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Designing Women S5 E11 - Mary Jo Goes On A Date

Mary Jo and her daughter Claudia are attracted to the same man. Do we feel sick? Yes. But do you have our attention? Dang it. Yes. 

Meanwhile, Julia’s bathroom woes at the big game leads to a sidebar on some wild bathroom history.. (Yes, yes, we’ll touch on the Georgia Tech reference because we’re in the South, and football is king…or a religion…or some other such thing or another.) 

Come back on Thursday for an “Extra Sugar” prompted by Delta Burke’s noticeable absences from a recent episode. That’s right, y’all, it’s time to talk about the behind-the-scenes drama we’ve hinted at for 2+ years!

Come on y’all, let’s get into it! 

Sources and more:



Salina: What if we just stop there?

Nikki: We both came to our mics at the same time.

Salina: Hi.

Salina: Hey, Nikki.

Nikki: Hey, Salina.

Salina: Hey, y'all.

Salina: Welcome to Sweet Tea and tv, where Salina messes up the introduction every time.

Salina: It doesn't matter.

Salina: We don't have to have the same introduction.

Salina: We just fall into know.

Nikki: I do know.

Nikki: Can I do some housekeeping before we start?

Salina: I love it when it's fresh.

Nikki: I'm taking Salina in a total.

Nikki: She was not expecting this at all.

Salina: Particularly since we've already been together 4 hours.

Nikki: I know.

Nikki: I put it off last episode because you had some things you wanted to talk about.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: I'm sorry.

Nikki: That's okay.

Nikki: So season five, episode seven.

Nikki: This year, the extra sugar was about baby models or child models.

Nikki: And we did a little bit of a game in that episode where you had to guess the celebrity did I win?

Salina: And now you're telling me I actually lost.

Nikki: Yes.

Salina: That sounds right.

Nikki: I'm paying you back.

Salina: All I can see is you going for something, and I'm kind of waiting for you to pull out a weapon.

Nikki: This is me.

Nikki: I have a prize for you.

Nikki: I have eBay's finest in a prize.

Nikki: A thing.

Salina: I owe you something.

Nikki: I owe you.

Nikki: So we talked about Anne Gettis in that episode, and the easy answer would have been an.

Salina: You know, oh, my.

Nikki: But when have I ever done the easy.

Salina: I mean, wait.

Salina: Hold on here.

Nikki: I'm getting a picture of her.

Nikki: So what are you holding in your hand, Salina?

Nikki: Why don't you tell everybody it's a.

Salina: Baby dressed up like a squirrel?

Nikki: It's an gettis doll.

Salina: I know that because it says baby squirrel.

Salina: Otherwise I would be like, what are you doing to me?

Nikki: Maybe our new sweet TNTv mascot.

Nikki: So we talked about Anne Gettis in that episode and how she would dress babies up.

Nikki: Like scientific.

Nikki: I was going to say scientific, like biological characters or something.

Nikki: So this is a doll that is a baby dressed up like a squirrel.

Nikki: It has a soft body, and then the baby is wearing a costume.

Nikki: I believe.

Nikki: Salina, I'm looking at the tag here.

Nikki: I believe this is in late ninety s.

Nikki: Nineteen eighty eight.

Nikki: Oh, wow.

Nikki: Vintage doll for you.

Nikki: So I could have just gotten you an anne get us calendar.

Nikki: Like, you could have put your workouts on that.

Nikki: But I figured we were already in December.

Nikki: You've already planned your calendar for next year?

Salina: Voodoo buddy and Bucky, meet your new best friend.

Salina: Oh, look at this weird thing we're doing right now.

Nikki: We need a picture of all the mascots.

Nikki: Your.

Salina: It's really a nice mattering of who we are, who we are individually and collectively.

Nikki: So that's your prize.

Nikki: Your victorious prize.

Nikki: You're welcome.

Salina: If Casey saw that, he would be like, do not bring that.

Nikki: You mean when Casey sees.

Salina: I'm just telling you, he would be like, that is a soul stealing doll.

Salina: She's sweet.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: So sweet.

Nikki: So sweet.

Salina: It's like a beanie baby.

Nikki: Dumb bottom.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Okay, you remember snowbabies?

Salina: Yes.

Salina: That's not a good example in there.

Salina: Something else that had a hard face but a soft body wasn't snowbabies, but something else.

Salina: Cabbage patch kids and the caterpillars.

Salina: The glow worms.

Nikki: Glow worms.

Nikki: Okay, well, that's what I was going for, was getting you a glow worm.

Salina: Well, that is just.

Nikki: But now it's a squirrel baby.

Salina: I love how scary and weird this you.

Nikki: I went on eBay and I was like, ann, get us.

Nikki: What do they have?

Nikki: And it took a few runs.

Nikki: It was worse than that.

Nikki: There were worse options.

Salina: We got to name it.

Nikki: We have to name they.

Nikki: Yeah, we'll have to think on that.

Nikki: So it's a squirrel listeners should name.

Salina: That's right.

Salina: Maybe even Patreons.

Salina: Yes.

Salina: We could do, like, our patreons could help us come up with the name, and then maybe we could drop that in together into the stories.

Salina: I'm going to make it super complicated.

Salina: Then we drop that into stories and we let people vote, and then Patreons get a veto.

Nikki: Oh, Lord.

Salina: Okay, well, in several patreons, choose the.

Nikki: Name in several weeks.

Nikki: When this airs, Salina, remember that, okay?

Nikki: Don't forget.

Nikki: All right?

Salina: No problem.

Nikki: So, speaking of your new baby, squirrely squirrely for now, curly squirrely.

Nikki: Curly squirrely.

Nikki: Do you want to talk about Mary Jo's baby?

Salina: No.

Nikki: So this is season five, episode eleven.

Nikki: My daughter, myself.

Nikki: The Hulu description is Mary Jo objects to Claudia, her 17 year old daughter, dating a 34 year old man, then decides to date him herself.

Nikki: Air date December 10, 1990 we're calling this one Mary Jo goes on a date.

Nikki: Did you have an alternative title you thought about?

Salina: Ew.

Nikki: So this one was written by Pam Norris and directed by David Trainor.

Nikki: And point of trivia, this is the last time we'll see Priscilla Williams play Claudia, Mary Jo's daughter.

Nikki: Salina was waving into the air.

Nikki: Nobody could see that.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: So general reactions.

Nikki: What do you.

Salina: You know, it was hard to watch this one and not think about what was obvious, which is sort of like this.

Salina: Moms and daughters, larger, maybe more global theme.

Salina: That's in this one.

Salina: The whole passing of the torch thing was kind of interesting.

Salina: I think the episode captures pretty well.

Salina: What's hard about being Mary Jo's age, even if in the weirdest and ickiest way possible, being Mary Jo's age.

Salina: I feel like I have some expertise in the area.

Salina: It has felt like this weird time and for a while now where you're not young anymore, but you're not old.

Salina: You're, like, in a weird limbo.

Salina: And I think that's what some of this was getting at.

Nikki: I feel so young every day.

Nikki: I wake up and feel young every.

Salina: Day when I wake up to my aches and my pains, it's just the.

Nikki: Bunion, my joint inflammation, my neck.

Nikki: So I think you saying that this is not something I wrote down, but as you're saying that I'm thinking something that's been sort of, like, marinating in my head a lot lately, is your message is getting lost in your mess.

Nikki: I heard someone say that a few months ago, and I think about that a lot.

Nikki: This episode, I might describe in that way, that message.

Nikki: It took us about two thirds of the episode through to get to that message.

Nikki: And it's almost lost in the ickiness of this relationship, this dynamic that we're facing.

Nikki: And this whole weird bit about the Georgia tech game, it gets a little bit lost.

Nikki: And I think, for me, I sort of lost the point for most of the episode.

Nikki: And then general.

Nikki: One of my general reactions was, I don't think the payoff of this episode was quite so well, especially when, you.

Salina: Know, this person isn't going to stick around.

Salina: They never.

Nikki: Right, right.

Nikki: So Mary Jo makes this questionable choice to go out with her daughter's date without vetting it with her daughter.

Nikki: Even if she tried, she didn't actually vet it with her.

Nikki: She goes out, her daughter gets mad at her, and then the resolution is that Mary Jo still goes out with him.

Nikki: Like, what is Christmas going to be like?

Nikki: What stories are they going to tell around the Christmas table if they end up together?

Salina: Don't tell that one.

Nikki: You'd have to bury that one.

Salina: Some stories you don't tell.

Salina: So, I don't know.

Salina: This is one that really would not be one I would easily bring up, I think, if I was in their position, which I think sort of leads me to this idea of thinking about the character of Jack.

Salina: Okay, so this is this 34 year old that sweeps into the episode.

Salina: And I have a question, really, are we supposed to be charmed by this guy?

Salina: Or, like, what do you think?

Nikki: Oh, that's such a good question.

Nikki: I thought it was a choice that his solution to this weird situation is to then ask Mary Jo out.

Nikki: So I think when you ask, are we supposed to be charmed by him?

Nikki: I think the answer is yes.

Nikki: I think the reality is no, not for me.

Nikki: It didn't do it for me.

Nikki: I thought he was cute enough.

Nikki: I thought he was nice enough.

Nikki: In a different set of circumstances, he and Mary Jo could have been something for sure.

Nikki: In this set of circumstances.

Nikki: We should have just let that one pretend like it never happened.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: So I think you're right.

Salina: Just if you think about what would this guy really have done if Claudia did look like she was even in the realm of 34?

Salina: But I think he said she looked more like she was 25, which we.

Nikki: Could talk about that too.

Salina: For me, there were some things that just really didn't work.

Salina: So he acted like he was blown away that Claudia was 17 and then he would never date her.

Salina: That's good, right?

Salina: But then he insinuated that he would still go out with her if Mary Jo would allow it.

Salina: That's bad.

Salina: And then at the very end, the very end of that first conversation, he said he now knew why Claudia was so cute.

Salina: I mean, it's impossible for me to believe that a woman wrote that line.

Salina: A woman did write that line, but it is impossible for me to believe because I don't know what woman would find that charming.

Salina: Yeah, not in that context.

Salina: Now, if I said that to you, and I was talking about Carolina, which I have told you before, like, oh my God, you and Carolina look just alike in this photo.

Salina: That is slightly different than someone hitting on you and talking about your kid looking like, know.

Nikki: Especially when two minutes ago he was poised to go on a date.

Salina: That's right.

Salina: Sexual equivalent.

Nikki: Yeah, I agree with that.

Nikki: I agree with was, I think what Mary Jo points out, it's one of my favorites later, is he was in a no win situation.

Nikki: No matter what he said in that circumstance, short of leaving, that was not going to work out for him.

Nikki: There was nothing he could say there.

Nikki: Once he learns she's young and he says she's cute, cute like a young girl, then it's uncomfortable because he was just ready to go out with her.

Nikki: Then you're thinking, well, what if Mary Jo and this guy did become something?

Nikki: He becomes her stepfather, and you knew he found her attractive at one point and is now just calling her cute to make it age appropriate.

Nikki: There were layers that made it inappropriate.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: And I thought that exchange was good where he was like, I mean, I don't want to be dating some 18 year old bimbo.

Nikki: Bimbo.

Nikki: All.

Nikki: My daughter's a bimbo.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: So I thought that was good.

Salina: And I thought that part felt at least a little bit more realistic.

Salina: But the rest of it, I'm just like, what are we doing here?

Salina: It's also strange to me, okay.

Salina: When we look at it from Claudia's angle, like, what 17 year old, once they find out someone's 34 is like, I thought 34 was dead, and I thought 25 was pretty old at Claudia's age.

Salina: And at first, she's mad at her mom.

Nikki: I don't think she'd processed how old.

Nikki: I don't think at that point, she had processed he was 34.

Salina: Like, only Mary Jo knew.

Salina: Right.

Salina: That makes me feel a lot better.

Salina: I think that just didn't make any.

Nikki: Sense, because later she says, yeah, he's old.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: I think later, when she finds out, she says, at the end of the episode, I did not realize he was that old.

Nikki: That's that whole conversation about the darkness of the bar, which is, like, another thing.

Nikki: We'll get there.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: Once she realized, I think she had the same reaction.

Nikki: I think you're right.

Nikki: I think a 17 year old finding out about a 34 year old, for the most part, Suzanne notwithstanding.

Nikki: Suzanne notwithstanding.

Salina: Who would be like, oh, 77 if you got money.

Nikki: Right?

Nikki: Exactly.

Salina: There are some stipulations, at least in there.

Nikki: Exactly.

Salina: Did you have any other generals?

Nikki: I have two more things.

Salina: One thing.

Nikki: I'll just.

Nikki: I've mentioned the structures of the episodes recently.

Nikki: I amended this note on Rewatch, because at first, I thought you had them all meet up at the beginning.

Nikki: Half the crew goes off to Georgia Tech, and half the crew, being Mary Jo, goes off and does this thing with her daughter never to meet again.

Nikki: And I was like, how od to just shove those two together?

Nikki: But actually, there is that scene about two thirds of the way through where they all come back together at Sugar bakers, and Mary Jo is lamenting this entire situation, and we never talk about the football game again, but it did sort of bring a completion back to the episode, so we had this sort of side jaunt or side adventure.

Nikki: I still stand behind the fact that I think this is an OD pairing of storylines, but it gave everybody a chance to go let Mary Jo do her thing, so I guess it's fair.

Salina: And do we think this is because Delta Burt?

Nikki: I wonder about that.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: And then the last general reaction is, I couldn't help myself because I went to UGA so Georgia Tech is sort of our rival.

Nikki: So I had to go see, Georgia Tech did have an undefeated season in the fall of 1990, when this episode would have aired, so there's probably a reason they were talking about Georgia Tech.

Nikki: It was timely.

Nikki: In fact, they beat Georgia that year, and they were the ACC champion and mildly related.

Nikki: Not a single one of the cast was wearing Georgia tech colors at the game, nor were any of the fans.

Nikki: Anthony was wearing sort of like a beige jacket, which is almost gold.

Nikki: So Georgia tech's colors are gold.

Nikki: Close, but not quite there.

Nikki: So I thought that was interesting.

Salina: That's a good.

Nikki: They didn't take it all the way across the finish line, which you could almost say that was stray.

Nikki: Did you have strays?

Salina: I do, actually.

Salina: You could just count this as a general, too, but, I mean, you could almost count this as a stray.

Salina: Excuse me.

Salina: But I did think it was, like, a little od, too, that Mary Jo felt so insecure about being, quote, overly protective of Claudia in the conversation with Jack, she's, like, asking him, do you think I'm just, am I being too overly protective?

Salina: Do you think I'm blah, blah, blah?

Salina: No.

Salina: He's 34.

Salina: Your daughter is 17.

Salina: Like, what is the insecurity here?

Salina: I just thought that was weird.

Nikki: I think she was navigating the 18.

Salina: Turn that was right around the corner.

Nikki: When trying to figure out what you do with that.

Salina: Appropriate.

Nikki: Right, exactly.

Nikki: I mean, that's the whole thing with the milestones.

Nikki: Exactly.

Nikki: Actually, one of my questions for you, Salina, is what is your thought around 18?

Nikki: Do you think 18 is a baby?

Nikki: Do you think 18 is a grown up, and do you think 24 makes that big of a difference?

Nikki: Not necessarily just talking about dating questions.

Nikki: Yes.

Nikki: Answer them.

Nikki: All right.

Nikki: Now.

Nikki: Rapid fire.

Salina: I think they're a good grouping of questions.

Salina: I'm 38, so now 18 feels very young.

Salina: When I was 18, I had probably already lived a few lives, and so I think it is a little bit about perspective for where you are in life.

Salina: I felt pretty darn grown by the time I was 24, as well.

Salina: Only on reflection of more time passing and more age are there ways where I realize, well, I wasn't that grown.

Salina: You know what I'm saying?

Nikki: That's my take.

Nikki: So, my mom recently, I said something about maybe a 19 year old.

Nikki: I don't remember the context, but I said something about a 19 year old, just like what a baby they were.

Nikki: And she's like, they're an Adult.

Salina: And I was like, by the letter.

Nikki: Of the law, yes.

Nikki: But you cannot tell me at your age that you look at an 18 year old and think they are fully formed and ready to make really difficult.

Salina: Life decisions, because they're not.

Salina: Because at 38 isn't.

Nikki: Sometimes I really struggle to make really difficult life decisions, and I have a lot of experience to go off of.

Nikki: I have a lot of knowledge, and I still struggle.

Nikki: So I think 18 is a baby.

Nikki: I was married by the time I was 24, so 24 is probably adultish.

Nikki: But looking back on it now, I was a baby.

Nikki: Kyle and I were babies who let us get married.

Nikki: Whose ideal was that?

Nikki: But that was something that.

Nikki: It just has been sitting with me a lot recently.

Nikki: And then watching this episode, I was like, she is a baby.

Salina: That was younger than the.

Salina: I don't know what it is now, but at some point around when I got married, I got married when I was 27.

Salina: 27 was the average age that a woman got married, or is what they used to call many years ago, would have been like an old hag.

Nikki: Well, I felt kind of old.

Nikki: Right?

Nikki: I felt old getting married.

Nikki: I was ready to get married, like, two years before we did because I thought that's what you did.

Nikki: I thought that was the next step.

Nikki: I didn't realize there's still time.

Nikki: I wouldn't change it.

Nikki: I'm glad I did what I did.

Nikki: But I think that when you think back on it, we were just so.

Nikki: Yet even 27, 27, 30 is sort of the game changer for me because I had Carolina when I was 30.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: But looking back now, I'm like, that's pretty young.

Nikki: It all is.

Nikki: So anyway, poor Claudia.

Nikki: She was a baby.

Salina: Yeah, Claudia is young.

Salina: That we can know for sure.

Nikki: Did you think it was weird that Charlene is the one that asked when Claudia's birthday was?

Nikki: Did you notice that?

Salina: Oh, probably not the best character to do supposed besties.

Nikki: She's asking that question.

Nikki: Yeah, she probably knows that.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: Mary Jo had a thing about sweater colors.

Nikki: Like, at the beginning, the weird names of sweater colors.

Nikki: And it made me think about opi nail colors, Cajun shrimp bubble bath and strawberry margarita.

Nikki: She would have lost her mind over those.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: The one color in the show was jumbalaya.

Salina: I was, like, sitting there trying.

Salina: I was like, brown, red, brown, red.

Nikki: Surely red.

Nikki: Yeah, surely.

Salina: Like a shrimp tail.

Nikki: Shrimp tail or pepper, maybe.

Nikki: Or is it brown?

Nikki: I don't know.

Salina: They didn't either.

Nikki: One more stray, and then I'll turn it over to you.

Nikki: Okay.

Nikki: There was a cut line that I pulled out where Mary Jo and Suzanne were having, like, kind of a surprising heart to heart moment at sugar bakers at the beginning, after everybody left for the game.

Salina: Oh, okay.

Nikki: It was before Claudia arrived, but after everybody else left for the game.

Nikki: And there was this cut conversation about dating older boys.

Nikki: Mary Jo expressed that she was worried, even with a two to three year difference.

Nikki: So I think that sets up this whole situation that happens later for it.

Salina: To be truly horrifying.

Nikki: Exactly.

Nikki: So I think that was an important cut.

Salina: I dated someone who was 19 when I was 16, and I remember people around me freaking out, including friends, older brothers and stuff like that.

Salina: And I think it is because it is a sea of difference when you are that young.

Salina: So I don't know, especially if they're.

Nikki: Off at college or, like, out in.

Salina: The world somehow off at college near a towny.

Salina: Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Salina: So my stray observation is I really felt the whole bathroom b plot in my bones, weird as it was.

Salina: And so it turns out this one is likely grounded in headlines from that time.

Salina: Can we potty Sidebar.

Nikki: It'S a sidebar Salina Sidebar she's got a keyboard looking for a reward by digging deep in the obscure, taking us on a detour.

Nikki: What you got Salina in Salina's sidebar the full dance.

Salina: I was just letting it come to an end.

Salina: Also, sorry for the potty sidebar that probably sounded weird, but here we are.

Salina: So Julia's bathroom conundrum might have been a hat tip to something in real life, the first of which happened in the same year, so 1990, and was known as potty gate.

Salina: I'll just go ahead and ask.

Salina: Did you look into any of this?

Nikki: No.

Salina: This is just my weirdness.

Nikki: This is just your weirdness.

Salina: So on July 7, 1990, Denise Wells attended a George Strait concert in Houston, Texas, where she was fined $200 in ejective for using the men's restroom.

Salina: She only used it out of pure desperation after facing down a ridiculously long line for the women's restroom and trying to make it back to her seat before the end of the opening act.

Salina: So sidebar in my sidebar this means that woman got kicked out of the concert that I think she paid 120 19 $90 for before she even got to see Mr.

Salina: George street.

Nikki: That's terrible.

Salina: Was recently in Atlanta, and those tickets.

Nikki: Were expensive, really expensive.

Salina: So she decided to fight the ticket in court, and the case wound up capturing national attention, and, I'm guessing also the attention of Pam Norris.

Salina: Wells was eventually acquitted on November 3.

Salina: This is coming out on December 10.

Salina: So there's not a lot.

Salina: Those are pretty close.

Salina: With the way it airs.

Salina: You could see some of this having possibly crept into the headlines.

Salina: You get where I'm going here.

Salina: Probably also worth mentioning Sandra Rawls, who in 1988 conducted a groundbreaking study of public restroom habits in airport shopping malls and arenas in Virginia, which I think Julia is kind of alluding to when Anthony is talking about them primping in the bathroom or whatever, and she's like, actually, they're not set up for our vaginas or whatever, she says.

Salina: So according to an ESPN article.

Nikki: Just processed what you just said.

Salina: According to an ES, that's exactly what she said.

Salina: I mean, basically she said our anatomy.

Salina: Which anatomy do you think she's talking about?

Salina: Elbows.

Salina: She found that women needed significantly more time in the restroom due to serious issues such as clothing restrictions, security bags, pregnancy, menstruation, and the increased frequency compared to men of having to accompany small children.

Nikki: Can we get on a soapbox for a second?

Salina: Yes, please.

Nikki: I have two thoughts about this one.

Nikki: One of my biggest time go on in life.

Nikki: I would recommend an IUD to you.

Salina: DUI purses.

Nikki: Why are there not universally hooks in bathrooms for purses?

Nikki: Because I do spend an inordinate amount of time trying to figure out where to prop my purse or what to do with my purse so I don't inadvertently get it wet.

Nikki: That is the same for a jacket.

Nikki: If I'm in a jacket situation, I spend a lot of time playing with it and trying to make sure it's safe thing, too.

Nikki: The small children thing.

Nikki: Yes.

Nikki: I often have to use the accessible stall because it is the only one that adequately accommodates you with small children and you don't feel like you're either on top of each other or touching things you don't want to touch.

Nikki: And I very often feel bad about it because what if someone comes in that has a physical need and they need.

Nikki: I would argue I also have a physical need because I have two small kids to keep in there.

Salina: I don't think one person would think twice about it.

Nikki: I hope not.

Salina: It's a weird space in the head.

Nikki: But I'm glad you're bringing this up because I have a soapbox about women's bathrooms.

Nikki: I don't even think today they're appropriate.

Nikki: Carry on.

Salina: And I think that's part of the argument as well, even though some things have changed.

Salina: But this is in pretty direct opposition to this idea that we're in there doing our hair and our makeup and changing our outfits and all of this.

Salina: When you were mentioning the different things that you're trying to hold while using the bathroom.

Salina: I was like, or you're wearing overalls and where are those supposed to.

Nikki: I was thinking about that, too.

Nikki: Yeah, that becomes a whole thing as well.

Salina: And, you know, it's just the rules.

Salina: It touches the bathroom ground.

Salina: I have to burn.

Nikki: You have to burn it.

Nikki: You don't make the rules, you just enforce them.

Salina: Just follow them.

Salina: So anyways, this groundbreaking research exposed this idea that gender discrimination couldn't even be kept out of the gosh darn restroom.

Salina: And it would lead to changes in building codes, first in Virginia and then in other states that required doubling the number of restrooms for women in places like museums, libraries, and actually, we'll link to the article.

Salina: It's a really interesting article that has to do with our stadium here at Mercedes Benz because the guy who was part of the development, I mean, he's helped develop everything.

Salina: But ESPN had come to specifically talk about the bathrooms, which were all done to a really high standard and particularly for women and to help make sure that women didn't miss the game because of a crappy restroom situation.

Salina: And he was like so excited to be able to talk about all these things that they did.

Salina: I thought it was really nice.

Salina: It was really interesting.

Salina: It's just one of those things where you don't think about it until you're thinking about it.

Salina: But all this forethought that gets put into an experience like that is really a fascinating science.

Nikki: I can't remember if they practically changed it so that the men's restrooms at Mercedes Benz during the eras tour for Taylor Swift were women's restrooms, or if they informally allowed that.

Nikki: But overwhelmingly they let women use the men's restrooms.

Salina: That's right.

Salina: That flexibility was built in.

Salina: And so the eras tour benefited from that.

Salina: But that was something that was in the.

Nikki: It was already in the development.

Salina: Okay, that's cool.

Salina: And I think that's because they knew that they could.

Salina: I mean, it's nice.

Salina: And also, obviously there are going to be true.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: There's obviously going to be things where it's just logistically needed because there's going to be a higher female ratio based audience.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: So these laws and policies granting women equal right to equitable access to restrooms in public places and workplaces are known as potty parity.

Salina: There really is.

Nikki: I thought you made that up.

Salina: I did not.

Nikki: I was really impressed with your cleverness.

Nikki: I always am.

Nikki: But I was that time, not me.

Salina: Wish it had been so these laws and policies granting women equal right.

Salina: Me.

Salina: Prior to the passage of these potty parity laws, many government buildings and workplaces didn't have restrooms for women at all.

Nikki: What?

Salina: Yes.

Salina: So I wrote down.

Salina: Now, this is from Wikipedia, but let's give Wikipedia a little credit.

Salina: Now, there's a couple of notable mind numbing dates.

Salina: The first restroom for congresswomen in the US Capitol was opened in 1962.

Salina: Wow.

Salina: Facilities for female us senators on the Senate chamber level were first provided in 1992.

Nikki: Oh gosh.

Salina: In 2011.

Salina: I think I remember this one.

Salina: The US House of Representatives got its first women's bathroom near the chamber in what year?

Salina: 2011.

Nikki: Oh my gosh.

Nikki: The people that could make the laws to change it couldn't even get access to a bathroom.

Salina: So I didn't put this one in here.

Salina: But what actually led me around to all of this, when I just first did some cursory searching was something that happened in this time period too.

Salina: It was in, like, I want to say, 89.

Salina: It was in California.

Salina: And what led to the laws being changed, there was someone who was in some political position, and I don't want to say specifically which one because I'm going to get it wrong, but he and his wife and kid were going to a concert at one of the really famous concert places out the Hollywood bowl.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: And I feel like I'm getting some part of that name wrong, but it's very famous out there anyways.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: I'm on the east coast.

Salina: But she wound up waiting in the restroom line for so long that I guess she missed like a significant part of the symphony or something.

Salina: And so seeing that he went and started pushing things through because he probably got an ear full that night.

Nikki: You know what sucks is that was so long ago.

Nikki: They've changed all these things.

Nikki: I still have beef with how long it takes me to use the bathroom most of the time when we're out at places.

Salina: And I just say it's the same thing that it is with this show.

Salina: Progress made.

Salina: Miles to go before we sleep, even in the bathroom.

Salina: You know what I'm saying?

Salina: Obviously we have many other restroom problems that have been at the.

Salina: I just peed on myself, but other restroom problems that have been at play.

Salina: It seems to me the ESPN article I read also had the best simple solution.

Salina: More gender neutral, single use toilet rooms.

Salina: And let me tell you why I love this idea.

Salina: Besides the obvious fact that it's more inclusive, it would require stall partitions that go all the way to the floor and us just starting to think a little bit more like Europeans when it comes to the bathroom peeing.

Nikki: Anyway.

Salina: We'Re talking about actual privacy versus perceived privacy.

Salina: We currently have in public restaurant tiny.

Nikki: Hiders, which is the brand name of the bathroom stalls.

Salina: Oh, my gosh.

Salina: I mean, not that I don't love making eye contact with someone through the mile wide cracks in the stalls.

Salina: You're just dead looking at someone and sitting down with your pants around your ankles.

Salina: Cool feeling, but I could skip it, couldn't you?

Salina: So, Nikki, I know you like it when you have access to public restrooms, but what did you like about this episode?

Nikki: You're going to hate me because the only like I have I've already mentioned, which was that back and forth between Mary Jo and Claudia's date, Jack.

Nikki: So I'm your second choice?

Nikki: No, my first.

Nikki: Oh, so Claudia is not good enough for you?

Nikki: She happens to be a beautiful girl.

Nikki: Oh, yeah, she is beautiful.

Nikki: Pervert.

Nikki: Nothing that man was going to say in that circumstance was going to be good.

Nikki: No, it wasn't going to work out for him.

Salina: No, it sure wasn't.

Nikki: What did you like?

Salina: So I had two lines that really stood out for me that I really like.

Salina: So one is Suzanne.

Salina: About Julia.

Salina: Of course.

Salina: Julia thinks there's thousands of men out there.

Salina: She's been hanging around in men's bathrooms.

Salina: So that was pretty good.

Salina: And then it's really long, so I'm not sure I want to read it.

Salina: Sorry.

Salina: But Charlene goes on a tear about celebrity endorsements by people who aren't even recognizable by the public.

Salina: And it is so like the physical.

Nikki: Humor at the very end is very funny.

Nikki: When she finally realizes she spiraled, like the way you can see her face change, she catches herself and sucks it back in.

Nikki: And then Julia says, carry on, mary Jo.

Salina: It's just a really nice runner that they put together.

Nikki: For Charlene, it's funny.

Salina: So what did you not like about this one?

Nikki: We talked about my, at the very top of the episode, I talked a little bit about structural concerns, how it sort of felt like the episode was a little aimless in a way, and a little like, message gets lost on the messiness.

Nikki: So I would think in general, that's my dislike.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: I think that some of the conversations felt rambly to me or even forced.

Salina: Not very natural or not as natural as I would have liked.

Salina: Maybe it was because it was between characters who don't have the same chemistry as the main cast.

Salina: I'm thinking specifically about Jack and Mary Jo.

Salina: After they meet for the first time.

Salina: And then Mary Jo and Claudia, at the end of the episode, her and Claudia are kind of saying the right things and it's sweet, but it just wasn't landing for me.

Salina: So now that we've talked about all the things that don't make this work for us, you ready to rate it?

Nikki: Sure.

Nikki: My rating scale was religious football experiences.

Nikki: I'm giving it a 2.75 out of five.

Nikki: So we know the episode didn't do it for me.

Nikki: It was sort of an awkward plot.

Nikki: It wasn't super well executed, in my opinion.

Nikki: So not one of my faves.

Salina: Yeah, well, yeah, I think you're going to be surprised.

Salina: I did give it a 3.5 out of five.

Nikki: Only because you got to sidebar on potties.

Salina: It was really interesting.

Salina: It changed my life.

Salina: Funny how they're these little big things going to really change your life anyways.

Salina: So that would be out of badly lit teen nightclubs.

Salina: I have to say that.

Salina: And I gave it that high of a score because even though it didn't necessarily work for me, and I don't think it's the best we've seen this season, it was so weird that I needed to see it through to the end.

Salina: I'm like, are they both going to date them?

Nikki: I don't know how this ends.

Salina: How is thanksgiving to your point?

Salina: And I think our moms are close in that difference of age as Mary Jo and Claudia.

Salina: Well, your mom was married, mine wasn't.

Salina: But I'm telling you right now that that experience did not happen for me.

Salina: So I just needed to know, how does this work?

Nikki: How's that going to play out?

Nikki: I have to ask you though, and this is a little bit of a sidebar to your rating.

Nikki: You just said teen nightclubs.

Nikki: One of my strays that I cut because I just didn't want to belabor the point.

Nikki: But she's 17.

Nikki: She's meeting this guy at a club.

Nikki: What's the deal with club ages?

Nikki: I didn't even think about a teen club.

Nikki: And then does that mean a 34 year old was in a teen club?

Salina: I said teen club.

Salina: I think it's one of the clubs that.

Salina: And I actually have this in.

Salina: This is perfect.

Salina: Let's go ahead and you know what?

Nikki: That's why I did this.

Nikki: This is perfect.

Salina: You just knew.

Salina: It's like you got a little sneaky peek at my notes.

Salina: So I have under 90s references and this will answer your question.

Salina: I think the idea of 18 plus clubs just feels like a dated reference for me.

Salina: So these had really died out in Georgia by the early aughts, largely.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: I'm not saying they didn't exist at all.

Salina: The last ones I knew of were flip flops.

Salina: And then there's like wild bills.

Salina: Sorry if you're not from here, that doesn't mean anything to you.

Salina: But we're talking about, I think wild bills was around until maybe four or five years ago.

Nikki: Very recently.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: I'm confused though.

Nikki: Hold on, so you're saying you didn't have to be 18 to get into most clubs?

Nikki: This was the root of my question.

Nikki: I don't know how old you had to be to get in clubs because I didn't worry about it really till I was 20.

Salina: So you can get into an 18 plus club like a flip flops or a wild bills or the library was one now all the.

Salina: But also it wasn't that hard to get in before you were 18.

Nikki: Well, so I went to Uga.

Nikki: So that was the other thing.

Nikki: Age doesn't really matter for most places.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: When I used my fake id in Uga at Uga bars, they turned me away.

Nikki: Although they didn't arrest you.

Salina: Although 1 bar might have been really nice and let me on through one time they said, you just look so scared.

Salina: I feel bad for you.

Nikki: Get in there.

Nikki: Oh my gosh.

Nikki: Firehouse.

Salina: No, this actually wasn't, this was somewhere in Atlanta.

Salina: They were like, oh, honey, just go in.

Salina: One of my friends, she don't care.

Salina: It's Ashley.

Salina: She got us kicked out of the library for looking so young.

Nikki: Oh, gosh.

Salina: They saw her drinking out of one of the pictures of Blue mfers that they used to make and they saw her immediately and they were like, you're not 21, get out.

Salina: I have some experience in those clubs.

Salina: What I'm saying is they're weird, but what would be weirder is a 34 year old in them.

Salina: But I don't even think the show could make up its mind about what this was because they were there to have dinner.

Salina: But it was a club.

Salina: Is it a dinner club?

Salina: I know there are restaurants that turn into more of a club atmosphere afterwards, but those usually really are 21 and up again.

Salina: 1990s, a little harder to speak to.

Salina: Did that help?

Nikki: So the show didn't really know where they met?

Salina: Yeah, which helps.

Salina: I think the only thing that you found out there was more of my wilder times under the age of 21.

Nikki: Find that out.

Nikki: I knew it had a few fake ids.

Nikki: I never had a fake id.

Nikki: I had a friend's id?

Nikki: Yeah, we looked alike.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: That helps.

Salina: There weren't a lot of.

Nikki: What are you going to do, arrest me now?

Salina: Yeah, but did anybody ever really look like that person?

Nikki: No, I don't look like me on.

Salina: My license, so there's that on any other picture.

Salina: I like to think that's not what I look like, but my license is actually the only good picture I've ever taken.

Salina: I will hold on to that until I die.

Salina: They'll have to pry it out of my hand.

Nikki: That's what I'm saying.

Salina: Out of my dead hand.

Salina: Do you hear that, Georgia?

Salina: Do you hear it?

Salina: Did you have any other 90s things?

Nikki: Where are we?

Salina: I don't even know what you're talking about.

Nikki: I had Gumby and pokey.

Nikki: Less for ninety s, more for dated.

Nikki: But it's a stop motion cartoon that started in the liked Gumby again.

Nikki: In Athens, there was a pizza restaurant called Gumby's and they had pokey sticks.

Salina: I just heard this being talked about on armchair expert.

Nikki: No.

Nikki: Oh, because of Monica.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: I was going to say what's her face?

Nikki: That's rude.

Nikki: Monica.

Nikki: Yeah, maybe.

Nikki: Gumby's used to be right across from the freshman dorms and it had pokey sticks.

Salina: She had a whole backstory on why it was that either her or Dax knew.

Nikki: I meant to look it up, actually.

Nikki: Yeah, because it got me down memory lane.

Nikki: Not for the purposes of this, but.

Salina: Just to know, like, maybe the guy who voiced him or the guy who created it stopped in that place and then they decided to build the whole thing around him, which sounds so like a small town would do.

Salina: And I realize Athens isn't as small of a town anymore by any stretch, but it was a little small.

Nikki: It still feels small town and tight knit, right?

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: It's a small town.

Nikki: Yes.

Nikki: You're fair in calling it a small town.

Nikki: So the easy thing to do would be to listen to armchair expert.

Salina: I would love to tell you which episode that was, but I can't remember.

Nikki: I'm going to wait for someone, one of my friends, to show that they listen to our podcast and tell me why it was named Gumbies.

Nikki: Pokeys.

Nikki: Pokey sticks.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Or I could just google it for you.

Nikki: I could be done now.

Nikki: That's the last 90s thing.

Salina: Southern things.

Nikki: Gumbo.

Nikki: But you said jumbalaya.

Salina: I thought you were going to say gumby again.

Salina: I'm like, is it a southern reference or is it a 90s reference?

Nikki: Completely forgot we had that conversation.

Nikki: I think it was Gumbo was the sweater color at the beginning.

Nikki: Which is why I thought, okay, I don't know.

Nikki: Anyway, that's Southern.

Salina: I have to tell you, what you just did there was amazing.

Salina: I finally get what you're trying to say.

Salina: I think Gumbo.

Nikki: Southern.

Salina: Got it.

Salina: Not Gumby.

Salina: Do we ever mention that we have full time jobs and that we do this in our spare time?

Salina: And it's actually a lot.

Salina: So if you all could sometimes give us a pass for the fact that we're tired and old, it's so.

Salina: Appreciate it.

Nikki: Also sounds like we've had a couple of drinks and a few desserts and we've had neither of those things.

Nikki: We had soup and salad for lunch.

Nikki: I don't know what's happening.

Salina: She didn't even give me Christmas cookies.

Salina: I offer her bourbon every time she comes over here and she never takes it.

Nikki: Lord of Mercy, what southern things do you have?

Salina: Well, the obvious is like Georgia Tech, and then she goes through this whole.

Salina: In the east, football is a cultural exercise.

Salina: In the midwest, it's cannibalism, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Salina: It's a religion.

Nikki: In the south, that's where I got my rating scale from religious football experiences.

Nikki: There you go.

Salina: I feel so religious every time I get to see a football game.

Salina: And then Decatur got a mention.

Salina: Apparently this is where Ted lives.

Nikki: It was a super random.

Nikki: I had to listen to it twice because I was.

Nikki: Oh, that's.

Nikki: That's a deep cut for Pam Norris.

Salina: I think that's true.

Salina: References we need to talk about.

Salina: How about references we will or won't talk about?

Salina: We're going to have to rename.

Nikki: There's no need.

Nikki: Honorary lander sister is what Mary Jo called Claudia because she looked, I wrote, was a jab at how polished Claudia looked.

Nikki: I'm not sure polished is the right word here, but how mature she looked.

Nikki: Anyway.

Nikki: Judy and Audrey Landers are sisters.

Nikki: Yep.

Nikki: Audrey was known.

Nikki: I was going to say.

Salina: Do you want me to tell you that we've done this reference before?

Nikki: Yeah.

Salina: Or do you want to go all the way through?

Nikki: I'll go through it because then we'll just finish the drill.

Nikki: Audrey was known for Dallas.

Nikki: Judy was known for playing ditzy characters.

Nikki: They appeared in a non nude playboy pictorial in the mid 80s.

Nikki: So the reference to Claudia qualifying as an honorary lander sister was a jab at how polished Claudia looked.

Salina: I think that still really counts as a reference to talk about now because we did talk a little bit about their dress.

Salina: But I have to tell you, too, that I remember the term the Lander sisters and that's about it.

Salina: And that we talked about it.

Nikki: You know, I started writing it down, but I'm also a little bit confused by Landers, so.

Salina: By her as a person?

Nikki: Yeah, because she's the lady that you write things to in the newspaper, like a dear Abby sort of person.

Nikki: So when I saw the Landers sisters, I was prepping for the dear Abby sort of person.

Nikki: And now that you're saying this, I remember this is not the first time.

Salina: I've been through this and had that confusion before.

Nikki: So I have no references we need to talk about.

Nikki: We'll just cut that one right out.

Salina: I really hope you leave it right on in.

Salina: Mildred Pierce with Joan Crawford and Anne Blythe in 1945 gets a plug.

Salina: I was going to say, I'm not even going to go down that, except for to say that I've never seen the original Mildred Pierce, but I saw the miniseries that was done on HBO, and it's really good.

Nikki: Is this a good time to tell you we've talked about this one before?

Salina: Probably.

Nikki: Just kidding.

Salina: Actually.

Salina: I wouldn't be surprised.

Nikki: Just kidding.

Salina: They really like to recycle a reference.

Nikki: They do.

Nikki: And I just do it in full circleness.

Nikki: If they're going to do it, I'm going to do it.

Salina: I think that's good.

Salina: What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Salina: Is that how you use that?

Nikki: Flocks and ganders, flips and flops?

Salina: All right, well, that's all my references.

Nikki: Next episode can't come fast enough.

Nikki: Next episode, season five, episode twelve.

Nikki: And now here's Bernice.

Nikki: We'd love everyone to follow along with us and engage Instagram and Facebook at Sweet Tea and tv.

Nikki: TikTok at Sweet tea tvpod.

Nikki: Our YouTube is at SweetTV 7371 and our email address is

Nikki: And you can find us online.

Nikki: I don't know why I ever try to freshen this one up.

Nikki: Our website is

Nikki: There are several ways you can support the show.

Nikki: First of all, if you are sticking with us this long, maybe you could just leave us a five star rating.

Nikki: Or you listen, don't use this episode as your example for why.

Nikki: But you love us.

Nikki: You know you do.

Nikki: Just go ahead and do it.

Nikki: You can also tell your family and friends about us, even if it's to tell them how unhinged we get.

Nikki: Sometimes that's worth it.

Salina: I love unhinged.

Nikki: I love unhinged.

Nikki: There's something to be said for it.

Nikki: And then on our website.

Nikki: We have several ways you can support the show on the support us page.

Nikki: So now it's time to talk about this week's extra sugar.

Salina: That's right.

Salina: That's my cue.

Salina: So we're going to chat about some behind the scenes tv drama prompted by what was happening in real life this season with Delta Burke and showrunners LBT and Harry Thomason.

Nikki: Sounds dramatic.

Salina: It is dramatic.

Salina: And you know what that means.

Nikki: What does it mean, Salina?

Salina: Nikki?

Salina: It means I need a nap.

Salina: And that we'll see you around the bend.

Salina: Bye.


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