Designing Women S7 E7 Extra Sugar - ST&TV Book Club Part Deux: Dixie Carter's Book

This “Extra Sugar” officially calls to order the Sweet Tea & TV Book Club! Grab your copy of “Trying to Get to Heaven: Opinions of a Tennessee Talker” by the one and only Dixie Carter and settle in for a gab-fest. This episode turned out longer than normal, but it turns out these two talkers - one a Georgia Talker and one a South Carolina Talker - also had a lot of opinions. 

Here are a couple other things we thought you might be interested in:

• If you want to revisit, here’s our last edition of Sweet Tea & TV Book Club: Delta Style.

• If you want to grab a copy of Dixie’s book, it’s available on ThriftBooks.com, the Dixie Carter Performing Arts & Enrichment Center, and good ole Amazon. 

• Dixie Carter’s Unbelievable Workout Video on "Ellen" (Season 7) (skip to 35 seconds) 

Come on y’all, let’s get into it! 

Or listen on Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music.

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Transcript

Hi, Salina.

Hey, Nikki.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to this week's Extra Sugar. So we've got an extra sweet treat for everyone this week. Not quite diabetes, like our para Spectacular bit a few weeks ago, Salina, but more like a sensible portion of cotton candy.

Sugar free.

Yes, yes. Keep it. That's true. With a side of yoga.

Salina recommends Dixie Carter's 1996 memoir Opinions of a Tennessee Talker

that means it's time for book club again. So folks may remember that our last book club was Extra sugar for Season 6, Episode 3, where we talked about Delta Style, Delta Burke's part memoir, part beauty guide. so we wanted to come back for a second edition of Book club, but this time we're talking about trying to get to heaven. Opinions of a Tennessee Talker, which is Dixie Carter's 1996 part memoir, part guide to life. so I got my copy again@thriftbooks.com, but, I also found that Dixie Carter Performing Arts and Enrichment center may have a limited stock available for order. And where did you say you ordered yours from?

Maybe m. It was Goodreads. I don't know. What I was actually going to say is I have two copies, so if anybody needs one and they live in.

Walking distance to me, I love the specification. Or throwing distance, whatever.

You can have my second, copy. I was just telling Nikki that when we moved, I lost my copy because it was by my bed and I boxed it up with all the books by my bed and couldn't find it and had to get it read in time for this segment. So, anyways, you could, if you live near me, and I'm not going to say here where it is, good luck figuring it out.

Just walk around yelling, Salina, Dixie Carter book. Well, I was.

I'll walk it to you.

I was telling Salina that I ordered, like I said, mine from Thrift Books, and it came m with two family photos. And on the back it's like a, I guess a grandmother and a little toddler. Like maybe two, maybe three. And it says Nani and Will. So if Will is listening and. Or Nani and they want these photos back, they look like maybe mid to late 90s.

Hm.

They're pretty dated at this point. So, Will, if you want your photos, I got them.

Nikki will walk them to you.

Oh, I'll come to you. As long as I know where you live or can figure it out. So, anyway, get a copy if you.

Want to follow along, but I think Nani's Italian. Will she make some good pound cake?

I don't know. I built.

That's Italian for grandma, isn't it?

Noni maybe I had built an entirely different narrative in my head that she was like an old fashioned Southern grandma. Because like the picture looks like maybe a colonial style home with a big American flag in the background.

It's very. Will couldn't say nanny and so or Nana and so this is how that name came about and stuff.

Maybe these photos are from the 80s. He is wearing kind of 80s kids clothes. He's wearing like a little John. John, like a little again, traditional southern little boy outfit and some matching shoes with possibly ruffled socks. I am so sorry, Will. this is a cute little outfit. I just don't know the ruffled socks go today. Anyway, I got their photos and I'm feeling some sort of way about it.

I've got extra books. You've got extra. This is just, this is just the.

Book that keeps on giving, you know, Keeps on giving. So the.

Actress singer Dixie Carter releases autobiography titled Opinions of a Tennessee Talker

For the book itself, I wanted to read a little bit of the description on the back of the book because I feel like that's. I don't know a better summary that I could come up with. So it says. Known to millions as Julia Sugarbaker of Designing Women, Dixie Carter is one of Hollywood's best known and best loved Southern ladies. Her first book is a personal report on the possibility of happiness and an ode to beauty. Inside and out, family and the spirit. it also says it's. And this is very true. Seasoned with Dixie's memories of growing up in Tennessee, her adventures in show business and her philosophy of kindness. This is one conversation you'll never want to end.

There you go.

and. Oh, and so her book is titled Opinions of a Tennessee Talker. And because it's open to opinions, and I think we're going to get into ours as we go along, I also wanted to share a couple of reviews I found about the book. So one is on the back of the book from Fanny Flag, who it just keeps coming up. Fried Green Tomatoes. Salina Fanny is the author of the Fried Green Tomatoes at the Whistle Stop Cafe book. and she said at last, a book that looks at only the best in life and tells us how we can find it for. For ourselves. Meanwhile, Publishers Weekly said the first word of the title is the best description of this book. And remember, that was trying to get to heaven. actress singer Carter is best known for playing Julia SugarBaker on the TV sitcom Designing Women, whose fans will likely flock to read this autobiography if the book seems to hark back to an earlier era. That's because Carter loudly stresses the importance of what many would call old fashioned values. The author, who hopes sophisticates are reading along, admits she may sound un European and gauche, but that doesn't stop her from decrying, decreeing under. Decrying, decrying underarm hair on women. Oh, and men should keep their hairy legs covered up when riding a plane by not wearing shorts. This fair is offered under the rubric if I were the ruler of all things. If you've ever sat next to someone yakking your head off and wished you could escape, that's how you're likely feeling. You're likely to feel reading this compendium of opinions by an authority on nothing in particular.

Okay, so if you're trying to make a book selection, what does one do

Okay, so if you're trying to make a book selection and these are the two reviews that are placed in front of you, what does one do? You do what I do the best or the worst.

You do what I did next and you go to the fans opinions. Because I feel like that's sometimes a. More like I really struggle with critic reviews. Sometimes I just feel like everybody's a critic, you know what I mean?

Out of touch or something.

Something. There's something. so on Amazon it has 4.4 out of 5 stars. A 4.4 out of 5 star rating based on 83 reviews. And on Goodreads it's a 3.52 out of 5 based on 119 ratings. So you just have to decide, are you good with like a three and a half to four star book? And if you are, go for it. Give it a try.

I Mean if you, if you're sitting down and writing a book, I'm. That's a big deal.

You know, this one's kind of a long one too.

It was long.

It was not brief.

not more in peace. Long, but long.

Well, you know, yeah, it was kind of long. So I mean, hopefully people will make their own decision. That's it.

So what a good way to transition.

Nikki: Publisher's Weekly review of the book was harsh

Maybe I'll say it into what our general reactions were. So Nikki, what was it that initially popped for you or anytime in the book really.

So I definitely think that Publisher's Weekly review was harsh. more harsh probably than the book deserves, but I think it was on to a couple of points. you know, one of the things it mentioned was it was sort of the opinions, of someone who. What did it say? Like a companion of opinions by an authority on nothing in particular. It kind of felt that way. Like it was just a little, covered a lot of area A lot of opinions on a lot of hot button issues. So it was pretty sprawling and at times a little hard to follow along. the anecdotes that she introduces about her life in Tennessee and her family. Sometimes it was a little hard to remember where we were headed with that. and they felt a little tangential. Nonetheless, they were interesting to read. I think her family was fascinating. so I think it was, at times a little bit of a tough read. The language was kind of flowery almost. It read to me like, that's the way she talks. And if you knew her, you would understand it. Like, that would really resonate with you. It almost. It sounded very much like her voice. so maybe there were parts of it that were more inside joke than I was privy to. Some of it was kind of hard for me to follow because I'm not used to people talking this way. The 1996 of it all by a woman who was born in the 1940s. Like, there's just a generational disconnect, too, that I think makes it a little bit of a tough read. But like I said, I enjoyed the anecdotes. Some of it did feel like a little bit like the thing we talk about with our Southern ness, you know, like it reminds you of your grandma. Sometimes there are just things she said or little anecdotes she told that made me feel like, this feels like something someone in my family would share. It was very Southern, very, like, felt familiar. So I appreciate that of it. So all that to say too long. Didn't read. It was a little tough to read. But, I'm glad I stuck along because there was some really interesting stuff in there.

I think we were probably circling different variations of the same color. So the first thing I would say is that the book title did not lie. You know, it is partially titled Opinions of a Tennessee Talker, as we said. And, well, you said I didn't say anything, but, I don't wanna. I don't want to take that from you, Nikki. I didn't say it.

The book said it.

But that. That it is. I mean, it turned out that Dixie had a lot of opinions and she was very matter of fact in her delivery. They were soup to nuts opinions. There's even a part on grooming where she talks about how to brush her teeth and shower frequency. See, it also highlights for me, and I bring that up specifically an undercurrent that I was picking up on in the book, which was like, I gather she didn't think people Were being raised right anymore.

You know, I think that's definitely present here. And you know, what's that saying? Some of yalls biscuits ain't done in the middle. It just felt like she. That's what she really wanted to say. You know, I want to say that a lot myself.

I'm going to start saying that now. I've never heard that.

And then like have a biscuit.

Right. Mine are.

Delicious.

The book was intended to be conversational, but sometimes it meanders

so I also to your point about how sometimes you felt like you were a little lost in the sauce. Huh? You know, I thought a lot about it. You know, again, that's what you do a lot. At 5 o'clock in the morning you sit there and think about Dixie Carter. That's all of us, right?

Everyone. Everyone else right now.

Exactly. The, the book was intended, I think to be stream of consciousness because I think they wanted it to be conversational. Like maybe like you're sitting with her on a patio, on like a porch swing or something, like just having some tea and you know how like if you and I are just flowing like we're all over the place.

I don't know what you're talking about. We are super straight line from one topic to another.

But that like natural conversation, I think meanders and maybe that was what they were going for. But I do think that's tougher a reader, you know.

Yeah, that's an interesting. I'm trying really hard not to compare it to Delta's book because I know we want to talk about that a little bit later, but hers was very conversational in a like easy flow sort of way. You know, like I felt like I was sitting with a friend listening to her tell stories in a way this one wasn't. But when you frame it that way, like she's this person who feels like she has things to bestow on the world in terms of opinions and wisdom, then yeah, it probably would feel a little bit like that. Yeah.

I think for me if you know that there was just some transitions between the topics that were a little choppy and that took me out of it a little bit. But I think, yeah, I think thinking about it as conversational helped me find that as a grounding space. I also, for the record, I found her to be very poetic and dreamy and romantic. Those were all things that I really enjoyed. If it truly was her doing a bulk of the writing. I mean we don't know like, I don't know if she had like some help, but if it truly was her. I thought many of her passages were beautifully poetic. For example, she had this to say about a tree on her and Howell's property in Tennessee. So, she said, before we go to sleep at night, we often stand on the little balcony outside our bedroom and look at it, looming against a sorcerous night sky, its giant arms stretched over us, royal and primitive. It's pretty impressive. I've never said anything like that in my life. I'm like, look at that sky. Yeah, I just. I don't know. So I was like, looking back to that and thinking, I mean, that's. That's not something that everyone has the capability, or ability to say. And I also found her interesting in this, like. And this is my last general reaction. And then we can move on to biggest surprises. But I found her an interesting mix of traditional, like uber m traditional, and then at other turns, not at all traditional. So she's like an early kombucha adopter who saw clairvoyance in the 80s, but also thinks you should sit at the table three times a day for meals and change clothes before you eat, and.

God forbid you watch television.

Yeah. So just different in that way, you know?

Yeah.

And. And I. I honestly want to say that I think that's more normal than not, because I think we're just comfortable putting people in boxes, but it doesn't mean the boxes we put them in or a fit. So I like that her opinions on things kept me on my toes. I. I didn't always know who I was going to get.

Yeah. And yeah, I like that, characterization, because I think each of us has our little quirks and those things that resonate really firmly with us. And so she very clearly values, socializing, social order. She values, you know, a traditional family structure, but that doesn't mean she can't also want to explore new and different ways to stay young or to stay healthy. She's. There was a lot in there about being a health nut, quote, unquote. so I like. I liked what you're pointing out, that you can contain all of these things. And the book definitely speaks to that for sure.

Designing Women references were few and far between, which surprised me

So thinking about biggest surprises, what was. What was really stand out for you?

So I had a few, I think it surprised me a little bit that Designing Women references I have written here were few and far between. But actually there were only two. Two I think, that I clocked, and both were related to Annie Potts. There was, I think, as expected, no delta at this point in time. I don't think they had, Reconnected. I don't know that they ever did, to be honest. But there was no Delta, There was no Gene, which mildly surprised me. I would have expected there would have been more there. There was definitely no lbt, which shocked me. I feel like we talked about her career. We talked about, you know, I think, Annie Potts came up more in an aesthetic way. Like, I think she admired Annie's, like, bohemian vibe, which is what I was pulling from. Like, there was one reference to how Annie's house was decorated, and then I don't remember what the other one was, honestly. But only two references?

Yeah, she said her decorating style was very ooh and ahhs. Like, a lot of the way that she could put creams and beiges and whites together or something, so.

But there were no other references. except in the very beginning. in the, prologue, I think she talked about being Julia Sugarbaker and says, men, women, and you youngsters who feel friendly toward Julia Sugarbaker, with whom I perforce share many particularities, that she represented something people liked and admired and wanted in their lives. And that, further, the conclusions I've drawn from my own experiences might be interesting, even useful, to someone else. So, it was just interesting to me that she didn't cover that more because she wouldn't have been too far removed from Designing Women at that point. It had been a huge part of her career. Certainly what comes through in the book is that that financed a lot of things that she had at that point in time. So I just thought it was interesting. She didn't reference it more.

Yeah, I think so.

How few times Designing Women came up in this book

This was, I had, like, two what you like, biggest surprises. And this is my second one, but it is essentially a very similar thing here. And so I was just. I was floored. How few times Designing Women came up. I mean, you're reading the book description, and it's like, Julia Sugarbaker, right? So I. I got four total references, and I. I mean, I'm sure I missed some things, but, like, it didn't come up at all until page 79. You know, she talked about how it related to her plastic surgery. she didn't want to be seen as the older one on the show. That's something we've talked about before. The Annie Potts reference, as you mentioned. Then later, you also mentioned this, too. She was talking about an extravagant dining room table that she bought with her Designing Women booty. I do mean booty as in pirate's treasure, and not booty as in booty delicious. M. and then I think one final time was in her dressing room maybe when. So this is like when someone suggested you should do a yoga video. And then that. That was pretty much it. In to your point. There was no mention of Gene. none of we're on first name.

But I am too.

None. of seven Seasons.

Salina. We are.

That's right.

And there were no mentions of Meshach. That's true.

Now, there was one mention of lbt, but not related to designing.

You're right. There was.

She mentioned Filthy rich.

Yeah.

And that's how she met m. Her. And that was really. I. That was. But that was it. And I. I don't know. For me, I think given that in my estimation of things and even on the book cover it says she's Julia Sugarbaker. That is what she is arguably known the most for. And so if she is that silent on the topic, I think that kind of speaks volumes. You know, her and Delta do. We're just going to keep it on the first name basis. They do eventually make up, but I don't think it's for another five, six, seven years. Something like that.

And I think when I say that, I mean, like, get back to the point where she's serving as the bridesmaid in Delta's wedding or the maid of honor or whatever. I don't.

Yeah, I think it was. They were speaking again in front of cameras.

Yeah.

So I don't know. Anyways, it's really sad because obviously they were very close in that loss of friendship is. I, mean, I'm not happy anytime I lose a friendship. So it depends.

Her and Hal's sailing adventures surprised me a little bit

what about other biggest surprises?

I have a few more. I'll say. Her and Hal's sailing adventures surprised me a little bit, mostly because they sound like genuine adventures. Like they're out sailing like actual bodies of water and like navigating actual things like tides and storms. That said, I will say that one story about visiting the village in the French Polynesian. It was about page 228. That was a little weird for me. So she used words like mumbo jumbo to describe the language they spoke in. She talked about their food as filthy broth in a filthy vessel. And then the takeaway was sort of like, if it's good enough for the Oxford educated chief, then it must be good enough for the rest of us. And also, when one encounters a noble nature, one is apt to feel lifted and ennobled oneself. I don't know that anyone ever pointed out the Irony to her about how ennoble it is to talk badly about someone behind their back, which I very much felt like she was doing there.

Yeah. Okay, so I want to say first that I definitely. You saying that and reading those specific passages, I see totally where you're coming from. I kind of thought when I was reading it and maybe I was giving it, like a fairer shake than it deserved. I thought she was kind of telling on herself for being closed minded. And then they turned out to be like this very nice, loving, kind, inviting group of people who only wanted to, you know, share in an experience with them. And like, I. I thought maybe she was expressing that she felt bad for the things that she said, but maybe she didn't. And I misread all that.

I wanted to believe that. I wanted to believe that.

Yeah.

But then I got to the end and I was like, wait a minute. I'm not sure that's what I was supposed to take away from this. So I did it first. Try to give it the 1996. Like, I don't. Everybody was just different back then, but it just felt really not cool. I didn't love that part.

Yes, yes. If she was. If that was not supposed to set up and be like, shame on me for making a snap judgment, then I would call that a, 1996. Oopsie, poopsie. I would call that a 2025. That doesn't make it into your book.

Yeah, I pro. Like, I. I can't. I mean, I'd have to read the whole section out loud for us all to debate what she intended with that. But I don't know that it was resolved. It didn't feel resolved.

That's fair.

The other interesting thing, this, like, was super shocking to me

The other interesting thing, this, like, was super shocking to me. I think she was rich rich growing up. So she had, like, that whole story about wintering in Florida because of her sister's allergies. Like, her family bought. Her dad bought a hotel so they had somewhere to stay.

Oh. Uh-huh.

So I think.

Wait, a whole. A whole hotel?

Yeah, it was on.

Oh. I just thought she meant a hotel room. My goodness, they're doing nice. I didn't even bring my copy. Not either.

Daddy bought beachfront property on Siesta Key, which is also very jaja today. I assume it was then. And put up an apartment motel, the Sea Dream, so we'd, quote, have a place to stay. What fun we had. Wild. Yeah.

Okay.

I think they were rich rich. There was also more in there about, like, her getting musical tutoring and I, think there was a. She definitely lived rural, but I think they were the wealthy of the rural families.

Yeah, I, yeah, I agree that there's, some, tidbits in there that.

Would point to he owned a hardware store or something.

Yeah.

But I thought, I just thought that was interesting. I'm just fascinated by that. I think the hotel thing, I was like, what? Because I know what Florida is like now. I know it was different then, but like the panhandle and the Gulf side is very like, ja, ja and fancy. So I was like, oh, that's crazy. I ended up looking it up later because I was just curious. And I do think Even in the 60s, Siesta Key was, exclusive.

Okay.

Exclusive. I know it many ways.

Yeah.

One quote in particular surprised me in the book

the other thing I thought was interesting, you mentioned this. She made at least two yoga videos. but this quote in particular surprised me. I'm proud to claim the distinction of being the first to take yoga from the esoteric into the mainstream fitness arena. so I think she, according to her, she put out the first like yoga workout video.

Yeah. I just decided to believe her.

Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, I did too. Yeah, that's what it surprised me.

As a mom who has kids close in age, I was surprised that her girls were born one year and one month and 19 days apart. That's super close. My kids are 16 months apart. Hers are essentially 13 months apart. I found out I was pregnant with my second at 4m when my daughter was 4 months, 6 months old. So that would have been when her daughter was four months old. That's just, that's close.

Yeah.

and then finally, she rarely referenced her divorce from her first husband, Arthur. When she did, it was kind of veiled and the words were carefully chosen. And I'm imagining that's for many reasons. I will say I was shocked to learn he was Jewish.

And I think again, because that Southern sort of sensibility, that she had paired with, what seemed to be a very strong faith leaning, it surprised me that, she married someone who's. Who was Jewish. That just feels like. When I think about my, Southern Baptist family, I just think that would have ruffled some feathers. And she does allude at the end of the book about how that puts some strain on her marriage. So that's why it surprised me when it came up, I was like, whoa, that feels complicated.

Yes, I have thoughts about that in another section. So that's why I'm like, yes, but, but yes, I agree it also stood out to me as well.

Dixie passed in 2010 from ovarian cancer. That's about 14 years after this book was published

My other surprise is just. And I don't. Surprise may not be the right word, but I'll say I was really struck when Dixie talked about how she didn't want to take hormones for the fear of uterine cancer. Then she reluctantly took them at some point, at which point she wrote, as I said, I do hope these hormones work. If you are watching television 20 years from now and you hear my voice but, don't see me anywhere, then you can surmise that they didn't. So I just felt where we are in time right now, that felt like a real gut punch. She passed in 2010 from ovarian cancer. That's about 14 years after this book was published. And actually, she brought up death a few different times, and it just. It just hit differently, and then also hit differently because there's just been a lot of cast members that have passed, including, you know, guest star and her husband, Hal Holbrook. So I think that makes a read a little tougher when it's not. When that book is no longer brand new and you're talking about someone who is a real person and not fiction. So not to just bring it totally down. And then, you were through your surprises, because I don't want to cut you off if you have anything else.

Yeah.

Nikki: There was a lot of focus on weight and body image

Okay. So book themes. I thought we had several that we've kind of compiled to talk about that emerged over the course of our read. Generally speaking, there was a lot of focus on. On looks or image, way more than I was expecting. It's pretty threaded throughout the entire, narrative. So for that reason, I thought we could start with weight and body image. And how did this hit for you, Nikki?

So I really struggled through the chapter called My Childhood as a Health Nut. I think the biggest thing that section has going against it is, again, the 90s of it all. But I think it's worth talking about because the other thing. And again, I'm trying not to preempt too much that discussion comparing hers and Delta's book, but it did bring to mind for me her relationship with Delta. And, you know, Delta's whole book was about accepting yourself at any size. We talked oftentimes about Delta's weight struggle, and what she went through. And Dixie's version didn't leave me feeling that she was super accepting of people of a certain size. So, like, I love the focus on whole food, nutrition. She talked about her mom's dedication to feeding her family more natural, homegrown things. I think everybody should hear that message. I think that message is true in this book. Actually a little ahead of its time, and I think it needs to be heard, especially now. I think her points about fast food and preservatives being the enemy to American health were valid, except that she tied them to weight rather than to this holistic, like, taking care of your body sort of thing. She made it more about, like, if you eat these things, you're gonna get fat, and what else did you expect? so I just didn't love that focus on weight. It felt judgmental. I think for me, the final nail in the coffin was her example of her battle with the weight, which is what she called it. So after her second pregnancy, she bravely shared that she weighed 165 pounds. So she's been 50 pounds overweight and, quote, knows how it feels. That was kind of hurtful because, one, she just had a baby, so you're going to weigh more. But two, that's not the same as a struggle that other people have. And that felt really short sighted and really judgmental. but again, I did love after that how she went into what she herself was eating, you know, at the time that she was writing this book, talking about how she felt afterwards, including the foods that don't make her feel her best. I think one of my hot takes as I'm getting older is that people are quick to call it, disordered eating. If you say, like, I don't eat carbs after a certain time, or I try not to drink wine during the week. But I think when we can frame it as how. What fuels our bodies and how. When. How what we eat makes us feel the best, I think that's a valid conversation to have, and I don't think it needs to be labeled a certain way. It could just be exactly as Dixie put it, fueling your body for your best performance. So I did love that aspect of her health journey and her health, approach.

I. I took this out, but I'm just going to say it, since you were talking about this specifically. Like, I always want to hear what people eat. Is that weird? I just. Me too. I just think it's so fascinating, right, Because I think the way that people approach food is so different or, like, what they won't eat, you know, is also really interesting to me. You know, like, I just hate cilantro or like, I hate black olives, but, you know, I love green olives. You know, I just. Which is me, by the way. So, I just Think that's always like. So I was like enraptured in that part. Oh, tell me more about what you eat every day.

Oh, I love, I loved that part because one, like you said, I also, I'm like super. I love to know what people eat. And again, I love her focus on fueling her body. That sounded so healthy and again, so far ahead of its time. Time. I just don't think women in the 90s were conditioned to think about food as body fuel. They were trained to think about it as an. A negative body image thing. So I've loved that. I just hated the unfortunate ties to weight, which is not a slight on Dixie necessarily. I think it's generational. I think it's cultural. I think there was a lot at play there. Just with.

I'm right there with you.

20, 25 eyes. It reads different.

Yes. I just wanted to start soft.

Not me. Let's jump right in.

Dixie's advice came across as judgmental, but I don't think malicious

Well, I wanted to start soft and I, I thought maybe we could just list what we ate today. But no, I. So I, I'm with you. I counted 15 pages about how to maintain weight. Yeah, 15 for me. Also, similar to what you said, it came across pretty judgmental though. I don't say same, same. I don't think she meant for it to. I definitely don't think it was malicious. you know, contextually my reading was that it was ingrained into her from her own mom, you know, and you could. You got a bit of that in the commentary and the way that her mom was or like, I guess like her mom freaked out when she like gained her freshman 15 or whatever. And it was just in a way that it like it did not strike me as healthy. You know, you said generational and I have written here, maybe it's generational, you know, so Dixie was born in the 30s and they grew up when there wasn't an obesity epidemic. Somehow I think that makes them the least empathetic.

Of all the generations and more likely to lean into the personal responsibility ideology. And there is personal responsibility in the mix. I'm not trying to say there isn't, but this is also the mid-90s. You mentioned that as well. In addition to the thinking being different, we're also at the height of the fat free dieting. I don't think we yet grasped the larger systemic issues, including a food system in the US that is working against and certainly not for us. They're not talking about the food lobby at this time. We talk about it. We don't do anything about it. We talk about it. And regardless, I'm always going to bristle at advice that kind of sounds like, put down the chocolate cake, fatty.

There was one line. I didn't write it down, but it was something along those lines, like, what goes not far, what goes between your lips is gonna. That whole, like, a minute on the lips is 50 years on the hips or whatever. There was one line that I was just like, come on, man. Come on.

It's. It's tough. It's. It. That. That part was me. M. For me was just. It was just really tough. and again, I don't. I think. I truly think that from her perspective, she was just trying to help a thousand percent.

Thousand.

In 1996. Maybe it was helpful when we didn't have all of this other information we weren't thinking about. Maybe it was helpful for someone, but.

Somebody needed to hear the message about natural food, about natural food sources. Because I also think we sort of started that. That rise of fast food was. I mean, it was like McDonald's was everywhere in the 80s and 90s in a way that, like, she couldn't have fathomed in her childhood. And so I love that she doubled down on that. And like, that was the. The holdover from her childhood that if she could impart that on her children. Fuel your body, take care of your body.

Well, you know what's funny? Since she didn't talk about Designing Women, I will. And I think that maybe this got picked up and put into the plot where they all wind up look, working at the fast food place to help Mary Jo, you know, and she said, I won't eat any of that. And I'll. You, it's definitely like, we know that LBT would pick up things from the cast in real life, and I feel like that really got worked in there. So maybe.

Actress was blunt about wanting to look young onscreen

All right, well, we got to talk a lot about food. How about, How about a, plastic surgery? Aesthetic surgery, however you would like to phrase that.

Well, she likes to phrase it aesthetic surgery, which I kind of love. I kind of love that. I appreciated that she was really blunt about not wanting to look old next to her co stars and that being her aim. because I don't think there's. I think we have a lot of celebrities today who are like, I've never had Botox, but I'm 46 years old with a completely smooth forehead. Like, just own it. Just own it. It doesn't help anybody to think that was all natural. In fact, it just makes everybody Else feel bad. So I loved that she owned that, and I loved that her mom was really supportive. So, like, it's worth saying, she was really nervous to tell her mom she wanted a facelift. But turns out her mom, imagine this. Just wanted what was best for her and ended up going on a mission to find her the best possible surgeon. So I loved that, I loved when she said, I'm a happy woman at home, at work, and in the middle of the night when it's just me in the ceiling. But let me say this. Growing up is hard. And when we think maybe we're starting to get there, all of a sudden we've started aging, and aging is hard. I really thought that was super prescient, and it resonated really heavily with me. so I sat with that one a lot.

Yeah, I mean, things are changing, and sometimes you look in the mirror and you're like, I mean, not you, me. Sometimes I look in the mirror and I'm like, okay, well, I see where we're headed, and I'm just gonna have to feel okay about it.

There's no other option.

I mean, that's why you gotta love in here. You do first, so that you can accept whatever is out here and happening to you.

I think this was very useful to talk through what to expect with plastic surgery

Well, I just want to say for me that I really appreciated the candidness as well. I actually think that this is one of those parts where she really shined. I think this was very useful to talk through what to expect, what to look for in the doctor to, you know, be really thoughtful when you're making those decisions. And so whether someone is thinking about it or is going, you know, is doing it already, they can make sure they're with a provider that cares 100%.

I'm glad you're saying that, because going back to that point, I was making about celebrities who are just like, I've never had anything done. I loved that focus on doing it the right way and doing it like you. I think at one point she even said, you get what you pay for, which I really appreciate it. I think, plastic surgery, aesthetic surgery, these sorts of, like, plumpers and fillers, they're becoming super duper common. And if they're going to be this common, I think it only benefits people who have predominant voices who are willing to share some of this guidance and expertise, whether they've been through it in a good way or in a bad way, sharing that. And again, this is an example of where this book was a little bit of ahead of its time, because I don't know that very many people were talking about this back then either.

Advocating for yourself as a patient is so incredibly important

Advocating for yourself as a patient is so incredibly important. And it's 2025 and we're still not talking about it enough. I don't think nearly enough humans know that they can do that or that they should do that. I don't think they feel empowered in the exam room. I think that leads to a lot of problems. and I think it is, to think that we can just rely on a provider to do it. It's great when it happens, but it's a pretty dangerous, risk to take, you know, and, but you can't just expect a person to know. So someone being as brave as she was and speaking out on that I think is a really beautiful thing. And I think it's also helpful for me because it also says to me that, and this is why I could look back at the weight piece and be like, I know she was trying in her way to be helpful because you see that coming through here too. For sure, it just came through better.

Here because she had had it done.

And because it was a problem that she faced.

Exactly.

Or maybe not a problem, but however you want to phrase it, it was.

A challenge she was looking to address. Right. I do remember being surprised that point of advocating.

She describes her interaction with the surgeon right before her procedure

So one of the things we talk about with our podcast is that our goal is to talk about, Southern stereotypes and to talk about when those maybe are a little more accurate and inaccurate. And one of the things I thought about reading through that section about her and her mom both being advocates in the doctor's office was this stereotype of Southern women as like submissive or like you know, always trusting what the man says. And they both sound like they very firmly held each one of these doctors feet to the fire and were like, I'm going to hold you accountable and I'm going to ask you really tough questions. And I really appreciated like the steel magnolias of it all, like really pushing and leaning in.

Yes, a hundred percent. I also, I don't know if this is appropriate or not and maybe you didn't find it funny, but it really made me laugh. And this is when she's like detailing her interaction with the surgeon on the table right before her procedure. And so they've hit her with the good stuff. And then she goes on to say, I sat bubble upright on the table with one last reminder. Please, please remember, I don't want to wake up with 45 year old eyes looking out of a 25 year old face. I want to look good, not to go back in time. Do not make me look one day younger. And then the last thing I heard as he gently eased me back down onto the table was, well, maybe 40.

Yeah, that's great.

And you just kind of. You just kind of like, picture him hitting her with the gas.

Go to sleep.

Right. I'll be like, well, that's fine. Thank you so much.

And also to that point, I loved her perspective on surgery, which was like, make it something that accentuates your best features, not something that makes you look like your face has been pulled back and stapled to the back of your head.

Yeah, she wanted something moderate. She wanted something realistic. She wanted to feel better about herself. She. She didn't want to change. And I think that did go to show, you know, we're talking about, you gotta love yourself. And she. She loves herself. And that is something that we should all be aiming for, you know?

Yeah.

Is there anything else in the image that you wanted to. Okay. She's given me the no. No. well, not the no.

No, just a no, I'm not in.

Trouble, or anything else that. That might represent that better.

Dixie talks a lot about family in this book

So, going on to the next category of family, Salina sticks her foot in her mouth. Dixie talks a lot about family. Everything from childhood to marriage to parenting. We've already hinted quite a bit around this. You'd have to. I think. I think it's probably the biggest thing of, the entire book. For me, her childhood was very present. Did that pop for you as well, Nikki? And what did you think about Dixie's childhood? I know you've talked a little bit about it, but if there's anything else you wanted to share.

In so many ways, it sounded idyllic, like, it just sounded amazing. She got, like I said, this wonderful combination, of. Of rural and, like, child out in the dirt, but also pressed and starched and ready for Sunday dinner, but also, like, down in Florida getting their choice of where to learn to swim in the ocean. Like, it just sounded incredible. And then, you know, she seemed to have a good relationship with her siblings, more so I think with her sister, because it seemed like they were close in age. she adored her parents. it took me a couple times of reading the name, I kept wanting to call her mom. Jina. It's Jenna is how. And she said multiple times, that's how it's pronounced. But I just kept saying Jina. she adored Jenna. Everything about Jenna she thought was magical. her dad lived with Her, I guess, until he passed. Which obviously tells you something about her childhood and what that meant to. To her. So, the rich, rich component of it, the rich in money and rich in family, all of that stuck out to me.

Yeah, I mean, we get a lot of core family. We also meet some aunts and uncles. In the co. In the coda, she uses the term idyllic. And she said that she would tell people that and they would laugh because they thought she was joking, but she wasn't. Honestly, the way she tells it, they. I mean, they do sound a little bit like a black and white TV show from the 50s. Cannot, relate, you know. But all that said, while I didn't experience it in my childhood, there's something beautiful about a happy family gathering around a table to be with one another. You know, it made me think of.

That when I was reading that, all of those sections where she would talk about her childhood. The Steel Magnolias theme song, that, very big instrumental. The panning through the Small town. That's what I kept thinking of. Like, the aesthetic of her childhood was very much like that Steel Magnolia small town.

Okay. All right. I can. Yeah. Now I wish I had been playing in my head. That's fine, though. I really felt something reading about the. The love and care. You. You had, talked about this a little bit, but her mom put into every meal or fixing up and decorating their home or taking care of her children. I, you know, I. It's warm fuzzies and happy making.

Lovely.

Yeah, I. I did sincerely identify also with her saying every little girl must find a certain level of mystique and watching their mom's get ready ritual. She said it in a slightly different way. Something about her toilet experience or something. But like, but that's what she means is the get ready ritual. And, my. So, you know, my mom doing her makeup in the bathroom is like forever imprinted on my brain and my soul. You know, I think these are really meaningful moments. They're learning moments for me. It was teaching me a little bit about a part of being a woman. and certainly that, you know, I also get ready in the bathroom. So there's just something like, you think about. There are these certain aspects that probably get passed down from generation to generation.

And, you know, someone recently told me that women are, evolutionary, evolutionarily preferred because they pass on things to the next generation. It's all coming together.

I think I've heard of that. The grandmother hypothesis. Yeah.

You know, speaking of grandmothers, I was really Touched by her stories

You know, speaking of grandmothers, I was really Touched by the stories that she told about her grandmother. You know, she described her as fiercely shy but fiercely loving her. I thought. I think in addition to the plastic, surgery bit and the patient advocacy bit, this is another part where she really shined in her writing, because I felt like I could both feel and see who her grandmother was. I m really loved her story at the very end. Stay with me, because I think you might be like, what? But, like, her grandma is so entranced by the night sky or something that she falls off the porch and, like, breaks her wrists. I want to be very clear. I did not want her to break her wrist. That part is terrible. I don't want her to be hurt. But somehow I also simultaneously love that she was so enraptured by what she saw that she just fell down.

Yeah. Yeah, I hear that.

So. Because I think that might be, like, a little bit of where Dixie gets some of her poetic side from, you.

Know, the drama, for sure.

Brahmo.

Yeah. You know, true.

Yeah. There's just something like, I have an extra soft spot for beautifully quiet, faithful grandmas out there, making the world go.

Round a thousand percent. And there were a few times where she talked about, like, the older family members. I want to say it was more grandparents, but I don't have a specific examples, but more of them sort of keeping the kids in line. And I just think that if you have experience. Experience that I'm gonna say the Southern experience, because hers felt very Southern to me. I imagine both of my Southern grandmas giving me that eye of, like, that outfit doesn't look good. You're not being appropriate in church. Sit at the table properly. Like, they don't even have to say it. You just know, straighten up and fly right. And I think until you've experienced that, you haven't experienced it. But as I was reading it, I very much was feeling it.

Yes. And you do straighten up real quick. And it's because there's a different kind of respect there than for a parent. Sorry, mom and dad.

Grandparents can be scary.

yeah. But even when they weren't scary, it was still just like, I just thought I wanted to be good for them. I didn't want to be good for my parents. I didn't care. Like I said, sorry, Mom. Sorry, dad.

I really want to see the work that Dixie and Hal did on family home

So my very last comment on family. I didn't really have a fit, but I for it. But I wanted to say that for the record, I really want to see the work that Dixie and Hal did on her family home where they grew Up. Oh, yeah, yeah. So after her mom passes, they plant like hundreds of trees, including, like, I. I can't remember some sort of crazy amount of like, weeping willows and all of these oaks. And I just. I don't know if someone's like, keeping up with that. I try to look around for it and I couldn't find anything. But, like, if someone is maintaining it, I have a feeling that it is gorgeous.

Yeah, I did. I looked up Mac Maclismore or that town that she's from in Tennessee. The population is something like 300. It's a very tiny town.

We have a lot of people on social media who are. I think maybe every resident has told us that they've had an encounter with, because they were just known there. And to your point, because it's so small, and then everybody always says how lovely they both are.

They've had an encounter.

But maybe encounter is not a good word because I guess that makes it sound like it's something bad. But like every interaction with them is lovely because they're lovely people.

That's nice.

So, thinking about other family aspects, did you have anything marriage wise

So, thinking about other family aspects, did you have anything marriage wise? I know you had talked a little bit about Arthur, but there are other things that stood out.

Yeah. I think for marriage, it really was just her love for Hal. And she talks a little bit about their early days of dating, a little bit about how they came to be together. But their partnership in marriage seemed really, really strong and seemed solid, which I thought was lovely. I think we kind of knew that, but it seemed, it seemed lovely. you just mentioned the house they fixed up together, all of their sailing adventures. It seems like he had a good relationship with her children, which was nice. so, yeah.

Yeah. And I imagine in like, you know, when you're starting a life over again and you already have children, like, that's the dream, right? That everybody gets along and there's really that love there because it's not given. I mean, not with your natural born children, honestly.

It sounds like disagreements in religion wound up finding their way into parenting

So, you know, but I, I think that for me, I was also thinking about Arthur a little bit in this section and you had mentioned earlier the fact that he was Jewish. I just, mainly I just thought that she talks about it in the coda, I think, and it was interesting because she, she's pretty blunt there, that it didn't just lead to disagreements. It sounded like, because it was disagreements that wound up finding their way into the parenting. and it sounds like that really led to the disillusion of the marriage. I think she was trying to Be very gentle there. Because she didn't want her daughters to feel that.

Yeah.

You know, and I think for, like, I don't know. I don't know that that difference in religion is quite. I think it can still be a thing. I don't think it's quite the same as it used to be, but it was for her, and that's what matters in the case of her life. And I actually really appreciated her honesty about it. And also trying to be sensitive to the feelings and needs of her daughters. That's a hard chord to strike.

I think that there are some religions, though, where your religion is almost like an inextricable part of your identity, and it does play into the way you're raised and the way you, your parents treat you, the things they expect of you. And so I feel like, in that particular instance, I could certainly see where those differences would be challenging. I mean, when it comes down to where you think you're gonna go after the world is over or who you think, you know, was the savior or not, like, those are very big issues to try to navigate. If you both believe very strongly and to instill your kids with a sense of, religion and then also their place in the world, that must be really hard to navigate. So I agree with you. I think it was really admirable that she was honest about it, but did it in a way that, like, if you were her daughter's reading, that you wouldn't feel like your mom just threw your dad under the bus.

No, it seemed very respectful. And I think she even said that, you know, she would always have a soft spot. Spurt. She would always have a soft spot in her heart for Arthur. And I. I think that. I think that's about the best that you can ask for out of two divorced people. You know what I'm saying?

100.

So, okay. Parenting. Parenting's a huge part of the book. I just want to go ahead and say that, like, both in the terms of how she parented, but also how she was parented. You know, I think these were both big features.

Nikki says this book is like a love letter to her children

I don't have much here, so, Nikki, I'm gonna, I'm gonna turn it over to you with a couple of thoughts to offer. So, as a daughter myself, that's a role I play. I can only imagine just how much this book must mean to her. Girls who are women.

I was thinking about that too.

I. I figured. And, My friend with the sweetest heart. And I figured this would have hit you in a different Way a person who is a daughter and has a daughter, Dakota especially, is like a love letter to her children, and how much they meant to her. Truly remarkable stuff. And it kind of made me think that every parent should get these feelings down for their children. If that's not part of the plan, like, or just more generally, if you love someone, say it, get it down somewhere, you know, because that is such a beautiful reflection.

Yeah, I think I said this earlier. Like sometimes it almost felt like that conversational aspect. You almost have to have had a conversation with her to have heard her voice saying these things.

Things.

And I couldn't help but think a couple of times reading the book. Oh my gosh, her girls must read this and only hear their mom's voice in their head. A voice they haven't heard now in I'm bad with math, but 15 years immediately read some of these pages and hear that and how beautiful that must be. you mentioned the coda. Prayers for my daughter flat out brought me to tears. I was not expecting that. I was just trying to finish the book. I was just trying to get through it.

If I had known where you were in time, I would have like checked on you.

Oh my gosh, it was so. I really loved this bit. I pray that my daughters have received those things which I had given me as a child. The ideas I grew up with which have stood me in good stead thus far. I heard many, many an aphorism, many a time, and now I'm glad for it. But even gladder for the countless stories and the lived out examples. My maternal grandmother Hillsman would very often say after a little lesson of some kind or admonition, line upon line, precept upon precept. Here a little, there a little. Throughout that whole section about her daughters, I loved the appreciation of ceremony and tradition. I just mentioned this with religion. All of these are these incredibly personal and incredibly family oriented things. They're unique to your little section of the world. And to be able to give that to your children and to give it selflessly, you know, you give it to them because you want them to have these things and you want them to know all of the things you've learned, I just thought that was really beautiful. And I couldn't help but think as I was reading that if I were her daughter, I would read that chapter of this one particular book once a year. Every Christmas, every day, on Mother's Day, every birthday, at least I would read that and just hear my mom's voice in my head 100%. It wasn't prepared to cry.

It was lovely. It was a. Definitely a top for the entire book.

Absolutely.

Is there anything else you wanted to share about parenting?

No. I think you mentioned, like, she talked a lot about how she was parented with this very traditional. But it seemed respectful, tone, which it sounds like she passed on to her daughters, which I think is wonderful.

Dixie talked about her passion for music and theater in her new book

Okay, well, we have career up next. So Dixie talked about her career, especially her passion for music and theater. I think out of everything there, it was more her training that stood out to me. that I. I forget her, like, coach's name, but they were really close, and he passed at some point. And so I did think that was a rather touching part. but honestly, other than, like, it felt more like that side of things that we heard about. Like, I think I read more about her piano recitals than, like, her actual career. Like, we've already talked about Designing Women. That's seven years of her life, and it's not even hardly featured in the book. even when she talks about Filthy Rich, it's. It's very small. I mean, that was a very small part of her career as well. But, what struck you?

So I think her career almost read as a paycheck to get her through to her next lesson, like a necessary evil.

Okay.

Her career recollections, to me, felt like a lovehate relationship and maybe almost a direct challenge to her morals and values. So she said at one point, show business as a career, for all its exciting moments here and there, does not necessarily engender food for the soul. And then I alluded to this earlier. Her diatribe against television was really something to behold. After knowing all, she had to thank Designing Women for four, she says it numbs the brain. It destroys conversation. It deprives children of an atmosphere in which they can learn how to converse. It preempts family dinners. It isolates. So, to be fair, she was talking about TV in large doses, which I think was a little bit of a national epidemic.

Ah.

In the 90s. And she was very clearly a moderation gal. But it was a really interesting dichotomy, between what we. What we knew, know she built her career on and how she felt about the medium. Fascinating.

Yeah, that's. That's very astute. I mean, she wanted to be on the stage.

I think she did. I think she. I think she loved the. Like. Like you said. I think she loved the lessons she took. She loved the training piece of everything. I think she loves art and fine Art. So there was this other thing about the Mapplethorpe exhibit. I feel like we discussed this at some point in design. Okay.

So when I did the modern art.

Okay, one, yes. So for folks who don't remember, it was an art exhibit that was funded, at least in part, with public art dollars. And it set off this really huge cultural debate in the late 80s because some of the imagery was, like, homoerotic, according to Wikipedia. And my recollection of our conversation was that it was just. It veered into the obscene. And so apparently Dixie was on the side of people who didn't think it deserved public dollars. She said, quote, I'm in the arts, and I believe in government subsidy of the arts, but I'm really mad that any of my money had gone to the mapplethorpe exhibit. If Mr. M just had to do it, I'd rather he put that show on without my help. So, one.

That's what I would expect her to think.

Fascinating intersection between Designing Women and this book. but then it is in line with what I would have expected, for the Southern sensibility reasons. And so this, like, again, all these things can exist at one time. But I think she loved fine art as long as it was fine art within her values and morals. You know what I mean?

Right, exactly. And that's always hard because, like, you know, part of me is like, I guess I kind of understand both sides. Ultimately, I come down on the side of, like, it's not really my business to tell someone else what their art is. So one might call it First Right Amendment or, First Amendment rights, you know, so you can say what you want, you know, if you don't love something, I can understand why you don't want your dollars going to it. That's just not really the way the world works.

Yeah.

And excuse me, that's not the way this government works. So I don't. I don't. I don't know to tell you, life is tough. Don't go to that exhibit. But yeah, definitely interesting to see. See her take on. On the art world. And interesting to see, how much she really loved the stage. And I wanted to say one more thing there. It does kind of make sense then, why Designing Women was a good home for her. Because we've talked about it. I've read the Elsewhere. The LBT has said it. Every episode is kind of like a play into. Of itself. And so I think that really works for someone like Dixie Carter that really wanted to be there, so.

Well, good.

She made it to the right spot.

Awesome.

There were several sections with religious undertones in this book

our next topic here was religion, and faith. What popped out for you here?

I mean, I think we've talked about this a couple of times throughout. She just clearly had a really strong religious background. she had quite a few sections with religious undertones. This one quote, I, It struck a chord with me. She said, the soul is the part of us that is part God. It's the only secret we have. It's the only true privacy we know. Then she goes on to say, those of us who feed our soul will be able to feel it growing. If we do not nourish it, it will shrivel, shrivel. If we nourish it, it will grow. It was part religious and then just part spiritual. Just kind of like feeling the greater our spirit spot in this. This big universe. And we can tend this little garden right here. And it's up to us how we tend it. Again, do we fuel it with the foods that, feed us well? Do we fuel it with the books that make us feel good, the media that, makes us think new and interesting things and inspires us, or do we do all these bad things? and so I appreciated one, how vulnerable she was with some of that. And then again, something you said earlier about her way with words, I mean, I just think that was. That's beautiful. It's the only secret we have. That's so true. No one can know what's in here but you.

Right? Yeah. I think it's interesting because certainly she does have a strong background in. In Christianity, and that is, definitely ingrained in her life and the way that she sees the world. And at the same time, I think the. You see an embracing of what I would consider Eastern philosophies. So I think it's probably stemming from her enthusiasm for yoga. She's obviously incredibly passionate about that.

Very.

Yeah, there was a lot about yoga in the book. I don't recall her using the words mindfulness and being present, but it's certainly what she was referring to when she wrote about, like, looking for the pleasant moments and her morning ritual or even, you know, her nighttime routine. She's basically meditating, and she's definitely talking about chakras and moving energy through the body. She's talking. She's like. She said her solar plex. Like, let me tell you what, Methodists don't talk about their solar plex. Yeah. She wasn't going to bring out the root and the sacral chakra, but I know what she was talking about. That definitely caught My attention.

Her aunt Nanette or whatever must have taught her about all that.

I think so, yeah. I would have really liked to, met her aunt and gone.

That's fascinating.

are you okay to move on to the next topic?

The theme of education and literature was very present in Salina's book

So we also kind of identify literature and education. and actually that was you. So let me not take that from you. I think that was a. It was a huge theme in the book, you know, and I don't even think I really thought about it until you said something, even though it was so present and so did you like this aspect? Did it work for you?

Yeah, I mean, I think when she started the. So at the start of the book, she starts by talking about a teacher that she had. And she talks about, you know, seize the day, carpe diem, how she thought that was all the statement. and so it sort of set this tone that this is where I say the anecdote sometimes lost me to what we were supposed to be learning from, because it started about school. And so I was prepared that, like, okay, she's about to talk to us about her education, blah, blah. No, it all built up to this point that she learned what carpe diem means, and so she lives the rest of her life by that. But it weaves throughout other chapters of the book. She calls back to teachers who influenced her life. And at this point, Dixie would have been in her 50s or 60s. I should know that off the top of my head. Her 50s or 60s, she was, quote, unquote, later in life. and to remember these teachers by name and remember the specific things they taught her I think was really amazing. And spoke to me about her value, the value she places on education and literature in particular, because she would start every chapter with a quote of some kind. At one point, it was a Bob Dylan quote, because I was reading it. It was the first one I read where I wasn't like, trying to twist my mind to try to understand what it was saying. I was like, yeah, this is good, this is good. And then I was like, Bob Dylan. Okay, perfect. but she uses a lot of very obscure literature. very flowery, wordsworthy kind of stuff. Like it was very. She's clearly studied in the world of literature, and I think some of it goes back to her love of performance. I think those two are almost intrinsically combined because if you love reading a script, then you love reading a book or a poem. All of those things appeal to you. So I just wanted to mention it because it was clearly a theme, like you said that was really present throughout the book. And again, spoke to me about her values. I think she talked about both her girls going to an Ivy League school and how that was really important to her. Important to them, too. But it was really important to Mom. She really wanted them both to have that experience. So I just wanted to mention that.

Yeah, I think. I mean, I don't think I was at all prepared for all of the lit references. And I'm a lip minor. And I was like. I mean, sometimes it was like three and four on a page of quotes.

And we don't read stuff like that anymore. So it takes you a minute to put your brain back on it.

Exactly. And I also felt like under educated, even with my lip mana. Like, under. I was like, oh, okay.

I mean, you've got, 20 years to catch up.

Exactly.

By the time you're 60, you should know, Salina.

We'll see. if it were my book, I probably wouldn't have included quite as many because I think at some point it felt like we were leaning on it. Yeah, a little bit. All that said, I. I did still like quite a bit of it. And there was one Williams, one, Wadsworth quote that sat with me. And that's that false secondary power by which in weakness we create distinctions, then believe our puny boundaries are things which we perceive and not which we have made.

Unpack.

that. Why don't you.

It would take me too long. I probably did at one point. And then I just skipped to the Bob Dylan when I read that one again.

Hey, he's poet.

It's so good. Was so good.

Salina: I loved Dixie's advice on decorating and manners

okay, so I've got. I've got a category that I threw in here. It's called A Traditional kind of Gal, which I like to think of as a catch all for some things that I really wanted to talk about. And that stood out to me, particularly around decorating and manners and etiquette, which I think are both things that are related to Designing Women. And they also relate to things that we've talked about on, you know, just an art corner of the Southern world. But before I jump into any of that, did this category resonate at all for you or you were like, Salina, what is wrong with you?

Well, I think we've talked about some of it, in other spots throughout here, how she definitely has some very traditional sensibilities. And, But she holds multitudes. We've talked about this. So I'd love to hear what you were thinking here. Yeah.

Because, I mean, for me, like, some things, I don't think it's a secret if you have listened and this isn't your first episode, that I don't really consider myself much of a traditional galaxy. that said, I. There are certain aspects, especially when it comes to the Southern piece, that I can really appreciate. So her decorating style I really appreciated. so she really. You really get a good sense of that tradition when she talks about her home. I think we've talked again about that overlap with tradition. Feeling very Southern, you know, I also just thought she had some really good advice. Don't buy a bunch of cheap pieces. Give yourself the time to buy nice things and collect over time. I also thought that was really kind of, she's obviously wealthy. You know what I'm saying? And so there was something very practical about that that I wasn't expecting. And then this quote really struck me. She said, insist on living with only what you like, including other people. I felt that.

I will say on the. She's clearly very wealthy. And so it was interesting, that she gave the perspective to, buy things that you really love. There was a little bit of a section about how when she was married to Arthur, she maybe was a little less frugal with her money, and her mom had to bring her in line a little bit in terms of, like, just don't go throwing your money on wacky things like getting your hair set once a week. so in thinking about this overall theme of the book being that she's giving us the lessons it's taken her 60 years to gather and coalesce around. That is one of those. That feels very much like something someone with years of wisdom would want to tell you. Like, don't go to Ikea, wait three paychecks, and go buy your couch at American, Signature, whatever. I don't know, Haverty's.

But also go to Ikea because of Swedish meatballs.

For the meatballs. Yeah, sure.

Cinnamon rolls. And also their lighting is actually pretty cool, but, yes, that too. and also when I was reading that, I was like, yeah, except, like, I get really, like, I have to finish this thing. And I'm like, get whatever's cheap. It doesn't matter.

So Dixie would tell you to exercise a little bit of patience, do a yoga class instead and come back in a week.

Well, she probably had me there.

Be present, Salina.

It's a journey, Nikki. It's a journey. I really liked her eclectic take on table setting. Also, I don't know if you remember.

This Part, just collect a bunch of china you like and set out what you like.

I love it. Like, I. I really like it when people are able to put things together that don't match, but somehow it still comes together. And it was also. It wasn't just like, I like it. It was like each piece held meaning. Like it was from someone she really cared about or this memory or this trip. I love that. Again, we're a Southern podcast that also feels Southern to me. she always kept fresh cut flowers in the house. I always wish I had, like, the. Whatever it is that you. The patience. Yeah, the page. No, she cut her own flowers, Nikki. She said it. but they always came from her garden. It was always roses. Again, I think roses is a pretty traditional choice. maybe a magnolia would be the most Southern. But, like, you don't hold. No, that's true. They do wilt pretty quick.

Huh? Yeah, but Southern to a T. So.

Yeah.

Salina Gomez writes about manners and etiquette in her new book

And then my other section was Manners and Etiquette. I really enjoyed this piece for a few reasons. So one is that in line, again, with how Southern she is. Obviously, we care, too. We've done multiple segments on manners and etiquette and the difference and exploring kindness versus being nice and all of that. So, you know, one of those segments that we did was actually for Julia in a Julia centric episode back in season five. So it just sort of brought up. I actually pulled that episode up and listened to it just because of reading this book and revisiting that was actually a lot of fun. I don't usually do that, but for whatever reason, I was like, what did we say about etiquette?

Well, you framed etiquette one time in a way I don't think I'd ever really articulated it, which is a lot of it is about making other people feel comfortable. And she said something along very similar lines here. Like, it is about wanting to create a space or an environment in which people want to exist and they want to be with you because they enjoy it. And they enjoy it because it's clean, neat, organized experience. They feel welcome, they feel comfortable. And so I was thinking about you when I read that section, because I was like, that's sort of how Salina put etiquette in a way. Like, I would have just, you know, said, like, it's just nice. I don't know what to tell you. I just like the way it feels when everybody's polite and everybody's doing their table manners and whatever. But it really is about creating an environment that makes people Feel welcome. When I read that section. Those sections of the book in particular, that one you were just talking about with the china, all I could think was, she would have been an influencer. She would have been, like, a very chic influencer.

Yes. I really wanted to see her table sat for real, especially since there's 18.

Seats and her girls must have inherited some amazing china and amazing furniture.

I think you're right.

She was super rigid about proper introductions. It broke my brain

And now to poo, poo on everything I just said. There was also at least one thing where I was, like, speaking of, like, to make other people comfortable. She was, like, super rigid about proper introductions. I don't know if you remember this part.

Yes.

It broke my brain.

Yes. I do you introduce, the eldest woman in the room first. I've never heard that.

Okay. If I know someone's doing that and.

They come to me first, I feel offended.

There's gonna be hell to pay.

Yeah, there. There's a lot in introduction in that section of introductions where I was just like, I've literally never heard this. And she didn't mention cotillion or etiquette classes. So part of me wondered, like, how much of this was, like, her mom's own, like, teaching of her. Her dad's or her grandma's or whoever's. And how much of this is real.

It was like, you know when you read, like, the protocol for meeting the queen.

Yes.

Of England, 100, you know, and it's, like, super convoluted, and everybody messes it up, you know, and that's what it reminded me of. And I was like, I can't be held to this high of a standard.

It's too much pressure.

Yeah.

Pressure. Yeah.

You know I'll crack.

I'd feel super uncomfortable.

Yes. Final, category is miscellaneous. Don't worry, y'all. We're coming to the end. I. You actually already talked about one, so thank you. Because we. I don't know if now we're entering the eighth hour, and I don't want people.

It's been longer than I thought it would be. That's for sure.

Murder us. Yes. but I.

For me, sailing part fell underneath this piece for me, so we talked about

The sailing part fell underneath this piece for me, so we talked about a big part of what I would have talked about there. I actually think the main thing I wanted to share was just that I. For me, I was just so impressed that they did this. You know? You were talking about that, too. Like, the bravery of going out there.

Going out there. Yeah.

Yes. On their own. Like, my goal reading that is, like, to be that brave and Surrender that much. You know, I don't know if this hit you or not, but she was just turning 40, I think. And so there is something that no reason given, that bell might be tolling for me soon. Like, it just made it hit differently. And I love that this gave her newfound strength. Like, when she came back, it sounded like she felt like a different person. I loved her description of the sunrise was very Taylor Swift coated with her lavender dream clouds. not the same lavender, but we're getting close in there. but I just. I don't know, I just thought it was all really incredible. And I enjoyed that part so much. So I wanted to give an ode to the fact that I don't know that just anyone can go out on the high seas. So if I had done that, it'd be going in my book, too.

Yeah.

And then my last thought, I just had to say this because it didn't fit anywhere else. But also, you know how we always joke, like, how old is Julia? Cuz her references. Okay. I just want to say that at some point, I could not stop laughing because she told a story about the snake oil salesman that used to come to Macklemore, Tennessee, all the time. Wild.

Oh, you just mean because, like, another world, like another time you met a snake oil salesman.

What?

To be fair, things in, the south sometimes run a little further behind than in other places, but. Yeah, which is why I'm. Like some of these things. This would be like reading a book my grandmother wrote. And I'm not sure that I agree with every sensibility she has.

What? I think if you're generations apart, we probably shouldn't be agreeing on everything. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, for sure.

Delta's book was part memoir, part beauty book

Okay, well, I threw one more category at you, and so I'll take responsibility for this one, which is that, obviously you've already teed this up as well. We read Delta's book, late last year, and I just thought it was probably worth talking a little bit about the. Like, what, compared between the two. So how do you feel about that? You feel okay about it?

yes, that's totally fine. They are two totally different books, which is fascinating because Delta had even talked about how the book she wanted to write was not the book she ended up getting to write, and Dixie did get to write it, I think.

Yeah.

I think this is what Delta wanted to write. And what Delta ended up writing was, like I said earlier, part memoir, part beauty book. And it was a lot more beauty book than it was memoir.

Isn't that interesting, though, how much Beauty things have to be featured in a woman's book in the mid-90s.

And so that. That is very true. I think what made this book appealing is that Dixie's book was that she was willing to talk about weight and appearance, but she also talked about some stuff that I wouldn't have guessed an editor would have wanted someone to Write in the mid-90s, like etiquette and tablescapes and stuff.

Yeah.

But I also, like, we already talked about the tone differences. Delta's book felt, a little more girlfriend conversational, where this one felt very confessional. Conversational.

Yeah. Ah. Like a little bit more approachable.

Yeah.

Maybe. Yeah. I think maybe some of that's the age difference. I wasn't. I'm not really sure, but that was my. My guess.

That's probably true. I kept wanting more pictures in Dixie's books. The pictures were my favorite part of Delta's book.

I looked at those. Yes. And, like, pictures of that. All those weeping willows would have been.

Lovely, would have been nice.

So I actually felt. I do agree with you, they're very different books. And then at the same time, like, I kept getting all these things that I was, like, these crossovers that I was like, That's really interesting. So I'll just share some of those, and then, I think we can wrap up. But they're both time capsules in their own way. We've kind of been dancing around that a little bit and dancing over it a little bit. But, like, what's new and innovative for then might be something. It's just old hat now. like saying something like old hat. But, you know, whether it's, like, beauty products or, like, what's the newest beauty tool. I think we get some of that, especially, really, in Deltas, too, because I think hers was so product forward, or, like, technology. I can't help but think about Dixie talking about those newfangled fax machines that she wasn't going to allow.

Some people even have TVs in their bedroom.

Yeah. I was like, I mean, I do know some people who still won't put a TV in their bedroom. I. This is fine. I think it's a personal choice.

Like, it so is. It was very much like. I think she may have also said, people have them in their kitchens now, and in most houses, you can see a TV from a lot of places today.

Yes. I would never have pegged her as a woman with a TV in her bedroom. So that was just. I feel like that was known. You know what I'm saying? So. But they, Also, I thought. I thought was interesting. They were both really close with their moms and their grandmas, and I'm almost pretty sure in both cases, it was their maternal grandmas. I'm just wondering if some of that, like, similarity, drew them together because they were such close friends. they both thought that more expensive wasn't necessarily better when it came to beauty products.

Both seem to be interested in fame from a young age

That hit me as I ran through. Both seem to be interested in fame from a young age, although for different reasons. Like, Delta was interested in pageants, and Dixie was interested in theaters and singing. But they both like to put on a show, and they both did pageants. Sorry.

They both did pageants.

That's true. Thank you. both were selling their products as part of the book.

The yoga videos is what you're talking.

About, with Dixie unabashedly selling their products. so, yeah, Delta was on the verge of starting her clothing line, or maybe she had already. it was the last time. October, I don't know. But Dixie plugged her yoga videos time or two.

Like, a few times.

Few times. And then they were both focused on weight in their books, but in just very different ways. so those were just some things that struck me, and I.

They both talked about parenting, too, because Delta talks about her doggies.

Yes. Yes, she did. And all the things that she did work that were quirky in 1998 are part and parcel to having a dog now. So.

Absolutely.

so, yeah, that's all I got. I swear it's my last category.

Let us know what you think about this week's Extra Sugar

All right, well, that wraps up this week's Extra Sugar. So let us know what you think about the book. maybe you read it when it came out. Maybe you decided to revisit it or read it for the first time with us this go round. Either way, we'd love to know what you think. Did we get all the categories right? Did we get all the. All the feedback right? Let us know. and then also let us know your suggestions for our next Sweet Tea and tv. Salina shaking her head. Don't let us know. Don't let us know unless it's good. We'd also love suggestions for our next book club. we're due for our next installment of Sweet Tea and TV Book Club at some point in the next season, so let us know. and other than that, you know the drill. You can follow us on social media, visit our site, send us an email, and tell all your friends about us. And that's it. That's this week's extra sugar.