mary Jo and JD.

Nikki: Was always just like, fits and starts.

Nikki: Reese and Julia is not conclusive, in my opinion, and I have more thoughts about that later this season.

Nikki: But it fits and starts.

Nikki: You never really get a full, true.

Salina: Honest to goodness he's more off screen than on screen, right?

Salina: It's like acting or something.

Nikki: Another life.

Salina: Oh, what, you got things to do?

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: So I don't know.

Salina: It's interesting.

Salina: It's a little bit of a slow start in my mind for the season, but you know what?

Salina: We got 23 more episodes to really kick it into high gear.

Salina: So there you go.

Salina: 90s things.

Nikki: Mary Jo's comment about making it through the whole summer without buying a thong bathing suit, that's something she says at the very beginning of the episode.

Nikki: It was less about a thong bathing suit as a thing and more about a thong bathing suit as something she'd have to intentionally avoid, which made me feel like maybe it was having some sort of mainstream moment at this point in time or something.

Salina: I think that's right.

Salina: I have it on as a 90s reference.

Salina: It feels like, heyday, I did a light dive.

Nikki: I learned the thong swimsuit was invented in the thong underwear.

Nikki: Hit the mainstream in the would just.

Salina: Also argue, though, the standard cut on a bikini now is like, here's four and a half inches of each of your b*** cheeks.

Salina: And I don't really understand what's happening.

Salina: I myself 38.

Nikki: I haven't worn a bikini in ten years.

Salina: I myself like the full b*** cheek covered leave something to the imagination.

Salina: Just randomly lighting up a cigarette in some stranger's house.

Salina: Want to be clear, that feels rude in any decade.

Salina: Like, look up, look around, make sure I'm a former smoker.

Salina: You see people smoking in their home.

Salina: Wonderful, great.

Salina: Pull out the cigarettes.

Salina: But I mean, otherwise, like, calm down.

Salina: But this does feel like the last decade where that was going to happen.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: Using shower water as a water pick, that actually was, I feel like a thing that was happening in the 90s as a potential beauty, whatever.

Salina: And then Vanna White not saying she's for every decade, but Vanna Speaks is actually something that came out around that time.

Salina: Her book, and she is Southern.

Salina: She grew up in North Myrtle Beach, she attended the Atlanta School of Fashion Design, and she became one of the area's top models.

Salina: And I do feel like as I see you looking at your notes, you might have had this in references.

Salina: Did I steal something from you?

Nikki: I put it in references we need to talk about.

Nikki: But counted it as a Southern reference plus reference we need to Talk About.

Nikki: All that is true.

Salina: She just goes everywhere.

Nikki: I'll add this book was also mentioned on an episode of Golden Girls.

Salina: Oh, look at that.

Salina: Do you think they were purposely promoting it?

Nikki: I don't know.

Nikki: Maybe.

Nikki: It came out in 1987, so it was a couple of years behind.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: Would have been the nicest way to speak about it if they were purposely promoting it.

Nikki: Right.

Salina: Maybe it was making some sort of weird splash.

Nikki: I think it was making a splash.

Nikki: The book itself includes things about her touching relationship with her mother and then like, a really sad story of losing her fiance in a plane crash in.

Salina: The mid eighty s.

Salina: Oh, yeah, that's very sad.

Nikki: Sounds like a good book, though.

Salina: Well, maybe that's something to put on the list.

Salina: Do you think they have that at your local library?

Nikki: It's been a couple of weeks since I looked into it.

Nikki: I actually don't think they do.

Nikki: I think I looked it up.

Salina: Look at you.

Nikki: I think it's kind of hard to find now.

Nikki: Yeah, don't quote me on that, though.

Nikki: I might be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure it was hard to find Southern things.

Nikki: I got nothing now.

Nikki: It's like one of those things where the whole episode was Southern because it's all about antebellum, period.

Salina: How do you unpack the yeah, well.

Nikki: You did it, didn't you?

Salina: And proceed.

Salina: You're right.

Salina: I mean, the whole subplot is a Southern reference.

Salina: They're talking about the Civil War.

Salina: They're talking about Sherman's March.

Salina: They're talking about me making noises where it's going to be impossible to remove that out of the audio.

Salina: You're welcome.

Salina: The period costumes mary Jo uses the term skedaddle, which I just think is the most it's the most Southern thing.

Salina: There's a lot of Gone with the Wind like Winks in this one.

Salina: Belle Watley, she's actually more of a minor character, but I mean, definitely someone who's familiar with any of that.

Salina: You know who Belle Watley is?

Salina: As God is my witness, is something that Scarlett says.

Salina: Frankly, my dear, I don't give a d*** is probably one of the most iconic lines in all of film history from Rhett Butler.

Salina: And then there's a mention of Scarlett's hissy fits somewhere in the episode as well.

Salina: And then daryl is from North Carolina.

Salina: References we need to talk about.

Nikki: References we need to talk about.

Nikki: Vanna speaks was one.

Nikki: And then I have the guest stars, but I kind of want to let you do that one because I know that's in the section for you, too.

Salina: Oh, I don't have to.

Salina: No, you take one.

Salina: I'll take the other.

Nikki: Well, I'm going to take the fun one.

Salina: Good.

Salina: Take it.

Nikki: It's Marianne Mobley who played Karen.

Salina: Yeah, I feel silly after learning about her that I knew nothing about.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: So she was a former Miss America from Biloxi, Mississippi.

Nikki: She actually took over Dixie Carter's role on Different Strokes when Dixie Carter left to join this.

Salina: Oh, that's funny.

Salina: I didn't know that.

Nikki: Yeah, and then she joined for this episode.

Nikki: She died in 2014.

Nikki: I thought this was just a cute little story.

Nikki: And you may have more to add, but Designing Women Online says that Delta Burke asked Marianne Mobley to bring her Miss America crown to the set so she could wear it during rehearsals because it had always been a dream of hers to wear the Miss America crown.

Salina: Oh, really?

Salina: Oh, that's mean.

Salina: I guess if we're going to talk about the Miss America piece, she is most known for being one of the few winners to find success in acting.

Salina: And she had a stint on Broadway, starred opposite of Elvis in a few movies.

Salina: She won a Golden Globe in 1965 for being the most promising newcomer.

Salina: So not just someone they were, like, randomly using because of her notoriety or whatever.

Salina: She really was good.

Salina: I don't know that we got to see that in this particular episode.

Nikki: I was going to say I was surprised to read that she had actual roles because this wasn't I just think.

Salina: It was like a really like wasn't a really it's like a random guest star role.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: Unless it's Meryl Streep coming in here.

Salina: I don't know anybody's going to do something special with that.

Salina: It's like a throwaway role.

Nikki: It also felt stilted.

Nikki: Like, her lines felt stilted to me.

Nikki: Her delivery felt stilted.

Nikki: So I assumed she got this because she had been Miss America and made friends with someone somewhere.

Nikki: Massive assumption on my part.

Nikki: I take it back entirely.

Nikki: Which is why we don't make assumptions.

Nikki: But yeah, I watched the episode the first time and I was ah as.

Salina: Any one of the movie podcasts I listened to would say, they made a choice.

Salina: They made an acting choice.

Salina: So maybe it was an acting choice, I'm not sure.

Salina: I also just wanted to say too, she seems like a serious person.

Salina: She winds up becoming a distinguished documentary filmmaker.

Salina: She focused on homelessness and starvation in different countries.

Salina: And she was also active in the March of Dimes and the United Cerebral Palsy Association.

Salina: So look at just we came at it from all different angles.

Nikki: She was a complex individual.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Mary Ann mobley.

Salina: So Daryl is played by Christopher Tabori.

Salina: His dad was Don Siegel.

Salina: Did you look into him at all?

Nikki: Only so far as to write down that he did a lot of voiceover work for Star Wars related video games.

Salina: We literally went at both of these people from completely different angles.

Salina: Their interests or where we're looking, I think is what it is.

Salina: Probably just two different places because I think if I had read that, I would have included his so I focused on his dad, who is a pretty famous director.

Salina: He did lots of Clint Eastwood movies, including Dirty Harry, and his mom was a Swedish actress.

Nikki: I also remember reading he was partly Swedish, which is why his name is spelled that way.

Salina: And I pronounce it so beautifully, like Frozen's.

Salina: Christopher ah, there you go.

Salina: Christoph yeah, I can't say it all these my last reference, this has nothing to do with the actors or anything, is Julia in her diatribe.

Salina: At the very end, she names about a million drinks and other frozen treats and that just really stood out to oh.

Salina: And so I'm just real quick, I'm going to go down through them.

Salina: I'm going to name them and see if you can tell me where they're from.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: Like the store you'll buy it from.

Nikki: I'm sure I won't be able to, but go for it.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: Big Gulp.

Nikki: 711.

Salina: Slurpees.

Nikki: Slurpee, slurpee, slurpee.

Nikki: Kmart.

Salina: Am I everywhere?

Salina: School.

Nikki: Remember the slurpee machine?

Nikki: I think anyway, you tell me.

Salina: It's also 711.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: So I feel like we can't know there's so few 711s here.

Nikki: Misty's flashback misties.

Nikki: I don't know that one.

Salina: So I only knew a Mr.

Salina: Misty.

Salina: But that's Dairy Queen.

Nikki: Dairy Queen.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: It's kind of like their slushy, except in the misty they put in the froyo.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: Soft serve.

Salina: Soft serve.

Nikki: Thank you.

Salina: And then frosties.

Salina: Wendy's yeah.

Salina: So just to show the difference of the kinds of things that will take you down rabbit holes, I'm not sharing any of this, but just between us and anyone listening, I'm not sharing any of the facts, but I bet you I read about frozen treats for 1 hour.

Nikki: 711 cornered the market is what I'm hearing.

Salina: It sure did.

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: There's like a whole history of it.

Salina: I think I've linked to it in the show notes if anybody is interested about that history.

Salina: It is kind of like an American iconic beverage and all of that.

Nikki: Like the frozen drink, you mean?

Salina: It's just sort of written into the just it's almost the way like anything else that's iconic.

Salina: Like like if you're using windex most people aren't.

Salina: I'm using glass know, so kind of written into the fabric that way.

Salina: And its startup is pretty interesting and southern, I believe, because it's actually Texas.

Salina: So anyways, that's all for me.

Nikki: Find ways to cool down.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: So next episode season five, episode two, papa Was a Rolling Stone.

Nikki: I don't know why that was so hard for me to say.

Salina: Is it because you wanted to sing the song?

Nikki: I don't know.

Nikki: I'm not sure.

Nikki: We'd love everyone to follow along with us and engage Instagram and Facebook at sweet teantv TikTok at sweet tea TV pod YouTube at sweet tea TV 7371 what's up, Salina?

Nikki: Got a reaction over there.

Salina: Just that this is actually the tough part.

Nikki: Oh, email

Nikki: Maybe that's why I already started tripping over my words.

Salina: You're preparing mentally.

Nikki: And our website is WW dot

Nikki: Like Salina said at the top of the show, there are several ways to support the show.

Nikki: First and foremost, you can tell your family and friends about us.

Nikki: Anyone you think might like a Designing Women or now a 90s podcast, go ahead and tell them.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: Rate and review the podcast wherever you listen.

Nikki: The ratings and the reviews help people find us easier.

Nikki: And then if you visit our website, there's a support us tab where you can find other ways to support us.

Nikki: So come back Thursday for extra Sugar.

Salina: Where we're going to talk about 90s nostalgia.

Nikki: See, we're a 90s podcast now.

Salina: That's right, we sure are.

Salina: Look at I did that just for that.

Nikki: You did that.

Salina: We weren't actually talking about 90s nostalgia.

Salina: We were going to talk about something completely different.

Salina: And I was like, let's make this flow.

Nikki: That's how Salina works.

Nikki: She just pulls this crap out of her b***.

Salina: And you know what that means, y'all?

Nikki: What does it mean, Salina?

Salina: It means we'll see you around the bend.

Salina: Bye.


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