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Designing Women S5 E8 - Julia and Mary Jo Take Up Jogging

Updated: Nov 30, 2023

Stuck in a rut? Run from it. That’s Mary Jo’s plan – she drags Julia along. We guess that means we’re coming, too, but don’t expect us to jog while we do it.

A running-themed episode inspired a sidebar where we’ll dig into Atlanta races and legendary runners. It has a history all its own, y’all! Like Julia, we also can’t get enough exercise, so come back Thursday for an “Extra Sugar” about workout trends throughout the years.

Here’s some links from Nikki’s sidebar, if you want to dig in more on running in Atlanta and the Southeast:

Come on y’all, let’s get into it!



Salina: Hey, Nikki.

Nikki: Hey, Salina.

Salina: And hello everyone.

Salina: And welcome to Sweet Tea and TV.

Salina: Hey, y'all.

Salina: We are here at season five five, episode eight.

Salina: I almost went to my episode nine notes, but it's okay, I've got them.

Nikki: That would have been very confusing for me.

Salina: I'm ready.

Salina: I would have broken us both.

Salina: I figured it out.

Nikki: Would you say we would have ended up with nowhere to run to?

Salina: Oh, go from there.

Nikki: So that is the name of episode eight.

Nikki: Grammatically correct or not, that is the name.

Nikki: Mary Jo persuades a reluctant Julia to take up jogging with her.

Nikki: But it's Julia who leaves an exhausted Mary Jo in the Dust air date november twelveTH, 1990 we're calling this one Julia and Mary Jo take up jogging.

Nikki: It was written by Cassandra Clark and Deborah Pearl and directed by David Trainer.

Nikki: So let's get into general reactions.

Nikki: I will give you a heads up that this was a super stray episode for me, so I do not have much in the way of general reactions.

Nikki: My one general reaction nope, I have two.

Nikki: Does Julia even like her?

Salina: Oh, yeah.

Nikki: Like, this isn't the first time she's lamenting really?

Nikki: Openly.

Nikki: I mean, yeah, whatever.

Nikki: Do you have an answer?

Nikki: She doesn't.

Nikki: She, like, laments how stupid they are all the time.

Nikki: Like, this is the dumbest conversation I've ever heard.

Nikki: I didn't think it could get lower than the lowness that you all bring every day.

Nikki: And now it has.

Salina: Yeah, I think she struggles a little bit with it, maybe with just people in general.

Salina: She's grumpy.

Nikki: She's a grump.

Nikki: And you love that.

Salina: I love a grump.

Salina: Not when you're condescending, though.

Salina: I don't love condescension.

Nikki: Condescension doesn't ever feel good or look good.

Salina: No.

Nikki: The other general reaction I had is that Dixie Carter was 51 years old in this episode.

Nikki: But no, she couldn't have been because did you see how flexible all that flexibility she had?

Nikki: Like the stretches she was doing, the pep in her step when she was pretending to run.

Salina: It's funny that you say that because I was thinking today she is a beautiful woman.

Salina: And what I wouldn't do to see today's hair on her instead of the feathered look, because we get to see that from other people more like kind of stayed consistently working and are still with us.

Salina: Like Jean smart.

Salina: We've gotten to see her go through several hairstyles.

Salina: Annie potts is out there.

Salina: She's doing the things you get to see her.

Salina: I would also argue that the hairstyle that she rocks most of the time, there's only so much you could do with naturally curly hair.

Salina: You all so it kind of looks similar across the decades unless you really start futzing with it.

Salina: But yeah, we just don't really get that from her.

Salina: And she looks good.

Salina: She looked good in that jogging suit.

Nikki: She did.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: So my first general reaction is just that I thought this was a really good episode to follow the old Rebels and Young Models episode that we just covered last week because it almost ceded the discontent we feel from the top of this episode.

Salina: Like you were talking about Julia.

Salina: She's saying the conversation has reached an all new low, but basically things are getting know.

Salina: Gotta shake this thing up.

Salina: Mary Jo comes in.

Salina: She's talking about how she's in a rut, she's restless, she's overworked, she feels underappreciated.

Salina: She's a two legged service module, like C three PO with breasts.

Salina: Great line.

Salina: Not mine, hers.

Salina: It does kind of sound like something I would say, like a little dorky and has to do with chests.

Salina: So did this resonate with you at.

Nikki: All, Nikki, the idea of being in a rut and jogging to mix it up?

Salina: I don't know about jogging to mix it up, maybe, but just the rut, overworked, underappreciated.

Salina: You don't have to tell me if you feel like C three PO with breast.

Nikki: Yeah, I mean, we talked about this in the last episode.

Nikki: I don't think this is also I'm glad you said that because I was for various inco for various incendiary reasons.

Nikki: I was trying to remember when Mary Jo had last talked about ruts because this is not a new thing with her.

Nikki: This has come up before.

Nikki: So yeah, I mean, we've talked about it at length.

Nikki: It's hard not to feel like you're in a little bit of a rut that you're in the everyday sort of becomes like the day before.

Nikki: It with a fresh new h*** somehow.

Salina: That whole thing that she said, except for the fact I understand I don't have children, I just felt it in my bones.

Salina: And it's because it's like life becomes a series of and I said this in the last episode, something similar, but like a series of bills.

Salina: But you've got some chores in between.

Salina: If you need to break things up.

Nikki: You have hard pay somebody else for lots of things, but then also do work of your own that you're not getting paid for and then also do work for someone else that you're getting paid for but still feels annoying somehow.

Nikki: And it just one day after the other.

Nikki: And then you have kids.

Nikki: Throw in making some lunches in there.

Nikki: Throw in forgetting Spanish Club materials because you don't have your invite anyway.

Nikki: Your daughter's Spanish club material now I've got Landon.

Nikki: But yeah, it does after a while, sort of.

Nikki: And that's why I said in the last episode, like, you've got to sit in the good a lot and have something to look forward to because otherwise there's no light at the end of that tunnel.

Nikki: It's just going to be the same thing.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Do you think somebody's going to sign us up for better help?

Nikki: It doesn't need therapy.

Salina: Everyone needs therapy.

Nikki: Love life.

Nikki: Do love it.

Nikki: I love the stuff in between.

Nikki: Monday through Friday.

Nikki: It's the Monday through Friday.

Nikki: That really takes me down.

Nikki: It's just the better half of the week.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Maybe we should just send this to work.

Salina: Anyways, interesting how you think this is going to be a Mary Jo episode, but it pretty much turns into a like her actions are driving the plot.

Salina: Even when she's not on the screen, they're all talking about her.

Salina: So it feels like deeply a Julia episode.

Salina: And this is something that I just have to say.

Salina: It happens to Annie Potts and it happens to me.

Salina: Shaq Taylor.

Nikki: Oh, interesting.

Salina: I don't know you do, like if any if you want to come on and talk about it, we're here.

Salina: Yeah, I thought this episode I'm barreling for because you told me you've got your general reactions out of that.

Nikki: I've got like eight strays, so I am here to listen on your general.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: So this is just the very last thing is that I thought this episode captured really well a couple of relatable concepts.

Salina: The imaginary you versus the real.

Salina: So, like, the imaginary me can definitely buy some running shoes and pick up jogging, no problem.

Salina: Of course, the real me probably needs to be rescued by Anthony, like Mary Jo after I throw up in a parking lot.

Salina: So I just thought that was relatable.

Nikki: I think it's relatable, but actually not to you.

Nikki: You were the person that trained for that hot chocolate ten K and just killed it.

Salina: Well, that was very nice of you to say.

Nikki: I was in the depths of my triathlon training at that point and still cannot run.

Nikki: It kills me.

Salina: Also, running with a friend.

Nikki: It kills.

Salina: Who didn't run a lot.

Nikki: I don't know.

Salina: I think it was me.

Nikki: I think I was the friend who didn't run a lot.

Nikki: I'm a very slow runner.

Nikki: My mom used to take us not to take your point.

Nikki: Turn it to me.

Nikki: My mom used to take us up to the elementary school when I was in like fourth grade and make us run a mile because I could not run a mile in the time that they required you to run a mile in.

Nikki: I've been working out now at this point since I was 24 years old.

Nikki: Long time, longtime, consistent workouter.

Nikki: I still cannot run faster than a twelve minute mile.

Nikki: Most of the time, 1 mile at a time, I probably could.

Nikki: 1 mile I could do in.

Nikki: Eight minutes I can do fine.

Nikki: But when I was a kid, I couldn't, I could not run in like the eleven or twelve minutes they gave us.

Salina: The whole thing is and we'll get into it over the course of this one, I think.

Salina: But just like the concept of running is kind of a funny one, right?

Salina: It's like we're so bored in life that we have to come up with something to do, but that could take us down.

Nikki: And I have this I'm going to take us on a little bit of a sidebar on a jog, on a jogging sidebar.

Nikki: Some people love it's a lifestyle.

Nikki: For some people, it is a lifestyle.

Salina: Oh, there's so much energy in this one.

Salina: But the other relatable concept, I thought was, like, this idea of a friend who's annoyingly good at everything.

Salina: That's.

Salina: What?

Salina: Mary Jo's experience.

Salina: Let me tell you something.

Salina: If you're listening to this and you don't know who that friend is, congratulations.

Salina: You are that friend.

Salina: Way to go.

Salina: Like, you and bite me.

Salina: But also, congratulations.

Nikki: Good for you.

Salina: Yeah, so good.

Salina: All right, take us to your stray observation journey.

Nikki: Just so many.

Nikki: So there was a cut line after Suzanne gets really incensed early in the episode about potentially losing her spot on the couch.

Nikki: This is sort of a throwback to the last episode.

Nikki: She said something like, you want my place on the sofa?

Nikki: And then goes on to say, I've told you all before, this is my place and always be my place.

Nikki: It's not going to work.

Nikki: Like moving her from that spot.

Nikki: Reading the script online, it almost sounds like they go on to play musical chairs a little bit.

Nikki: Like there's some moving around.

Nikki: Someone says they don't all have to sit this is like in the context of Mary Jo's rut discussion.

Nikki: Someone says they don't all have to sit in the same places.

Nikki: Mary Jo says, this is kind of neat.

Nikki: I was wondering if listener Adam could tell us what really happens in this scene.

Nikki: Was it musical chairs?

Nikki: Were we moving around?

Nikki: If you come back at the end of the episode, when you come back at the end of the episode, suzanne, in fact, moves to another spot on the couch.

Nikki: So it's not like the first thing to follow with the cuts.

Nikki: But I feel like that would have resonated more or been a little bit more clear about why she actually just goes and sits in a different spot.

Nikki: Because there was this whole discussion early in the episode about how we can just move from time to time.

Nikki: We don't all have to sit in the same place.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Although because of the way that we watch these, though, I will say that was a little bit of a threading from the last episode.

Salina: Right.

Salina: She didn't want to get out of her seat.

Salina: But that's a long leap when there's seven days in between.

Salina: In an initial run, you wouldn't have had the cut part.

Salina: So yeah, Adam, tell us.

Nikki: Tell us.

Salina: I feel robbed a little bit because I feel like that would have been I feel like most of them are really good physical comedy actors.

Salina: And yeah, what a stupid guy.

Nikki: There was also another thing that was cut that was a reference to Lean Cuisines.

Nikki: The only reason I bring that up is it just sounds like Mary Jo has had a couple of lonely dinners recently, and so it adds to this feeling of rutness that she's experiencing.

Nikki: There's some loneliness mixed into it.

Salina: Great 90s reference as well, right?

Nikki: Exactly.

Nikki: Sandal Bergman was the guest star who played Davida.

Nikki: I did a super cursory glance through her profile and credits, and she's been super productive.

Nikki: First of all, she's from Kansas City, Missouri, so a familiar part of the world for LBT.

Nikki: She seems to be most well known for her role as Valeria or Valeria in the 1982 film Conan the Barbarian.

Salina: Oh, okay.

Nikki: In fact, she won a Golden Globe from it, but most recently, she retired from acting, but seems like she did a lot of things.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: One more and then I'll let you mention a couple.

Nikki: Did you catch those stupid survival tips that Charlene was sharing with Mary Jo about if you're a single mom?

Nikki: Well, eating leafy greens, joining spas, buffing auras.

Nikki: I just wanted to say those are the things I'm trying to avoid when I give any of my wellness to, like, don't tell me to eat leafy greens.

Salina: Well, you saw reaction.

Nikki: Yeah, exactly.

Nikki: So that speaking of relatable, that was relatable to me.

Salina: Cleansing your aura.

Salina: Cleansing?

Salina: Oh, is that what it was?

Nikki: Because I also wrote down buffing.

Salina: Really?

Nikki: Oh, okay.

Salina: Buffing was to make fun of it.

Nikki: Yeah, it was a lot of stupidness.

Salina: Your aura, it's purple.

Salina: Almost Famous.

Salina: That's one we should watch.

Salina: We should just watch that.

Salina: Just because it's a d*** good movie.

Salina: Okay, so my first tray is thank God Mary Jo didn't suggest cocaine to shake things up, because I think Julia would have had a problem.

Salina: She just went to straight addict.

Salina: And I hope I don't step on feelings here.

Salina: I don't mean to, but I think just like, this idea, if you want to add running to your life, great.

Salina: But running as a way to shake things up.

Salina: This is like those conversations you and I have, and I'm like, I was so bad, I had five weren't, you know, or whatever lame thing I say when I'm like, God, my life is poor.

Nikki: Mary Jo, I think all she wanted to do was go for a couple of brisk.

Nikki: Like, I think she wanted to get some fresh morning air.

Nikki: I think she wanted to skip a boring 09:00 meeting and get some sunshine.

Salina: She wanted to get out there with those chattahoochee hard bodies.

Nikki: I don't know that she ever intended to go full on Arnold Schwarzenegger, but.

Salina: That'S why you got to be careful, because the next thing you know, you have this overzealous friend, they drag you into a podcast, and you have two years.

Salina: Just disappear.

Salina: Somebody come get Nikki linking fast.

Salina: I think that we're also getting insight into how the writers felt about the jogging trend at the time.

Salina: It's got that CrossFit energy circa 2011.

Salina: We'll get into it.

Nikki: That will be couldn't get away from.

Salina: Thursday for extra sugar, but it's just got that energy.

Salina: There's also this line about Miss America rejects in full makeup.

Salina: Ouch.

Nikki: When was that?

Salina: I think it's Mary Jo talking about her first experience out there.

Salina: And then Anthony's line, he says when they start talking that ten k stuff, that's how you know they're hooked.

Salina: Which put me in mind of like, the 13.1 stickers and 26.2 stickers.

Salina: It's like a whole culture in and of itself, which is, I think, what you're going to bring us around to.

Nikki: And maybe that's a good, excellent segue.

Nikki: That's an excellent segue to me.

Nikki: Starting music.

Nikki: It's a sidebar.

Nikki: Nikki sidebar.

Nikki: She's got a keyboard looking for a reward by digging deep in the obscure, taking us on a deep tour.

Nikki: What you got, Nikki?

Nikki: Nikki sidebar.

Nikki: I don't think I had your mic fully muted, so I think everybody got to hear you laughing through your own Russian dance to that song.

Salina: Because I'm laughing so hard at silent laughter.

Salina: And I was like, oh, yes, you may get them.

Salina: That's probably worse.

Nikki: She's working on the music video now for that one.

Nikki: And it involves like, Russian dancing.

Nikki: What is that called?

Nikki: Whatever that's called she's doing.

Nikki: So to your point, Salina, julia's encounter with Atlanta runners made me think about some of my own experiences dabbling in that world.

Nikki: So I said there was a time, a time many years ago when I did five k's, ten k's, all the way up to a half marathon.

Nikki: I did some triathlons.

Nikki: I will say, running for me was always a means to an end.

Nikki: So I did it because I had to.

Nikki: Like, if I wanted to finish a triathlon, there was some running I had to, you know, truth be told, the calorie burn from running is just so like, I'm not saying that's good.

Nikki: I'm not saying that's right.

Nikki: I'm just saying it's the truth.

Nikki: You burn a lot of calories.

Salina: It was what it was.

Nikki: It was what it was.

Nikki: But for some people, like I said a little while ago, like Julia, running is a like, it's their hobby, it's their passion.

Nikki: It's the thing they do on Saturday morning when other people might be watching TV shows or might be doing a podcast.

Nikki: Like these people are out running really long distances.

Nikki: And some of those very types of people established what is now known as the world's largest ten k right here in Atlanta.

Nikki: So I wanted to talk about them and that race today.

Nikki: So, again, other than Julia Sugarbaker and Davida last name enter here, who are some other legendary Atlanta runners.

Nikki: So I definitely went into this segment with a few names in mind, just based on my own experiences running in Atlanta.

Nikki: And so after doing my research, those names still stand.

Nikki: But there were a couple of other people I learned about that I wanted to mention.

Nikki: So I'm going to back into this segment by talking about that race, the world's largest ten k.

Nikki: It's the Peach Tree road race.

Nikki: I'm fairly certain we've talked about it on here.

Nikki: If we haven't talked about it here, I've definitely put something on social media about it.

Nikki: I do it every year.

Nikki: It's a July 4 tradition in Atlanta.

Nikki: I think this last summer was my twelveTH year doing it.

Nikki: And it's like I said, a tradition that my stepdad and I have done for a lot of years together.

Nikki: We've had other people join us through the years, but usually it's just him and me.

Nikki: The COVID year, I did by myself virtually, and then my stepdad missed a year or so here and there.

Nikki: But I've done it every year for twelve years.

Salina: It's impressive.

Nikki: I do not run fast, as I've said, I don't even try it with the peach tree.

Nikki: The peach tree.

Nikki: If you ever look up my times on the peach tree, it's depressing.

Salina: You can grab beers on the way.

Nikki: You just correct slices of pizza.

Salina: Yeah, what's the point?

Nikki: Some people give out jello shots or popsicles.

Nikki: It's a very fun race.

Nikki: It's a really big party.

Nikki: Very fun race.

Salina: I've never been.

Nikki: I'm like, yes, that sounds glorious.

Salina: I like pizza.

Nikki: You'll do it one year.

Nikki: One year you'll do it.

Nikki: It just kind of sucks.

Nikki: This is not in my segment at all.

Nikki: It just kind of sucks to get up early on the 4 July.

Nikki: It's hot in the summer.

Nikki: You don't get very many holidays, so you get one random day off during the summer and you have to spend it getting up really early.

Nikki: That's been the drawback for a lot of big races for me, is the investment.

Nikki: Like I did the Thanksgiving half marathon one year, which is great going into your Thanksgiving dinner, knowing you've burned 2000 calories so good.

Nikki: But you got up at 04:00 a.m.

Nikki: To do it.

Salina: You sure did.

Nikki: On your one day off at the same time.

Nikki: Oh, yeah.

Salina: We weren't together, but it was so cold.

Salina: Yeah, it was very cold.

Salina: I carbo loaded the incidentally.

Nikki: My other favorite part of running is the carbo loading.

Salina: Yeah, but I can still do that and I don't have to run.

Nikki: I sure can't wait to talk about exercise trends and how unhealthy we've all been through the years.

Nikki: Anyway, the Peachtree Road race started in 1970, hosted by the Atlanta Track Club.

Nikki: In the last couple of years, they celebrated the 50th anniversary it's held every year.

Nikki: It's 6 miles running straight up Peachtree Road through the heart of Atlanta.

Nikki: In the first year, 110 people ran it.

Nikki: Today about 60,000 people run it on the 4 July.

Salina: That's quite the statistical increase, isn't it?

Salina: I'm sure of it.

Nikki: So the original 110 to run the race are known in Atlanta as just that, the original 110.

Nikki: And that list is studded by names that would probably at least ring a bell with anyone who runs in Atlanta.

Nikki: I can't believe I didn't write this down, but I think there were more people registered for the race that first year, something like 300 people or something, but only 110 finished.

Nikki: It is a very challenging course.

Nikki: Atlanta is hilly, so there's a shirt, the Atlanta track club or maybe it's the big peach running company sells that says Atlanta heat, hills, humidity.

Nikki: So it's the dead heat of summer.

Nikki: I've been there years where the humidity has been like, 90% even at 07:00 a.m..

Nikki: And that's when the race you're running the race.

Nikki: If you're in one of the earlier waves and it's so hilly, isn't there.

Salina: Like a cardiac hill?

Nikki: Yes, that's the biggest hill.

Nikki: So actually, for some of the road races, like one of the half marathons, they actually offered a prize to whoever could get up that hill the fastest.

Nikki: They would look at the segments of your race times, and if you got up the hill the fastest, you won an award, because it's hard.

Salina: Yeah, I ran up that hill during that half marathon.

Salina: I'm going to tell you, I may be able to run at a pace, okay.

Salina: But I am an ex smoker, and my breathing, despite the fact that it's been a very long time since I've smoked, I think I still have some breathing issues.

Salina: So when I hit that hill, I'm breathing like I'm about to die.

Salina: And I am telling you right now that people were turning around to look at me, and I was so embarrassed, I just wanted to die, like, right there.

Salina: And I came close.

Salina: It sounded like I was about to just have a cardiac arrest right there.

Nikki: I have exercise induced asthma, so when I have to go up a big hill, I didn't get any fun out of it.

Nikki: I mean, I did enjoy cigarettes just secondhand as a child.

Salina: Just in the backseat with the windows rolled up.

Salina: Classic.

Nikki: Thanks for that.

Nikki: Every family member I have except my.

Salina: Grandparents love you, and we just dated ourselves.

Nikki: So let's name drop a couple of people who are more dated than we are.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: Oh, good.

Nikki: So a couple of those original 110.

Nikki: Jeff Galloway.

Nikki: Jeff won the first ever peach tree road race in 1970.

Nikki: He's also more or less an Atlanta native.

Nikki: He went to high school at the Westminster schools in Atlanta, and he was a state champ runner.

Nikki: He went on to run for Wesleyan University, earning all American honors in various distances.

Nikki: After college, he spent some time in the navy and moved to Florida, where he joined the Florida track club.

Nikki: During this time, he competed in the 1972 Olympics.

Nikki: And then throughout his career, he ran a lot and really fast at the age of 35.

Nikki: So that's just three years younger than you and I.

Nikki: He ran a marathon in Houston in 2 hours and 16 minutes.

Nikki: I did the math.

Nikki: That's somewhere in the range of five minute miles really fast, and did that for 26 miles.

Salina: Wow.

Nikki: Today he's still really invested in Atlanta running.

Nikki: He's a key organizer in the Peach Tree Road race.

Nikki: He owns FIDE's, which is a road race running store, like running shoes and stuff, like the store Julia visited in this episode.

Nikki: At one point, there were 35 stores spread across the country, but today it's just the final two in Atlanta.

Nikki: He owns Galloway Productions, which conducts fitness seminars and training groups.

Nikki: And not to brag, but I've definitely been on the course with Jeff before.

Nikki: He does triathlons and road races.

Nikki: So, yep, I've seen him in person.

Nikki: He looks like a man who has run for the better part of his life.

Nikki: The second person I wanted to mention was Bill Thorne Senior, who holds the honor of being the only runner in history to have run every single Peach Tree Road Race.

Nikki: He was one of the original 110, and actually, just this past summer, on July 4, 2023, he retired from the Peach Tree Road Race after okay, I.

Salina: Thought you were going to say something way more sad than that.

Nikki: No.

Nikki: After 53 years, he's 92 years old.

Salina: Or 92 years young.

Nikki: This year, he was honored as the races grand marshal, riding the entire course all the way to the finish line, where he was granted a ceremonial finish.

Salina: I thought you were going to say the race's grandfather.

Nikki: Hold on, I got something like that.

Salina: Okay.

Nikki: In an Atlanta track club press statement, he said, it's been really exciting over the years, but there comes a time when you have to let go.

Nikki: And then he later told Runners World there's only one way to stop worrying about not being able to finish the race or not finishing, and that's just to be finished.

Nikki: He said, I'm just going into a new era, which I thought was a really nice way of looking at it.

Nikki: He's not seeing it as something he's losing, but something he's gaining nice.

Nikki: The third person I wanted to mention was Gail Baron, who is another original 110 and an Atlanta native.

Nikki: She went to Druid Hills High School and then onto UGA, where that's actually where she started running.

Nikki: She was a co founder of the Petrie Road Race in 1970 and would go on to be the fastest female finisher almost every year for those first five years.

Nikki: She ran professionally for just under a decade, starting in 1974.

Nikki: Her final big win was in the 1978 Boston Marathon.

Nikki: When she finished running, she became a coach.

Nikki: According to the AJC, she has coached thousands of Atlanta area runners through various nonprofits, including her own Team Spirit, which raised funds for the Afflac Cancer Center.

Nikki: In 2003, she was inducted into the Georgia Sports Hall of Fame and then into the Atlanta Sports Hall of Fame in 2007.

Nikki: And of course, I cannot cover everything because I don't want this to be the entire episode, but I'm going to link to a couple of things in the show notes about her.

Nikki: She just seems really cool.

Nikki: She's 1970s beautiful.

Nikki: Like all the pictures of her, she's perfectly tan.

Nikki: She looks amazing.

Nikki: Apparently that was something people used against her, that she was too pretty to be running or that she should have been doing all these other things.

Nikki: She's very southern so even her own mother had raised her to sort of think like sweating and running was a thing you don't do.

Nikki: So she sort of had to overcome some of that.

Nikki: Like I said, she started running really late.

Nikki: A lot of really elite runners start running really young, like preteens teenage years.

Nikki: She started in college just as like a hobby.

Nikki: So she seems like a pretty cool so the last person I wanted to mention was Papa Peachtree.

Salina: Okay, now we're talking.

Nikki: Peach Tree's papa actually as I think what they call him.

Nikki: So he's not technically a runner as far as I can tell, but Tim Singleton or Dr.

Nikki: Tim Singleton is definitely a crucial figure woven into the Peachtree Road Race.

Nikki: Okay.

Salina: I didn't expect for him to not be a know, you know, he may.

Nikki: Have run, maybe he was like a hobby runner, but it really seems like most of what he did was sort of like race setup.

Nikki: He was also a cross country coach and the dean of men's at your alma mater, Salina, Georgia State.

Nikki: And then he founded the Peachtree Road Race.

Nikki: Again, I'm also going to link to he has passed.

Nikki: I'm going to link to a couple of things which may be obituaries, but they're BIOS of him and his kids tell these really charming anecdotes of going and helping him set up early races.

Nikki: The Peach Tree Road Race.

Nikki: Which now includes a lottery to get in.

Nikki: And then, of course, a gigantic expo the two days before the race just to go pick up your number.

Nikki: At the time they founded it, it was literally he and his wife and young kids set up a table and registration was him checking your name off a list and then they would hustle down Peachtree to get to the finish line so that they could see the final, keep track of the finishers and whatever.

Nikki: It's super charming.

Nikki: So before I leave this sidebar though, if anybody is a runner and is looking for or maybe just a walker, you can walk these things too.

Nikki: Looking for road races in the south.

Nikki: I'm going to include several links in the show notes, but here were my top three as I was looking through the Asheville Marathon in North Carolina.

Nikki: You and I both love Asheville.

Nikki: This race has you running through some of the best parts of the city.

Nikki: You run downtown through the Arts district, along the French Broad River and then through the city park.

Nikki: So that could be a fun one to do.

Nikki: Really pretty.

Nikki: The second one is the Crescent City Classic in Louisiana.

Nikki: This is sort of Louisiana's peach tree.

Nikki: Road race.

Nikki: It recently celebrated its 40th birthday.

Nikki: It's an Easter weekend tradition in New Orleans.

Nikki: It hosts 20,000 runners running through New Orleans, like through the French Quarter and up Esplanade Avenue.

Nikki: And then the last one is the Kioa Island Marathon in South Carolina.

Nikki: I just saw a picture and the views are really, um actually, the website says, enjoy maritime forest, marsh views and grand homes as you run through this island community.

Salina: That is a cool thing about runs that I'll just chime in with real quickly.

Salina: And that's what I really liked about that half marathon.

Salina: And when we did that chocolate, we did it for the chocolate, is if there is a little bit of a rebel inside of you like there is in me, there's something really neat about being able to run somewhere you normally can't run, be somewhere you normally can't be, especially like, on bridges and stuff, but you're safe.

Salina: You won't get struck by a car.

Salina: I think that was probably my favorite thing about being actually going and experiencing a race, was being able to experience something that only you and your closest 60,000 friends experienced.

Salina: And that might sound like a big number, and it is, but it's not in the grand scheme of things.

Nikki: Right.

Nikki: Spread out over 6 miles, it's not that many people.

Nikki: That's why the Disney World half Marathons and races kind of stick in my head, because you get to run through the park before it's open and when no one else is there.

Nikki: Now, that means you have to get up really early, which is sort of a drawback for me at this point in my life any earlier than I have to.

Nikki: So I really liked digging into runners and road races.

Nikki: What did you like about this episode that is good?

Salina: Well, I liked it when Charlene helped Suzanne understand what endorphins are with the pageant crown reference.

Nikki: And on that note, though, Julia's endorphined up attitude was one of the things I liked in this episode.

Nikki: Like you said, she was just hype.

Nikki: She was runners high hype, but we never see joy in her face like this.

Nikki: There was obvious difference when she was running, and then at the end of the episode when she's told she can't run anymore right.

Salina: And everybody ruined it for her.

Salina: Yeah, there is probably something to that, even if she was slightly, as Charlene put it, obnoxious.

Salina: Mary Jo's got some really funny lines in this one.

Salina: I think it also included in mine is the thing about the pageant rejects, or actually, I think that's just kind of mean, but it's surrounded by funny things.

Salina: So when they get back from jogging in the middle of the episode and this literally, I've had a very close running experience, but she goes, you could have warned me.

Salina: It was hard enough trying to keep up with that pack of Miss America rejects and full makeup, but when that guy in the wheelchair passed me and I thought to myself, I may be in a sweatsuit and I may be jogging, but I'm still just a slug in Nikes.

Salina: I had a total flashback to the time that I got passed by a lady with not one, but two strollers.

Salina: So as much as Nikki's over here, and she's like, you fast, I got passed by a lady pushing two babies in a stroller, and I think she was pregnant.

Nikki: The downside of running is that I find most of the time there's always someone who's faster.

Salina: Right?

Salina: I mean, and she had like a book bag on or something.

Salina: It was just like the more I.

Nikki: Looked at walking a dog.

Salina: So I like that line.

Salina: And then on Davida incidentally, this was a misoservation earlier on in my part because we haven't gotten a reference from Mary Jo in some time, but she said I have to admire the running bra.

Salina: She must have.

Salina: I mean, it must be super industrial strength.

Salina: You all should see this woman.

Salina: It looks like she has two giant honeydews latched to her chest.

Salina: I'm sorry, but I swear this woman could play volleyball with herself.

Salina: She's got a little bit more Southern than that.

Nikki: I did have that reference in my strays above.

Nikki: I also really liked Julia's pep talk for Mary Jo at the end, reminding her of all the important things she's followed through on, like her kids, her business, and her friendships.

Nikki: Yes, Julia can be a really, really good friend.

Salina: Cheerleader.

Nikki: Yeah, she can be a really good friend.

Nikki: And I just feel like everybody deserves a friend like that.

Nikki: And so I just appreciated that Mary Jo was vulnerable in sharing.

Nikki: Like, gosh darn it, why are you so good at everything?

Nikki: And it drives me crazy, and I'm just this lump in Nikes or whatever she said.

Nikki: And Julia's like, you're not seeing what I'm seeing.

Nikki: Like, you're following through on all these amazing things.

Nikki: I thought that was really nice.

Salina: Yeah, I liked that.

Salina: I agree.

Salina: I've got a couple others, but okay.

Nikki: I'm done with okay, so I'm done with this.

Salina: So Anthony carrying in Mary Jo on his shoulders, followed by her retelling of what happened to get there.

Salina: So brace yourselves.

Salina: Will somebody please help me off with these shoes?

Salina: On second thought, just cut my feet off at the ankles first.

Salina: I tripped over one of those stupid happy face mile markers and almost broke my leg.

Salina: Then this huge German shepherd chased me through the duck pond and treed me in one of those post Armageddon modern art sculptures.

Salina: I felt like that woman in Kujo.

Salina: But the worst part was crawling back to the parking lot and throwing up in front of a bunch of Japanese tourists.

Salina: My gosh, what did they do?

Salina: They took my picture.

Nikki: So embarrassing.

Salina: It also just feels like I mean, maybe this feels like every park, but it did feel very much so like, in the vein of parks around here with the modern art pieces and then the random duck pond.

Salina: It was just good.

Salina: Anthony describing all the keywords that indicate someone has a running addiction, followed by Julia coming in, saying them all, every.

Nikki: Single one of them.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: And then the very end when Suzanne moved down to the other side of the couch.

Salina: You mentioned this earlier, but I really love and because I don't know, for one, it gives her kind of, like, the button and the punch at the end.

Salina: But I also like that it was a callback to the previous episode, and her not wanting to give it up to Mrs.

Salina: Chesley.

Salina: The seat not wanting to give the seat up to Miss Chesley.

Salina: What about things we didn't like?

Nikki: I did not appreciate the goldfish runner through the episode.

Nikki: Yeah, I get that.

Nikki: It exists.

Nikki: I think.

Nikki: So we can see the point of Julia neglecting her friends a little bit more clearly.

Nikki: Like, he specifically asked her to watch it, and then she neglected yeah.

Nikki: It didn't do well, but it was just so random.

Nikki: Like, what was the point?

Salina: Or like, she never says she was sorry.

Nikki: Yeah, she killed it.

Nikki: She killed it.

Salina: Now, should he have taken care of his own fish?

Nikki: Yes.

Nikki: But every now and then, you got to call in help.

Salina: That's true.

Nikki: Every now and then.

Salina: That's true.

Salina: He was delivering all of the things.

Nikki: Yeah.

Nikki: It's not like he was off in Bora Bora.

Nikki: That's right.

Nikki: I just didn't understand that it was also yeah.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: It felt like some things got cut, but they yeah.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: I double checked.

Salina: Weirder.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: Unless listener Adam tells me I miss just it was just random and weird.

Nikki: Not, like probably actually not enough to be a dislike, but actually kind of was.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: So that was it for only so.

Salina: I didn't like that.

Salina: I had added that in this morning, actually, because I just thought that, like, poor Amadeus.

Salina: Like, she was totally blase.

Salina: She apologized to Mary Jo at the end.

Salina: She never apologizes to Anthony.

Salina: She killed his fish.

Nikki: Killed his fish.

Salina: I think the pacing in this one, ironically, maybe was, like, a little problematic because we just spent so much of the episode just trying to figure out how to shake up Mary Jo's life.

Salina: I'm not sure I needed any more time in those other scenes, really, but it just felt like literally one third of the episode, we're just in the.

Nikki: Office complaining where I spend a third of my life.

Salina: No, it ain't.

Salina: It's, like, half.

Salina: That's a problem for all of us.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: You want to rate the second show and retire?

Nikki: My rating scale was bring your own carb parties.

Salina: All right.

Nikki: I actually gave it a five out of five.

Salina: Oh, look at you.

Nikki: I really liked this episode.

Salina: I felt back on normal footing.

Nikki: It was a little bit goofy, but there was like a little bit of heart between the friends at the end.

Nikki: Although you're making me rethink that when Julia didn't apologize to Anthony, like, what's that about?

Nikki: Maybe it's because she forgot there was a goldfish runner because it was so random.

Nikki: Why did we even have yeah, I really this one for me, was one that I didn't mind rewatching, which, as I've said before, is going to be my new rating skill.

Nikki: How rewatchable is it?

Nikki: I'd rewatch.

Nikki: This one probably also was a little more relatable to me because it's Atlanta and the Atlanta running scene, and I'm familiar with it.

Nikki: I know these people they're talking about.

Nikki: Sure.

Nikki: So I really liked it.

Nikki: What about you?

Salina: I gave it 3.8 out of five super industrial strength running bras.

Salina: So I will say that this is the second episode in a row that I enjoyed more on rewatch than when we first previewed the episodes.

Salina: And I thought that it had some really high highs, but otherwise there was just something about it that fell a little flat for me.

Salina: I still really liked it.

Salina: It just didn't, for me, sing in quite the way that some episodes do.

Salina: I get that 90s things.

Nikki: Dan Quail's personal physician.

Nikki: That's what quint told his classmate Ted was going to do.

Nikki: I just so you know, I looked it up and it seems like he had sort of a team of physicians, not just one.

Nikki: So I don't know if there was like, one in particular that made them think to write about that, but seems like there were several.

Nikki: Julia had a Gatorade bottle at one point that just really stood out.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: There was some mention at some point about a martinizing plant.

Nikki: You gave us the rundown on martinizing in one of our early seasons.

Nikki: This is like the dry cleaning method.

Salina: Oh, right.

Salina: I'm like, what good that it stuck.

Salina: Yes.

Nikki: Pizza Hut.

Nikki: There was this reference to Raymond Fosdick who used to take his heart rate at a Pizza Hut.

Nikki: Pizza Huts just used to be different in the don't know how to fully explain that to people, but it used to be a full sit down restaurant.

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: It was like a whole experience.

Nikki: So it's reasonable that there would be a heart rate monitor machine there like there are in pharmacy.

Salina: I missed that reference completely.

Nikki: Oh, I'd have to look it up to find the line exactly where they were talking about it.

Salina: Go ahead.

Salina: I'll just sit here.

Nikki: Okay.

Nikki: Well, I'll say one more thing, and then while you're talking about yours, I'll look it up.

Nikki: There was.

Salina: No, I'm kidding.

Nikki: A reference to Yuppie sports gear.

Nikki: Rama.

Nikki: That's what they called the sports store.

Nikki: They were in obsession with Yuppies.

Salina: Yeah.

Salina: I had women's magazines as a go to on anything and everything.

Salina: It just doesn't feel the same in the digital era.

Salina: We're not all looking at the same thing.

Salina: We're much more fragmented.

Salina: There's a magazine for everything.

Salina: Whereas then I think it was like Cosmo Red book, right?

Salina: Not that those things won't still exist.

Salina: It's just far different now.

Salina: Also just like this stereotype about Japanese tourists taking a lot of pictures.

Salina: One, I think there's something about that that feels something and perhaps even a little cringey.

Salina: But more so than that, it doesn't even make sense anymore.

Salina: We're all taking pictures of literally everything.

Salina: We're all very self focused.

Salina: I wasn't actually sure where to put this.

Salina: I had this at first in references that we need to talk about, but it really is about the 90s.

Salina: So I'll go ahead and share it here, which is just that the was just wondering, why are we talking so much about running?

Salina: And why does there seem to be this really big stereotype about it at this time?

Salina: So I tracked down this women's running magazine article in my physical description.

Salina: Women's magazine.

Salina: Coffee.

Salina: But anyways, they were talking about how the 90s is considered by many to be the second running boom.

Salina: The first was in the 70s.

Nikki: You don't say.

Nikki: Peach tree rotary.

Salina: That's right.

Salina: So it was definitely putting me in the mind of that.

Salina: Or like these pieces were coming together for me from what I looked at and what you looked at.

Salina: But you also mentioned this one earlier.

Salina: But even Disney entered the scene holding its first marathon in January of 94.

Salina: And this is at Disney World.

Salina: Of course, Ala Vatina Nuamova took home the grand prize with a record that still stands today at 2 hours, 34 minutes and 47 seconds.

Salina: That sounds very much so in Jeff Galloway's range.

Nikki: Maybe he just never did the Disney World ones.

Salina: Let her hold her record run by the Castle Man.

Salina: But if you ask me what really probably meant the 90s running status, oprah freaking Winfrey.

Salina: So 94.

Salina: She ran the Marine Corps Marathon in 4 hours and 29 minutes and 20 seconds.

Salina: She was 40.

Salina: And the mantra for runners became, if Oprah can do it, so can you.

Salina: She apparently which I think it's nice, and also, like, I made a finger gesture, rude gesture.

Salina: But she apparently also said that it was better than winning an Emmy.

Salina: I also then found a Forbes article might say something about the Emmys.

Salina: I also found a Forbes everyone's getting crapped on.

Salina: Anyways, this Forbes article, it kind of asserted the same thing.

Salina: So apparently her running, it sort of busted up this excuse, I'm too busy for that.

Salina: But like busier than Oprah feels like a fair thing to say what I could not.

Nikki: But to be fair, Oprah had people cooking for her and doing her chores and running her errands.

Salina: That's true.

Salina: She did have all of those things.

Salina: What I couldn't get a handle on was the running trend in the early 90s.

Salina: This episode makes it sound like a gnome factor, but my guess is once it gets to the big corporations like Disney and Oprah starts taking part.

Salina: Obviously, the organic piece has already happened.

Salina: And of course, while this is set in Atlanta, we're really in La.

Salina: And as we know, most times our trends start on the coast and then work their way in.

Salina: Other 90s things.

Salina: I'm out, you're out.

Salina: Southern things.

Nikki: There was the reference to Joggers at the Chattahoochee and Chattahoochee River Park where Mary Jo and Julia run.

Nikki: Chattahoochee river is a real place.

Nikki: It's a real place.

Nikki: I do think Chattahoochee River Park is real.

Salina: Chattahoochee River National Recreation Area.

Nikki: Yes, thank you.

Nikki: That is real.

Salina: It's also I am putting them on the East Palisades Trail.

Salina: And this is a really popular area for all the outdoorsy folks, like, not just the exercisers, but also for fishing and whatnot.

Salina: And it is also chock full of the people we get descriptions of.

Salina: It's also where the bamboo forest is, which is something I mentioned here a long time ago.

Salina: But that's a cool thing that's out there as well.

Salina: The East Palisades Trail is beautiful.

Salina: So I get the you're talking about the scenery just being nice and that being a nice part of that particular type of exercise.

Salina: You could do worse.

Salina: And then my last reference in this category was accidentally putting Southern things.

Salina: It was walkman headphones.

Salina: I'm pretty sure I meant for that to go in 90s.

Salina: So that's what you call needing glasses references we needed to talk about.

Nikki: I don't think I have anything.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: I was just going to say we got a ton of running references.

Salina: Like, so many running references and so many things related to it, from types of shoes, like just soups to nuts.

Salina: I counted 13 references, like different running references.

Salina: I'm not going to go through all of them.

Salina: Then we got the Baton death march.

Nikki: I intentionally didn't mention that and I'm.

Salina: Not going to mention it either.

Salina: If you're really curious, you can look it up yourself.

Salina: It is very sad.

Salina: World War II.

Salina: People do mean things.

Salina: I don't know.

Salina: All right, that's all my references.

Salina: Okay.

Salina: You sure?

Salina: Yeah.

Nikki: Okay.

Nikki: So our next episode is season five, episode nine, a Class Act.

Nikki: We'd love everyone to follow along with us and engage Instagram and Facebook at Sweet teantv TikTok at sweettvpod.

Nikki: We are on YouTube at sweettv 7371.

Nikki: You can email us at

Nikki: And our website is

Nikki: There are several ways you can support the show.

Nikki: Like we told you very firmly in our last episode, you are welcome to firmly but sweetly welcome to leave a rating or review wherever you listen.

Nikki: And then you can visit the website where we have a Support US tab so you can find ways to support us and then come back Thursday for extra sugar, where we're going to talk about fitness trends.

Nikki: OOH.

Nikki: Not just running.

Salina: That's right, everybody, grab your Shake Weights and we'll see you around the bend.

Salina: Bye.

Salina: Om.


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