Special Episode: DW Meets Old Hollywood - A Crossover Episode with Front Row Classics

We are so excited to present our first-ever, Sweet Tea & TV special guest, Brandon, from Front Row Classics. He’s a knower-of-all-things old Hollywood. A connoisseur of classic films. And, luckily for us, a Designing Women appreciator. 

In this episode, we chat with Brandon about his favorite DW memories, his thoughts on the sometimes-maligned later seasons of the show, the plethora of classic film references that have popped up through the years on Designing Women, and we even lured him into a silly, ChatGPT-powered game, re-imagining the cast through the lens of vintage camera. 

Come on y’all, let’s get into it! 

Or listen on Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music.

Transcript

Special Episode: DW Meets Old Hollywood - A Crossover Episode with Front Row Classics

Hey, Nikki. Hey, y'all. And welcome to Sweet Tea and tv. We are excited to welcome a very special guest today, Brandon Davis from the podcast Front Row Classics, which is part of NPR Illinois Community Voices. Welcome, Brandon.

Hey, Nikki. Salina, thanks so much for having me.

We, might be way more excited than you are. We are thrilled about this.

Well, that makes me happy. Thank you.

Well, we thought that it would be great for our listeners to hear directly from you a little bit about Front Row Classics and what that's all about.

Yeah. So Front Row Classics, it's part of a bigger podcast network called the Front Row Network, here in Springfield, Illinois, where I live. it was started by a friend of mine from college. but we have about, I would say four or five different shows here on our network. I'm one of them. But, we have a show called beyond the Mouse, which is all about Disney, Disney films, Disney parks, all of that. We have a show called Front Row Flashbacks, which is about 80s 90s films. we have shows called Guilty Pleasures, about horrible movies that are still fun. Ah. So a lot of different shows here on the network. But m. I started, I started doing this about a month into the, network. So I. It was like July of 2015. So I've been doing it a little over nine years now. but. But no, it's just, it's just a great way to, get to talk classic film. Most of my episodes are discussing movies with people like Nikki and Salina, which you, will hear on my feed at some point. But, no, I also get to interview film, historians. I've gotten to interview, the hosts of Turner Classic Movies. I've gotten to interview some wonderful authors and some people who are actually in the movies. So it's just, it's fun. You never know what's going to turn up, I guess.

Yeah. And I'll just say too, that, like, you know, obviously we've tuned in for some episodes. Not together. We do a lot together, but we listen to podcasts along. but one, thing that I really have enjoyed about a few of the episodes I've heard is like the multi generational approach. So being able to hear how it hits for someone who's a millennial and then someone who's, you know, Gen Z or whatever and just getting an idea because some things will just so they hit so different generationally, where if like, for someone who's younger, they're like, I don't get it. What's the problem?

You know, I told Salina I Listened to your haunting episode. Oh, you did, like, three generations of people in the episode. So you. And then the person that you were interviewing and then me as the listener, and you guys were talking about the haunting, and so you had a different memory of the movie than the person you were interviewing. Did. He watched it sort of in theaters. You watched it, later in life.

Right.

You guys talked about the 1999 adaptation. And as soon as you mentioned, I was like, oh, I love that movie. And you guys were like, it's pretty terrible. That's my generation.

That's funny. Well, and I'm not someone who totally hates remakes, but when you. When you watch the original, compared to that one. Yeah, that's hard. M. Oh. Oh, it's so good, Nikki. You would love it. But. But yeah, I appreciate that aspect of my show too. I have a lot of different, Have a lot of different guests, and it's. It's fun to talk about how you discover things. You know, I'm. I'm 37, so I grew up in the, you know, coming of age, learning about classic film, mid late 90s, early 2000s. So that. That was the golden age of home video. So I had. I had VHS DVD at my disposal. So, it's interesting for me to talk to people because I do a lot of local theater, so I act with a lot of kids, I like to call them in their late teens and 20s, and how they find stuff now through street. You know, it's. It's a whole different world for me of how they discover things. So it's. It is interesting.

I don't have the excuse of generations because I'm older than you. I just have the excuse of majority.

Well, I mean, I was. I was an oddity, though. I mean, there weren't too many growing up in a small Illinois town. There weren't too many other, kids who could say their favorite movie was Casa Bl. So it's just.

But you know what? That's pretty great.

Well, no, I. Well, no, I say as you. As you get older, your friends find your classic movie fandom interesting, and they don't find it nerdy like they did in high school. They find it interesting. And what. And they want to ask you questions now.

Sure. Now you're insightful and wise.

m. So I thought, too, that it might be interesting for listeners to know how we found each other. I don't know if you know this or not, and I don't know how you would, because it's mainly been the two of us who have been interacting over Instagram. But I think that Nikki had found you before we had really discovered each other in preparing for an episode that we did about to kill a mock. To Kill a Mockingbird.

Oh, really? Wow.

So at the same time that I think we may have been messaging each other, she had already listened to your podcast and so I thought you might think that was funny.

Oh, that's great. No, yeah, that was fun. Yeah, we, yeah, interviewed, I interviewed Mary Badham who played Scout. Gosh, when was that? That was 2022 maybe. Yeah, January. Yeah, that was. I still had my co host Eric at the time who, who, is a dad of teenager, so he doesn't have much time to podcast anymore. So, So, But. But. No, it's. But. But yeah, that was, that was a great episode. But yeah, I' discovered it that way.

That's so funny.

That was our 100th episode together.

Oh, let's see.

There you go.

It was great. To Kill a Mockingbird was great. I don't know why I keep. I told you, like, not a black and white film watcher, but I watched To Kill a Mockingbird. I watched it so many times just because I wanted to. I just really liked that. So it's. It's all coming together for me. Salina. The pieces are finally coming together.

And then, Brandon, you. You cut. You kind of stumbled onto us on Instagram. if you wanted to say just a piece about that, I know we kind of just talked about it on the episode.

Yeah, yeah, no, I, It's interesting because I think I. Yeah, I found you on Instagram. I grew up watching Designing Women because it's my mom's favorite show. And so I just. I saw you all had posted something. I don't even remember how I found it. But, but then I noticed you all, you know, talk more about the south in general. And so, getting to talk to, getting to hear your perspective on that. I was born in East Point, Georgia, and I have relatives in Savannah because my dad was born and raised there. So even though I lived in the Midwest all my life, I have such a Southern connection. So it was. It was cool to hear that come through in a podcast. So I think I. And then I reached out to you several months ago and we've just been chatting and then finally came up with the idea for this.

Yeah. And so again, we're just so excited to have you here. for. Again, also for listeners, we did just record an episode for Front Row Classics where We Talked about the 1949 Southern Romantic Noir drama, so many things. Flamingo Road, starring Joan Crawford. that was a really fun talk. And so we hope that you will turn into front row classics, not only for that episode, but other great episodes, especially if you are a classic movie fan. You all have covered so much and so much good stuff.

Well, thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah, it's been a ride. I had no idea it would take me to some place. I've gotten to go to the Turner Classic Movies Film Festival for the last two years in la. I've gotten to interview some incredible people. And so, yeah, it's. It's amazing. I had no idea this little podcast idea would take off the way it has, but I'm enjoying the ride.

Well, and we're hearing all kinds of very interesting nuggets about you. So I know we have to say Designing Women focused, but I want to learn a lot about you.

Now.

Before we talk about the, our ladies of the hour, if you will, I did want to say, funnily enough, that I'm actually like my family. Half of my family is from the Midwest. They're from Kansas. So I have, I'm a Southern Midwest mashup. And there's a lot of lifeblood between those two areas. The only thing that's really different is the topography, especially if it's small town Midwest like my family.

but all that said, are we ready to talk about these ladies in a dash of Anthony?

Absolutely.

That's what we lured him here with. That's how we got him here. So, Brandon, you talked a little bit about, you know, your mom watching it as you were growing up. so I guess my question is, did you watch it with her, or have you rediscovered it maybe later in life?

Well, no. in many ways, like, I was into classic film. I was into classic TV too. So, I mean, it was something that was just always on because my mom. Well, because I was. I was born in 87, so I was born in a year after the show started. So I don't really remember watching it in its original run, but my mom would always watch the reruns on Lifetime because they would show four, six times a day, that in Golden Girls. So I remember, So I just. I just remember her watching them. And you know what? Of course, being a young kid, I, you know, didn't get everything, but I just. I just found the attitudes of these women funny because I think I recognized women like this in my life just because I have Southern relatives, and I, I was. I was raised around. Even here in the Midwest. I was raised around a lot of strong women. so I just. I just recognized them immediately and just, just recognized the humor, and I got it. And, you know, not in a way that maybe, you know, boys my age at the time might have gotten that humor, but I think. I think I just sort of felt. It felt good to have something that recognized something that I would find to be amusing or whatever, in real life on a T. So that. But then as I grew older, just got to really appreciate the acting, you know, at the center of it, especially in the first five seasons, you have four dynamic, incredible actresses who just were all, you know, Broadway caliber. And so to have them on a sitcom is so unique. And then just the writing of it all. I mean, the fact that you have Linda Bloodworth Thomason, who wrote the first two seasons herself, which is so rare. and it's a unique voice that you don't usually hear from a sitcom. So I think, think combined with all of that and just the fact that it's such a, it was such a big part of my growing up. I think that's why the show means a lot to me.

I think if we had to elevator pitch our Designing Women aspect of our show, I think what Brandon just said encapsulates it. We got it. We're just going to play that back.

I wonder, do you have any favorite characters or maybe specific episodes?

Oh, man. you know, it's. Especially those first. I know we're going to talk about season six later, which I do appreciate, and we'll talk about that. But especially those first five seasons, all four of them, it's like four legs on a table. If you take one off, it's not going to work. They just all complement each other so amazingly well. I love. You know, my mom's favorite is Suzanne Delta Burke. So of course I'm going to say that. because there was something just so she could. She made a character where if you put another actress as Suzanne Sugarbaker, that character would be so grating and so offensive. But you put someone as lovable as Delta Burke in that role, and you just love that character. You can't help but fall in love with her. and then, of course. And then, you know, I love. You know, I'm so glad Jean Smart is having a renaissance right now, and people are really appreciating what Designing Women fans knew all along of how brilliant Jean Smart is. But. And then. No. No one else but Dixie Carter could do those Julia Sugarbaker monologues. And then, of course, you know, Annie, I. You know, you can't. You can't really single one out because they're all so amazing as an ensemble. But, man. Yeah, all those characters, they just each have their own unique voice. It's like they're all. It's like they're all their own instruments in a jazz combo. And it's a perfect jazz combo.

It might be like they're all parts of Linda.

Right?

Yeah.

Talked about before, certainly.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm sure that they're all different parts of her personality.

Well, and I don't know if you know this or not, Brandon, but it's so funny that you were talking about Delta Burke being such a perfect fit because, So Nikki and I just recently read her book, from several years ago and almost. Goosh. Gosh, almost 20 years ago now. And, one of the things she talks about is there was a different person in that role because the network didn't want Delta.

Right.

They actually straight up said, no, Delta. And that other actor, whoever it was, was not working out. And so they flew her in, like, day of, to shoot the pilot. And so I think that also just sort of adds fuel to that argument. Like, you need a very special person to be able to come in and do that role and make that role work.

Absolutely.

And I think we did get a little bit of the taking away of the Suzanne and adding someone into that archetype in the form of Alison. And I think it was to varying levels of receipt from the fans, mostly, not enjoying her.

I'm so angry.

I'm finding myself to be a little bit of an Allison apologist. I don't find her, I find her, I think, appropriately grading to the extent that she's intended to be.

It's not Julia Duffy's fault. The part just was not written likable. So there was not. Because Julia Duffy was brilliant playing Stephanie on New Ah, which is a very similar character to Allison, but was written lovable, where, you know, she is this snotty, you know, maid that Bob Newhart and his wife in the show employ, but they would never keep her around if she acted like Allison. So that. I think that that's what they were struggling to figure out, how to make Julia Duffy work in the show, because I think it really could have worked. But unfortunately, Allison just wasn't written the way she should have been.

Yeah. And I think you maybe had mentioned to Salina, on Instagram that BJ becomes in season seven. BJ's a new character. We talked about BJ yet. But she sort of comes into that spot and yeah, maybe fixes some of that wrong.

She does. And it's a totally different, A, totally different character than what you've seen before because she's incredibly wealthy, but she has this down home. It's. She's almost like if you combine Suzanne and Charlene into a character, that's kind of what you get with bj, which I think is what's interesting because she's this incredibly. She has the wealth of Suzanne and the breeding, but she's this wonderful down home, small town girl like Charlene is. So, I think that, I think that that's sort of where you, find that. But yeah, I think the chemistry works a little better in season seven than it does in season six. But there's some great episodes in season six.

Yeah, I have, you mentioned Lifetime a minute ago. And I think every elder millennial owes Lifetime something because Lifetime really exposed us to a lot of amazing tv. I watched Golden Girls as a little, little one. Like my mom said, I would like repeat back some of the things on the show about Bladge instead of Blanche. I would always ask about Bladge, but when Lifetime came around, like when I was in college, I would just have Lifetime on repeat in the middle of the night because they would play Designing Women episodes. So I think there's like a. I, ah, don't know that I've seen very much of season seven, so I don't know much about pj. So I'm really looking forward to that.

Sure.

But I don't find Allison as offensive, I think, as some other people do.

I also think we were curious, what do you think about Designing Women in the landscape of other TV you watched growing up? For me, the obvious touchstone or obvious comparison point is Golden Girls four Men, four Women. But I wonder for you, maybe you were a little more varied in your television watching.

Yeah, I mean, I was. I think I even heard Linda Bloodworth say this in an interview one time. Designing Women was kind of like a rare bird. you know, it's so different than other shows on tv. Like CBS didn't really even know what they had almost with it. because Golden Girls kind of, you can kind of look at them and similar. Actually it's interesting because if you look at the 80s, you had three sitcoms with four female characters at the center for different ages. You had Golden Girls, you had Designing Women, and then you had the Facts of Life, for a younger girl. And they all, all four characters on each show kind of follow the same patterns that they all kind of have, which is kind of interesting if you think about it. but no, growing up, it was funny. I, I kind of watch. I. It's funny now, watching shows. it's funny how we change because I watch a lot of drama now, but when I was young, I didn't really. I was always into comedy, so I watched, I was into Everybody Loves Raymond. I was into, Family Matters. I was into all those TGIF shows, certainly growing up. But I also.

I also love language.

I loved. But I also. But I. But I also liked, more Adult. I like Cheers. I. Frasier. and then into, I always say, probably if you were to ask me what the two greatest sitcoms are in TV history, it's I Love Lucy and Cheers, I think. I think those two are my touchstones in terms of just what a great sitcom can do. but. But, you know, my dad is a big fan of Andy Griffith, so I grew up watching Andy Griffith. So I was really varied in what I watched on TV as a kid. And it was kind of what my parents introduced me to. And it's interesting because my parents loved tv, but they really weren't movie fans. So the classic movie part was self discovery on my part. but. But yeah, it was real in terms of tv. It's kind of what I got introduced to.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I have almost all of those same touchstones in one way or another. I remember my parents watching, ah, the final episode ever of Cheers. I was a big Roseanne fan growing up. I remember sitting in a hotel room in Florida watching the final episode of Roseanne. But Andy Griffith was a big hit in our house because my parents just. We had a bird named Andy and he would hum the Andy Griffiths or whistle the Andy Griffiths song. So, yeah, yeah, I love that you shared your two favorite sitcoms.

And then I think the next thing we wanted to talk about a little bit was, connections of Designing Women to old Hollywood classic films. Because I think that's sort of an intersection between our show and your show and, and you can help us. And you can help us, most importantly.

Sure.

well, actually, I thought maybe so. There are, so many different movie references across Designing Women. There are whole episodes where you realize, oh, this is one big homage to said movie. Or then, like, sometimes they're Just dropping in references over and over again. Deliverance is a classic example of that. Gone with the Wind, Whatever happened to Baby Jane? I'd say that might be three of their very favorite movie references, one way or another. but there also are things that have been discussed, in more one offs, like Song of the south, which has an incredibly interesting backstory to it and so much there to discover and then explore. We're talking about a movie that will never come back out of the Disney vault. Or maybe you have an All About Eve, which comes up in season six. And so, because we have so many different ones that could come up. Where would you like to start? We want to offer that to you.

Oh, okay.

Well, the three of us just discussed a Joan Crawford movie, so let's start with. Well, let's just start with Baby Jane because it's, I think it's kind of the most obvious because especially in season six, the Strange Case of Clarence and Anita, I mean, there's a whole episode where I think it was. I think it was a fun idea to really create an episode that was so topical at the time, which is really serious. And the fact that they were tackling that. But then to add that little subplot of Julia, Mary Jo being in a production of Baby Jane, I just think that that's a fun idea because you're really giving the audience something amusing while discussing a very serious topic. but, yeah, well.

And LBT came back to write this one.

Yeah.

and I think that, well, Nikki and I were. We kind of discussed how in the world did they put the. Push those two plots together. Actually, let me not steal this from Nikki, because I thought. I thought it was right on. I think what you said, and tell me if I'm wrong, is like this idea that maybe they had that play as the A plot. Then all of the.

All of that happened, and so they.

Wanted to fit it in somewhere because LBT had something she felt like people needed to hear. and so, that's kind of what we thought might have happened with that one.

So I'll start there. The other thing that I want to mention is we actually get two homages to it because the other one is in season four, episode one. This is the proxy pig in Great Pretenders. So Anthony gets hurt. Suzanne becomes his terrorizing caretaker. and so. And so you see some of that kind of, Joan Crawford escape trying to escape thing happening. It also has some misery vibes to it, to be honest. But, yeah, so we've Got. They love this. They absolutely love it.

Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, that movie is just such a touchstone, I think, for people. I think a lot of people, I've spoken to a lot of older people who say that they remember going to see that in the theaters, you know, or sneaking out and not, letting their parents know that they went to see that because their parents thought it would be too scary. And it's funny, when you look back on it, it's. I mean, the first thing, it's such a touchstone because you've got Bette Davis and Joan Crawford and their only movie together, and they both were such big stars of their respective eras and both came to mean so much to so many people. And then there's all that myth surrounding their feud, which Ryan Murphy, of course, did a miniseries on. And some of it's true, some of it's probably exaggerated, but I think there's just so much myth surrounding that film and so much lore surrounding that movie. It's always going to be talked about. It's always going to be, you know, sort of this milestone. And so it's not. It's not surprising that Designing Women would tackle that because I think especially the character of Julia Sugarbaker and Suzanne, the Sugarbaker sisters especially, they are patterned after a lot of these women from the 30s and 40s. I could see Joan Crawford or Bette Davis playing Julia Sugarbaker in another universe. so, I think that it's really apropos and because I think that Julia even says at the end of that episode, it's something like, it's appropriate on a, you know, day of infamy like this, that we're dressed up as two of the biggest big mouth broads that ever lived in this country or something like that. So I think that Designing Women and especially those characters, they're descendants of those kinds of women from the 30s and 40s.

I think that's so astute. And that was kind of what was, hitting me a little bit, because I was like, okay, just a question here. Why. Why these two women? And it does feel like you need two brassy bras to say, hey, this thing that happened wasn't right. And for it to be in coming out of Mary Jo, who has been so timid, it was almost like she needed to be in character to let out this side of herself that is there, but she is less likely to do than Julia. And Julia gets all of the rants, but, man, every now and then Will, when they'll Let, Annie Potts go. She really reminds us of who she is and you can't sleep on her.

And Annie Potts does a killer Betty Davis impression.

She really does so good. I could watch her speech 50 times in a row and still be just one more time. Thank you so much.

Yeah, but, but yeah.

Baby Jane, is especially for your listeners if people haven't seen it or they haven't seen it in a while. It's a remarkably well made movie. I think a lot of times it gets sort of passed over as a camp classic and there certainly are campy aspects of it, but it is a scary, heartbreaking movie because it really tells you how Hollywood discards older actresses and what sometimes older actresses have to do in order to survive. Now it does it in a very over the top horror manner. But, it's really, I mean it's. The suspense still works and especially Joan, Crawford is more of a passive role in it. But Bette Davis, man, it's a tour de force performance and one of her best. So, yeah, that's a movie that holds up.

So I watched it for the first time last.

Too scary for me.

I don't think so.

Okay.

No, it's more suspense, really. It's edge of your seat. But there's nothing that's going to keep you up at night. I wouldn't think.

It almost feels like family drama.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Like they're like really drama.

It's, it's, it's sibling rivalry on steroids.

Yeah. I don't know. I'd want to have Thanksgiving with them. It'd be a little.

No, no, no, no.

but it is, I don't know. I. You really hit on something there too, I think. I imagine, the, you know, they were both. I think maybe Betty Davis was 53 and and Crawford was like 56 or 57. And to have two women leads doing that like in that era, even in the early 60s, I think really came across as singular.

America was shocked to see two glamorous women looking grotesque in that way.

Yes. And I, if I understand correctly, and maybe Ryan Murphy got this part right. I'm not sure. But I think Bette Davis asked for that. Really over the top maker.

that was the difference between the two of them. Betty had no problem making herself look like what the role is supposed to look. Crawford always, Crawford always wanted to look good no matter what. So even, even when Crawford is. And I'm not going to spoil it for Nikki, who hasn't Seen it, but, you know, in some of the dire moments that Crawford's. And she still looks like a million.

Bucks, I'm like, how does she look so good?

So I went down a rabbit hole on this one because I. It struck me in one of the early seasons of Designing Women that one of LBT's favorite plot devices, to take a classic movie, which, obviously, I didn't know the movie, so I'd have to go do a lot of research to understand, but to take it and turn it into a plot about the Designing Women. Women. Salina, I want to blow your mind and say, they shoot fat people, don't they? I think, Brandon, that's also a classic movie. A 1969 movie with Jane Fonda. They shoot,

They shoot horses, don't they? the episode. The episode doesn't really have a whole lot to do with them, I think. I think it's just a clever play on the title. because the movie they Shoot Horses, don't they? Is really. It's about a, It's about a dance marathon and the. And the Great Depression. and it's. It's a brilliant movie, but you really have to be in the mood to watch a really depressing movie when you watch it. Jane. Jane Fond. It's. It stars Jane Fonda and a lot of other, really solid actors in that movie. But, it's about desperation during the Great Depression, what people are willing to put themselves through, in that movie, and sort of some really tragic consequences toward the end. But, But yeah, that. I think that move. That episode is really just more a play on the title than anything, because it doesn't have as much to do with the plot.

It did sound like there was a public humiliation aspect of the movie, whereas the promoter put the dancers through some public humiliation, and there was a little bit ringing for the public humiliation of naming Suzanne Most chain.

I get that.

And I sort of thought maybe some of the DNA was there, but it did sound like a movie I'm not likely to watch. And I really like Jane Fonda.

Yeah.

Sad.

Yeah, it's a. Yeah, you got to be in the mood to watch a sad movie.

Sometimes it helps pull the tears out. I'm just saying. Okay. I don't want to move on. If there's anything else that you wanted to share about Baby Jane.

No, no, we're good.

Okay. So I. I'm sort of flirting with the idea of Gone with the Wind or Deliverance. Do one of those Rise to the Top for You.

Oh, well, one. One of my favorite episodes is Nightmare from Hee Haw. So let's talk about Deliverance.

That sounds great. And that was probably a weird way to frame that, but. And could there be two more? They're both.

Oh, oh, but yeah, they're both about the South.

so we have actually talked about Deliverance to a great extent here, including we, an sugar that we dedicated to it specifically, because that is such a Southern touchstone, for better or for worse. But, for those who have not heard those episodes or are not familiar, of course, this is the 1972 kayaking trip from hell slash hillbilly vehicle starring Burt Reynolds, John Voight, Ronnie Cox and Ned Beatty. this is Designing Women's favorite movie reference. Of course. we are typically getting derogatory slams from Suzanne to Charlene, but you are absolutely right. That full episode homage, Nightmare from Hee Haw, is definitely the sitcom version of Deliverance.

Yeah.

so what are your thoughts there? You said it's your favorite.

Oh, well, the episode, like, I like the movie Deliverance. I don't. It's not one that I choose to watch a lot, but. But no Nightmare from he. in terms of just laugh out loud, funny, like, I don't think it's like the most well written Designing Women episode ever, but just in terms of just like big laughs, it doesn't get much better than that episode. and I think mainly, you know, just because of, you know, especially Dub Taylor, who they cast as Daddy Jones, is just hysterical. And the image of him and Dixie Carter slow dancing is just one of the best things ever.

but the dancing conversation.

Well, yeah, but, but no, the movie Deliverance, when you go back and watch it, it's a terrifying, you know, well made movie. But, I think unfortunately it put a stereotype and a trope on Southerners that unfortunately they just couldn't get past for a long time. I think a few years after that, I think Smokey and the Bandit tried to, help that just a little bit. because if you. I did an episode on smoking the Bandit a little while ago and I said, you know, it's really interesting because you would think the movie would fall into a lot of different Southern tropes, like Deliverance type tropes, but it really doesn't. It's trying to bring it out of the Deliverance sort of era. It's showing kind of the new south, which was sort of the thing at the time in the late 70s. all of the characters Are pretty intelligent, well spoken, liberated. They just like having a good time and they like racing cars and they like all that, you know. So if you go back and watch Smokey, it's actually pretty surprising. And, but, but Deliverance, I mean, it's just unfortunate that a lot of people tend to, you know, think of the dueling banjos and making Ned Beatty squeal like a pig. You know that those are the two things that stand out from that movie. But it really is a well made action adventure suspense movie and one of Burt Reynolds best performances. And I didn't think of Smokey and Deliverance to touchstones and Burt Reynolds career too.

Well, he was writing his role.

Loved. He loved Georgia.

Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely.

In fact, he said he was from Georgia for a while, but it's the one he's.

He's also one of the connections. He gets talked about both a lot on Designing Women and Golden Girls. So they both.

LBT goes on to do Evening Shade.

Evening Shade.

So that's obviously a big point in his career as well. Or a big place where he's spent some time. and I. So Deliverance was tough for me. I have a little bit of a struggle with the 70s pacing of movies.

Oh, okay.

it's just a little slow. and I think I'm just too ADHD sometimes for that. For that kind of build. But I definitely appreciate it. I'm glad I watched it. I'm with you. I think there's probably two things, in entertainment history that have done more damage to southern representation than anything else. Deliverance is number two. Number one came in the form of the Hatfields and the McCoys and the way that, that got picked up in newspapers initially and then sure permeated out into the culture that said too, they're both two fascinating things to explore. and I know that I've enjoyed learning a lot about from my perspective on the Designing Women piece.

I struggle a little bit with Deliverance as a constant reference because it's done pretty mean spiritedly.

Right.

You know, and so I think the whole genesis of besides the Women piece, like get four women in a room talking and there you have a show is this idea that like, hey, you know, y'all need to understand that there's more going on in the south than people give it credit for. And then we turn around and we slam the South.

We slam certain parts of the South.

I think that's the harsh truth about Southerners.

Well, well, well, it's interesting, you know, because I think Linda Bloodworth Thomason was really trying to. When she slams Deliverance in the writing, I think she's really trying to get, you know, there's a difference between Southern people and hillbillies, I think, is what she's trying to do. And it's funny. I just watched, I just watched an interview with Ron Howard, and he was talking about growing up on the Andy Griffith show, and he was talking about how Andy was really not a fan of the Beverly Hillbillies and shows like that because he didn't. He thought what he was. He thought what he was portraying on the Andy Griffith show was more of the real south. And he hated the stereotypes the Beverly Hillbillies and shows like that were portraying and tried to really. So I think that that's sort of what Linda Bloodward Thomason is trying to do, too, with this a little bit, but I think. I think a lot more. It's just overkill.

It's a hard. It's a hard thing to do. And I think, Because I enjoy that episode too. And I think, obviously, Delta Burt does a fabulous job doing those slams.

She does.

At the same time, you're like, dang, dang it. It's so mean. But I think, yeah, we're in the South. We're just as vulnerable to stereotyping each other because, as we are to being stereotyped by, quote, unquote, outside. Because, well, yeah, I'm from the south, but I'm not a hillbilly. Or. Yeah, I'm from the south, but I'm not a redneck.

well, we just talked about this when we talked about Flamingo Road. There's the right side of the tracks and the wrong side of the tracks. So that's the Southern version of it.

Right.

The Sugar Bakers are from Atlanta. They're lati da. But the folks in North Georgia are Deliverance.

That's right. And we have, There's a lot to be learned from Appalachia, not to be misunderstood.

Oh, certainly, Certainly. Absolutely.

I also come from hill people.

The country folk hold a special spot in our hearts.

That's right. so anything else on Deliverance that strikes a chord?

No, I don't think so. I think that. I mean, they. They ring all of the comedy out, of Deliverance as they can on Designing Women.

I agree.

now we can. We can talk about Gone with the Wind if you want, or we can move on and we can, talk a little bit about the characters on Designing Women. A Little bit more in depth.

Gone with the Wind's pretty obvious. I mean, the whole. You haven't gotten to season seven yet, but the whole last episode of Designing Women is about Gone with the Wind. because all the characters get to play Scarlett O'Hara in that episode. But you'll get to that. But no, I'm. No, no, no, I won't spoil anything for you. But, but no, I mean, Gone with the Wind, certainly throughout the whole seven year run, it just, it just permeates over everything. And, I think, because Gone with the Wind is such a touchstone for the south, good and bad. I think that, I think that personally, and I'm just going to say this, I think Gone with the Wind is a fantastic movie. I don't agree with its thesis that, the old south was wonderful, but I think that it's an incredibly well acted, three and a half hour Technicolor soap opera. And that's the way you need to look at it. It's this fantasy soap opera with an amazing performance by Vivien Leigh. and I think that it just represents so much of what old Hollywood could do. and it's just kind of the, it's the apex of that kind of moviemaking, unfortunately. It just totally glosses over the struggle that African Americans went through at the time. And, but, but, but, yeah, it's such a touchstone. It's such a milestone for every, every bit of Southern history and Southern lore. And it's such a huge movie in history that of course Designing Women is going to have that hanging over its head because you've got four strong women in the leads and you've got a strong woman at the center of Gone with the Wind. So it's, it's going to be that, that. And you know, it also helps the Delta Burke looked, especially in the first couple seasons, look so much like Vivian Lee. And she even talks about that in one of the episodes that she gets that all the time or something like that. But, but.

So hard for you.

But, but, but, yeah, so, so, yeah, it just, it permeates through all of that. And I think it encapsulates so well on the episode where they're doing the tour of home. and I think, I think Julia, in her final speech sort of encapsulates all the Southern feelings about that. You know, the image can be an insult to the south because it's an insult to all the people that did live and die there for so many reasons. But, yeah, it's always going to be part of that history and lore.

I mean, that's so perfectly put because I think we, you know, to this idea that in watching something like Gone with the Wind, it is an opportunity now, I think, to have that conversation about how, like, yeah, this wasn't appropriate. We're not condoning it. We're not, like, everything. The glorification of slavery, we're not into that. Meanwhile, Vivian Leigh, you're right. I mean, she is just mesmerizing. You literally can't take your eyes off of her. so there are these aspects that, I mean, I will forever remember her in that red dress, just standing there with that eyebrow. There's just. That is, like, emblazoned in the back of my brain. yeah. but, yeah.

also, I wanted to mention one other Designing Women episode, which is season two, episode seven, heart Attacks, and Charlene compares Suzanne to Scarlet. Yeah, she's always so flighty, and now she's just all over this one heart attack. And so it was. It is kind of, it was a really, like, capturing that good side of Gone with the Wind, that interesting character development, and doing that through the show and through Suzanne because.

Because just like, sort of the history of. Well, not just the south, the history of America, it's a mixed bag. So you got to take the good with the bad. That.

And I think that's what I love about podcasts like yours, and what I hope people can take away from ours is there's a way to be critical of art, and there's a way to take it for what it is so you can do both things and hold both things. And I think it's something we really struggle with in society is to have this nuanced view of things. But you can absolutely still appreciate a piece of art from decades and centuries ago while still taking into account all of the things that it couldn't take into account, whatever reason.

Absolutely.

And then you also. What other movie did you bring? All About Eve? that's. I think. Well, first of all, I think All About Eve is the, probably one of the most perfect screenplays ever written. and then. And then that season six episode, the Ode to Atlanta, I think that that's a wonderful tribute to All About Eve, that whole episode.

So it's the same general concept, right?

Yeah, I mean, in a. In a comedic way, but, yeah, it's. It's, Well, first of all, Bette Davis is amazing in it. but, yeah, you've got the character of Heather, who's very much like Eve Harrington in a more comedic way, who comes in, except in All About Eve. Bette Davis plays Margo Channing, who is this huge Broadway star, and Eve Harrington plays sort of her number one fan, who is so mousy, but so loyal and so incredible. And Bette Davis, as Margot just takes her in little by little. she becomes Margot's understudy. Then, you know, she ends up taking the. You know, I don't want to spoil it for everybody, but, yeah, it's, it's a great moment. And that episode is a wonderful tribute.

All I could think was it sounded like the award winning version of Single White Female. And like, I really want to see it now. I also tend to think about that being, kind of a breakout role for Marilyn. yeah.

Marilyn is one of her very first movies. Movies.

Right. So. And I think she's such a scene stiller that that's. She does which before anything else, she.

Does steal some scenes in it which Betty Davis did not enjoy.

That's not, that's not a broad I'd want to be on the wrong side of. But, that was Nikki who caught that. I also wind up wound up going back and they literally say directly that it's about. All about you.

Yeah, like, how did miss that completely?

And that's how I caught it. It's right in my face.

I'm like such good sleuthing. How did you find it?

I love when she thinks that,

Now real quickly, because I think we're gonna do a little, a, fun activity that Nikki thought of with this. if Designing Women had been made in old Hollywood. Before we get there, are there any movie references that you just feel like we totally, totally skipped over?

I'm trying to think. I mean, they're all over the place in so many episodes. I mean, it's not a movie ref, but I love in the episode the Women of Atlanta, the whole tribute to Lucy, in that episode, because that, that episode was shot right after Lucille Ball's death. So that was Designing Women's tribute to her, which was wonderful. I love. I mentioned in our episode that you recorded with me about Joan Crawford's, movie Mildred Pierce, that she won the Oscar for. And I, think it's the episode where Mary Jo and Claudia, her daughter, are dating the same guy. And Charlene says that it reminds her of Mildred Pierce. But then she goes on that huge, that, that huge tirade that ends up talking about celebrities who do commercials and things like that. That's one of my favorite references, too. But, yeah, there's. I mean, there's. I don't think there's a single episode of Designing Women where they don't make some kind of TV or movie pop culture reference.

Yeah. I think LBT must have, like, just the most encyclopedic knowledge of. Yes. And it very much so reminds me of Gilmore Girls. And we talked. They. They would just really just go off like gang busters if they don't know each other somehow.

And I was thinking, actually, Brandon and LBT would have a lot to talk about, because I think you guys could go toe to toe on experience and knowledge. You're encyclopedic here.

Well, yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you. I appreciate it.

Well, can we, pick his encyclopedic knowledge a little bit? I think what we. I had this, like, not fully fleshed out idea to think about. one of the things I. I like to bring to the show is like, a what if game. Like, what if we did this differently, and we just reimagine all of these scenarios, and in this world, we could bring what if, designing Women was made in old Hollywood and who would play which character? This downside is that I'm not a Hollywood buff, so these things don't come naturally to me, and I don't have, like, an immediate. Of course, fill in the blank. Judy Garland or whoever. so I asked ChatGpt. Salina did a very thoughtful exercise where she actually researched. So I think Salina has some suggestions as well. And then we'd love to see what you think. Okay, what I can do is I can tell you that character Julia. We'll start with her, and I'll tell you what Chat GPT says. We can talk about whether we think that makes sense and see what you guys both think in terms of, who would be better. Okay, so Julia Katherine Hepburn. So Chatty says with her sharp wit, strong presence, and real life advocacy for women's rights, Hepburn would be a perfect Julia, delivering powerful speeches with the conviction and intensity the role demands. What do you think, Brandon?

I can see it. there are others I would pick above Katharine Hepburn for that role. but no, it totally. I think Katharine Hepburn was a real life Julia Sugarbaker. so in the movies, the roles that she played might not necessarily fall into that pattern, but Katharine Hepburn definitely was like a Julia in real life. Although I would say, the wonderful thing about Julia Sugarbaker is she is a feminist, but she's also feminine, which is, Which. So. So she walks that line brilliantly. Katherine Hepburn, in real life, you know, was more famous for, being one of the first, you know, prominent women to wear pants, and all of that. So definitely in spirit, but maybe not in look, I would say, but. But, yeah, it's a good choice.

Okay, I want to hear your thoughts on Katharine Hepburn, and then let's hear some of those folks that you thought would go to Julia above Katharine Hepburn.

Well, mine's easy because I chose Katharine Hepburn.

Good.

and I definitely did it for, like, they're both beautiful. but also, like, Katharine Hepburn is known for playing these strong characters. I agree. Maybe not the same. Not in the same tone, but strong characters. Trailblazer, feminist. In real life, before that word was really even used, and then she just refused to conform to societal expectations of women. And I think that rings true of Julia. Outspoken, assertive, athletic. We did have a whole episode dedicated to Julia running.

We did.

And. And there are, You know, I think there's a certain level of, like, independence in a modern woman and being able to, influence, like, how the perceptions of women are changing. I think all of that is in the sauce there. to me, that is the Julia archetype. Or rather, Julia is the archetype. so that was that. So me and Chat. GPT. We're right here.

You're right there.

Yeah.

What did you think, Brandon?

Who else would you put in that role?

Well, I mean, it's interesting. I think that Julia is kind of an amalgam. I mean, she. I think Julia, she's got the style of Joan Crawford, but she's got the attitude of Katharine Hepburn. so I think that that works.

Oh, I get that reference now, the Joan Crawford reference. I know that now because we did Flamingo Road.

But somebody, who I could also see playing Julia would be Barbara Stanwyck. I don't know if you two are familiar with Stanwyck's work all that much, but, a very. A very tough, beautiful woman of, you know, who could stand toe to toe with a man who had principal. let me see, who else at that time. I think Lauren Bacall would have been a great Julia Sugar Baker. yeah, there's. There's a lot. Oh, yeah, yeah. The voice to match, too. They're, probably. Probably not so much Lauren Bacall, like, during the 40s, because she was only. She's only in her teens, 20s, when she first came on the scene. But probably like in her mid years or whatever. She would have been a great Julia Sugar Baker. But. But yeah, I mean, there's, there's. So at that time, who could have, you know, pulled that role off?

Okay, okay, I'll buy it. I'll allow it. Suzanne. This one I like, immediately knew what Chat GPT was going to suggest. so Marilyn Monroe or Lana Turner? So it says either could capture Suzanne's flirtate. Either could capture Suzanne's flirtatious charm and love of beauty. Monroe would bring a slightly softer comedic side, while Turner could lead into the glamorous high society element. What do you think about that, Brandon?

It makes sense to me. I don't know. It's. We'll get to it when you get to me, but I have a couple other blondes in mind for, for the Suzanne, role. But no, Marilyn has the. Marilyn has the attitude and she has the comedic chops, but I don't know that she has that sort of bulldozer thing that Delta Burke has where she can just, you know, run over lines of dialogue the way she does Lana Turner. I'm a fan of Lana Turner, but I don't remember her ever doing comedy a whole lot. So I can't really, speak on that. Certainly beautiful. And certainly, has a presence and an attitude. But I would probably go with Marilyn over Lana. But I have some other choices I'll go with too, later.

I'm not sure ChatGPT has the best knowledge of Designing Women, so I think they were like, like some things say she's beautiful. Lana Turner is beautiful. So what do you think, Salina? What do you think about those suggestions?

So I think, the Marilyn one is throwing me a little bit. obviously they both have comedic chops. It's a different kind of comedy. But like, they, they also. They being Chat GPT brought in the softness thing because I do think about Marilyn Monroe as being a little bit softer. I think us, especially in the latter seasons, Delta Burke goes for. She's more of a, like a brassy broad. You know, she'll tell you that when she talks about the way that she played her.

So, yeah, okay. Season, yeah, season. Seasons one and two, Suzanne, definitely Marilyn. But yeah, seasons three through five, Suzanne are a little different.

Yeah, we, we kind of take a different turn there. Lana Turner. I'm not. I do know who Lana Turner is, but I'm not familiar enough with her body of work that I feel like I can say that with any expertise, so. Sure.

who Would you have picked?

I would just personally I would have gone with Liz Taylor, to some extent. There's obviously the looks, but we do also know that Liz, Taylor was a huge fan of Delta Burke and even reached out to her after season four as they shoot fat women, don't they? So I think it's, I think it's a role that like if she had done TV and that was like, that she would have done and the timing made sense, I, I think she would have enjoyed playing Suzanne in those later years. I think that the life experience that Delta Burke brought into that role in the latter years also sort of had some life blood with I think some of the life experience that Liz Taylor had in her own life. So I am thinking more about real life than necessarily the roles that were played.

So Brandon, who did you have?

Well, first of all, Salina, I think that you're Elizabeth Taylor. Taylor, m. She never really showed it on screen. But the real life Elizabeth Taylor was definitely a Suzanne because Elizabeth Taylor was hysterical. If you ever watch her, in interviews, especially down the road. And they, anyone who ever knew Elizabeth Taylor said that she, she loved a good dirty joke and she loved, you know, she had such a great sense of humor. But I was thinking in terms of people who played certain characters, I was trying to think about dark haired women, just to go along with Delta Burke's look. But really the style that Delta Burke uses to play Suzanne really is more of like a Carol Lombard or a Jean Harlow, because I, especially I just did an episode on the screwball comedy My Man Godfrey and Lombard was so beautiful but so funny and she captures the childlike ability that Delta Burke does as Suzanne. so I think it really, really works well. And the, and the same thing with Harlow. Harlow was a stunningly beautiful woman but was absolutely hysterical and could, could be so funny and so childlike as well. So I think, I think those are two that I would go with.

Okay, I like it, I like it. So for Mary Jo, Chatgpt suggests Judy Garland. Known for her relatable everyone appeal. Garland would bring heart and warmth to Mary Jo's character. Her struggles with single motherhood could resonate powerfully given Garland's public image as a down to earth start with a complex personal life.

Huh? What do you think, Brandon?

When you first said the name Judy Garland, I did a double take. But when you did the description I was like, you know what? That could work. Because Judy Garland, according to everybody who knew her was an incredibly funny person and also had this incredible, incredible, you know. You know, down to earth appealing. You know, Mary Jo, of all the characters, is the one who struggles in life the most. and you're right, Judy Garland could relate to that. So, you know, I could definitely. You know, that's interesting. I could definitely see that.

What did you think? Did you have someone different in mind?

So that just kind of blew my mind a little bit.

That's what Chat GPT and I like to do.

But, like, I do also think there's something about, like, looks, wise that I think matches up. It's like this. And I say this in this, like, everyone who's ever on the screen is so beautiful that they would probably just kill me over in real life. But it's like an approachability that feels like between the two of them, I actually went with Lucille Ball. So I flirted with the idea of a couple of other redheads and ultimately landed here. And here's why I think people picture I Love Lucy, Lucille Ball, and maybe don't realize that she was actually a total babe. They really played her looks down for that part. Sometimes I think people also miss just how drop dead gorgeous Annie Potts is. But it's not just about the looks by any stretch. It's also that they both have epic comedic timing. And I also chose Ball because I think it's fair to say that they both have films under their belt, Potts and Ball. But they're really best known for tv, and for a little southern movie connection. Lucille Ball auditioned for the part of Scarlett O'Hara. So I, Which I think is interesting. I can't even wrap my mind around it, but I would have liked to have seen the audition, but, that's my pick.

Was there anyone else you thought of? Brandon?

You know, it's funny, I was thinking about, you know, you bringing up Lucy, and, she, she did some wonderful movies before she got into tv. It's just Hollywood really didn't know what to do with her, because could kind of do it all and they couldn't, like, put her into one thing. So it took TV to really give her that whole, her whole dynamic because she could do it all in tv. so. So, yeah, I think that, you know, I. It's funny. This was the one person, where I think it's. Because Annie Potts has that stunning red hair, where it's hard to think of anybody but a redhead in that role. so I was just. I was thinking about, you know, just certain people who have sort of fiery personalities because that's what Mary Jo needs. And one of the redheads that I thought of was Maureen O'Hara, who I think would have been really, really great in the role. She doesn't quite have the vulnerability of Annie Potts because somebody who could go toe to toe and fight John Wayne in a movie doesn't have much vulnerability. But Maureen O'Hara has the fire, that Mary Jo needs. And you could really root for her because she's so down to earth.

I almost went with Maureen O'Hara Hera. I was like this close. but.

And then I blew your mind with Judy Garland.

All right, so we'll do Charlene and then I'll tell you guys what Chat GPT picked for Anthony Bernice and, and we can just do a quick thumbs up or thumbs down. So for Charlene, Chat GPT picked Doris Day. Day's wholesome, bubbly charm is ideal for the sweet natured, endlessly optimistic Charlene. She'd bring light hearted humor and compassion, making Charlene the moral compass of the group. What do you think about that, Brandon?

You know what, that's the one that it got right. I picked Doris Day. So we'll go with me on that one because I thought Doris Day. Yeah, because Jean Smart captures that wonderful quality that just makes you now Doris Day. I don't, I'm trying to think back to all the. Doris Day. Never played someone as naive as Charlene in a movie, but she was so great at playing those down home, small town girls that you would just root for the girl next door quality that every guy wants to marry. And that's what, you know, Gene Smart brings to Charlie. And I think, I think Doris Day would be great in that role.

I think it's good. You agree? Okay.

I didn't think of it, but I think it's good.

Did you have someone else?

Yeah. I've got my bad suggestion for this one, which was Gene Harlow on this one.

Oh, that's not bad. She could do that.

Okay, wonderful. I, I mean I, I thought this one was the most challenging, at least for me, because Charlene's a little challenging. Well, I was. Yes, and I. A blonde bombshell.

Sure.

But it has to be a blonde bombshell with a heart of gold. I thought Marilyn Monroe felt too obvious and a little off. Harlow, blonde bombshell. And in real life, born in Missouri. So just like Charlene, quite a bit shorter than Jean Smart. So I was having a little trouble wrapping my mind around that. and like I said, I do know who, like I said that with this exercise, like, I know who Jean Harlow is, but I, I've not seen a movie with Jean Harlow before.

Harlow. Harlow could do either Suzanne or Charlene. She could pull it off.

And. Well, and there's some similarities between them too. I think. it's just, it's just two different sides of the tracks. Right? So. And I think, I don't know, like, Charlene does have a little bit of like a, like a sex.

Pot thing going for her, especially in the early seasons before, before she gets married, has a baby.

And maybe before she did a little vying for like, can you give me a little bit more depth? Which it sounds like she did.

So.

All right, so for Anthony, we get Sidney Poitier. As a dignified, intelligent actor known for his roles that confronted social issues, Poitier would be a stellar choice for Anthony. His natural gravitas would ground the character, adding layers to his experiences with prejudice. Yay or nay? Brandon, we'll start with you.

Well, I mean, it's sad because in classic Hollywood you don't get a whole lot of options for, for the role of Anthony. I mean, I mean, I mean, Sidney Poitier could, you know, certainly carry it off. The thing about Sidney Poitier is you didn't really get a whole lot of opportunities to see him in comedy because I think that he really mentally wanted to take it upon himself to do things that had a lot of meat to it because he felt like it was important at the time. But I, I'm sure he could have, I'm sure he could have pulled it off. Now there are people who I would think of, you know, later down the road in the 60s, 70s, you know, who could have pulled it off, but it's not within that time period. So I guess Sidney Poitier would kind of be the default person. But, but he, I mean, not a bad choice at all.

Okay. What do you think, Salina? Same thing?

Yeah, samesies.

So, Bernice, Thelma Ritter. Known for her scene stealing roles in sharp comedic timing. Ritter had a knack for playing quirky, non nonsense characters with a lot of heart. She'd capture Bernice's offbeat charm perfectly, delivering those off the wall lines with just the right amount of deadpan humor and warmth. Plus, Ritter's natural affinity for playing lovable eccentrics would make Bernice a standout even among such a power powerhouse cast. What do you think about that? I have no Idea who this person.

That's perfect. Chat. Chat. GPT. Got that, right.

Got that one.

Yeah, yeah, that. Oh, Thelma Read. Oh, if you. Thelma Ritter makes any movie that she's in. Better. She is in, she's type of character. She's in, She's in All About Eve. She's in Miracle on 34th Street. She's in Pillow Talk. She's in Rear Window. She's in so many great movies.

Okay, so we'll give that one to Chat GPT.

And then last but not least, I did ask all the way up to Allison. I just had to know what Chat. GPT thought it suggested. Gene Tierney, it said. For the glamorous but somewhat haughty Allison Sugar Baker, Jean Tierney would be a perfect fit. Known for her beauty and cool, sophisticated style, Tierney could embody Allison's polished big city Persona and her occasional condescension toward herself. Southern relatives. Tierney's sharp, poised delivery would lend itself well to Allison's sarcastic humor and better than you attitude, creating an Allison that's both captivating and delightfully exasperating. She'd bring elegance and a touch of icy charm that would balance beautifully with the warmth of characters like Charlene and Mary Jo.

it's interesting because Jean Tierney, she does. She did have an icy. For most of her movies. She did have an icy, quality to her. But I think Julia Duffy's funnier, than Gene Tierney. So I don't know if she could necessarily pull off the comp, but if you were looking for, like, an Allison Sugar Baker in real life, maybe Gene Tierney could have pulled it off, but. And Gene Tierney was gorgeous, but, But, yeah, that's interesting. But I'm trying to think. I can't really think of too many people who could do that and pull off an icy exterior, but also be funny. That's a hard one. But, yeah, that. I don't know that I would go with that.

Okay. Any thoughts? Salina?

I'm over here googling.

Okay, well, I know we're running short on time with you, Brandon, and we don't want to talk to your whole day. and you've promised us we might get another chance to talk to you, maybe Bette Davis film, so we'll have more chance to talk, but, we do have some major themes of Designing Women that I also thought would be interesting to briefly talk about how those might have been adapted in, more of an old Hollywood way. I think one of the ones was Southern culture, and I think we addressed this a Little bit in the episode we did with you on Flamingo Road. but I wanted to talk about it just briefly here. So I think when I was thinking about this, my initial reaction was that maybe we'd lean more into that season two Dash Golf sort of approach to Designing Women. Very over the top, antebellum. I just sort of think I had this perception that that was the way we delivered the south to people in, you know, the 40s and the 50s. But then we watched Flamingo Road and we saw how, like, downplayed the Southernness of it all was, which got me wondering if I might be wrong. Like, even To Kill a Mockingbird was, like, a little bit conservative in its approach to Southernness. part of its whole plotline was that it was happening in the south, but I don't feel like we really leaned into that in a. In a major way. So I. You know, we talked about this a little bit on the, Flamingo Road episode, but that got me wondering if there was really sort of an editorial decision being made back. Back in the 40s and 50s Old Hollywood Times to really not make something too location specific. So, I'm going to talk about that a little bit and then just see generally how you think. Think they might have approached the Southern part of it all.

I don't know. Well, first, I mean, Designing Women, the South is such a part of its identity, so you have to, you have to incorporate it. it's interesting when you think about Southern movies or movies that take place in the south, because most everything was filmed in Hollywood at that point on a soundstage or on a backlot. But, no, I'm like, if you look at a lot of movies, most of them are Annabella themed. You know, Civil War. Whether it's Gone with the Wind or whether it's Jezebel with Bette Davis or whether it's, Reap the Wild Wind. You know, they're all these big Harlequin romance Southern melodramas. and then the movies that would take place in, like, modern day in the south, like Flamingo Road, they were all more kind of. And we said this in our episode, General Small Town usa because I think they wanted to appear, appeal to a mass of people. if you would look at, you know, Westerns or something like that, a lot of those, you know, would be set in Texas or would be set, you know, more. More westerly than, you know, the Southern United States. So a lot of the movies that took place in the south were More sort of historical pieces, which is interesting. So I guess it was because movies back then really wanted to appeal to the biggest mass audience that they could. So they would set it in, you know, a small town in the south, but not really be specific about where it was. So, you know, a lot of movies made in the, especially in the 30s and 40s were either set in big cities or they were set in. You know, if they were set in a small town, it would be any small town, you know, in the Midwest where everybody could identify. They weren't definitely location specific. So, I think that's changed because we've become a lot more specific in our storytelling. But, you're right. Mockingbird, I think, is such, a gentle portrayal of the south because Harper Lee was thinking back to her childhood in Alabama. And so that's what she observed growing up. So maybe if she had experienced it as an adult, it would have been different. but yeah, I think it's more like we got, especially in the 30s and 40s, Hollywood's idea of the south as a whole in the mainstream. You know, and we know that every state in the south has almost its own identity and is different. But I think Hollywood really wanted to make sure that everybody was sort of led into the circle.

Right. Did you have any thoughts on that, Salina, you wanted to share?

Just that I love Townsville you usa.

The other theme I wanted to ask you about quickly was politics. So I feel like it's something. Like it's something light. I feel like it's kind of obvious the topics would change a bit.

Definitely.

the tone of like Julia's Terminator tirades would have to change. Yeah, I'm thinking like, maybe, you know, we're not getting her grandstanding about racism in the mall right in front of them all cops or whatever. But I do think we might get some Atticus Finch style comments about racist. Like, I think a lot of it would be veiled with these very. You know, we talked about the flowery Southern language and talking around a thing neatly while still kind of calling it out. But you have to kind of be with it to get it. That's sort of how I think it might have been approached. But I wanted to see what you think.

Yeah, it would have to be done. It would have to be done in a more genteel way. Certainly she, Julia couldn't be the Terminator, in, you know, the 40s. And you know, if you get into the 50s as the civil rights movement begins, you know, she could get A little more blatant. But if you're sticking in, you know, the 30s and 40s period, it would have to be a little more palatable than what Julia tends to make it for people. But, But yeah, it would have to be. It would have to be thinly veiled, it would have to be guarded. but, you know, they didn't get. But a lot of these women at that time took stances on things, not necessarily about a lot of the more hot button political issues, but were able to take stances because women were pretty. Like I said on my show, especially in the 30s and 40s, because women were really in big in charge positions during World War II when, you know, so many men were off fighting, they had to take charge and they had to really let their feelings be known. So I think it would have been much easier. But then as you got the 50s, things regressed a little bit. But, I think. I think politics could be handled, but just definitely in a more thought out way, I would say, well, I'm thinking.

About just Flamingo Road. So it feels like it would have to be within the parameters of what a woman was allowed to be involved in.

Yeah.

and so maybe we would see it through that or how they work the channels through a husband.

And so the last theme I sort of wanted to talk about was feminism. And I feel like the show, some of the, like, genetic pieces of the show would have to change monumentally for that.

Oh, yeah.

So like Mary Jo struggling with single parenthood, or Charlene or Carlene going to college, the sugar bakers being business owners. Like so much of that would ha. I imagine would have had to have been dealt with differently and in that understated or, sort of socially appropriate way.

Well, it's interesting. I mean, if you look at some of those 40s M. I mean, Scarlett O'Hara and gone with the Wind ends up owning a lumber mill, at that point, and Mildred Pierce, Joan Crawford owns her own chain of restaurants. So, it's the businesswoman aspect of it, I think would be fine. but, but, but, yeah, you know, single motherhood certainly was looked upon. I mean, I mean, it was. It was a big thing to be a single mom on a sitcom in the 70s and 80s, let alone in a movie in the 40s and 50s. Unless you were. Unless you were a widow or something like that. But you'd be expected to remarry. You know, probably not too long. Yes. There's a wonderful movie called, My Reputation with Barbara Stanwyck that was made in the 40s where she's a widow, took care of her sick husband for a few years. He's died. And people either. People either expect her to remarry quickly or to wear black and be in mourning. And she kind of wants to live her life and do other things while she's raising two boys and stuff. So that was, that was a very forward, movie for that time. But. But yeah, you would have to, you'd, have to sort of skirt around the public mores of the time to sort of work around that. But yeah, it's interesting though, if you put a lot of that stuff in the 30s and 40s, you could probably get away with it. It would just have to be looked at from a different angle.

What you said about World War II and women being in tri, that's a social context. I'm not sure I'd put a lot of this into. and I think that's something I'll be sitting with and thinking about. That's an interesting perspective.

I took it from the perspective of like, the health focused episodes that we get. So I don't.

Oh, yeah.

Oh yeah, we're going to get Juliet Julia's almost hysterectomy episode. You know, I don't know.

Or Charlene's breast cancer episode.

Exactly. Like, first of all, why are you saying breast? You know, so along talking about like, oh, women, they're fine. Just, you know, just go have a baby but don't talk about it.

Yeah.

You know, so, you know, but from my perspective and the perspective of feminism generally, you know, it believes in equal rights, equal across the board. So I just don't know that that's, I don't know. That's a place that we were really at.

Super possible.

Absolutely. Oh yeah, absolutely.

When talking about like the Anthony plots, you were. Yeah, a little bit about this already. I'm just not sure that you. In going back, Brandon, to what you said, if we're talking about how to. Everything's so mainstream. I don't know. Mainstream culture was ready for that now.

Or, or a woman asking a man out on a date, like they do in several episodes, you know, that. That probably wouldn't be able to be done in the 40s. you know, you know, a woman taking the, the lead and being the dominant one in a romantic relationship. you know, like, we know that Suzanne is a lot. So, So. So yeah, yeah, it would, it would just. It would be different. But I think the, the skeleton of Designing Women could be the same. You would just have to. The, the, the skin that you would have to put on, it would look different.

Sure.

I do think it's worth saying that LBT kind of gave us some insight into what she thought with the, the Fever. The World War II fever dream episode.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, that. Which is actually also another movie reference to Hollywood Canteen.

Yeah.

but, you know, you have Julia. She's the brassy, brazen broad. Charlene is the salt of the earth, good hearted waitress. Mary Jo is the sexy cigarette girl, and Suzanne is the untouchable beauty queen, Ms. War Bonds. Yes. This feels like some 40 tropes to me. But Brandon, I guess you would definitely know better than either of us would.

Yeah, they are. first, I love. Oh my gosh, I love World War II era, movies. yeah, there, there's something about that. But yeah, it's. I don't know necessarily they were references. You would see women like that in movies, but I think, I think a lot more you would see them in real life. The Hollywood Canteen or, you know, different. well, there was a Hollywood Canteen in la, a Hollywood Canteen in New York. you know, just all these different places and, yeah, women taking jobs like, you know, cigarette girls and things like that. But yeah, you would, you would see. I think, I think Julia's kind of being an amalgam of different celebrities who would entertain the troops at that time. and then, you know, buying war bonds was a huge thing. So Suzanne playing, you know, a, pageant queen sponsored by war bonds was true.

So, you know, that there's so many things that they're parodying in that, but, you know, definitely true to life. And, you know, there's so many World War II melodramas that sort of focus on Charlene, you know, being sort of this, bride who's waiting for her, boyfriend or husband to come home and marry him, not knowing if he's going to come back again. And they do a ton of World War II movie references with Charlene because she fantasizes about World War II movies All the time.

All the time. It's her favorite thing to do.

Yeah, I think that is, I think that's playing on something that LBT really like, any kind of interview I've read with her. She seems very romantic in that way.

Yeah.

that, that's like a, like a fantasy genre that really works for her.

Yeah.

so, do we want to talk anything about Southern stereotypes or anything before we wrap up for the day. Anything that you feel like we haven't touched on, Brandon, that strikes you for TV or movies, I mean, we talk.

I mean, the biggest, I think the biggest one that we hit on was the Deliverance stuff. But, you know, I mean, I mean, well, in Designing Women certainly hits on, you know, I think of the Eating Dirt episode or the, you know, there's all papioca. You know, there's all these things that Designing Women always touches on in a very comedic way. But I also think there's more serious, you know, stereotypes that Designing Women likes to address, you know, about how, you know, not everybody in the south is a good old boy who loves nascar. You know, not that there's anything wrong with that, but there's really well read, learned people who love to, you know, who are intellectuals, who like to read books. There's, you know, every kind of person that you would think of in, the South. There's great storytellers in the South. South. So it's just, you know, unfortunately, I think film and television has put under a microscope certain aspects, you know, that unfortunately get, just get overemphasized in our popular culture. And so, you know, hopefully, you know, people have a more well rounded view of the south now than they did even back when Designing Women was on. But, you know, it's. It's always going to be a, struggle. But, you know, thank goodness there are good examples in our media, you know, in the past and right now that can show you differently.

Yeah, I think Nikki and I were talking a little bit offline and, you know, one thing, it does feel like we're getting some different, big players in Hollywood that are in stories about Southerners that are a little bit more varied, whether that's Reese Witherspoon or Tyler Perry or just to remind folks that there are. We contain multitudes.

Yeah, absolutely.

Well, we want to be very kind to your time, and I'm not sure we have been.

Oh, you're fine.

We've certainly taken advantage of it. this has just been absolutely lovely. Thank you so much, Brandon, for joining us.

Real quick, before we, sign off officially, can you or would you like to share with everyone where they can find you when they can expect new episodes? All that kind of stuff.

Yeah. So you can find me Front Row Classics Podcast, wherever you find podcasts either on, you know, Spotify, Apple, Amazon podcasts, wherever, you can find me on Facebook at Front Row Classics Podcast, on Instagram @FRN Classics pod on Twitter @FRN Classics. And, if you have questions or anything or want to suggest anything, my, email is classics frngmail.com. I normally, my normal schedule is releasing things late on a Wednesday night and then it'll show up in people's, feeds, early on a Thursday morning. this last summer and fall, I've had a lot of different, just opportunities and, episodes that have popped up out of nowhere. So a lot of times I'll release two episodes in a week now, just depending on what's going on. So just always be on the lookout for your feeds. But always a new episode on Thursday mornings. but then you might get a surprise earlier or later in the week too. But, yeah, a lot coming up between now and December, you know, over the holidays, we'll be talking about, you know, a lot of film noir in November and a lot of, holiday movies in December. So just be on the lookout.

Well, that sounds cozy.

That sounds delightful.

Speaking of, I think for our holiday season, we're probably going to be going on break. One of us might be moving, so that might have something to do with it. but, we will hopefully be back early next year to start talking about the final season of Designing Women. And my sign off is not as beautiful as Nikki's, who typically takes this. So bear with me. You know the drill. You can DM us, email us, or, contact us from the website. Find us all over the socials. Bye, y'all. bye.