Designing Women S7E6 - Mary Jo Shively: Spontaneity Manual Not Included

Justice for Mary Jo! That’s what we were yelling at the end of season 7. Mary Jo - and, in fact, Annie Potts - deserved so much more than the “Designing Women” writers gave her this season. Of course, there were some funny parts and a couple social commentaries but, for the most part, we veered into funhouse territory - just minus the fun. 

Come on y’all, let’s rip off the Band-aid and get into it! 

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Transcript

I just put a cough drop in so you can hear me hacking

>> Salina: Foreign. Hey, Nikki.

>> Nikki: Hey, Salina.

>> Salina: I'm sorry. I had a call. I don't even have a cough anymore, and I just put a cough drop in just so you could hear it clicking around on my teeth.

>> Nikki: I'm gonna hear it when I edit.

>> Salina: I'm sorry.

>> Nikki: This just.

>> Salina: I'm the worst. I've been pulling stuff for social media, and I can just hear me in the background just hacking so I'll always know what season it was just by my clickety clack and cough drop.

>> Nikki: Salina's six, season seven.

>> Salina: There you go. It really sums up everything, I think.

Sweet Tea had quite a few Mary Jo focused episodes this season

Well, welcome, everyone. Welcome, y'all, to Sweet Tea and tv. as we have already just said, season seven.

>> Nikki: Season seven.

>> Salina: Season seven. And we are at the Mary Jo episode. you ready for this?

>> Nikki: I think so.

>> Salina: I was gonna do a.

>> Nikki: Mary Jo would have appreciated that.

>> Salina: I think so.

>> Nikki: That sounds right up her alley. Yeah, I'm ready. We had quite a few Mary Jo focused episodes.

>> Salina: The most. It feels more than six seasons combined.

>> Nikki: I was gonna say that. And certainly more than Bernice and Carlene. So maybe we'll have more to talk about.

>> Salina: I have some things.

>> Nikki: So we had episode three, Mary Jo versus the Terminator. This is the one where Mary Jo really lets Julia have it. They're preparing to participate in a fashion show, and they get into it over Julia's, quote, school marm routine. And it happens because Julia, quote, lightly edits Mary Jo's letter to the school board about them trying to get rid of the sex ed program she helped set up back in season two. Then we have episode four, on the Road Again. In this episode, Mary Jo gets self conscious about not being more spontaneous. And that's because Quint, her son, likes staying with Ted because Ted's life is more exciting and fun. So she convinces Bernice and Julia to take off on take off to Nashville on a Thelma and Louise style adventure. Then we had episode 10, trial and error, which she shared with Anthony, but she felt like equal parts this episode, so we're giving it to her. So this is the one where she gets sued by her neighbor and Anthony represents her in court. Then we had episode 11, Too Dumb to Date, where we meet Craig, who I have a soft spot for. He is Mary Jo's new love interest, a beautiful male model who is, walking and somewhat talking proof that God does not give with both hands. He is not the sharpest crayon in the box, which the other women are super quick to notice. even Carlene, who I should also mention, starts a chain Letter situation in this episode.

>> Salina: It's a whole thing.

>> Nikki: It's a whole thing. then we had episode 13. Oh, dog. Poor dog. This is the episode that resolves our Brownie storyline.

>> Salina: Yes. A season seven high in a super.

>> Nikki: Sad way is what I had written next. So you and I approached that very differently.

>> Salina: Well, mine was sarcasm, thank God.

>> Nikki: in that episode, we also have a painful misunderstanding with Bernice, who fears that her storyline is going to get the Brownie treatment. She thinks the women are gonna get rid of her. Then we have Salina's favorite episode this season. I'm gonna go out on a limb and predict that it is episode 17, shovel off to Buffalo.

>> Salina: Simply the best. Simply the best. Very Tina Turner.

>> Nikki: We call it the infamous Elvis Shovel episode. it is the inspiration for this week's Extra Sugar. However, it is also an episode we both swore we'd never watch again.

>> Salina: Right? yeah. I hated it. And then I dug into it, so. Perfect. Does that say something about me psychologically? Yeah.

>> Nikki: Yes. Yes, it does. but probably something good. Yeah.

Did I miss any episodes this season? No, got them all

So before I get into her major plot points this season, did I miss any episodes?

>> Salina: No, got them all.

>> Nikki: So you and I, I think, both realized, we just alluded to it. We got a lot of Mary Jo this season, so we are not short on plot lines to talk about, but. But we also both noticed that lots of them were recycled from previous seasons. So this go round, she's participating in the fashion show. She was sort of an observer last time, but, this time there's a fashion show and she's in it. At the same time, she's fighting the school board, who has decided to take apart the AIDS education program she fought for in season two. so both of those things are happening in episode, three this season. so lots of repeats of storylines, lots of recycling. but we also had some random life related plot points this season. So Brownie comes back up again and really goes through it this season. And Mary Jo goes through it with her. She's neutered or he's neutered. It's a he. He's neutered in episode one of Human Bondage. And then by episode 13, he is no more. She also had a car situation in episode eight, Love Letters, where she totaled her station wagon, and got a new lease on life and a sports. she says, dump the front mobile. It's Miller time. So she's continuing to grow in life, including learning to be spontaneous. So that happens with her Nashville road trip, which, Salina, you noted Kind of feels like maybe a nod to something that happened in season three, which I didn't put together, but EP phone home. Where they go to Memphis.

>> Salina: Yes.

>> Nikki: Giving me the most. she also briefly. I'm not giving you the best setups.

>> Salina: No, it's wonderful.

>> Nikki: She briefly gets addicted to gambling. We know she has an addiction, active personality. And then she's elevated to practically sainthood after Elvis is unfortunately spotted in her shuffle. Then we have some relationship, plot lines I wanted to talk about. We get a continuation of the near empty nester experience. So we've got Claudia off at college, and Quint seems to be spending a disproportionate amount of time with Ted.

>> Salina: Did we ever hear Claudia's name this season?

>> Nikki: Claudia? I don't think. I don't think so.

>> Salina: All right. Someone can hold us accountable. But I feel like we only heard about Quint.

>> Nikki: I think at the end of season six, Mary Jo was preparing to go visit her at college or something. But, yeah, I don't think in season seven we heard about her.

>> Salina: Sorry, Claudia.

>> Nikki: Sorry, Claudia. We, also got her fighting on and off with Julia throughout the season. It's most noticeable, obviously, in episode three, but they spar throughout the season.

>> Salina: Really? It was a tough time.

>> Nikki: I think it must. So I was thinking specifically about the part in episode two where Mary Jo says Julia never participates in anything. She's just, like, very aggressively angry at Julia. throughout the whole season. There was something happening. we also get to see her briefly dating Joe Swanson from Family Guy, AKA Patrick Warburton, who, as we've already said, is not the sharpest tool in the shed. And then she gets sued by her neighbor. What were you gonna say?

>> Salina: AKA Putty.

>> Nikki: Yes.

>> Salina: From Seinfeld.

>> Nikki: Of course.

>> Salina: It's a big gap in Nikki's TV watching career. It's not her kind of humor.

>> Nikki: I don't know. I gotta give it a go. There was a. Maybe a Seinfeld super bowl commercial or something, probably. And I. It just. It makes me feel like it could be my kind of humor if I would just. But it seems like such a commitment. There was a lot of it.

>> Salina: Yeah. We've got a lot of commitments.

>> Nikki: So many. The most.

>> Salina: I think you're fine. If I were you, I would just skip all that at this point and go commit to curb. Curbed your. Curb your enthusiasm.

>> Nikki: Okay.

>> Salina: Yeah.

>> Nikki: You think I'm gonna like that?

>> Salina: I don't know. But it's 10 seasons, so.

>> Nikki: Also a commitment.

>> Salina: Yeah, also a commitment. But it's like HBO Shows. So it's not 22 episodes, it's like 10.

>> Nikki: That's true. Okay. I can handle that.

>> Salina: Yeah. I think you should test it out. I would do like later seasons.

>> Nikki: Okay.

Because it started in 2000, so I just think that feels really. Yeah. Now I know that. That person can rent a car

>> Salina: Because it started in 2000, so I just think that feels really. Because it is.

>> Nikki: Yeah.

>> Salina: Now I don't like to talk about that.

>> Nikki: Nope.

>> Salina: That person can rent a car. Now I know that.

>> Nikki: Another discussion for another day.

Uh, so Mary Jo. Mary Jo Seinfeld. So she dates Putty. I could have let that one go, but I'm not

>> Salina: so Mary Jo.

>> Nikki: Mary Jo Seinfeld.

>> Salina: Putty.

>> Nikki: Oh, I was gonna say yes. Okay. So she dates Putty. I was gonna say I'm gonna pause on Curb youb Enthusiasm till we get through Designing Women and then maybe I'll allow myself to get into it.

>> Salina: Oh, that's a super Southern show. So we could always tackle that.

>> Nikki: You know, the last relationship plot point was she got sued by her neighbor over a freezer. That didn't work.

>> Nikki: I could have let that one go, but I'm not going to.

>> Salina: Don't let it go.

>> Nikki: It was in my bullets. In my bullets.

>> Salina: I get it.

Mary Jo Ventures has been on the show for seven seasons now

>> Nikki: So we're calling our Mary Jo Ventures Spontaneity Manual not included.

>> Salina: Does this mean that we're ready to jump into character superlatives?

>> Nikki: Yes.

>> Salina: Can I just share one thing that we don't have a perfect fit for? But I just wanted to call out. We haven't done a lot of fashion this season.

>> Nikki: Oh, we have not.

>> Salina: But I had one and it was specifically for Mary Jo. I'm about to tear her to shreds.

>> Nikki: Perfect.

>> Salina: it's not her fault.

>> Nikki: No.

>> Salina: This is a writer issue, I think. I wanted to say, well, her and Julia both look so beautiful at the fashion show. And I absolutely loved Mary Jo's ice blue dress with the low slung back and the copper embellishment at the waist. She is a knockout.

>> Salina: So just wanted to give her her do.

>> Nikki: Yeah.

>> Salina: Before we talk about the character flaws that we injected in a very wonderful character that I've loved for no reason. Seven seasons. Yeah.

Nikki: I agree with your best and worst episode overall

so let's jump into our best and worst episode overall. What's your best, Nikki?

>> Nikki: so I really wanted to say Viva Las Vegas because that was truly my favorite Mary Jo performance with her addiction to gambling. But that storyline didn't feel juicy enough to warrant its place as the best episode of hers this season. So instead I'm gonna go with episode three, Mary Jo versus the Terminator.

>> Salina: Okay.

>> Nikki: So on IMDb this is the second highest rated episode by reviewers, for this season next to Of Human Bondage. And I think it might be for good Reason. So for me, most importantly, I feel like her character arc officially ended with this line. And as for your opinion, and let me make this perfectly clear, I think I speak for the majority. Sometimes we don't want to hear your opinion. Sometimes we don't care if you have an opinion. And sometimes. And maybe you want to write this down, sometimes your opinion is wrong. And the fact that Mary Jo, little timid Mary Jo, starting with season one, who couldn't have a difficult conversation with anyone, looked at Julia and said, that completes that storyline for me. She's done. She is officially the butterflies out of.

>> Salina: The cocoon at episode three. At episode three, we should have stopped there.

>> Nikki: Yes.

>> Salina: Okay.

>> Nikki: I think that's right.

>> Salina: I want to say a couple things. One, I agree with your argument.

>> Nikki: Thank you.

>> Salina: Two, you had a Southern Lil come out. That's really exciting for me. because everybody's always like, you're Southern. What about Nikki? She's Southern.

>> Nikki: I am. It's true. It's just buried deep in there somewhere.

>> Salina: Better at hiding it than some of us. And then three, sometime I would love for my argument to sway you. It will. I was listening back to something, and I was like, yeah, yeah. But I don't agree with that. And I was like, oh, come on, Nikki.

>> Nikki: That's not true. I say often, I'll allow it. And I've said, at least on one instance this season, in one instance this season, I said, I might have to rewatch that, because you may have convinced me.

>> Salina: I did. Yeah. I bet you you've rewatched it a million times.

>> Nikki: I think I did rewatch it. I think it was the. I do, actually. We both swore we wouldn't watch the Elvis shovel one again. I did rewatch it preparing for this. And that was where you said Bernice was so shiny and funny.

>> Salina: She. Yeah, she had some funny moments in that.

>> Nikki: I did rewatch it because you said that.

>> Salina: Look at that.

>> Nikki: That. So you swayed me.

>> Salina: I swayed you. How exciting.

>> Nikki: Oh, can I say one more thing about this episode?

>> Salina: Absolutely. It's your show.

>> Nikki: it was your show, too, so thank you. We'll collaborate on this one. I also thought in this next ep, in this episode, unlike the next one that I'm gonna talk about, she wasn't in the wrong here. In fact, I think she was right. She asked Julia to proofread her letter. She did not ask her to rewrite it. And Julia totally overstepped by rewriting it, but then further than that, by doubling down on her being smarter or better or What? And so I feel like that was one of the things I liked about this episode. Mary Jo wasn't completely in the wrong.

>> Salina: No, I agree.

There's a lot of hardcore Julia defenders on Twitter. And you can see on social media

>> Nikki: and then the last point that I'll make is that it doesn't hurt that this episode is where they remind us that they refer to Julia's previous fashion show experience as Full Moon Friday, which, I thought was hilarious. And this is the episode where BJ gets her billboard and gets all those terrible calls from, Joe Q. Public, which I said I loved so much.

>> Salina: Yes. I mean, I like Carlene being the bodyguard.

>> Nikki: Yes. She's delightful.

>> Salina: I would let her be my bodyguard.

>> Nikki: 100. Yeah. Yeah. I try. I trust her with my life.

>> Salina: Absolutely. 100.

>> Nikki: Especially if I wanted to get hurt.

>> Salina: I was gonna say for Julia. I agree that Julia was in the wrong. And actually, I hope this doesn't make us lose our clean podcast writing, but I think she's been a real butthole.

>> Salina: Oh, it.

>> Nikki: She was. Yeah, it'll come up. I think in our Julia episode, she's.

>> Salina: Like, for every time that I'm like, yeah. And I'm like, standing up and cheering, there's a lot of condescension in the very next breath.

>> Nikki: Yeah.

>> Salina: So it's. It's a little bit of a yo yo situation, I think.

>> Nikki: Just people in general, you know?

>> Salina: Yeah. And you can see on social media, like, there's a lot of hardcore Julia defenders. And I'm like, I think you're forgetting some episodes. Episodes, though.

>> Nikki: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Salina: But they're. They're not as in the weeds as we are.

>> Nikki: Oh boy.

>> Salina: Some of them are, but not all of them. But some of them. Some of them are.

>> Nikki: Some of them could give us a run for our money, I think.

>> Salina: I mean, quoting lines and. And I wouldn't go toe to toe with them. You know what I'm saying? my best was episode 11, Too Dumb to date.

>> Nikki: Oh.

>> Salina: I think it might a bold choice.

>> Nikki: If I may say so myself.

>> Salina: Yes. I think this one might be my favorite because of, putty. Craig Patrick Warburn. That's right.

>> Nikki: Joe Swanson.

>> Salina: Well, I really enjoyed the bit about their movie night. Her favorite was Casablanca. His is Ernest Goes to Camp. Same really. I'm more of an Ernest goes to Gel kind of gal.

>> Nikki: Oh.

>> Nikki: See, and I'm Ernest Scared, stupid.

>> Salina: Oh, yes. I have our things literally scared me as a child.

>> Nikki: Oh, it is scary.

>> Salina: It's snotty.

>> Nikki: It is.

>> Salina: Yeah, it is.

>> Nikki: It's very graphic. It really in a like, scary child way.

>> Salina: Yes, it got me.

>> Nikki: I'm trying to. I think I've seen Ernest Goes to Camp.

>> Salina: There's one more. It's really good.

>> Nikki: Yeah, maybe I should watch that one.

>> Salina: I mean, I don't even think I could survive these movies now, but when I was like four, yeah, these were my.

>> Nikki: I will say I was like 14 and loved Ernest.

>> Salina: M. Okay.

>> Nikki: But we were sheltered children.

>> Salina: Same. Really nice. I have like three jokes in my head that I'm gonna save for, when we're not recording.

I thought the end where he breaks up with her is a fun twist

so I also just thought that this one gave us some interesting things to unpack around relationship stereotypes. And I'll talk more on that later. I thought the end where he breaks up with her is a fun twist. He sees that she's struggling with how different they are intellectually. But it was also sweet and kind of sad how he essentially thanked her for not using him. That was sad.

>> Nikki: Yeah.

>> Salina: And I mean more astute than, you know. And I think it. That was a little bit of a gender flip too, I think. Against the stereotype that a man is just like, okay to be used for sex, you know? it was his parting gift though, the smiley face balloons that just really set the whole thing off for me. It was, what a weird choice. And I don't know who came up with that.

>> Nikki: Don't worry, be happy.

>> Salina: Yeah, totally. The chain letter plot, you mentioned that earlier. Definitely a time capsule. But I did think it was funny at the end when Mary Jo tricked Anthony into taking the chain letter, passing it off as a breakup letter. It's pretty good.

>> Nikki: I forgot about that twist. I watched this episode twice, I think, and I forgot about that twist the second time. I must have only been like partly paying attention or something. So when she came in and said that, something about the breakup and it was, she was making it up, so that she could confuse them and like make them think he broke up with her in a letter. And I was like, that's not at all. What is this? A huge inconsistency error of the show. And then I was like, oh, that's right. Never mind. So what happens when you watch them at 5:30 in the morning?

>> Salina: Well, that's when I'll be watching Women of the House. yeah. How about your worst episodes?

>> Nikki: For the record, I will buy that as a best episode this season. You brought me on board with your argument.

>> Salina: Oh, wonderful. Thank you.

>> Nikki: Will you stop whining now?

>> Salina: Probably not. I'll try.

>> Nikki: My worst episode is like hands down, episode 10, trial and error.

>> Salina: Okay.

>> Nikki: So over this series, throughout this entire series, we've had Mary Jo do silly things. By the end, she usually comes to her senses. So I was thinking back on it. Let's think about Big Hoss and Little False in season three. So she got that inheritance check from her uncle and decided to use it on breast implants. Not the silly part. The silly part was the way she acted when she wore the trial implants. Like she got really way too big for her britches or her bra or whatever you want to say.

>> Salina: Yes, but that was funny.

>> Nikki: It was funny. It was funny. But she was like a little ugly to some people and a little unkind. But in the end she decides, okay, I see, I see the error of my ways. I'm going to, I don't know, buy those picture phones or whatever for her friends. So she sees the error of her ways. Or season five, episode 17, maybe baby, she decides she wants a baby and she spends the entire episode trying to, trick JD or convince jd, I should say, who just happened to come into town for a visit. Unfortunately for him, when she's going through all this, she's trying to convince him or trick him into being the daddy. But after a lot of silliness, she finally comes around to it being this, like, weird half baked idea that she was really pushing on him, unfairly. So I bring all that up because that's what made Trial and Error so hard for me to watch. We didn't get any of those redeeming things from her in this episode. So, in fact, anytime someone tried to suggest she was harsh on Anthony, she deflected. She said it was his fault for going over the top in the court. It was the neighbor's fault for suing her. It was everyone else's fault but her own. And it didn't feel true to her character. And it certainly was not an enjoyable watch.

>> Salina: No, I think we know her as more, of an empath. So, yeah, I just. That was just totally bizarre to me. I didn't get it.

>> Nikki: She loves Anthony way too much to be that ugly to him. She should have been way more supportive of him.

>> Salina: Yeah, it's hard for me because I could have called a few of these the worst.

The pacing of this episode was pretty good, actually. And you know how I'm about pacing. I just hit all the marks

Did, you want to say anything else about that episode?

>> Nikki: No.

>> Salina: So mine M was shovel off to Buffalo. I'm not going to sit here and like, relive things that we've talked about a few times. You know, I do want to say that the funny Bernice moment for me was like her selling the tickets out Front.

>> Nikki: Okay.

>> Salina: You know, that was pretty good. Other than that, I don't know, the bit about Mary Jo becoming like a miracle worker. It was just weird. I know that was a thing at the time. You know, I don't know if people younger than us really even understand that that was a thing that popped up. I don't even understand what was happening then, really.

>> Nikki: But I think it had to do with that whole, Tammy Faye Baker, like, evangelical universe that was happening.

>> Salina: Yeah, I guess we just went a little far. We teetered, and toppled over the edge, one might say. I just felt like the whole thing was very unearned, despite the fact that that was a thing in the culture at the time. And you know how I'm about pacing. It just gets me every time. God knows, every time I write a sitcom, it's perfectly paid. Every time, every time. I just hit all the marks.

>> Nikki: I've never complained about a single sitcom. You've written one.

>> Salina: I just, you know, am the best. You are my sitcom writing, so. But yeah, the pacing was. And then again, and I'm starting to think this is going to come up a few times for me, the really intense fighting between her and Julia. This one really stuck out to me. Mary Jo palmed Julia in the forehead and said something like, I heal your bad attitude. I mean, again, another episode where I do not think Julia was shining, per se, but if someone palmed me in the forehead. Yeah, I'm coming unglued.

>> Nikki: Yeah.

>> Salina: You know, you know how you hit your head on, like, your car? Do you just like, rage? Ah, instantly. Yeah, it's like it hits some part of your, like, frontal cortex or something and you just like.

>> Nikki: It's infuriating. Mine is the stove. The, what do you call the hood that's over the stove. I hit my head on that a lot. yeah, I come unglued. What does that feel like, to come unglued?

>> Salina: To reach the vent hood?

>> Nikki: Oh, painful.

>> Salina: Like six feet painful after I get out of ladder.

>> Nikki: To be fair, mine's pretty low. Yeah, mine's pretty low. Okay, so it hurts.

>> Salina: Okay, I'm gonna test that, theory on the way out.

>> Nikki: Okay, do it. It hurts.

Mary Jo's inability to hold her liquor and her addictive personality remain favorite moments

>> Salina: So let's try and. Let's try and talk about some positive things. what are your up to? Three funniest moments.

>> Nikki: Nothing. There's nothing funny about marriage. One thing that would be okay, I loved the general playing up. Mary Jo's inability to hold her liquor and her addictive personality. Those remain some of my Favorite moments on the show. So calling out episode one of Human Bondage, she gets hammered on, like, one Nilla Killa, or whatever they called it. Manila Killa, whatever they called it at BJ's house. And then in episode six, Viva Las Vegas, when she discovers her proclivity for craps and the whole world for her friends is crumbling around her and she's practicing her dice throwing. Love it. Ah, episode 11, Too Dumb to Date. I love that episode. But Patrick Warburton is so delightful. So I really loved all of their interactions. But the one where, she says, He says to her, I'm not as smart as you. She tries to make him feel a little bit better, and he says, it's okay. It all evens out. I'm in much better shape than you.

>> Salina: It's not true.

>> Nikki: It's not true. Well, he may be, He may be more physically fit than her. We can't tell from looking at them. We'd have to put him out and make him run or do a weightlifting competition.

>> Salina: See who jiggles more.

>> Nikki: No. See who's faster. No. physical fitness and physical appearance are different from one another. So she could be in great shape. Or not.

>> Salina: Or not. But probably.

>> Nikki: Probably. Yeah.

There was a meltdown over corn on the cob in episode 12

So then my last one was episode 12, the Odyssey. I think I maybe mentioned this at another point this season, but her slow descent into crazy is delightful. She starts the episode sort of cynical about this whole trip, like it never works out well when we take a trip. But by the end, she's completely unraveled and breaks down over like it was somebody brought. I think BJ went out to find food and couldn't find corn on the cob or something. There was some sort of meltdown over corn on the cob, and I thought that was very funny.

>> Salina: Who among us hasn't had a breakdown over.

>> Nikki: I did it just this morning.

>> Salina: Yeah, you go to a fair, I expect buttered corn on the cob with lots of salt. I don't see it.

>> Nikki: I don't think that's too much to ask.

>> Salina: I don't think it is either. Someone who's been missing a microwave for almost three months now and hasn't had a bag of popcorn in a really long time. No. Yeah. Yeah. I got a new microwave. It doesn't work.

>> Nikki: Oh, no. I don't think I realized you didn't have a microwave.

>> Salina: Well, I have one.

>> Nikki: Well, now it doesn't work.

>> Salina: Yeah, it's been a whole thing anyways. so. It's so weird we don't have one thing of overlap in our funny line.

>> Nikki: That's funny.

Anthony Rapp: How about up to 3 cringiest or most obnoxious moments

>> Salina: So just another funny thing. Funny, funny thing. So episode seven, fools Rush in. We get an amazing Julia impression from Mary Jo. She, like, is mouthing it as I think she says it, and then later on mouths along with Julia. She says it. Have you just completely lost your mind? And then proceeds, to do it exactly at the same time, followed by, what is wrong with you people? And it's, it's pretty good.

>> Nikki: That's funny.

>> Salina: It's like she's seen it a time or two.

>> Nikki: A time or two. She knows this woman a little bit.

>> Salina: Episode five, screaming Passages. Mary Jo says about Julia going through menopause. Julia says she's got this under control, but what happens if sometimes we go head to head? I've got pms. She's got hot flash. There's liable to be nothing left but two pairs of pumps and a little pile of ashes, which I don't know how to work that into an epitaph, but I'm going to.

>> Nikki: We'll figure it out, right?

>> Salina: Episode two, Sex and the Single Woman. When everyone reveals who they're ashamed to be attracted to, which I just thought was really funny. Like, everyone's on in that episode, but Mary Jo says, jerry Lewis, which we have again mentioned this, but along with this tidbit, I hate him so much. It excites me. And if you've been a lot around and alive long enough, you get it.

>> Nikki: You get it. So.

>> Salina: And then I went one too far and did episode nine, the vision thing. And Mary Jo says, come on, Anthony. That's what marriage is all about. Constant pressure. That is funny, y'all, because it is also true.

>> Nikki: Some kind of pressure. Nikki's laughing maniacally.

>> Salina: And then there's tears. That's happened a few times this season. So, how about up to 3 cringiest or most obnoxious moments?

>> Nikki: So all of her behavior in episode 10, trial and error, was cringy. and then there was that time in episode 17 when she almost got into the deal with Jade to sell her Elvis shovel to people. That whole situation was pretty cringey. But what I actually can't decide is if it's more cringy that she considered the deal seriously or that she was going to give Jade 50%.

>> Salina: So, pretty high, but maybe 50. Does 50 sound good, though, when you weren't planning on making any money?

>> Nikki: No. 25 sounds way better.

>> Salina: This is why I don't. I'm not a good wheeler and dealer.

>> Nikki: Yeah, no, 50 is a lot. It was Mary Jo's shovel. If Mary Jo hadn't found it. She bought it in the first place. So she has to offset the price of buying the shovel in the first place. 50 was a lot.

>> Salina: That's. That's a lot.

>> Nikki: So that made me cringe. But pretty hard.

>> Salina: I see that you seem very upset.

>> Nikki: about this made up deal.

>> Salina: I'm gonna. I don't know if we don't necessarily have to go to one to one, but I'm gonna say that my. My one cringy moment. The rest are gonna fall under obnoxious.

>> Nikki: Well, I'm done with cringy moments. So you have at it.

>> Salina: Oh great. And you don't have anything else?

Mary Jo accidentally bumps into Ted in episode 20 of Lying Game

Okay. So her meet cute with Ted. This get mentions in episode 20, the Lying Game. Don't worry, I wrote it down. So you just revel in it.

>> Nikki: Okay.

>> Salina: More time. She says that Ted and I met in a very romantic way. He accidentally bumped his arm into me. He said, if your heart is as soft as your body, I'm sure you'll forgive me. And I said, if the rest of your body is as hard as your elbow. Here's my phone number. I.

>> Nikki: I guffawed. I thought it was hilarious.

>> Salina: Did you?

>> Nikki: I had forgotten that line until again in a rewatch. And I was like, oh, that doesn't feel very Mary Jo.

>> Salina: It. Well, it's now taken me 10 times to realize that it's not as dirty as I thought it was. But every time I'm like, ew.

>> Nikki: But it is.

>> Salina: a hard body is different than.

>> Nikki: Oh.

>> Salina: Yeah. So.

>> Nikki: Yep.

The next thing moving on is what I'm gonna call the undoing of Mary Jo

>> Salina: The next thing moving on is what I'm gonna call the undoing of Mary Jo. Which is what I sort of thought about season seven as. So have been wanting to talk about this all season. Like, just what did they do to her? You know, we. You already talked about this. You nailed it right on the head. There's been this. But they could have stopped at episode three. There's been this really clear trajectory for her across the seasons, moving her from timid to someone who has been placed in situations that have made her learn to stand up for herself. and we've seen that happen time and time again. But somewhere we took a weird turn. It feels like we've entered obnoxious territory. And these were the ones that caught my attention. I, In the Is right from the season premiere and of Human Bondage, I was a little wincy here. Like, I'm not sure I was prepared for her particular energy at BJ's she said eat my shorts a number of times to where I was just like, kick. I was. It was, like, not egregious, but I was starting to teeter.

>> Nikki: Did I ever tell you that was a cut line? There was, like, an eat my shorts reference early in the episode. That set it up as a runner. I'm not saying it makes it better. I'm just saying it sets it up as a runner for the rest of the episode.

>> Salina: Okay. It is also something that people said.

>> Nikki: Though, for sure, a lot.

>> Salina: Episode six and seven, it's like, all your favorites. I'm sorry. It's fine.

>> Nikki: It's fine.

>> Salina: I'm. I'm pretty sure. So, like, six. Definitely seven. We had overplayed the hand with the gambling addiction, but I agree it started off really funny, but then it went on, like, several minutes too long. So I think we just leaned into it just a touch too much. Episode 10, trial and error. obviously a low point for you. It was just a really bad look for her. Didn't love that. And just the dismissiveness. I. I just can't get beyond it. The wedding redux in episode 14. The. I don't. In the B plot. I don't think we've really talked about this, but Quint gets a girlfriend.

>> Nikki: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

>> Salina: The girlfriend's mom, Mary Jo, is, like, highly suspicious of her the whole time, and she keeps dropping all these stereotypical guesses about who she is, how she's obviously like, an exotic dancer or something. Like something that's really like. Like, where did this come from?

>> Nikki: Yeah.

>> Salina: And all very, like, stigmatizing and just rude.

>> Nikki: Hateful.

>> Salina: And just downright hateful. And, like, it turns out she's actually like, a,

>> Nikki: Minister.

>> Salina: Yes. And when that part's funny and it works well into the plot line, but, like, as a single mother, to have that kind of judgment on another single mother. Really strange and, like, a weird character choice. And then, you know, back to episode 17 and shovel off to Buffalo this. It was an extra gut punch that they turned her fully obnoxious when she. When she also believes that she's a miracle worker.

>> Nikki: Yeah.

>> Salina: A gut punch on top of just a bad episode.

>> Nikki: Yeah.

>> Salina: And, Yeah. That face palming. I'm not gonna forget that anytime soon. I think it's flashed in my head about four times every time I'm like.

>> Nikki: Nope, you know, that's pretty terrible. I can't get past her, the way she treated Anthony. So I haven't made it past that. So it's.

>> Salina: Yeah. And then. Okay. I got a couple more episode 20.

>> Nikki: Let's just keep going.

>> Salina: Gone with the whim. They're fighting again. Mary Jo and Julia. And I didn't love that. I'm not gonna love it. And then I thought turning Mary Jo into Horny Scarlet was a choice. I just didn't understand, like, why, like, what we were doing there. I don't know if that was, like, play up the Craig episode or something, but I. I don't know. It's like, she's a very smart, savvy business person, and, you know, and everybody else gets to show a little bit of that side. And then for them to do, like, m. Almost more of, like, a damsel in distress, I just thought that was an odd choice.

>> Nikki: Again, it doesn't fit with this character arc that we've had for her, and it's for me.

I think they overused Salina this season on the show

>> Salina: I was actually going to say another point where that's the case is, going back to episode four, on the Road again. So she's needing to practice spontaneity, but revisiting season three, where they go to Graceland. She is like a little kid, so excited. Can't wait to get in there. She wants to go to Stuckey. She wants some. A pecan log. You know, she wants to do all these things. And so now she's pinned up, like, what's. What's really happening.

>> Nikki: She got old. Season three was a long time ago. You get comfortable.

>> Salina: That's right. She's still, like, five years younger than us.

>> Nikki: Yeah, that hurts. She had some time with Ted. She settled into kids and getting them off to school in college. I don't know. She's got old Salina.

>> Salina: She's. She's in them sheets, them spreadsheets. Oh, yeah. So I think I was, like, trying to figure out what's going on here, and I don't know, I landed. I don't know. It goes back to that whole conversation about the writers this season. They knew the characters. They were well studied in the characters, but they just. I don't think we're able to capture them in the. The same way as Pam Norris and lbt. It's like a fun house mirror version of Mary Jo, but, like, not.

>> Nikki: Not fun. Yeah. Just a house.

>> Salina: Yeah.

>> Nikki: A house of pain.

>> Salina: A house of pain. And then in Cards and then in other episodes, we just did kind of push her completely to the side, which is what we did in seasons one through five. I don't know. I just. Again, I'm, so glad that Annie Potts has young Sheldon. and then the spin off that they're doing now because I think that she's very talented, very funny, and I just feel like my last stand for that woman is that she's clearly hilarious in this show and very underused. And now they overused her this season.

>> Nikki: Right.

>> Salina: And didn't use her.

>> Nikki: Right, right. So we just can't get what we want.

>> Salina: I just. I'm the Goldilocks of Mary Jo, I guess.

Episode four of the show is about dating expectations and spontaneity

how about most socially or culturally important or relevant plot?

>> Nikki: It's so funny. I said this a second ago and I wasn't, I wasn't connecting the dots that this was going to be my socially or culturally important plot. but her struggle with spontaneity in episode four, on the Road, again, felt relatable to me. It truly does. Like, you go from feeling like, you know, a 21 year old who can do whatever they want with no consequences to, in a matter of just a couple years, your body turns on you, your brain turns on you, and all you want to do is crawl under the covers and go to bed. And so that was relatable to me that she'd be in this position where just like, getting in the car and going. She crossed state lines for me. Sometimes leaving the house after dark is like a whole adventure.

>> Salina: When you came to Atlanta, I thought you were gonna, defriend me.

>> Nikki: It's too much. It's just too much. I thought when you moved to Atlanta, I was gonna defriend you. So we've made it work for about six months, but I'm, So we're on borrowed time here, kid. Borrowed time.

>> Salina: Well, no, here first.

>> Nikki: It's so sad how it happens. And it really, I think, silly to turn this episode into, like, something very, like, introspective and thinking about that, but watching her try to. To realize that about herself and realize, like, whoa, what's happening here? I gotta deprogram this piece of my life that was relatable to me, felt socially important.

>> Salina: Well, just because I didn't think it fit with the character they had built to this point doesn't mean that it's not relatable. It's true, you know?

>> Nikki: Yeah.

>> Salina: and that just might feel particularly relevant right now.

>> Nikki: Yeah.

>> Salina: You know, life has a way of just kicking you in the shin, which.

>> Nikki: I was gonna say in the butt, but again, you're trying to keep this.

>> Salina: Clean podcast trying so hard. And mine would have been dirtier.

>> Nikki: So you're fine.

>> Salina: Huh? Okay. I have two thoughts. My. On the face of it, I would have picked Mary Jo versus the Terminator in episode three because there is that dismantling.

>> Nikki: Oh, right, right.

>> Salina: Of the HIV education thing.

>> Nikki: Right.

>> Salina: But the thing is, is, you know, it was more of a plot device this time. Unlike in season two, when that whole thing gets. The groundwork gets laid there. I mean, we didn't really use it as an educational or awareness opportunity. Opportunity. In. In fact, it's. It's really just a brief mention, a non factor. So for that reason, while that, in my opinion, should have been probably the one I'm going to pick episode 1111 Too Dumb to Date. Well, I'm just really in that Too dumb to date. But going back to what I said, hey, there he is in all his glory. But it's the gender flip again from this season. We've done it a couple of times. Times. This time it's about dating expectations. I mentioned I was going to come back to it. I liked we're there. I like to live up to my promises when I can.

>> Nikki: So I never feel disappointed by you.

>> Salina: It's a big deal. Well, that's not true. but when Mary Jo dates, Craig and he's like a commercial model, you know, there's this whole thing about her dating him for his looks. And it brings up that whole conversation of whether women can date someone solely for their looks when they don't really like or respect their mind. So this is a position that is stereotypically held for men, you know, And I do think this would have been especially inconceivable when this initially aired back in the early 90s. So we just typically tend to think of women as less visually stimulated. And there is, I think, science behind that. Sure. some psychology behind that. And yet I hear that women are still sexual beings with needs and desires too, and that they have eyeballs sometimes. So I just think it's interesting anytime a show wants to give that a closer examination. I don't know that I came out anywhere with that, except for to say, that's a thing.

>> Nikki: That's a thing. That's a thing.

Would you like to scale this thing? Rate it. Would you like. I would, I would. Scale and rate it

>> Salina: And on that note, would you like to scale this thing? Rate it. Scale and rate it. Would you like.

>> Nikki: We have. We scaled it and we're coming back down now.

>> Salina: that's good.

>> Nikki: I would, I would. my rating scale is craps table catastrophes.

>> Salina: Okay, that's good.

Dixie: Mary Jo verged on annoying this season

>> Nikki: While we were talking, I took the score down. Okay. You had so many compelling examples of how frustrating this character was this season. It did ruin her. So I had 3.75 out of five. I marked it down to a three. So Mary Jo is one of our OGs from season one. We cannot turn on her, but we also cannot pretend like this was a shining season for her. she verged on annoying, which you just mentioned throughout the season. If not like fully just crossing the line. and that really hit me as I reflected on my notes for this episode. Looking back on in particular, again, I'll just bring up trial and error, but looking back on some of those not so bright moments for her character throughout the season, they really did her dirty. And it's such a shame because this is our last time with her and it's not how I wanted to remember it.

>> Salina: I know. So what about you? I. I gave this one a 2.5 out of 5. Unrecognizably aggressive Mary Jo's. I will tell you that I had two big X's here on this scale.

>> Nikki: Oh.

>> Salina: Until this morning.

>> Nikki: Perfect.

>> Salina: I was like, I gotta come up with something. And I just had nothing. Which I also think is very telling.

>> Nikki: Yeah.

>> Salina: To be honest. So I. I just. I couldn't bear to give her anything lower than that. I will say it every time I get the chance. I really love the character of Mary Jo. I always have and I always will. But, you know, I just can't this season. It just wasn't the right tone. I can put that aside, though, for this exercise, because I've just said it enough. This is about the trajectory of her final season. And from that perspective, I think we're still looking at a pretty low score. She's fighting with Julia a lot. She's got a gambling addiction. She totals her station wagon. She gets sued by her neighbor, dumped by Craig. She didn't even respect him. She asked to put Brownie down. She gets embarrassed on TV when her stint at St. Hood falls apart. However, like the rest of the gang, we at least know that she still has a job at the finale. So that's good news. But I'm not sure we really have anything else to report on her, you know? Now, it wasn't all bad news. If you look at it from the other side, the Nashville trip reacquainted her with spontaneity. Kinda. You could argue she's doing a better job at standing up to Julia, which you did, and I think you did a lovely job of that.

>> Nikki: Thank you.

>> Salina: You brought me around. And she's learning to deal with the forthcoming empty nest syndrome. And she briefly became a local celebrity. So I think it's just all about perspective.

>> Nikki: Perspective.

>> Salina: Yeah.

>> Nikki: It's true. That's what you. That's what I always hear you say. It's all about perspective.

>> Salina: Somebody probably says that. I probably coined that.

>> Nikki: It's probably. You invented it.

>> Salina: I'm a big inventor, honestly.

>> Nikki: Was that it? that's it. You're gonna invent some thoughts for our next episode, which will be our episode about Julia's season seven escapades.

>> Salina: That's good, because I had the wrong name in mine, so.

>> Nikki: Oh, good.

>> Salina: Yeah.

>> Nikki: Do I have the right name?

>> Salina: You do.

>> Nikki: Perfect.

>> Salina: Wonderful. I. And I have thoughts about Julia already.

>> Nikki: I have a lot. Yeah.

>> Salina: Less about her. Extra sugar. Still working on it. Just a little snippet.

>> Nikki: It's all coming together.

>> Salina: Oh.

>> Nikki: Because our. That Extra Sugar is going to be about Dixie Carter's, memoir, autobiography, book.

>> Salina: It's Opinions.

>> Nikki: Yeah, it's well named. That's a lot of opinions. A lot of opinions. Some hot takes.

>> Salina: Oh, Dixie.

There are several ways you can support the SweetTVPod podcast

>> Nikki: Real hot takes. Yeah.

>> Salina: Everything's probably a hot take when it's from 96, for sure. Or whatever year it was.

>> Nikki: For sure.

>> Salina: Yeah, we'll get there.

>> Nikki: We'll get there. So, we'd love everyone to follow along with us and engage. We're on Instagram and Facebook. SweetTVTV. TikTok @SweetTVPod. We're on YouTube. SweetTV7371. You can email us SweetTVPod Gmail.com and our website is www.sweettv.com. there are several ways you can support the show. You can tell your family and friends about us, rate or review the podcast, wherever you listen. Then you can visit the. The Support Us tab on the web page for other ways to support us, and then come back Thursday for extra sugar, which we've already alluded is going to be spectacular. Para spectacular.

>> Salina: Yes. We might be calling this one toast ghosts and UFOs. Oh, my. We'll see.

>> Nikki: See what makes it to the recording.

>> Salina: We'll see. All right, Nikki. Well, you know what that means.

>> Nikki: What does it mean, Salina?

>> Salina: No, it just means. All right, bye, y'all. bye.