In season 7, episode 13, all the ladies – even the ones who didn’t want to admit it (JULIA) – were wrapped by the celebrity scandal of the moment: Squidgygate.
This was the perfect inspiration for us to also talk about celebrity scandals. So join us as we break down their favorite – and then we both bring a few of our own to the table: several Southern ones and then one that we can’t stop obsessing over for like, oh, four months now.
Read up on Squidgygate:
Our selected scandals and more, much, much more:
Matthew McConaughey on his 1999 nude bongo arrest: 'F**k, yeah, I resisted'
17 Hollywood Scandals That Were A Massive Deal At The Time That Everyone Has Forgotten About Now
Blake Lively Responds to Justin Baldoni’s New $400 Million Lawsuit | Us Weekly
What’s Pam Anderson got to do with The Chicks??? This article will tell ya.
How getting “Dixie Chicked” became a concept that shaped the music landscape for years.
A much-shorter-than-Nikki’s take on Paula Deen’s 2013 controversy, a more in-depth one, if you’re interested, and Michael Twitty’s open letter.
Or listen on Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music.
Transcript
Extra Sugar comes to the table to talk about our favorite celebrity scandals
Foreign.
Hey, Nikki.
Hey, Salina.
and hey, y'all. And welcome to this week's Extra Sugar. today we're going to talk about celebrity scandals. And if you're not new, well, you already know that we love a scandal. Back in season five, episode 14, Nikki did one on music controversies that you should definitely check out.
Hey, thank you.
If you have checked it out, do it again. Do it twice. Keep listening. Put it on repeat. Keep going. It'd be wonderful. this time, in terms of scandals, we were inspired by Designing Women Season 7, Episode 13 oh, dog. Poor dog. Where all the ladies, even the ones who didn't want to admit it. Julia. Were wrapped by the celebrity scandal of the moment. That scandal is Squidgy Gate.
Of course. None other than.
Oh, yeah, I guess I should have done. I don't even think I can say that.
Squidgy Gates. Okay.
Thank you.
I don't know. How does that sound? I'm, like my British accent is inconsistent at best, and at times it sounds very Australian.
I think that makes sense because you're not, British and I'm not an.
Actor and I have no talents. Thanks, Salina.
My Southern accent's pretty inconsistent.
Yeah.
So what are you gonna do?
Bowl naked?
Tall toilet. Oh, I got made fun of not long ago because I said there was a frozen armadillo during the.
You mean an armadillo?
And that's what I said. And I walked up on it and I was so sad. I know it must have gotten hit and then like flash frozen, so. But I walked up on it and I said, is that an armadillo? And I heard about it for two days.
So good people.
Anyway.
Good people.
To keep you honest, Casey was like, that's armadillo. And I was like, well, how do you know she's not a woman?
It was a fast patriarchy. It was quick.
Anyways. Anyways, we're going to talk about it. Not about, armadillos. No.
Armadillos.
No. We're going to talk about Squidgy Gate. And then you and I are going to. We. We came to the table today to talk about our favorite celebrity scandal. So we're going to talk about a couple of those. I want to be very clear that the definition for favorite may vary. So, for instance, maybe we loved it, maybe we hated it. Maybe we hate that we love it.
That's it.
Yeah. There's a lot of options here.
I can answer. That's how I feel about all of these.
That's fair.
I find myself, like, fixated. On celebrity scandals. And I'm like, why? Yeah, why are you doing this?
No. And then we're like, let's get together for an hour and a half and talk about it. You, will not hate the very last one that we're going to talk about.
We want to approach this with as much respect as possible
Perfect. As usual. As usual.
As usual.
Do you think everybody just thinks I'm, like, pounding drinks and before I get started on these, I'm not. As usual. We want to approach this with as much respect as possible. Except for right here at the beginning.
Disrespect, disrespect, disrespect. And we're professional now.
That's right. So. But these are real humans with real lives. And yet, at the same time, we are also humans ourselves. So we crave drama just as much as the next piece.
I'm not proud. I'm not proud.
I'm just a crappy person.
I am really awful. Just come on the bottom of your shoe.
There's a famous phone call between Princess Diana and James Gilby
Well, let me ask you, so, Squidgy gate. Did you know about this?
I think so. I didn't know that it was called squidgy Gate. I think the crown kind of tiptoed around some of this.
I think you're going exactly where I was going. I don't think we actually get squidgy gate, though. Right? We get tampon gate. They're all. It's always a gate, you know, some kind of gates. And what I remember, like, really also is, like, this random ham radio guy, and he intercepts these calls with the royal family and he sells them to the son or whatever. So Squidgy Gate is among these calls. And this one is specifically between Princess Diana and James Gilby. He's a Lotus salesman and heir to a gin fortune.
Wait, what? He sells lotuses and he's an heir to a gin. Gin.
Oh, I don't know why my tongue went out for that. You drink tin with your tongue out Anyway.
Not a drinker.
Isn't that, like, a strange combination, though?
Well, I just don't understand why he would need to sell lotuses. Like, why would you work?
All we're trying to do is retire. Is wealthy. And also maybe.
And selling cars is just, like. Seems so hard.
Maybe he just loves a really short car. Maybe they're, like, up to my room.
He might have just been passionate about the product. I guess that's true.
It could be.
Carry on.
I. I myself love a lotus.
I've already been distracted. This is going to go great.
Two and a half hours. Go ahead, turn the clock on. so anyways, this call in particular takes place on New year's Eve of 1989. Let's just say their conversation was intimate. During that 23 minute phone call, Gilby called her darling 53 times and squeegee 14 times. Hence, Squidgy gate.
Right.
Quick, let me ask you. You know what a squidgy is?
No.
It's a real word.
Okay.
So I looked this up.
Not the same as a squeegee.
I just assumed it was like a pet name. But, yeah, I was like, let me check myself.
Where'd you.
Because I was like, these are Brits.
Yeah.
They got a lot of words we don't know.
Right?
You know, so, it's an adjective that describes something soft, wet, and easily squashed or change shape when pressed. Think a marshmallow, a stress ball, fresh bread out of the oven. Or a princess, perhaps.
Oh, I don't like that. Yeah, I don't like that. Yeah, stick with darling. He said that 42 times.
I guess squidgy is kind of like squishy. It doesn't matter.
Also don't want to be called squishy by my lover. Huh?
This is like any food that is, like, on the. I like on the food aisle in Kroger or something.
Food that's on the food aisle.
On the food aisle. But it'll be like fats. And I'm like, I don't want that. It's like, chuck it, butt.
I'm an elder millennial with a very unhealthy relationship with food. I cannot have this branding.
Sorry. Speaking of squidgies, my chair. Squidge in all over this table.
So squishy is a real name, and it's a word other people use to describe people. Like an affectionate term. you don't know that.
Okay, I don't know. So I don't know if that was just this Lotus salesperson's way about it or what.
He seems smarmy.
Right.
A random man intercepted Diana's phone call and then sold it to a newspaper
So, back to the scandal. I just needed you to.
Please.
I just needed you to know so that I take my research very seriously. So that random guy who intercepted the call was, Cyril Renan, a retired bank manager who accidentally heard the conversation a few days later on his ham radio. Then he recorded it and then he sold it. So he and his wife apparently use this as some sort of entertainment that is intercepting people's calls and listening to them.
That sounds like something I would do if I knew the technology.
Do you want me to read you what my next line was going to be?
Sounds like something Nikki would do. No, she Knew the technology.
This is not normal behavior. Right. But there was a little voice in the back of my head. Nikki's gonna be.
Leave room for Nikki's crazy.
I love this idea, but it also seems, like, super illegal. You can do that.
so sometimes on baby monitors, you'll pick up other. Especially in the old days. It's not quite the same anymore. It does make me deep. It's happened to me a couple of times. It makes me deeply uncomfortable.
Yeah. Except for all the times you're listening to other people's conversations.
Naturally squidgy.
Right.
So it's an inconsistent accent.
I think it's lovely. Very beautiful. anyways, I think he read that he was very scared when he intercepted this call, and it was someone from the royal family. So naturally, he went and sold it to the paper.
I'm so afraid. Do you want to buy this from me?
No. That's what I said. I was like, who is this guy?
I need to buy a home in Greece to come do it myself.
And so I. She was not going to luck out because this call was also, intercepted by another person in. Recorded this time by Jane Norgrove, a typist. Because that's, again, the first thing someone does when they hear a call is they're like, where's my recorder? Just tape it.
Anyways, an enterprising individual.
I read differing accounts of who published the tapes. First, some said it was the sun, and I think that's how it happened on the Crown. But others said it was actually the Inquirer here in America. Either way, that story didn't break until August 1992. So that's almost three years after those tapes were sold. For what it's worth, the Designing Women episode. The, Designing Women episode premiered in January of 93. Also, like on Designing Women, the transcripts were available, and you could call a phone line, pay a premium, and listen to the audio yourself. Today you can pull it up on YouTube. What a magical time we live in. In for free. Oh, you don't have to pay for it anymore.
To be clear, the fact that this exists tells you it is normal behavior for someone to record these tapes. That is normal if you know the technology, because you know the world wants to hear it.
I guess. I guess so. maybe I don't recall this one again, because I just think Tampon Gate was really overshadowing everything.
Sure. Because it's.
Yeah, but this is about Squidgy Gate, so if you want to learn about Tampon Gate, you gotta watch the crowd that yourself.
Oh, that too.
Yes, that too. they did pull exact wording and everything, so. So Diana did also think her phone line was tapped. Not to go back to the Crown again, but that tidbit is in the show. According to an Australian News article in 2008, during the inquest into her death, her former protection officer claimed the call between her and Gilby had been recorded by the British Secret Service and broadcast on a loop hop. Someone would pick them up. So I. I don't know that's true. I just know that that's what was said at the time.
For the record, his name also sounds like a pet name.
Gilby.
My little Kilby Squidgy.
just seems like. I don't know. The Lotus, the Gin, the exciting Squidgy. Yeah. Yes, that's what I was gonna say. I wasn't gonna say anything mean. That's all you need to know. Anyways. That's a lot to unpack, to be honest. And I will tell you that I approach anything in the royal universe with a lot of skepticism because there's just so many competing PR folks in the mix. what's real, what's fake. It's like, impossible to tell. Which we will. We will revisit this problem again here shortly. But, I. What?
I think that speaks to an obsession with the Royal family at the time
Before we move on to your selected scandal, is there anything else that I didn't cover that you're dying to know about? Squidgy Gate? I won't know anything.
I was gonna say probably, but. No, we're good.
Okay.
We're good. It was amazing. I don't know that I realized you could call in and hear these tapes. Or that like, we were. We were reading full transcripts of them, for instance, and I think that just speaks to such a moment in time, obsession with the Royal family, and just how outta control it had all gotten.
Well, an obsession and also, worse technology, you know.
Right.
So. Because it's. Yeah, I don't know. That's a good question. Like. Or to think about, like, what is more out of control then or now?
Yeah, I mean, they've definitely had their run ins with people hacking their phones and reading, their text messages, for instance.
Look what they did to Kate.
Yeah.
You know, or the things that we, saw that just them trying to get to Harry and Megan.
Yeah.
When they moved to the U.S. they're like swimming through the swamp and, you know, just doing weird stuff.
Weird.
Anyways, I don't know.
Emily Irwin: Dixie Chicks controversy rocked country music in 2003
So, ready for my first one? What's scandalous for you, my first one has a Southern Both of mine actually today have Southern slants.
Yes. Nikki, for her part of the exercise, remembered that we are a Southern podcast, whereas I was like, oh, this crap is weird. I'm gonna cover that.
Only cuz boss lady reminded me of that a couple months ago. So it's fresh in my mind. I, want to start my first one with a dramatic reading.
Oh, wonderful.
I made my bed and I sleep like a baby with no regrets. And I don't mind saying it's a sad, sad story When a mother will teach her daughter that she ought to hate a perfect stranger. And how in the world can the words that I said send somebody so over the edge that they'd write me a letter saying that I better shut up and sing or my life will be over? Did you get chill bumps?
I'm, riveted.
Every elder millennial country lover or country music adjacent lover probably just got chill bumps and strongly fought the urge to belt those words as I read them. For the uninitiated, those words form the bridge to the 2006 chicks, then known as the Dixie Chicks anthem. not ready to make nice. But before we can get there, we have to go back in time three years to 2003. An excellent vintage for high school graduations for some people.
Oh, people.
So up to that point in time, the current lineup of the band had released three studio albums, starting with Wide Open Spaces in 1998. In the span of just those five years, they had won eight Academy of Country Music awards, ten Country Music association awards, and seven Grammys. They were unequivocally among the most successful in music, country music or otherwise. However, that all came to a screeching halt at a show in London on March 10, 2003. While performing, lead singer Natalie Maine shared that the band did not support the forthcoming invasion of Iraq and that the band was ashamed that President George W. Bush was from Texas. The Chicks are also from Texas, So, Papa Salina, Texas is in the south because it's part of my segment. the backlash was swift and immense. They were blacklisted from thousands of country radio stations, and the band members received death threats. that should sound familiar from the lyrics that I just read. According to one article I found, Bill O'Reilly said on Fox News, these are callow, foolish women who deserve to be slapped around.
there's someone I don't miss.
Maines received one death threat so credible that the FBI recommended that the band cancel a show in Dallas. In researching for this article, I actually found some comments from a recent Pamela Anderson interview where she said years ago she was confronted on a plane and threatened by a fellow pastor passenger because he thought she was one of the Dixie Chicks.
Oh,
So that's how severe all of this became. That's wild, right?
I mean, how do you let something take up that much of your brain space?
It's crazy. Yeah, it's so crazy. So from a business perspective, at the time of the controversy, they had a single which was a cover of Fleetwood Max Landslide. After the remarks, it fell from number 10 to number 43 on the Hot 100 chart and then left the chart just a week later. Maines did eventually issue an apology, noting that her remark had been disrespectful. So it took them three years before they attempted another album. So when they did, it was taken the long way. Which contains Not Ready to Make Nice. It debuted at number one on the U.S. pop Albums chart and the U.S. country Albums chart, selling more than 500,000 copies in the first week, making it a gold record within one week of release. With that, they became the first female band in chart history to have three albums debut at number one. However, neither their first or second single from the album reached up to the top 35 on the Hot country songs chart. Remember, they were banned from country music radio stations. So it became super clear the country music industry had turned against them. And it sounds like there wasn't much love lost. So that year, band member Emily Emily Irwin said, a lot of artists, artists cashed in on being against what we said or what we stood for because that was promoting their career, which was a horrible thing to do. A lot of pandering started going on and you'd see souls soldiers and the American flag in every video. It became a sickening display of ultra patriotism.
I'm, picturing like very specific artists in my head.
Toby Keith, kick him in the face with a steel toed boot. Rest in peace. Yeah, it's very, It's a very specific moment in time.
That's not who I was picturing.
So that same year. So this is all 2006. Natalie rescinded her 2003 apology, saying she felt Bush deserved no respect. They launched a tour that year which was successful in a lot of places, notably Canada, because the Canadians love them. Some country music. I don't know if a lot of people know that. but tickets.
Irish love Garth Brooks.
Everybody loves Garth Brooks, but the Irish.
Love him more than anyone.
More than anyone.
More than anyone.
They know what they're up to.
More than Trisha Ireland.
Trisha might not love him so much.
Local radio stations refused to accept Dixie Chicks ads for Houston show
Speaking of a scandal, have you been following that one?
I haven't.
Oh, that's another one. Another one for another day. but tickets for their Houston show, their hometown, never even went on sale because local radio stations refused to accept advertisements for the show. Taking the Long Way ended up being the 9th biggest selling album of the year. They won Grammys in all five categories in which they were nominated. And Maines interpreted the win as support for their advocacy of free speech. They also released a documentary that year about the incident called Dixie Chicks Shut up and Sing. A couple of major networks declined to run ads promoting the documentary because of policies against ads about, quote, public controversy. Notably, the film's made up. Yeah, notably, the film's distributor was the Weinstein Company. Like Harvey.
Oh, no.
About the lack of support. He said, it's a sad commentary about the level of fear in our society that a movie about a group of courageous entertainers who were blacklisted for exercising their right of free speech is now being itself blacklisted by corporate America. So because Harvey's name came into this, I did a, smidge more digging because that didn't feel like the whole story, you know, Know your source. so it sounds like it wasn't the whole story. Like, they were declined to run the ads at certain times because it wasn't consistent with their ad policy during those hours. So, like, maybe if it's peak family watching time, we don't run ads about political things, but off hours we might. Or maybe on a Saturday or something.
Where'd those rules go? Yeah, let me tell you. During election season, I felt like it was happening all the time. I don't even, like, have commercials, and commercials were coming in.
You know, this is. That's what people have been trying to tell you.
Don't care anymore.
The old days were the good old days. They've said this over and over again. maybe you'll believe it.
Make commercials great again.
I did not say that. Did not say that.
Not me.
At any rate, after all this, they went on hiatus for 14 years. They didn't release another album until 2020's Gaslighter. but the chicks have spoken a lot over the years about the controversy, and they've certainly not shied away from cultural and political commentary. So, for instance, in 2020, after reading an article that framed the Confederate flag as, quote, the Dixie swastika, they finally made good on something they'd wanted to do for years, which is drop Dixie from their name. Original Pull. Originally pulling inspiration from the 1973 Little Feet song Dixie Chicken. in 2020, they were inspired by the George Floyd protests and the Black Lives Matter movement, saying, it definitely lit a fire in us to be on the right side of history. And then the after effects of the Bush controversy have reverberated throughout the music, country music industry, if not like the music industry at large. So I found an article that interviewed Leslie Fram. Do you know that name that Sounds so familiar at Elliens will know her from 99x back in the day. I think she might actually be on it now.
Yeah, she's back, but she had a.
Stint as senior vice president for music and talent at Country Music Television. When she was interviewed about the chick, she said this incident nearly ended the chick's career, and the aftermath had a major effect not only on them, but many other artists. The term Dixie Chicked became a real thing, and artists, especially female artists, didn't want to make their opinions known due to the fear of being ostracized by conservative fans or radio. So y'all know I'm bringing it back to Taylor Swift.
Okay, well, you already used the term Swift, and don't think I didn't know what you were up to.
All roads lead to T. Swift. So her 2020 documentary, Miss Americana, shows her negotiating with her management and business colleagues, notably including her father, to speak out in the 2018 midterm election. Ultimately, she did. She told Variety, quote, I see how one comment ended such a powerful reign, and it terrified me. These days with social media, people can be so mad about something one day and then forget what they were mad about a couple weeks later. That's fake outrage. But what happened to the Dixie Chicks was real outrageous. I registered it that you're always one comment away from being done being able to make music. She went on to comment on the safety aspect of it all, how dangerous it can be to be the one in the hot seat and have the, quote, wrong opinion. And she said, she actually said that's sort of why she thinks her dad didn't want her to speak out about politics, because he's the one that sees all of the death threats she's already getting just for being her or all of the stalkers that she has. So she didn't want to be on that.
That she didn't.
He didn't want her to be on that side of it. and then I wanted to make a point about Cancel Culture, because I think the Chicks experience was really like a 1.0 version of that it was, like, less Internet and more guerrilla warfare. Like, it's not people just tweeting you. It's like actual death threats or walking up to someone on a plane and threatening to, like, take them down. the refusal to play music and buy tickets. What a weird place.
Is no one learning the lessons?
No one is learning the lessons, Salina.
Carrie Underwood is under fire for singing at the inauguration
Well, I guess that's obvious.
Just, So I think for me, revisiting this whole controversy reminded me of one, the disappointment I sometimes feel in the country music industry. So, as we speak, Carrie, Underwood is under fire because she's going to sing at the inauguration. So she's sort of the opposite of the chicken. where it's, you know, she's gonna sing and essentially in support of Donald Trump. Right. Because of the inauguration. So, progressive fans are mad at her for doing that. And on her side, she says, like, well, this is a historic event. This is part of being an American, and this was an amazing opportunity for me. so I think it's happening right now. The country music industry certainly is not turning against her because she's falling on the side that feels comfortable for them. But I think in general, it just reminds me of this disappointment I feel in the industry. I think there's a lot of pandering that happens in that world, and I think we've talked about that here before. I'm not, like, giving away any state secrets. Like, you could see it happen in music videos, in lyrics, and it is straight up pandering. and I think it was interesting hearing Emily really put a name to that and really call it out for what it was, especially, like, in the early aughts, because it was everywhere. but I think country music is really special, and there's so much amazing storytelling to it and real lifeness to it, and when you make it a political discussion and that if you don't fall on this side of it, you're not part of our world, I think you miss out on that beautiful storytelling. And that just reminded me that, like, oh, my God, it's so hard to support that industry because it is so political. Either way. Either way, it's too political. It's just. Just let it be music. Let's just be inclusive people. You know what I mean?
Yeah.
and then, of course, it always just leaves me with questions like, would it have been the same for a group of men, if they had not been female, would they have experienced the same thing? Oh, well, I can answer that. You didn't have to be rhetorical rhetorical questions?
No.
Would, it have been the same today when controversy is a dime a dozen? The, Carrie Underwood thing. The extent of that is some fans writing on her Instagram post to say, like, how could you do this? This, it's also a different side of the argument. But, where does free speech fit into all of this? And why is it that some people's preferences for their celebrities to be apolitical unless their beliefs coincide, and then it's okay?
Because I think I'm caught up in one. It's, like, all country music acts at the inauguration, right? I think.
I don't know.
I'm pretty sure it is, probably. And I'm just, like, trying to imagine Donald Trump listening to country music.
Oh, that's where you got stuck.
I'm sorry. And patriarchy. So I can be stuck a few places at once. I'm so sorry. I was just, like, sitting here. I'm like, there's no way he listens to country music. Right?
I sure hope so.
I'm not even trying to get political. I'm just, like, looking at him. I'm hearing him, and I'm like, is he, like, windows down in his town car? Like, Rascal flatting it around town? You know, life is a highway. Let's. It's bowls of blood. I think I got all those words wrong, but you know what I'm talking about. It's a spurs, and I'll let it go. You know what I mean?
I do know that song. So that's the Chicks.
That was wonderful. Like, it's sad. I don't know. And I. I almost want to answer your rhetorical question, too, because, like, I don't know. I think that that outrage culture is so much now. I don't. Maybe it does just get dusted away pretty quickly, but I think, I think it would have been pretty. Pretty visceral today, too.
I think it has been for certain celebrities.
Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe I just don't understand Carrie Underwood, but I also feel like the Chicks were bigger than Carrie Underwood back in the day.
It's really hard for me to say that because Carrie Underwood has big. She has tons of singles. She is always on the radio with something new. I, do think the Chicks had a little bit more crossover. Yeah. appeal. They were everywhere.
I, was listening to the Sin Wagon this morning.
Well, there you go. Perfect.
Go fly away.
Nathan picks something old and something new to talk about today
Anyways, Gaslighter, the 2020 album, is really good. It's about Natalie's husband cheating on her. So it's angry, too, which I love.
Yeah. Yeah. She seems like she does angry really well.
She does, you know, but, you know, I love in a woman.
I do, too.
Nothing worse than a mad woman.
There's nothing. Nothing worse. God help. God help you.
God help you.
okay, so for my part, I picked something old and something new, something serious and something funny. Yeah, I'm gonna have to make that fit now. but what I'll end on today, at the very end is something funny. I just want people to know we're not gonna leave you, like, because some of these are a little upsetting, I think. But, I'm gonna start with the more upsetting perfect today. And that is something new and serious. Selection is. Was a hard choice at first because, honestly, you know, we're just at the beginning of the year, so I just tried to look at the most recent that I could. So I looked at 2024. There's a lot of stuff that happened in 2020.
That's what I'm saying about today. There's just celebrity. Like, celebrity controversy is a dime a dozen. It's always out there.
There were a couple of, like, really big things I had not heard of at all. And I consider myself sadly, very plugged into pop culture. but Diddy, of course, brings to mind. Absolutely first. But, like, that's too sad. There was, like, JLo and Ben Affleck divorce.
For some people, it's too sad that.
For some people, it's too sad. And then there's the Drake versus Kendrick Lamar beef.
But I don't know, too dramatic.
I just high drama. But I decided to go with one that we talked about in our last ketchup, extra sugar. That would have been in season six. That was episode one. So if you didn't hear that, you can go back and hear what happened six months ago. It's important.
It's the first chapter to what's happening now.
So here's the thing. I am talking about Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni and that whole saga. I'm gonna do the quickest of recaps because in case you're not tuned in to what's going on, which to me would be. I don't know how, but let's just say you're not okay. What we talked about then was all happening around the premiere of their movie. It ends with us. This would have been back in late summer, and the story swirling then were in a quite different place. So there was all this weirdness around the way the marketing was Done blowback over it and its lack of sensitivity around domestic violence. How inappropriate. Its eventizing came off to audiences because Deadpool had also come out around the same time. And, then there's the Blake Lively of it all. She really got the most blowback. The Internet had just dogpiled on her in a way that I hadn't really seen. Well, since the last time we decided to tear a woman limb from limb.
Taylor Swift, pre reputation.
she has gotten more than one turn on that chopping block. I'm not here to rehash all of that. What I wanted to talk about is everything that's happened since December. So I pulled a timeline from Forbes just so we can get on the same page.
Let's do it. Because I told you earlier, I'm so confused about what's happening. Okay, so buckle up.
Buckle up.
That's right.
Right. and then also, just stop me if you want to discuss any of them.
Stop. I'm just kidding. Just testing, Just testing.
So on December 20, Lively filed a complaint claiming Baldoni invaded her privacy by, quote, entering her makeup trailer uninvited while she was undressed, pressured her to lose weight four months after giving birth, and coordinated a PR campaign with a crisis firm designed to destroy Ms. Lively's reputation. So this isn't in the timeline, but for context and color, there was some pretty damaging, text messages that were leaked between Baldoni, his publicist, whose name is Jennifer Abel, and his crisis PR manager, Melissa Nathan. So, real quick on Nathan. Her firm's majority stakeholder is a company run by entertainment industry executive Scooter Braun. She also represented Johnny Depp in his defamation case against Amber Heard, who, for the record, is the last woman I recall being dragged as badly as Blake Lively on social media. Funny that that's the case. Huh? So let's just say Baldoni had a series of very bad days after that December 20th date. He was dropped by his talent agency, then, Vital Voices, which is a global nonprofit that. That focuses on empowering women. They rescinded his Voices of Solidarity award from earlier in December. This is an award that celebrates, quote, remarkable men who have shown courage and compassion in advocating on behalf behalf of women and girls. That same day, his co host pulled out of their podcast about masculinity called Man Enough, and his ex publicist sued him over an alleged conspiracy to discredit her and steal her clients. This person is his current publicist, old boss. So if you're confused, there's a great reason. It's confusing.
But anyways, I missed that piece of it all.
Lively filed a lawsuit against Baldoni for allegedly retaliating against her
Okay. But anyway, bad series of days for him.
Sounds rough stuff.
Yeah. So then on New Year's Eve, the lawsuits just started flying. Okay. Lively filed a lawsuit against Baldoni, his publicist, Wayfarer Studios and others for quote, retaliating against her for reporting sexual harassment and workplace safety concerns. Then he turns rounds and files a 250 million dollar libel lawsuit against the New York Times for their reporting on Lively's allegations, accusing the outlet of having coward to the wants and whims of, of two powerful and untouchable Hollywood elites, referring to Lively and Ryan Reynolds. And then within days, Baldoni's camp released text messages to air his side of things. So that as his lawyer said, people could have have them and see the truth and determine the truth for themselves. Then this is just a couple of days ago or January 16th. Because when you hear this, it'll be more than a couple days ago. but Baldonian Wayfarer Studio sued Lively and Reynolds for at least 400 million for damages. According to AP, the suit alleges that Lively and Reynolds quote, hijacked the production and marketing of the movie and manipulated media to smear Baldoni and others on the production with false allegations of sexual and other harassment. The suit also counters a lot of Lively's claims. So I'm paraphrasing, but he was welcomed around for breastfeeding. He only asked how much he weighed so that he could work with his personal trainer to make sure he could safely lift her bad back and all that kind of thing. So at this point we're just watching their teams respond publicly to one another. It's pretty ugly.
Which is where the good stuff happens.
Yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't think there will be any winners here. I don't know. I'm very curious to see what happens. Like, I think at some point I'm concerned everyone gets so toxic that people just. But we'll see because at the end of the day, most of these people, especially when it's the people who are going to be making movies or other creative assets, if you're a threat to their money. Then you're a threat to them.
Yeah.
And they'll drop you.
They don't want you to be part of a negative story.
Right.
The New York Times article about Blake Lively was pretty bad
So what I'd really like to talk about is the New York Times article. This was very interesting to me. So this is the one that Baldoni is suing over that was published the day after Lively filed her Initial complaint. So it was written by Mike McIntyre, Julie Tate, and Megan Tuohy, as in Megan Tuohy, who, along with Jody Kanter, published the report that exposed sexual abuse allegations against Harvey Weinstein. Look at him coming up. Just left and right here.
All roads lead to Harvey.
So weird we're talking about scandals. in this case, the article exposed what they called, quote, an additional playbook for waging a, largely undetectable smear campaign in the digital era. The report highlighted text messages subpoenaed by Lively and what's there is pretty bad. I had talked about this a little a, couple minutes ago, but I thought I would pull out a couple of examples. So the timing of the messages as well showed that what took place was pre planned. Going back as early as May. a publicist message about Baldoni, quote, he wants to feel like she can be buried. To which Melissa Nathan responded, you know, we can bury anyone.
Well, now, I didn't say I wanted her buried. I just want a plan for it. That's what he said.
Messages also show that maybe he wants you as his PR person. Messages also show that they leveraged blowback around the official promotional plan. So this is like, where the cast is being instructed to focus on uplifting aspects of the movie and like the florals and everything. So instead Baldoni hair products. That's right. Instead, Baldoni highlighted domestic violence survivors in his interviews and on social media. So they're seeing the contrast between these two things. Now, the way I'm reading that is not that they specifically, like, really ran, her over, her and others over in terms of, like, taking, like, setting that emotion to do that. But once they saw how that blew up in their faces, they took that opportunity to get Baldoni out there and doing something that was a little bit more palatable to, moviegoers and just the public at large who were eating this up. or my personal favorite. So Ms. Nathan wrote to Ms. Abel and socials are really, really ramping up in his favor. She must be furious. It's actually sad because it just shows you have how much people really want to hate on women. And I'm like, but you're a part of it.
Worst kind, Worst kind of woman.
So much like the last time we talked about this, it feels to me like an exercise in communications. And I am just dying to run some questions by you to see where your head is in all of this. So what is something this heinous mean for PR and who's going to resuscitate it? Or are we just, like, okay with this?
We're okay with it. We're okay with it. Like, I think I happened to see an interview with, Liza Minnelli about Judy Garland. The interview was from the 70s, but at that point, Judy Garland was dead. And so Liza was talking about her mom. And the interviewer asked some question about, you know, your mom, her, attitude toward life or something. And the point was, Liza said, what you guys know about my mom is not my mom. And you don't know the person that she really was. She put forward an image of herself that she thought people wanted to see. And that's what you saw, and that's what, you know, that dates back to Judy Garland's time. We've never actually known celebrities, and we're okay with it. We know there's spin involved. That's true of politics, too. We know there's spin involved, and we've just made ourselves okay with it. What I think is interesting is how quick and we talked about this, when we talked about this over the summer or at the end of the summer, is how quick people are to judge one way or the other when they know they're being manipulated. So very quickly, people are like, oh, the evidence is there.
Do you really think a lot of people know they're being manipulated?
Judging from the comments on that New York Times article and understanding that is a very small sample size, I think there is a large number of people that accept they don't know the whole story, and they just still make generalizations with the facts that they know. I do believe that.
Yeah, I agree with that. I think sometimes in thinking about political conversations, too, like, or just the way that I see people approach media, there is a certain unsaviness with it.
so I agree with that. I do think one thing that came out in the New York Times article, article, because I've read it, is, the lengths to which the smear campaign went and the tactics they use. So the reporters take you up to the line, talking about things like bots and talking about things like, deploying these, like, social media people to reshare things. So they talk about that one, interviewer who reposted her. Yeah, they talk about that. And they say this was not the first time she aligned herself with either Abel or Nathan. I can't remember which one, but whichever.
One of them, because it was, She came out on the side of Depp.
Yes, exactly. Exactly. And in this instance, she portrayed Blake in a really bad light. Now, the flip of that is someone can't invent you saying something or can't invent your affect or your attitude in an interview.
That's right.
Like they can't make that up.
And it wasn't a great interview.
It was not a great interview. Now what could have happened is it could have gone off into the ether and no one would have known. But because he had this high powered team that was doing these, this very creepy Internet sleuthing that I don't think a lot of people know how because I didn't realize like that I wouldn't have put. Been able to articulate that happens. I could make guesses that they call certain people. It's just like old school newspapers you call people implant stories. Sometimes that happens. I expect that. but yeah, I think that the, the lengths to which this happens, I don't think people realize. But I definitely think people generally speaking know they're not getting the whole story. I just don't think they care.
Well, and they probably just go ahead and. And I have to watch this in myself. I'm like, oh, you're screwing with a woman. Of course I believe this side, you know, and reinforcing, you know, you sort of gravitate towards the things that reinforce your beliefs. That's human nature.
This brings me back to Squidgy Gate. Um, it's fascinating
this, I will just go ahead and say too that this really, brings me back to Squidgy Gate. All roads, but just this. That was good. it's this idea that these PR machines are so big that you just. I mean it's fascinating, but it's not probably the smartest idea to put a hard line in the sand. Also, like, why should we. Yeah, this is not necessary. It's not necessarily our problem.
What does something this sinister say about Hollywood
Which sort of leads me to my next question which is like what does something this sinister say about Hollywood?
The same thing we know about Hollywood, Holly.
Weird.
You mean? It's a nightmare. It's an absolute nightmare. I mean I think these stories have been coming out in dribs and drabs over the years and they're gaining steam. I think the difference between now and Judy Garland days, for instance, it was much more one way.
Sorry, I was thinking, my first reaction was that they just gave you the drugs era.
I think they still do, honestly.
Just a different route.
But it was much more one way communication. So the, the studios and the executives would put out the communications on behalf of the stars. There was a lot of like loaning stars out to other studios. There was a narrative that followed all of these stars.
The studios were stronger Then, yes, way stronger.
And they controlled the communication. Now the bag is in the hand of the celebrity, and we're facing an environment in which it's much more intrusive. You don't have. So Squidgy Gate is a great example in the quote, unquote, modern era. You don't have the privacy you used to have. I think the, channels are so much more. So it's. It's ramping up a lot, but I don't think it tells us anything new that we didn't already know about Hollywood.
Right, Okay, I see. I knew you'd have some insight.
I have so many thoughts.
And then what does this say that it was two women orchestrating this in the background?
I think it's. It's bearing out this thing that I always struggle to articulate, but I think it's women on women crime that's more dangerous than men on women crime. M. In circumstances like this, I'm not talking about real crime and assaults and things like that, but it's. We talk about the patriarchy sort of jokingly these days. We're like, oh, it's the patriarchy. Women are fueling a lot of this, but not joking. But, like, it's. It's not that simple. Women are complicit in the patriarchy in a lot of instances, if it benefits them.
Absolutely.
And so I. Yeah, I was reading some of the text messages between these two women, and I was thinking, God, at what point have you completely sold your soul and you can't find a way back? So young. I saw the pictures. They're so young and adorable.
Early 30s.
Yes.
If that's, like, what is happening?
And so that thought we were supposed.
To be getting better.
It led me to this question of what does feminism look like for a younger generation
It led me to this question of what does feminism look like for a younger generation? And how are young women perceiving this?
And are we. Are we in another backlash period? You know, because it does. You know, there's the ebbs and flows and, you know, obviously, I shouldn't say obviously, but there's been several waves of feminism at this point. And like, to your point early, what does feminism look like for different people? Might be. What does it mean, all of these different things? And so, because it's weird that they.
Would choose to engage. It's a money thing, for sure. They're getting paid. Like, there were quotes, cost, quotes either in the New York Times article or in another article I was reading actual cost quotes of what various levels of smear campaign are going to cost you. Let's just say These women were making good money to be terrible people. and so, like, the m. The money is there, but, like, do they just not realize these are real people, that they're hurting and that there are ripple effects?
I didn't write this quote down, but there was one where she. Basically, it was like, you could almost hear, like, the. Not even a. Like, an anxious laughter where it was like, And I don't even agree with him, right? Like, what are we doing? And then I guess, like, money, man.
It's money. It's power. It's who you work for. It is this perception that everyone's doing it, so let's just do it better. And I think my thesis on this Blake Lively, Justin Balding Baldoni thing is it's a battle of the pr. I'm not sure, like you said earlier, there are definitely no winners in this, but I also don't think there's anyone that's flat out wrong or flat out right. I think there are shades of wrong in all of it. And it's just. Who played the game the best?
Yeah. Yeah. I don't. It's really nuts. how are we supposed to believe anything?
You're not.
Okay. And notice the importance of this. The sexual harassment allegations alone are awful. And tell me not nearly enough has changed since. Me too.
I want to understand this sexual harassment piece a little bit more
Thoughts?
I'm super curious about. and curious in a. I don't care if I never know the answers because it's not really my thing to know. But since it's out there, since we're talking about it, I want to understand this sexual harassment piece a little bit more, because one side of the story is she was breastfeeding and said, just come on in. I'm breastfeeding. It's fine. Let's just talk about it. Okay. That's one side of the story. The other side of the story is either that made them. Them being Justin Baldoni and this business partner that he had in Wayfair, feel comfortable to just barge in anytime they wanted, and that put her in an uncomfortable situation. Or, that that happened one time. She was uncomfortable that he did that. He wasn't supposed to do it. She was uncomfortable with it. And so they entered this, negotiation where this became that list of 17 requirements that she had. Like any HR complaint, it was managed, done, and dusted. They put everything in place to safeguard her. And then we moved forward. If that's the version of events that actually happened. 1. It's never okay for a person to be sexually harassed. That's never okay. But also, this is the PR of it all. It was done and dusted like an HR complaint. It was managed, it was handled. If you're that deeply uncomfortable with it, walk away from the movie. Otherwise you have to accept that the process took place. And it. She said she was happy after that. So I want to understand the sexual harassment piece more because I do think sexual harassment is a term that gets thrown around sometimes in PR discussions because you hear sexual harassment and immediately vilify someone, whether it's actually what happened or not.
Well, there was also the piece about. I can see how there could be potential confusion there. And I've heard tons. So. Funny how people, like, piece this stuff apart. The situation's not funny. But, like, there was talk about, well, you know, some women consider pumping different than breastfeeding. And like, there was. So people were parsing through all of that. And then, But I guess, like, it's the same partner person, I think, and I want to be very careful about that. But what's alleged, is that he showed either naked pictures of his wife or video some kind of sexual content to her. Yeah, I mean, that's definitely, definitely crossing a line. but yeah, I hear you on the done. And Dustin, what I think the only thing that, like. And, I do understand just process wise where you're coming from, and maybe this is just the stubborn person in me, but to think about, like, her having to walk away when it's like a passion project for her is kind of crappy. If she's the one that had to request the things in the first place because she didn't feel, quote, unquote, safe or whatever the case is for. From my perspective, I just feel like, like, this is another case where everyone uses it similar to what you're talking about with the chicks. in country music. Everyone uses it as an opportunity to wear ribbons and do all this, like, you know, grandstanding, but not actually change anything, you know. And I mean, there have been changes. I could go and I could pull together a list right now of all the things that have changed. I think what this says to me is that the way that things are happening and the way that women might be, experiencing things now is like, at a more sinister level. You know, it's like, the, blatant stuff isn't working anymore, but we still have all this undercurrent of things that has to be. That would have to be addressed.
So, yeah, I don't know. It's complicated. It's really complicated.
I don't know. I work with all women. What do I know? And I always say, don't have that problem. It's weird. I don't know. Ah, yeah, it's. It's complicated. I haven't.
I don't. I still don't know which way because I'm ultimately just not going to fall either way on any of this.
I feel for Blake Lively. If these things happened the way she perceived them
I feel for Blake Lively. If these. If these things happened the way she perceived them, I hate that for her. Like, that's terrible. I hate that her character is being assassinated because of it. I don't think it changes some of the interviews I've seen, the way she talks to people, the way she talks about herself. I do think that. I understand she and Sony had agreed on a marketing plan that was to, like, make that movie all frills and whatever, but I think there was an opportunity to take a stand there that maybe she didn't. It also sounds like he's maybe not the person he portrayed himself to be. I don't know what his motivations are. I don't know if he really is an advocate for women or if he's really sneaky and. And terrible. What I think started. I think it's just bad PR management. I think it started as a, used to working in a club of boys, so showing around things like videos of your wife or whatever, and then realizing, oh, we weren't supposed to do that, and then trying to fix that. And then.
But it was my wife who was naked. I didn't even pull any body parts.
It was fine. and trying to fix that from, like, the HR perspective. And. And I'm sure Justin, the whole time they were making this movie, he's remembering that that conversation was happening, ironically, around a movie about domestic violence that is supposed to have feminist themes. And I'm sure the entire time he was filming this movie, he was thinking about what his PR strategy was going to be if that ever came out.
I think he thinks he's a very good guy.
Yes.
I don't. I don't. I'm like you. What do I know? I don't know anything. that's why I'm sitting here talking about this. What a better person to do that. But I truly think. Think that he considers himself to be someone who wants to empower women. I believe that. And I think it's also possible. And I won't even say in his circumstance, in any one circumstance, you may want to be something. But then there are actions that are so built into Us that you don't even realize that it's happening, and you don't even realize that you're doing it. I wonder if he really thought he had hit all of the right marks and then he got spooked. I know. I've read a couple of articles where, like, when, like, I guess Ryan Reynolds stopped following on Instagram, like, he saw some of these things, and then he went for the nuclear option because he got scared of his own reputation. Because I think most people were like, justin who? Yeah, you know, because unless you watch Jane the Virgin or whatever, like, you know, you know who Blake Lively is, and you know who Ryan Reynolds is. And I. I think there probably was some reputational fear there. and, and then I'm sure it just got more and more unraveled and complicated from there. there are. There's no all.
Right?
There's no none.
Right?
And. Or everything and nothing and all. We know that those don't exist. And so I do agree, like, it doesn't matter. Some of those interviews don't look great. she needed a good handler back then to be like, hey, I know these suck. It's a pressed junket, but you gotta suck it up, you know? And. And not everyone's very good at those. some people are great at them.
But most people, Justin Baldoni did fine.
He really cares.
He just, like, knocked it out of the park. I think it's unfortunate to have these really nuanced conversations built on the ego of celebrity, because by default, celebrities want to be like. And celebrities are going to fight tooth and nail to be like. Except the, stakes are so much higher for them.
Yeah, no stakes over here.
Their entire livelihood is built on how people perceive them. And so you are going to have these people fight tooth and nail, and that's going to lead to really sketchy pr, marketing, legal discussions. His entire response to her lawsuit. His lawsuit reads, to me like, oh, no, that's not what happened. No, no, no. She says, I sexually harassed her. No, it was one video. Like, it reads like, I love breastfeeding. I wish I had taken some notes from reading, some of the main parts of his response, because they were very much like, the one about being locked down in the basement of some theater while she and her friends were allowed to walk the red, red carpet. I was like, what does that even matter? What does that even. I don't understand what point you're making. So that poor. I feel bad for all of them, honestly. It's not bad enough to really care. But it's only 35 minutes worth.
That's it. Plus chick's time.
well, we're at 54 minutes, so that counted the chick's time.
What does this mean for other things in media? You don't have to answer
But what does this mean for other things? And this is rhetorical. You don't necessarily have to answer this, but. But, you know, I mean, I. Presidential elections and tactics that they're using to access the most powerful position on earth. I mean, I think just as a consumer, we know this stuff, though. Oh, for sure we know it. But, like, for some reason, it, like, brought it back up for me again. I was like, oh, my God. I mean, like, what are we even doing? What are we doing?
I mean, we know this stuff's happening. I think that this is leading to that conversation about being a good media consumer. But I think the court of public opinion is as old as time. I think it predates justice. Like a formal justice system. People would come to their own conclusions.
We would have just sent them out with some weapons and let them kill each other.
We would have had one accusation of a witch, and we would have hung her like these are.
Or put stones on her ankles, whichever.
Honestly, the court of public opinion has always been a thing. We're just becoming more advanced in the way we negotiate it and navigate. Navigate it.
Don't worry. If Blake Lively drowns, we'll know she's innocent.
That's all you need to know.
And that's what it feels like to be a woman. okay, so I think we've, churned all the juice out of that. What do you have next for us in scandals?
People accuse Paula Dean of using racial slurs on her Food Network show
My next one was Paula Dean. I want to talk about Paula Dean. Something easy and Latin breezy. So I do think this one's going to be briefer than my chicks and certainly, briefer than all my thoughts on the Justin Baldoni and places livey thing that I claim not to care about at all.
I don't even care. Let's talk about it.
I just have so many opinions. So I wanted to bring up that one time people accused.
It's like, also all women. Don't worry, guys. I'm gonna bring in a man.
People accuse Paula Dean, the nation's resident butter loving, home cooking, food network darling, of using racial slurs. So for those who aren't familiar, Paula was born in Albany, Georgia. That's how we say it. Albany. in the early 90s, after her marriage dissolved, Paula found herself as a single mom in Savannah, Georgia. She needed cash and she needed it fast. So she fell Back on what she knew and loved, which was cooking. She opened a restaurant in the Best Western in Savannah before opening lady and Sons, a standalone restaurant, in 1996. By 2002, she had fallen into favor with Food Network and awarded her signature cooking show, Paula's Home Cookin. Over time, she would earn. I can't say her name without saying Paula, because that's how she says it. and it's just. It's in the back of my brain. Over time, she would open more restaurants. She had a deal with Harrah's Casinos, wherein she opened buffets at four casinos throughout the Southeast. She would have two more Food Network programs, and she released cookbooks. She threw out first pitch at baseball games. just all the things she was in all the places. But Paula's party came to a close on June 21, 2013, when Food Network announced they would not renew her contract. They did so because that same month, Paula was sued by Lisa Jackson for racial and sexual discrimination. Jackson alleged Dean made derogatory remarks about African Americans. Ultimately, the racial part of the suit was dropped since the judge ruled that Jackson, who was white, wasn't in a position to sue over what she claimed was poor treatment of black employees. I think there's stuff to parse apart there. but I'm not going to do that today. But. But just let that wash over you. Somehow that feels injust. I can't put my finger on it.
Got it.
However, the sexual discrimination claim stood, and just a few weeks later, the trial abruptly ended. It's never been publicly confirmed, but it seems like they reached some sort of settlement agreement. but it was Paula's own. Paula's own deposition at the trial that got folks a, talking. So when she was interviewed, she acknowledged that, of course, she had used the N word at times. She gave a very specific example of a time she spoke with her husband about an attempted bank robbery in which she was a victim. She used the word to describe the suspect because in her words, quote, I didn't feel real favorable toward him. When asked if she had used the word since then, she said, I'm sure I have, but it's been a very long time. Maybe in repeating something that was said to me, probably a conversation between blacks, I don't. I don't know, but that's just a, not a word that we use. As time has gone on, things have changed since. Since the sixties in the South. So her Wikipedia page notes that in this period of time, she lost contracts with Food Network, Smithfield Foods Walmart, Target, QVC, Caesars Entertainment, JCPenney, Sears, and Kmart, and her book publisher. despite all of that, several came to Paula's like, not defense, but maybe side a little bit. So, for example, the patron saint of the patron saint of the south, former US President Jimmy Carter, rest in peace, urged that Dean be forgiven, stating, I think she's been punished, perhaps overly severely, for her honesty in admitting it and for the use of the word in the distant past. She's apologized profusely. Michael Twitty, a writer, culinary historian and educator who, by the way, is black, Jewish and gay, wrote a really powerful open letter to Paula, which I'll link to in our show Notes. He argued in the piece that everyone is a little racist. So hearing that she used the N word wasn't a surprise to him. He didn't clutch his pearls. He didn't turn away. But it added fuel to his bigger concern about Paula, the appropriation and overlooking of black culinary history. He wrote two things that I thought were really powerful. if I want to be furious about something racial, well, America, get real. We've had a good 12 years of really, really rich material that the national media has set aside to talk about. Paula Deen. No, the bigger issue, as he writes, is this. I want you to understand that I'm probably more angry about the cloud of smoke this fiasco has created for other issues surrounding race and this and Southern food to be real. You using the N word a few times in the past does nothing to destroy my world. It may make me sigh for a few minutes in resentment and resignation, but I'm not shocked or wounded. No victim here. Systemic racism in the world of Southern food and public discourse, not your past epithets are what really piss me off. There's so much press and so much activity around Southern food, and yet the diversity of people of color engaged in this art form and telling and teaching its history and giving it a future are, often passed up or disregarded. Gentrification in our cities, the lack of attention to Southern food desserts often inhabited by the non elites that aren't spoken about, the ignorance and ignoring of voices beyond a few token black cooks, chefs, or being called on to speak to our issues as an afterthought is what gets me mad. In the world of Southern food, we are lacking a diversity of voices and what. And that does not just mean black people or black perspectives. We are surrounded by culinary injustice. Where some Southerners take credit for things that enslaved Africans and their descendants played key roles in innovating Barbecue in my lifetime may go the way of the blues and the banjo, a, relic of our culture that wisps away. That tragedy, rooted in the unwillingness to give African American barbecue masters and other cooks an equal chance at the platform, is far more galling than you saying the N word in childhood ignorance or emotional rage or social whimsy. He ended the letter, which went viral, by inviting Paula to come, quote, bake bread and break bread with him and his colleagues at a meal of reconciliation that they were hoping hosting at a former plantation. Paula never responded, but he got some interest for a book deal out of the whole situation because he went viral with it all. for her part, after the controversy, Paula did talk to Matt Lauer on the Today show. Matt Lauer controversy to say that she doesn't recognize the old her and all the, like, normal, I'm a changed woman stuff. Then two years later, a minor scandal broke again when she and her sister son dressed as Lucy and Ricky, Lucille Ball and Ricky Arnaz. And in a photo, her son appeared to be wearing blackface. So lesson learned. I don't know. Today she pops up here and there, and from time to time, like, she was recently announced as a master chef guest judge, but she never really regained her influence.
Again, a very powerful letter. I want to start by saying that was.
It took me a long time to read it and really sit with. With all the points that were being made. And I think I'm not in the culinary world, so some of it went over my head. but I think the points were made.
But we've talked about some of that here, and you've brought some of that knowledge here where we've talked about the history of enslaved people and its connection to food in the South. And I mean, honestly, because some of the segments that you've done, and I was woefully ignorant and all of that, some of it's because, as I have said on here before, and this has changed over time, I didn't really like Southern food, so I wasn't gonna go.
I think it was a silly move for her to not take him up on offer
It's not very often that I go, go study. Honestly, how many people go and study up on the history of food? Not a lot of people. That's right. But not a lot of people do. but, you know, I think. I think, I think I'd like to go spend some time with that letter. and I think it was a really silly move for her to not take him up on that offer.
That would it feel. Talking about pr. That feels like it would have Been the easy move.
PR move. But also, like, just sounds like a good time. This is someone who. And I think that's what. It's always this gaslighting stuff. Like, look over here. And he's like raising all these actually.
Right.
And I'm not saying that doing that is okay. I'm saying that, let's go, like, make real changes. Weird that I'm hungry. So that's.
That one.
She was everywhere for a little while. And I ate. I think I ate at one of her buffets in cherry Cherokee. And this good food. It's got the good banana pudding.
I mean, look, I've made a lot of her recipes. You know, she likes butter and so do I. She also, incidentally, sounds.
And I do think there's a little.
Is almost exactly the same.
There's a little something there that makes this. This particular issue hard because there's some. It triggers something in your childhood. It triggers. She reminded a lot of us of our grandmothers. And he might have. Michael may have said a couple of things, things like that in his letter about the. The Persona of her and just who she was. It felt comfortable and it felt like something you knew. So it triggers something different in your head where this all or nothing perception where you're like, now I have to hate her.
It. I mean, look, guys, it's mine. It's mind boggling. Living in the South.
It's crazy.
It's my.
It's back and forth all the time.
Come on down. You'll see.
It's a difficult identity.
The nicest person. And then they say something that just blows your mind. Although maybe that's just humanity.
Yeah.
And my location is the South.
They just do it with an accent here.
That's right. So just sometimes you can't understand what they're saying is all. Okay, let's laugh at least a little, please. Or we'll at least smile. I don't know. I'll make you laugh, but here we go.
Matthew McConaughey was arrested in 1999 for playing bongos naked
So Matthew McConaughey. Yeah. Gotcha. Scene.
Lord have mercy.
He was arrested way back in 1999 for, I want to say, playing the bongos very loudly whilst very high and very naked.
That sounds right. Yeah.
Yeah. Okay. And that's not far off. That was what he was doing when police officers.
That's not far off. In fact, it's true.
It's exactly what he was doing. When police arrived at his house to respond to a noise complaint, there he was. Was just him, his bongos, and, also his other bongos.
So, of course.
Oh, Lord. According to reports, he was arrested and charged with resisting transportation. Translation, he fought back as the police put him in their patrol car.
Well, he was nudie and their seats are leather. He was afraid he'd stick. And it was he in Texas? Well, dead heat of summer.
So the reason I chose this one, other than just. Just generally thinking he's so weird and so fantastic, is because of his retelling of the story in 2020. I'm just gonna read an abbreviated account because I think that's how it's best told. Let's McConaughey this.
Sorry.
So. So, after a day of partying, McConaughey decided to wind down and got naked. Opening the window to access the smell of jasmine from his garden, he began smoking weed and put on the beautiful African melodic beats of Henry Daikon playing along with music on bongo drums. Sorry, guys, I'm not familiar with Henry, so if I didn't get his last name correct, I really apologize. what I. And this is him speaking. What I didn't know was that while I was being away in my bliss, two Austin policemen also thought it was time to barge into my house unannounced, wrestle me to the ground with nightsticks, handcuff me, and pin melt to the floor. Picture, picture, picture. Sorry, it's magazine article.
Wait, pictures of him?
Yeah, not that night. Okay, calm down. he said one officer tried to wrap a blanket around his waist, but he resisted saying, I'm not putting blank on my naked ass as proof I was minding my own business. He then decided, as he was let out, still naked and reluctant to submit to the inevitable inevitability of my predicament, to do a bit of parkour by running up a wall and backflip over one of the cops. See, my thinking was that in mid flight, while upside down in the air, I would assume a pike position m and then slide my cuffed wrists under my butt, over my legs, and then stick the landing with my fettered hands in front of me. McConaughey said he believed that by, quote, pulling off such an extraordinary Houdini like stunt, the officers would be so impressed, they would abrogate the arrest and set me free. The stunt, predictably, did not come to fruition and McConaughey was brought in. He declined something to cover up his body twice, saying it was proof of his innocence, but finally relented and put on pants when a 6 foot 6 inch Gelbird built like a Brit a brick shithouse said, ah, trust me, you do want to put these on? The charges ended up being quickly dropped, except for a 50 fine. McConaughey had to pay for the noise. He decided to exit out the front door to waiting reporters rather than sneak out telling them, I don't want to rent a place there. But it was a nice day for a night. I think I read somewhere that one of the police officers was later fired. not for that, but for some.
Something else, something different.
Yeah. So I think one of them, like, got real, like, oh, Mr. Hollywood and all this. When they came into his house.
Yeah.
And so, he just, like, freaked out on them.
I'm trying so hard to remember what movie or TV show it is. I think I want to say. Oh, you know what? I think it's, 20, ah, 1 Jump Street. The movie. the scene where they take the drugs and they go into the different modes, like, whatever they are, and they just go through these different phases of the drugs. And I am imagining him in the phase where it's, like, kickassery, but really they're just rolling around on the floor. That's how we envision that parkour situation going on. Like, if the cops had been wearing a body cam, it was really just Matthew McConaughey running into a wall and falling on the ground.
I bet you it was pure bliss to hear him tell that story. I'm really so sorry y'all had to hear me tell it instead. and I wish that I could do a McConaughey accent. I can't. but also, you know, I think he was actually at a Longhorns game earlier. You know, he's a huge supporter for them. we actually went to the Peach bowl, and they were playing, and my.
He was there.
No.
Oh, I thought he was.
No. He decided not to go, I think. I can't remember what the reason was, but he. What a shame. Somebody with us, like, looked up and he had, like, tweeted about it.
Oh.
And we were like, dang it. Half the reason I'm here.
Sure.
The other reason is food. Sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I can't remember. Did his career take a hit after that?
Like, maybe for, like, a second for a beat, but not.
Chris: I love Kanye West. I do love him. He's a unique guy. He brings the people together
But I mean, not really. I mean, 99. Like, he was already famous, but I don't think that he's quite MC yet.
Okay.
not, like, the way he's known today. I think that was when people got a snapshot that, like, this guy's kind of interesting.
Wacky.
Yeah, I like it.
He smokes a lot.
I like it. I might. Maybe I'll play, some bongos one day.
Flip there. Not to bring us down because you brought us all the way up, but flip the script. That's a woman, and imagine how that plays out.
Well, I'm not famous, so.
No, I just mean imagine a woman doing that.
Oh, I gotcha. I was like, I think I'm safe. Yeah.
No, imagine woman doing that and what that would do for her.
Probably not the same. I, don't know. She tries the parkour.
But he's also. He's kind of. He's a unique guy. He's just always been a little bit unique. I do love him. I can't help myself.
It's. It's hard not. You can't. He brings the people together. He's like Dolly Parton.
Well, it's because he just bongos with his bong in his ding dong. It's just like. What do you don't like about that?
I just love that he was like, you know, I just opened the windows to smell the jasmine. I'm like, sure.
And you know it's true. I think that's the worst part.
Yes. Well, I think that's what makes it endearing, is that, you know, he means that he's, like, not BSing around. And the funny thing is, is, like, when you're reading that, you can tell how smart he is just because of some of the words that he uses are like. They're really like.
You know, you had to look some of them up.
no, I understood it through context, and I'm lazy.
Georgia public schools.
But I know my Civil War history.
Some version of it.
What do you mean, the war of Northern Aggression? Well, the good news is I didn't fall for that. So there you go. okay, so, like, celebrities, they're just like us. They're like, God help us. God help us all. You know the drill. DM us, message us, or find us all over the socials and be nice there because we're not playing anymore. And that's this week's extra sugar.
Comments